time. now, "the contenders." our series on key political figures who ran for president and lost but nevertheless changed political history. next, we feature former house speaker henry clay of kentucky, known as the great compromiser. the program was recorded at clay's ash land estate in lexington, kentucky, and is about 90 minutes. this 14-week series is airing at 8:00 p.m. eastern, august 1 through august 14th here on american history to have c-span3. this is a portrait of kentucky's henry clay, known to us from history books as the great compromiser. during his 49-year political career, clay served as secretary of state, speaker of the house, and as a u.s. senator. and he was a contender, making sure presidential bids including the election of 1824.

1832 against andrew jackson, and 1844, when he ran against james k. polk. tonight we are on location at ash land. henry clay's home in lexington, kentucky. for the next 90 minutes, we will explore the life and legacy of this man. unsuccessful in his long quest for the white house, yet having an outsized influence on american history. we are in henry clay's parlor. let me introduce you to jim klotter, 25 years now as kentucky state historian. thanks for being with us. >> glad to be here. >> why henry clay? why is he relevant to americans living in our time? >> think a couple of counts. first of all, his famous counts, "i would rather be right than be president," still speaks to us. it's a clarion call to people across whatever we're doing. whether we're in politics or something else, is to do the right things. he also said, you know, that in a sense that the politicians need to remember the country and sacrifice for the country.

i think that is still something we need to remember, as well. the man known as the great compromiser. a man that forged compromises that not only kept the nation together but were constructive. those kind of things i think are the things we need to remember about henry clay, as well as all the things that he did in his life. again, a clarion call over and over to us, to say to us again and again that we can do a lot of things if we just do and try, as a self-made man did, henry clay. >> we're going to try to fits 49 years of rich political history during a very complex and interesting time of american history into our program tonight. let's start with basics of his biography, where and when was he born, and how did he get to kentucky? >> he was born in 1777, seventh child. his father died very young. clay's mother remarried to a younger man. clay liked to think of himself as a self-made man, a mill man,

carrying corn to the mill, working to the bone. came from poor ranks. but he came from a well-to-do family. they had slaves. it was part of the persona that clay personified himself. from there, his family basically came to kentucky, leaving him in virginia when he was 14 years old to be on his own. from there, he was back in kentucky when he was 20 years old as a young lawyer, married well. the easiest way to getvich ric to marry well, and he did that. this is an example of what he did with his start and with his promise. and he made himself into somebody that all americans knew. >> whom did he merritt? >> lecretia clay, lecretia hart-clay. an early family in kentucky. marriage into that family gave him entry into political circles

that would have previously been denied him. she brought with her to the marriage some money. they basically had the connections because her family was related that a lot of people, and he used those connections to move forward. once he got his foot in the door, that he could open the door himself through his own skills and abilities. >> if henry were through time travel standing here today, what would we see? what did he look like? what did he sound like? >> clay would have -- i don't think anybody would sit down without henry clay and leave without liking henry clay. he was a man -- not handsome. everybody says he was ugly. in fact, they comment about his large mouth. they said his mouth was so large that he couldn't even spit properly. he was a man who liked the ladies, as they said. somebody at the time said he could kiss them out of one side while he was speaking out of the other side of his mouth. as soon as he opened his mouth, a great oratory came out. high could charm you. he had charisma.

if there was a person of the opposite party that came to henry clay's home and a party that clay was doing, a room filled with people, a room bigger than this, and the man said to this man from the other party, wouldn't you like to meet the famous mr. clay? and this democrat said about the whig, clay, no, sir, no, sir. i do not choose to subject myself to the spell of his fascination. he knew that henry clay would suck him into his orbit if he met clay because he had that personality, charisma, that charm that anybody who would meet him would like henry clay one on one. >> do you know, was this just a genetic gift, or did he school himself to be an orator? did he have a mentor? >> he worked at it. he'd heard patrick henry speak in virginia. he was amazed by the force of hen henry's oratory. he wanted to be like that. he talks about giving speeches to the cows in the field as practice. and he came to kentucky as a lawyer. he almost had -- you almost had to convince your juries through the force of your words, not

necessarily through the law itself and frontier estate like that. he developed it. but he was almost a self-made orator, too. over time, it was something -- he could turn on a minute and speak on the issues. he was impossible to challenge in a debate because he would get up spur of the moment and come up with all the facts and all the figures and win the argument. john c. calhoun once prepared a talk for two weeks. and clay got up and demolished it instantly. and that's the kind of man that clay was. and had he been able to appear on television, he could have really been a very effective politician. of course, at that time, you didn't campaign for president. there was no radio. so you had to -- that force of the oratory was lessened. and only in congress did you have the full force of that. >> when we've been talking with historians and people here at ash land about him, they keep telling us that he was the equivalent of a rock star in his

time. everybody in the country knew him. in a country without mass communication, how was it possible for everybody to know who henry clay was? >> everybody -- politics was the sports of that time. it was the game that everybody followed. there were no organized sports as we knew it, things like it. there wasn't any musical things except in the church and things like it. the politics and oratory, everybody wanted to follow that as closely as they could. the oratory, the speeches of a clay or webster, young boys in school and girls would write these down and would practice them over and over again. that i wanted to be like a henry clay. he was like a rock star. he would be followed by adoring people. he would go into towns, and there's an example, 100,000 people coming to hear him speak at one time in dayton, ohio. he had children named for him, he had steamboats named for him. he had everything named for him. he was a man that people wanted

to see, to savor the excellence of henry clay. >> politicians still talk about henry clay today. let's listen to kentucky's senior senator, mitch mcconnell, referencing henry clay. >> henry clay was the greatest statesman that my home state ever produced. he served the people as speaker of the kentucky house of representatives, speaker of the united states house of representatives, secretary of state under president john quincy adams, and of course as one of the greatest senators to ever walk through the capitol. he was also honored to receive his party's nomination for president three times. in 1824, 1832, and 1844. the essence of legislating in the senate as 100 viewpoint as e brought together to create one

law is compromise. henry clay became known as the great compromiser by forging the great compromise that would keep the union together. clay did not compromise in the sense of forsaking his principles. rather, his skill was to bring together disparate ideas and forge consensus amember of congress his -- among his colleagues. a skill we could use more of now. >> during the great debates we just went through this summer over the debt ceiling and the budget, there was so much talk of compromise in washington, whether or not it's a lost art. talk to us a little in that context about henry clay as the great compromiser and what skills he brought to bear there. >> clay, if he wanted something to happen would work very hard to make it happen. he would sit down with people, find out what they wanted. he would go to the other side, see what they would want. tried to find common ground, somewhere in the middle.

it cost him, though. as they say about compromisers, there's a sign i think in the attorney general's office in the 1960s that said, blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall catch hell from both sides. in a sense, clay caught that problem from both sides. it hurt him politically. at the same time, he felt he had to do this pause the nation required it. the nation had been founded on compromise. the constitution is a compromise. and the nation did not compromise on these issues. it would tear itself apart. so clay had an urgency behind everything he did. he actually compromised some of his principles for the sake of the union. the 1833 compromise, he gave up his beloved tariff issues for the sake of keeping the union together and not having secessionists break off and fight a war against andrew jackson. at the same time, the greater things that he would not compromise on was the union. he said at one time, anybody wants to know the key to my heart, the union is the key to

my heart. that was the things he would never compromise on. >> when we're talking about echos of today and the american system, something he promoted, had major components which included tariffs, you just referenced. spending the money from the tariffs on building american infrastructure, and then also the big debate over a national bank. we're still discussing how effective these things are in today's economy. what were the -- what was the country like then, and what was the level of debate over issues such as the tariff and the national bank? >> very philosophical issues that were issues from the very start of the nation. they were still issues when henry clay came around. they're still issues today. do we have a strong central government, or do we have strong state governments? these are the issues that clay spoke on. he thought a national government should do things for the nation. the states cannot accomplish these. he spoke out about that, and people spoke against him for that. it hurt him in a lot of ways

politically, as well. he felt like these roads, these canals, these internal improvements were necessary to tie the country together, otherwise it would fragment into the east, west, north, south. his comment at one time was, i know no north, no south, no east, no west. to him, it was one country indivisible. these would be ways to keep it together. a tariff would protect american industry, he thought, and allow it to agree. he said a teammate would allow american industry to grow and compete against britain and groups like that. then the bank of the united states, at the time the united states was being formed, hard money was the only legal currency. the government didn't print paper money. some banks did. but they could be weak banks, and the money would go away. clay wanted to make a central bank that really we wouldn't have until the federal reserve system was set up in the 20th century. and that bank of the united states became controversial, as well, and hurt him politically when he supported that. he thought all of this was necessary for the good of the

nation. >> well, henry sounds -- clay sounds like a pretty good guy. but you said he had a lot of enemies. he also was known to have vices. what were his vices? >> he talked about the age this was in. thevises became more prominent the longer he lived as far as the political scene went. in his youth, he was known as a person who liked to gamble. he said it was a very good political tool. he could sit down when he was making a peace treaty and sit across from the british and play poker with them and see how much they would like to bluff or how much they would call his pluf. he saw it as a tool. he would lose large amounts of money one night, win them back the next night. his wife lecretia, when somebody chatted about her man being somebody who likes to gamble so much, she would say, i don't know, he usually wins. he did win a lot. but he liked the spirit of the gamble. as he got older, he didn't do

that much. he liked to drink, as most americans did, to drink water when it wasn't really safe. he preferred wine, but he never really got drunk. he enjoyed it. all those things were used against him by the moral side of america that thought that clay was a womanizer, a blasphemous, and those things were used over and over again. at different times, there was something to some of those. it became exaggerated and became part of the stereotype of henry clay. >> clay died in 1852. so the 50-year career we're talking about spans the first half of the 19th century in america. a great year, many years full of the formation of the nation and sectionalism and fights over slavery. we have so much to talk about. during this program, we will be opening up the phone lines for your participation. we'll give you the phone numbers if you want to get in the queue.

it will be a little bit of time before calls. if you're anxious to do so, get in line. 202-307-or if you live in the pacific, it's 202-737-0002. we welcome your questions, comment, input into this period of american history. it makes the decision much richer. we want to also listen to the views of kentucky's junior senator, rand paul, but henry clay. >> henry clay's life is at best a mixed message. his compromises were over slavery. one could argue that he rose above sectional strife to keep the union together, to preserve the union. one could argue that he was morally wrong and that his positions on slavery, to extend slavery, were decisions that may have ultimately invited the war that came. that his compromises nuclear plant during the 50 years of his

legislative career -- meant that during the 50 years of his legislative career, he not only accepted slavery but accepted the slave trade. in the name of compromise, henry clay was by most accounts not a cruel master, but he was a master nonetheless of 48 slaves, most of which they did not free during his lifetime and some of which he only freed belatedly 28 years after his death. he supported the fugitive slave law throughout his career. he compromised on the extension of slavery. when he was speaker of the house, there was a vote on extending slavey into arkansas. and the vote was 88-88. he came down extraordinarily from the speaker's chair to vote in favor of extending slavey into arkansas. before we eulogize henry clay, we should acknowledge and appreciate the contrast with contemporaries who refused to compromise. william lloyd garrison toiled at a small abolitionist press for 30 years, refusing to compromise

with clay, with clay's desire to send the slaves back to africa. garrison was beaten, chased by mobs, and imprisoned for his principled stand. frederick douglass traveled the country at the time. he was a free black man but traveled at great personal risk throughout the countryside and proved that he was the living, breathing example that intellect and leadership could come from a recently freed slave. >> we are back. and we are with another guest that i'd like to introduce. alstein turley, history professor at the university of louisville. welcome to our discussion of henry clay. bnch r before we get to the area where you have spent a lot of your scholarship, slavery in the time period of henry clay, talk to me in the general sense of your impressions of clay and his legacy. what are your views of this man? >> i think the image of him as a

rock star and popular candidate, political figure, is very impressive. he is a lightning rod. he seems to be able to get people fired up either for or against him. he has the ability to inspire. he takes more heat than senators -- than a john c. calhoun, for instance. clay is probably more talked about, written about, focused upon than some of the more prominent political figures. >> we've spent time talking about his basics and haven't really delved into his position about slavery. explain to us what his falafel and political position -- philosophical and political positions were. >> philosophically he was against slavery. for his time period, he would have been considered extremely liberal. for a long time, he was touted as an abolitionist, an

emancipationised. he did not -- emancipationist. he did not believe in slavery, but he also didn't believe that african-americans could survive in america as citizens. the whole idea of the american colonization society, freedom outside the united states, sort of became his platform. that he really stuck to throughout his presidency. who he never -- i'm sorry, i'm making him president. throughout his political career. he never did deny the fact that he felt ferns should have their freedom. he just was not willing to risk, he knew the political damage anti-slavery could do to his political career and the country. >> he was a slaveholder, correct? >> he was a slaveholder and a slavery man. that caused him great grief all his life because in the north, he'd be criticized as a slaveholder. in the south, he would be criticized for his anti-slavery views. had he taken one side or the other, he might have been better

off as a politician. as abrahamdditional did lincol elected with the northern votes and none of the southern votes. it may have helped clay as a politician. >> the fact that he wasn't willing to do it, and the fact that he stuck to his emancepation ideas despite the criticism. that says a lot. >> what do we know about the number of slaves he held here at ashland and how he treated them? >> he's recorded at the height of having 35. i think when he dies he is still holding slaves. he emancipates some. the most famous case, of course, charlotte who is his servant in washington who doesn't want to return to kentucky. he wants to come back and who stays. and he literally -- she takes him to court and loses. he also gets credit for freeing charles and some of the other slaves here on the estate.

in the long run, he's a -- he buys slaves, too. he spends time at the market here in lexington purchasing slaves, and he's known for the quality of slaves that he purchases. so again, he's one of those people that's dual nature. >> yeah. it's one of those things that -- people used to talk about slavery in kentucky being the model, but it was still slavery. abolitionists came to kentucky and said people say slave here is the mildest. there's still enough here to cause the very heart to sicken. that's really what slavery was. somebody said they heard the lash on the back and heard the screams of the slave, and that was a death knell of liberty. and that was a part of clay that he could never quite see or pick up as much on the other parts of his life. >> i want to spend more on the american colonization society. i read at the first meeting, famous names including andrew jackson, his nemesis, daniel webster, james monroe, francis

scott key who wrote the star spangled banner. how popular was the american colonization movement in this country? >> it was extremely popular. of course, clay is considered one of the major -- he gets federal funding for the resettlement. he promote the idea of resettling african-americans and n haiti and canada. he is known for this. this what -- he becomes a lightning rod in the free black community, in the north, because this is what causes them to unite against henry clay in the sense that why should they have to leave the united states. it's popular in the white community. not popular in the south. >> the library was a deathtrap. >> yes. >> and the people in america that had been slaves or were slaves, their forefathers had been here longer than a lot of the white people -- >> immigrants. >> owners. they were more americans in a

sense. why would we go back, why should we leave our home? >> right. no connections to africa whatsoever. the fact that clay was trying to remove primarily free blacks, the colonization society represented removal of free blacks from the country, not slaves, that was another controversial part. >> going to introduce a third person to our discussion. ashland is open for tours and interprets the life of henry clay. and we have a special guest, avery malone, with us tonight. she is the director of tour operations here. and avery, before you take our viewers on a tour of the first part, let's get a sense of place. ash land today is in what part of lexington? >> we are within the ring called new circle road. we're about a mile and a half from downtown and about a mile and a half from new circle road. we're on the southeast edge of town in a beautiful residential area of lexington. >> and how many acres does the house have today? and how many did henry clay have

at his zenith? >> today we sit on about 17 acres here at ashland. and we have the contract for the first 125 acres that henry clay purchased. at its height, the farm was about 670 acres. >> we should learn little biltmore about his family before -- a little bit more about his family before we go forward. he and his wife had how many children altogether, and did they all live here? >> they had 11 children. however, they did not all live here at the same time. there was a lot of tragedy in the family. all sick of henry and lucretia's daughters would die. only two made it to early adulthood. one of the sons died, as well, during henry and lucretia's lifetime. there was quite a bit of tragedy. >> the house interprets henry clay during what period? >> throughout his lifetime. we mentioned when he was born, and we slow a picture of his

birthplace, and wigo until his of 1852. we talk about his political life, family and farming and legal career. >> we'll see what visittors ashland would see as they tour the first floor of the estate. take us on bait a bit of a tour. >> this is the foyer now. this is where the clay family would have welcomed their guests. the clay family established a long legacy of wishing guests at ashland. we have next the drawing room where the family entertained their guests. this is where we're filming tonight. many of the clays' important guests would have come to this room. it was the most formal room in the house. we also have the dining room where you can see lucrecia's ice cream set on the table. the orange and white china service was given to her by her sister, and it was a gift purchased in france. and she was particularly known for her strawberry ice cream.

i'd like to take you next into the study. in the original house, this room was used by henry clay like a home office for his three careers. henry, of course, was a farmer, a lawyer, and a statesman. i would like to draw attention to henry clay's portfolio and document box. currently we have the portfolio on loan to us from the supreme court. and henry clay would have used these items when he went to washington, d.c. we also have a pair of stirrups that say h. clay, and as a farmer, henry clay believed in breeding the best to the best. and because of the philosophy, 11 kentucky derby winners can draw their bloodlines back here to ashland. next we have the library. henry clay began his legal career in 1797. we have his law license up here on the wall.

and this was issued to him in 1797 in virginia. henry clay would turn to his legal career throughout his life as a source of revenue or income. his legal career and his great oratory really helped define who he was. >> we will be back with you throughout the program. you're going to be available to answer viewer questions and will take us on a tour of other places in the house, avery malone. thank you very much for this view of ashland and henry clay's period. who are some of the famous people he may have hosted here? >> several presidents came here. william henry harrison met with clay here. mark van buren came here two years before they thought they would be running against each other in 1844. four or five days. it's a question really, did they talk about trying to make the texas issue go away because they both issued letters later on that said they opposed the annexation of texas which became a fierce initial that campaign.

did they meet in rooms like this and talk over that? we don't know. basically a lot of famous people including lafayette and others have been through this area. and all of those people wanted to see henry clay, all the foreign visitors who came to america and went beyond the mountains wanted to come to lexington, the athens of the west, cultural center of the west, because it was also the political center of the west with henry clay here. >> our first phone squall from brian in springfield, illinois. welcome to our conversation about henry clay. >> caller: good evening. i want to thank c-span for this series. it's a great idea. i'm calling from springfield, illinois, with a non-lincoln-themed question. i wanted to ask the panel about 1824 and the corrupt bargain charge against henry clay when he backed john quincy adams against jackson and accepted the secretary of state position. do you think that's the reason why we're referring to henry clay as contender instead of

president? >> the 1824 election. >> that was used against henry clay the rest of his life, and it was one of his major political mistakes. there were four people in the race. the constitution says the top three vote-getters if there's not a majority will go to the top. and clay ended up february your on the list. he -- up number four on the list. if he had been speaker at the time he would have been able to use his vast popularity to win by one on one campaigning in the house of representatives, but he didn't. he became the president maker, not the president. and before he left kentucky, before he left ashland, he had said he favored john quincy adams for the presidency. adams had the same viewpoints. at that time, jackson, he called him mere general. and clay always feared the napoleons of the world. he feared that america would elect these generals and they would smuz pretext to take over and become a dictator like napoleon did during his lifetime. clay went to washington knowing

he was going to support adams. his mistake was not supporting adams. in fact, that may have been his best compromise was getting enough states to vote for adams to be president because adams didn't carry but nine states, and 13 were needed. clay did that. adams was elected. then clay made his big mistake and accepted the offer of secretary of state position from john quincy adams. that was the stepping stone to the presidency. half of his people said he should do. it half of his advisers said he shouldn't. he couldn't turn it down. it was used against him as a corrupt bargain. >> andrew jackson was his great nemesis. what was jackson's position on slavery? >> much more hostile than probably one of the first presidents. he marched into florida mainly to clear out what he considered a threat from florida. he's one of his major campaigns into florida was the issue of free blacks with british support living in florida, along with native americans who were

raiding into american territories, taking slaves out of the united states. so he's very hostile toward any idea of much more so than our present. >> nextel phone call is from scott who's watching us in boston. hello, scoot. >> hi, how are you? >> great. do you have a henry clay question for us? >> i do. i went to high school in east port, maine, on moose island. kind of a cool, foggy, dreary island there. very close to canada. we all know in eastport that henry clay had insisted after the war of 1812, the island was taken by the british, he had insisted when he negotiated the end of the treaty the island be returned to the united states even when john quincy adams, who was another negotiator, was willing to let canada have the island, let the british have the island. i'm wondering if any of the historians would know why he was

so adamant on the return of moose island in eastport to america? >> do any of you know the specifics? >> god, i'm not an expert on moose island and why clay -- i do know that clay when making the treaty in the war of 1812, he took the strongest position of all the american delegates, he wanted america to have a strong position. adams was afraid they would not get a treaty if they took such positions so clay tended to get everything he could and i'm not sure on moose island. i hope another historian could tell us. >> we talked about clay's antipathy and antagonism towards the british. >> yes. >> the what can you tell us about that in a general point of his philosophy? >> well, he felt, of course, that the british were still trying to hold on, punish america with the war of 1812, he definitely wanted a war with england. he felt america, despite the fact we had a very small army, small navy, could still beat england so i don't know if that was a source of pride or ego or what that was with clay but i

often wondered if it had something to do with the british asking african-americans to fight against americans during the war of 1812, if that could have been a part of it. >> there's also when he was a young man and apparently his father's grave had just been dug supposedly british soldiers came into the household and they were trying to raid the household and they thrust their swords into the freshly dug grave thinking there might be goods hidden there so he had5 an antipathy toward the british very early. he said the kentucky militia alone can capture canada when the war of 1812 started. he was wrong as he was on other things but when he got to britain after the peace treaty was signed, he met all the british important people and he came back with much little different view of the british. he still feared them and thought they would try to bully america but he now became known as prince hall because he's associated with royalty so much that maybe he -- they felt it

rubbed off on him. >> let's talk about the 1832 election, andrew jackson, when he faced off against him for the presidency. >> in 1832, it was probably one of those elections that clay couldn't win. jackson was popular still. the things that make historians upset with andrew jackson, like his indian policy, his policy towards african-americans and groups like that, those were positives for andrew jackson in his era and in the south particularly and in 1832 clay also faced the fact there was a third party that would take a sizable percentage of the vote, probably mostly for the whig party or the party that would become the whigs and that was the party known as the anti-masonic party. the whole issue of masonry, which we still hear today with movies and things like that about it. the anti-masonic party thought the masons should be done away with. >> clay was a mason. >> clay was a mason and andrew jackson was a mason.

clay was not a practicing mason at the time so it was the lesser of two evils but the third party took votes away from him. he probably would have had a hard time winning anyway. jackson was popular, but then the banking issue came up, jackson vetoed it and clay thought it would be a popular issue that people would go to hip and say this is the right thing to do but he didn't realize that jackson's veto message was a great political message because it made andrew jackson speak for the people and against this corporate monopoly, this bank and clay couldn't win on that issue so clay lost on several levels. >> how close? >> clay got 49 electoral votes, i think jackson got 219. >> c-span has a web site with more details, we have other video you won't see during our live production and we have details about their losing presidential elections and the outcomes. it's cspan.org/thecontenders if you're wanting to learn more history along the way with us

here. let's return to avery malone, the tour operations director at ashland now on the second floor. avery, what do you have for us? >> we're in the henry clay bedroom right now and you can see the bed behind me. this is henry clay's 1830s bed and we have a letter where he talks about how comfortable this bet was and that it didn't even have bedbugs. upstairs we also have henry clay's duelling pistols. these were purchased in 1799 and later altered a bit. we believe that these went to war with his son in mexico. henry was in two duels, one with humphrey marshall and one with john randolph and the duel with john randolph takes us back to henry clay as speaker of the house. when henry was chosen as speaker of the house he was chosen partly because they thought here's a man who can meet john randolph on the floor or on the field. and it happened that they met on the field. john randolph compared henry clay to a character in the novel "tom jones" and basically called him a card cheat on the senate

floor. henry wasn't there to defend himself and felt that no man should have to endure such a dishonor so he challenged john randolph to a duel. unfortunately for henry clay, randolph was really a great shot with pistols and clay was not. but randolph decided that he didn't want to deprive lucretia or the nation of henry clay and decided to shoot at the ground. fortunately nobody was seriously injured in either of henry clay's duals. >> how long did dueling -- was it part of american political life? >> duels continued in kentucky in the 1860s. >> and henry clay knew he wasn't a great shot so why did he get involved in this? >> it was honor. clay had a real sense of honor and if your honor was attacked, you had to defend it. sometime he is would defend it through newspaper stories and letters, he wrote to many of those but sometimes it got so bad he thought the only way to defend it was to challenge someone and if they answered the

challenge then he twice went to the dueling grounds and that would be used against him as well. randolph was particularly -- >> and this is senator john randolph of roanoke? >> yes, randolph of roanoke, a man who was very eccentric, had one of the great quotes, though, about henry clay, it may have been applied to other people, too, but he said that "henry clay is like a rotten mackerel in the moonlight, he both shines and stinks." and that's a great vision there that clay both shines and stunks and randolph disliked they for things he did but he admired clay because clay had the ability toll do things and even in the last part of his life randolph as a dying man wanted to come to the floor of the senate so he said he could listen to this magnificent voice one more time. >> our next telephone call is from david, san francisco. david, welcome. >> caller: thank you. i have one quick comment and that is that anybody who thinks that today's politics is overly divided should really take a

look at the political verbiage in the jacksonian era. but then the question is this is that do you find it a bit ironic that the republican party which was formed out of the whig party has evolved from a party founded by henry clay on the basis of public works and federal investment in local projects into one that opposes all that, and particularly with mitch mcconnell's comments? thank you. >> yes, hi, david. basically the whig party evolved into the republican party. abraham lincoln himself had been a wig and became a republican. it had many aspects of the whig party but in modern days, parties have aspects of both of those. the democratic party has a lot of the central factions of the whig party. some of the republican business oriented sections come from the

whig philosophy so in a sense henry clay lives on in both parties and maybe doesn't live on enough in both parties but he still lives on in both parties. >> comments on that question. >> well, and certainly the -- you mentioned 1830s. you have to rise of the anti-slavery -- new england anti-slavery society who becomes a thorn and he does develop some democratic ideals. people loved henry clay, even if they disagreed with him politically, they loved him as a person. he loved to gamble, which was not uncommon for people of his social class in the south. lecretia was asked if it concerned her that he often

missouri wanted to come into the union. whether it will be a play state or not. maine was about to enter at the same time. >> when the question arrives, it's always been there smoldering like a fire and now the missouri compromise feeds that fire and brings it to the forefront of the debates and debate. slavery, will it continue? will it be somewhere in the nation? . he worked to get it through but it's not really his compromise. it feels like it's done and it

passes a law as part of the constitution. you had no constitution so the american citizen can go anywhere. this is the compromise of clay. everything else was getting ready to fall apart. clay worked out a very convoluted action of that. it satisfied everybody and satisfied nobody at the same time it ends the crisis. he hopes that slavery will not be an issue. clay, slavery is a real thorn in his side. he can never come up with a solution on that and it's a self-inflicted wound because clay was a slave holder. >> right. that makes it difficult for him. he starts out people believing that he's an emancipationist, he's on their side, and then over time he's hated by both the north and south. it's a no-win situation for him. >> we are halfway through our 90-minute discussion on the life and times of the contender, henry clay, who ran for the white house throughout most of his political career, five times

in total, three times as his party's nominee and unsuccessful all the while but with a great effect on the direction and future of his country. going to take a very short break and then be back. ashland is home in lexington, kentucky, to talk more. >> and welcome back to ashland, the home of henry clay in lexington, kentucky, a place that has been preserved and is open for tourists, people who spend their professional lives hoping to curate this place. hope you will be inspired to come down and visit them after our 90-minute discussion tonight about henry clay. let me reintroduce you to our guests, allison turley is a professor of history in georgetown. tell us about your college. >> yes. i'm a professor at the department of pan-african studies. >> you were colleagues at

georgetown? >> we were colleagues at georgetown. >> where is georgetown, kentucky? >> 12 miles. >> when you were colleagues, did you debate a lot? >> we did. we did. but it's hard to debate someone like jim. he definitely is the scholar on kentucky history. i just try to keep up. >> 25 years a kentucky state historian. what does the job entail? >> state historian of kentucky is a self-defined job, but to me it involves writing the history of the state. i've tried to do that. it involves working with people who are writing about kentucky's history and helping them, aiding them, advise, suggestions, try to stay out of their way sometimes. it also entails going around and giving talks on things like this to tell the story of the state and the people who listen here. >> avery milan is with us. he is the director of tour operations in ashland. avery, would you tell us about how many people come to this place every year, how it's

financed and how it's operated? >> well, it changes every year. we have somewhere around 15,000 a year come to see us. we are financed through a variety of methods and means and we're very fortunate to have all of our visitors and all of the friends of ashland who donate to keep us open and for us to tell the public about henry clay and the compromise. >> what year did the place open for tours originally. >> we opened in 1950 for tours, and this was only two years after minette bennett died, she was henry clay's great-granddaught great-granddaughter. she was the one who preserved ashland by studying the henry clay memorial foundation. we were only open downstairs and

then after her son moved out we opened through the house. >> let's take another question from shelby watching us in sacramento, california. >> caller: yes. hello. i'm also a great grandson of a mr. lauer who had helped with the anti-slavery movement and before i get to my main question, i would like to say that he had a hardware store and when slaves would come into town and they needed to be housed, his secret and magical phrase to his neighbors were, we have some two penny nails in, and my grandmother, myrtle lawlor james, she knew there was something magical. she named her horse two penny

nails. what a great country this is and what a terrific thing to have cspan. >> i appreciate it. we do need your question because we have a lot of callers in line. >> yes. yes. i saw masonry emblems on the building in the beautiful city of louisville, kentucky. could you tell us please what association henry clay may have had with that? thank you. >> okay. the city of louisville. >> well, clay's son, henry clay jr., lived in louisville and in lexington and clay jr. used some of his wife's money, again, to basically buy a lot of property when louisville was on the rise so he became quite wealthy as a young man. that son ended up being killed in the mexican warp but clay would visit there and help his

son. it was a rifval of lexington. the river boats there made louisville on the artery of communication and transportation. lexington was kind of in a backwater now because it's not on the water system. his connection with louisville was a mixed one, but he generally supported it. >> next phone call is from willie and willie is in columbus, ohio. willie, you're on. >> caller: thank you. i'd like to know real quickly any connection, any association, i have a he always been under the impression former heavy weight champion cassius clay said that was his slave name. any association? >> allison? >> well, certainly the name cassius marcelus clay was considered an abolitionist in

lexington. ran an anti-slavery newspaper. i don't think there was any family connection. >> yeah. a story for the new yorker was done and i did study on that. the man known as muhammad ali was named for the abolitionist leader, met his family that he came from in kentucky. they took that name because a distant cousin of clay was an abolitionist. they thought that was a good name to take when they had freedom. >> the election of 1840 henry clay tried once again for his whig party nomination. he was defeated in that class by whom? >> wayne henry harrison. >> and harrison turned around and offered clay the vice presidential spot, right? >> i'm not sure he offered him the vice presidency. he offered him his choice of

cabinet positions. >> i was thinking here was his chance to get that close. >> yeah, it would have been ironic aspect of everything. >> so why did he offer him his choice of cab by nets? >> they had been rivals. here's another general, a man of 30 years when he was seeking the presidency. he had had some positions in indiana territory and other places. he had some history of accomplishment but not a great deal and clay is at a time when the whigs think they're going to get a win. their policy looks like it will get you out of the depression. he has a good shot at beating the incumbent, martin van buren. this is one example where henry clay is not a good politician. he's good in congress but he's not a good manager. he's not a good campaign -- he doesn't have a campaign manager. he advises other people. he's out maneuvered by people

from new york. clay was the driver of the boat. that played to clay's advantage. harrison realized that clay was very important in the whig party, obviously. he doesn't want to play on the opposite side. that's why he offered clay the position. clay basically thought he better stay where he is. there's more important things to do there and he doesn't really want to be associated with harrison. >> our next caller is bill in lexington, kentucky. >> caller: hi. i'm calling from lexington. i'm a teacher at henry clay high school which is up the street from where y'all are sitting right now. i'd like to ask whether the panelists think henry clay's reputation as a compromiser hurt his chances of being president

and whether or not his losses as president, a three-time loser, actually made it possible for him to have a greater impact and a more positive one on the country through his long legislative career? thank you. >> thanks. i'm going to ask all three of our guests very briefly to answer that question. we'll start with you allison. >> i think being a compromiser by 1840 is definitely done for him. he is unwilling to change his position and that upset the southerners. his ban on anti-slavery upset the northerners. he tried to sit on the fence and that hurt him more than help him. >> his years as a compromiser ultimately hurt him in his quest for presidency. what do you tell people here? >> well, i'm unsure, but i do know that being a compromiser is

not popular when someone is seeking a position of power. people usually want you to take a strong stance. >> and -- >> harrison said that that was the hot dog of a small mind. clay was not consistent all of his life. he had a bunch of ideas as a young man. he changed on different positions all the time. he gave up for compromise. everybody used that against him. he wasn't consistent. he would compromise to anything as long as he was getting votes. i don't think that was the case. he was willing to take a change and make a change and be willing to say he was wrong. sometimes it cost you and it cost him. >> we had an earlier caller that referenced the treaty of gent and we talked about henry clay's views as a british. we'll see the gent code and what was the treaty of gent's

significance? >> it ends the war of 1812 but not winning it. it gets worse because they thought the british would still be fighting napoleon and napoleon is out of the way by the time the treaty deliberations start. the americans are not negotiating from a place of strength but in a sense they get about the best treaty they can. they do as well as they can. it's one of the best delegations ever. you have john quincy adams, henry clay, three other people of importance there. and it draws out. it takes a long time to come about. given the fact they didn't have a lot to work with, they have a strong treaty of america. it was hailed that way. it didn't hurt that andrew jackson won the battle of new orleans after the treaty was defined. it was almost like the two things came at the same time so it looked like we won the war even though the treaty had been signed before the battle was fought. >> adrienne, you have the gent

jacket. >> we have the gent jacket here. this is the diplomatic issue that he would have been given to go to gent and negotiate peace. this is significant. it's one of the few pieces that we have. this served as an artifact during the time that the kentucky a&m was here. they used this jacket as an artifact then as well. >> go back to telephone calls. next is from denver. michael. >> caller: good evening. my family and i grew up in milwaukee, wisconsin. in the '50s we all went to henry clay elementary school for seven years so he's been a bit of fascination to me. i always went to lexington on business. i'm sorry i didn't realize you were there. i have a question, this very best selling biography on him called "henry clay the essential american by david heidler" is

very popular. have you read it? would it be a good choice for me to learn about henry clay or do you have something else to suggest? thank you very much? >> we just happen to have the book here. it's one of the several books available in the bookstore. they have a number of biographies. i'm going to ask both of you for just starting out, what would be the book you would pick up about henry clay? >> that's the most recent biography. it's the newest biography. if you want political emphasis, probably robert remeny's book on robert clay has political emphasis. if you want to start with something smaller there's benny walker howe did a book years ago, a chapter on henry clay and the american league party. that's a good introduction. compare clay and calhoun and

webster, ralph peterson did a book in the '70s. it's a good balanced view on all three men. it gives you a nice comparison to start with. lindsey apple has done a book on the family legacy of henry clay. apple's book is excellent and it also takes clay's family beyond just his lifetime almost to the present. >> allison, what would you pick up for him or the period? >> for him, triumphant, those bring in daniel webster and some of the other important people of the time. for african-americans it puts it in perspective as far as what's going on. we're waiting for jim's book that's coming out. that will be the next one. >> the next book? >> the great rejected.

henry clay and the american presidency. >> how about that. perfect timing. >> the great rejected is a quote that was said about henry clay, he was the great rejected by the people but he stood out above them because of that. i'm about to finish writing it this month, early next month and then i've got to go through the publication process. about a year away, i hope. >> i thought we could get it finished before the contender series was over this year. >> the current speaker of the house has many of his powers, i think, that he can look back to the speakership of henry clay. he spoke about henry clay recently. let's listen to speaker john boehner. >> henry clay was the first what i'll call strong speaker of the house, the real leader of the house. when -- when our country was founded and the congress was put together, the first speakers over the first 20 years or so came out of the english parliament system and they were more of a referee.

didn't have any real power, but clay was the first real speaker of the house that had some power. and, you know, there's a lot of things you can say about roles of the speaker. henry clay was clearly a very strong speaker. and if you look at the period from 1820 to 1860, there was no one person in the united states more responsible for holding our union together than henry clay. >> by the way, that was from an event that was organized by the folks here at ashland where they invited all living speakers to come and talk about the role of speaker. it was held at the university here. it is on our video library if you'd like to go back and watch it. quite an interesting event that they hosted here. bipartisan discussion about speakers. how did henry clay enhance the power of the speaker? >> by his personality.

no one wanted to debate him. certainly he had the force to win the argument so i think that alone had great influence and power. i don't know if any other speaker would be competitive. >> he also understood the power of the committee assignments. >> the committee, he understood the speaker had the power to put the people he wanted on the committees. he was known to be a fair man as speaker. that was very important. both sides of the aisle respected him and his opinions. he basically was fair in the makeup of the committees, but when he knew there was a certain issue coming up, you could see a slight inclination to put the friends to that issue that he wanted that issue to go a certain way. he understood that early. the rules changed with his backing. gave the speaker more power, cut off debate, limit debate, things like that that allowed him to be

a much more powerful speaker. allison is absolutely correct, it was his force and his will that made it as important as anything else. >> nextel phone call is from raymond in kalamazoo, michigan. hi, raymond. raymond, we're going to move on. let's take a call from lonny watching in chevy chase, maryland. >> caller: good evening. lincoln once referred to clay as his ideal as a states man. i always believed that the two men never met, however, recently i came across a web page which purported to show a book i believe that had been said had been inscribed by clay to lincoln. could the panel comment on this a bit? what is the thinking now? did clay and lincoln ever meet? >> louisville, did he meet him in louisville? >> we don't know basically. there was one person who left a memoir about the turn of the -- between the 19th and 20th

century that said that the president had stopped here in lexington. abraham lincoln married mary todd lincoln who was from lexington. her family was very closely aligned with the clays. her family knew the clays. lincoln came to kentucky several times in connection with the family and the states that followed it. he certainly heard -- heard henry clay speak. whether they met is unknown. can't you imagine what a great time it would have been had they -- you have to think they tried to meet if nothing else. to have lincoln come to ashland and the two of them sit here in the parlor and clay would say something and mr. lincoln would say that's a story and clay would say this is the story and they went back and forth. lincoln never said he met clay. i would think very possibly he would have said it. he did say clay was the ideal

statesman. in 1860 when he was getting ready to write his inaugural he said four things to write the inaugural with. among those four items was henry clay's speech of 1950. clay's effect on lincoln was important. the douglas debates lincoln said his views of henry clay are the views of abraham lincoln, as well. >> we're going to take a call and then we must spend some time talking about the 1844 election. so let's listen to a question from shaw in whiter, california. >> caller: hello. my question is this, i'm a kentuckyian, born and raised in kentucky, the home of rosemary clooney, and i understand from the panel, your two guests, that henry clay is considered the favorite son of kentucky. and although he and lincoln were

members of the whig party, i don't understand how he could be the favorite son and not abraham lincoln who when he met henry b.gestow, he said, you are the little lovely lady who was never mentioned. neither is mentioned ever as being great in their time and yet on the times in which they lived and even today their influence is greatly felt, especially by many african-americans who are historically informed. why is not lincoln? >> allison? can you respond? >> well, abraham lincoln certainly -- kentucky he may have started off as being a friend of kentucky, but certainly when emancipation proclamation is issued he becomes a much hated figure here in kentucky.

so henry clay, who considered himself a westerner but many southerners would choose him over abraham lincoln, he was certainly considered a traitor to the kentucky cause. you mentioned harriet beecher stowe who is a popular kentucky figure. we read and study her, but lincoln and that relationship -- he's much more popular in the north and new england than he ever becomes in the south, particularly at the end of the civil war. >> lincoln in 1860 running on the northern ticket received i want to think five votes in his wife's home county. even his in-laws didn't vote for him. he received something like 1,000 votes in the entire country. to vote for lincoln in 1860 for kentucky ans was like voting for a communist. he didn't have any support here. kentucky to begin the war wanted union and slavery. when he decided by the middle of the war it was going to be a war

against slavery finally, that turns many kentucky ans against the administration. and the state that was a union at the beginning wasn't that at the end. lincoln and his party are on the outs in kentucky for a long period of time. in the 20th century kentucky reclaims abraham lincoln with the building of the memorial to his birth place. so kentucky has reclaimed lincoln belatedly, but he was on the wrong side for most kentuckyians. >> how far is the lincoln birth place? >> 1:15 drive down the interstate. >> in that period of time how long would it have taken to cross? >> it took henry clay to go from lexington to frankfurt which is the distance of 25 miles all day. that's why he was so much in favor of building better roads and canals with federal aid.

>> during this discussion of lincoln we had a brief picture of an artifact that you have here in the collection which has an inscription to abraham lincoln. can you tell us what we are looking at? >> yes. this book is actually called the life and speeches of henry clay and there's an inscription in it that says to abraham lincoln with constant regard to friendship ashland h. clay, 1847. we believe that this book was given to abraham lincoln from clay as sort of a gift to lincoln in exchange for what we believe lincoln would have given a condolence gift to henry clay after his son henry jr. was killed in the mexican-american war. >> but we don't know that those were delivered personally? >> we don't. we don't know that they ever met. there's no documentation to say that they did meet. we know that henry clay did know abraham lincoln. there must have been some type of relationship based on this artifact. >> we have a little less than 20 minutes left in our 90 minutes of henry clay, the first of our

14 contenders in our look at american history. let's take our next call. rob watching us nearby. hi, rob. >> caller: actually, it's robin. >> robin. i'm sorry. hello, robin. welcome to the conversation. >> i actually have three questions. i'll try to go really fast and get out of your way and let your guests answer. one of your guests mentioned clay's contradictions and the apparent connection to abolitionists. did he change his mind or was it political posturing or a lie? second question is another caller mentioned the two cassius clays. i'm curious as to whether it's known whether or not henry clay or any of the council members or immediate family members had any known descene accidents like jefferson. third question, politicians often have political or aristocrat particular lineage.

i'm curious to know if any other people -- >> abolitionists and whether his position changed or was posturing? >> i think it would be wrong to call henry clay an abolitionist. he definitely was not an abolitionist. he was for the idea of emancipation and, no, he never changed his position on that. and as we discussed earlier, especially in the election of 1840, it hurts him. the fact that he doesn't -- he tries to waffle and straddle the fence but, no, he never backs away from his idea of emancipation. >> cassius clay. >> in 1899 clay speaks out against slavery in a letter to the local paper. when he does the same thing again when kentucky is trying to

adopt a new constitution and they were hoping to get slavery abolished, it didn't happen, he takes basically the same stance. over a 50 year period he was pretty consistent. over that 50 years the world had changed around him. his views were the same. >> her question about the two cassius clays. >> i know of no -- >> it was a question about whether or not they were african-american -- >> no, i'm not aware of that. >> so whether or not he had any descendants who were african-american. >> there are over at least one story that appeared something like 40 years after henry clay's death that a woman said she had been a miss stress of henry clay, but i have found nothing to substantiate that story. there were also several henry clays in this area. it may have been she was mixed up with something else. there's a list. you can compile a list of the clays slave and i didn't see her name there. i don't think that happened.

cassius clay, probably not either. it was in russia. that offspring showed up at his door in whitehall. ca cassius clay home in kentucky. >> if anybody said it, politicians had the same connections as far as being related to clay. >> there was no family dynasty in politics? >> i don't think so. >> let me move on. we're going to run out of time here. the 1844 election against james polk. this time clay was successful in securing the whig nomination. everything i've read said it was the dirtiest campaign. what were the issues or was it personal politics? >> both.

clay went in as a favorite on this for a change and james k. polk is the first dark horse candidate for the presidency. he went in hoping to be the vice presidential nominee and he ends up being the presidential candidate. clay was working for two years. there were all kinds of ribbons and buttons and medals that you could do. the democrats coming from behind had to attack and they attacked clay pretty heavily on all of those issues. 1844 election is a perfect storm of bad things happening to henry clay. he writes too many letters and says too many things that makes him look like he was waffling on the issue of texas annexation which was a big issue at the time. all of these issues of drinking, gambling, carousing came back and is used against clay. i think it's more the combination of things that defeat clay. the standard view is that the

texas annexation issue, polk said we need to annex texas. the northern abolitionists and others oppose that. clay opposes annexation unless it takes place on a peaceful basis. he's going against america's manifest destiny. i don't think that defeats him though. he wins some votes as well as loses some votes. it's known as a whole slew of issues and then there's issues of fraud, bad luck, and clay in every election he goes through as well. >> you hear a lot about this being an early example of the politics of personal destruction. was this on both sides? was henry clay a practitioner of those politics? >> i think he was his own worst enemy. he certainly trusted the wrong people i think in the 1844 campaign. he doesn't listen to advisors. this is still a problem for him in 1844. he believes his own press that he is the favorite and he

doesn't see the challenges as seriously. he's not really campaigning. so, yeah, he shoots himself in the foot a couple of times. >> now he opposed texas annexation predicting it would lead to the war of mexico. the great irony the son fights in that war and what happens to his son? >> his son is killed in the war. his son was wise a few years before. he was very depressed. almost like he was trying to go off to fight as much as anything else. he's wounded and tells his men to leave and retreat and they do and he's killed. a letter is sent back to clay from the killing of his son. it hits him very hard and clay makes his anti-war speech. he basically says, i support the troops, i oppose the war. it's a speech that many people consider very courageous speech

at the time because it was going against a lot of the national mood in the south which was one of his constituents areas. >> just took another call. this is molly from bridgeton, new jersey. >> caller: hello. i was wondering if your panelists could talk a little bit about the relationship between john quincy adams and henry clay. >> thank you. >> well, molly, clay and adams were a mismatched couple. adams was a new england puritan. he's critical of everybody including himself. he can only be happy when somebody's talking to himself and even then not happy. he's critical. he's a man of great talent. he speaks many foreign languages. he's well versed in the presidency. the son of a president. there's a great package in his diaries that adams is getting up at 4:00 in the morning, adams is

coming in from a night of hard playing. adam had a great frown with this. this is the botchery of henry clay. he was up at 4:00 in the morning and clay was coming in. this was john quincy adams. henry clay, we talked in this program, was a very different kind of person. they constantly tweaked each other and talked to each other and didn't like each other in a lot of ways but they respected each other. when clay makes john quincy adams president of the united states in 1825 everybody expected they would fight and they would break away from each other, but clay is a very loyal secretary of state and adams gains more respect for clay and clay gains more respect for adams. they were never friends but they were very respectful. >> we're reaching back into the earlier part of henry clay's career. this is a good time to look at one of ashland's most prized possessions. that's the washington goblet.

will you tell us about it? >> yes. we have the washington goblet. this was the item of greatest patriotic display in henry clay's home. it was chipped and broken. he wrote about how he received this from an elderly lady as a gift and it had belonged to george washington through most of the revolutionary war. he used this like an artifact in his house. it was connected to the early nationhood and as an object to represent george washington. washington was a great inspiration to our country and hoped to inspire patriotism in people who visited ashland. >> we're quickly running out of time here. since we have you, let me ask you about henry and -- clay and his wife and how often they lived here together. he had such a long political career requiring him to be in washington so frequently. did his family move to

washington with him or did they remain behind most of the time? >> his family did go with henry clay to washington but around the 1830s was the last time she would go with him. there were children and grandchildren here to occupy her time. she wasn't the one to really enjoy the limelight. she was not heavily into fashion and attention. she did enjoy the solace that ashland provided here. in the later part of henry clay's life, the last half, i believe he was gone as much as he was home. some had surprised that henry clay was addicted to travel which is one thing we'd probably all like to do more of, but henry was gone quite frequently to campaigns. henry was gone working in washington and, for instance, trips to see his daughter in new orleans. >> next call is in kentucky, town of paducah.

this is gerald. >> caller: hi. my last name is watkins. henry clay was my seventh cousin. his grandmother, sarah watkins, was a sister to my fifth great-grandfather john watkins so i'm real proud of henry clay and that connection but my connection is the three times he won the nomination it seems like the timing was really not good for his candidacy. they seemed doomed. was there -- do you believe there was a presidential election during his time of prominence that would have been better timing that he could have won the presidency? >> i think he could have won in 1840 pretty reasonably. and in 1848 zachary taylor is going to be the whig nominee and hen be ri clay opposed the army general. he opposed zachary taylor because taylor had done nothing other than being a general. he had nothing in his background. he had never even voted before he ran for president.

clay very reluctantly tried to get the nomination in 1848 and failed. the democrats were divided that year. clay was quoted by someone as saying the years he could get the nomination his friends basically deserted him. clay saw the backer of taylor as a betrayal of all he did. >> let's move ahead to 1850. henry clay's last big effort on public policy and the compromise of 1850. what was that compromise all about? set the stage for us about what was happening in the country. >> 1850, this decision about the expansion of clay, how clay's decision to come into slave holding. the idea of the fugitive slave

law, of course, becomes one of the breaking points. the idea of california, whether or not the decision ends up being california can make its own decision about whether or not slaves can be held in the state. missouri comes in. >> mexico. >> new mexico and arizona. exactly. so, again, we are now truly into the manifest destiny where the united states reaches from coast to coast, and for african-americans the slave law becomes a major issue in american politics leading up to the civil war. >> we only have about four minutes left but on the compromise of 1850, so important, henry clay was not successful. he was reaching the end of his strength and health and how did it all turn out? >> i think it says something about henry clay. in 1849 he comes back to the senate. he had been home leaving this

peace in ashland. he has nothing to gain. not going to run for president anymore. he's going to save the country in 1850. in missouri he had broken up all of the pieces and got them passed one by one. in 1850 he had an omnibus bill and says let's pass this at once. clay goes off to rhode island and the bill passes piecemeal under wallace. clay was supported on this that this made peace into his lifetime. he died a year later. >> henry clay dies in 1852. he was buried where? >> in lexington. >> nearby. his funeral was quite an event. 1,000 mile train cortage.

>> his trusted servant charles is at his side to the very end with the funeral. he viewed, people came from all over. the trains are coming in and thousands of people in lexington for the funeral. so it's national news. >> the thing about that monument, there's monuments to clay. i think he's got more images in the nation's capitol than any other individual. "atlantic magazine" in 2006 said he was one of the 100 most influential people of all time. the fact that henry clay kept a divided nation together. the nation is still one nation united, still a working democracy. it's still trying very hard to live up to the spirit of henry clay. >> time for a very quick call from bowling green, kentucky. do you have a quick question for

me? >> caller: yes. my question, why do you suppose andrew carney was not interested in a woman's perspective on slavery? the reason why i ask that question, european victorian woman by the name of harriet martineau had traveled to america, to kentucky in 1835 and she -- >> claire, i'm going to interrupt you. we understand the history. we have very little time. >> she's sent by brittain so that's enough for clay not to like her but i would certainly say that just the southern principles about women's place. >> he loved women. by all the influence, women of america liked henry clay. despite all of the rumors and everything else, everybody uniformly said women liked henry clay, would have voted for him. martineau came here to ashland.

she didn't like the clay children but she liked clay when she got here. that was part of the nation and america of his time, too. contradictions and controversy around henry clay. >> views of why henry clay was important for the country? >> because he polarized and made america make a decision on slavery. the 1850 compromise which did pass african-americans fled to canada. it increased the public awareness of slavery in america so that was his major contribution, i think. >> just skimming the surface of a 49 year political career of henry clay. our first of 14 contenders men who didn't achieve their quest for presidency but changed american history. i'm going to say thanks to our guests, allison and henry and the tour director here. a couple other quick thank yous.

the henry clay memorial foundation for preserving ashland and sharing it with us. deborah core, eric brooks who is the curator. outstanding help to our crew in putting this program together and their colleagues, the volunteers and staff here in ashland. a personal thank you to cspan's former board chairman bob meyer who traveled to kentucky to be with us, history buffs as they are to kick off the first of the contender series. thanks for being with us as we learned more tonight about the life of henry clay.

tonight on cspan 3's american history tv and primetime, the start of two weeks of our series, the contenders. they ran and lost but changed political history. programs about henry clay lead off the series. we will show you a profile of the former house speaker from kentucky known as the great compromiser in the early 19th century. we'll also tour his ashland estate in lexington. also, senator mitch mcconnell talks about the legacy of henry clay as a member of the house and senate for over four decades and then a look at the compromise of 1850 and the impact of slavery on the compromise that preserved the uchb on. all of this coming up on american history tv on