romonavs," about the dynasty that ruled russia for over 300 years. >> all the girls and all the children basically were wearing their own bizarre bullet proof vests. no bulletproof vests but vests romanov diamonds. they had spent months sewing these diamonds in. madethe bullets came, that their agony much longer because the bullets bounced off diamonds, the hardest substance known to man. >> sunday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span's "q&a." >> in one hour, american history tv will air extended portions of the 1976 republican

convention. president gerald ford and former california governor ronald reagan were in a close race for the presidential nomination. now author and historian craig surely join c-span to talk about the last contested gop convention. that is next live o n "washington journal" ♪ hardest q&a.-span's >> "washington journal" continues. , the author of a number of books, including "reagan's revolution."

was 1976 and we went to begin with talking about rule 16c. we want to welcome our viewers on c-span3's american history tv. coming up, a look back, courtesy the remarkabled coverage that led to president ford's, nation in 1976. here is a portion. the republican party is here to nominate a presidential candidate for 1976 and an incumbent president for the first time since 1912 aces a serious challenge from within his own party. that presidential balloting comes tomorrow night. be settled outd on the floor of this convention in kemper arena tonight. and wills acknowledge test their strength, which could make or break their candidate.

it will be on a change in the party rule, 16c, the number of the new role, proposed by the reagan sighed to enforce president ford to name his vice presidential running mate by tomorrow morning. 12 hours before the presidential balloting is scheduled to begin. 16c, we should point 16c was designed to do what? guest: to force president ford to name his running mate ahead of the ballot for the nomination of president of the united states. host: politically why? fractured,, it was they were outsiders, insiders, and lots of dollar fracture, too, and reagan's campaign manager reason that anybody would contact denies certain ofcentage of the delegation

the nominated convention, and hopefully prevent him from winning -- the whole goal was to prevent gerald ford from winning the nomination. a lot of delegates in states like north carolina and kentucky were mandated to vote for gerald ford on the first ballot and would be free to open or vote for whom they wanted to in the second ballot and there was reason that if they could get forward to name a running mate, it would suppress his clothes and he could not get the first ballot nomination. host: why is this important today? following "today, all republicans are reagan republicans, and reagan's definition of maximum freedom is consistent with law and order and has become the basis of the party's philosophy. furthermore, reagan unleash the most vigorous debates over the role of government in american daily lives.

since the founding of the republic. these debates and the ensuing translation of the republican party started with reagan's seemingly quixotic but most important campaign: his failed 1976 presidential campaign." guest: some things never change. ford's operation so he was advising john kasich and he was involved spencergan and 1976 and is still around, he was advising john kasich and was reagan's campaign, to factor campaign manager, so a lot of people who were around 40 years ago are still around today. host: if you look back at this convention, you have a sitting republican president and this led to the watergate investigation and the resignation of richard nixon, the first and only appointed vice president that became president, but a real division between the gop, more business

chamber of commerce and more conservative and ideological link led by ronald reagan. guest: it is interesting that as action as the republican party 1974, whenaugust, nick's and resigned, only 18% of the american people claimed allegiance to the republican party. voters under 30 years of age, had allegiance to the republican party. it was operationally dead. there was on the one state that had republicans in the legislative and that was kansas. there were states in the south that did not have elected republicans in office. republicans in the senate were so they cannotrs stop legislation. house,re at 143 in the so the republican party of august 1974 was for all

intensive purposes, in debt in the party. host: what are the moments you account in your book and it was not scripted. as gerald ford secured the nomination, he called on ronald reagan and nancy reagan took come down. let's watch, courtesy of cbs news. ♪ [video clip] ♪ >> i ask ronald reagan to come down and join me. reagan is still signing on the grass. -- signing autographs. he is shouting into the microphone. would you come down? come on down. they just delivered the alabama to reagan and the arizona standard.

he is walking down stairs and he comes to the podium. that is such a classic moment in american history. guest: it is all drama. talkingwhat reagan was about, a lot of drama. a single your -- the singular moment in american politics because he gives a speech live before 17,000 republicans that what, and that really is american politics is about -- drama. host: coming up in the next hour, a chance to watch on c-span3's american history tv, some of that remarkable coverage that did provide ample coverage of the proceedings. you mentioned a moment as reagan makes his way down to the podium and his impromptu remarks. [video clip]

someone asked me to write a letter for a time capsule that will be opened in los angeles 100 years from now. it sounded like an easy assignment. they suggested i write something about the problems and issues of the day and i said that to do so, writing down the blue pacific on one site and the mountains on the other and i could not help but wonder if it would be that beautiful 100 years from now as it was on that summer day. as i tried to write, let your own minds turn to that task. you are going to write for people 100 years from now who know all about us, we know nothing about them. we do not know what kind of world they will be living in, and suddenly, i thought to myself, if i write of the problems, they will be domestic problems of which the president spoke it tonight. the challenges confronting us,

the erosion of freedom that has taken place in the democratic role in this country, the invasion of private rights that control the restrictions on the metallic the of the great entry economy that we enjoy. these are our challenges that we must meet. and then there is the challenge of which he spoke between limited world and of which the great powers have poised and aimed at each other, horrible missiles of distraction, nuclear weapons that can in the matter of minutes to arrive in each other's country and destroy. , thosey it dawned on me who agrees this letter 100 readers are now -- those who would read this letter 100 years from now, they would know whether those missiles were fired, whether we met our challenge, whether they have the freedoms that we have known up until now will depend on what we do here. , ronaldaig shirley

reagan back in 1976. no teleprompter. he did not appear that speech. why? aest: he wasn't going to give speech that night. he was in the skybox. he was overlooking kemper arena and he was not going to give a speech that night. he was asked by tom brokaw. he said, no. ford knows he is the nominee of a broken and divided party. he needs a unified party and the best way to do that is bring reagan down to the podium this big to the crowd and hopefully endorsed and unify the party willse unifying the party win in the fall and divided parties will lose in the fall. think about when republicans are 1976, democrats divided in 1968, soaking you that if he had a chance against gerald ford, at this -- i mean,

jimmy carter because at this point, jimmy carter is 30 points ahead in the national polls of 1976. but ford reagan down, had also spoken and given arguably the best speech he ever gave, so they want reagan to tok a little bit less shiny his followers and make forward look better. and wanted reagan to endorse forward but not look too good or do too well, so that is part of the agenda, too, but still, tremendous animosity between the factions. went 1976 the last time we into convention without knowing who the nominee would be. 40 years later, are the lessons to the republicans and democrats? phone lines are open. (202)-748-8001 line for republicans. (202)-748-8000 for democrats. send us a tweet @cspanwj.

you were not there but your wife was there. guest: my wife was there and they had to group of beautiful supporters for gerald ford called presidential's. they were organized by the ford campaign, and whenever he made a public appearance in a crowd with tv cameras, the presidential's would appear and cheer and applaud, you know, encourage the presidents of the united states. she was there as a presidential in 1976. if": this is a "what question, if he had been the nominee, do you think you would have been jimmy carter? guest: i have talked with a number of people about this and i think, yes, he would have. he would have brought in the reagan democrats currently, so ,tates like mississippi, ohio and out of 4 million votes, it

was covered by 6000 votes and texas is just as close. i think reagan would have swung both the state to his side. secondly, i doubt reagan would have made a hash out of the presidential debates the way forward to did. you remember the second debate where he effectively stopped his rising in the polls catching up to carter and he froze five days to seven days before he apologized and started rising again, but he did not catch jimmy carter in time. i think it is quite possible that reagan would have won. states like michigan are open to question because they went heavily for ford, and i don't know, but it was a tremendously close election. hawaii, which is like 2000 votes for jimmy carter and ohio only went by 6000 votes, you would have had a deadlock because there was one

fateful election that year from washington state who voted for gerald ford, so you would have been to 69 and 26 the ninth and it would have put it in the house of representatives. who knows at that point because gerald ford had a lot of friends there and jimmy carter was open and running a campaign hostile to washington. no one knows what would have happened. host: ted is joining us, democrat, you are on the phone with craig shirley author of how many books now? guest: seven. caller: good morning. i am going to today's politics and the republican party and i was wondering if he could comment on michael reagan's comments about whether his father would support from an -- support from, and even ronald reagan, it concurs with whether reagan would approve of a nominee like trump. host: thank you.

guest: mike and ron knew their father, his thinking. whether or not they could speculate reagan would support from is another matter. reagan did support the nominee of his party even though he disagreed with him. it is interesting to note that 1964 when goldwater was controversial nominee of the all of themarty, fled during goldwater, mitt scranton,ather, bill they all fled. the only two people that stood by goldwater work richard nixon and ronald reagan and both ended up becoming president of the united states, so there is something to be set up loyalty. host: a viewer said, how did break and finally beat the gop hisblishment and create "big tent" at the same time? guest: reagan never coined "they

tent," but a lot of the primaries were open primaries so that democrats and independents could come and vote for the candidate of their choice. reagan would have lost the wisconsin primary arguably to then ambassador george bush because so many reagan democrats turned out to vote for ronald reagan and interestingly, they were not called reagan democrats until after the 1980 election. they were simple conservative democrats were democrats supporting ronald reagan. and a lot of key states, were for ronald reagan, so he repositioned to the republican party toward the more populist outside party by basically running against the establishment. when he ran in 1976, he held the national press conference and he invades against the district, labor, lobbyists, upon it was

anti-bigness. populist activity in illinois at the time. he was born in kentucky, grew up in the 1930's, so he did so in a way that he did so also by talking about freedom and toortunity and talking primary voters and the general election voters in a way that republicans have not talked before. host: our guest is craig shirley , one of facebook books "reagan's revolution," which is what we are focusing on. we are also airing this program on c-span3 american history tv and on that network, a chance to watch about 4.5 coverage from cbs news of august 1976. it is fascinating. margaret, chapel hill,

tennessee. good morning. caller: good morning. i just want to kind of say that i disagree with him saying reagan would have been carter in those days. i do not believe that the country was ready for another republican. read "the presidents club" to find out what really happened behind-the-scenes. it is very interesting. thank you. host: thank you. guest: i read "the president's club." it was a very good book. it was strictly a speculative question but i do think it was possible. nobody knows, but it is possible reagan would have brought a different campaign and gerald ford would have. gerald ford was tied to watergate and reagan would not have been tied to watergate and he would have run a different campaign. continuation of the next and

administration would not have been an issue had reagan been the nominee as opposed to gerald ford. host: when you see this tweet from a senator in a tech reelection battle in illinois and he said, even my military experience, donald trump does not have the temperament to command our military or our nuclear arsenal. the reaction? in the state of the republican party today. guest: i won't say disaster, but i really do think it is open to the question of how the party with a merge. there is no doubt that a skid exists, there are the populists in terms of outsiders and there is the establishment corporate, big government republican insiders. 43was coined during the bush republicanson, so argued for what i call high parties, which of the government dictating programs and arthur

initiatives -- and other initiatives to the people. path is founders and framers and what they intended, which is power flows ofard to the people instead downward, and that is the great debate inside the republican party. where does power reside? visit reside with elites, in washington, with new york, or does it reside among the many american people? the party has not decided which path it will follow. host: john is next for massachusetts on the line for independents morning. caller: good morning. i did not know what line to call in for. democrat,ow republican or independent, but i wanted to talk about the 1976 convention. i was working in massachusetts

for the and republicans and kind of amazing people like hugh hewitt, but he was working on the campaign back then. more interesting to me was the dole at theobert convention, he was kind of the rising star that convention, and just in the timeframe that you have been up and all the things that have gone on in the past with jimmy carter and operation cyclone and yadda, yadda, and all the rhetoric and things that happened that watergate compared to kind of what is going on now, it seems like it is quite [indiscernible] what are your comments on that? host: thank you. history does repeat

itself sometimes with divisions inside the republican party by the goldwater campaign and watergate and with george romney and nelson rockefeller and others in the theme is repeated today. we know what the outcome was for the goldwater campaign and we for thed the foundation nomination ronald reagan in 1976 and 1980. a party in many ways rejected reagan and embraced bushism, although, now it is hand-to-hand combat over what path it will follow. host: they say this, there is nothing wrong with the gop view, the people, only in the eyes of what they call "the dinosaur elite" that will not conform. guest: i think he has a fair point.

when is the last time the republican party proposed shaking government? i am talking about washington politicians, when was the last time the proposed eliminating the department of education, energy or downsizing in any way, shape or form of shrinking the power and control of authority of the national government and sending it back to the state's and localities where it belongs? therein lies this the the disagreements inside the party thinkbecause the people one thing and the elites think something different. host: let's go to new york city, democrat line. caller: good morning. ?that does the fact hillary have the temperament she questions inald trump's temper -- question the fact that does hillary have the temperament? she questions donald trump's temperament, but she went to iraq and has dismembered the

entire arab union over there. she is the lender should be held accountable. we should not be rewarding her with the presidency when she did that awful mistake. you just don't say, whoops, i made a mistake. clinton'smrs. defense, almost everybody except to going into iraq and that was a natural reaction to 9/11. also have their divisions, too, and that is part of the fuel for bernie sanders' hindsight is 2020 and it remains to be seen whether this issue will dog mrs. clinton or not. host: first, why did gerald ford decide not to run for a full term and then change his mind? guest: you did your homework. he wrote a piece after he became vice president and shortly after

he became president, after nick was out of office in 1974, i think he got bad advice -- after nixon was out of the office in 1974, think he got bad advice. do not forget that the country was in very sad shape as of august 1974 as your celeb were with vietnam, we on the losing rates,vietnam, interest gas lines, arab oil embargo's, and in every way, shape and form, consumer, people's attitudes, it was not in good shape in august 1974. i think he got the way to heal the country would to say that he is not going to run for election and then he will govern as president of all the people and not the republican party. he immediately creates questions concert to terms and if

he cannot serve a full four years of his own, why should he be there to terms? -- why should he be there two terms? there were personal insults aimed at ronald reagan that generated from gerald ford's white house. this election of nelson rockefeller as vice president, was that the defining moment for ford and reagan? i interviewed vice president cheney about this and nelson that they chose rockefeller for reason of stature. they wanted to bring someone into the administration who was seen as having stature in american politics and the world affairs. gerald ford was a one term congressman from michigan, who was not seen as a world leader,

not even as an american leader, thethey wanted to bulk up authority, the magistrate of the executive office and branch, so that is why they threw rockefeller in. it did not help. in fact, it hurts because it fueled proceeds of conservatives breaking forward which led to eventually reagan's challenger. host: we will have a couple more minutes from the cbs coverage, including gerald ford and a conversation with senator bob dole, forward's running mate. as go to matt in minnesota on their republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. i have a question for mr. shirley. in minnesota, we had an election with the establishment with komen for governor and skip humphrey and the republican democrat and we had a wrestler, who won the governorship here.

i'm wondering if you can draw some parallels and see how assibly electing an outsider trump, as we might, could be a big mistake, which was, in my opinion, i don't think jesse forure have the temperament governor. he did some things ok, but he was mostly kind of a nothing. i am curious of what you think about that. host: thank you. guest: benjamin rush was one of the founders. fire. paine was the power by that, he meant that american is that it succeed must always be in perpetual

state of the revolution. you must always question authority, status quo and how the season that eventually became the republican party. they have been anti-status quo. teddy roosevelt was anti-status quo. so was dwight eisenhower. dominated america and washington for years since the end of world war ii. quo, and oftatus course, ronald reagan was the very definition of anti-status quo. you never think of what reagan is going to be as part of washington because he came for eight years and he constantly challenged the reigning authority and status quo. conversation, (202)-748-8001 for republicans.

(202)-748-8000 for democrats. the 1976k back at convention that pitted president gerald ford and former governor ronald reagan. general ford -- gerald ford delivering these remarks after getting the nomination. [video clip] ford: to whom the overwhelming the power had twice been shattered, losing faith in the word of their elected leaders and americans want some of their faith in their own selves. again, let's look at the records of august 1974. the start, my administration has been open, candid, forthright. [applause] while my entire public and private life was under searching examination for the vice

presidency, i reaffirmed my lifelong conviction that truth is the glue that holds government together, not only government, with civilization itself. [applause] i have demanded honesty, decency and personal integrity from everybody in that executive branch of the government, the house, senate have the same duty. [applause] the american people will not accept the double standard in the united states congress. [applause] as you look at that speech, how did forward do -- how did ford do?

guest: he did very well. it was certainly the best local speech of his life. he was not known as being a good speech maker and one commentator said ford could see the sleep in the second paragraph and reagan could not get a standing ovation -- and reagan could get a standing ovation from a graveyard. he helped write the speech and how to practice in front of the teleprompter. ronald reagan was arguably the best speech maker and america, he and jesse jackson probably the best speech makers in 1976, so he has got to do something about this. arguably the best speech is ever given in his life. host: the kemper arena in kansas city, missouri, i mention that because stephen is from there. is the arena still there? caller: yes, it is.

is, how did the republicans go from eisenhower through george bush having a strong america and not always having the gop establishment win, but they were never nationalist like trump. how did they go to get one elected like this? guest: i will try to answer this. parties involved, they change over time because the issues change. men and women change and the attitudes for the american people change. the republican party has changed since the time of reagan. inple forget jimmy carter 1976 ran against the washington establishment. it was pretty good on issues [indiscernible] in many ways as a conservative optimist outside contradictory to

what the democratic party had been since the time of franklin d. roosevelt, when they put more faith in the government. the ability of the government to protect resident kennedy or martin luther king jr. or bobby kennedy junior, so the government by the 1976 is at an all-time low and it illustrates my point that parties change because issues change because people change. host: the relationship between ronald reagan and gerald ford was -- guest: [laughter] difficult, complicated. one of ford's speechwriters wrote that the could barely be in the same room together and cannot stand they each other, which is unusual because reagan's were very affable and got along with just about everybody. host: why didn't forward ask as

deagan f -- why didn't for asked reagan to serve as his running mate? to geraldy had gone ford several weeks before and they were armed with polling ford'shat said that best choice in 1976 would be reagan to reach out to democrats in key states like michigan, pennsylvania, texas, mississippi , but reagan considerably did not want to be, so he told john sears to talk to cheney that when he meets a ford after the battle, regardless it he wins the nomination, that i do not want him to embarrass the president of the united states by telling him, no, i do not want to be his running mate, so to be myo not tell him

running mate, so they delivered the message to dick cheney to ford's white house chief of staff. they met the night that ford won the nomination but ford did not ask reagan to be his running mate because reagan did argue said he did not want to be his running mate. host: and john sears is still alive today. guest: still alive. talks aboutook something missing these days, the silly hats from 1976. fromll listen to chad north carolina on the republican line. caller: i heard the comment about jesse ventura and he was i think what our founding fathers wanted. he had been in navy seal, which less than 1% of military becomes.

thatw what he thought was needed fixing. in my opinion, i grew up in georgia. presidentot another who built houses. he still teaches sunday school in 90 years old and i think reagan was a powerful speaker and he was kind of -- people trusted reagan, probably the best figurehead country has ever had. that is just my opinion. last act, the final years and emerging legacy of ronald reagan. guest: yes, i believe that card or -- i believe that he has defined the role for former presidents. most presidents went [indiscernible] en president would

call, they would go back to private citizens and not engage in work through a corridor has -- the way carter has. he was very, very helpful. host: mark joining us from new york. frank, good morning? i will try one more time for frank in new york. let me ask you about this reagan'swho was ronald running mate in 1976. why did that backfire? guest: it did not backfire. it worked brilliantly. host: they said they were upset. but he supported it. they were upset, but he supported it. it was a risk, which according to [indiscernible] something to do because it was three weeks out

from the convention, and they had the most respected operation in america, egg, massive, well-funded. looking athad been numbers, jim baker held a press conference saying reagan had 1157 and they would hold a dueling press conference saying, no, and nobody knew what the actual count was. in this fraud machine to keep their candidate's chances alive until kansas city. kansas city is the first time republicans did not know who the nominated party is going to be since 1952, the first time when they didn't know if it would be dwight eisenhower or the senator from ohio. it is the first time trying to gain psychological advantage, so cbs says, we will just count everybody ourselves, so they -- they startout

calling everyone around the country. and if all 55 share to contact said it, you could bank on it and it was true, the most trusted man in america. to announce, prepared to announce that gerald ford has secured enough beforees, three weeks the convention, if he does this and goes on national television and makes the announcement, reagan's campaign is dead in the water. the storyo change line. the way to do it was for reagan to do something unprecedented, which was to choose his running mate the head of the convention. they chose them brilliantly. reagan was a well, modern conservative from pennsylvania who was ironically afford fordate -- ironically a

delegate. conservative on pro-life, vaccinations, the second amendment, national defense and he had been vetted by the media, was married to a wonderful woman and never any scandals associated with him. all, it will kill the cbs story because it will create doubt about pennsylvania and new york and other state delegate counts, so that part of it works brilliantly, which is to kill the cbs story. they keep reagan's campaign alive until the convention and was part ofy -- it a three-part strategy by sears, first was the campaign, second ford to nameing

their running mate, and the third part was to get the motion on the floor that both tickets have to address the convention and that is what terrified ford forces, they do not ronald reagan addressing the convention. he was this close to a runaway convention and they were terrified. reagan spoke to the national we saw, andas people and have said, i do not care what the rules say, i am voting for reagan for president of the united states. at least one delegate turned into a ford supporter and she turns to reagan field manager and says, oh, my god, we have nominated the wrong man. host: let's go to black in georgia. -- let's go to buck in georgia. you particular

call. great conversation by the way. i am wondering how these outsiders or if these outsiders are an indispensable, if unintentional sort of antiseptic to the flow of power? i am not sure was designed this way but it really sounds like it in the air of the conversation that these people are more than indispensable. guest: they are more than indispensable. , you know, iton says we the people, not we the leaves or with the corporate elites, but we the people. you take the literal meaning of the framers and founders, it is that this is a government of all the people and not just the elites, so we had a great tension going on and sometimes more.

during the great depression and world war ii, we are far more united as a country than we are today. formere will hear from senator bob dole in the moment. why did gerald ford select him? guest: the night that reagan and ford met alone at the alameda hotel, after ford secured the that ford handed reagan a list of about six candidates to run. dole knew he was on the short list and he asked an old friend, look, if president ford asks governor reagan about me, we do ask governor reagan to say something nice? so he said, yes and he tells this to reagan and if ford asked you about dole, say something nice, so reagan was looking at

handed himat ford and he speaks favorably for bob dole, which is part of the dole. why ford chose he was a conservative, 19 76, war hero, well thought of, they thought he would be a good combative campaign there and take the fight to corridor in 1976 and that he would be a good debater and you would help unify the convention. he was not a stand-in for reagan but acceptable. host: we had a conversation with bob dole, not only about his role as gerald ford's running mate, but this question -- did ronald reagan do enough in 1976 to unite the republican party? [video clip] you about that moment where ronald reagan came down and you are standing off to the side with resident ford.

do you think at that point that he did enough to unite the republican party in 1976? dole: no, i would have to say probably not. i mean the reagan people were reagan people. candidatesonderful and he did not get the nomination. i think there are thousands and thousands of republicans, reagan republicans and reagan democrats , who did not support ford. i was the one who met with reagan a couple of times, once in new hampshire, and i cannot remember the second place.

we try to bring him around and get him to support wholeheartedly, if that is the word. and is very good to me, think it was attempted endorsement, i am not certain how he said it, but it was not very long. i think he could have made a afference and talked about very close election. this was a very close election. was he right about that? guest: probably. you have to put yourself back in 1976. reagan has just lost by the

narrowest of margins. he has lost because of shenanigans and hanky-panky in some delegations like in new york, mississippi and others. he has also been the brunt of personal attacks gerald ford and the former white house for two years. he has gone through grueling campaigns, so he is angry. time, he did not do a lot of campaigning f for theord -- campaigning for the ford ticket. ford did not call and ask reagan for his help until one month after the kansas city convention and the election of 1976 was very complex. the national election was until november 2, the early sin has been held in 100 years. from let's go to ari georgia. caller: who did ronald reagan

send to iran before the election in 1980 to negotiate with them about holding onto the hostages? guest: nobody. there has never been any credible -- the october surprise got flipped on its head because it was referring to carter possibly getting the hostages out before the november election and the american people were in gratitude with reelection in november of 1980, so there is far more evidence that the hostages were manipulated for political gain and there is some didence with jimmy carter such as the morning of the wisconsin primary, when he goes on national television to announce a major breakthrough that has occurred in the hostage negotiations, thereby, he picks up his voters and supporters in

wisconsin in 1980 and ends up winning the primary there. the wonderful political reporter for "the washington post" noted several long detailed stories in 1980 about how president carter had politicized and used and manipulated the hostage crisis to his advantage in 1980, so there is far more evidence coming from many more sources that carter politicized the hostage crisis and actually, on the sidelines throughout 1980. the summer of 1980 when carter attempted the rescue, which failed, reporters caught up with reagan and he said, this is the day for two words in many prayers and that is pretty much it. host: in about 10 minutes,

coverage from 1976 cbs news. you can watch it on c-span3's american history to be as you look at the convention in kansas city. a lot of great moments, including this one under the direction of walter kwok right -- walter cronkite. he makes a reference to the former governor of new york. [video clip] walter: could you stand up for a moment? the phone people are here connecting it. you have the disconnected phone. governor: it was the greatest efficiency and they are tremendous with speed, right on the job. i have to give it back so they can put it in. walter: good for the fund company. -- good for the phone company. mr. vice president, what happened? what did you see? who did it and what happened? know and we just

told nick rosenbaum that if he did not get that sign back, -- walter: what sign was that? take a sign from another man, a reagan sign. >> he held it as i went by. walter: and then he came back to get the reagan sign back. >> it was a man from utah. walter: ok. -- a little on the light side. walter: ok. >> i am trying to get out but i cannot get out. walter: vice president wants to get out of here and he cannot unless we get out of here. there he goes, secret service helping him. from 1976, vice president nelson rockefeller and a classic moment. guest: total spontaneity.

conventions were so scripted and we expected to be less scripted this time, but this was complete spontaneity. that is the vice president of the united states, but that was part of 1976. what happened was that rockefeller for a sign that was holding up that said reagan for president and rockefeller ripped it out of the delegate's hand and tore it up and the utah delegates on what was happening and he took the sign away from nelson rockefeller and gave it back to the north carolina delegate. he agitated the whole situation and it was from rockefeller. host: hector from san diego. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. -- the last comment answered my question in terms of security for the 1976 convention.

host: what about security? guest: there was secret service, but that would never happen in a million years, they would not viceallow dick cheney or presidents for now or nominees to go on for today, even with all of the technology and all the other security. they would never allow the vice president or president to mingle with the delegates, except in the most controlled and limited circumstances. host: i say this with a smile on my face, look at the hair from 1976. john from philadelphia on the republican line. where the democrats will meet this time. caller: good morning. thank you for having me. my daughter is working the democratic convention as an electrician down there.

wasmember back when reagan about to come in office. i was really young and did not understand a lot of things about politics, but what i thought was that they carved away from the a shoo-ina that was for reagan to become president. that was known before he was elected that that was what he was going to do. iran contra was run by h and became an issue in 1987, but i don't see the connection. host: lessons for republicans in 2016 as you look back? guest: faith in the american people. isresentative government

derived term republic and the public is derived from christian values, which is that the apublican party should be moral, anti-corrupt and anti-insider party. concentrationsth , personal freedoms, and the best way for the republican party to perceive or to proceed forward in the country, especially with the people, is not the question of ideology but practicality. country a big, fast is the best way to govern is to send power out to the american people, the localities individuals -- localities, individuals and let them decide. host: as someone who spent his entire life falling republican politics, i want to share with you the passing of the former senator who began in cleveland,

ohio, as the mayor, and he was 79 years old. his legacy. --st: george point of h vich was a pioneer of new republican style in the midwest, which can about after eisenhower, which was ideological compared to wild ronald reagan, but he wanted a break from the past of the republicans that brought a lot of performing party politics. your new book on newt gingrich will come out when? guest: next spring. host: thank you for being with us. specialis a cbs news report, campaign '76.

[snare drums] tonight, the third session of the republican national convention from the kemper arena in kansas city. this portion is sponsored by merrill lynch. merrill lynch is bullish on america. here is walter cronkite. cronkite: good evening. this may be the most exciting political convention session in years. it's supposed to start a half hour from now. the republican party is here to nominate a presidential candidate for 1976. and an incumbent president for the first time since 1912 faces a serious challenge from within its own party. the presidential balloting comes tomorrow night according to the schedule but the matter could very well be settled on the floor of this convention in kemper arena. there will be a vote tonight that both sides acknowledged will test their strength which

could make or break their candidate here. it will be on a change in the party rule. 16c is the number of that new rule proposed by the reagan side, it would force president ford to name his vice presidential running mate by tomorrow morning. 12 hours before the presidential rulesing is scheduled toalso te fight and the contest over the parties platform on which the candidates are expected to run. also tonight, a speech by john connolly, the former governor of texas and the cabinet official, one-time democrat turned republican and capable of a rousing speech from this podium that could affect the conventions courts and its own political future. supporter withd strong ambitions of his own. president ford has broken the president of the years passed