like we are close to out of time unless there is one more question? [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016] which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] -- [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> you are watching "american history tv," all weekend, every weekend on c-span3. >> historian james "bud" robertson talks about robert e. lee's tries to virginia and the various military campaigns throughout the state. during the question and answer period, it discusses his role in the centennial and sesquicentennial anniversaries of the civil war. this 45 minute talk was sponsored by the shenandoah valley battlefields foundation. mr. robinson: -- mr. robertson:

it's always nice to be the keynote speaker. you can speak in a disjointed way. totally disorganized, and people say that is marvelous. i'm going to do a disjointed speaker speech for you this morning, if i may. let's start with a couple of reflections on the confederate battle flag. if politically correct people were capable of understanding history, which they are not they , would complain not about the southern cross banner, but they would complain about the stars and bars. nationale south's flag, the emblem of a government, with slavery as is backbone. the battle flag is different in another sense. a soldier's home was -- not the brigade, not the division. it is in the regiment that he served with friends and neighbors from the same area. from the same area. what did the second, fourth,

fifth, 27th and 33rd virginia have in common? they all came from the southern part of shenandoah valley. these units gained immortality as part of the stonewall brigade. in all during the war, 6000 men would serve in the stonewall brigade and at appomattox, 210 were left, none above the rank of captain. every regiment went off with a flag. the flag was not a national banner. those flags borne by the 18th virginia, 26 new york, fifth alabama -- were insignia of state allegiance and state esteem. i think state pride, state existence has to be a player here.

people were actually surprised to learn this can drive sometimes reasonable folks to the point of reaction. that explains the reaction to the confederate flag. folks don't understand its meaning. the biggest mistake made by those today who want to interpret history is that they view the past with the lens of the present. you cannot do that. to truly understand it events of yesteryear, likewise one to look through those blinders. i'm an agreeable guy, but what gets against me is what people say, generally had not done that at gettysburg, things would have been different. if lee had had 150 years to

think about it differently, he would have done something different. that is grossly unfair to lee and others to assume that you know better than they did. people don't understand how the south could take on this. the power concentrated in washington was solution or a it came from time and circumstance in the civil war was the big hop for the federal government. had you lived in 1860, the federal government would have directed your life one way. it delivered your mail. that is the only contact you had with the federal government. you paid taxes.

you settled your disputes in state and local courts. we had no familiar flag. the average american had never seen the american flag. we had no national motto. we had no national anthem heard there was nothing nationalistic about this country at all, especially the 16,000 men in the united states army. nationalization starts with appomattox and has not stopped since. speaking of the outbreak of the war, i'd like to make a comment about these anguished decisions about which way to go. in april 1861, when he turned down every soldier's dream, supreme commander of the army, in order to go with his native state. we virginians took -- talk all the time about our history. we do so because we have so much more of it than anybody else.

in 1787, when a nation was proposed, virginia was already 180 years old. we celebrated colonial thanksgiving. i wish those people in massachusetts would get off that kick. in 1860, the united states was 70 years old. it was not old enough to have wisdom. at least family that time had been living in virginia 225 years. i do not think lee anguished at all over the decision he made that april evening. the three words that characterize lee's entire life -- devotion to duty. his primary duty was to his

family. his family had been virginians for over two centuries. the old dominion was lee's birthright. in graduate school, i learned that antietam was the turning point of the civil war. the gettysburg chamber of commerce never ceases its claim. facts and reflection say otherwise. the war had been going on for 18 months when the bloodiest one-day battle occurred at sharpsburg. thereafter, to an a half years of combat would follow. that hardly signifies a turning point to me. gettysburg came in 1863. they make good magazine articles.

jefferson davis maintained from the beginning hostilities that the south should wage what he called an offense of/defensive strategy. confederates would defend their homeland using inner lines of communication. when an opportunity came, southern armies would counterattack. davis reasoned that in a war, three things will happen. side b will win, side a will win, or the war ends up a draw. side a is the south, it could win. what about if the war ends up in a tie? nobody has won strategic hold over the battlefield. has not one side won?

the south won because it still exists. as long as the confederate flag is flying in the breeze, the south is winning. this is what davis thought the war should do. utilizing the advantages of defense, the south would curl back the attack. it would make an assault when the situation was promising. federal losses would mount slowly. federal moral, slip away. the north would ask for peace. the confederacy would have its independence. that is not something unique. the first part of that 1-2-3-4 scale, we side in vietnam. we hit them with everything we had in our arsenal, and they would not quit. we ended up stopping the war because the will to continue just slipped away.

amazingly, that scenario came terribly close to success when in the spring of 1864, the south came as close as it would come. despite two failures and northern invasions -- confederate victory was quite possible if the southern soldiers could hold off and come sherman in georgia. throughout may and june, men fought and blood flowed. southerners sherman engaged in an 80 mile campaign. two months of rather cautious found the union army in front of atlanta and seemingly content to stay there, while the southern army underwent a change in

leadership. union efforts in virginia were more complicated and far more bloody. but for a time, the end result seem just as empty. union generals were driven in flight from the shenandoah valley, thereby leaving pressure on that vital legion. the widely heralded grants was soundly defeated in the wilderness, beaten back in spotsylvania, and almost massacred at cold harbor. grant managed to slip across the chains and pulled up from the eastern outskirts of petersburg.

grant's 100 mile overland campaign contained the most vicious fighting in the war. the once powerful army of the potomac stuck with 65,000 losses in six weeks. northern moral limited. democrats were announcing grant is a bullheaded butcher. they declared, patriotism is played out. we are gone. another union official proclaimed, each hour is sinking us deeper into bankruptcy and desolation. atlanta stood defiant. grant was no closer this summer than george mcclellan had been two years earlier. while northern republicans made excuses, northern democrats again searching for an 1864 presidential candidates. in midsummer, president lincoln admitted publicly that he expended -- expected to lose. jefferson davis's offense of-defense of strategy was working. the union army was held back at

every corner. if the two southern armies could hold their own until the november elections, northern public opinion would and the civil war and the confederate dream would be accomplished. this is the high water mark of the war. it lasted three months, the time it took for northern military might to effect a complete turnaround. the navy got the first headlines. a change of commanders in the confederate army in atlanta proved disastrous. soundly defeated in each engagements. in virginia, grant, put a stranglehold on leave. grant kept widening the length

of his lines. this in turn stretched lee's smaller defenses. more importantly, grant's strategy took away from the only effective weapon the southern journal had, mobility. as long as lee could maneuver, if he could get in positions he could use his forces to his advantage. for the next nine months, grant was quite content to let his associates handle the siege. those associates being hunger, filth, disease, exposure to the elements, constant bombardment, fatigue, loss of spirit, increased desertions. all of these slowly suffocating the army of northern virginia. grant could never feel secure

until confederates were deprived of all use of the shenandoah valley. there had always been a geographic avenue pointing straight at the heart of the north. in addition, the valley was immensely fertile. it produced grain, meat, fruits that by 1864 were essential to lee's army. grant picked his most ruthless lieutenant to clean out the valley. grant wanted the shenandoah so thoroughly destroyed that he said not a crow -- that a crow flying across it would have to take his own food to survive the trip. sherman's march to the sea has long been overshadowed by the devastation of the shenandoah valley. in virginia, what sherman did is still called the burning. he destroyed a good portion of the valley.

on november 8, abraham lincoln won the election. the confederacy's great hope in the spring had vanished. sherman started towards the sea and gutted the southern nation. grant tightened the news at petersburg. -- noose at petersburg, cutting off the confederacy from the outside world. and thereafter, it was going to just a matter of time. civil wars are the worst of struggles, because no matter on which side you are fighting, the enemy is your fellow countrymen. destruction you inflict is destruction of your own country. those on the two sides are fighting for absolutes. the war is not going to end until one side is crushed. the atmosphere at celinda is

usually filled with vindictiveness and subjugation. that is the natural course of a civil war. such was not to be the case at appomattox. over three million men had borne arms in the civil war. somehow, someway they would bring this country back together again. so much has been written about what lee and grant did that palm sunday at appomattox. i think a greater understanding might be gained looking at what they did not do that chilly day of 57 degrees. lee could have followed the natural course after the civil war. one of his most reliable

associates suggested it. alexander came to lee earlier that palm sunday morning. tell the army to disperse. let the men scatter into the hills and woods sides. we can win, alexander said. we can win, if we don't lose. lee shook his head. that was not his idea of the future. we must consider the country as a whole, he said. if i took your advice, the men would be without rations and under no control at all. they would become bands of marauders. we would bring on a state of

affairs that would take the country years to recover from. no, lee concluded, i must go to general grant and surrender myself and take the consequences of my acts. grant also had to show us at appomattox he had done what no other general had been able to do for 3 years. he had at lost -- last brought the legendary silver fox to bait. grant could easily charge and with treason, humiliate him publicly, poor -- force him to pay painfully for the casualties he had inflicted over the years. grant could have sent all the confederates to prison and some to the gallows. the shadowed south was helpless in stopping any of these probabilities. but grant himself had known personal defeat for a good part of his life. he could empathize with how lee felt. further, unlikely, grant had a sense of history. and the judgments that come from

the future. earlier, presently can hundred visit grand at the headquarters. as lincoln walked up the plank of the ship taking him back to washington, grant supposedly standing on shore asked mr. president, what do you want me to do when i catch him? when quickly answered "let him up easy." and that grand did. lee was visibly surprised at the at the terms of surrender. even today, they seem unbelievable in the face of so much destruction. officers could retain their side arms for peaceful purposes.

some 25,000 rations would be issued out once to lee's starving army. and seven soldiers would simply sign paroles and go home and this is the key to it all -- so long as they did not break the law, they were not to be molested by any union authorities for any reason. leave could only state that this will do much reconciliation of our people. both lee and grant wanted a bad war to be followed by a good piece and lee's decision to .ease fighting and grants generous offers made it difficult for any postwar record your -- retribution. two notable soldiers served our country well.

the word appomattox had no meeting. after that sunday, mathematics thatthe a great board announced the moment in sunset and sunrise aimed together. it took a long time in virginia for theas in georgia civil war then in a reconciliation requires time and understanding and much personal effort. in the half-century since the passing of the war, enemies found themselves linked in what they read that if courage offers. they found themselves no longer enemy soldiers. .hey were all survivors they shared the same sympathies

for the younger man they once sacrifices each had made. thousands began to realize they had not been injured at all. they have been brothers and suffering and this mutual respect was the gateway to a lasting peace in our nation. not forget but they could forgive. the war was bigger than individual animosity. -- human callanan commonality glued them together. they were living reminders. ended july 3, 1913

. some 2500 veterans gathered to mark the 50th anniversary of the great battle and the emotional peak in that multi-day reunion , 3:00 p.m. 3 northern and southern veterans stood on opposite sides of the stonewall that had been the focal point of the charge. they shook hands. some reached out and hugged. others stood and wept. web got what had been, what was taking place. they had survived and so many of their comrades and not. we say they are all gone now and it is so.

the past is forever speaking to us and his speaks with many voices. those civil war generations went through an indescribable hell to call the pathway of the future future and i are that and our nation began in 1865 and to forget that is to make us undeserving of what we share together now and with god's blessings for all time to come. thank you. [applause] >> a want to remind everyone for the question and answer when you do have a question please wait until they can get to you with the microphone.

washen porter alexander tellingly that they should take harris -- andnd his response would not be good for the country and was he talking about the whole country meaning the combined south and north? do you think what he's talking about the country, he's talking about the southern region? james: he was talking about the whole country. i think lee has been greatly would assert but i very strongly that between 1865 american work harder toward reconciliation. he took over the presidency of a

small college that was bankrupt. he said at the beginning of his presidency "i have led the young men of the south nevada, i have seen many of them fall at my feet, i have an obligation to lead the ones that are left. of whate a living model not what to do. he was a soldier. he gained a higher education. the curriculum at washington college. for the first time, we have elected forces in american higher education.

he worked very hard. on the negative side, he would not attend the unions, not go to the memorial services, not even the dedication of a monument to his best lieutenant stonewall jackson. he would have nothing to do with the war. job thatch a marvelous the stations largest newspaper nominated lee for the president of the united states. had lee been elected, he could not serve. he was not a citizen of america. yet in three years, this man who had led the confederate army was a presidential nominee. at his death in 1870, an entire nation mourned.

a gallant foreman in the fight, a brother when the fight was done. we honor thee, virginia's son. beautiful tribute. five years after the war. lee became an american after the war, and he worked tirelessly for it. it pries my patience to hear people trying to pull him down. he should be an inspiration. we are not supposed to have inspirations today. we are all supposed to dwell on the same level of mediocrity. going to the back. >> i grew up in virginia during the centennial as a little boy.

the sesquicentennial got a lot of criticism of low attendance, this and that, all kinds of stuff. we want to tons of events and had just an outstanding event, something in atlanta was occurring every day, every night, every weekend. what were your thoughts at the sesquicentennial? i thought it was unbelievable compared to the 100th. james: it did not get the national attention the centennial did. you continual had 34 state commissions. it was a nationwide thing. americans were in the mood for it. you come up on an anniversary and everyone should be involved. for one thing, we were not at war. i had to spend the first 6 the biggest thing going in 1957,

the construction of the interstate highway system, which in itself was a growing cohesive thing. everybody was in the mood for it. the problem was, it got off on the wrong start. the director said, the south may have won the war, but winning the centennial, that's not the kind of anniversary it was meant to be at all. the dean of american historians came on and he was a close friend of kennedy. allen took over as chairman.

the vice-chairman of the commission was from a congressman from the first district of iowa. i had some cause of potential. in all that chaos, i was appointed. i had to spend the first 6 months traveling around the country. nobody was speaking to anybody. we got it straightened out. i think we had a very successful centennial. the sesquicentennial, you've got age against you. the centennial, a lot of grandsons and great grandsons were alive. u.s. grant the third, the son of general grant -- now, 50 years

later, you have in essence 2 generations had passed and war is more distant. life is more complex today than it was then. back in the 1950's, we were comparatively speaking, simple people. now we are so complex. it's hard to concentrate on anything for long in this country. but in virginia, we had the blessing on the fact that the two most powerful political leaders in the state were ardent civil war buffs. they became the chair and vice chair successively of the commission. we found we had gotten all kinds of money. all kinds of thing, and time doesn't permit me to express them. we ended up at the new sesquicentennial by getting a new state song. we went 18 years -- i thought we ought to have a state song. they said, you do it. i steamrolled the thing through. i insisted from the beginning -- it was going to be virginia's most famous folk song.

some circumstances, i met one of the great lyricists of my day. he got interested in it. he wrote lyrics for it. if you want to hear it, just google it up, "how great virginia." you can pull it up on youtube. getting it through the legislature is something i will never do again. truly learn the meaning of two-faced people. some of the strongest backers i had would get a letter from the constituent saying, i had written a great song.

they were forced to leave me standing empty handed. i'm delighted to say it past the house, 82-15. all 15 were democrats. it passed the senate 37-1. the loan dissenter was defeated in the spring primary. i love that. the governor had a big to-do. i'm the father of that state song. on the one hand, we are further removed from the war. on the other hand, virginia is always aware of its history. we designed and produced it for school teachers.

it is three hours long, but it really is 9 20 minute segments, and design for the classroom. if you are a teacher, you will agree with me. the ideal class is to talk 20, show 20, and rev up in 10. we put the civil war in nine categories. background, slavery, causes, battles, leaders, the home front, etc. it cost us $400,000, but it's a beautiful film. the problem with it is, we sent 3000 copies free of charge into every school in the commonwealth of virginia.

every school in virginia has it. people keep stealing it great the commission is just constantly replacing dvd's. i hope that answers your question. it was two different atmospheres. today is hard for americans to concentrate much on anything. >> this is a what if. if lee had been in better health and survived another 10 years, in terms of the reconciliation process you described, what you think his affect would have been on, for instance specifically the enforcement of the 14th and 15th amendments and the former seceded states? james: i have to think he would have continued to go -- everything was going for him. the moment in washington -- enrollment in college had quadrupled. they were getting more applications from more than boys then southern boys. the educational thing was going strong. lee's feelings were coming

contagious. people agree with him. lee would not do his memoirs because they thought it was discourteous to these men who had fought and died for him to capitalize on that. he completely divorced himself from the war and would have nothing to do with these postwar activities which incense is a blessing. willingness to forgive and forget were good. no question but lee was not happy in those years particularly in 1867. with deposit of the military reconstruction act, putting the south a military occupation. lee stated this was a gross violation of the surrender terms.

all confederate soldiers would go home. unless they broke the law, they were not to be molested. this is one of the major criticisms i will make of grant. grant was a wonderful general, a lousy president. he sat and did nothing, as reconstruction unfolded. we was quite disappointed in grandes indifference to it all. he simply wrote, there's nothing we can do about it but make it worse. grit your teeth, let's plow through it. i think if lee had continued to live and reconstruction had run its course, i think he would be remembered even more for what he did.

lee in virginia, whose roots go down 250 years, and to history -- when lee said, i cannot hold my sword against my family, my state, my birthright, he's talking about her junior -- virginia, in the face of a nation that was nearly 70 years old. >> doc robertson, i like to ask a what if question.

give us your best answer what you really think would have happened if lee would have got away from grant at appomattox, and would have went south. where would it have gone to from then, and where would the appomattox have been? james: i cannot answer that. i don't get involved in the what-if's. when the jackson book came out, everybody wanted to know. what would it have been like if jackson had been at gettysburg? i will tell you why you can't answer those questions. you are putting jackson down in july 1863. you can't. you have to go back to lee's invasion of the north, and jackson is in command. his troops are marching 30 miles a day. jackson has the lead. he would've passed through merlin before -- before joe hooker had his second drink of the day. jackson would have kept that momentum going, there would have been no battle at gettysburg. this is what you just cannot get involved in the what is. it makes great topics for discussion but you have to stay with the facts.

this lady up here. >> i have read that lee would have stayed with the north and the military. he asked if he could be in the non-combative position, and he was refused. therefore, he made the decision he did. is there any truth to that? is,unless you go back to a conversation he had with winfield scott when virginia's secession was pending. he met with scott, who looked on lee as a son. they had a discussion about options available to what lee

might do. that might have come up. there are different versions of what was said and what was not said, really. had to smile when you were asking that. i remember being on the set when they show the first scene. they are turning down the offer of command. bobby did that so realistically. i've had the pleasure of meeting many actors. i have never met one more intense than robert duvall. i tell you the thing about him that is so impressive. when he asks you a question, you have 100% of his attention when you answer. he is staring right through your eyes. the world could be collapsing around you, it doesn't make a difference. he listens to you.

he's gone all the way from playing a deaf-mute in "to kill a mockingbird," all these movies -- how do you do it? he said, i'm schizophrenic. [laughter] i think that there may be truth to that. it was just wonderful to work with the real professional actors. stephen lang deserves the academy award for playing jackson. the other actors were just as good. again, the joy of working on that set was to work with real actors who are not egomaniacs, as you might think.

it was a joy to be of assistance to them. duvall had long went into play. maxwell had told me that he was trying to get duvall. at 9:50 my phone rang. at 9:50 i'm thinking bed. hello? this is robert duvall. and i'm st. peter. who are you? that's how we met, over the phone. we met secretly and had dinner together in lexington. i jumped immediately. he said, i always wanted to play lee and i want you to help me

play lee. i was on the set for just about every scene that he filmed as lee. there's a scene in the movie to show the emotions of when lee gets word. he said something like, i prayed last night as i've never prayed before. the chaplain leaves, and duvall turns back. maxwell said, cut. duvall was crying. he had just gotten so much involved. that impresses me. that's what we hope to do in this movie that is being contemplated of lee and jackson. march 25, i think that's the date that lincoln arrives at city point. lincoln is arriving to talk to grant. lee is planning a desperate attack. probably end up on april 14. grant comes back to his room in washington. the president wants us to go to a play tonight. grant says, we made other plans. i will get back in touch with you.

thank you so much. [applause] you are watching american history tv. 48 hours of programming on week on history every c-span3. follow us on twitter. >> i hope both countries with being anstitution facilitator of agreement on key issues among the iraqis or afghans. your influence is considerable.

you have the government very anxious to meet with you. >> sunday night, former u.s. ambassador to afghanistan, iraq discusses his men more -- memoir. >> we saw the extremist exploited although we then corrected it toward the end of by time i was there but reaching out to the sunnis, building up iraqi forces, establishing a unity government. about security. violence was weighed down but when we left, the vacuum was filled by rival regional powers pulling iraq apart and violence escalated and we have isis now. >> sunday night on c-span's q and a. >> i am a history buff.

i do enjoy seeing the fabric of our country and how things work and how they are made. aremerican artifacts, they fantastic shows. >> that probably something i would really enjoy. american history tv, it gives you that perspective. >> i may c-span fan. >> this year marks the 50th anniversary of civil rights activist oakley carmichael's election as chairman of the student nonviolent coordinating committee and his founding of the black power movement. paniel joseph discusses life."k "stokely: a

this was hosted by the library of congress. it's about 45 minutes. we are here to listen to p aniel joe still. i have the pleasure of interviewing him on c-span on ,he occasion of his 2010 book "dark days, bright nights, from black power to barack obama." it was one of those wonderful, and hurried c-span book conversations. i never met him before and i was so impressed not only by intellect but by his ease, he humility, and introspection. i left thinking i am going to read all of that dude's books from now on until the end of time. whatever he writes. he is the author of the award winning waiting until the midnight hour, a narrative history of black power in