broad. i agree with steven in that i think the mechanisms of state through the bureaucracy i think are in for some tough times because things will completely start to slow down. not only do you have what's going on, people who are suspected of being implicated in this, losing their jobs or at least being asked to resign or put on forced suspension, for those that remain, there's also a chilling effect in place about how do you operate within a system that's under a lot of pressure and where everybody is sort of under suspicion for were you or were you not in favor of what took place last week. so when you build on the sort of syrian refugee issue, at the time, public opinion polls put it i think at over 85% of turks who said absolutely not to this. but we all believed sort of the power of erdogan to rally his supporters could push it over the goal line. at least in the ways it was being advertised.

small number, high level of education for syrians. if we are reliant on erdogan to push it over the goal line, which i think we all are, he has a lot of other stuff on his mind at the moment. so i think a lot of these issues up and down the turkish bureaucracy, because of the centralized decision making that was already in place, will be pushed. so a lot of these things will lose importance as the country begins to deal with the fallout after last saturday. maybe you can introduce yourself as well. i forgot to make that announcement. >> hi. my name is martin. i am from the school of advanced international studies. my question is, so in the past couple of days we've seen -- we've read at least about the purges that you talked about. i mean they are really disheartening and thousands of coup prisoners are being raped, as amnesty international reported. just today i saw that something

like 60 children, like 14-year-old children are being imprisoned and being denied access to talk to their parents. et cetera, et cetera. so i guess my question is, can the european union, can the eu, or washington, or the united states, do something to actually kind of -- i guess do they have some leverage to make -- to like change this thing and how are they going to respond to all of this? >> yeah. i mean they can do something. will they is another -- >> so what can they do? >> well, they can, you know, talk to turkey about the blatant violations of human rights, not upholding rule of law, silencing journalists, unjustly jailing people. but there's also a lot of domestic politics involved in this. i think it is a question of whether they will. i have very serious doubts. steven talked about the migration deal that brussels

struck with ankara. and essentially europe don't want the migrants. and this gives ankara and erdogan leverage. and certainly in an election year, i highly doubt that washington is going to be in a position to start wagging its finger and doing anything to turkey on any of these issues. >> let me just say that there's all kinds of reports that are coming out of turkey, both in favor of and against this group or that group. we need to handle these things with a lot of care. as i said when it comes to pointing fingers at the coup plotters, let's produce clear and convincing evidence of who is culpable, in the same way that these reports about rape and children being held, these things need to be verified. i'm not saying that they haven't happened, but these are things that i think in this very unsettled environment, very contentious environment, people want to use against each other. so let's step back and make sure

that these things are actually happening. all that is a way of saying, though, that if things like this are happening, if human rights violations are happening, people are being jailed unjustly. people are being purged. what is it that the united states can do. first, this administration has for a variety of reasons that are important to them preferred to handle their criticism of the turkish government in a private manner. from their perspective, this has worked for them in the past, and has set the relationship -- made a better tone for the relationship. one will expect that they will continue to do that. secondly, let's also understand that to the extent that the turk irk government, the turkish leader, opponents of president erdogan define the current struggle in turkey in existential terms. there's very little -- any outside power, no matter how prestigious, prestigious the office of the president of the united states can do to alter

their interest and their calculations because they believe they are fighting for their lives. fourth -- maybe it is three -- maybe it is d. the turks have leverage over us. like i said before, incirlik is important to operations against the islamic state. of course before they give us permission to use it, in the way we're now using it. we were able to drop bombs on isis positions. however, it is an extraordinary asset, and it is subject to their approval the way we use it. and i think that in the broad scheme of things, when we are thinking about what has been termed as kind after generational struggle against the extremism and world view that the islamic state represents, it's unlikely that the u.s. government is going to want to take steps that's going to risk an asset like the incirlik airbase. that doesn't mean it doesn't rankle people that the turks have been implying that, it is a chip that they can use against the united states.

it doesn't diminish the fact that the turks have been largely irresponsible in fingering the united states for this. but that's the current situation. and it makes it extraordinary difficult for the united states to take the kind of action that i think people would like, and quite frankly, based on reports that, to my mind, have yet to be verified. >> tom olson. can we talk a little bit more about hismit. i read somewhere they have 150 schools in the united states. is that accurate? >> that sounds right. they also had a cultural event at the dar a few months ago which they seemed to have every year somewhere and they brought it back to the united states. and they bring all the

countries -- of think it is called the turkik alliance, all those countries that are turkik from the old soviet union. and they have schools in those countries. to this event which i happened to go to, they brought a number of american congressmen who talked about how erdogan was not a very nice guy and how the u.s. ought to support the hizmet movement. so they're political, they have a lot of schools. my question is how do they fan all this stuff? >> that's a good question. lot of people want to know that. >> in part, through these schools. >> yeah. >> in part, through these schools. they're charter schools. they're not just in the united states. they're all over the former soviet union. >> balkans. >> this is actually the genesis of -- part of the genesis of the falling out.

when the fallout began, erdogan sought to close schools within turkey which was intended to hit the gulen movement where it hurts -- in the wallet. the gulen movement has been quite active here in washington, d.c. as are -- as has been the akp, and other turkish groups. i always joke that it's amazing to me that the turks play out their domestic political dramas here in washington, d.c. somehow believing that we have a decisive impact on what's going on in turkey. i think the events of the last week are clear that we don't. let me underline once again that to the extent that all of these different groups have defined the struggle in the highest stakes, where the united states government, congressmen who may not like erdogan are going to

have very little impact on what happens in turkey. >> yeah. i have to say, i think people make a little bit too much about hizmet and the gulen movement. people in turkey want some social outlet and they want social progress. and i think hizmet offers one element of that. but i also think that within turkey, people are just looking for that and they are looking for the opportunity to advance themselves. i think when we break it down in to gulenists or akp or any of these prisms, it is not very helpful because i think turkey's a much more society than that. i think we're giving too much credit to the gulenists. i actually -- do they play a role in turkish politics? absolutely. but to the extent that turkey's a country of 80 million people, and it has so many different -- it has so many different factors in it that -- i think the fear

that we have of the gulen and the hizmet movement is a little bit overblown. >> thank you. i'd like to ask, back when erdogan was first running for re-election an playing the muslim heartland card, people, boomers and millennials in istanbul would go down the street looking as international as you do, were fearful that they would face fear, not for political reasons, but for being secular, that they would be discriminated against. now that he is the president and consolidating his power all over again, is there any similar fear that he's going to play the islamic card and further make life difficult for internationally-minded young turks? >> i think that this is -- i think we get -- in the west we

paint this prism of it's the islamic versus the secularist. i take a little bit of a different view of it. i think it is the underclass versus the elite in turkey. you've heard erdogan on a number of occasions talk about how he's a black turk. he's not a white turk from the elite. he's not privileged. he's from a scrappy neighborhood in istanbul. he's a soccer player. he represents the common man. and when he first came to power, it was very much this message of "i'm the anti-establishment. i'm going to speak for those who have never had voices in turkey." and he did. he actually brought up those individuals who were always marginalized within turkish society. and now there's this question of, you know, is secularism at risk. i think there is a lot of discrimination. i've certainly encountered it, and i think there is that. but i am not necessarily sure it is religious in nature. i think it is much more again

with these camps that you have in turkey with i'm for erdogan or i'm against erdogan. i think until we can actually create an environment where we have tolerance, respect and trust, i think it is going to continue that way. >> let me just put it a different way. i think the problem in turkey is not islamist/secularist, it's authoritarianist. the problems or the fears of cosmopolitan western-oriented young turks living in istanbul is really a fear of a new class that has emerged and has become powerful at the expense of what had been a traditional secularist ruling elite. that's equally unsettling, this change. suddenly women in headscarf are showing up in places that they've never been before. but that's not an indication

turkey's more religious. it just means that one of the important achievements of the justice and development party is providing an opportunity for turks to explore their identities, including their religious identities, in ways that they were never able to do before safely. speaking of this, underclass -- this black turk versus white turk kind of thing, i remember i referenced this big pro-erdogan rally i went to. i have a picture of a young man holding a sign -- young man. meaning like my age because i still think of myself as young. holding a sign that said "today is our day, turkey." now that could have just been someone who was feeling very strongly about his being turkey and -- but what it said to me really was, it's our day. supporters of the underclass, the new middle class that has

emerged during the akp period. that it was their day to exercise power and they were unabashedly proud of that moment. >> hi. thank you for your great remarks and i really appreciate the fact that you made the distinction that this isn't an islamist problem. my question is, in light of what you just said, and explained, if we look at egypt, which is sort of a mirror image of what's happened in turkey, only that the roles have been reversed. how sustainable is this repression? i mean in egypt, look, we're how many years away from the last coup. how sustainable is this? and it seems to me that, unlike egypt, as you explained, steve, turkey has an additional problem which is that it can't really repress the middle class. i mean -- because that's what -- the rising middle class, particularly the younger generation, is responsible for

its success anyway because success was so reliant upon its economic progress, which of course was never the case in egypt. so how sustainable is this and how do you think the turkish government is going to deal with the fact that its opponents are also its resources for success. thank you. >> thanks, jenny. it is always nice to compare turkey and egypt which has been bread and butter for me for quite some time. how sustainable is the repression is an empirical question. when we think about sisi in egypt, would anybody have ever imagined that we're talking about now past three years since the coup? kind of a really staggering amount of violence and repression applied to egyptian society, yet they continued to do it and continued to actually have a reservoir of support for it. i think -- let me put it this way. it is somewhat of an advantage that the turks have over their

egyptian counterparts is that you do have a situation in which large numbers of turks mirrored egyptians who supported and support the countercoup. they didn't want to live where you had thousands upon thousands of egyptians. . the largest protests since the begaining inning of humanity, w told. you had far less numbers in turkey out in the streets and since that time demonstrating that they don't want to live under military rule. to the extent that either erdogan or sisi framed the narrative in a specific way that keeps the country on a metaphorical war foot, they can do it. sisi has done that by basically restructuring and rethinking what it means to be egyptian, egyptian identity, egyptian nationalism, so on, so forth,

that it's completely written the muslim brother out. muslim brother is alien, terrorist organization and that has been something that has been an important mechanism of political mobilization. similar. they're playing that role in turkey right now. and to the extent that people don't want to live under -- didn't want the military to intervene, don't think of themselves as a country where militaries intervene and to the extent that as they have pointed out, people are am bif lent abo -- am b ambivalent. i think it's an impeesempirical question, longer than we might suspect. >> a comparison, i think a better comparison for turkey is not egypt but china. >> i can't do that comparison.

>> so i think you're talking about a middle class. i think here is where i think the government is going to have to decide. you can grab this power and repress but like in china, unless you're delivering for the people and you're delivering those surfaces and keeping the economy going, there will be a rebellion. and turks will not stand for it. they will come out because they have progressed. i think just like any -- like individuals anywhere, they want to have prosperity. and that's actually what they're after. >> we have ten minutes left. we'll go with. that then you can wrap up. steve? >> right there. >> even before the coup, they seem to be recalibrating his policy towards syria.

and i just wanted to ask you to comment on what you saw coming in terms of turkey's syria policy. >> thank you for the enlightening remarks. do you think the outcome of the coup has anything to do about cannibalism? it is dead? is it a rhetorical weapon? your thoughts? >> thank you for your remarks. my question is why now? why did the coup happen? it seems there was a miscalculation. it seems as though even the military didn't fully support this coup. it was mostly mid level officers and not higher ranking officers and they certainly didn't have the amount of public support they would need for it to be successful. so why did they decide to do it

now? and what lead to that misunderstanding or miscalculation? >> and the final one is from twitter. >> we have a huge question from twitter. i want to give our followers the opportunity to ask their questions. number one, how do you think the coup attack will impact the turkish government's relationships with the kurds? number two, can you talk a little bit about how significant the social media was in the response to the coup. and third, if there's time or you wish to answer, could ayou address turkish reproachment leading up to the coup and anything that's happening. >> that's seven questions in seven minutes. easy, right? >> i can do that. >> piece of cake. >> the way i'm going to do that is punt the siri question to

erin. on cannibalism, it's been dead and been dead for a while. one of the things and i'll loop this into the third question about why now and why did it fail, why was in a miscalculation? turkish society as the remarks indicate my own remarks about politics indicate is much more complex than it once was. it requires a kind of drab political conformity that turks no longer respond to. and no longer want to respond to. it's been part of the political success in addition to infrastructure and health care and all the kinds of pocketbook issues that the party has been able to deliver. the fact that it is dead and turks are no longer really willing to submit in that way.

the officers that tried to carry thought coup did not understand how much turkish society has changed. much of that may have to do with the fact that turkish military officers have essentially been military officers since they were 14 years old and have been socialized and educated in very kind of specific ways to think about themselves and the society which they are duty bound to protect. i think they probably didn't have a clear idea. of course, there were careerists who were interested in advancing their career. there were allegedly people worried about purds. but overall, i think this is this disconnect between a military that has been set aside from society. and they were able to read what is going on there. as to the other questions, i'll just pick and choose. i'll just say one thing about

the social media, i just think it was an astonishing irony that they used facetime and that social media has been important. everyone who has railed against social media called twitter satan i think. they employed an army to intimidate folks like ourselves when we dare criticize that he use social media essentially to help rescue -- rescue his presidency and his life in many ways. finally, on it's too long, we don't have enough time to talk about turkey, israel and russia. i think that speaking -- going back to what they said about turkey being weak, i think the changes in the relationships between jerusalem and moscow speak to turkey's weakness in the region and really no place else for the turks to go but to

start repairing relations with the important capitals that do drive the events in the middle east. that's an entirely different -- we can come back to the atlantic council next week for a complete i did different session. >> a quick question on the kurds. i think the kurds really come out bad i think it wasn't ghoin in a good direction anyway. i think we'll see a lot more hostilities increase in the southeast, i think. i teach a class at nyu called foreign policy and time of the internet. and we take a look at the role that at which time eastern facebook play. >> am i annen fluns here? >> i think that social media -- not only played a big role in the coup as stephen talked about, you know, the irony of, you know, clamping down on not only twitter but shutting down

youtube and shutting down social -- a lot of social media sites in turkey. i think they have a recap of the what's app messages were traded between the coup plotters. you know, i think these devices and technology is really changed the game. i'm not sure if how they would have actually conducted if it didn't exist. i think the fact you have social media, it is the one outlet that an ordinary turk does have. it's so critical to keep that important. i think that because of the importance of that that they understands that that he is always coming out and threatening to silence that. >> i would end by addressing these. i have my own thoughts about the social media issue.

the crackdown on social media has made every single turkey know a user of torrent that allows them to bypass whether they throttle the media. in addition to facetiming, efforts to crack down or throttle the internet on the part of the coup plotters, they flip on the tore enlt and continue on with their life. there is not even a drop any longer in social media usage. and that's a direct result from when they crack down on social media in the past and everybody has to bypass it. the only people i know who were affected by throttling of the internet were americans who had -- don't spend much time in turkey who happen to be there and who didn't have a torrent downloaded before they went. as for the relationship with the kurds, there's an opportunity if they want to play it. all that stuff -- i will say up until 2:59:59 did d.c. time on

friday, the feeling within the turkish military and the turkish intelligent services were triumphant. they thought they were winning their war in the southeast. and that they were on the right track to force concessions or coerce the pkk into following certain demands that they put in place to reserve the peace talks. the issue i was being told was the politics weren't right to begin it again. well, now the military is a complete disarray. officers have been, the military and combat and command in charge of this, the second army, lost its leader. he's now in handcuffs allegedly part of the coup plot. and you have talk amongst senior turkish officials that, well, these incidents that the kurds, particularly pkk supporters take as problems of the states, we're going to look at them again because maybe they were good

officers who carried these out. so there is a pathway if both parties want to go back to the peace process. even those kurds came out to protest against what was going on in istanbul even those people are not happy with the state or the military. finally, for syria, again, the commander of the second army who is responsible for syria is now in handcuffs. the impulses to tone down the syrian policy but i'm willing to accept a u.s. timetable for tran trance wigs transition with assad will be firmly entrenched in turkey. anything you'd like to say in 15 seconds before we wrap up here? >> thanks to all of you for

coming. >> thank you. >> in the end, thank you everybody for coming. please, i have to thank the panelists here.

at the 2016 democratic convention, hillary clinton becomes first woman nominee of a major political party for president of the united states. c-span is live to day at 3:00 p.m. eastern with a preview of day's scheduled events and speakers, followed at 4:00 p.m. with all of the convention coverage. tonight's speakers are mothers of the movement and former president bill clinton. president obama and vice president biden will speak on wednesday. democratic vice-presidential nominee senator tim kaine will address the convention. and chelsea clinton introduces her mother before she accepted the nomination as president of the united states. live coverage of every minute of the 2016 democratic national

convention begins today at 3:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. the c-span radio app and c-span.org. next, the czech republic's foreign minister on the impact of the uk's brexit vote on europe including rumors that czech republic would follow suit with their decision to leave the european union. he talked about the eu's relationship with turkey and russia. >> good morning, everyone. i'm the president of the german marshal fund of the united states. aim delighted to welcome you to this next edition of transatlantic talks. today we are privileged to welcome czech foreign minister.

he is the minister of foreign affairs since january of 2014. he has had a distinguished public service career prior to that including in the chamber of deputies of the czech parliament. and all of you do have his full biography. as you know, our transatlantic talks are on the record and we encourage you to tweet. so the #gmfttalk. we thought this was an ideal moment to take stock of europe in the wake of the uk's rever d referendum on eu membership and the victory of the campaign and so many other things that have happened since then whether the nato summit, whether the attack in nice, the failed coup in turkey. for summer, it has been hot not only in terms of the weather, for sure. and mr. minister, i think we see the turnout today for a friday

in july, there is this great deal of interest in these topics here in washington. mr. minister, i want to start by drawing you out on how significant an impact you think the decision by britain, the eu second largest economy, one of the most capable foreign security policy actors is for the future of the european project? >> thank you. good morning. i'm very glad that i have this opportunity to be here with you. i thank you. i really appreciate how many people came. i have a chance to explain something. and, yes, this decision to leave was fundamental decision. it sent shock waves around here.

but maybe i can assure you that many politicians now in europe there is general theerfeeling te have to calm down the situation and also that we have to maybe to give some time, uk to liberate some position. there is some indication on maybe the end of next year that we have a time to prepare. for us in the european union, you take this out of uk, the first task is to learn some lessons.

there is isolation of this fascinating island. but there is something more. it is also about us. because i'm afraid that very similar feeling we have also in our countries and also in central east europe and maybe what is most serious that we are facing generally something which is like lack of trust. the zpidecision to leave europe union is a very serious political crisis. but it's not only about brexit. it has no sense to punish

britain. maybe they can speak that in the uk and there are many similar tendencies to leave continent maybe from the time and very similar events. but i can understand, but xwenl i'm deeply convinced that this decision is a disaster. what it is like? and we have to find a way how to handle. we have to look for some ways how to create good partnerships for britains. you can't imagine it can be very difficult because on one side, if uk will ask for access to european single market, for us, as in czech republic, it's impossible to accept access uk and not to keep this fundamental

freedoms. it's impossible that somebody could have some exemption. and i can't imagine that people or uk nationals will have some privileges in our union territories and then our people will come to you be excluded. and many ways can you imagine how it is important to cooperate with nem and security measures. everybody knows that uk is best equipped maybe and very important method we are fighting against terrorism and the general european security

architecture. so that's why it's absolutely clear we need britain. but the talks would be tough. we have to find a way how to help resolve it. and maybe to understand what happened and i'm convinced that it's not only about but the fact of this part of this discussions and debates before referendum, it was also something like to make uk great again and requests to return this old britain back and maybe also something like filling the former empire and glory. that's why it seems to me that

we are facing something which is more general. maybe it's very interesting this problem of feeling that we're leaving the people and thinking they're leaving and then want to be more in center. and this feeling maybe that america wants to be more in center of the world. uk wants to be more in the center. everybody wants to be on the center. generally feelings that life is elsewhere. we have to find a way how to return to the center of the light. and maybe something like general feeling not only in europe and britain. i'm afraid it's probably also here in the u.s. and it is very interesting to visit your country because when i'm looking at u.s. from the czech republic, i have feeling that europe is in good shape. i'm convinced that you're able to overcome financial crisis and

you're able to incentivize in europe. very low unemployment in the u.s. now. there is economic growth. i admire your president barack obama. maybe you're feeling that it's only something like progressive. no. i had fascinating opportunity to compare. and i will speak of the house. i visit the u.s. maybe i don't know 12, 15 years ago. i had opportunity to listen to your former president george bush, younger, in federal assembly. and i learned about this atmosphere maybe and this very atmosphere. and then i return and i had opportunity to listen to your current president, barack obama. i was absolutely shocked how absolutely changed atmosphere in this country. and your president was applauded and i asked iranian minister

what are you speaking? what is your impression? he said, yes. listen, maybe i like to correct something. but generally it was very decent. iranian minister. i'm speaking about it. the president was able during ten years absolutely changed the picture and image before his countries. for me, it was something fascinating. it seems to me there is no feeling of grateful, no feeling of appreciation this fascinating job that was made in this administration. i know that maybe there are many things that can be discussed. but i'm convinced that your country is very good shape now. and i have from many friends, i heard there is bad mood here in the u.s. that they don't go out to say it.

but it is very bad atmosphere. and maybe now mr. trump, i want to change everything. i want to reduce taxes and maybe to start create jobs and maybe -- everything has to change. my first and most important feeling is that i'm afraid of this tone in politics. and this conviction that they have to change everything. because i'm deeply convinced it's maybe one of the fundamental experiences of my life. they have to change everything. why? because we're living in a very intricate world. i'm afraid that if we want to change everything in the whole system and the whole regime, it will be impossible for us really to concentrate on dictators,

country best things maybe it is something which president is offering us. the president is offering us to change something, really, precisely, completely and to change it. it's our chance. it's big potential. but they will overcome this and to start feel that we are changing everything, i'm afraid that something like wasting time. maybe it's something which could destroy the whole system. i hope maybe you have feeling that they're too con severtive. but this conservatism is the result of my life experience. and maybe it was said by our president, because the czech republic there is some experiences in the revolution. we have big revolutions in 1948. we remember the revolution in soviet union in 1917.

that's why we have the main experience and main message for me is maybe to be very careful on this big profits of the change and fundamental change of everything. it's about the revolutionary change to start hard work on this conflict.

and the same thing in europe. also, i have to -- i can't accept this. because in europe, we're in a very intricate situation. we have not only brexit. we have also the east and now turkey on the south. that means they represent maybe very complicated situation. but i see all this events like tests, tests that we have to manage maybe during this difficult year 2016. and i'm convinced that we're able to operate and to create the right tools. we have to fight our way out of this crisis. you have to create new relations between uk and european union. we have to solve all the problems. i think our forces are strong enough in europe and we have no

alternative than to step-by-step to solve all of the problems. not only brexit, i feel sorry, but for example, also turkey. during the few, started to be very important, very serious issue also. maybe i feel sorry that i didn't go too deep, especially in brexit. it will be interest. i'm ready to continue. >> that was a very impressive and passionate tour of the force of the many issues on the transatlantic aagenda yachlt i'd like to follow up on several of them. first, you made the comment that the referendum in the uk and outcome of that referendum wasn't just about britain, you said it was also about us. and you do see this lack of trust this broad euro skepticism across much of europe. and you talked about these force that's are pulling europe apart versus sort of this force that's could unify europe. and there has been a lot of discussion about whether the

decision -- britain's decision to leave the eu could be a model for other eu member states. and interestingly, the czech republic is one that often comes up in that discussion. you know, people are so happy to talk about chexits that a possibility? could you speak specifically to the czech case? >> i'm convinced that it's absolute nonsense. not because you said it. no. no. in czech republic to speak about czexit is none sense. it is a country and industry is our backbone. we are export oriented country. it is a great exchange is our livelihood. maybe -- i saw it in this country. it would mean maybe to decrease some type of living for maybe i

don't know, 45 years. i can't imagine that we would be able to keep rational debate to access something similar. it's a small country with export oriented country. they are really all our right is connected. i have to say i'm very glad that our mutual trade between czech republic and the u.s. are growing very quick ly, 30% -- that's too much. 13% more. i'm very glad. your market is very sophisticated. it's very demanding for czechs and i'm very glad that especially this rate and

cooperation have developing in a successful way. that is maybe what is the future. the future is in corporations. everybody knows that you have no chance and you will start to build walls. yes. there are some people which are scared in czech republic. they're scared because they see the other cities every week in television screens. that they are scared of them. they say maybe also in czech republic, yeah, we have to also to build some walls on our borders and maybe to protect before this tsunami of migrants will come. but it's nonsense. all this is nonsense. and it's not easy in central east european countries to explain this. but it's our role as politicians. i would like to tell you one thing. during the '90s, during the yugoslavia crisis, czech republic was able to receive 30,000 of refugees from former

yugoslavia. nobody had no problem. there was no interest about the region. and we're receiving all. this and maybe the question is why the situation change so much? you know sh because of this conflict and experience and most people seeing this television screens n nice, for example, and now maybe the last, we know about it. what happened in the german city. and maybe also especially this last even made great impact in germany. you can't imagine this. that is why people are so scared. maybe when i went by my airplane from brussels to new york in this airplane i spoke with a woman from belgium. she is a university teacher, physician. she told me i have young children, two young children. i decided with my husband to leave brussels because we are

not willing to live in so nervous and so dangerous atmosphere which is now in brussels. and maybe in short time i spoke with a wife, she came from paris with children and also she told me, i am afraid that in paris is too insecure place for us. we are looking for some life. it is really something like -- psychosis. it's very dangerous. in the current world, the terrible atrocities are so serious and damaging because people are also concerned that they are also unsatisfied with the government.

there is a feeling that governments are not able to protect us. it's something which is very serious. because this feelings and this atmosphere would probably change our political stages. you know that in austria in october there is a petition of presidential election and, you know, he is a candidate of the party which is very close to ideals. it is a conflict and impact result of this uncertainty and

it is something that seems to me more than generous. because in similar atmosphere, we as politicians there is one common task, to create alliances and to be able to keep democracy as a pillar and maybe you can believe me that it's not only we can think b because in czech republic we have in our memory a situation from 1930 when we had very similar experience and less connection with all our neighbors. czechoslovakia in turkey was not able to communicate friendly with poland and hungary. they split. and this state absolutely isolated. and our president was not able

to communicate and to create alliances in iraq and it is experience maybe is vivid also now. that's why they're trying now in czech republic to keep the group together. we are trying -- personally trying to communicate my partner in poland, hungary and slovakia and maybe to -- and trying to elaborate on a positive agent and maybe and to create some guarantees that do not fall apart. and we are starting -- we are striving to keep the group together. it's not maybe in striving to isolate but also at the same time to create bridges within the central east european countries and the west. i can't accept any dividing lines between east and west and south and north. now it seems to me very important to be partner for all

democrats all around. very good communication with germany. german democrats. and we are -- france, we have strategic partners with germany and also with france. we're trying to create alliances with people that will stop and hamper any attempt to disrupt and to change the democratic orientation of the country -- these countries. i hope that we'll be strong enough. >> so you put this issue of refugees squarely on the table. this seems the most devisive issue that europe dealt with to date. you mentioned that you'll have this revote in the us aindustryian presidential election on the very same day hung gary will have a referendum about the eu's quota system on

refugees. and i think we're pretty sure how that referendum is going to come out. so the issue of refugees is still a deeply devisive one in europe. one thing that has tamped down that issue has been the eu's deal with turkey. you mentioned earlier the failed coup. there is now some concern about whether that eu-turkey deal will hold. could you speak to both the residents of the refugee issue in terms of an east-west division within the eu and also reflect on those concerns about the staying power of that eu-turkey deal.

also you dictate brexit or this referendum in the uk. it's probably conscious that main topics was not migration issue but the movement of people. because uk -- they're not speaking about migration. but it's a little bit falls. they are speaking about migrants from central european countries, mainly poland. the prop is that there is some feeling that there has to be fundamental state who decides who can come to your territory. who can cross the boarders. it is one of the most -- maybe

this topic was the result of the referendum in the uk. and the fundamental is the same. we are solving it as a feeling that many people are convinced that we can't accept, for example, any automatic mechanism or the system of mandatory brought us. it will decide every year what number of people we have to receive in our countries. maybe there are differences between individual countries. for example, in czech republic, there are trying to create a breech between this problem and we are offering that we are ready and voluntary base tois receive refugees. we are stressing all the time that we have to make it on a voluntary basis.

any system and mechanism, maybe mechanism will decide every year which number we should accept. that's why we're trying to create this compromise. and accept that we have to show solidarity. also in this way. and we're ready to receive a few thousand refugees per year. but it has to be under our -- it has to be the decision of the czech government. but it's true that this position is not so much accepted by our partners and what seems to me important to be able to create this compromises on both sides, there is something and maybe it's okay a positive agenda and -- because any country is

willing to help in some way. we have to create a common trend which is generally accepted. and you ask on turkey, now turkey is very important part of this balkans solution and this deal which was made between eu and turkey was a precondition for change, fundamental change in the people through balkans. now it's probably through this deal with turkey was fundamental improvement. and now it's very hard to prognosis future development because i'm afraid it seems to me that turkish army is weakened.

they're operating in the southeast part of turkey on the bored we are syria. it's part of the very important task maybe in this fight against islamic state. and also we can also have this border with army has this border protection and agency. it is hard to see how it would influence this militaries and how turkey will be able to guarantee that nothing change dra mat bei dramatically in these days. but maybe this cooperation between turkey was connected with every day cooperation.

it's very hard for future development. generally i'm convinced that the situation in turkey is very fragile. i'm afraid it is a part of this breakdown on not only on militaries but also on universities and maybe there are 50,000, 60,000 people which are on the screen and will be investigated. it is something which could influence turkish society and also it could backfire. i'm not sure that on the end there will be strong later on. i'm afraid, it's my speculation that this push and press and this attack on some segment of society could really backfire and could create spots.

and that's why i'm very careful to prognosis future development. we have to accept immigration. it's only important to manage all this also without sushgy. turkey will be problematic swrechlt no other option. and maybe today maybe our -- my prime minister made some proclamation that we have to think about the european army. i hope we don't have a feeling gns nato. no. it is absolutely clear now that we have to be more active in europe. we have to be able to manage

something in our own way that somebody can help us. you know, yesterday i reacted on the declaration that this article five could be served only. >> narrator: precondition that the country will be able to have obligations. on the one side, it's something very unpleasant and happy, yes, to make some additional requests maybe to article five. on the other hand, maybe i'm not surprised because they have to make more things together and also in security measures. it was only a matter of time. it is something we speak about. that's why also in czech republic, we're increasing our budget in defense and security

because there is no other option. we can as the u.s. to protect us for the future. on the other hand, i would like to say something positive. i'm convinced at the very important to be together. u.s. and european union. because maybe i'm convince the that it's advantage is not only for us in europe and deeply convinced this advantage also for the u.s. allow me to recall september 11 events and '91 when we were ready and able to help you and to start something together. it was very important and also for the u.s. to have partners and friends in similar situations. that's why i'm convinced that there is mutual cooperation and mutual assistance if something

happened. we have partners and we have to speed up and increase our spending, our money to defense. on the other hand, i'm convinced that it will be absolute tragedy maybe to go on our only. we have to be more equipped. we have to be more strong in europe. but at the same time, we need this -- maybe more than -- maybe more than before. and i'm convinced that also this situation and we are facing so many challenges all around, i was glad that john kerry in brussels said that, for example, they're now in this situation much more important than was maybe a few months or a year

ago. i don't know if we are able to manage this negotiation through the end of the year. we need this cooperation more than ever. that's why on one side, i'm a bit concerned to listen to what donald trump said. on the other, i'm so surprised. i know that they have to be more strong. all the time he talk about such power. now it seems to me too little to talk about the ability to strengthen resilience. we need more also in europe. we need more trat strategy thin. we have to be able to shape our security environment. it's in our policy. they're attacking us. it's not enough to be on this power.

it's not enough to be only brazilian. that seems to me they have to change our global european strategy. and then also could be also better partner for u.s. for the future. >> terrific. i want to open to all of you. you put lots of issues on the table from europe and the eu. turkey's fragility, the role of the u.s. and mikes are coming. so we'll have a mike right here. >> thank you very much. thank you. my question -- >> introduce yourself. >> okay. >> my name is martin herm an. i'm from the czech republic. >> hold it closer to your mouth. >> yes, originally from czech republic. a long time in america.

my question is i don't want to make your life more difficult. but what happens if let's say on top of all the problems that already exist, you suddenly are faced with a banking crisis? >> you're absolutely right. it's also one of the most serious problems which we have now. and maybe we need strong resolute steps forward. and i'm convinced that we are speaking about economic era. in current state, we are not building to develop right solution. and we have some countries and we are not solving this problem. i'm convince swred to develop something new.

for example, you know the czech republic is not part of the euro zone? on one side we're interested to the part of this covering. on the other, i have some doubts. i would like to tell you why. i remember this press conference of john clawed was maybe, i don't know, in a few months ago. he was asked why u.s. european commission you are not building to act and you are so dedicated to france. and the response because it's france. but, no, dear friends, for me, it's absolutely important thing. because what is the source of

the euro zone? this unwillingness to accept the rules. it is on the become ground why economic crisis was so serious and so serious. we were not able to find a way out of this crisis. and u.s. you are much more smart n europe we had many problems because of the inability to keep rules. and i would like to see some change in this. maybe if in this time germany and france has something like special treatment, for me it was something that we have to change. everybody has to keep rules. it is impossible to surround this entertainment and this enterprise. and maybe after -- then i saw it because it's france. what does it mean that individual -- if czech republic will be part of this group, then they will bear all this debt.

all this indebted countries. because nobody knew. it was very impact. this unwillingness to keep rules is fundamental that there are some tasks on this side of check republic. maybe also we have to do much more in deep. because to solve the problems of this indebted countries on the south, it means to maybe elaborate some new project. maybe you know this voucher thing and he's speaking that what we need is something like breathing euro. breathing euro means there are some countries who leave euro for some time maybe to use own currency to renovate economy and then to return. i don't know if it is the right project.

then can you talk about how to make this project sustainable. we need something like creative thinking. we need thinking in the field of economics and finances. and maybe a question italy. i'm afraid that they need some fundamental decisions. what they dowill do in the futu. you look at these debts and we're not able to solve it. i apologize. it's maybe one lecture only on this. thank you. >> pbs online news hour. you talked a lot about trump. what about putin? and one of the things that makes me raise the question about putin is ann applebom who you must know well. has a very good column today

showing the extent to which trump is handmade and reducing trust in the united states for reducing trust in the atlantic alliance, that even trump's operatives at the platform committee took out a specific reference to ukraine. where do you -- and the fact that putin of all the leaders in the world has declared that the eu is strategic threat to russia. [ inaudible ] >> right. you know, it's very interesting

for me to follow this u.s. political scene. i'm following it very carefully. but i can tell you i'm not knowledgeable personally. because i am maybe not so -- it's impossible for me to know what it all means in the u.s. i will tell you one thing, i remember some televisievision performance before the election between george bush younger and al gore. it was television performance. shortly before the election. and i remember what george bush said in this broadbroadcasting. al gore said the u.s. has to keep responsibility and so george bush told him i'm convinced there is no reason to care about these countries because we have to care about us. yes. and what he represented was

correct and isolationist position. that's what i remember. george bush position on television shortly before. and whether i compare the real george bush politics after his election and what was said maybe before his election, it is real difference. that is really unclear. it doesn't mean all this slogans and all this declaration and what does it mean for real u.s. politics after the election? i can tell you it's impossible. because i'm more close to democratic party. maybe i have feeling that maybe speaking about democrats it seems to me there are more close -- their declarations are more close to what they are doing, maybe more than the republican party. it seems to me there is a big gap. i don't know if donald trump is republican. it is also a question for me. but maybe yes. i would like all to explaincomp

understand what it means. donald trump is making big talks about europe. it is absolutely true. you can't imagine does it does for us when somebody's speaking about article 5 in a similar way. but it seems to me not only me, but we are careful, and probably they are waiting what will happen, because i hope that the future u.s. president will keep rules, as i said, will keep some continuity. it's something unimaginable that the u.s., so important country, will leave everything and start maybe to change the whole policy. and i hope that your country and your system is strong enough maybe also to keep any future u.s. president to accept the rules.

because what i'm afraid most of donald trump is chaos. because you know that brexit is chaotic thing for us, and turkey is absolutely chaotic thing, and now what we need is u.s. which will be able to face this chaos and to show us that maybe you have interesting debates after this election, but after the election will be u.s. president which also will be predictable and solid partner for us. it is what we need, maybe, but you know also, we know that elections are something special. and for us, it is very important the result, and i am convinced that future u.s. president will be a good partner for us, not only czech republic but also for europe. we need u.s. everybody knows it. we need u.s. very much, maybe. also, we are living in post american -- well, how is it in

his book, but it is limited. it is absolutely clear that u.s. are important and it is very important what will happen in november in this country. and i will keep my fingers crossed to you because we are connected. >> just maybe to put a europe spin on the russia question while the mike is passed to charles, who is next on my list. there is also, then, debate in washington about how solid the consensus in the eu is on maintaining sanctions against russia. you just extended for another six months, but -- >> yeah, yeah, yeah. >> -- the uk perhaps less involved with the debate in germany changing. how solid is that consensus? >> yeah, yeah, yeah. thank you for this very easy question, yeah? [ laughter ] so, we were able to roll over this sanctions to the end of the year, you know? at the same time you know that we are ready to start discussion in september, also on the level of the european council, i mean,

the heads of the government and so, we will have special discussion about russia. what we know about russia now? we know that in the russia situation is unstable. we know probably there is no chance for fundamental change in short time, because the problem, the reason of current russian behavior is internal. if you are not able to modernize economy, you are not able to give perspective because you are developing modern economy and so maybe you have alternative to find enemy. and now what it maybe sad story for me even, i saw that this tendency in russia to give us this image of europe is enemy, u.s. are enemy, the main enemy. and how it was successful, this story, it's really disaster for me. and now what they are doing in

russia, in crimea? they are concentrating on one very important topic, the preparation of election in 2018. so, it is probably the main task, to prepare for this election. and that's why i am practically convinced there is no chance for change, and probably russia will continue in this -- on this track, and maybe it would be naive to think that something will change and we will have a different russia. maybe in some way, it seems to me situation is dangerous, also because, for example, this last doping scandal, because it's very unpleasant thing for russia and for putin especially as leader, because this doping

scandal means that you have some gap in this program. it is a danger that it could be replaced by something. i am not sure what it should be. i would hope it would be nothing in kazakhstan or ukraine, but maybe i can imagine also bad scenario. i feel sorry, but it's really. that's why i'm not underestimating we are speaking about islamic state, but very difficult to prioritize what is the most dangerous. maybe it seems to me that russia also represents a very important problem. i am very glad that your minister, john kerry, visited moscow, made some attempt to have some plan for ukraine and also for syria. but i am hopeful, but my optimism is limited that there

is chance really to have concrete results in a few months, maybe before this administration is leaving and in this limited amount of time for them. but i am convinced that what we decided in warsaw, this dual approach to russia -- on one side deterrents, on the other side to be open, to start dialogue is right decision. it seems to me a good result, but i have no big expectation that we are able to change this in short time. on the other hand, in europe, we are starting this, but it is very difficult because it is a big press from in many countries from the side of entrepreneurs that we have to lift sanctions, that the sanction has no concrete results and there is no reason to continue like this. and on the other hand, i am convinced that one of our main tools was unity. and i can only promise from the

side of czech republic that we will try to keep this united position for the future, because we are not able to -- we have limited tools. somebody -- i hear that the sanctions, it's nothing, it has no sense. but what are the options? maybe to do really nothing? it was maybe -- only thing we can show that we cannot continue business as usual after annexation of crimea and this terrible things. maybe we have limited tools, but we have to use it, and we have to be able -- we have to try to keep unity for a long time. i can't promise that we will be able to continue in similar way. maybe, in my opinion, it would be better to elaborate something like minsk agreement because i

am convinced this was not advantage for us. it was not tailored for ukraine. it was maybe more tailored for russia. and that's maybe to fulfill this condition and this -- it's maybe most complicated for us. and now maybe you know there is some attempt to solve now this military conditions first and then to create room through political solutions and decisions in kiev. there is some roadmap, yes, now, but i can't tell you how -- what we can expect there is really a chance to change something. maybe to create something like more sequenced agreement and more relation also for us and the ukrainian government. but it's very tough, and i hope that we will be able to keep this united position in opposite it would be ridiculous, yes? to lift sanction now without any

concrete step from russian side, it seems to be impossible. it's very shortly, but it is my position and it is also a very tough question. >> charles from johns hopkins university. very nice to see you again, sir. i appreciated your refreshingly candid comments, particularly about the united states, but on other issues as well, so i'm going to ask you a refreshingly candid question as well. and the question has to do with restraints on your very deeply pro european and pro western approach to the world and the nature of czech liberal democracy. the question is this -- as in other democracies, there are important forces that do not support you. i have in mind particularly

president zemin, especially when he was prime minister, but again now, is surrounded by people. i remember the name of schlouf who was his awful chief of staff and closely connected to russia. and there are other elements. there are illiberal democracies, proudly calling themselves that. i have in mind particularly hungary and poland. to what extent do they exert a restraint on your noble ability to lead the czech republic and keep the czech republic in the western world? >> probably it is clear that many, many countries now, it's not so easy to grant the clear, easy, democratic way for the

future, and it's probably the same in central-east europe. and maybe, for me it's very interesting to compare, because i had opportunity to visit nato summit in 1997 in madrid. it was a very important summit because czech republic, hungary and poland was invited to be members of nato in this year. and i remember this atmosphere in 1997 absolutely different. this atmosphere, for example, now in warsaw. maybe you can imagine there was tony blair and jack shirock and almost a feeling of om nip tanou

tanous. and maybe it was on the horizon we had no threats maybe for our democracy. but i remember also in these days that we are very, very glad that we had a chance to be part of nato, because there was some suspicion maybe somewhere back maybe that so in future things could change and maybe we will need similar grants like membership in european union and nato. why i am speaking about it, because i remember in these times, it seems like everything is clear, and these countries, central, have only one task, maybe to catch this west countries and to be part of this liberal order