watching american history tv, all weekend, every weekend on c-span3. >> a historian talks about robert e. lee's tries to virginia and the various military campaigns throughout the state. during the question and answer period, it discusses his role in the centennial and sesquicentennial anniversaries of the civil war. talk wasinute sponsored by the shenandoah valley battlefields foundation. >> it's always nice to be the

keynote speaker. you can speak in a disjointed way. i'm going to do a disjointed speaker speech for you this morning, if i may. let's start with a couple of reflections on the confederate title flag. if politically correct people were capable of understanding history, they would complain not cross.he southern emblem of a government, with slavery as is backbone. the bottle flag is different in another sense. was -- not thee brigade, not the division. he served with friends and neighbors from the same area.

what did the second, fourth, fifth, 27th and 33rd virginia have in common? southerncame from the part of shenandoah valley. these units gained immortality as part of the stonewall brigade. in all during the war, 6000 men would serve in the stonewall brigade and at appomattox, 210 were left, none above the rank of captain. every regiment went off with a flag. nationalwas not a banner. those flags borne by the 18th virginia, 26 new york, fifth alabama -- were insignia of state allegiance and state esteem. i think state pride, state

existence has to be a player here. people were actually surprised this can drive sometimes reasonable folks to the point of reaction. that explains the reaction to the confederate flag. folks don't understand its meaning. the biggest mistake made by those today who want to interpret history is that they view the past with the lens of the present. you cannot do that. to truly understand it events of yesteryear, likewise one to look .hrough those blinders i'm an agreeable guy, but what gets against me is what people say, generally had not done that

at gettysburg, things would have been different. if lee had had 150 years to think about it differently, he would have done something different. that is grossly unfair to lee and others to assume that you know better than they did. understand how the south could take on this. the power concentrated in washington was solution or a it came from time and circumstance in the civil war was the big hop for the federal government. had you lived in 1860, the federal government would have directed your life one way. it delivered your mail. that is the only contact you had

with the federal government. you paid taxes. you settled your disputes in state and local courts. we had no familiar flag. the average american had never seen the american flag. we had no national motto. anthem heardional there was nothing nationalistic about this country at all, especially the 16,000 men in the united states army. nationalization starts with appomattox and has not stopped since. of theg of the outbreak war, i'd like to make a comment about these anguished decisions about which way to go. in april 1861, when he turned down every soldier's dream, supreme commander of the army, in order to go with his native state. we virginians took -- talk all the time about our history.

we do so because we have so much more of it than anybody else. 1787, when a nation was proposed, virginia was already 180 years old. we celebrated colonial thanksgiving. people inse massachusetts would get off that cake. in 1860, the united states was 70 years old. it was not old enough to have wisdom. at least family that time had been living in virginia 225 years. i do not think lee anguished at all over the decision he made that april evening. the three words that characterize lee's entire life -- devotion to duty.

his primary duty was to his family. his family had been virginians for over two centuries. the old dominion was lee's birthright. in graduate school, i learned that antietam was the turning point of the civil war. the gettysburg chamber of commerce never ceases its claim. facts and reflection say otherwise. on for 18d been going months when the bloodiest one-day battle occurred at sharpsburg. thereafter, to an a half years of combat would follow. that hardly signifies a turning point to me. gettysburg came in 1863.

they make good magazine articles. jefferson davis maintained from the beginning hostilities that the south should wage what he called an offense of/defensive strategy. confederates would defend their homeland using inner lines of communication. ,hen an opportunity came southern armies would counterattack. davis reasoned that in a war, three things will happen. side b will win, side a will up, or the war ends unresolved. side a is the south, it could win. what about if the war ends up in a tie? nobody has won strategic hold over the battlefield.

has not one side won? stilluth won because it exists. as long as the confederate flag is flying in the breeze, the south is winning. this is what davis thought the war should do. oflizing the advantages defense, the south would curl back the attack. it would make an assault when the situation was promising. mountl losses would slowly. federal morality slip away. the north would ask for peace. the confederacy would have its independence. that is not something unique. the first part of that 1-2-3-4 scale, we side in vietnam. we hit them with everything we had in our arsenal, and they would not quit. stopping the war

because the will to continue just slipped away. camengly, that scenario terribly close to success when in the spring of 1864, the south came as close as it would come. despite two failures and northern invasions -- confederate victory was quite possible if the southern and comecould hold off sherman in georgia. throughout may and june, men fought and blood flowed. southerners sherman engaged in an 80 mile campaign. cautious of rather found the union army in front of atlanta and seemingly content to

stay there, while the southern army underwent a change in leadership. union efforts in virginia were more complicated and far more bloody. but for a time, the end result seem just as empty. were driven in flight from the shenandoah valley, thereby leaving pressure on that vital legion. the widely heralded grants was soundly defeated in the wilderness, beaten back in spotsylvania, and almost massacred at cold harbor. krentz managed to slip across the chains and pulled up from the eastern outskirts of petersburg. grant's 100 mile overland campaign contained the most vicious fighting in the war. the once powerful army of the

potomac stuck with 65,000 losses in six weeks. northern morality limited. democrats were announcing grant .s a bullheaded butcher they declared, patriotism is played out. we are gone. another union official proclaimed, each hour is sinking us deeper into bankruptcy and desolation. atlanta stood defiant. grant was no closer this summer than george mcclellan had been two years earlier. while northern republicans made excuses, northern democrats again searching for an 1864 presidential candidates. in midsummer, president lincoln admitted publicly that he expended -- expected to lose. offensen davis's

of-defense of strategy was working. the union army was held back at every corner. if the two southern armies could hold their own until the november elections, northern public opinion would and the civil war and the confederate dream would be accomplished. high water mark of the war. , the timethree months it took for northern military might to effect a complete turnaround. headlinesot the first . a change of commanders in the confederate army in atlanta proved disastrous. soundly defeated in each engagements. grant, put a stranglehold on leave.

grant kept widening the length of his lines. 'sis in turn stretched lee smaller defenses. grant'sortantly, strategy took away from the only effective weapon the southern journal had, mobility. as long as lee could maneuver, if he could get in positions he could use his forces to his advantage. for the next nine months, grant was quite content to let his associates handle the siege. hunger,sociates being filth, disease, exposure to the bombardment,stant fatigue, loss of spirit, increased desertions. all of these slowly suffocating the army of northern virginia.

grant could never feel secure until confederates were deprived of all use of the shenandoah valley. there had always been a geographic avenue pointing straight at the heart of the north. in addition, the valley was immensely fertile. fruitsuced grain, meat, that by 1864 were essential to lee's army. grant picked his most ruthless lieutenant to clean out the valley. grant wanted the shenandoah so thoroughly destroyed that he said not a crow -- that a crow flying across it would have to take his own food to survive the trip. sherman's march to the sea has long been overshadowed by the devastation of the shenandoah valley. sherman did isat

still called the burning. he destroyed a good portion of the valley. on november 8, abraham lincoln won the election. the confederacy's great hope in the spring had vanished. sherman started towards the sea and gutted the southern nation. grant tightened the news at petersburg. at petersburg, cutting off the confederacy from the outside world. and thereafter, it was going to just a matter of time. are the worst of struggles, because no matter on which side you are fighting, the enemy is your fellow countrymen. destruction you inflict is destruction of your own country. those on the two sides are fighting for absolutes. the war is not going to end until one side is crushed.

the atmosphere at celinda is usually filled with vindictiveness and subjugation. that is the natural course of a civil war. such was not to be the case at appomattox. overthrew million men had -- over three million men had borne arms in the civil war. someway they would bring this country back together again. so much has been written about what lee and grant did that palm sunday at appomattox. i think a greater understanding might be gained looking at what they did not do that chilly day of 57 degrees. lee could have followed the natural course after the civil

war. one of his most reliable associates suggested it. lee earlierme to that palm sunday morning. tell the army to disperse. love them men scatter into the hills and woods sides. men scatter into the hills and woods sides. we can win, alexander said. we can win, if we don't lose. lee shook his head. that was not his idea of the future. we must consider the country as a whole, he said. the menk your advice, would be without rations and under no control at all. they would become bands of marauders. we would bring on a state of affairs that would take the country years to recover from. no, lee concluded, i must go to

general grant and surrender myself and take the consequences of my acts. grant also had to show us at appomattox he had done what no other general had been able to do for 3 years. broughtt lost -- last the legendary silver fox to bait. grant could easily charge and with treason, humiliate him publicly, poor -- force him to casualtiesly for the he had inflicted over the years. grant could have sent all the confederates to prison and some to the gallows. the shadowed south was helpless in stopping any of these probabilities. grant himself had known personal defeat for a good part of his life. he could empathize with how lee felt. unlikely, grant had a

sense of history. and the judgments that come of the future. they tell a story that is not true. a much earlier president lincoln had visited grant at the city foreign headquarters. had conferred on the climactic campaign about to get underway. as lincoln walked up, they lined up, taking him back to washington. standingposedly onshore, munching a cigar, asked the president, what do you want me to do when i catch him? lincoln answered, let him up easy. and that sam grant did. lee was visibly surprised at the leniency of grant's terms of surrender. even today, they seem unbelievable in the face of so much killing and so much destruction. south would remain -- retain their amounts for the spring plowing.

25,000 rations would be issued at wants to lee's starving army. southern soldiers would sign paroles and go home. long as they did not break the law, they were not to be molested by any union authorities for any reason. a grateful lee could only state that this will do much towards the reconciliation of our people. wanted a badgrant war to be followed by a good peace. lee's decision to cease fighting from guerrillaon warfare that would have forever shattered any dreams of union. grant's generous offer made it difficult to hang lee and other southerners in postwar retribution. in that springtime afternoon, two notable soldiers served.

april 9, 1965, the word appomattox had no meaning. you belong to a virginia river and county. after that sunday, appomattox would be a great word that announced a moment when sunset and sunrise came together. it took a long time in virginia as well as in georgia for the end. war to reconciliation, like a beautiful work of art, requires time and understanding and much personal effort. in the half-century after the passing of the war, former enemies found themselves linked. engaging men of blue and gray began together for the unionists on the fields of battle. they found themselves no longer enemy soldiers. survivors of a

terrible time. they shared the same sympathies for the younger man they once were, and for the sacrifices that each had made. those are member and sis offered the least controversial grounds upon which they could relate. thousands began to realize that they had not been enemies at all. they had been brothers in suffering. was theual respect gateway to a lasting peace in our nation. the never apologized for what they had done. the yanks never asked him to do so. human commonality drove them together, which is almost blessed. they were living reminders of the greatest test to nationhood.

the civil war, i would suggest, really ended july third, 1915. 2500 veterans gathered at gettysburg to mark the 50th ,nniversary of the great battle and the emotional peak in that multi-day reunion came on july 3 at 3:00 p.m. northern and southern veterans stood on opposite sides of the stonewall that had been the focal point of the charge. some reached out and hug. at whattood and wept had been, and what was taking place, because they had survived so many thousands of their comrades had not. we say they are all gone now. that is not so.

the past is forever speaking to us, and it speaks with many voices. those civil war generations went through an indescribable trial to carve a pathway for the future. you and i are that future. our nation began in 1865. to forget that is to make us undeserving of what we share with god'sow, and blessings for all time to come. thank you. [applause] >> when you do have a question, please wait until they can get microphone the boom so your audio can be recorded.

>> when porter alexander was telling lee they should take the hills and play guerrilla war, his response was, wouldn't that be good for the country? was he talking about the whole country meaning like the combined south and north? you think he's thinking pretty much the southern region. james: he was talking about the whole country. lee had been greatly misunderstood. i would assert strongly that between 1865 and 1870, no american work harder towards

reconciliation then robert e. lee. he to go over the presidential position of a small college. why he would want to get involved in social education in the south can only be answered devotion to words, duty. he said at the beginning of his presidency, i have led the young men of the south in battle. i have seen many of them fall at my feet. i have an obligation to lead those left into a new nation, and into peace. he worked hard at that. of whate a living model to do, and what not to do. lee was not an educator, he was a soldier. let me tell you a couple of things he gave to high education. for the first time, we have elective courses in high education. it was lee who established the honor system at the university.

when asked what the rules of the lee responded only that a man be a christian and a gentleman. he would not attend the unions. he would not go to the memorial services, not even a dedication of a monument. he would have nothing to do with the war. it was over. did such a marvelous job that in 1860 eight the nation's largest newspaper, the "new york tribune," nominated lee for president of the united states. had lee been elected, he could not serve. he was not a citizen of america. yet in three years, this man who had led the confederate army was a presidential nominee. at his death in 1870, an entire nation mourned.

a gallant foreman in the fight, a brother when the fight was done. virginia's son. beautiful tribute. after the an american war, and he worked tirelessly for it. it pries my patients to hear people trying to pull him down. he should be an inspiration. we are not supposed to have inspirations today. we are all supposed to dwell on the same level of mediocrity. going to the back. >> i grew up in virginia during

the centennial as a little boy. the sesquicentennial got a lot of criticism of low attendance, this and that, all kinds of stuff. we want to tons of events and had just an outstanding event, something in atlanta was occurring every day, every night, every weekend. what were your thoughts at the sesquicentennial? i thought it was unbelievable compared to the 100th. james: it did not get the national attention the centennial did. had -- it was a nationwide thing. americans were in the mood for it. you come up on an anniversary and everyone should be involved. for one thing, we were not at war. 1957,ggest thing going in

the construction of the interstate highway system, which in itself was a growing cohesive thing. everybody was in the mood for it. the problem was, it got off on the wrong start. the root -- the director said, the south may have won the war, but winning the centennial, that's not the kind of anniversary it was meant to be at all. historians american came on and he was a close friend of kennedy. allen took over as chairman. the vice-chairman of the commission was from a congressman from the first district of iowa.

i had some cause of potential. in all that chaos, i was append -- appointed. i had to spend the first 6 months traveling around the country. nobody was speaking to anybody. we got it straightened out. i think we had a very successful centennial. the sesquicentennial, you've got age against you. the centennial, a lot of grandsons and great grandsons were alive. u.s. grant the third, the son of 50 yearsrant -- now, later, you have in essence 2 generations had passed and war is more distant. life is more complex today than it was then. werein the 1950's, we

comparatively speaking, simple people. now we are so complex. it's hard to concentrate on anything for long in this country. had theirginia, we blessing on the fact that the two most powerful political leaders in the state were ardent civil war buffs. chair and vice chair successively of the commission. we found we had gotten all kinds of money. , and timeof thing doesn't permit me to express them. we ended up at the new sesquicentennial by getting a new state song. we went 18 years -- i thought we ought to have a state song.

it. said, you do i steamrolled the thing through. i insisted from the beginning -- it was going to be virginia's most famous folk song. some circumstances, i met one of the great lyricists of my day. he got interested in it. he wrote lyrics for it. if you want to hear it, just google it up, "how great virginia." you can pull it up on youtube. getting it through the legislature is something i will never do again. truly learn the meaning of two-faced people. some of the strongest backers i

had would get a letter from the constituent saying, i had written a great song. mey were forced to leave standing empty handed. i'm delighted to say it past the house, 82-15. all 15 were democrats. it passed the senate 37-1. was defeatedenter in the spring primary. i love that. the governor had a big to-do. i'm the father of that state song. the one hand, we are further removed from the war. on the other hand, virginia is always aware of its history.

we designed and produced it for school teachers. it is three hours long, but it segments,9 20 minute and design for the classroom. if you are a teacher, you will agree with me. the ideal class is to talk 20, show 20, and rev up in 10. we put the civil war in nine categories. slavery, causes, battles, leaders, the home front, etc. cost us $400,000, but it's a beautiful film. problem with it is, we sent 3000 copies free of charge into every school in the commonwealth of virginia. every school in virginia has it. people keep stealing it great the commission is just constantly replacing dvd's. i hope that answers your

question. it was two different atmospheres. today is hard for americans to concentrate much on anything. >> this is a what if. healthhad been in better and survived another 10 years, in terms of the reconciliation process you described, what you think his affect would have been on, for instance specifically the enforcement of the 14th and 15th amendments and the former seceded states? think he wouldo have continued to go -- everything was going for him. the moment in washington -- enrollment in college had tripled. the educational thing was going strong.

people agree with him. lee would not do his memoirs because they thought it was discourteous to these men who had fought and died for him to capitalize on that. he just completely divorced himself from the war. would have nothing to do with these activities, which in a sense is a blessing because all these battlefields would have no memorials. i think his willingness to forgive and forget is good. there's no question that lee was not happy in those years, particularly 1867, when we know he got angry with the passage of the military reconstruction act, march 1867. lee stated publicly, this is a gross violation of the surrender between general grant and myself. all confederate soldiers would

go home. unless they broke the law, they were not to be molested. this is one of the major criticisms i will make of grant. grant was a wonderful general, a lousy president. assat and did nothing, reconstruction unfolded. disappointed, and grants in difference to it all. the fact that troops came marching in. , there's nothing we can do about it but make it worse. grit your teeth, let's plow through it. i think if lee had continued to live and reconstruction had run its course, i think he would be remembered even more for what he did.

lee in virginia, whose roots go down 250 years, and to history cannot holdsaid, i my sword against my family, my state, my birthright, he's talking about her junior -- virginia, in the face of a nation that was nearly 70 years old. >> doc ribertson, -- robertson, i like to ask a what if question. give us your best answer what you really think would have happened if lee would have got away from grant at appomattox, and would have went south. where would it have gone to from

then, and where would the appomattox have been? james: i get answer that. i don't get involved in the what-if's. out,the jackson book came everybody wanted to know. what would it have been like if jackson had been at gettysburg? i will tell you why you can't answer those questions. you are putting jackson down in july 1863. you can't. you have to go back to lee's invasion of the north, and jackson is in demand. his troops are marching 30 miles a day. jackson has the lead. he would've passed through merlin before -- before joe hooker had his second drink of the day. jack would have kept that momentum going, there would have been no battle at gettysburg. this is why you just can't get involved in the what if school. you have to stay with the facts.

here.ady up lee wouldread that have stayed with the north and the military. he asked if he could be in the non-combative position, and he was refused. therefore, he made the decision he did. is there any truth to that? james: i don't think that is, unless you go back to a conversation he had with winfield scott when virginia's secession was pending. he met with scott, who looked on lee as a son. they had a discussion about options available to what lee might do. that might have come up. there are different versions of

what was said and what was not said, really. had to smile when you were asking that. i remember being on the set when they show the first scene. they are turning down the offer of command. bobby did that so realistically. of meetinge pleasure many actors. i have never met one more intense than rupert -- robert duvall. i tell you the thing about him that is so impressive. when he asks you a question, you have 100% of his attention when you answer. he is staring right through your eyes. the world could be collapsing around you, it doesn't make a difference. he listens to you.

he's gone all the way from playing a deaf-mute in "to kill all these movies -- how do you do it? he said, i'm schizophrenic. [laughter] i think that there may be truth to that. it was just wonderful to work with the real professional actors. stephen lang deserves the academy award for playing jackson. the other actors were justice good. -- just as good. again, the joy of working on that set was to work with real actors who are not egomaniacs,

as you might think. it was a joy to be of assistance to them. duvall had long went into play. me that he wasd trying to get duvall. at 9:50 my phone rang. at 9:50 i'm thinking bed. hello? this is robert duvall. and i'm st. peter. who are you? that's how we met, over the phone. we met secretly and had dinner together in lexington. i jumped immediately. he said, i always wanted to play lee and i want you to help me play lee. i was on the set for just about every scene that he filmed as lee. there's a scene in the movie to show the emotions of when lee

gets word. prayed something like, i last night as i've never prayed before. duvallplain leaves, and turns back. maxwell said, cut. duvall was crying. he had just gotten so much involved. that impresses me. that's what we hope to do in this movie that is being contemplated of lee and jackson. 25, i think that's the date that lincoln arrives at city point. lincoln is arriving to talk to grant. lee is planning a desperate attack. probably end up on april 14. grant comes back to his room in washington. the president wants us to go to a play tonight. made other plans.

i will get back in touch with you. got to have good music. anything else? all right, thank you so much. [applause] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016] >> i am a history buff. i enjoy seeing how things work and how they are made. >> i love american history tv. >> that's something i really enjoy. tv, it american history gives you that perspective. >> on the c-span cam. the nexthe course of

five weeks, we are marking the 40th anniversary of the 1976 release of the church committee's final report on government intelligence activities. here is a preview from this weekend's program with cia director william colby, under questioning by the committee. does this -- >> yes, it does. the rest of it is what is practically a normal .45. it works by electricity. there's a battery in the handle. >> when it fires, it fires silently? >> almost silently, yes. >> what range does it have? meters, i believe. about 100 yards, 100 meters. itself, when it

does thehe target, target know he has been hit? that depends on the particular dart. a special one was developed which potentially would be able to enter the target without perception. is it true that -- would also not appear in the autopsy? >> there was no way of perceiving that the target was hit. >> in a murder incident, that is about as efficient as you can get. >> it is a weapon, a very serious weapon. record seems to disclose an additional concession, namely the lack of accountability. so that we not only have a

secret agency, but we have an agency about which there is some question as to its accountability to the authority of the president or the authority of the national security council. >> watch more of the church committee's investigation into government intelligence activities tonight at 10:00 p.m. and sunday at 4:00 p.m. eastern here on american history tv on c-span3. tv,ext on american history and author talks about his book, "washington's a morals, the untold story of an elite on aent," which focuses group of maryland troops which fought with george washington during the revolutionary war. the soldiers played a key role in several of the stuff -- war's most important battles. the heritage foundation hosted this hour-long event.