credituality of the american public? >> no. i think all four people assert the absolute innocence of their behavior. i don't know that anyone is speculating about any relationship between mr. broadhurst and the woman he was hiring, but there was none and to my knowledge, is none. i think the focus came to me for offers reasons. the point being that it is possible for modern times, whether people are 50, 60, 70, or 20 or 25, spend time together and not be intimately involved. this society is changing. let me -- well i'll answer your question with another question. i am not -- person. i make mistakes. i said i was going to. and i z. i might make some more. i won't make this one. i'm a human being. believe me, if my intent was to have a relationship with a woman, particularly a very

attractive woman, i certainly wouldn't have gone about it this way. >> what would you have done? how could it have been different than to spend this time alone with this woman in this house on weekend where your wife is out of town. >> at my house in washington, which everybody knows where it is. coming in and out of the front door. >> senator hart, there is a restaurant in the city of bar harbor now that is saying that you signed the guest book on the evening of february 12th, that you were part of a party of four people in that restaurant at that time, won of whom was donna rice and the photo has been identified by employees of the restaurant. >> i was -- it's all true up to that point. i don't remember the name of the restaurant. it was across from the hotel where the labor conference was being held. i did not see ms. rice between what was i guess new year's or the day after new years and the

day she came on the boat where mr. broadhurst and i were in march. absolutely do not. >> who was in the booth with you that night? >> well, there were more than four people. and my recollection is that they were people with the convention. i had had dinner with about 40 or 50 labor leaders in that complex. it was right across the hotel. i can't remember the name of the hotel. we'll get it for you. it was a large shopping complex. after dinner a group of about -- my recollection was six or seven -- i'll try to find the names for you. >> sharon bar hart -- >> sharon bar hard, yes. >> there is a new poll out that's going to be released at 6:00 by the boston herald to the new hampshire democratic voters. one week ago in that poll you were leading governor dukakis, tied with him, 32-32%. you have dropped today to 17%. he is holding at 27% with 74% of those surveyed saying they think

this whole issue will have a very negative impact on your candidacy. will you respond to that, please. >> i think that's true, but i think the impact will be short-term. >> senator, following up on that question, one of the reasons people have difficulty believing your story is the question of the phone calls to somebody who you say is a casual acquaintance. yet you talk to her about half a dozen times in a short period. is that normal for you to talk to somebody you berry know while campaigning -- >> sometimes, i make a good deal of phone calls. i wouldn't say it's ordinary. but it is a not extraordinary either. it seemed to me there are -- actually one of the fund-raising goals i have is to put together some music groups that have not been together for a while. she knew some members of one of those groups. and it seemed to me that it could be quite important to the campaign to try to put that together. if it had had happened it might have resulted in a good deal of money. i spend a good deal of time on phones with people who can raise

money. some are attractive and some of them are not. >> senator, you said yesterday that you perceive this as being common and appropriate behavior. did you ever stop to think during the course of this that these activities were coincidental with some statements that you had made about rumors that you didn't step back and say maybe this is going to be perceived as such and i shouldn't be doing this? >> yes -- the answer is yes and no. it occurred to me, i guess, at every step. what i didn't do is put the steps together. if i go in the front door, does that look bad? no. if you don't stay there. if you leave. everybody should have gone back out the front door because there was a monitor there. it was the pattern, i guess, that was the mistake. one entry, one departure, i

think it wouldn't have been a problem. the three or four instances put together that led to the -- >> [ overlapping speakers ] >> you raised in your remarks yesterday you raised the issue of morality and you raised the issue of truthfulness. let me ask you what you mean when you talk about morality. and let me be very specific. and i have a series of questions about it. when you said you did nothing immoral, did you mean that you had no sexual relationship with donna rice last weekend or at any other time you were with her? >> that's correct. >> do you believe that adultery is immoral? >> yes. >> have you ever committed adultery. >> i do not want to answer that question. >> it seems to me that the question of morality. >> you get into fairly fine definitions. >> the word was brought by you into this discussion. i need to know what your definition of your definition of

morality is. >> it includes adealtery. >> have you ever committed adultery. >> i'm not going into the definition of what adultery means. >> can i ask you whether or not you and your wife have an understanding about whether or not you can have relations with -- you can have sexual encounters. >> my inclination is to say you can't ask me that question, my answer is no, we don't have an understanding, we have an understanding of faithfulness and loyalty. >> senator, donna rice's mother in carolina said today she can't go out of her house, she can't go to work, that her daughter is devastated, it may ruin her life. have you called donna rice, her mother, are you planning to apologize? >> no. i think for obvious reasons. i think that just raises all kinds of other questions of have you talked to her since. i will do so publicly and say that i very much regret the events that have negatively

impacted her life, her friends' lives, her daughter's life, and all the others that i mentioned earlier. i have stated that i made a mistake. probably made a series of mistakes. but i happen to believe had other people done their job and everybody not made mistakes, none of us would be in this circumstance tonight. there is plenty of -- >> is it your understanding that donna rice went to ibmanie. >> she didn't force her way onto the boat. we decided, mr. broadhurst and i to go over to his boat. and she was on board the boat, and we asked her to go with us. >> did you or mr. broadhurst invite her on the trip? >> i don't recall. three or four of us were standing around. >> how did you get on the boat? >> just walked on the boat. >> she said you called on the phone and invited her on the

boat. specifically you. >> yes, she came on the boat. at the back of the boat we talked about the fund-raising and her participation in the campaign and the contacts she had in the entertainment community. and about midday or shortly there after, mr. broadhurst talked to the captain, said let's take the boat out, if it's all right, let's go out into open water and see what it's like and if it's clear enough i'd like to go to ibmany and see my boat. i suppose at one point we told she and her friend what we were going to do, do you want to go along. i don't recall whether i said do you want to go to ibmany or he did, but that was the discussion. >> did you call and invite her specifically on any trips. >> i invited her on the boat. >> on your telephone. >> she wanted to get involved in the campaign. i said leave -- as i always do, thousands of people, give me your name, i didn't frankly

recall her last name, your address, and your phone number. i called the next day, said would you like to come back and talk. and she did. then we talked about going on. >> senator, did you ever specifically invite donna rice to take a trip with you? >> no. >> senator, how many times have you met? >> senator, i'm sorry to follow up on paul taylor's question. [ inaudible ] discussion of morality as you see it except for the times when you and your wife were separated, has your marriage been monogamous? >> i have nothing to answer that question. >> senator, you've said that you made a mistake. what specifically was the mistake? and why did you make it? >> the mistake was to have people -- what was could get

engaged in a seefrz activities last weekend that led you to believe that i was involved with a woman. there were lots of parts of that mistakes that i could single out. but i also said i don't think i was alone in making mistakes. look, folks, there is some thing called fairness in this society. there is something called fairness. i'm going through this, and i will continue to. and i'm going to answer questions. i'm doing my best and i will continue to do my best. but this, as i said yesterday, there is a broader issue here than what i did or didn't do. that is whether the system of select national leaders is fair or not. i'm going to insist that this be a fair -- you can ask me about adultery and ask me whatever question you want. believe mai me my wife and i have answered more questions than anybody in public life, and we'll probably have to continue to. and i regret it.

i have a right to demand that the system is fair. if somebody is going to follow me around, they better follow me around and they better print all the facts. >> just to follow up on tom's question, if you feel you don't have to answer about adultery and whether or not the relationship was monogamous, why is it necessary to say whether or not you in fact had sexual relations with donna rice? >> a lot of difference between one person and her reputation than getting into the most intimate aspects of a long-term marriage. and i don't intend to stress my wife out. >> senator, can you please tell us -- [ overlapping speakers ] >> you are campaign this week -- you are cutting -- your aides say you wanted to spend more time together with your wife. is that a factor or what? >> that will be a result of. that obviously i wanted that.

>> senator can you tell us specifically when in the course of this campaign you have seen donna rice? and tell us exactly when, and all the times. >> all very repetitious. i met miss rice at a party of 40 or 50 people or more and asked her, i think new year's day or the next day. i did not remember her name. subsequently, and not any time before, i went aboard the boat after a fund-raising event in miami with mr. broadhurst and mr. broadhurst alone. there was no -- there were no invitations for anyone to join us. there was no plan for anyone to join us. i was there for a day and a half or two to relax. about 11:30 that night, a group of about a dozen or 15 people showed up at the boat. then having dinner the man who came on board the boat knew the owner and said i want to show my

friends this boat can we come aboard. we said of course. the crew took them aboard. they circulated on the boat. we talked to a few of them, said hello, how are you. talked about miami or anything else. i don't know. miss rice came up, introduced herself, said we met -- you won't recall this but we met at mr. henley's party in aspen. you were with your wife, i was helping serve the meal. i generally remembered that. we talked 15 minutes. i talked 30 or 40 minutes to other people in that party, men and women. i went up above and down below. her conversation and mine took place in a space no bigger than that and could not have been more than ten minutes. she said i've never been involved with a campaign, i'd like to, maybe i can help with entertainers, how do you do

that. i said leave her name, i can tell you i did not remember her last name. she wrote down her name and address and number. and left it on the boat. then came the ibmany trip. then the only other time i saw her was this weekend in washington. that's it. >> did you ever have intimate relationships with donna rice while you were separated or not. >> no. >> senator, you are indicating that you made a mistake. has your -- apart from the allegations of sexual impropridy has your image suffered in another way in that you will be perceived as someone who attends don henley parties and goes on vacations on expensive yachts. and is more of a jet-setter than you would like. >> i think i had on jeans at don henley's house, as others did.

there were all kinds of people there. i have known people in the entertainment industry for many years. people in colorado knew that. some of those people campaigned for me in 1980. that's no secret. people know who i am. >> senator you indicated that you made a mistake in judgment in permitting these appearances of improprietiy. you have been in politics for a long time. you have run for president before. even accepting your version of events, some people in politics have suggested that this suggests sort of a recklessness on your part, flirting with danger, if you will. can you address that issue? >> i once said i love dang he. i don't love it that much. no. i just didn't use good judgment that's all. i used very poor judgment. >> senator -- >> i shouldn't have done it. if i were up to anything that i shouldn't have been, i sure

wouldn't have done it that way. >> senator -- can you senator just describe how you perceive your relationship with miss rice, what kind of a friendship or what -- >> friendship. she's intelligent. attractive, obviously. but we don't -- you don't form that kind of relationship that's being suggested here in that space of time. >> senator the washington times reported that a passenger on the plane that miss rice flew on had seen an inscription in a book that said something in lieu of flowers, until we meet, love gary. did you make that inscription. >> i don't think i made that inscription. i probably made one that i shouldn't have. it didn't reflect on any intimacy. i suppose i sign or distribute dozens of one book or another that i've written over a period of time, and probably in the

space of a week or two, maybe in the hundreds. i cannot -- i frankly will tell you cannot recall what i said in there. but i might have said something like that, but i couldn't verify. >> senator hart, how is your fund-raising going? will this affect it adversely. >> we obviously -- as i said, two tests we've had of that, one in new york last night, which is a difficult time to raise money in. i've been trying over the years. we exceeded both anticipation and the revenue we targeted. to my knowledge, there were -- no one dropped out of. that i think some of you may have been there, and i think you can verify the atmosphere in the room. i thought it was quite warm. i didn't run into anyone there who said you have got serious problems on your hands or this is my last act ever support. in fact it was quite the

opposite. the personal response that i got ahead of time was very, very positive. our -- in routine, obviously intensified over the last two or three days. our campaign has been in contact with our key financial supporters, and even they obviously -- well not obviously -- have been under siege from other candidates trying to pick me off. to my knowledge, and i don't want to be categorical here because i can't be, no one has acknowledged there interest in leaving. >> some people think your relationship and dealings with miss rice indicate a certain willingness to take risks considering the situation you were in. >> that's what we were talking about. >> others ask if you are willing to take these kinds of risks when you are the frn in a campaign for president what kind of risk taking would you be engaging in as president? >> as i said earlier, i think in response to mr. shogun's question or someone over here,

we were talking about the issue of judgment and character. my position is -- and i feel very strongly about it, that character and judgment, among other quality of leadership, determination, will, commitment, and the rest, competent tent are tested over time and are tested in a variety of ways. i would submitted -- and i think a fair assessment of my character and judgment and leadership ability would have to include my entire public life, and indeed as it has my entire personal life before that public life. and i'm perfectly willing to submit that entire life to scrutiny. other people in public life have made mistakes. some of them have been a lot worse than mine. some of them have gone on to become presidents, some of them have become very good presidents. some of them hundreds of years after they have been brilliant presidents are still scrutinized

in their personal lives. i've learned a lot in the last few days. i've already suggested that the major lesson is even innocently, you can't do something that's going to give anybody the impression of something that's not innocent. but i also learned that there is a terrible terrible price to pay for being in public life these days. >> we have time for two more questions. two more questions. go, kevin. >> people in the american public looking at your relationship with this woman, knowing that you had thrown down gauntlet as it were to the press corps saying follow me, that was a risk. would you say it was risky what you did? >> i didn't think so, of it at the time in terms of as i say, going to din e inviting these people into my house to see it and me going out that afternoon having worked all morning on the speech that i gave yesterday. any of those individual actions is risky. looking back on it now, if someone had said ahead of time,

if you did this, if you did this, if you did this, and if you did this, could that be interpreted this way? obviously. but i was tired. i didn't think about it that way. i was not calculating anything. i just did what seemed to come naturally because it was innocent. >> senator, when we had the conversation on the plane where you said follow me, i have two questions. one, there was a young woman on the plane who is described as a friend of mr. broadhurst. was that donna rice. >> what plane were we on? >> the plane from austin to denver. >> no. there was not donna rice. >> where do you rank adultery on the list of acts by which you judge a politician or a president. ? >> i'd like to follow up on julia's question, how are you to persuade us or anyone who has looked at this story given that you did sign a book with this

woman, did you go on a cruise with her, you spent relaxed casual time with her in washington -- how can you convince us or anyone that your story is true? what can you tell us. >> i can tell you the facts and leave it up to you and the public to believe them. if you don't believe me, there is nothing i can do. i have told you the facts, mr. broadhurst told you the facts, ms. rice has told you the facts. that's the best we can do. next on road to the white house rewind, democratic candidate gary hart withdraws from the 1988 presidential race less than a month after his campaign began. the former colorado senator facedle gagss of a extramarital affair with a miami woman named donna rice. in this ten minute event in denver, the former colorado senator continued to deny the affair saying he was quitting the race to spare his family and friends from quote further rumors and gossip. michael dukakis won the 1988 democratic nomination but lost

to george h.w. bush in the general election. >> thank you very much. [ applause ] apologize fore being late. there was a little traffic coming down bear creek canyon this morning. i intended, quite frankly, to come down here this morning and read a short carefully worded political statement saying that i was withdrawing from the race, and then quietly disappear from the stage. and then after frankly tossing and turning all night, as i have for the last three or four nights, i woke up about 4:00 or 5:00 this morning with a start. and i said to myself, hell no! [ cheers and applause ]

and i'm not going to do that -- i'm not going to do that because it's not my style, and because i'm a proud man and i'm proud of what i've accomplished. [ applause ] let's hold down the applause. thank you. i appreciate it, but let's get through this. now, clearly, leigm and i have never had a tougher week, but i'm not a beaten man. i'm an angry and defiant man. i have said that i bend, but i don't broke. and believe me, i'm not broken. so instead of -- instead of getting this over fast, i'm going to just kind of talk a while about this week and the times that we're in. frankly, the hardest part about making this decision has been my children. they are both more angry and confused than i've ever seen

them in their lives. and very frankly, they are angry at me, their father. they don't want me to get out of this race. and you know, i believe that there are also a lot of angry and confused voters out around this country. what i have to say here is both for my children and for those voters. since getting into politics a long time ago, there are at least two things i haven't been very good at, talking about myself, and playing the political game. but i've never felt the voters really cared about either one of those things, frankly. they are smart enough to know who you are without you telling them. you look them in the eye and you talk to them and they decide whether you are telling the truth or not. so i haven't spent a lot of time and effort trying to create an image. i am who i am, take it or leave it. [ applause ] and frankly -- and frankly, i'm

pretty happy with who i am. and evidently, some voters have been also. i haven't based my campaigns on the support of politicians even though some of them are my very best friends. with all due respect, most politicians, with the exception of a few with great courage wait to see how political events are breaking before risking their political capital. and i understand that. but what this means together with the rest of it is that i guess i've become some kind of a bear bird, some extraordinary creature that has to be dissected by those who analyze politics to find out what makes them tick. well, i resist that. and so then i become cool and aloof or elusive or enigmatic or whatnot and then the more people want to talk about me, the more i resist it, and so on. so it gets to be like the cat chasing its tail. now, a number of friends of mine around the country will tell you

that in the weeks leading up to this race i gave serious thought to not running for president. in many ways, i didn't want to. it's because i had a to do a number of these profiles and i could see what was happening. i was going to be the issue. now, i don't want to be the issue. and i cannot be the issue. because that breaks the link between me and the voters. and that's what i tried to explain to my children. if someone is able to throw up a smoke screen and keep it up there long enough, you can't get your message across. you can't raise the money to finance a campaign. there is too much static, and you can't communicate. in the final analysis, the american people decide what qualities are important to govern this country in the national interests. and they haven't been heard from yet. the last public event we did was the night before last in littleton, new hampshire. there were maybe 100, 150 people there, the height of this

circus. and not one question about me. people there wanted to know about everything from south africa to aids, to yirld, to day care, to job training, to central america, and the list went on. i doubt any of that got on the evening news. and that's the point. in public life, some things may be interesting, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are important. whether i changed my name or still owe campaign debts may be interesting at least for a while. but for most people in this country that's not what concerns them. for the farmers in amarillo, the oil field workers in louisiana, the steelworkers in pennsylvania, i can tell you because i've listened to them, they want jobs. their kids want a chance to get an education. and like all of the rest of us they don't want to be killed by some nuclear weapon. but if you are going of to to spend all your time talking about yourself and you are not particularly good about that anyway, then you cannot maintain that link with the voters that

lets you listen to their concerns and offer your ideas and proposals. and that's about where we are today. now, clearly, under present circumstances, this campaign cannot go on. i refuse to submit my family and my friends and innocent people and myself to further rumors and gossip. it's simply an intolerable situation. i believe i would have been a successful candidate, and i know i could have been a very good president, particularly for these times. but apparently now we'll never know. i've had the support of some of the most talented people in this country, particularly young people and i want to say to all of them today, march on. there's a lot of work to do. we're all going to have to seriously question the system for selecting our national leaders that reduces the press of this nation to hunters and presidential candidates to being hunted, that has reporters in bushes, false and inaccurate

stories printed. photographers peeking in our windows, swarms of helicoptering hovering over our roof and my very strong wife close to tears because she can't even get in her own house at night without being harass. and then after all that ponder outside pundits wonder why some of the best minds this this country choose not to run for high office. i want those talented people who supported me to insist that this system be changed. too much of it is just a mockery. and if it continues to destroy people's integrity and honor, then that system will eventually destroy itself. politics in this country, take it from me, is on the verge of becoming another form of athletic competition or sporting match. we all better do something to make this system work or we're all going to be soon rephrasing jefferson to say, i tremble for my country when i think we may in fact get the kind of leaders

we deserchlt i say to my children and other frustrated and angry young people, i'm angry, too. i've made some mistakes. i said so. i said i would because i'm human. and i did, maybe big mistakes, but not bad mistakes. but i'm an idealist, and i love this country deeply, and i want to serve this country. events of this week should not deter any of you who are idealistic young people from moving on and moving up. i would say to the young people of this country the torch of idealism burns bright in your hearts. it should lead you into public service and national service. it should lead service. it should lead you to want to make this country better. and whoever you are and whatever you do in that cause, at least in spirit, i will be with you. thank you very much.