we actually could have a chance to do something on perhaps broadband, roads, bridges. you name it. wastewater treatment plants. and you talk about a rural agenda, a state that's a pretty rural state, that would be a big step if we started working on that. how we pay for it, there is some interest in overseas money, trillions of dollars that are overseas. senator schumer, our leader, has been devoted to this for a long time. i am, as well. and that is finding some way to bring that money back from overseas. it won't be -- i will say it will be a bit controversial on our side. but finding a way to bring the money back. and then what you could do, if companies voluntarily bring the money back with a rate that we have enough votes to pass, you could then, as part of the deal, have a certain percentage of it go into either an infrastructure financing authority. i don't call it an infrastructure bank because that creates problems on your side with some people. infrastructure financing authority or straight into the highway fund. that could be a big -- >> i think you should take some more time to think about it.

she's done. boom, boom, boom. >> but he probably wouldn't listen that long to me on the phone. >> he might. >> so i just put it out there now because maybe one of the advisers is watching c-span. and so i think -- >> maybe the president-elect is -- no, he doesn't watch c-span. >> senator, you, obviously, your passion and main portfolio is national security and international policy. and he's -- look, as republicans go, he's not so hawkish. >> he isn't. i would talk to him about manufacturing first. i've led, along with senator baldwin, an initiative in my caucus called manufacturing for america. we've put together 25 bills that are on a wide range of issues, tax trade, immigration, intellectual property, skills for the workforce that are all around how to strengthen and sustain the growth in manufacturing. we have had 900,000 new jobs in manufacturing added over the last five years.

we are actually winning again, to borrow his phrase, at manufacturing. and there are things that we can do to accelerate the trend and move in the right direction. we can increase, i think, both employment and productivity. this is an area that puts people to work without four-year university degrees. it allows folks of a wide range of backgrounds, skills and education to have a decent life, high wage and good benefits. fighting for manufacturing would be the first thing i would talk to him about. yes, i would also talk to him about russia, middle east, africa, nato, but he would have hung up on me after -- >> i will invite students or anybody else to make your way to the microphone. dana, what does the media need to change? >> nothing. we're perfect. >> i thought that would be a short response. >> where do i start? i mean, look, it's -- we always have to -- i think we always have to be -- put ourselves under the microscope.

i want to let them get their questions. and be reflective especially in this new world where you have a president tweeting and the inclination is to sort of follow the shiny red object. and the inclination is also -- and i think you guys are right -- conflict is good tv. but sometimes it's not just about conflict. it is about compromise and i think working harder on that, especially in today's day and age is important. >> really important. we'll go to your questions. if you can keep them short and keep your answers relative succinct, we'll get in as many as we can. you've got to go. you have a meeting at 7:15 and you have to go, too. you're on. >> i'm curious in general with unprecedented election psych sbl

now quite unprecedented moving forward with the new president-elect. a lot of people have been talking about the future of elections and the electoral college and things within the united states and political parties and divides. and i was wondering if you guys had any opinions or ideas about the future of these things. and i know a lot of people have heard the conversation. >> well, i would, first of all, make it easier for people to vote in a lot of states, not harder. the voting rights reauthorization, reauthorizing that would be good. electoral college. it turns out that, in fact, despite the -- what donald trump may have said on his tweets hillary clinton did win the popular vote. so i think that's worth looking at. i know that will be very difficult. one thing, if i could do one thing it's the campaign finance side. my new perch is the ranking member rules, we have some

jurisdiction over that. i'm going to focus on it. citizens united decision has brought in so much of this outside money that candidates no longer control their own message or what they're doing. and the money that we raise, which at least is all reported, is dwarfed by what comes in, in major campaigns from the outside. i think it's very damaging to our democracy. >> next question. >> thank you. >> with the way the president-elect looks at zero policy with winning and losing only and how foreign policy has become more unilaterally focused with action from the president in recent history, what do you think the senate can do to try to wrestle back some of that power from the president as it looks like the president-elect will not be diplomatic in any way? thank you. >> i don't know that he won't be diplomatic in any way. i will be nervous at the first state dinner. i'll just say that. because he is so informal in how

he speaks and he's not careful sometimes in how he does t i think that's part of it, sinking in that he's the president of the united states and everything that he says matters. but he is a very smart businessman and does know how to be be able to move issues and has traveled around the world. his passion for america to be first is not a bad position. quite frankly, the world benefits with a strong america. as we continue to strengthen, the world continues to strengthen. we're still a quarter of the world's economy. if our economy continues to struggle, the world economy continues tole. so there's really both here. he's not walking away from nato, i don't think. nato does not live up to its military obligations. they never have. no country except us has kept their end of the bargain to maintain what is required to stay in the nato alliance. if pressure was put on those countries, we want to keep an alliance, but you have to live up to your end of the bargain, that's not necessarily a bad thing. while we don't know somewhat and we'll know more after he picks a secretary of state exactly what direction he wants to go in foreign policy, again, i'm not all that concerned about that. >> your turn. >> briefly, an article that just went up in democracy that lays out five areas where i think the

senate, on a bipartisan basis, can and should make a conduct in foreign policy. there's never been a nato country that's met the spending goals or military commitment. we've been disappointed in several of our largest nato allies. that may be one positive outcome that comes from his somewhat reckless statements. they may step up and invest more. that would not be all together bad. i'll briefly say we really have not stepped up to or lived up to our constitutional role to declare wars. we are now conducting conflicts in half a dozen countries based on the 2001 and 2002 authorizations of the use of military force. they've been stretched beyond all recognition from the original scope. we should, on a bipartisan basis, talk a hard look at what we're authorizing the president to do, in what geographies, to what purpose, to what time and work in a bipartisan way to

authorize the wars that we are conducting today and do it in a way that doesn't have the leaking and ungoverned edges of the current situation. my question for senator langford. senator mccain, in discussion with reporters this morning, kind of exasperated, said i don't want any more questions about president-elect. that's my write as a senator. first part is, do you think that is your right as a senator? second of all, what's your advice to your republican congressional colleagues and fielding questions? >> are you a student here? >> i am. >> don't we have the best students? >> that's a great question. >> that is. let me clarify my question on t on the senate republican side, what we affectionately call the gauntlet that we walk through. we've renamed it the trump gauntlet.

there's a line of reporters that line at the hallway and try to stop us and catch us and ask us a question about something trump said ten minutes ago that they want to be the first one to ask us, when we haven't heard the whole context of it and say trump just said this. what do you think? i respond to reporters, i'm not trump's spokesman. i'm just not. i'm not trying to negate that. if you want to know what trump meant by something, ask his spokesperson. because my responsibility is to be able to speak for my state and what i believe as a senator, not have to speak for john mccain and what he says or speak for the president-elect and what he says or the house members or goodness knows chris coons. i don't speak well for them. i may have opinions on one thing or the other but it's become the gauntlet. it's the constant gotcha, trying to divide republicans to say this vk battling this republican. that's a great story. well, you know what? it's actually kind of boring now to say, i'm sorry we don't agree on everything but not all republicans think alike. and that should be okay.

>> next question. >> good evening. as a legal immigrant that turned citizen here and a trump supporter i just had a question about his immigration because that has been such a huge drive in his campaign for so long. do you think that will be one of the issues where the senate can meet halfway at b instead of a and c? do you think that's one of the things where it's easy to be negotiating and he will back down like he did with the whole hillary thing and prosecuting? >> yes. i do. and i think part of it is what chris and amy were saying before. the senate is a place where good bills go to die. >> but not immigration. we passed. >> i know. it went the other way. the house will pass something. they'll be passionate about immigration. president-elect and future

president will be engaged in this issue. the senate will be the place where the minority voice is always heard, always. that's the only place in the federal government that the minority voice is always heard. so there will be that bash in between. and my hope is that at the end of it, we don't walk away and say we're going to do nothing. we actually engage and say what prob progress can we make and move on that? >> we did have a history where we did work out a bill and had some significant support for that bill. there's a lot of people that are very knowledgeable about the issues and have worked together on it before. and a lot of those same people are there. so that also bodes well. but i still think it's going to be hard to get this, given the rhetoric. but the facts are -- and i have raised immigration reform myself. i do think that there could be a chance. but it would be to do it immediately. i'm trying to picture how that happens, given the campaign.

>> we need to get you out of here. >> amy and i serve on the judiciary committee together. we did three weeks of mark-up on the bill. we had literally hundreds of amendments and the terrific work of the bipartisan group of senators that pieced that together. i believe they're all still serving with us. and made significant contributions. a lot of the architecture is already there. we do need a president who is willing to take risks, meet in the middle and craft a bill that actually can gain support from both parties. >> just 20 seconds, totally agree with you as an observer of the political system. if president trump makes conservatives happy with the supreme court pick and figures out a big win like reforming obamacare, then he's going to have a lot of chips that he can call in for immigration reform. i think it's totally possible. >> i absolutely think it's possible. at the end of the day if the debate is about whether we're going to give citizenship to people who are here currently undocumented, i think the whole thing falls apart, but there are so many other areas of immigration reform that we can

pull together. >> you don't get immigration overhaul without dealing with that at some point. >> there's difference between giving citizenship and some sort of legal status and that will be a lot of the debate. >> so you can -- >> but you have to deal with the issue. >> i completely agree. but you have to deal with all the basics on it first. if people are willing to be able to say, let's come, let's find agreement on it. but that will be one of those a and c type issues. everyone demands it. we can't move on this unless you give everyone citizenship. it all falls apart. >> next question. we have to get our senators out. they both have places to go. >> i want to make clear i was not a trump supporter this election cycle but one of the things that appealed to a lot of people who did support him was the idea that he couldn't be bought. and, really, he self funded a lot of his campaign in the primary, in comparison to jeb bush, who had $100 million in corporate money. how does donald trump's campaign change campaign finance reform in the united states, even if things like citizens united remain?

>> he has not made that a major topic. he has made drain the swamp a major theme, and mostly focused on lobbyists and those issues. there's some support on the democratic side for some of that. but he has not -- >> he's a unique character, like lightning in a bottle. a unique character. >> i think he spent a third of what hillary clinton spent. >> yeah. >> but that all being said, he has not talked about putting a justice in that wants to change citizens united or constitutional amendment to change citizens united which, to me, is the way you put control of the campaigns back in the candidates themselves and, thus, the citizen. >> i am so sorry that we can't take more of your questions. maybe there will be a chance for you to mingle and mix with -- i know you're going to hang around for a few minute. >> or maybe a chance to come intern in one of our offices. >> wow! >> would you like that?

anybody interested in interning in their offices? all right. we'll take cards. let me ask each of you through this conversation, which has been built around what trump means and what it governs to do. 10 or 20 seconds on what young people here should be watching for and thinking about as they experience and learn washington. and we are leave this program on congress. you can see the full program op our website. former white house staffers and presidential transition teams talk b about how the first family prepares to move into the white house and how the incoming president governs through the first 100 days. this is live coverage on cspan 3. >> she was the director of the white house transition project, which is a nonpartisan effort by presidency scholars to provide information on presidential transitions and white house operations to those who come into the white house. also with us is a former

elementary schoolteacher who served as assistant secretary of state for the educational and cultural affairs between 2010 and 2013. she was also vice president of institutional affairs at the john f. kennedy center of the performing arts and served as deputy assistant to president bill clinton as the social secretary at the white house. i thought it interesting quote about you, miss stock, on the white house historical society. it says that you always send care packages to the new social secretary. it's got vitamins, aspirin, nylons, it has a comb, hair spray, all the things you need to exist. >> and tooth paste and a toothbrush. >> okay. >> because you never get to go home. >> right. >> we also have dr. terror sullivan, a member of the faculty of the department of science and 2015 teacher of the year there. dr. sullivan states his teaching is guided by his passion to guide students to develop their

own understanding of presidential leadership, influence and complexity of political strategy and the of political power. he serves as director of the white house transition project, a project preparing both major presidential candidates, the president-elect and the outstanding president for the transition. and finally, mr. gary walters worked at the white house for 37 years and was the chief ush ber from 1986 through his retirement in 2007. serving senne presidents from nixon to busch 43. the chief usher is charged with making the house a home for the first family and running many events. he sooip vised about 100 members of white house staff. he observed the first family and their most human and most vulnerable before and after public events that form the historical record of the administration so please join me in welcome iing the panel today. >> thank you very much.

and the way wee going to proceed is gary can tell us about the move ng and moving out of the first families. ann can can talk about the white house staff. and moving in and moving out as well. and the staff operations, she in addition to working for hillary clinton as first lady, she also worked for walter mondale doing press and came into the white house in the carter mondale administration. as well. and then terry sullivan will talk about presidential appointments and bringing in a full administration, so, we're going from very specific to more general. and so gary, can you start us off and tell us about the moving in and moving out? >> as best i can, to still remain a person who tries to protect the privacy of the first family. that is our first goal as the

privacy of the family, both on the move out and move in. the chief ush ber's responsibilities during a transition are first and foremost, coordinate iing and directing the movement out of the current first family. and the plans and the move iing for the incoming president and his family. we also coordinate events to be held at the white house. the plan with the social secretary for events leading up to inaugural day. usually, the presidents do thank you events for their supporters. who have been with them for four, eight years and they do receptions and dinners leading up to inaugural. i also would coordinate with the inaugural committee on the presidential reviewing stamp in front of the white house that's used during the presidential parade, provide information as required to the secret service and to the military, the united states military, who are performing the activities of the inaugural day.

and then i work with the first family, the incoming first family, and their representatives for the events and activities that will happen on and after inaugural day. in the actions of the and post events at the white house, the chief usher works with the social secretary providing information on the incoming family and then the social secretary of the sitting president for the events that are going to take place leading up to inaugural morning. >> we're hooked at the hip. >> we spend a lot of time together. >> yeah, like an old married couple. >> the post, the pre and post inaugural activity that is the chief usher gets involved with are the planning for the packing of personal items as directed by the first family. arranging for the shipment of those items out of the white house. arranging for the transfer of

items that are on loan, whether from personal entities, library, art galleries. and also, those things that are possessions of the united states government to go to the national archives. as far as the post inaugural day activities are concerned, we coordinate activities within the executive residence for the first family as well as their guests, who have attended the inaugural balls and their plans for staying around for a couple of days or getting out of town. which ever they decide to do. thatere's also planning that's carried out and the execution of those post inaugural party, once again, the president has a lot of people he wants to thank for helping him get into office. to assist the current first family's move into the white house, and before i go any further, i want to establish the fact that all the moving, packing are done at the direction of the first family.

the sitting first family. and none of that is done without their direction. the executive residence remains the home of the sitting president until they depart on inaugural morning to go to the capitol. then following our discussions with the first lady, we follow her directions and packing and cataloging items that are being moved out of the white house eventually with photographs and a written log. and this is our documentation. one is presented to the first lady. one kept by a chief usher and one for the cure rater's for historical purposes. this includes the items being sent out, the artwork and items that belong to the national archives. we also determine the items when they will be going out. and to where they'll be going. sometimes, not decided until very late. usually in the late summer of

the election year, the chief usher begins work on producing briefing materials for the incoming family. each book presents questions intended to provoke a dialogue, usually with the first lady, but also with the incoming president. and it asks them for their personal needs and requirements. we need to make the white house their home. so we need to follow their directions, their wants, needs and desires. a potential list of questions that are presented are what types of mattresses do you sleep on? what type of sheets? pillows? how about towels? what items toiletry items should we keep in stock? what kind of snacks do you want in the pantry? so, this is very personal information. and as i said, the questions are there to provoke a conversation.

i would also present a floor plan of the private quarters with current photographs of all the individual rooms in the private quarters. additionally, i would provide information to the incoming first president about the furnishings, art work and those things which he may want in the vo oval office. i gather information, book, photo, from the white house fine arts and furnishings collections as well as books on white house history that are provided by the white house historical association. following the election and upon the invitation of the sitting president and first lady, to the incoming president and his spouse, the chief ushers prepare to present these briefing books and then to begin a dialogue and make contacts with the representatives of the first lady and the president as well as anybody they deem to be their representative. then let's get to inaugural day.

i call and organize chaos. because we have quite a bit of activity going on in a very short period of time. usually six hours or less. the resident staff gathers before the sunrises and the chief usher invokes the five rules of inauguration. rule one, don't panic. we've done this before and we don't have any time for panic. rule two. be professional. we support the presidency, a concept acknowledged by the with appreciation by every president that i served. the residence is blind to party affiliation. rule three. it's okay to be emotional. that staff in the executive residence has been with the sitting first president and first lady and their family for four or eight years. the emotional bond that develops between the staff and the family

is very close. and it's very difficult at times to deal with that. rule four. we adapt to the family's routine. not the other way around. and rule five, be prepared for anything because it's going to happen. the official day begins at 10:00 a.m. when the congressal inaugural escort committee arrives the north port ko of the white house and they proceed to the blue room where they await the president-elect and the president and their families prior to proceeding down to the capitol for the inaugural events. moving vans, which were preplaced overnight, any of you from washington know what traffic is like in washington on inaugural day. uber's not going to get around either. it's shoe leather. moving vans come to the south

portico. the staff is divided into a number of work crews. i usually divide them into groups of outstanding furniture mover, incoming, packer, unpacker, retrievers, placer, truck packers and truck unpackers and then i use the cure rater's office at the white house to monitor and catalog special interest and high value items coming in and going on. the chief usher gets to set in the middle o f this and be kind of a concert master. directing everybody and ensuring that the wishes of the first family are met. it is the intended aim of the executive resident staff to have the departing family know that they are still in their home on inaugural morning. and it's not until they leave that they're actually leaving their home. it's also our goal that after the inaugural parade, the new first family comes into the white house that has been transformed into their home.

their clothes are in their closet, not in boxes. their chosen furniture in places they have designated. even their favorite foods and snacks in the pantry and then the chief usher gets the great honor to greet the new president and the north portico and at the conclusion of the inaugural parade, welcome and his family to their home, white house. thank you. >> thank you very much. i'm going to have some questions for you after we go through ann and terry. >> lot of questions and when jerry says organized chaos, that gives new meaning to the word organize d chaos. thank you, martha, for bringing us together. i always love to talk about the white house and have fond memories of working for president carter and vice president mondale and for president clinton and secretary

clinton. gary also mentioned, i worked on three transitions and as he said, a lot happens in a very short amount of time. it's exciting. it's energetic. it's chaotic and yes, it's absolutely exhaustive. neither one of us would trade it for the world. i think there are three things we should talk, just mention that make the transition what it is. first of all, we also have to remember that the very first thing involved in a transition is the peaceful transition of power. from one president to another. and from one administration to another. an election is about people and policies. president-elect trump won, so he has the transition to tell the american people and the nation what his policy platforms will be and then he has the luxury of that amount of time to hire

cabinet, sub cabinet and staff to put those policies in place. it's overwhelming when you think about it and i'm not going to spend time on this, but there are 4 p million people between the military and federal government. 4,000 political appointees that have to get eyred and there are close to 1,000 of those that have to be confirm birthday i the senate, to when i say and when that president-elect trump is is very, very busy right now, he is. it's an overwhelming responsibility. but i'd like to just talk briefly about the transition for the family because barery talks about the lodgistics of it, but just like to tuck about the transition for the family, but particularly, the first lady because that's multiplicity of roles. on the clinton's first trip to washington right after the election in 1992, i had the good fortune to meet with secretary clinton. was supposed to be b a 20 minute

interview and ended up being an hour and a half. she is essentially presidential psychologicscholar, in you will. probably read 40 to 50 pooks on the presidency, the presidents and first ladies on the roles they play. she was particularly interested in the first lady's role. and i think not everyone realizes what is involved in this first lady's role. anita mcbride who's here from the american university first lady center, can also tell you and back me up on this. first of all, let me just mention the roles because it will be to you see soo what depose into what she does. first and foremost. mom. spouse. daughter. sister. start with that. first hostess. we all look to the white house all the time to see what's going on in the white house.

they are trend setters at the white house. the first time they served arctic char at a state dinner, about 30,000 pounds imported into the united states, after the year was up, 300,000 pounds were imported, so you set the trend and you can set styles. diplomats. laura bush and hillary clinton went around the world as ambassadors and diplomats for the united states. policy advocate. every first lady picks a flat form she wants. whether it's rios lynn carter with mental health and you could name a variety of others. she is also a steward of the house as is the president. they take care of the house. right? >> absolutely. >> to leave anytime a better place, not a better place ch they want to make improvements to it and every president and first laid does that ch a style icon. we look to her to be a trend

setter. i don't trendy, but to showcase what the best of america is. >> didn't turn off my phone? >> that's one of the first ladies calling her. >> oh, my gosh. >> coming here, my cab didn't arrive, then i had a flat tire. just call iing everybody. then she can also be a spokeswoman both for the president and for the projects that she's working on. but the interesting thing about her role is she isn't elected. she can't be fired and she has no official job description. nothing written in the constitution about what she's supposed to do at all. but anita would also tell you, her job evolves over time. based on her interests, tastes and her ability. and what she decides she wants to do. she writes her own job

description. and believe me, she is a powerful and influential platform once she does that, but first, as gary mentioned, one of the most important things about the white house for the new incoming family is that they are a family. and this is a home. and they need to settle in to the home. one of the first thing that is the first lady does also with the president because i mean, bill clinton built book, right, with the carpenter, so he could put his books in alphabetical order, literally. she oversees settling into the white house and trying to make her family life as normal as humanly possible. she becomes what michelle obama called mom in chief role. and if you look back in history, whether it was jackie kennedy, hillary clinton, laura bush, michelle obama, every single person wants to know how to settle their family in to the

fish bowl of the white house and make their life as normal as possible. in september of 2008, i flew out to chicago to meet with michelle obama and three of her staff. and a lot her questions revolved around can the girls take their beds. you know, where do they get snacks? what happens when they come home from school? but the white house becomes the sanctuary and the respite of where people, the family can go and especially the president can go to relax and just be his family. think about it. every major issue, every major challenge, every major opportunity lands on president's desk and so, it's important for them to have that respite a living above the store. i think you'll find, gary would agree, that one of the important things for all of the families is because they do essentially live above the store, they

actually get to see more of each other, which becomes increasingly important. melania trump has already signal that had the mom in chief role, this was during during the campaign as well as now, that is probably her most important role right now. she likely won't be moving to washington until june, when her son's school is out. absolutely a okay. you do what is best for the family. the next thing is is and think about this, because you see this on television all the time. the first lady actually serves as first hostess. national hostess. that's an important role. we all look to see what's going on in the white house. we all look to see what their doing from an issues point of view. when the next state dinner is. what's going on in the white house. we want to know. that role starts the minute she comes down off the inaugural platform and walks into the white house. why? because as gary mentioned, there

are likely a houseful of family and friends stay iing there. there's a dinner there and as we had the next day, a you know, 6,000 people come through the white house on a variety of events. but i think the next role is both a role for the president and the first lady. they are stewards of the house. and as i mentioned a minute ago, they want to leave the house with the imprint of the things they were important to add. add to the house. they also work a lot with with the white house historical association to make sure this happens. for example, mrs. obama just restored the old family dining room. hillary clinton restored and worked with a committee for the preservation of the white house, the blue room. the house gets wear and tear and a lot of things have to be taken care of. but in due time, the first lady

takes on a really, really more public historic platform. it's really powerful. think about what mrs. o obama did with the three or four things she did. let's move. she drew attention to obesity in the united states. rise higher. encouraging kids to take a look at aiming to go to college. let girls learn. encouraging the 62 million girls around the globe who aren't educated to get an education and i think the one that all of us relate to is joining forces with dr. biden, which she did with for our vets and with with our vets, so you can see all of you are shaking and n'diaying your head. you know what these platforms are and you know how powerful that bully pulpit can be come frg the white house. jackie kennedy did historic

preservation and helped restore the president's park. again, she wrote the first guide book to the white house. still in, still being issued with every new presidency. mrs. trump has also indicated though that what she would like to do is pick the platform of bullying and how the social media relates to young people. so that will be an extremely powerful platform that all of us can relate to. i think the other thing that hillary and i did in that conversation and this is something all of you should you, we talked about what the pouwhie is actually used for. and how it's perceived around the world. the first thing. it is an office complex for the president. yes. the oval office is a center of power for the world. but everybody all over the world knows the oval office. a little known fact.

it's a world class art museum of american history and decorative r arts. 1.5 million people visit the white house every single year. there's a responsibility of the family and the ushers and the white house historical association to make sure that we are purchasing the items that are historically correct and thiede to be back in the white house. but that's also just something that you don't often think about. for the clintons and for most of the other first families it's the people's house. what does that mean? you own it. it's your house. and the clintons wanted to be met really inclusive and throw open the doors of the white house wide and have as many americans experience the home of the president as they could. i was exhausted and so was he. we entertained almost half a

million people in the almost five years that i was there, but you want people to share and you figure out platforms so that you can see what's happening at the white house. most importantly though, it's a family home. and we often forget this. they live above the store. it's a very public life that they lead. and it is the place they can retreat. i think the other thing we don't often realize and i think that mrs. trump is going through now, hillary went through, mrs. obama, jackie kennedy, mrs. bush, you have to think through how you raise children or a child in the white house. to live some semblance of a normal life and protect them. they didn't run for re-election. they're a kid who got you know, put in the white house, chelsea at age 12. i think one of the most amazing things that the ushers did for her, i think the it was the first night they were there, she

had four friends from little rock spending the night and they did a scavenger hunt through the state noor of the white house to find the painting of somebody in the red room and they are running all over, getting used to the house. i finally realized, i knew when chelsea made the house her home, her parents one night were having a dinner for people in the green room and she came down to say good night and the marine orchestra was play ng the background b and she's a ballerina and she came down off the elevator and went down the grand calle doing pliats dancing oblivious to the orchestra. kissed her parents and went upstairs. the thing that sticks out most in my mind about the transition is going from being in a campaign to governing. it takes a lot of time and a lot of training and it's the first time when the president of the

united states walks through the white house for the first time. he realizes he's walking and as the first lady, they're walking into the home of all the presidents of the united states except george washington, who never lived there. that's a powerful, powerful statement. i think martha wanted me to just address quickly though the kind of moving in. the president clinton spent time during the transition appointing his cabinet. and this white house staff was not appointed until about six or b b seven days as i remember -- >> january 14th. >> how could i forget that. january 14th, the inauguration was on the 20th and i had six days. and luckily for me, i had worked there before, but you have people who literally are working into the white house for the first time. they might not know where their

offices are. you've got to figure out how to make all of that work and so, my office became the hub of a lot of that. i was responsible for all of the activities, both in the white house and on the 18 acres. we were a small communications and special events office that worked with everybody. the ushers, the staff, the cabinet. and the american people to take the president's message translate it into event that is all of you see and understand what's going on i'll leave you with this thought. january 20th, was my first day, but not my first official day because i was kind of in the background observing this madness, but january 21st was my first official day. i arrived at :pau 30 in the morning with no staff hireded. to find that during the course of the day, we had a 3,500 person open house with the american people. wouldn't be able to do it now, but skrus lined up at the gate and came into the white house.

we discovered we hadn't invited a lot of the people who had supported the president and first lady during the campaign, so we had another thousand people we added right then and there at 1:00. a thousand donors to think. not donors, but a thousand supporters to thank then my favorite of all time, a number of floats broke down during the parade, so present on the spot at the parade invited all of those citizens whose floats broke down to just come see his new house. okay. so, we were like, what? and so, we've got all these people performing in the grand foyer while in one room, we've got a reception about to start and up the back staircase, you remember this. we had 375 people coming for dinner. so needless to say, i arrived back at my office at 11:30 at night and sat. i have to get this chaos

organized or i won't be able to do this because the next day, we swore in the cabinet and it went on from there, so it is an exciting time. always take an interest in your white house. remember it is the presidency. it's not necessarily one president against the other. they all have our democracy in mind and i saw that every day i walked through the white house and so did gary. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. >> so, the terry, can you talk to us about the standing up of an administration? and how a president puts together all of the people, those 4,000 people that he can appoint? >> short of national security, standing up of the american government is the single most daunting feature of the presidential transition from the constitutional perspective.

sort of moving from right to left, we talked about family, the beginning of the institution and personal, the president comes full face to the partisan leader. the creation of the american government is the testing ground of efg that has to do with the peaceful transfer of power. in the 20 years we've been working on supporting the p presidential transition, whatever job you think you've had that makes you think you're qualified to be president and to have that experience and whatever job that is is not by being president. a common thing, a sports analogy

laid on us by the george w. bush transition teal. arkansas is not texas. texas is the second largest state in the union. we're in the major leagues. we are a triple-a ball club and we're about to send our best hitter up to the major league team. and that sports analogy is simultaneously a really good idea because it helped you feel like you're capable of doing the job. and a really bad idea because it analogizes the governorship of the second larger state to the president of the united states in a wholly inappropriate way and the easiest place to see that lack of appropriatie is in the lack of personal. apoints about 700 positions over the four-year the term in the governor nership and for that, they keep about 15,000 resumes on hand. so, that in four years, they

gather 15,000 resumes and process them. the the process of the united states, the candidate that is selected to be president-elect. will receive at least 15,000 nominations in the first 24 hours. by the time they walk into the presidency, by the time trump walks into the presidency, they will have at least 300,000 resumes. so, if you're trying to hit a 92 mile an hour b fastball in a triple-a ball club, which is about normal, you'd have to be able to hit a 1200 mile an hour fastball to go up to the major league team. in the real major leagues. that's the difference. the presidency, first and foremost, in carrying out its

constitutional and partisan responsibilities to lead the country is a gar began tan. if the president is come frg a triple-a ball club, he's going to the team that represents the milky he's going to a team that represents the milky way in the galaxy league. so let's talk about those for a second. what are the numbers? well, there's a couple of things about partisanship just to share with you about personnel, to share with you just as citizen to citizen. first, personnel is all about the constitution. it's all about governing america. if you don't have people in place, you can't govern so it's very important. personnel is standing up the american government. second thing personnel is the place where partisanship and bipartisan sh

bipartisanship come in to meet each other. it's an entirely partisan affair to stand up the american government after the election. it's appropriately a partisan affair. that's what elections are for -- to change the course of government. and so it's entirely reasonable to have partisan appointments made by the president of the united states who is, after all, a partisan leader. but it is also the place where americans of both parties believe bipartisanship should a reign. you as citizens may see washington as a community of sharks and jets -- for those of you who can remember the '60s. [ laughter ] you may see it as sharks and jets, but the reality is the sharks and jets in 2012 passed a bipartisan law to revamp the partisan personnel process and turn 160 positions over from the

senate confirmations process into the entirely partisan presidential process. that effort was led by the majority leader in the senate and the minority leader in the senate working in a bipartisan way. bipartisanship is one keynote of the personnel process. so if you're looking around for a silver lining, personnel is the place where bipartisanship rei reigns. let's talk about numbers. there's a book that's published and it's called the plum book because its cover is plum and also because these are jobs that are thought of in some ways to be plum. they're called the policy support -- the support and policy positions of the government of the united states. and they're often talked about as the positions the president is responsible for. they're actually the positions that are not in the civil service system. not technically, anyway.

there are about 8,000 positions listed in the plum book. that number varies from kwhoewh it is you're talking to and whatever plum book you're looking at. so there's a large number of seemingly non-civil service positions. about 4,000 of those positions are what's called the senior executive service, which is sort of civil service but not and we won't talk about that. so 4,000 is the number to remember. of those 4,000 about 1600 of them involve either positions that the senate these confirm or positions that the president gets to appoint mainly in the white house that are supportive of his own decision making processes. so the real number of presidential personnel is about 1600. of those only about 200 of them are seriously time-sensitive important policy-making

positions. that's the good news. there's a large number -- 8,000 -- which seems unbelievably impossible to deal with. there's a smaller number -- 1600 -- which seems a little more reasonable but still a large number. but there's about 200 which are time sensitive to standing up the executive and that's, for example, the director of the fbi the secretary of homeland security, the secretary of defense, etc. so there are about 200 of those positions. that's the good news. that seems manageable. the bad news is, there's never been a president who's gotten those 200 positions nominated or filled by the end of their first year so if you think about standing up the american government by comparison with, say, for example standing up the iraqi government this we're always concerned about we do a far boworse job of standing up r own government than we do standing up foreign governments

that are trying to rebuild democratic societies. that seems daunting. the good news is, there's an enormously competent and dedicated group of senior civil servants who stand in those places in the government while it stands up and that's an important thing to remember. so if you have a take away about personnel, it's absolutely critical, absolutely daunting, everything the presidency is in every aspect and there is good news and bad news. >> okay, thank you. [ applause ] let me ask you all a couple of questions. we think of moving as moving all of our household furniture and that we have to move it all in. now, when a presidential family moves in, how much do they actually move in?

how much do they bring with them what are their choices? >> they can bring as much as they want to. they can bring nothing at all. the white house collection of fine arts and furniture, furnishings, is extensive and allows the first family that's going to be moving into the white house to furnish the house in its entirety with just those items. most of them are very historic items but each family usually has available to them also casual furniture that we all have and those are also available, kept in the white house storage warehouse which is run by the national park service. there's an extensive collection and they don't have to bring anything but it's their decision, it's their home. they can bring pictures, they can bring furniture. >> laura bush in an interview and anita mcbride, her chief of staff can can attest they

brought a chest that was owned by his grandmother. that's the only thing they brought with them. >> not the only thing. the president wrote a book called "a charge to keep," he had a painting he wanted in the oval office and he gave it to me personally and says this goes on the wall to the left of my desk where i can see it everyday when i walk into the office. so there are a number of things and a lot are private that they bring on their own but that was in the president's oval office and that's one of the things people forget about sometimes is in addition to moving in the family's personal residence, the president's oval office is an icon. on inaugural day, that's the first thing that the president wants to see is the oval office and that's covered by the press, the president walking into the oval office for the first time. during the transition in the executive residence, there's also a transition in the oval office.

if he's chosen a different desk than the previous president, that's in there. if he's chose an new carpet, drapes for the walls -- for the windows, i should stay -- all those things are changed because the impression that's left by that first look in the oval office sends a message to the american people what the priorities are of this president and it's very important that we get it right from the beginning. >> there's also one other tradition that i find quite charming and quite wonderful is the outgoing president leaves a letter for the incoming president and if you've never read it, i think george bush's letter to bill clinton is one that you should absolutely go online and read it's basically saying your success is the country's success, i wish you luck in everything you do. but read it. i'm getting goose bumps thinking about it. but each president leaves a letter in the desk.

>> what did the president -- president bush say to you about that painting? did he tell you why the painting was important to him? >> absolutely, he said it was the painting he chose for the cover of his book "a charge to keep" because he had the idea that he, being the president of the united states, he had a charge to keep with the american people. they gave him a direction in which he saw the country moving and he wanted to be there. one of the things that was one of his key points when he moved into the oval office, mrs. bush's efforts on behalf of education and that was going to be what was their keystone for the first year of the administration was education. of course 9/11 intervened and the president became the protective president of the american people. curiously, though, on that morning, mrs. bush was on her way to the capitol to speak before senator kennedy and the committee on education at

president capitol so there's quite a confluence there of activities. >> and also before that she'd been at the kennedy center where i was working and we were about to open a new exhibit with caroline kennedy on the kennedy center and what it meant, another piece of education, and she was there that morning. >> on that morning, an example of the kind of way in which the white house staff has to be ready to do anything in the chief usher in particular does, can you tell us about your morning and seeing the -- watching television, seeing the world trade center attacked and then the actions that you took that prepared the way for the president to come back to washington? >> once again, the confluence of events. the president was in florida.

i'm sure most of you saw, in a children's setting in a classroom when the incident occurred. i happened to be at the south portico as the flatd di was departing to go to capitol hill. she was told by the secret service agent that there had been a tremendous accident in new york just within the last couple minutes as he ushered her in the car and he turned to me and said "there's been a plane flying into the world trade center in new york. looked skyward, perfectly clear sky, beautiful day, i thought how in the world could that happen? went inside -- this gets to be a long story so i'll make it as short as i can. i walked in after a period of time to see the television set in our office and i saw a plane fly into the world trade center and i asked one of my aides, "how in the world did that occur? how did they get it on camera?" and he said "that's the second plane." so after trying to stabilize my

thoughts we moved forward. there was ever there was going to be a reception on the south grounds that night for the entire congress, both the house and senate, a barbecue on the south grounds. there were over 150 picnics, chuck wagons because it was going to be a barbecue. we had to go out and move those. i kept seven people, i'm sure you've seen the pictures of the police telling the white house staff to get out, get out. i was able to keep seven people with me on the south grounds and we proceeded during the course of the day as we got reports that other planes were coming in, as there was a report of a bomb at the state department there were many activities. quite confusing day. but we were able to move those picnic tables out of the way because i knew president bush was coming back to the white house. as ann said earlier, the white house is an icon. not only in the united states but in the world and i knew our president was coming back to the

american people's house to try and calm everybody and we worked during the course of that day to make sure that that area where the helicopter normally lands was available for the president to come back and he made a speech to the american people that night, followed up the next morning with mrs. bush from the oval office in trying to get the families to be calm and continue with their daily activities. i'll make it as short as possible. sorry. >> ann, when you came in to the clinton white house, can you tell us how many people were there? what percentage. >> what i started with? >> yes, what you started with and then what the white house -- >> the white house social office? >> no, generally within the white house, i think there were approximately i'm going to guess

500 people of which about 70% are political. so 70% of those jobs -- i mean, i think those numbers are pretty good. 500, 525, somewhere around in there. so 70% of those jobs turn over which is why i said the first day i walked in i had no staff in place and the staff was small, it was four people and i was fortunate because i lived in washington and was able to put my arms around 30 volunteers that essentially became almost like full-time staff to me which gary knows, i mean they were women and men who basically volunteered full time to help pus put together a staff that could run all the events we were doing. but there's a tremendous turnover and trying to get the right people in place with the procedures you have to do to get people into working at the white house is quite a task. but it turns over and turns over very quickly and you need to get

that staff put to place -- in place so you can operate. >> terry, of the around 1600 positions that are appointed by a president and that are key position positions, if you look down and find that the most important positions, they're around 200. what are those positions? what -- why are they so critical in moving the government. >> well, okay so much of those positions either make policy or are primarily national security related so they're not making policy, they're defending the country. so that means secretary -- all the cabinet secretaries, the director -- the chairman of the board of governors of the federal reserve, the members of

the board of governors of the federal reserve, council of economic advisers, the cabinet secretaries, their deputy cabinet secretaries and then within the various cabinet position, cabinet agencies, some critical cabinet people so the assistant secretary of treasury for terrorism finance. that's the guy who goes around the world and shuts down the financial institutions that are undergirding terrorism groups. so these are guys who carry out the president's policies, essentially carry out the will of the american public as evidenced in the election process. some of them are more important to the president's agenda and some of them are less important to the president's agenda depending on what the president wants to focus on so president george w. bush came into office thinking he would be the education president.

he was going revamp your business, no child left behind. and so there are people in the department of education which are more important to his agenda than, say, in the department of transportation, even though transportation is important to the american economy so it's a matter of making priorities and choices but all across the government, even if the president's not focused on transportation, the american economy depends on transportation and so somebody's got to be focused on it and those people are also presidential appointees and they also make serious policies. >> you could say that when president obama came in we were in a financial meltdown and it took some while to get the treasury department stood up so

secretary geithner was there by himself. he had no confirmed appointees below him and so that it does make the task very difficult and it's -- it's just the nature of our system that we want not just a president to participate in the appointment process but the congress as well through its senate confirmation. although, as you said, there have certainly been moves to try to make the process more efficient. one of the things that we have talked about, gary, that i thought was a really impressive ceremony, a very simple one but a meaningful one for a president is on that last day, one thing you didn't mention was the ceremony which in part you

established at the end of the reagan administration of the presentation of the flags to the president. can you tell us about the staff getting together to say farewell to the president? >> certainly, i'd be glad to. the resident staff, as i said already, becomes very close to the first family. especially when there's children involved as there has been on a number of occasions. grow up with them, help them grow up in some manners and on inaugural morning before the inaugural committee arrives to escort the president and president-elect down to the capitol, the entire resident staff, usually around 93 people, is brought together in the state dining room for a brief good-bye with the first family. it becomes a tremendously moving period of time for the staff and for the families. it's a good-bye, a final

farewell. one of the things i established when i became the chief usher was to take the flag that's flying over the white house on inaugural day afternoon, when he's taken the oath of office and we take that down and keep it with the curator's office or in fact some n soin some cases desk drawer in my office for four or eight years. [ laughter ] and also the flag flying over the white house on the morning the president is going to leave office. and i present those flags in a box made out of original white house wood. when the white house was reconstructed during the 1948 to '52 renauovation, the entire inside was gutted and some of that wood was retained for historical purposes and the curators and carpenters at the white house maintain control over that wood at the direction of the chief usher. and we make that -- those boxes for the flags out of that wood

and present it to the presidents. it usually ends up in their personal offices, at their libraries. it's a very meaningful, small ceremony. it's a pretty private ceremony. the only people in there are the president and his family and certainly sometimes the social secretary, the chief usher and a few possibly very close staff members and it's one of those things that's a final good-bye and for the resident staff it's extremely difficult because they have to go from that into their daily activities, getting ready to move a new family in, move the other family out, and get ready for what's going to transpire in the coming four to eight years. >> ann, you came into the vice president's office as well as coming into the east wing side

of the first lady hillary clinton. can you tell us in coming in in the carter/mondale period, was the move in -- because you moved into the -- you were in the west wing. >> i was working for vice president mondale. >> right. so you moved into the west wing office. >> right. >> and how was that different, your move in during that time period? was it less chaotic? more so? >> it was interesting. because working for vice president mondale, right after the inauguration he went around the world to meet all of the allies and reassure time, you know, and just meet them and talk to them about what was going to transpire in the carter administration and i was hired on the saturday night before they left at 10:00 a.m. on sunday morning, i was hired about midnight and asked to report the the white house at 8:00 in the morning.

which i did, not knowing where -- which gate i was going to. i got in there and the wonderful thing for me was i became the world's leading expert in the 10 days that they were gone on the white house because it's, again, finding those offices, setting up the systems, setting up the communications, setting up the way you relate to all the staff within the white house and just figuring out what's going on so when the traveling party came off the road and those were all of the key people i was the world's leading expert of ten days on the white house and the vice president's office. but i think one of the things to your point, though, of chaos, the chaos is less now because of what's gone? place with the way the transition is set up, that money is provided to both campaigns to start to look at this process long before election day. and i think if you learn anything from this panel, it's a

very comply kated overwhelming task to set up and set up a government and we need the time. just physically getting people -- the 200 people you talked about, getting them into the white house with a pass on inaugural day. i have one very funny story. on the very first day, inauguration day, mrs. clinton's personal aide was bringing her gown from blair house over to the white house for the inaugural balls that night and she thought the wave system at the white house, which is 2 white house access visitor's entry system meant that you showed up at the gate and waved. [ laughter ] and they knew you were coming in with the dress and you're supposed to be there. well, that's not the case, but we can laugh about that but what's -- in a post-9/11 period, the presidents after that were absolutely correct to figure out, again, peaceful transition

of power and how to make that easier. anita could attest and so could gary in 2008 the table top exercises that they had been doing with both of the staffs came into play the morning of the inauguration because they had a very serious threat. and both teams, both the outgoing and the incoming team worked in the situation room right up until almost the time to transfer power. so it's serious business and we have to treat it like serious business and that's what this transition process is doing. so, yes, there's hecticness, but i think a lot of the chaos has gone out of the situation. >> and terry, you had talked about bipartisanship and there is legislation that has been passed in the last few years that -- can you just tell us briefly because we're hitting

our mark here, about any of the legislation, what it aims to do? >> well, most of the legislation passed since, say, 2004, is either addressing national security, making sure that we spin off the government in a proper way and that we make sure a lot of the things that we thought were being done turned out weren't being done and so it really took something like george w. bush who more than a year ahead of an announcing he was running for president he had tasked some of his gubernatorial staff to start figuring out what would they need to know when they won. and that's the kind of guy he was. and so a year before the peaceful transition would happen

in december of 2007, he tasked his white house staff to make sure there was a flawless, seamless transfer of authority from his -- from himself to whoever his successor was going to be, even though they didn't even know who that was. but it certainly would be somebody -- it could very well be somebody from another party and that's the kind of bipartisanship that exists around the transfer process and coming in behind those decisions, which were individual decisions made by individual presidents and individual actors about how to carry out this process, the congress came in behind that and in a bipartisan way passed legislation that sort of turned what were individual decisions into statutory decisions. so now there's a range of things that happen that in many ways

don't happen soon enough but they are moving backwards in time. to get this right you've got to plan and that means you've got to be measuring the drapes. to be responsible and have vie dellty to duty, the president the people who want to be president have got to have people thinking about what they're going to do if they win. >> thank you. thank you very much and we appreciate it. we all appreciate it. we've learned a lot about how the transition takes place and it gives us a feeling that it's in good hands. that the career people who are there, who are doing a fine job of preparing the people who are coming in and that it's -- the transfer of power, although somewhat -- appears somewhat chaotic in fact is a very good one. thank you very much. [ applause ]

[ indistinct audio ] you can watch this and other programs on the presidential transition in our video library. just go to our web site, cspan.org. more transition news from the hill today. president-elect trump's lawyers have filed an objection to the recount in michigan, delaying or potentially blocking a review scheduled to begin today. michigan secretary of state, a republican, said the state's bureau of elections received the objection from trump representatives yesterday, a day

after green party nominee jill stein filed for a recount. under michigan law, the recount is halted when the board of state canvassers resolves the objection, johnson said in a statement. you can read more about that at thehill.com. the . follow the transition of government on c-span adds donald trump becomes the 45th president of the united states and republicans maintain control of the u.s. house and senate. we'll take you to key events as they happen without interruption. watch live on c-span. watch on demand at cspan.org or listen on our free c-span radio

app. >> thank you very much, welcome to congress. [ applause ] tonight at 8:00 on c-span, supreme court oral arguments on immigration detention. the court will decide if detained immigrants facing deportation can be held longer than six months without a bail hearing. a lower court ruled the government must provide individualized bond hearings to determine danger and flight risk. the justices are hearing that case today. we have a special web page at cspan.org to help you follow the supreme court. go to cspan.org and select supreme court near the right hand top of the page. once on our supreme court page, you'll see four of the most recent oral arguments heard by the court this term and click on the "view all" link to see all the oral arguments covered by c-span. in addition, you can find recent appearances by many of the

supreme court justices or watch justices in their own words, including one on one interviews in the past few months with justices kagan, thomas and ginsburg. there's also a calendar for this term, a list of all current justices with links to quickly see all their appearances on c-span as well as many other supreme court videos available on demand. follow the court at cspan.org. december 7 marks the 75th anniversary of the japanese attack on pearl harbor and this weekend on american history tv on c-span 3 we're featuring programs remembering that day. sunday afternoon at 4:00 p.m. eastern on reel america, the u.s. army film directed by trank capra "know your enemy, japan" portrays japan as a nation determined to rule the world through military conquest. >> when the factories of los angeles and detroit were producing for japan's war machine, then the rest of the world would fall like a ripe

plum and the japs would have command. just after 5:00, survivors from the uss "arizona" where 1,177 crew men were killed on december 7, 1941, recalled what they witnessed on that day. and at 6:00 eastern on american artifacts. >> the "missouri" was commissioned in 1944 and saw action in the pacific. she's often remembered for one event and that is the surrender of japan at tokyo bay. >> we'll tour pearl harbor attack sites and memorials on the island of oahu, part of the national park service world war ii valor in the pacific national monument home of the uss "arizona" memorial. for our complete american history tv schedule, go to cspan.org. now analysts and correctional education administrationo administrators on inmate job

training and education. also barriers that prevent access to opportunities. >> hi, everybody. welcome, i'm david sokolow from clasp. we're delighted to host this event called reconnecting justice, how opportunities in twinning can help millions of our mellow americans move from incarceration to reentry. i want to give a warm welcome to shows of you watching this forbe rum via web cast. we have more than 700 of you in 48 states, the district of columbia and puerto rico registered for the web cast so welcome to all of you. being with us here virtually and in more of you watching us on a live broadcast on c-span 3. thank you to c-span for covering this very important topic.

we are really glad in particular to see the many participants from a wide array of fields doing important work for many different angles, we're excited to learn from all of you about how we can work across silos, i want to give a special welcome to our friends from lumina foundation for being with us here today, to many different members of congressional offices, staffs who have joined us for their continued and long-time leadership in this field over many years. we're really very glad there's so many key officials from federal, state, county and municipal governments that have joined us today and leaders from colleges and universities and many policy advocates, researchers, employers and others with really deep commitment and expertise in various different solutions related to poverty, social justice, human services, work

force development, education, criminal justice, employment, and different other fields. it's really an amazing group that has gathered with us here and on the web cast, we thank you all very much for participating. clasp is hosting today's forum because it is a vital part of our anti-poverty mission. at clasp we advocate for practical solutions and visionary strategies for reducing poverty, promoting economic security and addressing barriers faced by people of color. we promote work force training, post-secondary education and career pathways that low-income adults and youth need to suck seat and our work on education and training and employment has led us to focus on the particular needs of those involved in the justice system. in america today, more than two million people are in prison, the majority of whom are

african-american or hispanic. just among young adults incarcerated, those between 18 and 24 years old, 49% are african-american and 24% are hispanic. overall, those incarcerated comedies proportionately from low income communities and have median preincarceration earnings of less than $20,000 a year. so this forum is part of our broader agenda. it's the second in our series addressing intersections among education, employment, and justice reform. last june, clasp hosted a forum and published a paper on realizing youth justice, sparking a conversation about the experiences of youth of color within the context of criminal justice, racial equity and economic disparities. in today's forum. we'll turn our attention to adults and the role of education and training during and after

incarceration. for returning citizens to get hired in jobs that can lift them out of poverty, the systems we'll be talking about today must be part of a broader approach to addressing mass incarceration and class ral consequences. but just as it's a mistake to train people for jobs that don't exist. efforts to remove barriers and open up job opportunities have to be coordinated with skills training so that returning citizens can earn post-secondary credentials that give them a fair chance at being hired for the jobs that are being made available. so before we get today's program sta started there are a few brief house caping items. restrooms are in the hallway adjacent to this room. take this time to check the settings on your mobile device to stay silent during the event but while you have your device out and you're looking at it, please take note of the wi-fi

password for here in the room and you can tweet a at #reconnectingjustice. we hope you will all do that. as you think of questions for the q&a portion of our forum today, those of you in the room write them down on the index chards are provided in your packets and otherwise you also can and everybody watching at home can send on questions to events @clasp.org. so we'll get them the speakers and have a lively two-way interactive conversation. that e-mail address is events @clasp.org. once again thank you for joining us. now it's my pleasure to introduce my colleague at clasp who has done such an amazing job with our team putting together today's forum, wayne talafaro.

[ applause ] >> thank you, david, for opening today's event and setting that broader context. before i introduce our speaker, i want to offer some additional framing remarks about why we're here today. today we're here to listen, discuss, and ask questions about aspects of a topic that have become one of the biggest racial, social and economic justice issues of our time. as you've already heard, over two million people in america are incarcerated. that's more than any other country in any other developed world. while that number is egregious in and of itself, it's even more troubling about who we lock up, why we lock them up and what

that means for our society. for some of us, these issues are personal. for others that connection may be more distant but for our society, for our families and communities and the humanity that connects us we cannot afford to continue to write off an entire segment of our population and we also can't assume that this blame does not lie with the systematically ingrained justices that face us today. as you'll hear throughout today's event. the pipelines from low income communities of color to incarceration are well documented and rooted in legacies of economic injustice, institutionalized racism, problems with the justice system, and failed policies that have culminated in the system of mass incarceration we know today. too often one of the by-products of these injustices is low levels of educational attainment. especially for the individuals who end up in prison. among the prison population the

average educational attainment level is 10.4 years of schooling. among young black men in prison less than 1 in 3 have a high school diploma and for young hispanic men less than one in five. in a today's economy where most jobs require some form of education beyond high school, these numbers are even more tragic. between the lack of formal education and skills among prisoners and the collateral consequences that come with a criminal record, incarceration essentially dooms people a life of second-class citizenship. and for people of color those effects are even more dire. that's why today's panels are so important, to better understand how education and training opportunities for this very population can serve as one solution to reentry success, so individuals can build skills and

succeed in the labor market. we know it's not a cure all, but it's definitely one place for us to start we've brought together panelists, speakers and audience members from all levels of government, tri, higher education, legal services and many other fields to hopefully critically examine these issues and leave us all ready to affect change. i also want to point out that the folders you receive today include a newly-released report from clasp that looks at the landscape of correctional education both from the funding and programming standpoint and also how it ties to reentry. the report is co-authored by me and my colleagues at clasp and it's currently available on our web site, www.clasp.org. also, the recorded version of today's event will be available on our web site later as well.

now i'd like to turn the program over to our esteemed speaker nick turner, president of the vera institute of justice, an independent nonprofit national research and policy organization that works to end the misuse of jails, trance form conditions of con finement and ensure that justice systems are more effectively serving america's growing minority communities. nick has been at the institute since 1998 and served as president since twert. he's a nationally recognized leader on criminal justice reform issues and we're so excited to have him with us today. without further ado, i present nick turner. [ applause ] >> good afternoon, everyone. that was good, i don't even have to ask you to do it again.

[ laughter ] whenever someone introduces me as being esteemed or nationally recognize it always think they're talking about someone else. i certainly don't feel that i quite fit that bill but i'm going to try to do what i can to live up to that. i want to begin first by saying how pleased i am to have been invited to speak to all of you, to be invited to an event that is organized by clasp. clasp is an organization that i have long admired in many respects the vera institute of justice and class reasp are the generation, a generation that was born of recognition of great challenge that we saw in the '60s and great opportunity to remake society and to draw a greater attention to social justice issues and to give voice to the underserved.

like you, clasp and olivia. we care a great deal about racial justice at vera. you take a lens of anti-poverty work as you pursue it, we have always sort of been in the justice reform lane, a slightly narrower lane. but i think we've been running together for a long time and it's -- it's -- it's wonderful to be here. i've -- olivia, i have watched you. you may not know that i have been watching but i have been watching you since i was -- i had my first job in d.c. at a place called sasha bruce youth work. you were at children's defense fund there and then when you were up in new york as state directorover operations and now in this role and when i looked at the board members at -- for clasp, i saw names like peter edelm edelman and angela glover blackwell, sara cooper, all of whom i have great admiration for

so i couldn't be more thrilled to be here. i'll tell you right now about what i hope to do today. one of the things i would like to do is set out the historical context for this conversation we're having right now and to help you appreciate that we are actually operating in a moment of history and why this is such an important moment for justice reform and for poor people in this country. i want to explain a little bit about why paying attention to breaking the cycle of incarceration through some of the things that wayne just spoke about, a broad array of education and training for people in prison and then leaving prison is essential and a critical issue. and finally i want to focus specifically on post-secondary education in prison and i'll describe what i believe as an opportunity for all of us to do something really big. but before i get into that i want to show you a short film so

if you will just turn your attention to the screen behind me you can enjoy this for about two minutes. >> we're so lucky to spend mother's day together, but there are hundreds of thousands of kids whose moms are incarcerated this mother's day. >> so we wanted some kids to share letters that they wrote to their moms. >> dear mom, hi, mom, i miss you very much. >> i know i don't write you a lot but this letter right here is actually pretty special. >> your second mother's day away, i took to facebook and posted "i love my mother." >> but most of all i miss your hugs. >> every mother's day i listen to our favorite songs. >> i think about you all the time, at night when i'm getting ready to go to bed it makes me think of the most amazing mom i have that. >> i miss playing with you and sleeping with you at night. >> i miss how you always used to say funny things on facebook and

i miss how you used to -- i can't do it. >> i've been having some personality issues about my sexuality and i wish you weren't in prison so you could be here to help me with it. >> school is kind of good but fighting in school is difficult. >> recently i was inducted for the national honor society at my school. >> something that's happened to me good recently is that i went roller skating. >> mom, i love riding bikes because i just love riding them. >> dear mom, i will always love you no matter what happens. >> i can't wait to see you. >> from your first born. >> happy mother's day. >> i love you, mom. >> sincerely gee vanna.

>> happy mother's day. >> love your favorite daughter. >> happy mother's day. >> click on the link below to see more love letters to moms. >> i show you that video not because it has necessarily a substan i have the connection to the reason we've all gotten together here today but because it is important for all of us who do this work to remember the people who we're doing this work for and sometimes we get caught up in the evidence and the politics of the moment and we sometimes even those of us who are so deeply committed stop thinking about the human beings

whose lives we are trying to improve and so this is -- it's something i have that showed on a few occasions because i find it very grounding. so as i promised you -- and i should just say that that video was something that was produced by google. there's one for father's day, too, equally affecting. as i promised you, one of the things i wanted to talk to you about was this moment in history and i would say that we really are -- this is a paradoxical moment. we are in a moment where we have before us a massive decades in the making, arguably centuries in the making problem. this system of mass incarceration that has been argued to us has kept us safe. but we also have in this moment what i would argue is

unparalleled momentum and an opportunity and it really is a true moment in history so i want to break down those two things first. what do i mean by "massive problem"? and let me try to put this in numerical terms for you. i know not everyone here is teachly involved in criminal justice work and you come at this from different angles, maybe from a commitment to education or work force training but we are talking about a system that on any given day has 2.3 million people behind bars in this country. some in jails and some in prisons. we are what i often describe as an international aberration. this country is responsible for 5% of the globe's population but 25% of the imprisoned population and when you compare with us many countries we view to be our peers. so let's say the oecd nations,

many western european democracies, we are incarcerating at a rate of six to ten times more than they are you might ask yourself, well, okay that's fine, maybe this is a more violent society. maybe there are reasons for that, maybe we get a much better return on investment than these other countries do but the answer to that is no, that is not the case. we have been arounding in$80 bi a year in correction services and the recidivism rate, two-thirds of people released will be arrested after three years and less than half will be reincarcerated. so you have to ask yourselfs the question, why are we spending all of this money to put so many people behind bars for results that are far from positive.

on the human level, as you saw in the film, it affects the children of people incarcerated. they are facing what michelle alexander referred to as the new jim crow, a species of second-class citizenship that bars them from all of the things we need as citizens to succeed, whether it's entry into the labor force, a safe place to live, whether it is financial support for education. the complex and the infrastructure of barriers to entry in -- back into society are astonishing. i think someone said that there are -- having done a national survey that there were 44,000 different state or local or federal provisions that in one

way or another shet people out of a labor market or housing or student aid or jobs so it's astonishing. then we also know that imprisonment has a huge impact on people's income, on hours worked, on the ability to build welt so -- and then we can go further and think about the communities who are -- that are impacted and as wayne mentioned, one in three african-american men will spend time in jail or prison in their lifetime. many of these men come from communities that are of concentrated poverty, that are increasingly segregated and so what we are doing is we are participating in a process that is disappearing men from these communities but it is most powerfully be felt by the men and that means there are fewer fathers, there are fewer

partners and lovers, there are fewer workers in those communities. to exist not in this moment today but it just perpetuates itself intergenerationally. it's a massive problem we're confronting. if i could be optimistic for a moment, and i know that's hard for our washington, d.c. crew because we're in a moment where there's so much scratching and head shaking about the political debate going on or the inability to get things done in washington, i do want to point out for those of you that have not paid attention to criminal justice that this is a highly unusual moment despite the challenge of the work that needs to be done in the 25 years that

i have worked in this space, i have never seen a moment where there's as much hightened attention to the problems we're confronting and as much energy and mobilization from unusual people who i never thought cared about the issue as i'm seeing now. and i think the reasons for that, you know, others may disagree, i think there are four fold, i think people are finally shocked at the numbers that they see that we have quoted from this podium already. i think that stories of people who have been impacted by the system, speak who have spent time in jail or prison and are raising their voices and are being leaders in the movement has had a tremendous impact. you can find that in everyday folk and you can also find that in political leaders. some of the political leaders on the right who are the most vociferous about trying to change the system either spent time in prison or had a loved one spend time in prison so that

kind of proximity has woken folks up. it's hard to also ignore the existence of citizen journalism that we have seen in the past few years which is focused almost entirely upon policing but what it has done is it has showed something to america that many people in america probably struggled to believe or accept that the system -- that the criminal justice system was rigged against people of color and that the interactions of people of color had, with the justice system, were so different than what many americans had ever imagined could be true. i heard a colleague refer to it as sort of the big foot problem. that people argue about whether big foot or sasquatch exists and

then you see a film and you're like, oh, all right, it does exist and i think that's what's happened with these films of walter scott or philando castile or alton sterling. and that's shocked the conscience and made people want to understand more about what is going on and it doesn't just stop at policing, it goes deep into the system as a whole. finally there's an ideological convergence that folks on the right, whether they're evangelical or libertarian or fiscal hawks. i think this is mostly at the elite leader level, i'm not entirely convinced that the folks in the grass-roots on the right are fully owning the need and desire to change the system but they have joined with the progressive grass-roots in calling for change and that is a phenomenon in and of itself but i think it makes more people curious because given what happened in washington and the

state of our political discourse there is what i sometimes call a man bites dog element to that story where people think, what? conservatives and progressives are actually aligning together progressives are actually aligning together on something? so this is a paradoxical moment. huge problem, decades in the making, but more opportunity and momentum to change than we have ever seen before, i think certainly in the last 50 years. so i want to talk a little bit about post secretary education in prison because i think in many regards it exemplifies that paradox. i think that the growing interest in post secondary education in prison indicates a broader movement that reflects what i would describe as a resurgence of interest among people in the rehabilitative

role that our justice system needs to play. i think we are witnessing the slow rebirth and return of an embrace of that value, and there's no doubt that post secondary education and prison is much needed. you can harken back just to the facts that i gave you about the high rates of recidivism for people who are coming out of prison and jail, and we need to have interventions that are proven, that are supported by evidence actually reducing recidivism but much more importantly improving the life outcomes of people who are leaving prison and their families who are welcoming them and relying on them to come back. and some of those outcomes are probably well-known by this group. one thing i'm reminded of, having completed a college education is what we sometimes refer to at vera as a protective factor. if you've completed a college

education, you are less likely to go to prison. when you look at the growth of the prison population in the states from 1970 until 2010, the vast majority of growth are in the demographic of people who have not gone to college, people who participate in educational programs are being rearrested or reincarcerated at a far lower rate. there's a higher chance of gaining employment upon release, higher chance of higher earnings, and for an organization like c.l.a.s.p. and i imagine for many of those of you who are in this room, the two generation sort of bang for your buck that you get with college education is really

important, because we know that the children whose parents have sought a post secondary education are far more likely to go pursue their post secondary education in college than if their parents had not, and so again, looking back at the film, that is 2.7 million children of the incarcerated, and we know how important a college education is to succeed in this economy and the economy of the future, but i think college and prison is also important for other reasons beyond the evidence, beyond its ability to improve outcomes for people. it is relatable. everyone in this room understands how important college has either been for you or for your loved ones, and essential, and understands increasingly what an essential aspect it is of people's ability to participate fully in the american economy, and so being

able to expand access to that in prison i think is an important humanizing aspect. it is a way to help people to get proximate. we have spent way too much time in this country treating people who have been affected by the criminal justice system as "other" as some, not like me, that's folks on the other side of town, you know, who we are scared of, but in fact, they are parents and they are strivers and inspiring and want to accomplish the many, many of the same things that we all do in this room, and so it's important as a humanizing thing, and the last reason that i'm going to say it's really important at this moment in time, and why i think we should all be focusing on post secondary education in prison, even though we know the training and other forms of education are really important is that there is a big opportunity to make a difference i think in the next three to four years, so you all may know this story about college in prison. the 1994 crime bill which many people talked about in the context of this current election

included a ban on the use of pell grants, the federal pell grants so federal financial aid for students in prison, and that had a dramatic effect on programs. prior to the 1994 bill, there were around 270 college programs providing courses to around 23,000 people in prison, and after the 1994 act went into effect, 44% of those programs ended. if you look at it, at the state level, my state, my home state, new york, there were 70 programs that were operating before 1994, flash forward to 2008, there were eight. so what that did was it took the main source of funding, and there are a lot of wonderful programs that continue to operate, there are people here who you will be listening to who have dedicated their lives to them, but they required often

generosity, charity, philanthropic dollars rather than a reliable federal stream of money. so that's a circumstance that we're still living in. last year the obama administration did something very important, even though the congressional ban exists, as the great c.l.a.s.p. paper talks about the obama administration used what is called experimental authority to essentially test, to test the use of pell grants and supporting students who are students in prison, and put out an rfp for institutes of higher learning to apply to be a basis for these students and over 220 colleges and universities applied and said yes, we want to run programs over this three-year experimental program, and 69 were chosen by the administration, so for the next

three years, we'll have 69 colleges and universities in 28 states, blue, red and purple, that will be educating 12,000 students on a year, and the estimated leverage in federal dollars is $30 million a year to support that. so it's a remarkable expansion, but it is time limited, and that's important for us to know, because what we now have is a window of opportunity, with programs in 70 colleges, 28 states, that means that there will be experiments where corrections and education work together, where small business owners and places can find new employees, where sheriffs and law enforcement can stand up and

talk about the benefits of these kinds of programs, when they are released, and that road will run, again, through blue and purple and red states, and so if you can imagine all of the positive messages that can come out of this experiment, not just serving, not just serving this student population, but the right messengers who may or may not be talking to their delegations up on the hill, and talking about jobs found, about happy employers who have an expanded labor pool, about families who are supported, about people who are not returning to prison. you can imagine this. you can imagine coalitions of employers and small businesses, law enforcement, and education, locally elected, all saying to their congressional delegations, this is worthwhile and it is important. we are invested in it and we want it to continue. so i think that there is a window of opportunity for the next three years to figure out how we can actually overturn the ban and return to pre-1994 days.

make america great again. so a few parting thoughts. overturning this ban would be great. it would bring education to thousands of people. it would reduce poverty. it would break the cycle. it would help children of the incarcerated go to college, and it would increase income and wealth, but that's not enough for all of us to do in in room and i want to bring it back to for a second. i showed you that film not because you all are a bunch of policy wonks and you know, mavens of good evidence and innovation and policy and program, but i showed it to you as citizens of this country. we created what we have. democracy was the culprit that got us to the 1994 bill and got us to all of the things that had happened in the decades before. it's a lot of policy like the 1994 bill, and democracy was basically neglectful.

it neglected the ramifications that you saw up on the film, the impact of relying on incarceration, the impact on families and individuals and communities. it absolutely neglected that. it neglected the evidence that we know that exists about the kinds of good policies that can actually put people on the road to success that can actually deliver public safety for us, and that can actually be the spine for good policy. so democracy has work to do here in a different way now. we have a job to do over the next decades to turn back what we have built, and so that's why it's good that all of you are in this room and you will go about your work focusing not only on training and education and making sure that programs, the quality programs arefi