self-defense. more commonly known as the black panthers. the party advocated for civil rights of black americans. next, party co-founder bobby seale and photographer stephen shames discuss their book "power to the people, the world of the black panthers." they sat down with filmmaker byron hurt to discuss the impact of the organization after 50 years. first we'll see some of mr. shames' photographs. the schomberg center for research in black culture and stephen casher gallery cohosted this event. >> as we turn to tonight, byron hurt will lead us on tonight's fantastic journey with bobby seale and stephen shames. for more than 20 years, hurt has been using his craft, his voice and his writings to broaden and deepen how people think about gender violence, race, visual

media. his documentaries include i am a man, black masculinity, in america, beyond beaten rhymes and soul food junkies. in october, 1966, as you all know, bobby seale and hughie p. newton established the original black panther party in oakland, california. [ cheers and applause ] seale was the founding chairman and national organizer from 1966 to 1974. seale's an author, educator and tireless advocate for the legacy of the black panther party. stephen shames is a student at the university of california berkeley, first encountered and photographed bobby seale in april of 1967, in an anti-vietnam war rally. seale became a mentor to shames, and shames became the most trusted photographer to the party, remaining by seale's side during his run for mayor of

oakland in 1973. stephen shames is the author of nine monographs, the latest power of the people, the black panthers, co-authored with bobby seale. he creates award-winning photos for advocacy organizations, the media and museums. steve's images are in the international center for photography, the bancroft library, university of california at berkeley, the museum of fine arts in houston, the philadelphia museum of afrt, the ford foundation and many other notable institutions. steve has been profiled by "people" magazine and cbs sunday morning. before i turn the conversation over to byron hurt, or moderator, stephen shames will take us through a few photographs. and as we invite stephen shames to come out, i'm going to ask one more time that we silence our cell phones, no flash photography, and following the

conversation there will be a q&a opportunity. and they will bring the mics around. we ask that you use these mike migs because we are archiving this for our archive purposes, and documenting this for archive purposes. let me recognize any black panthers who are in the room this evening. [ cheers and applause ] >> please welcome stephen shames. [ applause ] >> yeah, thank you all for coming. as you all know, the black panther party was a political party that ran candidates for office and had more than 50

community programs. what i'm going to do briefly before we start is show you some pictures from the book that bobby seale and i did to commemorate the 50th vrsz of the black panther party. the first picture is really, why was there a necessity for a black panther party. obviously in what we think of as the richest nation in the history of humankind, there was poverty, there's racism, there were a lot of issues. and the black panther party started to deal with those issues. one of the issues was police brutality. and in the first issue of the black panther paper, what you're seeing here, denzel dahl was shot in richmond. and that was really one of the first issues that the black panthers addressed. obviously that's all been solved, as we know.

the picture on the right is bobby seale selling redbooks. that's actually the first picture i took of any black panther. and that's when i met bobby seale. they were selling redbooks, and bobby will probably tell you more about that. shortly after the panthers were founded, huie newton went on trial and free newton came about. there are some panthers in the park which has been renamed bobby hutton park. and there is chairman bobby seale speaking in the park. kathleen cleaver with some panthers. and kathleen spoke a while ago here. and she was a leader of the

panthers. the panthers were on the forefront of a lot of issues. one of them was women's rights, the other was gay rights. although women were not equal back then, in the panthers, women had more leadership roles than they did in any other organization that i know of, left or right-wing organization, or even in the government. there were very few women in congress. very few women judges. very few people who weren't white in positions of government, or power at that time. angela davis is on the left. she was a panther briefly. and the picture on the right is important to me, because it just shows how the panthers resonated with the youth in the community. this is a cover of the book. it's one of my favorite pictures of the panthers. the panthers were very disciplined, very organized. they looked sharp.

they commanded respect. they were very charismatic. there's eldridge cleaver. and that's the crowd listening to eldridge cleaver. and anyone who wants to tell you that the panthers were kind of a marginal organization needs to look at the crowds that came out for them. the other thing that's interesting is i just put a little -- that isn't in my picture, but the panthers as early as 1968 ran candidates for office. they weren't just out demonstrating, they were running people for office. and then very shortly after this, they started the community program. this is the panther office. after hughie newton was not convicted of first-degree murder, in his trial, two police officers who i believe were intoxicated, shot up the office. you can see the symbolism. they were shooting at hughie.

bobby hutton was the first panther, little bobby hutton was 17 years old, was the first panther who was shot by the police. and this is a poster. that isn't my picture, but we put that poster in the book. on the right, you're seeing on the top, george murray from san francisco state. on the bottom is university california berkeley, where i was a student. the panthers were instrumental in two of the first student strikes to establish black studies department. bobby tells me that at merit college, it was actually the first black studies course that he started. but these were the first student strikes to establish the departments. and really, the idea, again, back then, everything was about white people, mostly white males. and the contributions that women and minorities and other people

in america made to this great country were pretty much ignored in the university, so the panthers were part of that struggle to establish black studies, which are now at many universities, and high school courses. people don't often remember that. panthers. survival programs. again, the panthers had 50 or 60 different community programs. some of which, such as the breakfast program, were later run by the lyndon johnson incorporated them into his war on poverty. but they weren't doing it until the panthers did it. and one of the reasons they did it is because the panthers became incredibly popular. a gallup poll that came out gave them a 90% positive rating in the black community. most lly because of the program. so the government figured, we better get in there and do that. which, actually, in my opinion, they should have been doing all

along. but they weren't. the other thing that to me is very important about this picture, and i want you to really reflect on this, how often do you see a positive image of a black man in the media? even today? when you turn on the news, when you look at the media. one of the things i learned when i was hanging with the panthers is, this was common. the panthers were interacting with the community, with youth. in a very positive way. and one of the things that i wanted to show in the book is to show that, to kind of counteract the image that the people had about than thers, that they were just a bunch of thugs running around demonstrating, which is what the government wanted us to believe. i dare anyone to try and take away those food bags from those two women. some very militant revolutionary

women sitting there. that's, again, what i loved about working with the panthers, is they really energized the community. i don't know if you can read it clearly, but this is a list of the panther programs that they were running. on the top right is a senior program. the panthers in dangerous neighborhoods would escort seniors when they went shopping, so they didn't get robbed. and back then, social security checks were actually mailed. they didn't go directly into your bank account like they do now. so, you know, seniors would often get robbed on the way to the bank and the panthers would escort them. obviously with the panthers there, nobody would rob them. the clothing program. the free shoe program. the free medical clinics. sick will cell testing. panthers were the pioneers of bringing attention to sickle cell. the panthers went out in the community. they didn't make people come to

them, to their clinics, they would go door to door, they would go out in the community. they started a really excellent school that received an award from the california state legislature. and those are some of the panther kids. i just love this picture, pause it's just -- the newspaper, the panthers started a newspaper. it was a communique, but also a way for them to engage in the community. panthers, you know, would get up at 4:00, 5:00 in the morning, they would make breakfast for kids, then they would go to the office. they would sell the newspaper. they would do things all day. and then in the evening, they would have a political education class. and they had to read. and really, you know, learn about things. the panther offices were often like a community center. people would come. on the left, that's emory douglas, the panther artist, who created -- [ applause ]

>> exactly. emory is an incredible artist who is now just starting to get his due in museums, et cetera. that's gloria abernathy. they're picketing mayfair. and in the forefront are three members of the lumpin, which was a panthers musical group. here they were picketing a black business. they had helped bill's liquors, the -- the black liquor stores weren't often given favorable discounts, so when they were trying to be in business, they would discriminate against them. the panthers helped them. and in return, they asked that they donate to the program. when bill's liquors refused to, they picketed him. you know, peacefully. and brought that to the attention of the community.

jamal joseph is on the right. is jamal here? [ applause ] jamal is a noted filmmaker, and he's a professor at columbia university. that's bobby speaking at a survival conference. these are some philadelphia panthers. just, you know, out in the community. this is toledo. this is the office in new haven. when the fbi, under president richard nixon, started attacking panther offices and assassinating people in the middle of the night, the panthers fortified their offices. this was during bobby's trial, mayday, in 1970 in new haven. and there was a rumor that the office was going to be raided. and the crazy photographer stayed in the office all night with the panthers. but the police never came,

luckily. or maybe i wouldn't be here right now. new york. fred hampton on the left. [ applause ] i've got to wrap up so i'll go through real fast. new york 21. some of the new york 21. again, new york 21. this is the new york panther office in brooklyn. again, why was the black panther party needed. you can kind of see, they were right there in the community. i put some pictures of some new york panthers in here to honor the new york panthers who are here tonight. and you can clap for them. [ applause ] on the left is david hilliard, who was a chief of staff. that's hughie newton with elaine brown on the right. george jackson. [ applause ]

george jackson's funeral. and look at the turnout for george jackson's funeral. that's a safeway supermarket in the back. and that was kind of shut down for the funeral. the manager of the safeway called the police and said, could you clear the crowd out? and the police said, you're closed down today. the black panther office in oakland. again, i love this picture, because it just shows, you know, these aren't dangerous people. they were integrated in the community. people are coming by and talking to them. hughie p. newton. the picture, hughie and bobby, again, the type of access that i had, to be able to take pictures, that you didn't normally see in the media. these guys would crack each other up. that's bobby when he was in jail. erica huggins who was on trial with him in new haven. that's big man. big man, one of the original six

original panthers. i love that picture of that kid. that kind of symbolizes the whole '60s, doesn't it. bobby campaigning for mayor. i was with him every day during the campaign. 40% of the vote. i'm ending just by showing some pictures from a rally in washington for some of the people today who have been shot, to kind of bring things up to date 50 years later. as we know, people are still having trouble breathing. black lives matter. and, you know, here we are today. so thank you very much. [ applause ] >> thank you, stephen. please welcome byron hurt and chairman bobby seale. >> thank you very much. [ cheers and applause ]

>> mr. steele? [ applause ] >> thank you all very, very much. this is great. we haven't even gotten started yet. this is wonderful. the images on the screen that you talked about were great. and so welcome. my name is byron hurt. thank you very much for joining us this evening, which is going to be a great evening. we know it's going to be a great exchange between two luminaries of the black panther party. so we're really happy that you came out. and i want to give another shout-out to all of the black

panthers who are in the building. one more shout-out to all of the black panthers. [ applause ] of course, to bobby seale. we don't have a whole lot of time, so let's get this started. i want to get right into it. mr. seale, i want to ask you about your relationship with mr. shames, with stephen. can you tell us the first time that you remember meeting mr. shames? and talk about the encounter that you had with him. and the story about the redbook. >> it was simple. how this happened, hughie called up asking me how much money i had, and i said, i have $300, $400, why? hugh was always broke. he didn't have any money. in those early days. until i got him a job. i worked for the city government of oakland, california, at the time. and hughie says, i know how we can raise some money.

what? have you been hearing on the news about the little redbook, 1 million people holding their little redbook over in china, m mao tse-tung's book. with eleft our guns at home. of course, we were there to sell books, you know what i mean? blah, blah, blah. my point is, we were up around the university of california selling these redbooks, ged your redbook, $1. bang, i thought that was a pretty good profit. which we needed bad. because we were a ragtag organization. you have to imagine, i ain't got but 13, 14 party members at this period. this was the early days of the black panther. running out in oakland, berkeley, california. we sold those 200 redbooks. went back and got 200 more and sold those in an hour. got hughie newton a pump shotgun

that he wanted. and paid the rent. on the office, what have you. found out that there was going to be an anti-war, anti-vietnam war rally at the football stadium in san francisco in two weeks. so i took my next paycheck from the city government and ran over and bought 2,500 books, redbooks. and we took -- i guess i had about 16 of us selling redbooks at the stadium. there was more than 25,000 people there. and we sold all those redbooks that day. get your redbook, $1, et cetera. a couple of days later, for the first time, we opened the book and read it. with ehad not even read this book. [ laughter ] we had not read this book. now, the black panther party did not start out on the basis of

marks ism. people think it did, but it didn't. look at the ten-point platform and program. it says nothing about marxism, et cetera. we called it the community cooperatives, promised 40 acres and two mules, et cetera. i knew no marxism. i had digested books like france minone, wretched of the earth, the works of dr. herbert affleck. he documented 250 slavery votes in the year 1800 to 1857. and what he constituted a slavery vote involved ten or more slaves. he also went on to say, dr. herbert aflac, in that work, that there was lots of resistance involving less than ten slaves of one kind or another. on the part of black folks during slavery. that blew my mind when i understood that.

because the old notion that blacks were just do sill and sit around, that is a prop oh gags of history away. i forgot in english class, in high school, one of the teachers said, well, you know, i guess the slaves could have enjoyed themselves somewhat. because they would sit up sometimes on the stoop and play the banjo, you know what i mean? that kind of stuff. what i'm digesting in the early 1960s is it's different. i digested wb boyce's black reconstruction. to learn 168,000 black men was enlisting in the northern union army to kick the confederates' butts. 38,000 died. very, very important piece of history for me. because it showed me something. we are not docile, we're not

backwards, all the other crap that was going on. black folks on every level took avenues, or whatever, whether it was the underground railroad, et cetera, a lot of them were killed for trying to escape from slavery, et cetera. they took every avenue to try to get out of slavery. and this is very important to understand that. because what abraham lincoln did was he said, in these five states here, the heaviest resistance of the confederate, i can't get any more people from the north to come down here to be soldiers, so i'm going to make all the blacks in these five states emancipation proclamation. the very next line says, what, every black man will be taken into the northern union army. and that's the key. the black folks were like, whoa, we've got a chance, and jumped in, to get in and get rifles and get trained and fight. they're the ones that abraham

lincoln said if it had not been for the black man, they would not have won the war. what i'm saying here -- [ applause ] wait a minute, the confederates got their asses kicked by the brothers. [ cheers and applause ] and they haven't got over it yet. >> brother seale, i want to talk about these images up on this screen. these images are very powerful. are these images not powerful? these are very, very powerful images. [ applause ] it's a beautiful book that combines both text and images to tell the story, the history of the black panthers. and what i'm curious about is, you, and how you got such deep access to the panthers. and what i want to know is, how did you allow this man to have such deep access when we all

know at this point that the black panthers were being deeply infiltrated, right, and surveilled by the u.s. government. so what enabled you all to have trust in this man to take a photographic sort of documentation of your history? >> when i met him, i only had 15, 16 black panther party members. i said, you're going to take pictures of my organization? he said, yeah. i said, i need pictures for my black panther party newspaper. we were only coming out once a month at this time. he said, yeah, sure. we were talking to him, rapping to him. the guy was a progressive guy. he related to the fact that our civil rights was always -- he was against the war in vietnam, we were against the war in vietnam, against being drafted to fight in the war in vietnam. i organized rallies. the period even before the black panther party, you have to understand, my organizers started in the protest movement in '64.

really, before that, but in 1964, i quit my engineering job on the gemini missile program. most people don't know high-tech. but i worked at the gemini missile program. a nasa project. i'm just saying, i quit that to work in the grass roots community. and i quit because dr. martin luther king is who i went to hear speak first. he was the very first one. and i said, i'm going to go hear this preacher. because i got tired of hearing the regular preachers. too much hell and damnation. so i went to hear dr. king speak about all these countries that wouldn't hire in america. i like to imitate martin luther king. at that rally, 7,000 people turned out. i was just one person, going to hear this brother. and he got on a point and he said, here in the san francisco

area, kirkpatrick bread company are not hiring any people of color. he said, all across america, wonder bread company will not hire any people of color. i say we're going to have to boycott them and we want to boycott them so consistently and profoundly that we make wonder bread wonder where their money went. that was dr. martin luther king. and that audience, 7,000 seats, and i'm one, hit the floor, applauding, et cetera. i was thoroughly and totally inspired by dr. martin luther king. and i went out in the community and quit my engineering job to work in the community. go ahead. [ laughter ] >> you sound just like dr. king. i'll just say that. >> i'm a stand-up comedian. i'm a jazz drummer. i'm a fisherman and a hunter. my father raised me a fisherman and a hunter.

my father when i was 12-year-olds bought me my first rifle. we hunted deer, game, everything. i was an expert shot with a 30-30 winchester high-powered rifle when i was 12 years old. so that crap that hughie newton supposedly taught me about a gun, i'm 12. i am 7 years older than hughie. hughie had to be 4, 5 years old and i didn't even know he existed until i was 12. when you read that crap, especially the lies that the counterintelligence program prop a gated, my point is this here. i have a lot of skills. i was raised a confidence builder from age 7. my father built our first home when i was 7 years old in texas.

i mean, just handing him lumber and watching this man drive nails, et cetera, and built our house, on saturdays. he did it for a year. he built our own home. for a year. he built our own home. so i -- when i was 15, i'm an architect. my father in california working with some other contractors, i did all the specs. i did the three-dimensional structuring. i did all the specs and materials, et cetera and so on. then put their names in it and go downtown and all those plans to pass license and inspections for building. i was raised, i had skills and everything. by the time i'm through the united states air force high performance aircraft, i aced every damn skill level they had and i was still a corporal. a corporal. most guys would be staff sergeant and master sergeant before they get to the seventh skill level. i mastered the seventh. so that was me. i'm not trying to brag. i keep saying this here.

the reason i talk like this here is because ronald reagan, he called me a hoodlum and a thug. this is my first experience in getting stereotyped by some damn politician. but a hoodlum and a thug? i was pissed. i'm no hoodlum and a thug. i worked the gemini missile program and you call me a hoodlum and a thug? you see how pissed off i get. >> let me just interrupt for one second and say this is the 50th year of the black panther party. you have every right to brag. can you give him every right to brag? so i want to come back to the stereotyping of the black panthers but i do want to ask you, stephen, when you were looking through the lens of your camera and capturing all of

these images, did you know at the time that the images that you were capturing would become these iconic signature images of the black panther party? >> you know, i started photographing when i was 20 years old, when i was a student, so really, i didn't know -- i thought i knew everything but actually, i didn't know much of anything. i knew that the panthers were important and i was just learning photography. when i took that picture of bobby, that was maybe my 14th, 15th roll of film or whatever. i hadn't really shot that much. so i was still learning. so yes, i knew they were important but i wasn't even thinking about iconic art, this or that. i was just really trying to help them make the revolution. that's what i was kind of focusing on. >> i told him, i said hey, man, look, you're taking pictures, that's good. we need pictures for our

newspaper stuff. we had very few people. i said i want you to train a couple people here. one of the ones who really took off was sister lauren williams. he trained her to be a photographer along with him. so it's like -- it's like grabbing resources, know what i mean? i worked the pottery program, i ran the youth jobs program and stuff before the party started. in fact, two youth jobs. i created a program in 1964, two years before the party started. what i'm trying to say -- go ahead. >> yeah. you know, the panthers make coalitions with all kinds of groups. bobby and i were on radio this morning and one of the people asked were you a black nationalist organization. i said so if they were a black nationalist organization, what am i doing here? you know. the fact of the matter is the panthers made coalitions with

native indian groups, with latino groups, with white groups, the young patriots in chicago. >> and liberal groups who were progressive. >> that's one of the lies the government kind of spread is that the panthers were against white people, they were doing this. the panthers had a positive program. they weren't against anyone except people who were trying to oppress them. yes, they were against them. but it had nothing to do with color. it had to do with you're trying to mess with me. >> i think that's very -- that's the reason why this book is so important. have you all seen this book? have you seen it? it's a beautiful book, okay. it's on sale tonight. >> it's on sale tonight. everyone won't be allowed to leave unless they buy one. >> take our word for it, it is a very beautiful book. it speaks to how framing of our history is very very important,

right? especially in this year being the 50th year, there's been a lot of activity around the black panthers. there's been a documentary about the black panthers, there's been a lot of articles, forums, panel discussions, beyonce paying tribute to the black panthers at the super bowl. were you at home watching the super bowl when beyonce gave the tribute? >> i wasn't. i had to hear about that. i was probably cross country speaking somewhere. i don't know. i still speak at a lot of the colleges. >> i'm going to ask this question. so over the 50 years, especially in this 50th year, how do you feel like the black panthers are framed now historically? do you feel like the panthers are framed accurately or do you feel like there's still a lot of misinformation about how -- who the panthers really were? >> real true accuracy of the black panther party, this

particular book represents some of that accuracy because the black panthers in this book, other black panthers, angela whoever and kathleen, big man albert howell and several black panthers. i do a heavy piece of commentary for this work, this book. >> this book really is an oral history in addition to being a photography book. >> i have been trying to do a film and they keep interrupting and all i'm telling you, they don't want me to tell the real story. they don't want me to tell the story. i mean, i went through a whole big problem with abc studios back here last year, 2015, and you know, ran around that time and come to find out they were trying to debunk my screenplay and have somebody else write a screen play. i said no, that don't work, brother. people wasn't in the black panther party. i know the black -- i know the black -- i know the black

panther party backwards, forwards, sideways and catty-corner. i know the black panther party mention who was in the black panthers party who did the work related to whatever, et cetera. when i interview them and talk to them to bring back up information, i says i can do the accurate, correct story. so my film would have -- my film was about -- richard m nixon, john mitchell and others who led the major attack against my organization, particularly in the year 1969. when i researched and found the watergate tape, remember anything about this history, nixon used to record all of his telephone calls and all that stuff, right? boom boom boom, right, remember that? i found it.

the voice of richard nixon, jay edgar, you got to move on the black panthers. what are you doing about this? i want you to get rid of these black panthers. john mitchell will be calling you, et cetera. the voice of richard assm. nixon, the president of the united states of america giving directive to j. edgar hoover to get rid and move on these black panthers. that year, my black panther party offices were attacked all across this country, over 20 offices all across this country. in the beginning of that year, john mitchell, united states attorney general under richard m. nixon is up on national television by the end of this year we'll be rid of these black panthers. i mean, this is a concerted effort. so when nixon was elected, he had a meeting with j. edgar hoover a week later after the election in november and the

first week or so of december is the first time that j. edgar hoover is on national television. the black panthers are a threat to the internal security of america, the black panthers are the only reason they have guns is to come into the white community and shoot and kill white people. and we are running up and down the streets and protesting with thousands of our white loving radical friends. i mean, this is the great counter intelligence program lie they propagated to stereotype us in the corner. when he did that in december, i called a retreat because my organization in the time martin luther king was killed, the day nixon was elected. before martin luther king was killed, there were 400 members up and down the coast. there were no chapters and branches.

none. i'm telling you. he was killed and young black b brothers and sisters from all over this country flooded my organization. my organization jumped from 400 members to 5,000 members and 49 chapters and branches throughout the united states of america and i went to practically every last one of those chapters. i taught them their p.e. classes. i taught them their sessions. i taught them to grassroots organize. the fact we have to do this, et cetera. i taught them how to go and network with other politicians and other people and other fr z friends as much as possible because people will attack us. the only position we can take is defensive position. we have no resources. just take defensive position. i did my architecture and quick sketch and set it up and taught the party members you have to fortify these damn offices, all the black panther operations where you are, this has got to

happen. this is why we got fortified all across the country. waits the fo it was the fortification of offices and networking with people across the united states of america from the beginning of 1969 to the end of 1969 that john mitchell said he would be getting rid of the black panther party. that last shootout, that last shootout when the fbi came to our offices, cordoned off the blocks, three blocks this way, that way, that way, that way, s.w.a.t. teams, 350 degrees, two-story building, 41st and central in east los angeles, shooting out and started shooting. now, they didn't come in saying you're under arrest, come out. they came in straight up shooting, party members was woke up with bullets flying and party members had to take them, steel bars in place over the windows, get behind fortifications and sandbags and whatever.

they would fire five minutes 360 degrees, and stop five minutes, stop 20 minutes, et cetera and so on. after five hours, i'm in jail when all this shit happens. charles comes up to the jail early in the morning in his pajamas and topcoat as we talk, they are attacking the black panther party office. i said get on the phone, go out there, call john and call everybody. he said i already called them. i said tell them i said get some kind of surrender flag out, et cetera. they did put a surrender flag out. that morning, 11:30 a.m. later, after they shot at that office for six times for five minutes a period, one reporter was three blocks down on the roof with a zoom lens on his camera and he zoomed in on the surrender flag and this is 11:30 a.m., and the news reporter says the black panthers have been trying to

surrender since early this morning and the police are ignoring, ignoring the surrender sign. that caused all those people we network with, everybody from sammy davis jr. to whoever, et cetera, the naacp, roy wilkins, i had a coalition, you know i had a coalition with roy wilkins and the naacp because roy wilkins was the key person who helped us in the early days develop a network of lawyers all across the united states of america with the national lawyers guild. people don't know this. people don't know i had a coalition with martin luther king. yes, we did have it and i got it a month before he died. everybody in the business came out to support the panthers, let the panthers surrender, including the policemans athletic league in chicago.

so this was the dynamic of what happened, the contradiction raising and they're saying we're going to get rid, in other words, they killed dr. king, they thought they cut off the head of this man, everything would die down. didn't happen. young brothers and sisters flooded into the black panther party. i got them scattered all across the country. now they want to knock us out. but i'm saying they put me on trial, they killed fred hampton, mark clark, whathave you, et cetera, we still got political prisoners. still. i haven't been able to raise the three, four, $5 million i wanted to raise so i could put in the last 10, 12 years so i could put all of our political prisoners on the innocence project. that's what i wanted to do. but i haven't been able to do it because they keep blocking me, they keep blocking me. when i had a real contract in 1992 with warner brothers

pictures, i have a $550,000 contract with warner brothers pictures at this time, what happened. that thing, we got johnson to be the director, we told him he couldn't write the script because we had to develop the script. he agreed to that. but my point is, i was on my way and something happened, it's this crap that happens, aol took over, et cetera, and they decided they wasn't going to do it after they put out all that option money. i picked up $100,000 option money. plus other party members, et cetera. so i'm just saying trying to get this story out and get the real story out, i'm still working. the best thing i got now, i'm still working, i'm dealing with people. i don't want people coming to me talking about we can do this, we can do this. i been through that before already. i been through that with three or four people talking crap and they're going to turn around and

let some black behind people write some script leaning for the fbi's lies. i could go on and on and on but you got the idea of what it is to try from me because i stuck to my principles. i stuck to my principles of our constitutional rights and organizing for them. >> brother, we appreciate you still working. we appreciate you still working. [ applause ] we appreciate your powerful story telling. one of the things i notice about many of the images in the book, you see a lot of pictures of you speaking, right. we see a lot of pictures of you engaging with the community. we see a lot of pictures of you running for office and i'm curious to know how you would define your leadership style and if you see your own leadership

style embodied in any particular leader or group of leaders today. is there anyone, is there a bobby seale in community? >> they're everywhere out there. you got young folks coming up, they just need more good information. that's what it is. young black lives matter is a great movement. it's a necessary kind of movement. you see what i mean? but more than that -- >> you see parallels? you see parallels between the black panther party and the black lives matter movement? >> parallels, it's not about parallels so much. it's about younger generation waking up and realizing that this vicious police brutality and occupation of our people and our communities in all these complex forms perpetuates a broad level of oppression.

let me explain something. congresswoman barbara lee, y'all heard of her? black panther party. bobby rush, you know bobby rush with fred hampton. congress. black panther party. those are my two shining examples. when we started the black panther party, listen to me on this, in 1995, before i actually started the black panther party, the book "black power" came out. wait a minute. now, listen to me. it was a very important book but some of the young panthers i run into talking we're going to get us black power. i said y'all ain't going to get no black power until you take political seats. what are you talking about, political seats? i said city council, county supervisor, et cetera. them the white man's seats. i said you better start making up your mind trying to make them

the black folks' seats and people of color seats. but, but. i said no, i don't want to hear that. see, my ten-point platform and program when i wrote, we wrote that program, but the last two paragraphs is the declaration of the independence of the united states of america. you got to read it very carefully to see what it says. it's like a mathematical problem. people say that's the white man's math. no, it ain't the white man's math. if you know it, it's your math. it's your knowledge. you know what i mean? one plus one equals two. the application of the quadratic formula for probability theory, i know how to do it. it's my knowledge. so when you read that, first part when in the course of human events it becomes necessary, et cetera, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but the last paragraph says when the long train of

abuses and usurpations pursues and invariably evinces a design to produce a people under absolute despotism, it's the right of the people to alter a change and provide new guards for their future security and happiness. where do we provide the new guards at? it's not just because you got a gun and you're ready to defend yourself or you got some notion you want to go out in the middle of new york. that's not the only form of guard. the key form of guard is can we get in and can we control. i played on community control concepts a lot for the basis of that. so what are we talking about here? community control. that means we need those political seats. they're the ones that make the laws. when rosa parks refused to move

to the back of the bus in the middle of the 1950s that was a state legislature and those political seats were filled with white racist minds and attitudes. they made that dumb law. all across america, 1,000 and 10,000 kind of laws are made have got to be changed. we are not going to change them until we get the majority of those seats. so when we went out to patrol the police i was trying to capture the imagination of the people. by capturing the imagination of the people, remember, i have a 14, 15 party members and we went out to patrol the police and observe the police and would we capture the imagination. cop said you have no right to observe me and hughie newton's shining moment, i pushed him to

put that together, to research those laws and make sure you would be able to explain this stuff, et cetera, then if we get arrested we get arrested, but do that, do it right. hughie says no, california state supreme court ruling states that every sitson has the right to stand and observe a police officer carrying out his duty as long as he stands a reasonable distance away. reasonable distance in that particular rule is constituted eight to ten feet. i'm standing approximately 20 feet from you and will observe you if you like it or not. some sister on the corner says go on ahead and tell it, brother. the cop -- that police officer, cop, is that gun loaded. i have a right, hughie said you have no right. he quoted something from united states supreme court versus so and so and so and so, therefore you cannot move my property from me without due process of law, step back, you cannot touch my weapon. some tall black brother over here say man, what kind of negroes is these?

it was a disciplined group. hughie said only one person talk. don't ever say anything to the police first because the law here says they can arrest you for interfering with a police officer carrying out his duty. but supreme court rulings here say if the police say something to you first, then you answer, then they cannot charge you. so hughie talked. hughie answered. told the cop where to get off at. is that gun loaded. he jacked the round up into the chamber. the other brothers with long guns, about six of them, jacked rounds up in the chamber. never pointed the weapon at the person. huh-uh. you see, when people play us, we was macho, we were bad. huh-uh. you had to be disciplined in my army. you had to do it right. see what i'm getting at? we knew the law. every law. there was one law there that said if you pointed a loaded

weapon at a person, even with no intention of shooting them, under california law at the time it constituted assault with a deadly weapon. you could actually go to prison for pointing a weapon, waving it around if it had a live round in the chamber. we knew all this. but we went there. see what i mean? >> i'm sorry to interrupt. i hate to interrupt you. with so much police violence that's taking place today all over the country, so man young black men and women, right, okay, james baldwin, with so many black men and women who are being gunned down and arrested and they're not even armed, do you think that that strategy or that tactic would work? >> i'm not asking that. i'm telling you what we did at that time. the laws have changed. i'm not telling you to use that strategy now. don't even go out there with that. the laws have changed. they are waiting on you. the fact that those right

wingers out there push laws in state legislatures all across the country on stand your ground, that's so-called patriot people can shoot you down whenever they -- see, they get away with it. see what i mean? that's what that's about. you got open carry in texas. leave that alone. leave that alone. peaceful protests. we do not need guns like we did in the beginning. remember, there was only 50 black folks duly elected to political office in 1965 all across america, from the lowly city government, part-time government to the federal. how many political seats are there you can be elected to in america? my demographic research in 1965 told me this. there are 50,000 political seats one can be elected to in the whole of the united states of america. in 1965 there were only 50 i

counted. now, tell me about it, the history here. what was i doing? i was going to capture the imagination of the people and as we captured the imagination i was going to organize a political electoral machine. that's what i was going to do. because i wanted to take over some of these political seats like city government to set an example and i was telling the other brothers, i said man, down south they got the voting rights act, got to get all them people elected. down south in my demographic search, i found 22 counties, 22 counties at the time in 1965 that had a majority of 50% or more black folks in them. if you can get the people elected. that means what, i told the young brothers. well, so we take the seats. i said the sheriff is duly elected. that means we can get a progressive brother in there and when the ku klux klan acts up, he can deputize 200 brothers and

all get shot guns and go over there and kick the ku klux klan's butt. that's power, brother. don't be jiving yourself. you have to do it this way. this is, we live in an overdeveloped, high tech, fast paced computerized social order. we have to understand that. we have to understand the value of politicians like barbara lee, and there are 90, only 90 in the house of representatives who are real progressive voting politicians who we can get our shit through. we can get our programs through, et cetera. >> so we have an election in two weeks. >> that's right. >> two weeks. >> we got to go for what we can get out of that. hillary clinton. bernie sanders was right, he got her to adopt 90% of all the points that he wanted in her program.

now, wait a minute, brother. we want -- the main thing we want right now along with all the other programs, that infrastructure bill brother obama been trying to get for the last six years, you know, it would have created 1.5 million jobs. but the climate change factor led into pipes and all this other kind of crap, we can have an infrastructure ecology climate change bill and it would be more than 1n.5 million jobs. i could be five million jobs in this country we can create. if we can take the majority of the people in that house of representatives, they are going to get the senate. they are going to get the senate. don't let us take over the house. you're talking about progressive programs, that's what's going to happen. it can happen and we need that.

you see, what the corporate money rich is doing, they are trying to break you. they are trying to kill the middle class. now the middle class, we have to get an edge on the political side of this and we need more of these young brothers and sisters even in the black lives matter et cetera to start looking from a progressive standpoint for political seats. we want to maximize political seats. we want a majority of the political seats. that's why i created the black panther party to do that. now, look what happened. by the time we got to the end of 1969, i was in the position and i was going to chapters and branches and i was telling party members as we were growing, you are going to learn to identify your council by districts, your state assembly districts, find out who the politicians are, find their paper trail, whether they are racist, liberal,

whoever, and you will also run for political office so you will try to find real progressive, black and people of color politicians. that's what we need because those are the only way we got a heavy vote. that's the way it's got to go. >> okay. all right. thank you. that's all important. that's all very important. that's very important. >> i just want to add, one little thing, that bobby taught me. you got to also look at the system and you got to look at the laws. i know a lot of people, i voted for bernie, bobby voted for bernie in the primaries but he isn't there. the united states system with the electoral college is only two choices. we can play around third party, this and that, but it's not going to make it. i remember the damage that richard nixon did. and if that other guy, i don't want to say his name, if that other guy gets -- is president

and hillary isn't president, don't think that black lives matter and the other progressive movements in this country will not be decimated in the same way that nixon decimated the panthers and that's the important reason that we have to unite behind hillary this time, because that's the choice. and then if she don't do what we do, well, we will protest her. >> we will still protest. >> but we got to stop that -- i can't even say his name. you know who i'm talking about. we got to stop him from being in the white house because you know. exactly. >> we only have time, a few more minutes left in this conversation. we want to open it up for questions to be answered. we have the microphone here. we will ask people to raise their hand and the microphone will come to you, okay? please be brief, brother. >> sure. i'm sorry. hi.

thank you, bobby and stephen, for being here today. i think one of the problems we have to address in this country is that the whole system is designed to fail when it comes to the political system because we all have, what we are discussing is the fact big money's involved in politics today. as long as big money continues to be involved in politics we will have this forced illusion we have a choice between red and blue, democrats and republicans. how do we come up with a strategy that allows us to get big business, big money out of politics that way we can have actual real leaders that can get us into this community and help us out? because as long as we continue to have big money into politics we are not going to get anywhere in this country. >> that's true. i will start and bobby can answer. you know, we need to overturn citizens united. that requires again that a president appoint progressive people to the supreme court. again, this choice that we have this time, one candidate is going to put kkk type people on the supreme court and the other

candidate's going to put better people and so the start is to get rid of citizens united and get some public funding. there's a lot of other things that need to be done. but that's the start. if that doesn't happen, we can't even start. >> bobby, can you address that really quickly? >> the dark money that the koch brothers and the koch brothers billionaire club, understand that, you have got a few over here who are billionaires who will donate and give money to all kinds of progressive programs. george soros is one. he's worth $10 billion. you can get some out of the gates people, et cetera and so on. that's money over here on the left side. so we need those resources here on the left side as it relates to the progressive programs we want, including this infrastructure bill, including the supreme court nominee, including making tuition free,

including overhauling the health program, et cetera and so on, and trying to move towards universal health care. we can go on and on and on and on and on. these are the things that's got to happen. big money is there. we got to block them. now, hillary did say one thing. these guys with the big money, they got their billions of dollars in offshore banking accounts where they don't have to pay no taxes. what these guys are doing, you think you're going to continue to go over and make -- and take jobs out of the town, you are going to have to come back here and put some jobs here or we're going to jack you up in terms of whatever trade deal that's got to go down. i'm just saying, it's a complex thing. but we have to have that general direction and understanding that's got to happen. we the masses, black lives movement, all of us, pastors, et

cetera, maxine waters and congresswoman barbara lee, they left with us. we just don't have enough of them. >> next question. i would like to have a sister ask a question if possible. okay. >> hi. so i just wanted to know, first of all, thank you so much. it's a pleasure. right here. hi. thank you so much. it's a pleasure. i wanted to know, so how were y'all able to overcome and mobilize so successfully for such a long time despite that initial resistance amongst our people, amongst black people? how did you do it, because i look at now today, you see with the whole colin kaepernick situation, him taking a knee, there were a lot of black people that supported him but you had athletes that were black in the nfl that were highly against him that are retired and then some

that are still playing. so how did you all successfully make that happen with so much going on at that time? >> you mean in my day? >> yes, sir. >> one of the things that the panthers did is they had community programs. they actually served the people. they were doing things, and that's one thing which i hope black lives matter and some of the groups will start doing, because protest is great but it isn't enough to build a movement. the panthers did that. >> the free breakfast for children program that i created and started off and told every black panther party office they had to settle for free breakfast program, immediately after that i said we have to set up free preventive medical health clinics, with your clinics you have to have a sickle cell anemia testing program in the country. understand something. when they attacked us in 1969, all across the country, it

wasn't about the few little old guns we had to defend ourselves. you know they had triple quadruple overkill weapon. see what i mean? they had the occupation. it was the free breakfast for children program. listen to me, brothers. when we started that program really in september of 1968, it spread like wildfire across the country and it spread beyond, beyond the black panther party to communities, et cetera. okay? suddenly in that beginning period when j. edgar hoover announced we were a threat to the internal security of america, all this kind of stuff, what were they looking at? you read the book "black against the empire." you will find the real memo j.

edgar hoover sent out to all 43 district offices of the fbi throughout the united states of america, that all fbi agents et cetera, et cetera, must move in ways to discredit and to disown -- wait a minute -- and stop the breakfast for children program. it's written in there, black panther party's breakfast for children program. this is the document i'm talking about. and he wants them to make sure no moderate black people support this breakfast program and he wanted to make sure no white liberals support this breakfast program. don't you get it? the polls that came out in the beginning of 1969 said what? now it has evolved to a point that 90% of the black community now supports the black panther party because they understand it. with the breakfast program and the free health clinic programs, that's what was happening. it was the programs.

>> the brilliance of the programs is that it highlighted the contradiction. children were going to school hungry in this country where we waste so much and we throw food away and we have so much money, and children were going to school hungry. secondly, it was the solution. just feed the kids. >> let me show you what the success of the program, you got to understand this. so '66 a few more blacks got elected, that november year, in '66. what happened by 1969, in california particularly, willie brown was on the ways and means committee, california state legislature, moved with miller and some others, got ahold of a couple chicano guys and they wrote a bill for free breakfast and free lunch program -- let me

finish -- free breakfast and free lunch programs for all schools in the state of california, listen to this, set the bill to ronald reagan, the right wing republican governor. he vetoes $4 million of the idea. they sent it back to the state assembly and the state assembly sent it through the senate and bring it back to them and then they turn around and overrode his $4 million deduction and put the whole damn $5 million in and in the next year and a half, 28 state legislatures did something similar with the free breakfast. now wait a minute. that's just one program. but it gives you the example that if you have all other kinds of programs that you can unite the people around in the community, therefore you're doing what? we always had voter registration going on. you can unite the people's electoral power. you see what i'm getting at? so my party members, you, y'all,

all y'all, y'all sitting out here, i commend you and i always have, i commend you in all my speaking speaking engagements. you all became some of the best grassroots community organizers in the world. you do this. y'all did that. winston salem came up with the free ambulance program. sister jones run the boston, massachusetts chapter, she came up with the free pharmacy program. another brother in richmond, virginia came up with the free pest control program. so on and so on and so on. that developed in some 25, 30 programs of one kind or another in the communities and people relate to tangible real stuff. you see. so overcome instead of standing up on the stoop and saying and i will see to it. we put the real damn program up and demonstrated the damn problem. you see what i mean? >> thank you very much.

i want to get to another question. our time is quickly running out. i want to get as many questions as peopossible. >> mr. seale, in these troubled times, what's left of the black panther party? what's the black panther party's lega legacy? thank you. >> well, we have a lot of young people out here. i look at the black lives movement and climate change organizi organizing, on these left organizational efforts, as the successors of us in the black panther party. i mean, we are still here. we give good advice, et cetera. we support various movements and programs and efforts, you know, et cetera. so you say what's left. a lot of us have died of natural

causes. you know what i mean? i'm 80 years old. but i stand straight. [ applause ] it's a thing with me. i didn't want to be like this here all the time. you see what i mean? just by the time i got my mind together, my ass started falling apart. my point is i wanted to stand straight. you see what i mean? stand up and boom, boom, boom, be able to talk. a long time ago i quit drinking alcohol, i stopped smoking, i did a whole lot of things. you know what i mean? trying to raise money just to live. i got one of my sons through college or through medical school, he's a doctor. i'm just saying, we are here and i'm going to do my films hopefully people are going to help me and support this and i'm not going to have people running

over the project. i'm going to do the real program so people can understand that history because it was human involvement history. young brothers and sisters and people and a lot of our left radical friends and all our latino brothers and native american brothers and sisters, we had coalitions. we crossed all racial and ethnic lines. know what i mean? we judge by the content of the character, not the color of skin. see what i mean? that's very very important. that's very very important. i'm going to say it again. we are not even living in the '60s. we live in an overdeveloped high pace fast teched computerized technological social order. it is controlled largely as we know, as has been advocated and

pointed out, 99% of the wealth is controlled by what? i mean, a few billionaires. we got to change that dynamic. it's got to go the other way around. we got to understand where we are, what level we are, what we can do, and we have to be involved politically on a consistent basis. >> brother seale, i would like to get to this question over here. >> i just wanted to briefly, to me, the legacy of the panthers is number one, that you can stand up and you can organize but intelligently and in a disciplined way. that's a general legacy. specific legacy, president obama, that's a specific legacy of the panthers. the fact that sickle cell anemia is recognized and people are treating it. women's rights, gay rights, you

know, black studies courses and ethnic studies courses all over the country. even obamacare. the idea of free medical clinics, et cetera. kids get fed in school now. et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. that's legacy. we just need to take it further. >> yes, sir. >> sir, my question is, you talked about how the tactics you all used won't work anymore because the laws have changed but what lessons can we take from your work so that all the people here, individual people, can work to fulfill the goals that you all tried to achieve? >> to fulfill them. one of the things i tried to do, i always tried to make sure my ideas, my beliefs, my understanding, i research and i read a lot. make sure my ideas, beliefs and understanding corresponded correctly to reality. i had an aunt zelma, my mother

was named thelma, they were identical twins, and look and shape and stature, but they were two different personalities. aunt zelma is a die-hard christian. when i run around 10, 12, 11, about 12 years old, i was telling some other kids in the back room, no, it ain't, no, it ain't, the earth spin on its own axis at a thousand miles an hour, i'm talking to my friends, and then, and then the earth take a 600 million mile trip all the way around the sun every 365 days, and then, and then the earth, the earth and all the planets is moving in the galaxy at 20 miles a second. aunt zelma heard that and come in there boys, grabbed my ear, you're going straight to hell

with that science mess in your head, what's the matter with you, boy? earth ain't round, earth is flat, boy. ain't you got no better sense. this woman thought the earth was flat. now, she just didn't know any better. but it was six months later we all happened to be over to playland in the pacific ocean, the beach, et cetera. she came all the way, she was over there with her boyfriend. we went there with some other folks. she came in and got me, come here, bobby, grabbed me by the arm and walked me out there and started pointing out the ocean. you see out there, boy, look out there, bobby, what you see, what you see? i'm telling her the ocean. don't you see, boy, flat, flat, flat, flat, as far as i can see. boy, you're going straight to hell. i said okay, i'm going straight to hell. i'm like galileo historically.

you are not the center of the earth. the religious group was saying we are going to burn you. he said okay, believe what you want to believe. i said all that to say you got to make sure your ideas, your beliefs and your understandings as much as possible correspond correctly to reality. it helps you organize better. it helps you analyze. it helps you look for the real facts. when you got these politicians telling all this crap and trump telling all this and that, just know the facts and know the understanding of it. learn and keep -- hitch your wagon, get your jobs, i want you if you can make $10 million a year or $50 million a year, fine. my point is hitch your wagon to the human liberation struggle on one level or another. >> this will be our last question. this will be your last question. >> i would like to work with

you, bobby seale, from one panther to another. my name is davy white. i'm a member of the black panther political party organized in new york city in july of 1966. >> he said he was a panther. >> these facts -- >> july, october, 19 -- >> no. july. my name is david white. original black panther. i just wanted to say i'm very happy to meet you, because after all these years after hughie and all y'all, unbeknown to you there was another black panther party. i congratulate you and all the brothers that came behind us and keep on keeping on, my brother.

>> thank you. >> i think that we all have been blessed and touched by this conversation today. have we not? have we not been touched and blessed? it was an honor for me to have a front row seat to this dialogue. we want you to go out and buy a copy of the book. >> fu waif you want to get out here. i told you. >> thank you for coming. >> i want to confirm, stephen and mr. seale, will you all be signing the book for the people? so if you purchase the book today, they will also be signing in the lobby. thank you for joining us.