three development, we're looking to get this capability into the force in the early 30s. we've already mentioned we're currently involved in analysis of alternatives. that is going to help us refine those capabilities. and then starting in probably fy-19, fy-20, we're going to be making some decisions there on the multi-service aspect of the program, that joint trade space again. and we're going to continue to refine our requirements there. probably in the mid-20s we're going to make a decision to go forward and build representative aircraft. our prototypes. and then we'll look at a low rate production of one of those proto types in the late 20s. but i think the first time we're going to move into full rate production would be in the early '30s, with getting this

into the field shortly thereafter. >> how does it look from the department of navy perspective? >> well, you're right, probably a lot of the audience is extraordinarily knowledgeable and more so than i am and that is why i have brilliant majors working for me, which i actually do, same thing we review around 2030s, 2033, around that time is when we first start to see feet introduction. could that be earlier? it could be. it could always accelerate in terms of priority and the funding is there. we envision cap set three in the marine corps as replacing the hmla, or h1 yankee and those are tell live any aircraft but we're planning ahead and when you think about it, the uh1 ranky [ inaudible ] came into fleet introduction in 2008, as a 25

year air frame. so 2033, our oldest yankees will be hitting the end of the useful life and looking to replace them with fvl cap set three and then following it again in '35 they'll start to hit their end of their useful air frame life and look to replace them. that puts us in a quandary in the interim because for us, mv22 has changed things in the marine corps and changed the game. i'm a pilot by trade by and less, that is my background, h1ws and i tell people [ inaudible ]. [ laughter ] one of the big missions was assault support escort, escort the ch46s. that is not a mission we can perform for the mv22. we don't have the range and speed and capability to do that. we envisioned cap set three as being able to do that. that is one of the very important things as we look forward in the marine corps as we look forward for the analysis

of alternatives. >> i'll sound like a broken record but we are absolutely tied to the army on this. the fleet, we finished fielding those in 2015 and we look at 25 years from that and that is where we're looking to absolutely line up with the army and take those new future vertical lift cap set three aircraft, apply the same type of modifications for equipment packages as necessary and really in the interim we're going to sustain our little bird fleet and our mh47 fleet and we're investing in those now so they will be relevant into the 2030s and as long as we could keep them relevant until the next opportunity comes for the next capability set. >> all right. i did want to open up now to audience questions. we'll have a mic brought to you and please briefly state your

name, your affiliation if you have one and make it a question. so i saw the firsthand right here. >> good morning, [ inaudible ] with c power magazine. this is for the colonel bar ano, where in the lift reach in trip capability are looking at? you've got the osprey, and midum lift and -- medium lift and then you talk about phasing out the yankee and the h1 and bringing in the 35 kilos for heavy lift, what reach -- what range are you looking? are you trying to do each one replacement, or heavier and longer? basically what capability are you most needing it for? >> yes, sir, that is a great question and one that gets asked often. and i think human nature is when you replace something, we try to

kind of pigeon hole. the v22 is replacement for the h46 our medium lift and it is true it did replace the h46. but to compare the v22 and its capability and its size what it can carry to the h46, it is really not apples to apples. and we have an experiencing v22 pilot here so i would defer to colonel freeman but we could fit as many troops on a 22 than on a 46 and the age and speed differences are well-known but a lot of people aren't aware of that. that it is actually not an exact replacement medium lift, it is medium lift plus. so as we look at replacing the yankee and the zoo lieu, woe like to carry eight people, eight marines, eight soldiers. that is a threshold. that is a threshold. the army looks at cap set three

as more of a replacement for h60. h60 was kind of comparable to h46. osprey is larger than both of those aircraft and carries more people. fvl cap set three we look at it as a yankee replacement and it carries less people than the h60. this is where the trade space discussion comes in. if it carries 11 or 12 people and does the other things that the marine corps wants it to do, that is great. that is fine. we view that as a bonus. now like the osprey replacing the h46, well that is a larger pay load. that is more troops. that is not an exact one to one, apples to apples replace. but that is fine. we would welcome that. if we were able to accomplish everything that we wanted to and have added capability to boot. that is great. eight is a threshold requirement because that is a lift capability that is no less than what we have now. with the added range and speed

that we want. if we can get more of everything, that would be tremendous and we welcome that. so we present that challenge to the industry. i hope that answers your question, sir. >> obviously cost is a key factor there, if you are replacing -- it needs to be in a cost range that matches a need there, too. >> hi, sammar bell, [ inaudible ]. could you address the integration of men on men teaming and organic sensing the w capabilities from that aspect? >> so our current man-to-man teaming capabilities, we're utilizing that in our tech aircraft and also in our utility

aircraft. we see the ability to expand that capability in order to not only really expand on the capability that we have in the apache to control different aircraft, we see that requirement throughout the family of systems, specifically capability set three. so we definitely want to continue to explore that. in line with man to man teaming, we want to explore the capability to optimally crew the vehicle. do we see fvl aircraft obviously controlling other aircraft with the potential of controlling fvl aircraft in the future? we do. but this is one of the areas that we really want to explore and see what the capabilities are. so it goes much farther than man-to-man teaming. it gets into, as we said, the optimally crude capability of

how different missions could require different crews, and just really continue to explore that and what are the potentials there. as far as advanced sensors, obviously that is something in development. and it goes back to the open architecture. the ability in the joint trade space across the services to use the same architecture, to use different sensors for the services, based on the different mission requirements and things of that nature, that is where we really see the development of that going. >> i completely agree. it kills me to admit this, the army ahead of us on man on man teaming. you guys are. there is no question about it. we do some of it in the marine corps and we have not taken it to the degree that the army has. that is absolutely one of our goals in the future. it is something we're working right now on kind of an off air frame knee board solution. because we don't have the over

architecture systems in our existing legacy platforms that we're building into fvl cap set three but we want it built into the cap set three and the capability of the systems out there that we allow you to do that now. the marine corps is developing a group five shipboard v tall uas right now that we envision as being partnered with fvl cap set three so we look at them as working very closely and tandem and parallel as we move forward. on the sensor piece, the other thing and there are systems out there now and i don't know how specific it is, so i'm going to avoid -- avoid getting too specific, but there are systems tlout now that exist -- systems out there now that exist, open architecture, wave form independent or wave form nondiscriminal that will allow us to do sensor fusion and allow us whatever our on board sensor is on fvl cap set three to send

other users an they couldin fuse what they are seeing in their cockpit and what they are going from all other users on the network so that you could have either built in the cockpit on your electronic knee board a few sensor pictures from across the spectrum of users in the joint force for any objective air target air that you are interested in. and our systems right now have that capability and we're looking to incorporate that in cap set three. >> i'm richard whittle, write for breaking defense.com. and everybody here probably sees the need for future vertical lift. some may think it is more urgent than others because taking another 15 years to get the aircraft into the fleet doesn't really seem realistic in the

21st century. but that said, there is a new sheriff coming to town. there is -- everybody is expecting a the -- the restra t restraints that come off on spending and the services will presumably get more money sometime soon but what i understand or want to get your views on is within your services, how widely shared is the interest in this program, how widely appreciated is -- are the benefits? because i have heard army officers cast doubt on the idea that you need anything faster than a black hawk or an apache. i think the marine corps has developed a different attitude for the v22 and i'm curious to know, there is still a limited pot of money, doesn't matter what the new president and the new congress do. so how much of it can be really

expected to get? how much -- what priority is there within the services for future vertical lift. >> let me just make one comment before i turn it over to the panel, the people you walely want to hear from, a lot of the work we've done in csis recently is looked at the question of what i would call the pipeline and what is very notable about the pipeline, certainly for vertical lift, up to now and to some extent for each of the services most acutely for the army is that the pipeline is pretty empty. so the question of bringing forward capability, you have to have something in the works. my friend general cody talks about when he was the vice chief and all of a sudden they were in a shooting war, what he was able to do was move a lot of combat capability to the field because it had been in development and there was something to accelerate. if there is nothing to accelerate and if you are starting from scratch, it is

going to take a long time, no matter what you do. and no matter how much of a priority you put on it. >> [ inaudible ]. >> let me let you hear from the panel. >> thank you. and that was a very good point. and really, as we move forward with fvl, it is about having something in the pipe there and ready to move forward with. you know, from an army perspective, we do have a requirement for increased capability. speed, range, pay load, endurance. we have some very capable aircraft in the fleet right now. and so it is a balance between maintaining the relevancy of those aircraft that are going to be in the fleet for a while, but at the same time pursuing new capabilities that is going to give the army a operational maneuver capability and a strategic deployment capability. what capabilities the army

chooses to pursue, that is well above my pay grade as a requirements developer. we are charged with talking to our users and developing a capability that we have sitting there in the pipeline ready to go. so as far as looking at the army capabilities, we have a very capable fleet and we need to maintain that capability and also we have a requirement for the future to enhance that capability through fvl. >> so i can add on to that just a little bit from the so com perspective. i think we have to look at what priorities now and what are the priorities in the future and i think wise investments as we watch -- as the army leads the effort, those wise investments could pay off in the future and i think there is a recognition of that within the so com and you asked about the interest and the benefits, there is definitely interest and definitely benefits but i think

the timing of the investments is what will matter once we see where the technology is with the demonstrators. >> back here on the aisle. >> i don't know about that. your question, sir, and you hear different what, is the commitment of the marine corps and you hear different voices in the army. that is good. it is natural. we -- everybody within the services welcomes different opinions. we're building doctrine for the future. as we have always done, we're coming out of a war, in this case over a decade plus of war, and it was a -- a relatively low intensity kind of in surgency effort and we have a remembrance of rehashing the same war and we're looking forward with

reemerging threats and reemerging potential competitors and are there different opinions an are strategies and opinions continuing to form there, we are trying to develop our doctrine, our concept for the future. and as always, the future is unknown. so, yes, i think there are different perspectives in the services and within the respective services. but right now the commitment to fvl within the army, so com and the marine corps, cap set three is very strong. and i anticipate us continuing to move forward as doctrine continues to form. and whatever that finally looks like, we know that the threat is growing and the capability that we're going to need in the future is more than we have now. that much we agree on. the nuances of where the trade space is and what the final fvl cap set three looks like and system looks like, i don't want

to say those are small details, they are not. but we all know that we need to advance our capabilities. that we agree on. so i don't know if that was out of the -- [ inaudible ]. >> i can't resist making one other point that really came up from what you were saying, we had an event here yesterday focused on innovation and dr. proppa car from darpa was one of the panelists and she made the point that really sort of game-changing innovation, a lot of times it is not about changing a specific technology or a specific system, it is about a new architecture that enables an entirely new set of capabilities, new concepts. and so one of the things that strikes me about future vertical lift is it is an effort to create ann entirely newark tecture. it is too early to speak to the success of that and what it will enable but that is not to say

you couldn't take aspects of it and pull it forward and buy them sooner, but unless you envision and try to reach to the newark tecture, you won't make as game changing shift as you wanted to. that is a point yesterday i wanted to raise. good morning, kevin christianson with lockheed martin. with regard to capability set three will that be in play for the aoa and if the army does not pursue an attack variant, do you think that capability set one or some other type of mitigating capability will be envisioned to cover air assault security that the army will need when it feels -- fields a much faster assault platform that the legacy security platforms will be able to keep up with. >> thanks, kevin. that is a good question. and probably one of the more interesting topics. right now the army's focus for

capability set three is the utility mission. and so once again, focused on the air assault, med evac capability. we see that as the greatest, once again, joint need. we have some additional study to do and work on where we see the next platform coming from or the next attack platform coming from. we definitely want to explore the marine approach to capability set three as an attack platform and we definitely want to explore possibly a smaller air frame as an attack platform. the army is maintaining a need for wide area security, a requirement there. obviously that could be answered by either a possible apache attack fvl replacement, or it could be answered by a smaller aircraft, more along the lines

of the oh58kw. the short answer, though, is that we have a lot more work to do. whether that will be a possibly -- a marine approach to the attack aircraft, whether it could be a kidded solution to the utility aircraft in a cap set three variety, or we have not ruled out the possibility once again of the smaller aircraft in a more lighter recognizance attack role. we look forward to the work we have to do on that and also the army's decision of how we're going to pursue that capability. >> hi, i'm david led, just consult independently. appreciate your comments and your mention of the early '30s time horizon and you mentioned an aoa and talking to the users

and your aspiration for technology and netting. with that kind of a horizon, can you speak about how you're engaging industry in the labs and the university and infrastructure at this time of the programs progress to make sure you don't leave something on the table or don't overreach. and know you're investing in tech demos but could you go beyond what you invested in for your demonstrates to what is your method or mechanism for that engagement to reform your requirements? >> well, we've -- to expand a little bit on the tech demo, there is two major components of the jmr tech demo program. obviously we have the aircraft demonstration component, where we are looking at fvl technology and also, and we've already talked about the open architecture, so the second part of the jmrtd program is the open architecture.

underneath the flight demonstration, we have four contracts with industry to develop either flying models or models for wind tunnels. i think -- i don't know the exact number underneath the architecture demonstration portion, but i think there is eight or ten contracts there involving industry. industry has done a phenomenal job of engaging the government through the vertical lift consortium, the vlc, where we've had one-on-one interaction. the other approach that we've used is through our request for information, rfi, and receiving industry feedback there, specifically on the fvl program, we've had two rfis on cap set three and had an rfi on cap set one. i believe we had eight respondents to our initial cap set three rfi and six responders to our cap set one rfi.

and we still have our second cap set three rfi that is out to industry right now for comment. so we've had a lot of engagement there. and then also through forums like this. and exchange. and we're also in contact with institutions as far as the colleges and other institutions for development of those capabilities. so i think we have a very broad net. whether we're not going to be able to capture everything, i think that remains to be seen. >> so i can speak to some of the venues that so com uses. we have the traditional venues and we absolutely leverage the army's s and t efforts and we have our own s&t that we leverage and we have broad area announcements and sippers and great ideas coming out of the s and t community and we have already established another venue off of macdill called soft

works and another opportunity to collaborate with industry and government and operators could come together and for example we absolutely looked at our own architecture that we have in the aircraft today, recently. so we held an event where we invited academia and industry and operators and we said come in and let's collaborate and talk about this, just to determine, even with the aircraft that we're sustaining, how should we sustain those until the 2030, 2040 time frame with the architecture and how could that inform what we do for future vertical lift. >> all right. well we got to all of the hands that i saw. and we are at the end of our hour. so i want to thank our audience coming and for asking great questions and being very attentive. and keep your eyes peeled for future events on future vertical lift. we do expect the series definitely to continue into next year and we'll have something --

i'm sure in the spring. and please join me in thanking our panel for a great presentation. [ applause ] [ proceedings concluded ] while congress is on break, we're showing american history tv programs normally seen only on the weekend here on c-span 3. we start at 8:00 eastern with

sport and race in the 1980s. followed by coroners in the 19th century south. u.s. refugee policy since world war ii and 20th century white supremacists groups. that is tonight on the american history tv prime time at 8:00 eastern. this week wash journal will devote the program to the key issues facing the trump administration in congress. on wednesday our issue is energy and climate issues being impacted by the new congress and the incoming trump administration. thursday, we'll talk about immigration and how president-elect trump and the new congress might change immigration policy. and on friday morning, we'll take a look at future of the affordable care act and how the republican congress and the trump administration will repeal and replace the aca and the key players to watch in the months ahead. be sure to watch washington

journal at 7:00 a.m. eastern. >> join us on tuesday for live coverage of the opening day of the new congress. watch the official swearing in of the new and re-elected members of the house and senate. and the election of the speaker of the house. our all-day live coverage of the day's events from capitol hill begins at 7:00 a.m. eastern on c-span and c-span.org or listen to it on the free c-span radio app. >> policy analysts now on job training for prison inmates. and the state of the criminal justice system. this 40-minute event was hosted by the center for law and social policy. >> hi, everyone. welcome. i'm david socolow from the center of law and social policy or clasp. we are delighted to be hosting this event to discuss

reconnecting justice, how opportunities in correctional education and training can help millions of our fellow americans move from incarceration to reentry. i want to give a warm welcome to the 200 of you gathered here in the room. to those watching via web cast, we have more than 700 of you from across the country in 48 states, the district of columbia and puerto rico registered for the webcasts. welcome to all of you being here with us virtually and to many more of you watching us on a live broadcast on c-span3. thank you to c-span for covering this very important topic. we are really glad in particular to see the many participants from a wide array of field doing important work from many different angles. we are really excited to learn from all of you about how we can work across silos. i want to give a special welcome

to our friends from lumina foundation for being with us here today to many different members of congressional offices, staffs who have joined us for their continued and long-time leadership in this field over many years. we're very glad there are so many key officials from federal, state, county and municipal governments that have joined us today and leaders from colleges and universities. many policy advocates and researchers, employers and others with really deep commitment and expertise in various different solutions related to poverty, social justice, human services, workforce development, education, employment, and criminal justice and different other fields. it is an amazing group that has gathered with us here and on the webcast. we thank you all for participating.

clasp is a vital part of our anti-poverty mission. we advocate for practical solutions and visionary strategies for reducing poverty and promoting economic security and addressing barriers faced by people of color. we promote workforce training, post secondary education and career pathways that low income adults and youth need to succeed. our work on education, training and employment has led us to focus on the particular needs of those involved in the justice system. in america today, more than 2 million people are in prison, the majority of whom are african-american or hispanic. among young adults incarcerated, those between 18-24, 49% are african-american and 24% are hispanic. overall, those who are incarcerated come disproportionately from low

income communities and have median preincarceration earnings of less than $20,000 a year. so this forum is part of our broader agenda. it is the second in our series addressing intersections among education, employment and justice reform. last june, the class posted a forum and published a paper on realizing youth justice, sparking a conversation about the experiences of youth of color within the context of criminal justice, racial equity and economic disparities. in today's forum, we will turn our attention to adults in the role of education and training during and after incarceration. for returning citizens to get hired in jobs that can lift them out of poverty, the systems will be talking about today must be part of a broader approach to addressing mass incarceration and collateral consequences.

just as it is a mistake to train people for jobs that don't exist, efforts to remove barriers and open up job opportunities have to be coordinated with skills training. so that returning citizens can earn post secondary credentials that give them a fair chance as being hired for the jobs that are being made available. before we get today's program started, there are a few brief housekeeping items. for those of you in the room, restrooms are in the hallway here adjacent to this room. please, take this time to check the settings on your mobile device, to say "silent" during the event. while you have your device out and you are looking at it, please take note of the wi-fi password for here in the room. you can tweet at #reconnectingjustice. we hope you all do that. as you think of questions for the "q" and "a" portion of our forum today, those of you here in the room, please write them down if you would like on the

index cards which are provided in your packets. otherwise, you also can and everybody watching at home can send questions to events@clasp.org. if you would send those, we will be able to get them to the speakers and have a lively two-way interactive session. that is events@clasp.org. once again, thank you for joining us and now it is my pleasure to introduce my colleague at clasp who has done such an amazing job with our team putting together today's forum, wayne tolliaferro. [ applause ] >> thank you, david, for opening today's event and setting that broader context.

before i introduce our speaker, i want to offer some additional frame of remarks about why we are here today. today, we are here to listen, discuss and ask questions about aspects of a topic that have become one of the biggest racial, social, and economic justice issues of our time. as you have already heard, over 2 million people in america are incarcerated. that's more than any other country in any other developed world. while that number is egregious in and of itself, it is even more troubling about why we lock them up and what that means for our society. for some of us, these issues are personal. for others, that connection may be more distant. for our society, families and communities and the humanity that connects us, we can not afford to continue to write off an entire segment of our population.

we also can't assume that this blame does not lie with the systematically ingrained justices that face us today. as you'll hear throughout today's event, the pipelines from low communities of color to incarceration are well-documented and rooted in legacies of economic injustice, institutionalized racism and problems with the justice system and failed policies that have culminated in the system of mass incarceration we know today. too often, one of the byproducts of these injustices is low levels of educational attainment, specially for the individuals who end up in prison. among the prison population, the average educational attainment level is 10.4 years of schooling. among young black men in prison, less than 1 in 3 have a high school diploma. for young hispanic men, less than 1 in 5. in today's economy where most

jobs require some form of education beyond high school, these numbers are even more tragic. between the lack of form education and skills among prisoners and the collateral consequences that come with the consequences that come with the criminal record, incarceration essentially deals people a life of second-class citizenship. for people of color, those effects are even more dire. that's why today's panels are so important. to better understand how education and training opportunities for this very population can serve as one solution to reentry and success. so individuals can build skills and succeed in the labor market. we know it is not a cure-all. it is definitely one place for us to start. we brought together panelists, speakers, and audience members from all levels of government, industry, higher education,

legal services and many other fields to hopefully critically examine these issues and leave us all ready to effect change. i also want to point out that the folders you receive today include a newly released report from class that looks at the landscape of correctional educational, both from the funding and programming standpoint and also how it ties to reentry. the report is co-authored by me and my colleagues at clasp, anna salinsky and dewey familiar and currently available on www.clasp.org. the recorded version of today's event will be available on our website later as well. i would like to turn the program over to our esteemed speaker, nick turner, president of the institute of justice an independent nonprofit that work to end the misuse of jails, transform conditions of confinement and ensure the

justice systems are more effectively serving america's growing minority communities. nick has been at the institution since 1998 and has served as president since 2013. he is a nationally recognized leader on criminal justice reform issues. we are so excited to have him with us today. without further ado, i present nick turner. good afternoon, everyone. >> that was good i don't even have to ask you to do it again. whenever someone introduces me as being esteemed or nationally recognized, i always feel like they are talking about someone else. i don't feel i quite fit that bill with you i will do what i can to live up to that introduction.

i want to begin first by saying how pleased i am to have been invited to speak to all of you to be invited to an event that is organized by clasp. clasp is an organization i have long admired in many respects. the vera institute of justice and clasp are sort of the same generation, a generation that was born of recognition and great challenge and an opportunity to remake society and draw a greater attention to social justice issues and give voice to the underserved. like you, we care a great deal about racial justice at vera. you take a lens of anti-poverty work as you pursue it. we have always been in the justice reform lane, a slightly narrower lane. i think we have been running

together for a long time. toss wonderful to be here. olivia, i have been watching you, you may not know, i have been watching you since i had my first job in d.c. at a place called sasha youth work. you were at a children's defense fund there and up in new york as now in this role. when i looked at the board members for dra also, i saw names like peter edelman and joe anek and angela glover blackwell and sarah war tell and donna cooper, all of whom i have great admiration for. i couldn't be more thrilled to be here. i am going to tell you a little bit about what i hope to do

and why this is such an important moment for justice reform and poor people in this country. i want to explain a little bit why paying attention to breaking the cycle of incarceration through some of the things that wayne just spoke about, a broad array of education and training for people in prison and then leaving prison is essential and a critical issue. i want to focus specifically on post secondary education in prison. i will describe what i believe is an opportunity for all of us to do something really big. before i get into that, i want to show you a short film. so if you would just turn your attention to the screen behind me, you can enjoy this for about two minutes. we're so lucky to spend mother's day together. there are hundreds of thousands of kids whose moms are

incarcerated this mother's day. >> we wanted kids to share letters they wrote to their moms. >> dear mom. >> hi, mom, i miss you very much. >> i know i don't write you a lot but this letter right here is actually pretty special. >> your second mother's day away. i took to facebook and posted, i love my mother. >> i miss your love. i miss your hugs. >> every mother's day, i listen to all of our favorite songs. >> i think about you all the time, at night when i'm getting ready to go to bed. it makes me think of the most amazing mom that i have. >> i miss playing with you and sleeping with you at night. >> i miss you, mom and i miss how you always used to say on facebook. i miss how you used to -- i can't do it. >> i've been having some personality issues about my sexuality.

i wish you weren't in prison so you could be here to help me with it. >> school is kind of good but fighting in school is difficult. >> recently, i was inducted for the national honor society at my school. >> something good that's happened to me, i went roller-skating. >> mom, i love riding bikes, because i just love riding them. >> dear mom, i will always love you no matter what happens. >> i can't wait to see you. >> from your firstborn, tashante. >> happy mother's day. >> i love you mom. >> happy mother's day.

>> click on the link below to see more love letters to mom. >> i show you that video not because it has a substantive connection to the reason we have all gotten together here today but because it is important for all of us to do this work to remember the people who we are doing this work for. sometimes we get caught up in the evidence and the politics of the moment. we sometimes even those of us who are so deeply committed stop thinking about the human beings whose lives we are trying to improve. so this is something i have showed on a few occasions, because i find it very, very grounding. so as i promised you, i should say that video was something

that was produced by google. there is actually one for father's day too equally affecting. as i promised you, one of the things i wanted to talk to you about was this moment in history. i would say that we really are -- this is a paradoxical moment. we are in a moment where we have before us a massive decades in the making arguably centuries in the making problem, this system of mass incarceration, that has been argued has kept us safe. we also have in this moment what i would argue as unparalleled momentum and opportunity. and it really is a true moment in history. i want to breakdown those two things for you. what do i mean by massive problem? >> let me try to put this in numerical terms for you. i know that not everyone here is

deeply involved in criminal justice work and you come at this from different angles, maybe from a commitment to education or to workforce training but we are talking about a system that on any given day has 2.3 million people behind bars in this country. some in jails and some in prisons. we are what i often describe as an international aberration. this country is responsible for 5% of the globe's population but 25% of the imprisoned population. when you compare us with many of the countries we view to be our peers, the oecd nations, many western democracies, we are incarcerating at a rate of six to ten times more than they are. you might ask yourself, well, you know, okay, that's fine. maybe this is a more violent society. maybe there are reasons for that. maybe we get a much better

return on investment than these other countries do but the answer to that is, no, that is not the case. we are investing around $80 billion a year in correctional services. he recidivism raid, two thirds of people released will be rearrested after three years and little less than half will be reincarcerated. so you have to ask yourselves the question, why are are we spending all of this money to put people behind bars for results that are far from positive. on the human level, as you saw in the film, this affects the children of the incarcerated and you know this just imposes an intergenerational burden. for people being released from prison, they are facing what michelle alexander referred to as the new jim crow, a species

of second class citizenship that bars them from all of the things that we need as citizens to succeed whether it is entry into the labor force, whether it is a safe place to live, whether it is financial support for education. the complex and infrastructure to barriers to entry back into society are astonishing. i think someone said that when having done a national survey, that there were 44,000 different state or local or federal provisions in one way or another shut people out of the labor market or housing or student aid or jobs. so it is astonishing. we also know that imprisonment has a huge impact on people's income, on hours worked, on the

ability to build wealth. then, we can go further and think about the communities that are impacted. as wayne mentioned, one in three african-american men will spend time in jail or prison in their lifetime. many of these men come from communities that are of concentrated poverty that are increasingly segregated and so what we are doing is we are participating in a process that is disappearing men from these communities, women too. but it is most powerfully felt by the men and that means there are fewer fathers, there are fewer partners and lovers and fewer workers in those communities and the impact on those communities' abilities to thrive, to have strong economies, to have workforce exists not only in this moment today but just perpetuates

itself intergenerationally. it is a massive, massive problem that we are confronting. if i could be optimistic for a moment, i know that's hard for a washington, d.c. crew. because we are in this moment when there is so much head scratching and head shaking about the political debate that's going on or the inability to get things done in washington. i do want to point out for those of you that have not paid a lot of attention to criminal justice that this is a highly unusual moment. despite the challenge of the work that needs to be done. i have in the 25 years that i have worked in this space never seen a moment when there is as much heightened attention to the problems that we're confronting and as much energy and mobilization from unusual people who i never thought cared about the issue as i'm seeing now. i think the reasons for that,

others may disagree. i think they are fourfold. people are finally just shocked at the numbers that they see that we have quoted from this podium already. i think that stories of people who have been impacted by the system. people who have spent time in jail or prison and are raising their voices and are being leaders in the movement has had a tremendous impact. you can find that in everyday folk and you can also find that in political leaders. some of the political leaders on the right who are the most vociferous about trying to change the system, either spent time in prison or had a loved one spend time in prison. that kind of proximity has woken folks up. i think it is hard to also ignore the existence of citizen journalism that we have seen in the past few years, which is focused almost entirely upon

policing. what it has done, it has showed something to america that many people in america probably struggled to believe or accept. >> that the criminal justice system was rigged against people tf color and that the interactions of the people of color had with the justice system were so different than what many americans had ever imagined could be true. i heard a colleague refer to it as sort of the big foot problem, people argue about whether big foot exists and then you see a film of it, and then you're like, oh, yeah, it does exist. that's what happened with these films. it's invited people in and shocked the conscious and made people understand more about what is going on and it doesn't

just stop at policing. it goes deep into the system as a whole. and finally, there's an ideological convergence that folks aren't right whether they're evangelical or libertarian or fiscal hawks, i think this is mostly at the elite leader level. i'm not entirely convinces that folks in the grassroots on the right are fully owning the need and desire to change the system, but they have joined with the progressive grassroots in calling for change and that is a phenomenon in and of itself but it also makes more people curious given what happens in washington during the state of our political discourse there is what i sometimes call a man bites dog element to that story where people think, what, conservatives and progressives are aligning together on something. this is a paradoxical moment.

huge problem. decades in the making. but more opportunity and momentum to change than we have ever seen before, i think certainly in the last 50 years. so i want to talk a little about post secondary education in prison but it exemly fys in a park dox. i think that the growing interest in post secondary in prison indicates a broader movement that reflects what i would describe as a resurgeance of interest among people in the rehabilitative role that our justice system needs to play. we are witnessing the slow rebirth and return of an embrace of that value. and there's no doubt that post secondary education in prison is much needed. you can harken back just to the facts that i gave you about the

high rates of reas i said vix for people who are coming out of prison and jails and we need to have intervention that are proven, that -- that are supported by evidence actually reducing recidivism but much more important improving theout comes of people that are leaving prisons. and some tf those outcomes are, you know, i think are probably well-known by this group. one thing that i'm always reminded of is that having completed a college education is what we sometimes refer to at ver v vera as a protective factor. when you look at the growth of the prison population in the states from 1970 until 2010 the vast majority of the growth are in the demographic of people who

have not gone to college. people who participate in educational programs are being rearrested or reincarcerated at a far lower rate. there's a higher chance of gaining employment upon release, higher chance of higher earnings and for an organization like clasp and i imagine for many of those who are in this room, the -- the two generations sort of bang for your buck that you get with college education is really important, because we know that -- that children whose parents have sought a post secondary education are far more likely to go pursue their post secondary education in college than if their parents had not. so again, looking back at the film, that is 2.7 million children of the incarcerated and we know how important a college

education is to succeed in this economy and the economy of the future. but i think college and prison is also important for other reasons beyond the evidence beyond its ability to improve outcomes for people. it is relatable. everyone in this room understands how important college either has been for you or for your loved ones and essential and understands increasingly what an essential aspect it is of people's ability to participate fully in the american economy. and so being able to expand access to that in prison, i think, is an important humanizing aspect. it is a way to help people to get approximate -- we have spent way too much time in this country treating people who have been effected by the criminal justice system as other, not like me. that's those folks on the other side of town, you know, who we

are scared of, but, in fact, they are parents and they are strivers and inspiring and want to accomplish many of the same things we all do in this room. it's important as a humanizing thing. it's really important at this moment in time i think we should all be focusing on post secondary education in prison even though we know that training and other forms of education are really important, is there's a big opportunity to make a difference, i think, in the next three to four years. so you all may know the story about college in prison. the 1994 crime bill which many people have talked about in the context of this current election, included a ban on the use of pell grants, federal financial aid for students in prison and that had a dramatic effect on programs. prior to the 1994 bill there were around 270 college programs providing courses to around

23,000 people in prison, and after the 1994 act went into effect, 44% of those programs ended. if you look at it on the state level, my state, my home state, new york, there were 0i67 programs that were operating before 1994, flash forward to 2008, there were eight. so -- so what that did is it took the main source of funding and there are a lot of wonderful programs that continue to operate. there are people here who you will be listening to that have dedicated their lives to them but they required often generosity, charity dollars rather than a reliable federal stream of money. so that's a circumstance that we're still leaving in. that ban exists except last year the obama administration did something very important. even though the congressional ban exists, as the great clasp

paper actually talks about, the obama administration used what is called experimental authority to essentially test -- to test the use of pell grants in supporting students who are students in prison. and put out an rfp for institutes for higher learning to apply for these students and over 220 colleges and universities applied and said, yes, we want to run programs over this three year experimental program. and 69 were chosen by the administration. so for the next three years we'll have 69 colleges and universities in 28 states, blue, red and purple that will be educating 12,000 students in a year and the estimated leverage in federal dollars is

$30 million a year to support that. so it's a remarkable expansion but it is time limited. and that's important for us to know because what we now have is a window of opportunity with programs and 70 colleges, 28 states that means that there will be -- there will be experiments where corrections and education work together where small business owners in places can find new employees, where sheriff's and law enforcement can stand up and talk about the benefits of these kinds of programs when they are released and that road will run, again, through blue and purple and red states. and so if you can imagine all of the positive messages that can come out of this experiment, not just serving -- not just serving the student population, but the

right messagers who may or may not be talking to their delegations up on the hill and talking about jobs found and happy employers who have an expanded labor pools, about families who are supported and people not returning to prison. you can imagine this. you can imagine coalition of employers and small businesses, law enforcement and education locally elected all saying to their congressional delegations this is worthwhile and important. we are invested in it and we want it to continue. so i think that tlas window of opportunity for the next three years to figure out how we can actually overturn the ban and return to pre-1994 days. make america great again. so a few parting thoughts. overturning this ban would be great. it would bring education to thousands of people. it would reduce poverty. it would break the cycle.

it would help children of the incarcerated go to college and it would increase income and wealth. that's not enough for all of us to do in this room and i want to bring it back to the film for a second. i showed you that film not because you are all a policy wonks but i showed it to you as citizens of this country. we created what we have, democracy was the culprit that got us to the 1994 bill and got us to all of the things that had happened in the decades before. it's a lot of policy like the 1994 bill. and democracy was basically neglectful. it neglected the ramifications that you saw on the film, the impact of relying on incarceration, the impact on families and individuals and it communities. it absolutely neglected that. it neglected the evidence that we know that exists about the

kinds of good policies that can actually put people on the road to success, that can actually deliver public safety for us and it can actually be the spine for good policy. so democracy has work to do here in a different way now. we have a job to do over the next decades to turn back what we have built. and so that's why it's good that all of you are are in this room and you will go about your work focusing not only on training and education and making sure that programs, the quality programs are -- fine their way back into prison and into the reentry sphere but you're also going to have to do something else beyond just being good professionals. you need to vote in local elections for the das who are running and ask them what they are running on, what is it that

you expect these guardians of our justice system to be able to deliver to you. is it more convictions, longer sentences for people or is it making better choices about the discretion they have as to who they want to send to the big house. you need to educate yourselves and you need to educate those who are around you about this system of incarceration that we have built for 40 years. you need to talk to your children about it. you need to show people that video and the father's day video. you need to talk to friends and spouses. you need to go watch av a's film and have discussion groups if you have book groups, have a movie group it is so important for all of us to get engaged, to make sure that the kind of neglect that led us to where we are now is not going to exist any more and, in fact, that being informed and engaged is the thing that is going to make the difference in the broad complex of policy that we have

to turn around. we have a lot of hard work to do. we need everyone. we need good policy, but most of all we need inspired and tireless citizens like yourselves. thank you very much for being here. [ applause ] while congress son break we're showing american history tv programs normally seen only on the weekend here on c-span3. we start at 8:00 p.m. eastern with sport and race followed by coroner's in the 19th century south, u.s. refugee policy since world war ii and white supremist group. that's tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern. this week on c-span3 in primetime. tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern

president barack obama and japanese prime minister shinzo abe visit the pearl harbor naval base. mr. abe is the first prime minister to visit the site. a review of house and senate hearings from 2016. on topics including the flint, michigan water crisis and the wells fargo unauthorized act scandals. >> seriously you found out that one of your divisions had created 2 million fake accounts, had fired thousands of employees for improper behavior and had cheated thousands of your own customers and you didn't even once consider firing her ahead of herrer tirement? >> thursday at 8:00 p.m. eastern we remember some of the political figures that passed away in 2016 including former first lady nancy reagan and supreme court court justice anthony ska leah and pry night at 8 or in memoryiam continues

and former senator and astronaut john glenn. >> sunday in-depth will feature a live discussion on the presidency of barack obama. we're taking your phone calls, tweets and facebook questions during the program. our panel includes april ryan white house correspondent for american ushen radio networks. my upclose view of three presidents and race in america. princeton university professor -- and prize winner of the washington post david maranis, barack obama the story. sound on book tv on c span 2. >> senator john mccain and fo