it a major political party. watch it live on c-span. listen on the c-span radio app. atget video on demand c-span.org. you have a front row seat to both conventions on c-span, all beginning up on monday. july 16. coming up next, justice ruth bader inspired and sonia sotomayor shared information about the supreme court food tradition. including topics of conversation at shared meals. we will also hear from the supreme court curator. this took place at the smithsonian museum of natural c-span ande on washington, d.c.. see sore thrilled to many people here for this program.

my name is john gray and i have the privilege of being the director of your museum of natural history. particularly on nights like tonight when we can look at american history in a unique way. we are honored to be joined by panel.hts supreme court justice ruth bader ginsburg. ♪ [applause] supreme court justice soanya sotomayor. [applause] kathryn fitz. and supreme court publications director. [applause] >> it is now my privilege to

certifiedthe board cardiologist, jazz musician, and former president of cornell university of iowa. he is interested in learning and most importantly, it he is a pescatarian. you for the introduction and thank you on behalf of the american people for the great job you do. so innovative and creative. this is an amazing museum. [applause] >> and especially in such an interesting election year, we appreciate all you and your colleagues are doing to share so many aspects of america.

esteemed colleagues and friends, welcome to this unique opportunity to find out more about the highest court in the landing and how its members have worked together. the supreme court and the smithsonian have long had close ties. since the 19 century, the chief justice is served as the smithsonian board of regents. i am indebted to chief john roberts for his work in this capacity and the guidance he has provided me and my transition in the first year at the smithsonian and the education hist the smithsonian and ongoing leadership. justice sotomayor and justice ginsburg, i thank you for your crucial work which underpins our democracy. thank you. [applause]

speak for everyone when i say you are pioneers, role models, and exemplar the simple thinking which undergird the american law, and i am glad to say, friends of the smithsonian. shared their fascinating stories with us as part of our smithsonian associates program and they are both represented in the national portrait gallery. the painting also features justice kagan and former justice o'connor. i encourage all of you to see it , it is on display through october. the national postal museum has stamps that feature stamps -- legal giants. say itm proud to features sandra day o'connor when she was sworn in as the first female justice in the supreme court.

the seismic shifts and our nation's history have been characterized i struggle. the politics have been frequently hotly contested. year's contentious presidential election unfolds, it is good to remember that politics can end at the edge of a plate. this is because food brings us altogether. it is communal. it is ritual. boundas always civilization. it is evident in the centuries-old tradition of breaking red. one of my favorite variations of the term is, it is hard to remain enemies when you have broken bread together. nothing exemplifies that sense of it more than the close relationship shared by justice ginsburg and the late justice antonin scalia. the picture of the two of them on top of an elephant in the top of -- on the top of an india to me was worth many thousands of words. these millions -- these

brilliant colleagues put that aside when breaking bread. convening people to explore our shared humanity and wisdom is what the smithsonian is all about. from discussions of current topics to educational programs to events like this which examine our common bonds, the smithsonian is at heart a place where people can come together. thank you for gathering so we can hear fascinating stories and for taking food for thought. john? [applause] much,nk you very secretary. and thank you to our partners at the supreme court historical society. thelso welcome the staff of supreme court in the offices of justice sotomayor and justice ginsburg and many of our other

guests. we are honored to be joined by two members of the nation's highest court and they come together to talk about food. in fact, this is one of those rare and special times when the justices will speak publicly on topics outside the law. we are the home of julia child's kitchen and so many other treasures related to food and its consumption and production and we do so for a reason. we make the intimate link between food and our history and in doing so we help our nation understand the past in order to make sense of the present and shape a more humane future. history, food stores, and our own history of food, we empathyn awareness and for all. with that, a few ground rules. please limit your photography to the first two minutes of the

discussion after i leave the stage. remember to turn off your cell phones. it is now our honored to introduce two nights pattern on the fascinating, delicious topic of food at the supreme court. introducingme in our panel. ginsburg join the court in 1993, formerly she had a distinguished legal career. attendedinsburg harvard law school and received a degree from columbia law school and served on the law review at both schools. sonia sotomayor joined the supreme court in 2009, previously as part of it an extensive and distinguished u.s. career, she served in district court, southern district of new york, she earned a jd from yale law school where

she served as editor of the law journal. the -- and thed -- thank you all for joining us at our table and we look forward to this discussion. thank you. ] pplause >> thank you for that introduction. on behalf of the supreme court historical society, i would like to thank the smithsonian for partnering with us at this event and for hosting us in this beautiful room and especially to the staff for organizing it. night --old february ina cold february night

1790, the justices met and held their first session of the supreme court and new york city. they adjourned, they went to a tavern in lower manhattan and to eight. they dined with new york's district judges, the attorney general, and had a good time. they made 13 toasts, including one to the president, one to the new national judiciary. its very inception, the supreme court justices have found ways to come together and share meals. appointed for life, they often said on the bench together for years if not decades. they look for ways to enhance cordiality and cooperation by breaking bread together. we are going to examine

the evolution of some of the evolving foodand from the early 19th century and hear about what some of these distinguished justices have to say about current practices. let's start with the marshall court era. john marshall, the great justice who presided over the cord. there were six and then seven justices and they were appointed from all up and down the eastern seaboard from georgia to kentucky. they came to washington to the supreme court sessions a loan. they left their wives and hometown.n their they did not move their families to washington because the term was very short. during the john marshall irick, it was about two months long.

accordingly, chief justice john marshall arranged for them all to live together in a boarding house and they had almost all of their meals together. so, catherine, why did john marshall want the justices to live, dine, work, and socialize together? would say that the primary reason was he wanted to build a bond between the justices. courts goes to say the had a nomadic existence. york and thenew moved to philadelphia and then came to washington. we have to remember in washington it was not the city we know today. there were very few places for the justices and members of congress to come to washington. so they lived in the boarding

and gained that fraternal bond and to come together. john marshall also wanted the justices to come together and speak in one voice to give the court some stature. clare: when they were eating in the boarding houses where they had a private room or with other guests? catherine: they probably shared some meals with other guests. but they met in private if they were talking about cases. clare: so they actually ate dinner and deliberated case that the same time? catherine: according to stories, that is the case. clare: so there was no conference room available to them at the court? what is the situation like in the capital? should have prefaced my remarks with that. when the court moved to washington there was the

presidents house, the capital, and even though we had a third branch of government there was no place for the supreme court to me. so graciously, a room was made in the basement of the capital but that was a small committee room. i think was 30 feet by 35 feet. way, the supreme court had their first chamber on the first floor of the capitol building. so that is the era when that john marshall comes to washington and leaves the court. great john marshall had a fondness for a fortified wine imported from the portuguese material. he was not alone. it was popular with many of the founding fathers including thomas jefferson. apparently the shaking and the funnel like conditions in the compact,ld david a

caramel flavor they like. catherine, tell us a little bit about john marshall and madeira. catherine: i think he gained his taste for madera in a richmond. pronounce it correctly, he was part of a club in richmond that was essentially a barbecue club for gentlemen and john marshall is one of the founding members and they had their own punch and madeira was one of the primary ingredients. sugar, and madeira was one of the primary ingredients. played a long game similar to horseshoes and through iran rings and one of the reasons playgot together was to this game and john marshall had a role that politics and religion were not to be

discussed and if they were caught discussing it they were fined a case of champagne which was consumed at the next meeting. [laughter] clare: and apparently you have bottles labeled that he brought? catherine: i think there were merchants who played on john madeira.s on this form and there was a supreme court labeled madeira which gave the seal of approval of john marshall that it must be good. marshall had a great ally on the was appointedho from massachusetts, john story. apparently he had a week stomach and was a teetotaler when he arrived in washington, d.c. that theto his wife justices tried really hard not to drink too much wine.

they had a role that only on rainy days and for medicinal purposes would they imbibe. at apparently this was not bright line rule. catherine: this is right. there are various versions. they only drink when it rained and d chief justice said, he looked out the window and the sun was shining brightly -- ruth there areburg: various versions. they only drink when it rained. the chief justice would look out the window and say, somewhere in the world it is raining. sarah and he were very close and she did not like him to be away so she decided she would come along.

and that may chief justice .arshall a rather uneasy he said, it would be all right if she dined with them. she would have a civilizing influence but she mustn't be around when they were discussing cases. not want to take away from the work they weren't to do. as it turned out, sarah's stomach was no better than joseph's and the boarding house fair did not agree with her. terme left before the ended. but it was the beginning of the end of the boarding house. justice or another decided, why should i have this when i can be living with my family? and, i think johnson left and another and another and it

happened when the orting house -- when living and dead the boarding house style of didng ended, john marshall their own opinion. five opinions and then they would figure out what the decision meant. john marshall thought it would be one opinion. they would speak for the court. there should be no dissent. the opinion.write it is remarkable that the early marshall court, almost all of the decisions are written by the chief justice. but when the boarding house down, sooke -- broke

did the -- clear there is evidence that the justices were proud of their hometowns. john marshall sent virginia ham to john story and john story reciprocated by sending shellfish caught. along with salted cod. you have to so good, he was not sure virginians would know what to do with it. my question is for both justices starting with justice ginsburg, are there examples of justices today on the court bringing food from their hometowns or back from their travels? >> we had in intrepid hunter on the court to would bring everything back from fish to fowl to wild boar.

: justiceotomayor breyer not so long ago decided he needed to introduce his grandchildren to game caught by colleague, pheasant, and presented it at home to his grandchildren but he said they had to be careful because there might be pellets in the game. to eat it so he ate it alone. ] aughter justice ginsburg: another favorite, beef jerky. it is made by sandra day o'connor's brother on the lazy b ranch, the family ranch. and a couple times a year she jerky andg in distributed.

clare: did you try it? sotomayor: it is spicy. justice ginsburg: yes, very spicy. clare: and i understand justice breyer brought wine? justice ginsburg: very special occasions. traditional dinner before the state of the union. one year, justice kennedy came with a bottle of wine from california. that was the first time -- [ indiscernible] ] aughter clare: justice sotomayor, i understand when you first joined the court you brought a treat

from new york for the other justices. justice sotomayor: i should not be telling tales, but the panelist with me and enjoyed suites. so i brought a box of new york pastries with me for our first conference together. i only learned later that hurt the treats she is most fond of is muffins. now we haveburg: our own pastry chef in the court. many justices have had food related traditions with their cords. henry blackmon had breakfast morning andks every the supreme court cafeteria. and chief justice warren burger, a great lover of food and wine and a good chef, would make beans soup for his clerks on saturdays. i have been trying to get an to berecipe but it seems

a little of this and a little of whatever was around but quite delicious. justices, do both you have particular food traditions with your clerks? justice ginsburg: lots of them. food. and so, i do. justice sotomayor: routinely on the weekends when the bagel shop was open, now it is closed and i am heartbroken, i would bring in angles on the weekend and cream cheese and we would eat fresh bagels. with my law clerks at home regularly. they come every couple months and their charge is to find a new delivery place that can deliver some food that is new for us. in my clerks manual

that one of their responsibilities during the year is to identify restaurants i have not eaten at. [laughter] it has sotomayor: expanded my knowledge of washington, d.c., restaurants. so yes, i guess my final food-related tradition with my clerks is when i travel, particularly a broadband anywhere in the united states that might be different than a local spot, i bring back chocolates from that place. or their traditional sweets. if you come to my office, almost candy. there is a very unusual thing for a diabetic, isn't it? i once had a child as me, how could a diabetic of candy and her office? and my response was, people like it and they come to talk to me more when they know there is candy in my office.

justice ginsburg: i think sometimes they make a detour just so i can come by. at halloween. clare: justice ginsburg, as you mention, getting back to the 19 werery, the justices bringing their families back to live in washington. they became part of washington society. were instrumental in helping the supreme court historical society get published the memoir of the wife of john marshall, who served on the supreme court 1877-1911. so, could you explain a little socialut the elaborate functions that supreme court wives had to undertake in that time?

say ae ginsburg: let me word about this. information to get for the supreme court historical society on the lives of supreme court wives. was precious little because most correspondents, the man's was saved and the woman's was not. the library congress found buried among the justices papers, a manuscript called "memories of a law life are co- and it is the story of a girl andgrew up in indianapolis she married john marshall from kentucky, a slave state. it is a remarkable book. to the historical

society, it is now out by random books.odern library one of the things she describes .s monday's the justices wives were expected to have 18 for anyone who will -- a tea party for whoever wanted to come. there could be 200 or even 300 people on a monday. they would serve scones and , sometimesandwiches they would hire musicians so the young people could dance. paid for bywas not the federal government. was private responsibility of the justices. and sometime in the course of the afternoon, the justice would come out for a 15 or 20 minute appearance. this went on for a long time.

>> until the great depression and did put an end to all of the sort of social traditions. very expensive for the families to bear the cost. justice ginsburg: but they continued to have come into my up i'm with the court, a ladies dining room. it got to be a little embarrassing. story of how we changed that -- the supreme court is a very tradition-bound leis. sandra o'connor and i thought, how should we suggest to the chief that the ladies dining room should be renamed? and she came up with a good idea? let's tell him we want to call natalie cornell rehnquist

dining room. his wife had died 10 years before. he was devoted to her. so we now have the natalie cornwell rehnquist dining room. clare: let's shift gears and talk about the lunch break. that ine, i understand the 19th century, oral arguments went on for a very long time and court sessions lasted from 11:00-5:00 and then they were shortened to 12:00-four: 30. what did the justices do about lunch? catherine:: believe it or not, while this was going on, one or two justices at a time would slip behind the bench and their messengers would set up tables and the justices would eat lunch behind the bench while the oral arguments were going on. you are sitting in

the courtroom listening to arguments, you cannot see the justices eating behind -- because they were behind the bench or a screen. but could you hear them? catherine: you could. much like we are raised in this room, the court was raised and there was an opening between the three center chairs. but there was a partition, said the justices would be seeded at these tables, you can hear the clatter of knives and forks and dishes and the messenger sometimes would bring meals from the senate restaurant and you might be wondering why i have this little prop here. there is a story that repeated that to one of the justices decided they wanted to have a theirof champagne it with lunch and as the messenger was trying to open the bottle, supposedly the cork flew out over the bench. and -- thee: wasn't some of

advocates concerned that there was not a quorum on the bench when a couple slipped away? catherine: there was. one instance where to did not attend because they were ill. and we would have one or two slipping behind the bench to have lunch. so is the story goes, an attorney asked the chief justice -- he paused and asked the chief justice, are we sure there is a quorum and at that time there was a quorum of six justices. and the chief justice at the time assured the attorney, even though you cannot see them, you can probably hear them in eating behind the bench. and asked the attorney to proceed. the lunchwhen did break first get inaugurated. catherine: i think it was a few weeks after that instance, in a half8 they initiated

an hour lunch break between 2:00-2:30. clare i have been researching a supreme court cookbook and i have heard so many instances of justices wringing their lunch and brown bagging it. why would they do that if they had a cafeteria? catherine: certain justices liked certain things for lunch. so that is one reason. also because of the timing. within that half an hour, it was not like justices could go have lunch at a restaurant. and there were times when the senate restaurant was closed. sometimes the senate was not in session. senate hadned the luncheonette counters not too far from the court. they kind of inherited space from the senate over time. they were close to the senate

restaurant. so sometimes food would be brought to them. in 1935 the supreme court got its own building and what were the facilities like? catherine: chief justice taft was in charge of the building commission and one of the requirements when they were finally able to get a home of there would not only be a cafeteria for the public and the attorneys because in that short window, the attorneys were also trying to go out and find something for lunch , there would be a cafeteria and the justices had their own separate dining room that had to accommodate at least 18 people and be in close proximity to the justices conference room. they half an hour lunch break lasted until 1970, when chief justice burger expanded it to an hour. ,o i am going to ask both

starting with justice ginsburg, so you know have a full hour. you have a beautiful dining room what goes on during the lunch do the justices all generally try to attend on days when the court is in session? justice ginsburg: i will defer to my colleague because she is a regular at the table. we can for the morning at 9:30 and by the lunch break, i will go with my colleagues to lunch. , when a justice comes to town or when john paul stevens is there. and for birthdays. and that is the most tradition. whenever a justice has a

birthday, the chief brings in some wine and we toast the birthday boy or girl and to , and weappy birthday are missing our chorus leader because we have been told most of them cannot carry a tune. >> i am one of them who cannot. and it is alarly wonderful experience. -- ice sotomayor: justice sotomayor: do i go regularly. we go after every conference day. ruth comes regularly to the lunch on conference days. there is generally at least five people attending. five of the nine justices. occasionally more. all of us have act of schedules so it is hard to make it even

or every lunch. but justices will come somewhat regularly on their own pattern of regularity. come whenrybody will some of our retired justices come for a visit. whether it is justice stevens or justice o'connor. what do we talk about. we have a rule similar to chief justice john marshall's role, which is we do not talk about it cases. they used to talk about cases we do not talk about cases. that is our role. there is no topic off limits but we try to avoid controversy and we are very guarded about raising topics we think might room. hostility in the

that does not mean we do not talk about politics, but it is might the great depth we do in the privacy of our homes, ok? but the most common conversation is about what book one of the justices is reading. justices are for asia's readers. we sometimes have conversations about interesting exhibits. i do not have to look them up. wait for someone to tell me they are gone and i figure which ones i want to go to. we will tell funny stories. someone will tell about an experience on a occasion or inexperience with a grandchild or child. type of just a normal

conversation that people have who want to get to know each other as individuals rather than justices. ginsburg: one topic i don't contribute to is sports and you don't either. i am sorryomayor: rose, you're right. little onted a baseball but the real sports person is elaina kagan. our calling. justice ginsburg: every once a while we would invite a guest to and live in the lunch table conversation. thinking back on past years, we , one fromustices south africa. one from india. we have had secretaries of state.

condoleezza rice was a lunch guest. of the zoo, which is the smithsonian institute. the head of the shakespeare the editor. the presidents of the working court of justice and the european court of human rights. we have had only two so far that have been repeat guest. alan greenspan and jim levinson, thenot so long ago headed world bank. the reason is those to have an uncanny ability to eat lunch and we shouldhe same time

start it up again. justice sotomayor: i was not dot of that tradition, but i know the justices ask fascinating guests to come join them and everyone's while we get a smaller group of justices together in someone's chambers to meet. ruth, i know i invited it you when we were celebrating the kennedy center honors. and steve has invited people from south africa. i have seen smaller of that type that do go on. >> speaking of lunch, i have been researching the lunch habits of various justices and they've fallen to two paradigms. healthy eaters like louis brandeis, who brought two pieces

of whole wheat red with fresh spinach in between. in on the other extreme you have -- a justice who was a gourmand. and winefrench cheeses and his wife would send in large platters of jesus his lunch. so justice ginsburg, where do you fall in that spectrum. how do you sustain yourself during the day. >> for 56 years i was married to shift supreme. my husband was a great cook. he was a big contributor to food at the court. he would make cakes on the

birthdays. and, there were days when we did outside food before the state of the union. withoperated sometimes others in making the state of the union dinner. clare: for those of you who do not know, those of you who are lucky enough -- justice ginsburg was married to a remarkable chef. i would like to get back to the i known about lunch, that you have been very open about managing diabetes since

childhood, how does that play you have lunches now? justice sotomayor: i would tend bruce does not vary her lunches -- that ruth ginsburg does not vary her lunches greatly. they are pretty simple. justice ginsburg: but my dinner's -- my husband died in 2010 and my daughter has taken on the responsibility of making sure her mother is properly nourished. it is only right because she baked me out of the kitchen at an early age when she learned the difference between mommy's cooking and daddies cooking. so now, she cooks and when there

is an overflow i bring it to the court. we usually do something nice together in the evening. justice sotomayor: i vary my lunch. i shop for myself every week. the day varies on the availability of time and i bring my food in and i have it put together so that i can experience something different every day. every once in a while i will order in. my favorite order in are two. one a local japanese sushi place. and another, a local indian place. but most of the time i do eat very healthly. i have a lot of salads. i love salads because you can vary them with the ingredients. so no two salads that i have are ever identical.

i have occasional sandwiches but i also like making sandwiches in interesting ways with healthy ingredients. so i'll put turkey or tuna fish or boiled eggs but then i'll put peppers on it. whatever suits my fancy. eat a lot of fruit salads because i vary those with the ypes of fruits that i eat. so to me eating is sacred. you should not waste a meal. [laughter] so it can be simple and healthy ut it has to be tasty. >> with respect to food it spans a wide range because in , very well prepared.

and one thing only for us, plain yogurt. no fruit. just plain yogurt. [laughter] justice sotomayor: i understand occasionally he had an apple. justice ginsburg: later in the day. [laughter] justice sotomayor: and he ate the core. by the way, justices do have different eating habits. a number of my colleagues order from our cafeteria. i dare say that the chief orders from the cafeteria and he has a salad generally brought up. justices kagan, thomas will vary their lunches.

justice kennedy, alito, bring food from home. sometimes i see sam's fare and i think, maybe i should eat dinner with him more often. as with justice kennedy because both of their spouses are wonderful cooks. me justices like justice stevens a cheese sandwich on white bread with the crust cut off. virtually every day that i sat with him for a year. and i understand and ruth can tell me because i didn't have the privilege of knowing his wife well. he was a wonderful cook. >> she was a dietician so was a very healthy food provider. there was a time when he was on a diet and he had a grapefruit cut in half. he ate both ends.

justice sotomayor: that was efore my time. >> i'd like to get back to martin ginsburg a little bit. justice ginsburg you were talking about the late 19th century and the role of the supreme court wives expected to play but your husband played an extremely important role internally at the court by being such a joyful participant in this bunchon held at the court four times a year. and are they pot luck? two or three of the spouses take the initiative to organize them? so my question to you, justice ginsburg, is do you remember your husband going off to his first spouse luncheon and what his impression was and what he made for that luncheon? justice ginsburg: he made veal tomato which was very popular.

it's in his book. but this book jeff supreme was conceived by martha ann alito. and she thought the perfect tribute to marty would be a cookbook. so this has some 30 odd of his well over 150 recipes he had on disc. the choices were initially made by martha ann but my daughter looked at the table of contents and she said, mother, those are not the recipes daddy would have picked. i said, all right. then you pick the recipes. and in the table of contents there's one recipe. jane's caesar salad so she contributed one of her own.

>> she was as good as her father i understand. i had one meal at her home in new york and the food was fantastic. justice ginsburg: she is very good. >> the tribute in the cookbook by the spouses are wonderful. i'd like to read a snippet from kathy douglas stone who was the widow of william o. douglas. this is what she wrote about martin ginsburg. he arrived dressed elegantly in a sports jacket with a handkerchief in his breast pocket. his smile gave the impression of perpetual amusement as though he had just heard some witty remark. he was soft spoken. aware that one aspect of a spouse's job is to bind in an institution defined by differences he seemed eager to do his part. we departed our lunches with marty feeling fulfilled and always closer to one another.

i think john marshall would have really, really enjoyed martin ginsburg. my question to you, justice ginsburg, is did he just love to share good food, or do you think he was aware of the sort of important service he was doing for the court in binding it together? justice ginsburg: oh, i'd say oth. his fondness for the kitchen i think began shortly after i made my first meal. [laughter] and he said he owes his skill to two women. first was his mother and second was his wife. i don't think he was being fair to his mother. but he was entirely accurate when it came to me. marty began cooking when he was

in service in oklahoma and i came back to give birth to james. cookbook, nt him a and said this will give you something to do while your wife is away. and so marty started on page ne, the basic stuff. he had been a chemistry major at cornell until golf practice interfered with the chemistry labs, so he treated this cook book like a chemistry book. he was the two years already quite a good cook. justice sotomayor: he was a fabulous baker. and made wonderful bread. justice ginsburg: yes. he said there wasn't a decent loaf of bread in the entire city of washington, d.c. so he ade his own bread.

clare: justice sotomayor, let's talk about your food traditions growing up. your mother in your autobiography "my beloved world" you write she cooked rice and beans. id you learn to cook growing up? justice sotomayor: i'm not a bad cook but i'm a horrible cook of puerto rican food. and i know why. because i tasted the best from my mother, my grandmother, my uncles, my father. i can't duplicate anything they make. so i really have lost heart and don't try. i am now trying to figure out how to make my mother's dish so every time i visit her in florida she still makes them for me. i dutifully watch. and they're never the same. for years i thought it had to do with the pan she was using.

or pans. because they had to have been seasoned in a particular way. so i've taken three of her pans over time. every once in a while when we're in the kitchen cooking with a new pan she'll look at me and say, i wonder what happened to the last pan? it disappeared shortly after the last visit. >> but it is not that. she is a traditional cook, which to me is someone who doesn't cook with recipes. and every meal she cooks tastes the same but is better because something has changed and improved. and so i don't think i'll ever duplicate her. but i do cook a lot of other things. >> we're almost out of time. i just wanted to get one last topic in and that is some of the other traditions of the court involving food.

since the 19th century there have been welcome and fare well dinners for justices when they arrive at the court. justice ginsburg, do you remember your welcome dinner in 1993? justice ginsburg: it was made for me by justice o'connor. and thanks to kathy fitz, i have the menu someplace here. hat that dinner was. >> hopefully the one where i didn't forget to put part of the ingredients in the e-mail i sent. >> yes. it was red leaf lettuce and chopped endives with heart of palm and artichoke burst and the salads and then you had put poached -- i said, i don't red ber this boiled with wine. was a pear poached in

zinfidel. she had entertainment from a group, what was the name of the group? >> the metro nomes. >> yes. we haven't been successful in locating that group but the next year i knew just what to o. dr. joanna breyer is the daughter of a wealthy retired someone n so i asked to take the gilbert & sullivan songs and make up lyrics that fit justice breyer and his wife. i think the best party that we had was the one when justice o'connor retired. she insisted that she didn't want to have any party.

judy 'tis suter came up with an idea he thought she couldn't resist. she could take any movie she would like to see and we'd watch it in the pickford theater and then we would have an appropriate dinner to go with the movie. well, the movie was red river with john wayne and montgomery cliff. it had every politically sexists thing in it, and rapists. and we had popcorn, each of us, and then we went to the library and we had a southwestern inner. >> justice sotomayor: well, our tradition on the court is that

the least junior justice will welcome the next incoming justice by arranging a welcoming dinner. and so mine was arranged by sam alito. there was a wonderful dinner. he had a classical guitar player playing spanish music, which was i thought beautiful and quite entertaining. justice year, when kagan came aboard i decided to call one of her friends from harvard and ask what they thought was her favorite food. the friend reported her favorite food was chinese. well, i had a problem, which is that justice stevens didn't eat chinese food. so i had to devise a menu that would satisfy him and also

satisfied her. so i worked very diligently with the caterer to come up with an asian flavored meal that everyone would like. i think that did turn out. but during the dinner at some point i explained to justice kagan what i had done and she said, who told you i liked chinese food? [laughter] and i told her the name of the person and she turned to me and said, i'm really grateful for your thoughtfulness, but, and i won't mention the person's name, that person likes chinese ood. at any rate, i still think she enjoyed the dinner. and there is a memento that is given or at least in the tradition that i've been a part of at the end of the dinner. a keepsake that is presented. at mine justice alito gave me a

bottle of wine with the picture of the supreme court and my name on it and the date. at justice kagan's i presented her with the chocolate gavel. i don't know how many of you remember that during her confirmation hearing there was a picture of her in high school in a robe with an over sized gavel in her hand. so in my welcoming remarks i gave -- i indicated that i thought the chocolate gavel was now well deserved. at any rate, the dinners are fun. a lot of the retired justices, and not all of them, sometimes return. and occasionally the spouses of deceased justices also come. justice ginsburg: we should mention the dinners after our music -- the court started having music house sometime in

the 1980's. it was begun by justice blackman and then when he retired justice o'connor took it on for about four or five years. and i've been doing it in the years since. the artist performs at 3:00 in after the noon and then special friends of the artist and special friends of music at the court have dinner together in the justice's dining room. we have had some pretty outstanding guests in the dining rooms going back three years, yoyo ma, and most ecently. >> i just have one more question. we have time? i'd like to ask each of the justices if you have the

opportunity to have a long, leisurely lunch, with two supreme court justices, no longer living, who would you hoose to break bread with? >> when you asked about this i think both of us said chief justice john marshall who made the court the institution that it has become. also, because i was so taken with the biography of marshall by gene edward smith. in college i had suffered of marshall ages multi volumes and not very interesting but the man comes alive in the gene edward smith biography, which i recommend to all of you. another possibility would be the first justice john marshall

holland. think of what his parents had in mind when they named their child after a great chief justice. because he was as i said before, a man who grew up in kentucky on a plantation with slaves and then he became, i suppose, best known for his dissent in plessy vs. ferguson but even before that in 1885 in the so-called civil rights cases he dissented when the court struck down a major case f reconstruction legislation for public accommodations. the law that gave people without regard to race access to places of public

accommodations. the court saying congress didn't have the authority to do that. nd he wrote a fine dissent very much like the later dissent in plessy vs. ferguson. i'd also like to have lunch with the discenter in the dread scott case. one of the two dissenters. justice sotomayor: i mentioned john marshall and i think justice ginsburg has explained and i think everyone knows his historical importance. but i started to think, what are the important ingredients of eating for me? and the first is good conversation. intellectual conversation. john marshall fills that bill. second, good food. and i would have wanted to have

harland there with his platter of french cheeses. [laughter] because i love good food. and cheese to boot. and then story telling. thurgood marshall, i understand, was a justice who . s on the court over 20 years and i am told by some of my colleagues that he never told a story twice. i would have loved to have been in conversation with him and hear some of his stories. so that would be the perfect dinner table for me. justice ginsburg: one justice as much as i admire him, i would not want him as my dinner partner and that was justice brand ayes. one of his friends reported that if you were were invited

to dinner at their home you ould eat before and after. >> i second that decision. >> we've covered a lot here tonight. before i close i just want to ask my three panelists is there anything else you'd like to bring up that we haven't talked about? what did we forget? >> i don't know. i have to look as well. >> i just think we should give clare a round of applause for putting this together. [applause] actually before we close i would like to put a pitch out to the audience tonight if any of you know of any recipes or anecdotes about supreme court justices and food please get in touch with me because i am

writing a cookbook. i would also send a plea to all of you to go to supreme court history.org where we have supporting materials about the event tonight. more information about a lot of the topics covered. we also have copies of chef supreme the martin ginsburg cookbook, the memoir, and justice sotomayor's splendid autobiography, "my beloved world." we have signed copies of that on our website supreme court history.org and we have some i think tonight in the hall. so now please join me in thanking our distinguished panelists for such a fascinating conversation. [applause] thank all for coming.

please remain seated as the panelists leave the stage. [applause] >> thank you, ladies and gentlemen. again, please, remain seated until the panel leaves the stage. >> on july first, 1976, the smithsonian national air and space museum opened its doors to the public with president gerald ford on hand for the dedication. friday marks the 40th anniversary of the museum and american history tv's live coverage starts at 6:00 p.m.

eastern on c-span 3. we'll tour the museum and see one of a kind aviation and space artifacts including the spirit of st. louis and the apollo lunar module plus live events at the front of the building. learn more as we talk with the museum director, the museum curator and the chair of the space history department. join the conversation as we'll be taking your phone calls, e-mails, and tweets. the 40th anniversary of the smithsonian national air and space museum live friday evening beginning at 6:00 eastern on c-span3's american istory tv. monday on the communicators texas republican congressman will hurd chair of the technology subcommittee talks about cyber and data security and federal government agency and the report card his subcommittee released in may on agencies' management of information joined by the politico cyber security reporter tim starks. >> it has almost 11,000 data

centers. facebook one of the biggest companies in the world has four. there is no reason that the federal government should have 11,000. you can realize savings. again, through the score card, four agencies have realized $2 billion worth of savings over the last two years by moving into the cloud. >> watch "the communicators" monday night at 8:00 eastern on -span 2. >> this weekend on the presidency understanding ronald reagan. james rosebush talks about the 40th president's personal life and personality. here is a preview. the day i was with him when he was going in for surgery. we didn't know at that day when we went into bethesda naval hospital. we thought it would be an out patient experience for him. in any case, decided to stay

the night and so the president asked me would i go back to the white house and get a change of clothes so when he came back the next day he'd have a different outfit. so i said, yeah. be happy to do anything that the president asked me to do. so i ran out, got in one of those small chrysler se dance that was part of the white house motor pool at the time. raced back to 1600 pennsylvania avenue. i went upstairs into the family quarters where hade been many times and i went to his closet. i had never been in his closet before but i passed it many times. it was in between the reagans' bedroom which you know by the way as an aside had hand painted bird wall paper. you know about this? the president used to say he'd sit in bed with a sling shot and try to hit the birds on the wall. that's pure reagan. so it was also pure nancy

reagan to have had the birds painted on the wall. right? so i go to the closet. which again is very different than nancy reagan's closet which was several rooms full of beautiful clothes. but in any case i just drew the doors back on this closet and i stand there and i think, okay. i've got it. figure out something to take him to wear. and it just hit me. this is a man of simple midwestern taste, not at all the way he was being portrayed in the media as a rich person's president, as a spend thrift. this and that. i thought, if only everyone ould see in this man's closet. it wasn't about clothes. it was what it stood for. the image. and seeing there was one black suit and one blue suit and one brown pair of shoes and so forth. one brown belt. one black belt. and i stood there and i thought, well, here is the president who has absolutely no

vanity. he has no sense of person. he is a very imperson person. he never sought accolades. he was completely guileless. he had no enemies. he saw no one as an enemy. he didn't have any acute sense of anger or need the kind of ped like to be in that is -- to be. that is what i thought, myself. program one entire the presidency, only on american history tv on c-span3. realize, this is something i would not only love to do, but could be different from the books written about macarthur in the past. and a way to reevaluate who this person was, what his real significance was, with his

virtues were that made him the regulated --nd figures in history and what were his flaws. the things that made him unpleasant or hated by many people. felloway night, senior arthur herman takes a look at douglas macarthur in his book, "douglas macarthur: american warrior." >> he saw the future clearly, more often than he saw the president. whether it was the rise in china, the split between china and the soviet union, which he foresaw, but perhaps too the fate of american domestic politics. >> sunday night on c-span's q & a. >> university of georgia professor