be americans. penny,major heather thanks for sharing your story with us. ney: thank you. >> interested in american history tv? visit our website at c-span.org/history. you can see our upcoming schedule and watch the recent program. american artifacts, road to the white house the wind, and lectures in history and more at c-span.org/history. c-span's american history tv is remembering september 11, 2001 through the stories of americans who were at the white house, the capital, the pentagon, and in the skies above washington dc. next, rear admiral david thomas takes us inside the burning pane pentagon where he search

for his best friend. steve: admiral dave thomas, as you reflect on the morning of september 11th, 2001, how did your day begin? admiral thomas: i was in the navy's defense review. i had been there for about -- well this was culminating an 18 month project. so i've been on the job for about 17 and a half months. my day began with a series of meetings and i was representing my boss in a meeting with another admiral in the pentagon. and we were discussing the navy's contribution to national defense and really just putting the finishing touches on our input to the defense review. steve: explained that project . what was the review all about and what was your specific role? admiral thomas: every four years, all the services and the joint staff and the department of defense have a report to congress. it is quadrennial hely.

a review of our defense posture in the force structure that supports it. this was to be a policy-based review. i had been in the strategy and policy directorate on the navy staff. i became the executive officer of this under a navy flag officer. so myself and 23 other officers had been working this project for almost 18 months. and we were just about at endgame on september 11. steve: so this is just another in a series of meetings, pretty typical for you and your job. admiral thomas: it was a typical, busy day. i had an apartment close to the pentagon. i drove to work. i was in north parking. i parked. i came in, started my day. at 5:00 at my desk with everyone else. we were just about done with this project and we were very proud of our work.

it was a really good, well executed project. steve: so the first plane hit the first tower. where physically were you? how did you get word of what was happening in new york? and with the first plane, what was your reaction? admiral thomas: i was in a meeting, as i mentioned, with a navy admiral, a very senior navy admiral, and several other five officers. i was probably the junior guy in the room. the admiral's aide came rushing into the room, interrupted the meeting, and said, sir, you got to watch this. turn on the television. and we watched the first plane flight into one of the twin towers. and the immediate reaction in the room was that this was some tragic air traffic control miscue or some sort of accident so we turned it off. got back to work. and subsequently, the aide came back minutes later and said, sir, something else has happened. turn the television on. and we watched the second plane fly into the second world trade center building.

,he admiral stood up and said gentlemen, ladies, this meeting is over. essentially man your posts. there will be some sort of response required of us and we must be ready. the meeting adjourned. and everyone walked or hustled to their respective offices in the pentagon. steve: let me stop you that point. when you saw the second plane hit the second tower, for you personally, what were you thinking? what was your immediate reaction? admiral thomas: it was clear that this was no accident, that somehow this was intentional. this was not -- couldn't possibly be a coincidence, an act of terror was the first thing that popped into my mind, that somehow this was a coordinated attack on the united states. at least on those buildings in new york city. and you start thinking, how should we respond? what could the navy's role be in

this? the washington, the pentagon, the navy staff, what can we do? how should we respond? how can we help? steve: for those who have not been to washington, obviously, they've seen pictures of the pentagon, but where physically was your meeting and explain the physical structure, the different rings inside the pentagon. admiral thomas: sure. the pentagon is a five sided building, a series of concentric rings with the center ring being that outermost ring. the e ring, the d ring, the c ring, the b ring, a ring. inside the a ring is outside, essentially courtyard. a nice courtyard. trees and grass and benches. so the series of concentric rings in between the rings you're actually outside. it's not just one solid building in some spots. for example, you have e ring and d and c ring and then your you are outside between the c and b rings in some sections.

so i was physically in a meeting in the e ring near the first corridor. so when this meeting adjourned, i walked from the first corridor in the ring along the outside of the e ring to my office all the way over on the six corridor on the fourth floor which is where my office was. steve: it's shortly after 9:00. your meeting is quickly adjourned. you're heading back where? admiral thomas: to the defense review. so the sixth corridor, fourth floor in the pentagon in the c ring. so i walked the outermost ring of the pentagon. the e ring on the fourth floor. actually a newly renovated wedge , of the pentagon that was being refurbished. ironically, that's where the plane flew into minutes after i got past it and got to my desk. stopped in, said hello to some friends, checked on some projects, i wouldn't call it a leisurely stroll. it was a businesslike walk.

conducting business along the way from the meeting to my office and then again, minutes later, all this was gone. some of my friends were gone as well. steve: do you remember what time you sat down at your desk? admiral thomas: not exactly. it would probably be 9:15, 9:20 or so. sat down at my desk, called my best friend. he was in the navy operations center. we usually met for coffee around 9:30, 9:45. i said, hey, turn on the television. check this out. there is something going on and you need to know about this. then i almost immediately after that there was a shock and vibration and sort of a rumble like as if a big train had just gone by or a little tremble or had just occurred. large enough to know that this

is something that just happened. there's been some sort of detonation. some sort of bomb or heaven for bid a plane in the pentagon. i dashed off a quick note to mom, telling her i was ok. hit send and got up and went to see what happened. steve: you had never of course felt something like that before in your years at the pentagon. admiral thomas: not at my years at the pentagon. i felt earthquakes before. it was sort of like that. sort of a rumble, a dizzying feeling, almost as if the world had turned upside down. but it certainly changed and shifted. but the ground under your feet is not steady. it's uncertain. it was the feeling. steve: so what happened next? admiral thomas: well, as i mentioned, i was on the fourth floor.

there was a stairwell down to the first floor to the outside between the b and the c rings. so i wanted to be outside of the building if it was going to fall . i did not want it to fall on me. i ran outside and looked up again and i was between the b and the c rings and there was smoke and i had a direction to go. so i headed towards the smoke in the concentric ring on the inside of the pentagon moving counterclockwise. steve: and clearly, by this time, the pentagon between 9:00 and 9:30 is fully staffed. everyone who's on the job has been there or was there at the time. admiral thomas: absolutely. steve: do you remember what the faces look like as you were leaving your office, heading outside? was there a sense of panic or fear or uncertainty, what do you remember?

admiral thomas: it's a big place. the population is not that densely packed. but the closer i got to the scene of the -- the airplane striking the pentagon, the more people you saw coming the other way. just panicked in many cases, calm, but deliberate moving away from this fire. so again, it's a pentagon. there's angles. you turn one corner in the corner where i had just looked up in their smoke became this accident scene. in thinking about it over the years, it was the heavy things. there wasn't fire. i am now outside. you have a hole punched by a big tire. i still hadn't put the airplane

piece together in my head. i just ran to this calamity, the smoke. in the windows inside what is the c ring, the innermost wall of the c ring, there's fire on all four floors and smoke, lack ned smoke. there are big holes in the side of the building. and some snapshots in my mind as if they're happening right now, there's five little dots. your mind tries to process these things as you are moving. so five little dots in my processing it. that wasn't five little dots. that was a foot with black toe polish. or nail polish. seaweed.what's that seaweed doing waving in the creek or the stream? oh, it wasn't seaweed. it was a piece of someone's head

with hair washing in some kind of burst fire main or fresh water pipe. or what's that pile of -- it was an animal killed there or someone field dressed a deer? that used to be a person. as you are running pass this to find out to help these images burned on your head remain forever. it's as if it had just happened. so there's again, in my mind, i picture -- and i can still see the sky -- this guy had seen everyday, one of the custodial folks at the pentagon, a small, old guy, wonderful bag, said hi to me every day when i saw him, always nicely dressed and very polite. we exchanged greetings for a year and a half in this job. and here's this really old guy dragging two really heavy fire extinguishers to the scene of

this fire. i can still picture that guy. never saw him again. so you asked me about what are the people doing. there is a stream of people going to the scene of this horror, this inferno. of course, there's people leaving, going away from it. some of them clearly had been involved and some of them were caught up in the let's get the heck out of here. the closer i got, the clearer it was where this plane -- it was now apparent it was a plane. a big piece of the fuselage, a big chunk of the forward tire and its main mounts had punched through the wall and are now resting outside between the b and the c rings. so it's clear that this is the navy operations center. this is where i mentioned my friend that i had just been on the phone with, this is a guy i roomed with at the naval academy, my best friend -- my best man at my wedding, this was

my best friend. this is where he works. steve: his name? admiral thomas: captain bob dolan. my best friend. he was in there. i mentioned i was in the strategy and policy division when i first got to the pentagon and they stood this organization. this quadrenniall defense revie. we had both gone to command our ships together at the same time. i finished just a little bit before he did and got that great job. and then i got pulled out of that job to be part of the special project. and he ended up in my job. i mentioned that they had just refurbished this wedge of the pentagon. he and his strategy cell were going to be in office in crystal city. he called me and said, do you know anybody that could find us room in the new operation center so we can have a office in the pentagon? so i got him his office. so he had my job in an office where i had arranged for him to be.

i called him and said, turn on the tv and watch what is going on. so i was really interested in finding my friend at that instance. it all kind of clicked, oh, my gosh, my friend is in there. some of the big heavy pieces of the plane punched through the e ring, the d ring, made it through the c ring and there their last little bit of momentum punched a hole through the c ring and there were places you could crawl into to try and help or see if there was anybody that could be helped. so i crawled into one and there was a big metal door and i could hear people counting on the other side and screaming. so i picked up the first thing i could find, this mental stanchion, and started try to bust into the door. i could hear them. the yelling got louder because they could hear me banging and then it got quiet.

because i wasn't making any progress. my assumption was they figured another way to get out. i hoped. i crawled in a little bit further. by this point, the conduit, the plastic that sheets the wires in the ceiling and some of the other plastic things were starting to melt. i took my shirt off and wrapped it around my head. these drops of plastic and metal are starting to hit skin and hit back and things. i was wearing a uniform so much this.r to they changed the material, a little bit so it's not quite as synthetic. it's a little more fire resistant. the shoes i was wearing were core foam. it's a wonderfully high-gloss shine. but not meant for firefighting or being in a hot environment. so they started to get a little uncomfortable. again splash some water on them. splash some water on my head in

and crawled in a little further into the pentagon trying to find my friend. trying to find anybody. here?y in planes are certain to get sick. the smoke gets thicker in the hot gas has become intolerable. i wasn't making any progress in there. i crawled into another hole but it was hotter in there. i was a little reluctant to stay there too long. i could see exactly where my friend's desk should have been. flames are shooting up. it's clear, if he is there, he has about had it or close to. i'm trying to get as close as i can, screaming for him. somebody saw me and came running

out past me. that was great news. an army officer covered with just dust and blood. so as i'm focusing 20 yards into this office space, it's on fire and falling apart. i notice there's this head, the sort of -- it was surreal. it was like this pretty odd head-shaped entity staring at me. the eyes just open and staring. and it blinked. suddenly i realized what i was looking at was someone who was trapped and couldn't move probably couldn't speak and in shock. so this person is trapped and it's a wall has fallen on them. i'm trying to push this wall up and get enough room for him to squeeze out and his desk has collapsed on him and his chair. i'm trying to lift this up and move this. it wasn't budging. as i am screaming for someone to come help me, i'm screaming because this guy's going to go.

there are flames at his backside and there's -- you can breathe. it's too hot. so as i'm screaming and i hear this noise behind me and there's this other naval officer crawling in on his hands and knees, crawling in on his belly like a combat crawl. what do yous got? what's going on? i point and i say they're a guy trapped over there and i can't get this up. this guy had never met before, dave tarantino, he gets on his back and there's this hot molten plastic and metal dropping on him and me. he is faceup lying on his back and he basically leg presses this desk high enough for this man to get freed up, just enough to slide down and escape. so his foot gets caught. he's almost clear and his foot gets caught and leaves his shoe behind and he slides and we take

them outside. and it was a guy i had never met before. a guy named jerry hinson, a former naval aviator retired in the navy staff. worked in the same complex as my friend. he got outside and we got him some medical attention. and in the minute or two, as we try to catch our breath, me and dave tarantino, you look up in the sky and it's the same beautiful, beautiful september morning that it was when i got out of my car to start my day. it was dark when i got out of my car. and there's the clearest blue sky. it was just did that just happened? and i know i'm going back into find my friend. i knew he was not done. at that point, i was so fearful

that i would never know him. and the story that just happened would never be known to jerry hinson. it was just spontaneity. i reached over and grabbed his name tag and pulled it off and stuck it in my pocket. introduced myself and said it's great to meet you. i'll see you later. and went back into try to find my friend. at that point, there was some compressed gas cylinders that started to explode and some pieces of the ceiling started to come down. so that was -- it was no more of that. no more going in to pull people out of that part of the building. so then began an endless day of trying to find people. occasionally finding people who were lost, who had wandered into smoke-filled areas, who could not figure how to get out and got them out or got them direction and then looking for other folks.

it was, again, it's a huge office building. and i'd never seen it empty before. but at that point, it's probably an hour after the thing had begun. it was completely empty and anyone who is going to get out had left, was out or had been rescued. so there's this sort of foggy, smoky cloud and empty offices everywhere, as if the people had just been instantly removed. clearly, a phone had been left down or a memo had been halfway written, a danish or a cup of coffee not consumed by halfway gone. it was -- again, it's something that is indescribable. it was as if humanity had just left and there it was. steve: the gentleman you pulled

out, the retired aviator. admiral thomas: jerry hinson. great guy. great guy. i had never met him before. his best friend also died that day. his pooka mate, the guy he shared a small office with. jerry lived and jack punches died. they were literally feet apart. and why one and not the other, it's like me and my friend. why him and not me? ironically, i saw the flight path of the airplane that flew into the pentagon. it actually made -- it had made a pass over the pentagon and had come into high and come in for another attempt. the first path that it took, if it had been lower would have taken it into my corridor, into the corridor where i was sitting. it would've, i hope, spared my friend.

the ironies of that day are legion. so anyway, the day continued. i was trying to set up triage and trying to assist with finding other folks. i saw some really incredible first responders. the pentagon police force was magnificent. no one knew what was going on. no one knew. we probably at this point -- everybody had either seen or heard of the second airplane into the twin towers. was there going to be a second airplane into the pentagon? and we could hear airplanes occasionally fly overhead. were they combat or patrol? were they are folks try to protect the pentagon? was it a second attack? we didn't know. so the fear was high. but no one ran off station. no one stopped trying to help. it was, again, and incredible display of bravery, especially on the part of the pentagon

police folks. they were wonderful. they were just great. steve: did anything in your years in the military, your training, your experiences on navy ships, prepare you for what you saw and what you personally had to do on 9/11? admiral thomas: well, did anything? i would say everything did. that's what you do on a ship. warfare officer. a ship officer. and that's what you do. when you are on a ship, there's no fire department you can call for help or no ambulances going to come. our training, everything we train to and teach our younger officers is to overcome the fear, the instinctive go away from the disaster, go away from the fire, to overcome that and then synchronize up with the rescue and firefighting effort.

that's what we do as sailors. that was -- i'll never forget seeing the other navy folks going to the scene as others rightfully less trained perhaps rightfully escaped and got to safety. steve: that was my next question. what motivated you to go -- obviously, you had a friend that you wanted to find out if he was safe. as everyone else was leaving, you are heading into the scene. admiral thomas: it wasn't just me. that's important. there were many like me. it was training. you mentioned my friend, but it's training in the selfless, the service that we sign up to be a part of. that's who we are. that's why we are in the military. that is our ethos. that is what we do. i'm very humbled by what i saw

that day, the heroism i saw and the willingness to abandon personal safety and participate, not knowing what might come crashing down, but to try to help those who might be trapped or those who might be still alive but unable to move. it was just incredible. i'm very humbled by what i saw. to this day, it moves me very deeply. steve: so you try to get back in. obviously, the conditions had worsened. the flames were intense. the heat was intense. what happened next and what were you thinking? admiral thomas: clearly, there was no way to get into that -- there was no way to get access in that direction to that part of the building. the thought was to try to find another way to get into the navy operations center and find my friend and find others who might be trapped in there. big pieces of the building had started to come down at that point.

so the thought was -- there started to be some coordination from the leadership. some professional first responders from fairfax county, for example. i then subsequently saw in haiti a years later, it was magnificent to see some of the same folks responding, running to the scene. those leaders and those trained professionals started to arrive on station. a lot of activity outside where the low port is and the grassy part by the highway. not a lot of that made its way inside at first. there we started. the fbi came. the first responders from arlington and fairfax county fire departments. i'll never forget one guy from the arlington fire department. he was the first guy that i saw

had water and he came over and offered it to me. and it was the first water i had to drink in two hours. i'll never forget the arlington fire department. but at that point it was clear again that anyone probably was going to get out had gotten out. and so there was a sense of relief to be alive. of sadness to know that there were people who weren't alive who started the day not having any thought that this could happen and yet it did. i'm often puzzled by the term "victim" when we talk about the pentagon or the twin towers or the field in pennsylvania. those brave people. i don't think of anyone in that

whole tragic day as a victim. a victim is someone who gets hit by a meteor when they're walking down the street, a victim of can't do or gets mugged or route, those are victims. the people who died on 9/11 they weren't victims. they were casualties of an act of war, an attack on in my case our military headquarters. so it was interesting that afternoon to still be trying to help and to suddenly -- it would sort of gel there were folks that were trying to reconstitute the pentagon and the navy staff and the navy staff case folks had walked up the hill to the navy annex. the arlington annex where the headquarters for the marine corp.

are and the marines like they are are brothers. they offered up space and we reconstituted the navy staff there. the vice chief of naval operations was in charge, in concert with the chief of middle operations. so folks went either stayed at the pentagon and tried to help or went up to reconstitute our operations at left seat, right seat with the marine corp. it was a magnificent display of what you do in a crisis. you plan for it and train for it and to see it actually happen was just magnificent. this was -- i mentioned i was on the quadrennial defense review. our report to congress the secretary of defense's report to congress was due on the 30th of september. and sort of a gallows humor talking to some guys as we were trying to figure out what we could do to help.

someone said that's it for the report. i guess they will be a delay. that was the ground swell from the action officers, the younger guys. and the word quickly got out and rightfully. it was, again, such a motivating moment, the definding moment for who we are when not only aren't we going to delay it, we're going to turn it in on time was the direction. not only are we going to turn this thing in on time, we've now got to retool it completely because the world's just changed for our defense. so it just began an incredible couple of weeks as we redid the whole project. of course, we had a good foundation for it. again it was a great reminder , that this was our military headquarters. we got attacked. but this is the united states. we're not going to let this stop us. we're better than that. of course, we'll all come to work tomorrow and figure out how

to work around this. but we have a job to do and it just got harder. that's our challenge, but we're up to it. that's what leaders do. again, i have always been proud of being in the united states armed forces. i've never been prouder than i was on that day when i saw the leadership and the willingness to sacrifice on behalf of shipmates and fallen comrades. it was magnificent. it was a day that changed everything. steve: what a adjectives who you would you use to describe the scene? we saw the firefighters trying to rain down the smoke which continued for hours. you were right there. what was it chaotic, was it organized? how would you describe the scene as the early and mid afternoon hours evolved? admiral thomas: it was very deliberate. i think to call it pandemonium or chaos would be a huge disservice and not accurate.

there were small acts playing out. i mentioned that there were four or five people caught behind a door that couldn't get out of a burning ilding. -- burning building. it was a vault for secure material. so you've got that playing out. but right next to that you've got another act occurring where someone's dragging out a person who's just been crushed and he's taking them to triage. and then further down in this scene you've got folks deliberately combing, but at a quick pace leaving the operations center, the chaos, the flames and the burning building. but very deliberate. not screaming, not yelling. not in panic, but very deliberately in a focused way

exiting to the second route they had been trained for. i would say almost universally folks did what first of all they were trained to do and what they should have done. it was a great example of people doing the right thing. not just for them, but for the common good. i don't mean to put too fine a point on it. i'm really proud of how we responded in the immediate minutes after and in the ensuing days. i'm very proud of that. steve: so bring your story back to your best friend, captain robert dolen. admiral thomas: yeah. so, didn't find him. i had driven to work that day and my car was caught up in the first responder and subsequent response emergency vehicles. so i couldn't get to my car.

so at 2:00 in the morning i'm covered with soot and i only had one shoe and my uniform's in tatters and i'm just exhausted. and i have no car and my apartment is three miles away. so i walked to the highway, walked across the highway. walked to arlington and stuck out my thumb and for the first time since i was probably 17 hitchhiked at 2:00 in the , morning dressed like that. there's not many cars, a cab drove by and it stopped and then backed up. and i had no money. he said that's ok. hop in. were you just down at the pentagon? i said, yes, i was. he said, well, god bless you and i'm glad you're alive.

i said me too. he drove me home. didn't charge me anything. and got to my apartment. had a zillion answering machine messages and started plowing through them until i got to my best friend's wife, lisa. who said we haven't heard from bob. have you heard from bob? and there were six of those, six or seven and i couldn't listen to them because i knew many my heart and my mind i knew. so i called her and said i was just there. there's parts of the pentagon that are still sealed off. i'm sure he's ok. i made something up. but he wasn't ok. an fbi agent found bob's naval academy class ring. that was the only thing that was found that you could actually say it was still bob's.

so in my navy career i've done scores of burials at sea. and they've all been cremains. and it's a wonderful ceremony for deceased former military people of all services. you go out to sea, you pass 100 fathom curve and we stop the ship and have a ceremony. it's a wonderful service and a great tribute to our deceased service members. but they've all been cremains. a couple months after 9/11, i had the honor to accompany my best friend's remains to the 100 fathom curve off of mayport, florida, his favorite home port and mine too. it was the only full casket burial at sea i've ever done.

bob's remains -- i couldn't say what was this in there, but not much. i had the honor with bob's brother-in-law, a navy captain, to bury bob at sea. he was my best friend. and there's not a day that goes by that i don't miss him. i stopped wearing my navy ring that day. i didn't mean what it meant to me after that. it was a ring you get as a second class shipman. -- midshipman. it's a big tradition thing. it just didn't mean anything to me after that. i stuck it in my pocket. it was sort of a talisman, a lucky coin at that point. i couldn't wear it ever again and didn't. so, i miss him. a great guy. and a much better naval officer than i've ever dreamed of being.

and a great dad and a great husband, too. and a great friend. steve: how do you explain this to his wife and his kids? well, you know, it's funny. we talk about service to our country. wherever i'm in an airport people will shake my hand and say thank you for your service to our country because i'm wearing a uniform. i think of service to our country not as just wearing a uniform, but as what you do for your country. the most incredible service i've ever seen was done by bob's wife lisa who raised their two children, becka and beau. they're wonderful young adults now. she picked up the pieces and picked up the piece of her broken heart and put that aside

to continue to keep a home, to keep bob's memory alive. she's a true hero and others like her. but she's sort of the archetype of this hero. of all the things that came out of this, the wonderfulness of it is what lisa's done in the aftermath of 9/11. service to your country's got not much to do with just wearing a uniform. i'm proud to serve in this uniform. but there's a whole lot more to serving your country than just putting on a uniform. steve: you were reunited with jerry hinnson and dave tarantino at the smithsonian. how did that evolve? admiral thomas: i was approached by the smithsonian they asked if i had saved my uniform and i had forgotten when i got back to my apartment i bundled it up in a trash bag and tossed it in the back of my closet.

so i was happy to give that. less reluctant to give away the name tag that i pulled off of commander tarantino. dave tarantino. it meant a lot to me. i'm not a being momento keeper, but that was a momento i was going to keep. they were very persuasive in a kind way and explaining how important that would be as part

of history. of history. so i donated it gratefully, donated it to the smithsonian. dave and i and jerry hinnson had never met before that day. to get acquainted after something like that was really interesting. and moving experience for me to go to jerry hinnson's home and see his family and to know that it was like it's one of those it's a wonderful moment to know he wouldn't have been there if not for dave tarantino and i and that just venn dip to us happened to find him and happened to be the right guys to get him out and that happy ending. that wonderful family ending and embraceing this wonderful man never would have occurred. there's many ironies. jerry hinnson had flown multiple missions over vietnam and only to die at a desk in the pentagon would have been the irony of it all. reviewadrennial defense was a great project and how is proud to be a part of it. even more poignant to me is what happened over the ensuing after at the pentagon. i was on another tour at the

pentagon for another 12 months. every day i would go down and stare at the rubble, the destroyed part of the pentagon. and word got out that the secretary of defense, secretary rumsfeld had thrown down a challenge to the construction crew to remove the rubble and let's bring this place back within a year. i must tell you to watch that activity in the wake of all the death and the attack in the injured folks to watch that , reconstruction, the removal of the destroyed and the rebuilding of the pentagon. my office, my post, to watch that was incredibly inspiring and frankly kept me and others going as we tried to put the pieces back of our personal lives and our offices and our

destroyed projects and destroyed groupings of staff officers. steve: for those who go to the smithsonian and look at the exhibit, including your momentos, what do you want people to take away from that? admiral thomas: well, first of all, i would like to think that people would never forget that we as a nation must always pull together in time of crisis and focus and be united in first protecting our values, but also protecting our nation. that's a delicate balance. that's an important balance to achieve. but that's one of the most incredible and powerful messages that institutions like the smithsonian and the smithsonian specifically help promote.

here in our nation's capital surrounded by all those moments to our nation, the goodness of our nation, to have this tangible reminders of how vulnerable those freedoms are, our liberties are, and how important it is to not let that vulnerability drive us to some bad behavior. i think keeping that message alive in the setting of the smithsonian i think is the most powerful piece of the whole display. so i would hope that when people visit 9/11, the display, they would remember that our freedom doesn't come without some cost. that there's a need to be vigilant and to protect our freedoms. but also to remember that those

freedoms are more than just words and more than just being able to do whatever you want. they are found in our constitution. they require all of us to actively participate and to support each other and our nation. so that's what i take away from the pentagon memorial or the pentagon -- the 9/11 piece of the pentagon display at the smithsonian. steve: the navy of course with the uss in new york, the uss -- uss new york, the uss arlington, what does that mean for you and why did the navy feel compelled to have these two vessels? admiral thomas: we name our ships after great battles, great leaders. great locations. significant locations and events in our nation's history. so always have something tangible to inspire. if you are part of a crew,

something remind you of the greatness of our nation and the greatness of our people. and our ability to respond to challenges and overcome. i'm very proud of all of our ships and all of our sailors. i'm especially proud to have the uss new york and the precommissioning unit of the uss arlington as part of the ships that i work with every day. steve: when you went to bed early in the morning on september 12th, first of all, did you go to bed? di you get some sleep? admiral thomas: no. i couldn't sleep. too much to think about. too many people to think about and try to remember to call or write a note to. my mom. lisa dolen. my kids. so there was lots to do. i took a shower and got to it. steve: so what was racing through your head? admiral thomas: uncertainty

about my friends, but certainty. uncertainty about what to do next, how to help, what my officemates were going through. we had no accounting for many of them. so trying to muster everyone and make sure everyone was ok and had a place to stay or knew where to go for work. many folks were in the same boat i was, where they couldn't get to their car. so thinking that through, taking care of your shipmates, taking care of the people you work with, and then thinking about the mission. we've got this project. where are we supposed to go? where will we work tomorrow? our office became part of a crime scene, so we sort of worked around that a bit and found additional space or another place to work. all of our files were inside this crime scene so you can't get there.

so all those sort of big picture and small, narrowly focused thoughts at the same time. steve: and at what point in the day were you able to put the entire day's events into perspective? new york, the pentagon, the nation. the president returning and addressing the nation and all of us began to unfold. you are one part of this story. when did you collect it in totality? admiral thomas: it took weeks. it was important to get back to work and do our job and make our part of the response to this happen. to sit back, or not sit back, but to take a pause and develop an overall picture of what had happened -- i didn't watch tv, i didn't have that opportunity for some weeks to sort of catch up on all the rest of the pieces of this.

i think many people that i worked with were very intent on doing what we needed to do to be part of, first of all, completing our project but part of the bigger national military response to what had occurred. it was clear from that first meeting that was adjourned when that second plane flew into the building that i described earlier, it was clear that there would need to be some military response or some response that would involve the military in a big way. so ensuring that i did my best and did everything i could to make that happen correctly was the absolute focus of my attention and efforts. i mentioned earlier that everything changed that day. i've always loved the military. i love what i do in the navy, but i've never felt that it was more important to stay focused and give it my all than i did after 9/11.

steve: do you remember that day as if it were yesterday? admiral thomas: absolutely. i dream about it. i think about it. i try to draw lessons from it, and in some ways, draw strength from some of the things i saw occur that day. so yes, i remember every moment of that day as if it had just occurred. steve: what do you think your friend bob dylan would think if he were here today? admiral thomas: he was a great guy. he was a deep thinker. he was a strategic thinker. he would be, as i am, but in a more -- probably a more eloquent way, very proud of what our nation's been able to do. and i think, well, again, it's like any death. it's such a tragedy at such a young age to have lost such a great leader and a great visionary.

and like i said, i think he would be very proud of what's happened. i know he would be proud of the way we reconstituted the staff. i am certain of that. led pull themselves together in his memory and just got right back into the fight. it was a real tribute to bob's leadership. he was a great role model to see them all rally and get back to it despite the pain, despite the loss. i think he would be proud of what we've done, and also, i know he would not only be proud of what we've done, but he would still be all in to continue to fight and win on any front. he was that kind of guy. steve: as the anniversary approaches, the 10th anniversary, where will you be?

how will you commemorate your role on 9/11? admiral thomas: i'll be at work. that's how i'll commemorate my role on 9/11. doing my job the best i can, making things happen the way i've been trained. the way our navy and our nation expects me to do. steve: are there any lessons for america and americans ten years later? admiral thomas: great question. i think just about everything i know about lessons i learned as a boy scout. be prepared, do your best to do your duty, to help other people at all times. our navy core values of honor, courage, commitment are ideals

with by -- to live by. so i guess those are my lessons from all of this, that having ideals and values and having some actionable guideposts like do your best, do your duty and help other people. those are my lessons. they transcend an event like 9/11. they're enduring and they apply to everyone. so i think being kind to people and doing your best and making good things happen. steve: final question. admiral thomas: sir? steve: did you go back to the area that was hit by the plane after it was reconstructed? and if so, what did you think? admiral thomas: well, it was finished during my subsequent 18-month tour, so i had the great honor to watch president bush and secretary rumsfeld and

mrs. bush and others rededicate the first anniversary ceremony. it was just wonderful. very cathartic for many of us who were still there. i did not go back to the part of the pentagon that was destroyed and then subsequently rebuilt for years. there's a chapel there now. i visited a couple times when it was first opened, when i was still stationed there. but i'd like to think that we as a nation continue to move forward, that we remember and cherish and commemorate and honor those who died, who were killed that day. and we honor them by our continued, as a nation, our continued movement forward to continue to grow as a country and continue to strengthen ourselves as a country, as a

leader of the world, as a model for the world. so going back and visiting to honor my friend, to honor my fallen comrades, i do that now. i can do that, and i have recently once or twice. it's hard, though, i tell you. it's really hard. because it's like, it brings it all right back like it just happened. they've done a magnificent job with the visitors center. it's very peaceful. if you haven't visited, it's worth the trip. very poignant reminder of life and how how fragile life can be, but how enduring the world is and how enduring our core value are, our nation's raulz -- nation's values are.

i do to honor my friend in my fallen comrades in those things we value. thomas,dmiral david thank you very much. >> you are watching american history tv, 48 hours of programming on american history every weekend on c-span 3. follow us on twitter for information on her schedule and he keep up with the latest history news. sees him or 11, 2001 through the stories of americans who were at the white house, the u.s. capitol, the pentagon, and in the skies over washington, d.c. former senator majority leader was among the congressional