>> see our upcoming schedule or watch a program. c-span.org/history. , carolures and history abouton teaches andersonville prison and the postwar trial of its commander henry wirz. the class is about an hour. welcome everyone today. ,e will talk about henry wirz the commandant of andersonville prison camp, which you may have

heard of. one of the most notorious sinner of war camps in the history of modern warfare. it was a confederate prison for union soldiers in the southwest of georgia. we will talk about hanging henry wirz. he was executed for perpetuating mistreatment and murder at that can. he was one of the first individuals in the modern era tried for war crimes. of 1865l in the fall set the precedent for more recent war crimes trials, the nuremberg trials of nazi perpetrators after world war ii, the allied prosecutors preparing for those prosecutions in nuremberg actually studied the

wirz trial and his defense so they could prepare for what they anticipated the nazi defense would be. they called it the wirz defense, basically i was only following orders. that was the typical defense. they used his trial to prepare for that in 1945. ins is an important moment world legal history. we are going to be thinking about the prison andersonville it self and what led conditions to be so horrible and what led to the catastrophic loss of life suffered there in 1864. it differed from other pow camps.

it was not the only one by a longshot. they were all pretty horrible. we will think about what made andersonville different. finally we want to think about whether or not henry wirz was in fact guilty of war crimes, and did he deserve the punishment he received? hishe deserve to die for events -- for the events? our terms and concept, henry wirz, the prisoner exchange. we will revisit a topic we have talked about several times, the labor code -- the weaver code. who was henry wirz? he was a native of switzerland who immigrated to the united states. no one is sure when. 48'er, ahave been a

refugee from the revolutions of western europe around 1848. it is possible he could immigrated around that time. we don't know much about his life prior to his arrival in the united states. he never spoke publicly about his life. he wrote a letter on wirz's behalf, he said he came from a from ackground, and came respectable family. we really don't know a lot about him. he never spoke publicly about his life in europe. once he arrived in the united he marries a fairly

wealthy widow from kentucky. he settled in kentucky for a while before moving to louisiana. once in louisiana he set up a medical practice. there is no evidence he received medical training although he said he always wanted to be a doctor. his father pushed him into business. louisiana, wirz sets up a medical practice. that really wasn't uncommon. apprentice with a practicing physician then go out on your own. there were medical colleges where you could get degrees but it wasn't required you had formal medical training to practice as a physician.

in the years leading up to the civil war he is a country doctor in rural louisiana. when the war breaks out, like dr. patriotic southern men, wirz enlists with that are -- better it horses. confederate forces. he loses all use of his right arm. he is cited for bravery, and promoted to the rank of captain. after he recovers from his wound, because he speaks fluent french and german, he is sent on special missions to europe to get those european nations to support the confederacy and come out on the side of the south. .e spends 1863 in europe

he's on a diplomatic chore for the confederacy. when he returns to the south in 1860 or -- 1864, he is given the job of being the commandant of this new prison camp being built in southwest georgia, known as andersonville prison. wirz probably would think this is a good way to sit out the rest of the war. his life is not going to be at risk. this is a good job for someone who cannot use his arm anymore. he is impaired. he will get to live with his family. his wife and children will live nearby. all in all this is not bad. he doesn't know the situation

that is going to be facing him once he arrives at what is officially known as camp sumter. camp sumter is near the nearest depot. railroad sumter was built in early 1864. i use the term loosely. as you can see from this, there is not a lot of holding in camp sumter. most of the men you can see here, prisoners are living in tents and makeshift accommodations. it was the maximum capacity that this prison could hold. it was 27 acres. you can see here from the

--wings it was rounded bounded by a high stockade fence that goes around the perimeter. there is a creek that actually runs here under the stockade's through the middle of the camp. there is a freshwater supply for the men. as you can imagine the further , the worsek flows the quality of the water gets. underart here that flows the stockade fence is the most sought after water in the camp. on toptop of the fence,

of the stockade's, what was known as a pigeon room where the guard sat with their rifles. tell there are many more prisoners than there are guards. that is why they are spaced out like they are on top of the fence. this running along the bottom, this is the latrine also known as the sink. you can see the individuals using the toilets there that stretch the links of one side. another thing i want to point longo you, you can see a low railing, a piece of wood

the length. there is a space between this low railing in the stockade. you can see the space along the edge of the fence devoid of people. that you can see here as well. the was known as deadline. to be shot inle the deadline was there to keep prisoners back, to keep them from rushing toward the fence, climbing the fence or starting any kind of mutiny or move to overthrow the guards. manguards did in fact shoot

when they attempted to cross the deadline. who is an illustration claim that they witnessed a union soldier trying to reach over the deadline with a cup to get that fresher water. some of that water flowing into the camp, he is trying to reach over the deadline to dip his cup in the freshwater and he is shot for reaching over the deadline. this is not a pleasant place to be. 1864 through the had time in which the camp october inmates until

1864, the camp which was meant hasouse 10,000 pows anywhere between 20 and 40,000 pows during that time. the peak months but the .opulation was august it is overcrowded. outistorians have pointed that population tended to fluctuate dramatically. it has between 20 and 30,000 prisoners in it. the 14 monthuring existence of this camp, it probably had less than the that witt10,000 pows was supposed to in the first place. there is a lot of movement in and out of the camp.

they are being transferred to other confederate prisons and of course men are dying all of the time. these conditions, especially overcrowding, the putrid water breeding disease and mosquitoes, men are suffering from dysentery , gangrene, pneumonia, malia malnutrition in the exposure. exposure.ition, and they have little adequate shelter. peak by the early fall of between00 men died august and october of 1864.

13,000 soldiers died in its entire existence. a death rate of 45% of the total population, extremely high. there is a national cemetery which now exists at andersonville if you are in the vicinity. most of the soldiers buried there have been identified positively. several hundred remain unknown at the cemetery. another notorious facet of andersonville prison, the andersonville layers. these were gangs of inmates who were armed with clubs and knives and various instruments.

the inmates in the camp. they rob people of their personal property and they were reported to have beaten and killed inmates in the attempt to rob them. things get so bad that a group prisoners organize themselves into a police force and capture several dozen of the raiders and have an actual trial. they put six liters on trial area as you can see -- on trial. up withan see, they end the permission of henry wirz, and some of his superiors, they get permission to hold this trial and they execute, they ringleaders ofse

these writers -- raiders. one of the most notorious moments in andersonville's history. these men are living in within the camp must suffering from disease, malnutrition, mistreatment from the authorities, they are also at risk from each other. for people who would take it then edge to better their own .ituation it really was a horrible place. if you havehings done reading or heard about andersonville, some people will say andersonville was no worse than any other prisoner of war camp. some the most notorious uw camps

-- p.o.w. camps in the north. was a large prisoner of war camp at elmira. there was one outside of chicago . was nonville wa worse than these prison. i take issue with that area here is the evening rollcall. looking at this image you can tell why you read there was a difference between the conditions of andersonville, if , and whatk and look you see at elmira. there are more built structures for prisoners to stay in. suffers fromira

the same overcrowding. there are more prisoners then they could properly house. you can see they set up tents. rather thanin tents actual housing. me, this image looks nothing like the images you see from andersonville, which is not to say that was a great place to be . no prisoner of war camp is a great place to be in any war. a winter in spend upstate new york sleeping in a tent? it is brutally cold. the death rate at l myra -- hellmira byn as

those imprisoned there, the death rate was around 25% compared to 45% at andersonville . i'm not trying to diminish it but it is still incredibly high. soldiers atrate elmira died there. 12,000 total. they suffered largely from the same kind of ailments the union soldiers at andersonville did. food, exposure. pneumonia, outbreaks of diseases like influenza and smallpox, dysentery. there was a problem with drainage and puget water -- putrid water that spread sickness and disease.

of thet think differences between elmira and andersonville in terms of kind but of scale. a scale of sickness and is notwding in elmira the scale we see at andersonville. there is a national cemetery at elmira, and a monument to the confederate soldiers who died. cam douglas was in chicago. it was initially used as a trading camp. on camp douglas becomes one of the first union p.o.w. camps for confederate prisoners. they are housing confederate prisoners there.

are far morehere soldiers in 1864 than the camp can accommodate. they suffer from the same kinds of problems. rate at camp douglas is summer between 17 and 23%. there is some discrepancy with how many soldiers died there. a mass grave in chicago monumentording to the there are 6000 confederate soldiers buried under the ground. listcamp records only 4000. 200 -- 200000 to

unaccounted for people. again from the same kinds of atditions soldiers died of elmira and andersonville. it is incredibly cold in the winter. i would not want to sleep in a tent in the lakes of lake michigan. it would not be fun. aree camps, none of them anyplace anyone would want to be. they are brutal conditions. they are bare-bones. a lot of the men arriving at these camps were already wounded or sick. if your immune system is compromised, this exposure and lack of proper food is only

going to contribute to your decline. they are not places where one goes to be healthy and well. they are in a sense where men went to died. some people who talk about and write about these prisoner of war camps will say the conditions in places like e becausehey were as bad the union was retaliating theirt the treatment soldiers were receiving an confederate camps like andersonville. anecdotesome loose evidence to suggest the men running these camps are not

particularlye energetic or speedy in providing confederate pows with the kinds of things they need. was oneance, there superintendent of camp douglas who it appears replaced all the wood burning stoves in the barracks with boilers that did not produce according to the men who live there as much heat as a wood burning stove did. say they didill that on purpose. because union soldiers were suffering from the cold and deprivation. they were trying to pay back the confederate pows for that. there is not hard evidence to policy there was a union

. if we remember, we go back to the lieber code, one of the articles of the code, the code , and allowed for prisoners of war to be subject to the infliction of retaliatory measures. lincoln's retaliatory order that he issued when the confederate said any black soldier or white

commander of a black troop were caught will not be given quarter. they will not be treated as prisoners of war. they will be subject to be sold into slavery or executed. lincoln issues what is known as his retaliation order. he says for every black soldier or white officer that is executed we will execute one confederate prisoner of war. knowledge they never did that. that never happened. i could be wrong. i've never seen evidence of that. it is entirely possible. it was a threat, a retaliation order and is according to lieber

permissible to do that during war. this is one of these, even as we get to in just a second the lieber code expressed prohibitions against the mistreatment of prisoners of war, this is one of those gray areas that although you are not supposed to mistreat prisoners, you are supposed to be them and give them medical care, you are not supposed to mistreat them in liable, they are still to this retaliatory measure. another criticism or question that some people will raise

about william sherman, if he could have liberated andersonville and why didn't he? this is a map of georgia. this is the town that represents america's georgia, a town there he near where andersonville was. if you recall in september of 1864, atlanta falls to sherman's army. plans,aying out his planning the march to the sea which will take them to savannah. he doesn't go in the direction of sumter. but could he have done so? certainly sherman and folks know about andersonville. they knew rings were pretty bad.

a bad assumption to think sherman could have reasonably done anything to alleviate the suffering. by that time the vast majority of the men who died at andersonville have already died. by the time sherman does begin his march out of atlanta toward savannah, the population of andersonville prison has fallen to 1500 men. once the city of atlanta falls confederate officials, because it is so close, they begin moving prisoners out to other prison camps and transport them

to the carolinas. they don't want them to escape. they don't want them to be liberated. a lot of the men have died. it would have been 1500 men are so left at andersonville at that time. sherman knows this. he realizes this. consider theally possibility of veering off course or sending some men that way because we talked about his march, he is focused on what is ahead of him, getting to the sea, and bringing the war to an end closer. the idea that sherman could have averted the horrors of or alleviated suffering, i don't think it would have made much of a

difference by that point. were these prisons, not only andersonville but the northern ones, why were they overcrowded? that is the key question understand about why things were so bad at andersonville. the collapseo with of the prisoner exchange system. the prisoner -- when the war began it is convention to have a prisoner exchange among officers and for larger groups. there was a formal exchange. we have a group of our guys. they simply exchange them and would go back to fight, although they weren't supposed to.

you are taking men out of your fighting force to work as guards and policeman. it is not ideal to have large pows.s of io w's -- that is the way things were up until the army starts in listing black soldiers. the confederacy refuses to exchange any captured black soldiers. because they refuse to exchange black soldiers lincoln brings the prisoner exchange to a halt. he issues a command to all military officers that they are so to exchange any prisoners

long as the confederacy refuses to exchange african-american prisoners. a lot of critics will use this quotation and say that he allowed these men to suffer and die in andersonville. it was not his policy or the policy of the president. he approach robert e. lee aseral times throughout 1864 the population of prisoners are growing and growing. he approaches him about the reinstatement of the exchange. let's reinstate the prisoner exchange. i do not havese

the authority to exchange black listeners. the confederate government refuse to exchange them. they both agree as long as the confederacy refuse to exchange black prisoners they can't in good faith participate in the exchange at all. a lot of the men who are sitting in these conditions in andersonville don't care. they want the exchange to get moving again. they want to go home. they are dying there. grant and lincoln agree that they have asked african-american die onfight and to behalf of a country that until that point had not given them much reason to do so. point several hundred thousand african-americans by have foughtd will

for the union army. they cannot say we will exchange the white soldiers and you can keep black soldiers. it is terrible for the morale. how can you expect more african-americans to join the fight if they know that their commanders and country think so little of them? sticking point morally for lincoln and grant and they refuse to exchange any prisoners if the confederacy will not exchange like prisoners as well. -- black listeners as well. grant is right. he says it is hard on our men to be southern prisoners but when we start releasing confederate prisoners they are going to go back into their ranks and start fighting again.

matter ofgrant, not a trying to outlast the confederate supply of manpower. it is more complicated. there is a serious moral imperative at stake for grant and lincoln regarding the exchange of black soldiers with white ones. it is important if they were to understand why the population of grow soisons astronomically, why conditions get so out of hand. it is not a case of saying the government let this happen. lincoln and grant felt like they were not in a position to do otherwise. so.

never expected to be put on trial for war crimes. the idea of war crimes comes into being through his trial. he is kind of the first person charged with this. in another piece of evidence that suggests he didn't imagine he was going to be held accountable or prosecuted for what happened at andersonville, when the war is over he goes to his house, next to the and he stays there. they are goingct to hold him accountable for that. he is arrested and taken to washington d c. yeare fall of that beginning in august he is put on trial.

like not a civilian trial trial of the lincoln conspirators. it is conducted by a military tribunal. that was controversial. people thought the lincoln conspirators and wirz should have been tried by a civilian court. the army and federal government thought this is, even though isce has been declared, this part of the war itself. -- they sawto hold with the conspirators had done as an extension of the confederate war effort and likewise they were holding wirz to trial for his wartime actions. that is how they justify a

military tribunal. militaryed by a commission. the government hopes to prove --t they are trying to do they want to hold someone accountable. they intend to lay the groundwork for future trials. they believe that -- they want inprove there was a broader spirit see among these confederate officials to deprive and tooldiers of life

act eventually and maliciously against them. that is what they are hoping to do with this trial. is charge not simply with supervisor orent superintendent. he is charged with maliciously knowing all of the mistreatment and abuse that is going on, allowing it to happen, but in 13 cases he has been charged with committing murder by his own hand. he is charged with 13 counts of murder he committed personally. he was charged with shooting with his revolver prisoners. he was charged with one count of

stomping a prisoner to death. he was charged with allowing dogs to mull prisoners who escaped or attempted to escape. he was charged with trying to guard tors to the shoot men. there was not a lot in the way of direct eyewitness testimony wirz had done any of these things. most evidence amounted to hearsay. someone told me that they heard someone say wirz had shot someone. there was not a lot in the way of direct testimony. hearsay is not admissible.

the evidence is much looser than what would -- much less stringent than a civilian court. some people advocating for him said this isn't right. tribunal, it be easy to railroad someone if that is what you had in mind. thing a fewe same years about her trial by a military commission earlier that year. move to controversial try him before a military tribunal. the commission saw photographic evidence like this. these are photographs taken of andersonville survivors. once they are presented with this evidence, that is hard to

deny. men who survived andersonville left looking like this. they are skeletons. severely emaciated. many of those who were liberated did not live as they were too far gone already. this was very powerful evidence against henry wirz. how can he explain this? to thetors would point labor code which we have studied about how prisoners of war are not supposed to be mistreated, star, given adequate food. they are not supposed to be mutilated. they are supposed to be given medical treatment where it is possible. was act that wirz

physician, several people pointed out he knew that. he was a doctor. you should have known these men were so ill and done more to provide them with care. and medicine. what is wirz's defense? for the charges he had his own hand murdered prisoners, he flat-out denied it. he said there's no way. i did not kill anyone. conditions at the prison he said i did the best with what i had. because was overcrowded the prisoner exchange collapse. the confederacy didn't have money to read its own soldiers

or provisions or resources. how was i supposed to take care of these inmates i had when i had nothing to that -- feed them with? i would have given the medicine if i had medicine to give them. i had nothing to work with. confederacy was collapsing. he said what could i do? i can only work with what i have and i told my superiors in richmond i needed help. they said there was no help. what could i do? i was given this job. , ias doing the best i could was just following orders. that was not good enough. military commission found him guilty. 10th, he was executed in the same prison yard

mary surratt and lincoln conspirators were executed the previous july area this is a picture moments after he drops through the scaffolding. buried in the same cemetery as mary sirotka -- surratt in washington, d.c.. they put a small marker on his hero, marder.rate rtyr.rc how should we remember henry wirz? should we think of him as a martyr? i'm confused by that. to what?

it is also i admit difficult for me to think about him as someone intentionally inflicted cruelty and suffering on those men at andersonville. the evidence against him for having perpetuated, having killed people is sketchy. i don't think it would hold up in a civilian court of law. if we discount that, do we hold him or should we hold him responsible in some way for terrible conditions? for the 45% death rate, the -- perishedarassed at andersonville? was ultimately responsible?

you read today an account of andersonville prison by a survivor, a diary he kept. one thing that stands out about his account is wirz doesn't appear very often you read there is not a lot of wirz. he doesn't see wirz a lot. is of the things he says that he was sick himself and confined. he wasn't circulating, killing ,risoners, kicking prisoners sicking dogs on prisoners. he said i wasn't even around a lot read in the diary he doesn't talk about wirz very much. he has much harsher critics as davis he saysson

the confederate government didn't do its job. sweat the conditions are so bad. jeff davis doesn't care. he doesn't care what is happening to these prisoners at these camps. it is a quandary. war, andout of civil it is one that is applicable to warfare in general. not just the civil war but wars previous and ones going on today as well. are there any questions? about henry wirz and andersonville? bywho made the decision trying somebody for a military tribunal instead of a civilian court? prof. emberton: the reason that decision was made at the time

the events had happened during the war. as anave been acting emissary or a person of the confederate army and these were part of war duties. the army pretty much decided this is a wartime issue. military decided by a commission rather than civilian court. any other questions? ever ask the confederate government for better -- where their letters were documents? prof. emberton: did wirz ever ask for help? yes, he did. there are c sent to his ,uperiors and said i need food

i need medicine. they said we don't have any. there is evidence he did try to get assistance and there was no assistance forthcoming. largely he was right. it confederacy didn't have at that time. mind that that, to my is a legitimate argument he made. that is not him simply trying to get out of responsive elegy. -- responsibility. what would i have done in that situation? it could be at the end of the day henry wirz is one of those shoeul figures who had the been on the other foot, had the won and the union

lost, with the superintendent of elmira been held accountable in the way wirz was. winners get to decide the terms of peace after a war is over. any other questions? , was thereody else an attempt told anyone else accountable? prof. emberton: for andersonville, no. they hoped his trial would be the first of several. they wanted to bring jefferson davis and high-ranking confederate leaders, the men who had instigated and encouraged the session. they wanted to bring them to trial for treason. jefferson davis is indicted and held on the indictment for nearly two years before he is

finally released because government prosecutors can't come to a consensus about whether or not he is guilty of treason, and if they could get a conviction for him for that. is the only confederate official held accountable for andersonville, but really for what happened 1861 to 1865. then. an ongoing question what should be done? should they be punished, so butd, people in 1865. many others who thought no, the best way to move a word to bring the country back together is to vengeance ornd of

dramatic punishments, and tried to move forward from that. we will talk about reconstruction next. there were some legal limitations for punishments for x confederates. many argue today they were very strict and harsh enough. yes? [inaudible] prof. emberton: right. mentioned atas i the beginning of the lecture becomes a precedent for what happens at nuremberg and the training century -- 20th century

when you have war crimes trials. they go back and try to find where has this happened before, what is the precedent? they studied the trial, the whatcripts to anticipate the defense of the nuremberg na zis is going to be and how they are going to counter that. how do you prepare for the defense that i wasn't personally responsible, i was following orders, the main line of defense of the nazi officials at nuremberg. wirz is an important case for them setting the president of how to prosecute these kinds of cases when they occur in the 20th century. yes? >> did wirz have legal representation? prof. emberton: he did.

he had a couple of different lawyers. they were private lawyers who represented him. i cannot think of their names he the top of my head but did have legal representation and was entitled to that. you were still entitled to that. he had clergymen and other people who came out in support timem, other folks at the prominent in anti-capital punishment, anti-death penalty movements came out against his execution. should be imprisoned but not executed. it's too great a punishment for him. johnson coulddrew have pardoned him but he chose not to because the public outcry against what had happened at

andersonville was so great that i am sure johnson thought it wasn't going to be politically expedient to pardon this particular person. wasfact that wirz foreign-born, he's not an american by birth. he is often misidentified as german. you have to wonder what role that way and him being found guilty as well, being held accountable, held up as an all. -- an example. didn't matter that he was foreign-born, did that make a difference? who is to say. thank you guys very much. see you friday. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016] >> join us every saturday as we

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