to keep up with the latest history news. afterwards, a journalist on ukraine's past and present amid regional conflict as told through the stories of the ukrainian people in her book blacks square, adventures in post-soviet ukraine. she is interviewed by alexander cooley, columbia university and director of the institute. >> when your system of government, when you state disappears or is radically reformulated, that often leaves a space of chaos. for ordinary people, especially people who do not have a lot of money, people who are in provincial areas, that can lead to an unbelievable amount of people and stress in their own lives. >> tonight at 9:00 eastern on book tv. go online for the complete

schedule. >> american history tv, as the centennial of america's april 1917 entry into world war i approaches, lee pollock, winston churchill historian, talks about the british statesman's military career. he discusses his decision to leave parliament and joined the british army at the commanding officer. this presentation was part of a two-day symposium hosted by the national world war i museum and memorial in kansas city, missouri. >> lee pollock is the executive director and trustee of the international churchill society. as a winston churchill expert, he has spoken about the extraordinary life and times of the late prime minister to audience throughout the united states, canada, and britain. his presentation include secrets of leadership, the winston that

saved the world, and the holocaust and the making of the middle east. forward to his presentation with our young friends group over whiskey and cigars. if you are not a member of our young friends group, you should consider that. this morning, this is about churchill's political transformation and how it shaped the kind of leader he would become. please welcome lee pollock. [applause] >> laura, as one cubs fan to another, thank you for that nice introduction. hold on just one second. i think someone picked up my

notes from here. [laughter] hold on a second. >> [inaudible] >> if anyone -- there we go. like winston churchill, i have spent the best part of my life preparing my extemporaneous remarks. i am delighted to be back here at the national world war i museum. this is my fifth visit and it just gets better and better. years from now, you will celebrate the 100th anniversary of your collection. i trust you will have a blowout party. winston churchill is planning to attend and he is looking for a lot of champagne. i have been to a number of great history museums around the world and this one is stupendous.

winston churchill manages to pop up almost everywhere in the first half of the 20th century and this is the third time he has done that here in kansas city, a place which incidentally, he never managed to visit. two years ago, we brought a captivating speaker to the museum who talked to you about winston churchill, the rise of german power, and the outbreak of the first world war. last year, professor chris bell gave a fascinating presentation entitled "churchill and the dardanelles." he was kind enough to add a subtitle, it was not all churchill's fault. [laughter] by the way, chris will be

publishing a full-length book on this subject in may. it will be well worth reading. i would like to begin this account of winston churchill and the first world war at the end, not the beginning, and on a personal note. at the 11th hour on the 11th day in the 11th month of 1918, the guns of war fell silent across europe. the greatest conflict the world had ever known was over, leaving 20 million dead in its wake. on that morning, a 12-year-old boy was playing in the street near his home in the middle class neighborhood of berlin. unlike the next world war, berlin had not been pulverized by aerial bombardment. its great monuments, palaces, homes and neighborhoods were intact. germany had not been conquered and on the western front, its army still stood on allied soil.

in that fact lay the seeds of a horrible myth, the step in the back, which would hot german politics. the 12-year-old had not seen his father, serving in belgium, for three years. he raced home to his mother in tears crying as loud as he could the terrible news. the war is lost, the war is lost. that boy was my father and two decades later, his enemy was his homeland. through the grace of britain, he could leave germany as a refugee and find his freedom. on that same day, 500 miles away in london, a different scene unfolded as prime minister david lloyd george presided over a celebratory meeting of his cabinet. of the ministers who had led britain to war, only two

ministers sat around the table to celebrate the victory. one was the 55-year-old prime minister himself, known as the welsh wizard. he had begun the war as chancellor of exchequer. in december of 1916, and he will -- he became the prime minister. much of the blame for the stalemate and slaughter of the first years of the war had been laid on his predecessor. many historians now think unfairly. with victory last in hand, lloyd george was a national hero. the other man at the table from that first group of ministers was winston leonard churchill, age 43. the minister of munitions. if you've had been asleep the previous four years and happened upon that meeting, you might've assumed churchill had served in office the entire time starting as first lord of the admiralty in 1914 and ending as minister of munitions. nothing could be further from

the truth and the story of winston churchill and the first world war, especially in 1916, is one of rise and fall, dramatic vicissitudes, hope and glory. success, failure and redemption. it set the stage for the role of a lifetime that he was destined to play. winston churchill was born here in november 1874. perhaps more than any british or american leader at the time, he was destined to be a soldier and a man of war. it was in his blood and that was because of his ancestor, this man, john churchill, who along with wellington, stands among one of the greatest military figures in british history. in 1704, in alliance with

pressure and the netherlands, he defeated the continental tyrant of his day, louis xiv of france and saved europe from the domination of a single power. two centuries later, winston churchill wrote a biography. he followed his ancestor's example, this time in a life or death struggle with germany and a new tyrant, adolf hitler. while his father had not served in the army or neighbor, his son entered the military academy in 1893. while today that sounds like destiny, the fact was that young winston was an indifferent student, excelling in some subjects but faring poorly in others. as he put it, i am always ready to learn but i do not always like being taught. he was not a good candidate for oxford or cambridge.

he failed the entrance exam twice before sneaking in. the infantry was considered the more prestigious and rigorous branch of the army but he settled for the dashing cavalry. he became an excellent horseman. he played, with vigor until he was 62 years old. in the years after sandhurst, churchill pursued action and adventure in british colonial wars around the world as a serving officer and as a journalist and war correspondent. always in the corner of his eye was a career in politics, and he hungered for fame on the battlefield and the adulation of what we would call today a celebrity journalist. on his 21st birthday, and bedded with spanish forces during the cuban rebellion, he had his first experience in actual battle. while not a target himself, he was exposed to real combat and bullets flew just over his head.

he later quipped, there was nothing so exhilarating in life as to be shot at without result. this is a fine recent book about churchill's time in cuba. winston churchill found more action and adventure in far-flung parts of the empire. stationed in india in 1897, he participated in a punitive expedition against tribesmen. some descendents are still fighting the british and the americans. today, they are called the taliban. the product of that expedition was churchill's first book which was dedicated to his commanding officer, a man with the improbable but wonderfully dickensian name major general sir benjamin blood. in 1898, churchill took part in

another expedition, this time to wipe out a sudanese religious leader whose forces has slaughtered a general, his men, and 4000 civilians in the siege of khartoum. on september 2, 1898, churchill took part in one of the last cavalry charges of the british empire and the combat was sick and furious. this became a book, an account that was published in 1899. the original has been out of print for over a century. i am pleased to say under our sponsorship, a definitive and fully annotated new edition will be published next year. it will truly be a collectors item. war in, during the boers south africa, churchill found the true thing he had been seeking. riding on an armored train, he

was captured, escaped a month later. he made his way to safety in mozambique after nine days on the run. he remained in south africa for six more months, taking part in several actions. he finally returned to england in july of 1900. having earlier failed in his first attempt, he was elected to parliament two weeks later. that was the beginning of an illustrious political career. it only ended when he retired from parliament 54 years later. his books kept on coming. there is a wonderful new book by your local kansas citian about churchill's time in south africa. it is entitled hero of the empire. churchill's ascent in politics was breathtakingly rapid. after switching from the conservative to the liberal party, he entered the cabinet as president of the board of trade

in 1908. two years later, he became home secretary. in 1911, he was the first lord of the admiralty, the civilian had of the royal navy. with the naval arms race underway with germany and the prospect of a continental land for growing, churchill was a breath of fresh air. he switched shipped from coal to oil and started work on super dreadnoughts. he also liked his medals. all of this change and energy did not sit well with some of the top brass. accused of destroying the traditions of the royal navy, churchill replied, traditions, what traditions? rum, sodomy, and the lash.

he later denied having said that, but added that he wish he had. [laughter] he was already thinking strategically and prophetically about the coming war. he told the committee of imperial defense to expect a powerful german invasion of belgium and france that might come close to overwhelming its defenders. until a british expeditionary force could help hold the line. as the first month of the war progressed, little went as expected. both sides settled into brutal trench warfare. no one's boys were coming home by christmas. while churchill had prepared the royal navy well, the anticipated climactic engagement with the german high seas fleet was deferred and the enemy ships stayed at their bases. instead, german submarines took a toll on merchant shipping. winston churchill was a man of action and he longed for a decisive stroke that would

change the balance of power and break the stalemate. he thought that chewing barbed wire on the western front was no path to victory. while it was not just his idea, at the beginning of 1915 he enthusiastically supported a campaign against germany's ally, the turkish ottoman empire, that would force the dardanelles and continue on to istanbul. a successful campaign by britain and france with support from russia through the suez canal and bring undecided baltic states into the war. it all went terribly wrong. and very quickly. the naval assault that began on february 19 failed and the ground invasion sputtered. casualties soared. by the time it was over a year later, britain had lost 73,000 dead and wounded. australia and new zealand,

36,000. an enormous number for two small outposts of the empire. the turks lost over 250,000 but inflicted a humiliating and costly defeat of the british empire. these are some of the french soldiers landing at gallipoli and their turkish opponents. they were not christians, they were not educated, but they were great fighters. as the disaster unfolded, the increasingly erratic first sea said dam the dardanelles, they will be our grave. churchill maintained the campaign was justified and had a reasonable chance of success. it was clear he was to pay a heavy political price. his devoted wife later told his biographer, he thought he was finished. i thought he would die of grief.

may brought churchill's downfall. the liberal prime minister wove a coalition with conservatives. many of whose members still deeply distrusted churchill as a turncoat for having crossed the aisle in 1904. that plus the ongoing failure in turkey doomed the first lord. on may 17, he broke the news of the new government to churchill, asking, what are we to do for you? the answer was to make him chancellor of the duchy of lancaster, a cabinet position but one with no responsibility or power. churchill's cousin called it a bone on which there is little meat. churchill took the job. he lasted exactly six months. for the rest of 1915, winston

churchill stewed and brooded. he said the black dog of depression stock tim. he took up painting, which became a famous and lifelong pastime. as guilt haunted him, he told his friend, there is more blood than paint upon these hands. he sat for a powerful portrait. when he later saw it, he said it is not the picture of a man, it is the picture of a man's soul. go see this in the national portrait gallery in london. looking for redemption, churchill asked to go consult with local commanders. the trip never happened. in anticipation of it, he wrote a moving letter to be given to clementine in the event of his death. the last words are especially moving. "if there is anywhere else, i

shall be on the lookout for you. meanwhile, look forward, feel free, rejoice in life, cherish the children, guard my memory. god bless you and goodbye -- winston." he sent his letter of resignation saying, i'm an officer and i place myself unreservedly at the disposal of the military authority observing that my regimen is in france. he maintained a seat in parliament and made a farewell speech in the house of commons three days later criticizing his opponent. it was not especially well received. on the broader future of the war, he was positive. there is no reason to be discouraged about the progress of the war. we are passing through a bad time. it will probably be worse before it is better.

it will be better if we only endure and persevere, i have no doubt. on the morning of november 15, 1915, winston churchill, having reentered the army, crossed the english channel. he called himself the escaped scapegoat. while churchill was now a full-time soldier, he was no ordinary major. the night of his arrival in france, he dined with sir john french, the commander of the british expeditionary force. he accepted french's offer to lead a brigade. ironically, the government's competence in french himself was and hew at -- low ebb, was replaced in just a month by a new commander. churchill's enthusiasm for command was obvious. it had been many years since he had served at the combat level. on-the-job training was clearly

required. he was tasked to the second battalion of the grenadier guard and moved to the french is of northern france. churchill might've been keen but his reception was tepid. the battalion commander told him, you're coming was not a matter in which we were given any choice. he reported to clementine in a letter. he noted that horrendous conditions of the trenches, strewn with garbage. he reported rats danced about to the unceasing accompaniment of rifle fire and machine guns. worrying and -- then unless worrying and whining of dogs. despite this, churchill expected his creature comforts and asked her to send him a pair of waiting boots, a sheepskin sleeping bag, and assorted foodstuff. including sardines, chocolate,

and peach brandy. i wonder if he was going to have those all in a single meal. winston churchill was a quick study and soon understood the construction of trenches, how to supply and maintain forward positions, and how to command a battalion under the strains of war. while the battalion was not under full attack, danger was not far away. on november 26, churchill was called away to a meeting. he walked the three miles to the point where a staff car was supposed to pick them up. the car never appeared and churchill slogged back to the trenches. there, he learned a german shell had scored a direct hit leaving the man he had left behind. he wrote to clementine, a hand

had been stretched out to move me in the nick of time. churchill had anticipated his brigade command by the beginning of december but politics in london frustrated his expectations, especially after french was replaced by haig. he only offered churchill and battalion. that was a quarter of the number of men churchill expected. on new year's, 1916, he was promoted to lieutenant colonel, an infantry regiment for the long history dating back to 1678. it was an especially appropriate choice. scottish -- turtles constituency since 1908 had been in scotland. the unit churchill took over was worn and battered after sustaining heavy casualties.

it was understrengthed and the loss of officers meant the remainder were young and inexperienced. the men regarded churchill as a political payment and his reception was not helped when he arrived with former personal supplies and was officially allowed. this was churchill's private bathtub complete with a boiler for heating water. [laughter] that was a luxury denied to enlisted men. it would not have surprised his friends in england, who knew he would sometimes take two or three baths a day. that habit continued all his life. some of his greatest speeches were dictated to a secretary while soaking in a deep tub at number 10 downing street. churchill's initial attempt at commands were wobbly and he did not endear himself to his new

men when he told them, i am now your commanding officer. those who support me, i will look after. those who go against me, i will break. churchill quickly proved his worth as a capable officer who genuinely cared about his men. he enhanced their training and weapons, encouraged his superiors to replenish the battalion's depleted ranks and secured them new helmets and better rations. he organized football matches and other diversions, including mule races and pillow fights. he practiced what he preached. he learned how to throw a grenade, operate a machine gun, and colin artillery support to reply in kind to german shelling. churchill was a benevolent commander, forgiving of lesser infractions by men who had been

bloodied a few months before. he was criticized by his brigade commander for his lack of enforcing discipline. three weeks after his arrival, the unit returned to the front trenches, covering over 1000 yards near a belgian village. it was quickly called plug street. it was a no man's land of death and destruction. churchill did not bunk in the trenches but his headquarters were 500 yards behind. in the trenches, german artillery bombardment was consistent. there were even rumors, unfounded, that the germans knew churchill's position and directed their fire accordingly. german cartoons satirized him accordingly.

for the next three months, the battalion rotated every six days from the frontline to support trenches and then to the reserve. three times a day, churchill walked the length of the line taking two hours to wait through the mud. he endured enemy bombardment in a very cold belgian winter. his courage was exemplary and when his men flinched at the sound of enemy fire, his response was, it is no damn use ducking. the bullet has gone a long way past you by now. his fellow officers thought him either peerless or foolhardy. at night, churchill sometimes ventured into no man's land. on one such visit, german machine gun fire forced him and his companions to dive for cover. a bright light followed them and

churchill snapped, put out that bloody light. he sheepishly realized he had been sitting on his own flashlight. [laughter] there was plenty of danger. on february 10, while churchill watched from a reserve position, german fire wrecked a picturesque village. heavy fire forced him to give up his headquarters and when he returned, he found his office had been demolished. on march 26, a shell landed 20 yards from where he stood. most frighteningly, early in february, the german's direct -- germans scored a direct hit on his command post and a piece of shrapnel wrapped into the flashlight he was carrying. he had the nose of the shell turned into a souvenir and shipped home.

despite the pressures of command, he found time to indulge his growing passion for painting which he had taken up with the encouragement of his sister-in-law. the front provided good subjects. this image, for example. plug street under fire. and another. churchill was also a subject for other painters. the noted artist and churchill's friend added this one. when churchill arrived at plug street, the german army was just 10 miles away in a french village. it's numbers included a 27-year-old corporal in the 16th the very and regiment who had enlisted at the outbreak of war in 1914. unlike churchill, that soldier was a loner, aloof from his

comrades and unwilling to join in their drinking. he would accompany them on the train to lilles, that unless there was a concert to see, he ored around the city streets filled in the surroundings in his sketchbook, for he also was an amateur artist. almost 10 years before in his native austria, he aspired to a professional career but had been twice rejected by the vienna academy. existencet a meager painting city scenes. that man drifted to munich, and the war saved him. he later wrote and give him a -- it gave him a purpose in life. here is a sample of his art, a sketch of the village scene. you may have your own opinion, but i think it is stilted, unemotional and colorless, product of a persona whose life would be increasingly devoid of humanity. winston churchill was world-famous. the german, unknown.

17 years later, he would be absolute ruler of his country. his name was adolf hitler. if winston churchill could have seen into the future he would have directed the heaviest british fire on that bavarian regiment. perhaps a direct hit would have saved the 15 million people who would have perished in the next world war, and that is all the screen time that hitler gets. as the war went on in 1916, winston churchill pondered his political future if he had one. in march, he took two weeks to give a speech that he thought would be important in the house of commons. while some points were well-received, he disastrously had inexplicably demanded the

return of jackie fisher to the admiralty. the suggestion was ridiculed and his prospects for a quick comeback were dashed. his days on the front were numbered, and he remained determined to return to parliament where he thought he could do more good than in the mud of the trenches. on his return to flanders, he was reviewed for undue leniency with his men. annoyed by the accusations, he refuted it by showing disciplinary problems had dropped under his leadership. events brought an end to his active duty. a possible promotion to command a brigade failed to appear, and at the end of april, churchill learned that the depleted sixth battalion would be consolidated with the seventh and command the given to another, more senior colonel, rather than to him. he requested he be relieved to be allowed to "attend to my

parliamentary and public duties which have become more urgent. leave did noto burden his conscience. he wrote -- i shall have served for five months at the front, always in the front lines. certainly without discredit. discharging arduous and difficult duties to the satisfaction of my superiors and the advantage of my officers and men. while churchill's battalion did not engage in any offensive or major german attacks in his 100 days of command, there was a steady stream of casualties. the 700 man unit lost 15 dead and 123 wounded during that time, a casualty rate of almost 20%. on may 6, churchill give a farewell luncheon for his officers, and the next day, the entire battalion went for

inspection before their commander, who traveled 100 kilometers to the channel and a boat home. the verdict on churchill tenure was clear, and said -- stood in powerful contrast to the skepticism that had greeted his arrival two months earlier. one of his colleagues, this captain, later wrote, i am firmly convinced that no more popular officer ever commanded troops. as a soldier he was hard-working, persevering, and thorough. he loved soldiering. lay very near his heart. we came to realize it firsthand, his transcendent ability. it continued. churchill left behind men who will always be partisans and admirers and were proud of having served in the great war under the leadership of one who is beyond question a great man. on may 16, churchill's former -- formally relinquished the rank

and returned as a major in the yeomantry. while his service at the front was short, i would argue it had a powerful impact for two reasons. it was the longest period of time in which he lived in close proximity to ordinary people. churchill was a child of privilege, and frankly coddled by his family and friends. those few months at the front surely brought him a deeper understanding both conscious and subconscious of the hopes and fears, needs and wants, and the day to day lives of the people of britain. second, it was his first experience in modern war. he had fought of course before, but rather than being part of a military command, he had been a war correspondent as much as a soldier.

the trenches were different, and the mechanized industrial mass warfare of 1914 to 1918 was unlike anything he had previously experienced. he now understood that the war of the 20th century was very different from those of the 19th. while his relations with the officers he commanded in the next war were not always smooth, he sometimes meddled, interfered, and micromanaged, i think he became a better military leader because of this experience. after his return to london, churchill spoke actively in parliament and looked for a new path to power. he continued to promote new technology especially the tank which was used in force the following year. he also stood up for the men he had met in the trenches, asking for meaningful declarations for ordinary soldiers. he now understood them and noted in a july commons debate, i do not believe the people in this

country have any comprehension of what the men in the trenches and those who are engaged in battle are doing or what they are suffering. but old ghosts still haunted him. in an early debate after his return, he was interrupted by an irish nationalist mp who cried out what about the dardanelles? it was a refrain churchill heard for many years after. later in the year, churchill was asked if he was considering a return to active duty. his reply was measured. his time there he said was a costly excursion. had he remained at lancaster instead, and shot my mouth and drawn my salary, i should today be one of the principal personages in the direction of affairs. but that was wishful thinking on his part. churchill hoped that andrew bonner and lloyd george would

replace asquith that summer and he might regain the admiralty or moved to the administration. -- the air ministry. but after the lord kitchener died, he was left out again. he spent most of his time preparing defensive action for the dardanelles commission which held its first hearings in august. in december, the government finally fell and was replaced by lloyd george led coalition. lloyd george considered including churchill, but when he asked the tory leader bonar law, is churchill more dangerous for you or against, the response was i would rather have him against us anytime. winston churchill was simply not regarded as a trustworthy colleague. when churchill celebrated new year at blenheim palace, he knew his return to power was delayed, as he wrote to jackie fisher,

our common enemies are all-powerful today, and friendship counts less for nothing. i am simply existing. ultimately these prospects turned. the dardanelles report that in -- released in march of 1917 and ed him ofm -- absolv the full blame of the failed expedition. there was plenty of blame to go around. in may, a further thought appeared, and churchill was sent across the channel to the a's with french force -- to liaise with french forces. but surprisingly, he was a -- not surprisingly, he was a vigorous minister and spent considerable time in france and flanders meeting both french and british commanders to ascertain their armament needs. and in january 19, he visited his old position. he wrote everything has been

torn to pieces and the shelling remains at all time. the british line has only moved forward about a mile, and all of my old farms are mere heaps of brick and smoldering sandbags. when the armistice finally came, he focused on reconstruction, but he wondered about the future. years later, he recalled thinking of the time, is this the end? is it to be merely a chapter in a cruel and senseless story? with our children bleed and gas again in foreign lands, or will there be new reconciliation? churchill went on to serve multiple offices in the 1920's, the air ministry, secretary of state for war, then his father's old position, chancellor of the exchequer. this is churchill in 1925 drawn

by john singer shargh and. -- john singer sargent. the next decade from 1929 to 1939 became his wilderness years. he sounded a cluttering -- clarion call against nazi germany and the proposal of the armament. and dramatically in 1939, he returned to the admiralty, the very office he had held almost 25 years before. some of the same maps were hanging on the walls. it was said that a signal went out to british ships around the world, winston is back. let me end with one more anecdote about the amazing life of winston churchill. at 6:00 p.m. on may 10, 1940, churchill was summoned to buckingham palace and received the commission of king george the sixth to form a new government and serve as prime minister. he had at last reached what is -- disraeli called the greasy

pole of politics at the top. ironically churchill and the king did not know each other very well, and the monarch would have preferred the former -- foreign secretary, lord halifax, for the job. the new prime minister then returned home accompanied by his bodyguard, walter thompson. the car was unusually quiet, and thompson attempted to break the silence by congratulating his boss, but noting the great challenge that faced the new leader added, i only wish it had come to you in better times. i hope it is not too late. churchill brooded for a moment and said, god alone knows how great it is. i hope it is not too late. i am very much afraid that it is, but i can only do my best. but by the time churchill slept at 3:00 in the morning, his mood had lightened considerably. he later wrote in one of the

most famous passages of his war memoirs, i was conscious of a -- of a profound sense of relief, for at last i had the authority to give direction over the whole scene. i felt as though i was walking this destiny, and that all my past life had been but a preparation for this hour and for this trial. i was sure i would not fail. fortunately for the world, winston churchill did not fail. one reason for that was the lessons he learned in 1916 from parliament. thank you. [applause] >> we would welcome your questions. at either microphone. >> we will take questions about

churchill and others. there are by the way some excellent books about this time period. a few have come out recently, one is called churchill in the trenches. and the other man i mentioned in my talk wrote a full book in the 1920's. it has been republished with a foreword by his grandson. there are great books about churchill as a military leader. >> this is less of a question , more of a statement. i think it is odd, i don't believe the british navy has ever named a ship after winston churchill, but the american navy has named two. lee pollack: i have been on the uss winston churchill, which is a missile destroyer. i do not believe there is a

winston churchill on anything except the new five pound note. the royal navy is not what it used to be. it has no aircraft carriers but is building one. fewerre are quite a few royal navy ships. there is that queen elizabeth and the prince of wales. lee pollack: this is something churchill tried to reconcile. the uss winston churchill is a fine ship. interestingly, there is a full-time royal navy officer stationed on that ship that rotates through. it is the only u.s. navy ship with a foreign officer on it. -- permanently stationed on it. it is based down in norfolk. the men are very proud to carry churchill's name. >> winston churchill's mother was an american, and he had a

strong relationship and rapport with the americans in the second world war. was there any sign or opinion or anything expressed by churchill with regard to america and the first world war? lee pollack: when he was minister of munitions, he was in liaison with americans so much, the munitions he could get were coming from the u.s. there was a famous incident at a dinner in london in 1918, franklin roosevelt, then undersecretary of the navy, came to visit. he had a conversation with churchill. fast forward 20 years later, they meet in 1941 at the atlantic charter conference. apparently at the time for a few days before when the subject of churchill came up, theodore roosevelt had met churchill and actually did not like him. franklin roosevelt wrote to joe

kennedy when kennedy was the ambassador in london, i have never liked winston churchill. i met him at a dinner in london in 1918, and he acted like a stinker. the irony was when they finally met on board one of the ships off of newfoundland, churchill said to roosevelt, we have finally met. he had forgotten completely he met roosevelt in 1918. churchill was a world-famous person and roosevelt was an up-and-coming junior member of the government, and the next four years, the relationship changed. churchill was proud of his american mother and ancestry. he famously spoke to congress december 20 6, 1941, when he arrived in washington after pearl harbor, and his line was, if my father had been american and my mother british instead of the other way around, i might have gotten here on my own. so in future life, he was asked by people on the train that

brought him to missouri with harry truman in 1946, he mentioned if he was born again, there was one country he would like to be a citizen of. he said what is that, he said united states where a man has unlimited potential. i'm doing a talk in a few months with the title winston churchill american hero. he was more of a hero to us for various reasons that he actually is in britain. >> your last question will come from this side. >> thank you very much for your enlightening conversation on the best person in the last century. did so much in his early years was in cuba, india and south africa, throwing himself in the way of harm to sort of gain adventure and live up to his potential. at the period of the black dog, the demoralizing humiliation yet -- he had to endure, i always

that by going to the scotch fusiliers, there was something about going to your roots. i always thought there was something suicidal about that as well, like if i survive this, fine. i would sort of regain my prestige. but if i take a bullet, i am fine with that. you think there is anything to that? lee pollack: i think there is a little element of that. the whole question of his mental state. you talk about the black dog of depression, which sounds ominous today but was a common phrase in victorian language -- i don't think churchill was depressed in a clinical sense the way you would analyze it today. he had moods and had things to be moody about when he lost the admiralty, he thought that was the end of his career and should have been, but he pushed his way

back. did he go to the front with some premonition of what would happen? i don't think suicidal is the thing, but he was physically a very brave man. he looked for bullets instead of avoiding them. then you go forward to june 5, 1944, he is insistent he will go with the landing forces on d-day, and everyone in the government thinks he is mad and ridiculous. they finally have to getting -- get george vi to write him a letter to say dear winston, thank you, but i would not be happy if something happened to you. he ended up not going. that was the kind of person he was. he wanted to be part of the action and thrust himself into the action any age, any time of his life. >> we will take one more question. >> the question in 1916 with what churchill would have taken with him to downing street in may 1940, he was highly critical

of the british offensive on the somme, and remained so in the 20's, the hague. i wonder if that didn't stay with him in 1940 and also explain some of his more audacious strategies that he came up with. lee pollack: i think that is a fair comment. he was always coming up with some innovative strategies. the soft underbelly of europe, the campaigns he proposed in the mediterranean. and he was certainly more than roosevelt very anxious about the invasion of france. there is a whole dialogue about whether that might have happened in 1943 and churchill was afraid it would fail, or even 1942. there is a thread that goes from these experiences in the first world war both at high levels of leadership as well as at the front that frames his response

in the second world war. you see that in the discussions about the landing, second front, and so forth. churchill was someone who is stubborn as all get out, but he did learn things over time, sometimes without even admitting them. there was a connection between his experience in the first war and who he was in the second. >> thank you. please join me in thanking lee pollack. [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> interested in american history tv? visit our website. you can see our upcoming schedule or watch a recent program. american