i'm here today for a very important function. i have the honor of introducing edna green medford. dr. medford is the author of lincoln and emancipation. she isto begin by saying receiving an award this afternoon and will be unable to participate in the panel

discussion during the afternoon session. therefore, it is important to get your questions in early because she is going off to receive the women's history award from the northern virginia district of columbia maryland affiliate of the national association of negro business and professional women. [applause] >> i came to know dr. medford through a predecessor of hers at howard, lorraine williams, who wrote a book about -- wrote an article about intellectuals who campaigned for lincoln. among the people she mentioned was my great uncle, general thomas osborne. through searching that out, i got to know dr. mitford -- medford. and she has been a friend and admired person. she is the chair of the department of history at howard university. she teaches 19th century history. she has lectured widely and has

been actively involved in many activities. i have read her book and i strongly urge that all of you do, too. she has brought to the fore the story of those who had the most pressing interest and who worked tirelessly, although largely unrecognized, in achieving emancipation. thee were the slaves, people have the most vital interest. in her book, lincoln and emancipation, fills a gap left in the story of emancipation by bringing to the four the important role so many blacks played in changing the face of our nation and bringing about emancipation. i have been counseled to be

brief. and so with that, i would like to introduce dr. edna green medford. [applause] dr. medford: good morning. thank ali ando ford's theater society for the opportunity to speak with you this morning. i would like to thank you for being here before that massive storm we are supposed to be having this evening. i love weather folks. they sometimes exaggerate what is going to happen. let's hope they are right this time. they are playing it down now unless you live in the mountains or somewhere. in the brief time, nearly two decades for me that i have studied lincoln and emancipation seriously, i have been struck by

how often the enslaved people are placed at the periphery of the story. because they were enslaved, we think they were powerless to contribute anything of significance to the cause of union or their own freedom. with notable exception, there is too little effort to understand their motivations and actions beyond some genel understanding that they did not like slavery. although even that is questioned on the neo-confederate websites that seem to be proliferating these days. but i'm sure none of you in the audience have bothered to go and look at them. my goal in writing "lincoln and emancipation" was to broaden the narrative so to speak, to attempt to restore african americans, especially the enslaved, to their rightful place in the emancipation drama and the war itself.

i wanted to place them beside lincoln to make them perhaps undeclared but not so silent partners in the events that altered the american way of life that had stood for nearly two and a half centuries. i hopei get you said -- you get some sense of their efforts this morning. that social revolution was occurring in the midst of war became obvious to a northern correspondent in his travels through the deep south. as he traversed the countryside, he observed a very peculiar thing. feels abandoned. kitchens empty of cooks. slave quarters shattered and plantation mattress is taking care of household chores themselves. the slaveholders boast their bondsman and women were contented and devoted servants who would never leave their side had been silenced by war's

disturbances. it is singular how totally devoid the negroes of mississippi, louisiana, and every other cotton state are of fealty to the masters, the correspondent wrote. the blacks seem to have compassionate -- a passionate love for liberty and are constantly incurring risks on its behalf that prove their attachment to it most indubitably. this madness affected not only field hands but house servants as well. with a strange ingratitude, they run away at the first weaning themselves at once and forever from the charms of slavery. [laughter] significantly, those observations were recorded in spring of 1863, just weeks after president reagan issued the emancipation reclamation. the report joined many others in confirmation that the proclamation was working just as

lincoln had intended. it emboldened the bondsmen and women, giving them an irresistible reason to chance flight. for many, in the words of one newspaper editor, the proclamation was like a pillar of flame beckoning enslaved men and women to seek freedom. in issuing his emancipating tikrit, lincoln linked his aim of saving the union to the african american question of freedom. it was neither an easy decision nor a hasty one. his position of long-standing was that emancipation should be gradual, compensated, and carried out with the consent of the people. this union and war forced him to abandon this position in favor of the more immediate, military solution. the supportthat won

ingratitude of the slaves and their allies with some reservations. lincoln's concerns about constitutional constraints and public will, especially within the border states, shaped the timing of his actions. since slaves were property protected by constitutional guarantees, he believed neither president nor congress had the authority to touch it where it already existed. but diplomatic considerations, desire to place a session is at a disadvantage, and union military needs motivated him to deal with the issue of slavery sooner rather than later. incurreduietly the--encouraged slaveholding states to pursue gradual abolition believing in so doing they would signal the confederacy they would never join their cause. when no state of veiled itself of the opportunity, even with promises of compensation for their financial loss and assurance they would be assisted

monetarily in the colonization of those freak, lincoln took action under his own authority as commander in chief in a time of rebellion to suppress such activity. it was a huge temple since -- gamble since many white americans and more were not generally inclined towards abolition and in certain circles were bitterly opposed to it. while they resisted the expansion of the institution, they were not prepared for the anticipated disruptions in their own lives that would come from liberated african americans, who it was argued would travel to the north and compete for jobs and demand the rights of other americans. the border states whose sentiment was shaped either own slaveholding interests were even more strident in their objections to emancipation. even in areas where slaveholding was a negligible factor in the

economy, resistance persisted because of the social and political implications of freedom. yet lincoln had eventually calculated military emancipation would do more good than harm for the union cause. in issuing the proclamation, he anticipated those promised freedom would come boldly over from the rebel side to the union. their flight would deprive the confederacy of a powerful labor force and strengthen the position of the union militarily. of course, enslaved people had fled their bondage long before lincoln's decree was even a thought. the war's disruptions offered opportunities for flight heretofore unavailable to them. even as the president pledged non-interference with slavery and his intention to enforce the fugitive slave act of 1850, black men and women assessed or situations and determines their

best course of action. some of those who ran away early in the war joined union forces, sometimes voluntarily and at other times by compulsion as military laborers. their insistence on reaching campsary in the union created serious problems for the army and for an administration determined not to make the war anween wightman -- white men avenue for black freedom. reports of union commanders, frustrated slaveholders, and local officials confirmed it gained momentum after january of 1863. two days after the decree took effect, black slaves in mississippi were in great numbers coming into general grant's line bringing horses and wagons. within one month, they were flying away in every direction. in monroe, virginia, fugitives

from the surrounding countryside and nearby towns had been arriving since union occupation of the area in may of 18 city one. two years later in may of 18 city three, captain charles wilder, superintendent of the contraband noted there are a great number of courageous fellows who have come from long distances in rebeldom, sometimes from up to 200 miles away. those who travel the distance is new about the proclamation and work persuaded -- were persuaded to flee because of it. it was reported 10,000 have come under union control in the fortress monroe area alone. flee earlier efforts to slavery had involved mostly men, the post proclamation freedom seekers were more diverse and in larger units. in certain parts of tennessee, a state exempted from the proclamation, brigadier general william smith reported in march

of 1863 that whole families were stampeding and leaving their masters. their flight caused serious slaveholders petitioned for the return of their laborers. union commanders could do little if anything to address their grievances since by this time it was the policy of the government not to compel the return of fugitives to their owners. many of the fugitives from slavery left families behind but ed to go back to the plantations to retrieve them once they had assurances they would not be as treated or sold to cuba. in certain areas, there was an organized effort devoted to liberation. in mississippi, black men were armed and sent back to their homes as missionaries, an act that could result in the forfeiture of one's life. within days of the issuing of the proclamation, black men in

eastern north carolina who had aligned themselves with union forces had liberated a black family in the town of edenton and touched off a frenzy protest from the local slaveholders. this kind of activity is occurring over and over again throughout the war. maryland presented an even greater problem for local officials tasked with managing the torrent of fugitive slaves from the state. when the war began, fugitives sought sanctuary in the district of columbia, still a sleep holding steady at the time, but whose urban environment allowed them to blend into the population that had expanded significantly because of wartime activities. district emancipation was enacted by congress in the spring of 1862, the city became even more attractive to maryland runaways. planters in the state's southern counties where slavery had maintained its strength even as

the institution declined elsewhere petitioned lincoln to intervene on their behalf with abolitionist commanders who were not inclined to honor the president's's pledge to enforce the fugitive slave act. but when there was no district of columbia to run to, even when there was no district of columbia to run to, enslaved men and women in the border states behaved as if the decree applied to them and often acted accordingly, especially if there was a union military presence nearby. it is difficult to estimate the number of people who actually fled during the war. the general consensus is approximately 500,000 of the total population absconded at some point. most were gathered into contraband camps organized for their release and where they were required to labor. the more substantial camps reedman'sriedman -- f

village and one in mississippi housed thousands of residents and maintained a school, hospital, and church. but many were squalid places that challenged the ability of the contrabands to survive. others were placed on government farms, lands confiscated from secessionists fleeing the union advanced. d under the supervision often of men who had little intention of facilitating the transition from slavery to freedom and were more interested in continuing their exploitation. these were men from the north actually. those who maintained -- who remained at home did so less out of any sense of loyalty than from the degree of difficulty they would experience in attempting to reach union lines

and from uncertainty regarding how they would be received once they got there. this did not mean, however, that they acquiesced to continued explication and abuse from those who claimed ownership of their bodies. many who chose to remain at home supported the union cause in their own way by laboring byrequently or not at all, insolence and insubordination, and a few by marauding through the countryside. northerners shared the fear held by many southerners that violence would erupt with the emancipation of the enslaved. when lincoln issued the preliminary proclamation, demographic -- democratic governor of new york criticized his actions as a bloody, revolutionary, and unconstitutional scheme. his gubernatorial campaign in late 1862 revealed -- appealed

to voters by embracing a platform that consider the proclamation a proposal for the butchery of women and children with scenes of lost -- lust, arson, and murder. similarly in illinois, democrats assailed the proclamation as encouraging a means of warfare, the inhumanity without example and civilized warfare, and which the civilized world will denounce as a disgrace to the american people. and perhaps in the greatest example of hypocrisy known in history, the editor of a "weucky newspaper wrote, scarcely know how to express our indignation at the flagrant outrage of constitutional law or humanjustice -- all

justice or christian feeling to think we who have been the foremost in the grand march of civilization would be so disgraced by an imbecile president as to be made to appear before the world as the encourager of insurrection, lust, arson, and murder." how, indeed. lincoln acknowledged their fears in his instructions to the freed people that they abstain from all violence except in necessary self-defense. for the most part, they followed this directive. but it did not allay the fears of secessionists that retaliation would accompany black freedom. just three weeks into the year of jubilee, alarmed authorities in cold county, virginia, rounded up suspects in an alleged conspiracy to lead a general insurrection of the entire colored population. it seemed the 17 men, most of

whom were free, had in their position when apprehended copies of newspapers in which the proclamation appeared. it was believed that knowledge of the decree had been widespread among black people, and the local citizens were in great fear for their lives because of it. concerned the region was about to experience terror remission revolt,te turner's 1831 the locals quickly executed the alleged conspirators. secessionists were especially suspicious of freed black men who they believed endeavored to poison the minds of the slaves and lead them in revolt, as if the enslaved people could not lead themselves. as white men were constricted into the confederate army and plantations were left without overseers, letters reached local commanders and the central

government that urged the compelling a free black men to fight. this would permit overseers to return to their civilian employment while neutralizing the influence of freed black men over the enslaved. armys even suggested -enslaved laborers as a way to counter the vantage the north had enjoyed since the proclamation. tens of thousands of free black men and slaves were pressed into service as military laborers, teamsters, nurses, builders, etc. a few thousand may have shouldered arms in an unofficial capacity before the confederacy adopted an official policy of recruitment of slaves to help forestall defeat near the end of the war. of course by that time, it was too late. whether there was any real threat of revolt from enslaved laborers and their free allies or conspiracy frenzy that were

the result of the wild imaginations of white men who recognized the enslaved had legitimate grievances against those who would make property of human beings, there were enough instances of proven violence to keep the confederacy climbed. black men emboldened by the absence of white male authority on the plantations exercise freedom of movement and independent thought and expressed long pent up resentments. mississippi residents complained of marauding bands of freed negroes desolating neighborhoods . in one parish of louisiana, black men got possession of horses and mules and bargains and road through the countryside supposedly threatening local lights. in other disobedience to the authority of their owners, slaves in tennessee plantations

to work for themselves and returned at night to finally asserting their right to do it. enter von parish, louisiana, locals complained, to union general nathaniel banks that goinglabors quit work, come when they see fit, and write off at night with mules that had been at work all day. fences were pulled down, gates left open, and livestock killed or carried off and sold. ofortedly, large numbers slave laborers traveled from one plantation to another at all hours night and day where they gathered in large numbers on plantations deserted by fleeing confederates. in a word one exasperated observer reported, we are in a state of anarchy. the presence of the union soldiers occasionally afforded black men and women who had spent their lives under the lash

the opportunity to find justice from past misdeeds and ill-treatment on the part of their owners. to his misfortune, virginia secessionists william clarkin became a central character in one of these incidents. the elderly planter and family friend of the deceased former president, john tyler, was well known for his cruelty to his enslaved laborers and for his secessionist activities as well. he fell into the hands of general wild and his african brigade, the unit consisting largely of recruits drawn from southern virginia and north carolina. southern virginia is where clarkin lived. as fate would have it, several of his former laborers found sanctuary with wild's soldiers. the sympathetic general allowed three of the women and a man

whose backs for the scars from lashes administered by the planter to dispense what wild called political justice. george hatton who witnessed the events did not miss the irony of the former slaves of bending the master -- upending the master-slave relationship. the days are clear, the fields of grain are beautiful, and the birds are singing sweet songs, he wrote, while he is crying to servants for mercy. julia gardiner tyler, john tyler's widow, was so outraged by the incident that she wrote to president ligon in protest. general wild was later court-martialed and convicted for his role in the incident, but the ruling was eventually overturned. if such examples of changing racial relations concerned them, confederates became rose at the

site of black men like those in wild's african regained wearing the union blue. lincoln's proclamation called for the use of black men to andison forts and positions to manned vessels of all sorts in service to the union. black men had been recruited for military service earlier, but the president's authorization hastened the effort to bring them officially into the federal forces. for confederates, it was incontrovertible proof of lincoln's disregard for their rights and lives. freeman pressed the president and congress to be allowed to into the fight from its beginning. believing valor on the battlefield would earn them the freedom and rights that have not come to black people by virtue of their birth. they had even offered to provision units of volunteers at their own expense. but like many white americans of the day, lincoln initially

doubted the fighting resolve and ability of black men. it is really strange because black men have fought in all of america's wars and have done so courageously. so why this resistance? we certainly know why. it had nothing to do with the black man's ability. when pressed by chicago on armingleaders black men, he expressed his fear that in a few weeks, the arms would be in the hands of the rebels. his reluctance also reflected concern northerners were not prepared for such a radical policy and that the border states especially might withdraw their allegiance to the union. just as war altered his views of emancipation, the changed his perspective on the use of black soldiers as well. 1863, there were approximately 100,000 strong. by the end of the war, at least 186,000 had shouldered arms for

the union, comprising 10% of the union army's strength. thousands more served in the navy from the beginning of the war, so there was no resistance to them being used in the navy. but there rank was at the level of "boy." that did not seem to offend anyone. lincoln had come to believe black soldiers were crucial to winning the war and saving the unit was evident in a letter he wrote to general grant after the vicksburg campaign. mostding to general thomas' recent effort to raise troops in the mississippi valley, lincoln encouraged grant to do the same. it --eve, he wrote, meaning black soldiers -- is a resource if vigorously applied now will soon close this contest. while friends and adversaries criticized his emancipation

policies, when they criticized his emancipation policies, lincoln pointed to the indispensable services these black men rendered in defense of the union. on one of those occasions, he penned a letter to his good friend james conklin which he attended to be read in the assemblage of fellow republicans in springfield. some of the men who would hear his letter suggested the proclamation was a mistake and should be rescinded. lincoln assured his critics his policies as concerned the black population had been in the interest of preserving the union. some of the commanders of our armies in the field who have given us our most important successes believe the emancipation proclamation and use of the colored troops constitute the heaviest blow yet dealt to the rebellion, he wrote. and at least one of these important successes could not have been achieved when it was

but for the aid of black soldiers. black men were holding up their end of the deal, and the promise of freedom having been made must be kept. calmat was not enough to their criticism, lincoln added that one piece returned there will be some black men who can remember that with silent tongue and clinched teeth and steady eyes and well poised bayonets, they have helped mankind onto this great consummation. while i fear there will be some white ones and able to forget that with malignant heart and deceitful speech they have strove to hinder it. in a drafted response a year later to criticism leveled by charles robinson, a wisconsin war democrat, lincoln reiterated the necessity for continued

support from black soldiers, suggesting that to betray the promise of freedom would ruin the union cause itself. in lincoln's estimation, all recording of colored men would instantly cease. and all colored men now in our service would instantly desert us. without the assistance of black soldiers and laborers, the union could no longer maintain the contest. although recruitment had centered on the southern states where it emancipation had been proclaimed and in the north, the border states eventually felt the effects of the new policy as well. although in slave were required to get permission from their owners, recruitment officers routinely ignored this and eventually enlistment was thrown open to all. since the wives, children, and mothers of these soldiers were freed by an act of congress, the

policy you wrote it slavery in those states where recruitment was most intense. lincoln and white and northerners and southerners had no illusion about why black men were willing and eager to fight. negroes act on motive, he told conklin, and indeed they did. formerly enslaved men went to war to steer freedom. their freed counterparts did so to secure rights. their patriotism was shaped by the expectation that when the war was over they would share not just in the union victory but the advantages of a freed america. maney, a member of the virginia 20th volunteers, spoke for the men when he tried to explain to his frightened wife refused to why he use his recent illness to escape the war. do you know or think what the end of this work is to decide?

if our government succeeds, our race will be free. when slavery passes away, the prejudices that belong to it must follow. slaveholders are my enemies. the flag i was born under has have suffered so much under, they tore that flag from its staff and in its place put the rebel rag and swore by it that freedom should die. but they shall find it cannot die. it's black sons and loyal white sense are faithful and will shed the last drop of blood in defense of the starry banner that is to be the emblem of edna: if he should die in this not let me, he will rest on the battlefield with my face to the slaveholders. a continual reproach and curse

unto him as long as the world shall stand. remained loyal to the union at the hands of -- even if they had been born free. they had been assured by some other recruiters that they would be treated equally in respect to pay, equipment, bounty, or aid and protection. they were the soldiers of the union, nothing less and nothing different. thathey soon discovered the racial antagonism that permeated the north would follow them into military service. lincolnk douglas visit at the white house in august 1863 to discuss the disparate

treatment that black men received. lincoln council patients an understanding of the sensitivity of the border states and many northerners of the use of black soldiers. the men affected courageously board their objections to such in justin sees -- in such injustices and petition lincoln. enlistment had permitted them to be men. they had no intention of accepting an inferior status from the government. rather than accept an equal pay, some units chose to accept no. hazard.this was a real

from their soldier husbands. provided ammunition to those back home. the black men who were endangering their lives, it was argued header of the right that equal to fair and treatment, but purchased with their lives, the life of every black woman, man, and child to be treated like any other citizen. the folks at home pressed for voting rights, equal access to public accommodations and services for their children. suggested touietly the governor that the state, then undergoing reconstruction,

might want to consider granting the vote to let veterans and others seeking politically quality. shortly before he was assassinated, he was going to speak openly about political rights, at least for the minarets of the union well and for those who he deemed prepared to take on responsibilities of citizenship. his growth in such a short period of time was remarkable. african americans have grown as well. ,heir experiences as soldiers as the nation's or's, and liberators of their people, crushing slavery from within had confirmed their value not in a slaveholders plantation journal,

but as americans who had earned the right to be thought of as such. by the end of the war, they had championed a definition of freedom that reflected their expectations and their understanding of what they had done for the nation. both the president and the enslaved had acted on self interests, more with lincoln, of course, it is a national interest. of course, with the enslaved, to secure the freedom. because they were able to find common cause, those interests theded and i will end with last statement in the introduction of my book, together they achieved the liberty that american adhere to force a champion. thank you. [applause]

i think we have a few minutes for questions. >> i was fascinated about what you said early on about how many of the slave owners that their slaves were happy. how widespread was that delusion? there was a fugitive slave law. they must have known that slaves wanted to get out, or whether individuals that thought they were good slave masters? was a systematic? aremedford: when you denying people human rights, you have to justify some way. you have to convince yourself that you are doing them a favor. the 1830's,, before the 1830's, you have slaves --

slaveholders saying that we need the laborers. 1830's went abolitionism was becoming more militant, yet slaveholders saying slavery is a positive good. has this onsociety which to build. so african-americans provide that foundation. but these people are talking couldin kentucky how lincoln do this? we are the most civilized people in the world and how could he do this to the people? , but totally ridiculous they really believed that stuff. certainly the understood that there were some enslaved people who would have taken any opportunity to actually free themselves and do damage to themselves. survive inable to that kind of environment, to be

able to sleep at night, they had to convince themselves that they were folks who loved them daily. -- who loved them dearly. there were some people who did not be because they were afraid to leave. they had never known anything but slavery and they were natural how they would make it. if you look at the slave records,s, plantar's you will see how frequently people are fleeing. if some areas of the country where everybody on the plantation leaves. it is not just the people out in the field. it is the folks in the houses, the people who are the tradesmen, the blacksmiths come the carpenters, every group of enslaved people are running away. is not justery about exploitation of labor. that is bad enough. it is about denying people the right to protect their families, having the possibility that your

wife is going to be sold away, your children are going to be sold away, your daughter is going to be raped, you are going to be beaten to death, that is what slavery meant in america. it wasn't just exploitation, it was much more than that. it was a means of social control. one of the reasons why you see what you see a the end of the war when people are supposedly freed, you have the black coats implemented. there are various concerns that these people still want to control the black population in the way they think they need to be controlled. >> i have always had the that theof the fact emancipation proclamation freed the slaves in the confederacy by virtue of him being commander in chief. it was an assigned into the memo

to the constitution that the ones in the union in the north were freed. it seems to me there was a period of time where slavery was still legal in the northern states. i never heard anyone talk about transpiredm and what because of that dichotomy. dr. medford: that is my next book. i am actually writing that now. [laughter] by that as well, certainly in the border states. they don't get their freedom until the 13th amendment, or if the state has actually declared freedom. 1865,missouri, in missouri freeze its enslaved population. freed its- missouri enslaved population. kentucky does not. said, kentucky was

a problem, yes, they definitely were. kentucky would not do it. in fact, kentucky did not actually ratify the 13th amendment until 1976, i believe. it was ridiculous. free itsdoes not enslaved laborers, although there are so few there. when lincoln asked them to be the test case for emancipation of the border states, delaware says no although they had fewer than 1800 enslaved people. by the war, they had 900 left. they are not free anybody. they are waiting till the 13th amendment. what we don't ever talk about is the 13th after amendment, there were people still enslaved. they are in indian territory. there are native american tribes

in that territory that have not freed their slave laborers and they do it as a consequence, a treaty with the united states. the one time that treaties worked for somebody other than the government. [laughter] -- what is going on during the war is, even in kentucky, there are people getting their freedom because they are joining the army. those men are freed and their wives and children and mothers are freed as well. slavery is the story throughout the south before the 13th amendment was ratified. what the 13th amendment does is, it just doesn't into slavery in those other areas, it forbids slavery to be reestablished and that was very important. with the emancipation proclamation, there was no guarantee that after the war, the south when a try to

reestablish the institution. the 13th amendment was critical as well. >> good morning. i wonder how you handle the dilemma of the statue. the one is called emancipation on lincoln park. --coln stands over a shackle meals at his feet. ls at his feet. it was paid for the freed black itizens up washington d.c. that does not fit the narrative you are describing. was that unknown to them? dr. medford: it was interesting. when frederick douglass bought the memorial, he said it was not befitting of the role black people play. it would have been better if the enslaved man, the black man depicted had been standing

beside lincoln. i agree with that totally. what it does is it reinforces the great emancipator image. that lincoln did it alone. with a stroke of his pen, he ended slavery and freed every slave in america and that is not what happened. there were many people who work midwives at the birth of black freedom. lincoln was central to that birth, but african-americans were there as well as were abolitionists as were many other groups of people. that the bulk of the money came from a formally from blackople veterans as well. i don't think all of the good, but the bulk of it did. the first person though who supposedly gave the first five dollars was a woman named

charlotte scott who actually had not been freed by the emancipation proclamation, but freed by her owner before the proclamation was issued. her owner was being pressured by his abolitionist neighbors. he freed her. he went with her to ohio. i always wondered why she did that. but she was a 61-year-old who spent her whole life in slavery she hadbly felt connections to these people, were elsewhere she going to go? but it is problematic. it has always been problematic, even from the very beginning. they did not decide, african-americans did not decide what the design was going to be. kneeling,h he is not richard brown has a larger role. dr. medford: right.

americans want to believe at one time that african-americans were passive in the own liberation and that was not the case. ladies and gentlemen, i apologize, we have to end the session right now. dr. medford will be out in the >> i am a history buff. i do enjoy seeing the fabric of our country and how things -- how they work and how they are made. >> i love american history tv. >> i had no idea they did history. that's probably something i would really enjoy. >> with american history tv, it gives you that perspective. >> i may c-span