>> i don't think it would require -- affect your nutritional requirement over time. the long duration that altered atmosphere and the radiation , mighte did not mention substantially alter initiate requirement. >> apollo 11 astronaut and talked about the american presence in space from its earliest days to blue origin, a privately funded venture designed to make spaceflight more frequent and affordable. their conversation hosted by the smithsonian national air and space museum is moderated by david rubenstein, a billionaire philanthropist. >> good evening, ladies and gentlemen.

we not your typical and lecturer in 2004. they quickly became one of our most popular annual event. tonight is no exception. we will feature historic conversation between a legendary near and a visionary rocket entrepreneur. in addition to those lucky enough to have secured tickets, many more will be watching on a live webcast. which also will be in our archives. if you want to review it sometime in the future, senator glenn cannot be with us tonight. that he sent his best regards. his accompaniments are great inspiration for all of us. thank you to our speakers for being here. mr. david rubenstein. cofounder and co-ceo of the carlyle group. isff a sow's is -- bazos

founder of amazon and blue origins. generalome today, major michael collins. who once held what some have called the best job in the world. director of the smithsonian international space and air museum. welcome back. [applause] as the founding director, general collins was responsible for the design and construction of this building. open as a bicentennial gift for american people on july 1, 1976. visitors 327 million have walked through this building since it opened. which is why we are renovating it. [laughter] in confirming that the heat bills, leticia people to the moon, a priceless national

treasure. in two weeks, we will celebrate four decades of unparalleled success and rededicate our main gallery. that gallery, were so many millions discovered the story of light is one of the world's great public spaces. we have boeing to thank for helping us reinvented for the decades ahead. over many years, boeing has partnered with the smithsonian on callous important projects. -- countless important project. we would not be the museum we are today without their support. and ourf of the museum past, present, and future visitors, i would to think boeing for the steadfast support. forward to celebrating the company centennial anniversary along with our 40th anniversary along with our anniversary on

the first of july or we will have an all nighter. you are all invited. i disapproved that the first time, they came back and said you are not the target audience. [laughter] will get it started and i hope you have a great time. it is now a great pleasure to introduce the chairman, president and chief executive officer of the boeing company, nberg.nnis molle [applause] >> good evening. it is a pleasure to be here with all of you. kind thank you for that introduction and the kind words about the boeing company. we are honored to support and partner with you and the national air and space museum. it is it an portent emission.

thank you for your leadership and service for our country. let's give jack a well-deserved hand. [applause] as general daily said, this is an exciting year for us. the 40 anniversary of the national air and space museum. boeing will be celebrating its centennial. 100 years old on july 15. we will have the early celebration on july 1. one that has involved all aspects of air and space. we think about the first century of aviation, people went from walking on the earth to walking on the moon. we went from riding horses to flying airplanes and spaceships. it has been an incredible journey and boeing has been honored to be a part of that. tonight, it is my privilege to introduce the speaker's and moderator that will lead tonight's discussion of it i can type personally have a space

amhusiast, how excited i that this is the topic for tonight. i want to reckon as michael collins. it is a national hero with us tonight. son i told my 15-year-old that i was going to meet him this evening, he said, no way! [laughter] he has done a lot to inspire the country and i think we can all remember back to the apollo 11 mission, whether we thought real time or have seen it sense, -- since, the inspiration decorated and the long-term impact to the country and world is well recognized. it is great to have michael here with us tonight. the command module pilot for the apollo 11 mission. also, a great privilege for us to be with jeff bezos. one of the great entrepreneurs

of our time. great business leader in another space enthusiast and among other things, we have the privilege of working with jeff and his blue origins team on a future rocket engine and space opportunities. more broadly than that, jeff and his team are breaking barriers and low cost libel access. and fundamentally -- reliable access and funnily changing the equation of how we will get to space. thank you for your leadership. lastly, i would like to recognize david rubenstein as well. he has been a great friend and business leader, comanche leader, philanthropist. well known here. great and ofrian, the space business and also a great supporter of the national air and space museum.

david will be our moderator at this evening. i like to welcome all three of you gentlemen to the stage and we look forward to the discussion. [applause] my last duty here was to try to make this podium to send. -- descend.i'm an engineer by traits i think this is the real reason i am here today. technology.ng [applause] thank you very much. >> how many people here would like to go into space? how do people would like to go to the moon? you will hear a lot about that tonight. let me ask you each individual question.

michael collins, you were the first director of this museum. getting it off the ground and the money, was doing that harder than getting to the moon? ifi think it would have been they were not for barry goldwater wanted badly to get this museum underway. what he told me was if you are , pleasee with a kin mention that. i would be labeled to mention i'm here with my daughter kate chicago and from boston. she had been in neil armstrong's shoes, which he have said one small step for woman. she would have said, no, does this suit make me look fat?

maybe that is why she was not picked. jeff, you build one of the greatest technology companies in the world. he created a company from nothing to amazon. do than tryrder to to get a space company off the ground? >> totally different challenges. find, ihe things i think back on the last 20 years. 20 years ago, i was driving packages to the post office myself. day might be one able to afford a forklift. that is 1995. 21 years later, the internet is the gigantic thing, there are many successful companies. the ottoman errol -- entrepreneurial dynamism is

incredible. is put the to do heavy lifting infrastructure into place so that the next dynamic,n can have a ultra numeral explosion of ideas ofentrepreneurial explosion ideas. the reason you can't do that today is because there is too much heavy lifting involved. getting to is so expensive and so hard. when we started amazon, i did not have to build a logistics infrastructure system to deliver parcels. there was ups. doggie existed. the u.s. postal service already existed. i do not need to build a remote payment system. similarly, there were computers around. all of those things would have been hundreds of billions of dollars of infrastructure. the long-distance phone network became the background of the internet. -- backbone of the internet. you can have the explosion

because the heavy infrastructure was in place. for space, it is not like that. the price of admission is so high. i'm excited about lowering the cost. lowering the costs about 20 years from now, a new generation of people with startup money, real entrepreneurs can do amazing things and space. the cuckold that will be. be?hink how cool that would jobs now whoe day are trying to get to space. you have a day job. why don't people have full-time jobs getting into space? >> for one thing, it is expensive. you need a lucrative day job so you can afford your night job. [laughter] blue origin i think will be a profitable business one day. you want business to be itself

sustaining so they can do amazing things. but it needs a lot of funding it needs a lot of funding for a long time. i am happy to do that. i can only good because i was lucky with amazon. >> this is something that is hard to believe, he landed on the minute in july of 1969 and we will get into that in a moment, why do you think sony people in the world still think it was fake and in a studio? was there a studio he filmed? would love to get them all together into one room. the wright brothers flew in kitty hawk north carolina and it in the evening before, the 16, every year they had the meeting of the man will never fly society and when you're i was the guest speaker. one of the finest beaches i ever

made. i was forced to reveal that it if you drivee south out of kitty hawk. this gigantic sand dune. we found just on the other side of that. filmed just on the other side of that. [laughter] if you look at the unretouched not a graph but it has, you say crushed pack of marlboro's. in the heyday of the mercury and apollo program, everyone's attention was cap divided by -- captivated by. everybody wanted to be an astronaut. >> what you think the u.s. government has receded in its mission to go to the men? --

moon?where is the u.s. government ? for both of you. things,nk most especially in the world of economics are cyclical. to the crest of the wave in the latter days of the apollo program and that momentum was hard to keep going. i think we are in a time of hiatus. the focus should be on mars. i friend you armstrong was a far better engineer and i thought it off andhwhile to stop get a little more organized on the moon before heading on to mars. i disagree with that. i think we all to just go. be -- shoulda said be renamed then national

aeronautics and mars association. >> why do you think it is that the u.s. government has receded? some way to recapture the u.s. government interest? >> you think back to the heyday of the 1960's and the apollo excitement, myat gut instinct on this is that we as a civilization, we has humanity pulled them in landing way forward, out of sequence to where it actually should have been. it was a gigantic effort with ways, shouldny have been impossible. they pulled it off with barely any competition on power. slide rules. they cannot numerically model the computers. a lot of these important

processes a combustion inside a rocket engine, so hard today, but we can do it a little bit. did not have competition on fluid dynamics. everything done in a wind tunnel. nothing done on a computer. i think the reason we have taken because may be in part we pulled that forward to a time when it should have been impossible. wee it was done, i had to -- had to wait to let technology catch up. the reason all these companies today, margins, virgin galactic, spacex, the only reason we can do this kind of endeavor is because we are standing on the shoulders of nasa who invented all of this technology. we are still using all the things they invented back in the 60's. we have refined versions, but even the computer codes that were used to validate our designs has been honed and fine-tuned by nasa over decades.

i think we are finally, i believe, we are entering a new golden age of space and space exploration. the time has come for that to happen because we as a species have up level ourselves in terms of technology. we are ready to do it. it is amazing that we did it in 1969. >> let's suppose the next president of the united states, whoever is elected, cause you up and says i want to jumpstart the graham, give me some advice, what should i do? back to the moon, go to mars? michael, what would you say. ? >> i would probably be so nervous that i dropped the telephone. i never had the president of the united states asked me a question like that. others said earlier, i happen to believe mars. one of the wonderful things about the apollo program was

what john f. kennedy said, he was president and wanted a man on the man on the moon by the end of the decade. simple. you have questions about that? we all understood what we were supposed to do. we need something similar to that today. i don't know what that is. say, have every hope, i think mars is the focus. you need a lot of support from the president of the united states. you have to have the feeling that he is a man or woman that thinks about things, like the exploration, fix it is a worthwhile investment for the government and puts it pretty high on the priority list. regardless of you like, we have not had a personal involvement

since john f. kennedy. it was a wonderful help for us. there it is. you can write it on your thumbnail. off you go. ?> what would you do think big prizes would be an interesting thing to do. has on the darpa grand challenge is which kicked cars, nasa forg done detailed mars return mission. thencts mars samples and lift back off and goes to earth and bring some martian samples back. very expensive mission. very complex.

one thing that the government could do is offer a very large prize to have our first brings back some mars samples. it would be very interesting and that kind of horse race would create lots of attention. people would compete for it. end?nows how it would if nobody brings the samples back, they cost taxpayers nothing. it is an effective way to get a lot of interest and teams competing and try to come up with creative ways to do that. i also would advise that nasa needs to go after gigantic hard technology goals. an example would be in and space qualified nuclear reactor. for deep space missions. very difficult and challenging. not something the president would undertake any time soon. hard,r thing gigantic we

would be hypersonic point-point travel. nasa is not just about i think prizes and hard technology programs. >> either of you believe in ufos? roswell, new mexico? >> one of the horrible things is that word, ufo. anyone who has flown the night sky,r disk -- occasionally sees something. have i seen something, yes. do i think it was inhabited by little green men from far away, no. some lighting condition that calls that. but i'm not answering the question. on the backside of the moon, he did not say little men or

women -- you did not see the men or women? >> it was nice. i cannot hear mission control. -- could not hear mission control. >> believe there is life elsewhere in the galaxy? >> yes. but i don't think they have visited us and they are not conducting people. -- of ducting people. i think when they come, if they ever do, they will make themselves quite visible. >> how did you first get involved in the space program? you are a graduate of west point and a fighter pilot. how did you get selected? >> he just expended -- you just explained it. i was eight years old and looked into the night sky and said the moon is for me. i used to make model airplanes.

strong made model airplanes -- neil armstrong made model airplanes. mine would confuse me a little bit. my solution was to wind the rubber band a little bit more. neil build a wind tunnel -- built a wind tunnel. got into it step-by-step. . went to west point my father and my brother and uncle had all gone there. fundamentally, i went there because of the free education. then add a choice of army or air force. my uncle was army chief of staff and i was like, nepotism. snuck off to the air force. the choice was ply or don't lie. so fly. ones?es are little

big ones are better. fly the same ones over and over or the new ones? i wanted to defy the new ones. i was a test i would and nasa was looking for test pilots. >> when you finally got selected, did you ask, how did i get there or how did they get there? >> back up a bit. before there was a space program, the bureaucrats or whatever, the scientists, they all got together and try to figure out who did they want to hire? what kind of people? some of the proposals were bizarre. climbers who cannot breathe -- nothing climbers who are used to not being -- mountain climbers who were not used to breathing. or a scuba diver.

it is dangerous so we ought to get bullfighters. all these crazy ideas were compiled and put together in a paper to president eisenhower and he said, ok, has a graduate of an accredited test pilot school. for 12nasa is looking people in a year or so, they have over 18,000 applicants. if you say yet to be a graduate of a accredited test pilot school, that pulled insurance. i was fortunate to be one of two people considered. i would never make it today. >> how did you get interested in space? >> i became inspired when i was five years old watching apollo

11. moon and ito to the was, i could tell how excited everyone was around me. you don't choose your passions, your passions choose you. ever since i was five result, i have been thinking about rockets and rocket engines and spacecraft pre-much every day of my life. girlerybody as a boy or are adjusted in space but they don't go ahead and do the things you did, what prompted you after you started amazon to start a separate company and how much of your time to devote to it? >> i had been hoping to build a space company since i was a little kid. reality came into play and i realized it would be really expensive and then i kind of moved on and fell in love with computers and then i want this won thiscalled --

lottery called amazon.com and i realized i could do this dream. where up to about 700 people and we're building a suborbital tourism vehicle which competes with urgent galactic in our goal is to make it possible for anyone who wants to go to space to afford it. we will keep working epochal patiently until we achieve it. then we are building an orbital vehicle and we will fly that at the end of the decade for the first time. is that to dramatically lower the cost of space, it is about reusability. you have to make your vehicles usable. you can't throw them in the bottom of the ocean every time you are using them. >> would you go on one of these space trips? >> absolutely. i fully expect to go to space someday.

my family is on the front row. i'm telling them right now. they know. they know i can't be kept away. i will do it very safely. both muchel can be lower cost and much more reliable. i think reusability will add to reliability. fly anymuch rather boeing 787 after it has defined a little while, not the first flight out of the factory. build these space because, you can send them on test runs. their first mission is also there are last mission and that hobbles you in terms of making things safe and reliable. >> when you are selected to go anypollo 11, was there docking saying i would like to be the first man on the moon, i would like to be the second, i

would like to run command module? how did they decide who would do what? >> there was some small fuss before the flight and a large one after about who went first, but it seemed to me that neil armstrong should have gone first. he was a commander and that seemed more appropriate to >> i'm glad he did. amazing. at that time, there were 30 of us in the astronaut office in houston. there 30, there was one and 29 bear. considered thee single most important yardstick. a test pilot for nasa, he was

almost in a class by himself. wise, hesonality didn't get out in front of himself and solve the program but i think from a personality point, he was a superb choice. i think if you considered the positions on the crew and hierarchy to sort of person he ones. , it was a wonderful choice. host: you don't know if it's going to work. then having the lunar module go

, which was the most dangerous? going to thens: moon i always liken it to a daisy chain. you break one link. the rest of it doesn't matter. it was getting it out. ok.ought we would launch nice, dry sense of humor. he says no you can see the think the whole way. [laughter] those things i was not worried about.

i was worried about the ascent and the rendezvous. on redundancy, we had one engine bell. and then things got very complicated from my point of view. time andot off on precisely the right way, it was pretty simple. it gave me fits. sometime in my strategy, i would try to give down into a lower orbit. pointy got past a certain but once you go higher in slower , i had an extra book around my

neck. remember, there was 18 thing.ons on this the single-engine might've had a hiccup. obviously i could go down and land. short of that, i had a lot of ams of rescuing them but i not sure new all 18 of them. host: i'd -- you have written and said that the most dangerous was having to come back by yourself. michael: we never discussed

that. i would have been a marked person for the rest of my life. can you describe how difficult it is to get in on the rotation. the arithmetic says is you go a little steep, you burn out. afterl see you six months so those numbers are frightening. that was very primitive technology. of ibma whole basement 506 euros.

if we had one hit got off of our trajectory we had to make a correction. fortunately, we do not have to make many corrections but we had the capacity. that pastt exactly on . it used to pray every night that the mice didn't die. [laughter] with dozens ofup and we would to this day still be in quarantine. you are circling them in any of come all the way back,

you land in the water. why did you worry about drama -- dramamine. weren't you supposed to take it because it tilted so much? i lost a case of beer in the landing. i was the navigator coming back and he was the guy in charge of the parachute. the thing was as soon as you hit and pushing two circuit breakers. swiftly, weo that

would be caught by the wind and flipped over. then would we be upside down for . couple of hours he mustered up. -- messed it up. we went upside down for a wild. suppose someone wants to go in space, how much is the cost and how would they do it? we don't know yet what we are going to charge. virgin galactic is charging something like to interview thousand dollars per ticket. we are going to be in the same range since -- to start with. host: when will that be available?

2018.ezos: if the test program continues to go. if the test program continues to go well, we should be ready to in 2017.e on board can someone sign up now? jeff bezos: we are not taking deposits or anything yet. host: should they be physically fit? bef bezos: you don't need to physically fit. that will come later. we will have more details on what you really need. if you could write, you can do this. it doesn't require special physical fitness.

will you be able to order something on amazon from up there? [laughter] yes, but you won't be able to get it delivered. you will be able to go up and go back down. you are in zero gravity for approximately four minutes. we have the largest windows that will have ever been in space. ,eople will have been to space it does change you. you get to see it and the big blackness of space. i think people are going to be very excited about it. you have written that you wish all government leaders could go to outer space. you can see how fragile earth is. can you comment on that?

it waszos: --michael: kind of a surprise. i've seen them or were five windows in the command module. you look at window number one. everything is black. that is a very interesting starting point. sooner or later, you know it will pull into view and when it but it'sis very small

like a thumbnail. that is what you see. that is what it looks like from the man. thumbnail outmal in front of you. that is pretty small and we are in mostly ocean certain mostly see blue and clouds. you don't see land too much. the amount of semi that the moon -- birth reflects. somehow, this tiny sphere looks lovely and clean. it looks fragile, which it is. that was just my reaction.

it's a beautiful little thing. in the meantime, it looks so beautiful and fragile. you and two other men -- men went to the moon. that was an incredible bonding .xperience was the nature of the relationship between the three of you? michael: i love them both. i described the crew as amiable strangers. butd mean that in a bad way they workt crews, together as a team. we can have that bonding experience.

it's that was a little different is where the spacecraft is manufactured. i would be in downey, california worrying about the command module. i would almost call it freakish circumstances. been back on have earth for a wild. program, --e in the had stayed in the program, why did you choose to retire? host: it was more of a personal thing. was from boston.

houston was not her first choice of habitat. i would hope to do that. i thought it would be three years of simulators. i just felt for me, it was time to bail out. what is the most frequent

question you have been asked russian mark --? say that answer is carefully to how i went to the bathroom. i used to rate the food. the cream of chicken soup is a good. for a days, who cares? now you want to stay on the space station for a year with scott. been things like food and crew compatibility does matter.

recall sending next to john young. someone brought up how do i feel? what was facing us? for four days, i would fly with a baboon. [laughter] he knew exactly what i was coming from. the thing is, when you talk about mars. then you have all kinds of and other medical problems.

you're trying to get some people to go into space. you're trying to get sockets relaunched. while the government use that? who would use those rockets? jeff bezos: the idea is to build the infrastructure. it can be used for just about anything. you can use it for different missions. the goal is to build an orbital vehicle where the price of the put -- propellant actually matters. has ever cared about the cost of the fuel. reusability.

that is not even the peak. better at it but not appreciating the better. we need to be flying every day. when we are flying every day, we will get better. you support the idea of sending men and women to mars. why not send robots? jeff bezos: i think you can justify sending men to mars for science reasons. the reason you send people is it , it isuse it is so cool a glorious human adventure. we should do that. it does have to be done at a certain cost. we have a lot of other priorities.

i am excited for someone going to mars. i do think it will be glorious. that is not the motivator for me. the motivator is having millions of people living and working in space. the planet is fragile. hate that idea that we need a backup for earth. it is not motivating for me. be -- plan b is that plan a works. earth is the best planet. we've looked at them all and earth possessed one and we have to protect it. take baseline energy use on earth and just compounded at 3% a year. in a hundred years you will have to cover the entire surface of the earth in solar cells.

to build and newcivilization. we are going to remove heavy industry off earth. this glorioust jewel of a planet because it is unique in our solar system and we are unlikely to get to new solar systems any times in. host: do think it makes a difference that china is taking the lead on this. why not do it together? jeff bezos: if you are going to mars and put boots on mars. i think you would want to do that as a consortium with many nations.

if you're talking about space as we are incredibly dependent. our military is dependent on space assets. all of are gps guided. the product -- reconnaissance satellites. they give us great capabilities that they are also a full mobility. i think they should be done but when you're thinking about weional security mission, need to protect our mission in space. host: richard nixon greeted you but you were quarantined so he

couldn't talk to you. he said at the time this is the most important week since creation which you said in your book was a little bit exaggerated. you are very famous. the other two were very famous. you chose not to cash in. why did you try and not to make a lot of money from your fame? michael: i'm not against making money. all my life, that has never been my objective. i changed jobs, i looked for interesting jobs. i would have to make sneezes --

speeches. it would be like a bowl and i don't know who's out there. you did a sort of triathlon recently. your motivation in life now, what is it that you would like to have as your legacy? michael: i don't know about legacy. the training regimen is really tough. i have to swim one month of my backyard andund my bike in my garage. it's tough. [laughter] retiree, i live in florida and i have a lot of hobbies. i followed just on the stock market.

i read a lot. i have a lot of things going. two fantastic daughters. my legacy is sitting right there and there. anyways, i can't answer the question. host: do you have any regrets about career you've had? no, i'm very lucky to the alarm string born in 1930. you don't call that lucky? we were there in the right time. jeff, your blue horizon. blue origin. where did that income from? jeff bezos: earth is the blue planet. it is a great place to be from. host: is it for profit?

jeff bezos: not yet. it is what we would call investment mode right now. i think it is a possible company. i do not make a big list of all think what would have the highest investment in capital. i thinkg this because it is important that i do think it could be self sustaining business one day. could this be your greater legacy rather than amazon? when you're talking about professional endeavors, yes. i want on my tombstone to say, world's oldest man. [laughter]

if you're talking just about professional life, i think if -- couldn and enable .nable the next generation i would be so happy to look back on. of you are extraordinary americans who have done great things for our country. i want to thank you for everything you have done. if you want to worry about -- read this his trip, book. you should buy it on amazon. [laughter] thank you very much for an extraordinary evening. [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]

>> i want to thank our speakers. -- cynical rule about his critique of this theater. he designed and ok. thank you boeing for making this possible. thank you for coming out and supporting all of our programs. we really appreciate it. it would not be possible but without your support, it would also not worth doing. thank you very much and please exit by the rear of the theater and have a great evening. [applause]

collects you're watching american history tv. follow us on twitter. monday on the communicators, the senior vice president at verizon and the new head of public policy in washington. on the key issues and telecommunications. >> there are some characteristics of the spectrum that makes it complicated in that environment. there are some issues with that. complex engineering developments.

there is a way to kind of a just right that. watch the communicators monday night on c-span2. >> the primary season is over his conventions follow. watch c-span at the delegates consider the nomination of the first woman ever to head a major political party. and the first non-politician and several decades. watch live on c-span. get video on demand. allhave a front row seat beginning on monday, july 18.