50,000 u.s. troops into south carolina. jackson prepares the u.s. navy, now off the coast of south carolina. he is ready to invade the city -- state of south carolina. civil on the brink of war, over a tariff, who would have thought? >> watch the entire program at 8:00 p.m. and midnight eastern time. american history tv, only on c-span3. >> author robert mcdonald explains why thomas jefferson was a polarizing figure. and why his actions and writings led him to be revered by his contemporaries or portrayed by -- as dangerously radical and un-american. this is about an hour and 15 minutes.

robert: of all the founding fathers, thomas jefferson was the most controversial and confounding. loved and hated, revealed and reviled during his lifetime, he served as a lightning rod for dispute. even today, he serves as a lightning rod or dispute. few major figures in american history promote such a polarization of public opinion. supporters that organize festivals in his honor, they praised him in speeches and song. his detractors portrayed him as a dilettante and a demagogue. double-faced and dangerously radical. an atheist, hostile to christianity. characterizing his believes as un-american, they target with the extremism of the french revolution. allies call him the formerly anonymous author of the

declaration of independence. image took shape because of his own creation. and because of factors out of his control. america positives about viewsson reflected their of america. robert s mcdonald is a professor of history at the united states military academy where he has taught since 1998. he is a graduate of the university of virginia and the university of north carolina at chapel hill where he earned his phd. a special on thomas jefferson and the early republic, he has published several journals and other essays. the author and editor of several books on jefferson and excluding -- including founding west point, light and liberty, thomas jefferson and the power of knowledge and confounding father

, thomas jefferson, image in his own time. he will be happy to sign copies after the election. he recently accepted -- we are happy to have him. he currently lives in caldwell on hudson, new york. with his wife christine and their children jefferson and grace. please welcome robert mcdonald. >> thank you also much for coming. is blow my cover someone. i like to stand before you as

the objective historian without a dog in this fight. ajust do admit that i have warm feeling for thomas jefferson. as he pointed out, my son is named jefferson. met at and i actually botticelli. a researchloyed as associate. we started working on a project together and started to date. i decided i wanted to propose marriage on jefferson hospira that. that is april 13. the only problem is that the year that we got engaged, 2001, april 13 fell on a friday. i am not a particularly superstitious person but i thought maybe that was not a good gamble to take. propose marriage on saturday,

april 13, we did get married. that,le of years after our son was born and as you know, we named him jefferson and two years and one week after that, our daughter was born and we came this close to naming her after jefferson's best friend madison. but we thought, even for us, that was a bit much. so we named our daughter grace. it really is great to be at the virginia historical society. fornt to thank you again being here. i want to apologize that you have had to stare at the cover of this book. i want to make it very clear to all of you that there is absolutely nothing wrong with your vision. will you is blurry by design.

perhaps there was a glitch in the transition of the file. me thatcame clear to this was the intention of the person who designed the book cover, i began to really appreciate her work. what she is trying to communicate is a fact that difference ofate deposit lifetime had collective double-digit as far as thomas jefferson. some people thought that thomas jefferson was fantastic. the glass was overflowing. not half full. other people thought that the glass was entirely empty. i have to say that in researching this book, i've been working on display along time. if you buy a copy, you will see in the knowledge is -- athat i have been working on the before a long time. i have been not working on it for even longer.

during that. of time, i learned a lot. it helps me to appreciate why people thoroughly also highly about thomas jefferson and why he has a many detractors and why he was in many respects a controversial figure in every lightning rod. for all sorts of different arguments about america and its place in the world. when you think about thomas jefferson, you could see him in the way that his allies saw him. that his friend saw him, that his admirers saw him. john beckley was one of his chief political allies. he described jefferson as the door of our god and the friend and benefactor of the whole human race. received as president fan mail from all corners of the united states. including a package from a woman in kentucky named elise with.

there was a note describing them this point, good and godly. there were children and in his honor. inauguration,his in newport rhode island, the was a jefferson possible -- festival. there is the other side of thomas jefferson. there are the detractors. there are the people who for various reasons saw thomas jefferson as someone who not was a good american but was

fundamentally un-american. this often as less of a key factor in the american revolution. he was in a message to the french. they saw him as a french revolutionary. individual who subscribes to all the excesses of the french revolution. to his credit, we have to say that jefferson was there as people were talking about a quality.ernity and it was only after he left that people came up with slogans like top of their heads. the radicalism of the french revolution is something that very much struck fear into the hearts of many jefferson's opponents. example, the, for

political discord within the united states reached a fever pitch. the president of pl, a man named timothy dwight gave a sermon where he predicted that if thomas jefferson were ever to become president, the bible would be cast into a bonfire and our children would be terrified into singing hymns. blight added that all of our wives and daughters are going to be made the victims of legal prostitution. you have people describing thomas jefferson as a coward. you have people describing thomas jefferson as a atheist. you have people describing him as an anarchist. you have none other than martha washington herself in the final years of her life describing

thomas jefferson as one of the most testable of mankind. book, as iing this mentioned, i spent a lot of time learning things. i would love to tell you about all of them. unfortunately, you don't have more than 20 years to spend with me tonight. i have to keep my list somewhat brief. one of the most exciting and surprising is that we all think we know this about thomas jefferson. the thing that you would hope all sculptures of a know about him. years, unknown about thomas jefferson. to hiserring of course authorship of the decoration of independence. was 33 years old from

virginia at the continental congress. he had performed favorably several different committees. he had gained a certain degree of renown among l.a. circles in america. as the author of the review of he right of virgin america was well thought of. there was nothing about thomas that any american members of the public in philadelphia new. he was a pretty obscure figure. was selected to be among the five-member committee that was tasked with drafting the decoration of independence. we know the basic story. he was on this committee with perhaps the most famous american. benjamin franklin of

pennsylvania. he was on the committee with one of the strongest proponents of the cause of independence, john adams of massachusetts. he served alongside roger sherman of connecticut and roger livingston of new york. for jefferson, it seemed pretty clear who should draft the declaration. it should be john adams and jefferson said as much to john adams. but according to jefferson was -- jefferson, adams said i will be three reasons why you should do it. you are aber one, virginian. a virginia must be at the head of this business. adams understood that because the war for independence had begun in massachusetts, because it was massachusetts where the british had first deployed troops, it was massachusetts who had response to the boston tea party and targeted the colony of

massachusetts with what had known as the intolerable acts. that was wheres, the british had said this all caps to license into concrete. it was in massachusetts that you had to battle a bunker hill. it was a massachusetts that you saw the blood of americans spilled. it was in massachusetts that people from the bay colony had rallied to the fight, joined by other new englanders. congress, itnental was going to be truly continental, we need to bring on board people from other colonies. it was important to bring on board the delegates from the southern colonies and what better way to do that than to make thomas jefferson the person who was responsible for the declaration? that was reason number one. reason number two, he said i john adams amp up noxious, ,uspected -- obnoxious

suspected and unpopular. you are very much otherwise. he said that because in some ways he wasn't noxious. in some ways, he was suspected fromse as a delegate exegesis, his colonies had much to gain. if the other colonies should declare them independent states and declare with massachusetts. he was unpopular because he was suspected. the fact that adams said things like that, he said i hope it makes a popular with us. i just love the self-deprecation and humility. adams then said, speaking of humility, reason number three, you can write 10 times better than i can. so thomas jefferson picked up this pan and he drafted the declaration. he did not import anything original as far as warning or sentiment. what he wanted to do was capture the american mind.

inexpress the american mind a tone and tenor fitting for the occasion. when finally, the declaration of independence was ratified by the continental congress on july 4, 17 timothy six. when finally, it was printed in -- 1776. when finally it was printed. of course, we know that the signing of the declaration did not occur until several weeks later in august of 1776. then thomas jefferson attached alongside all the other delegates of the continental congress. there is nothing that alerted the public to the fact that jefferson made this contribution. there was really nothing that could cause the public to wonder

who had made this contribution. the past really is a foreign country. the 18th-century really did have a different political culture. political writings often appeared anonymously. or with a pseudonym attached. it, you think about benjamin franklin, for example, wrote under a number of fictive identities. he was poor richard, he was richard saunders. the trio of hamilton and madison and jay authored the federalist papers. hamilton himself -- that is interesting. that is interesting because they want one identity to bring cohesiveness to their project. the 1790's, when hamilton was arguing against thomas jefferson at the jeffersonian republicans,

hamilton would write using multiple different pseudonyms to create the sense that there were many people opposing thomas jefferson. and that there was a great degree of consensus among them. pseudonyms were very common. things -- when it appeared in 1776, nobody knew that it was tom's pain common sense. it appeared without his name on the corner. the second one, thomas payne address this. he said that his identity was wholly unnecessary to the public. it was an unnecessary -- necessary for them to know who

wrote it. he is unconnected with any party and under no sort of employees public or private but the influence of reason and principle. culture of political writing was an outgrowth of the fact that in the 18th century, we were in the midst of being enlightened. the enlightenment emphasized that what should cause an argument to have authority is not the identity of its author. but instead, the logic of the argument. instead, it should be based on the soundness of the arguments. the soundness of the evidence in the arguments. who wrote the argument was in material. we live in a different world. i bet that if any of you try to write a letter to the editor of your local newspaper and ask

that your name be withheld, that would probably be in violation to your local newspaper's letters to the editor policy. nowadays, people think that if there is a very different view in the 18th century. it is not surprising that no one really asked. it is the person that drafted the declaration of independence. we know the fact that jefferson's name was not ,onnected with the declaration more than just a function of just conforming with the 18th-century political culture. it is an important function as far as regarding jefferson safety. benjamin franklin said to all of the other people in the congress , as they all went up to sign the document, he said, we must together, but most

assuredly we will all hang separately. this was an act of treason. what would jefferson gain by attaching his name? ,hat with the declaration gain if thomas jefferson, this young man from virginia was put forth as the person responsible for the words of the declaration of independence? the more interesting question is not, why jefferson's aim was not attached to the declaration, why he was not famous as the draftsman of the declaration, but instead how did he become famous as the person responsible for the words of the declaration of independence? if that is an interesting story -- when i first figured out jefferson was not known as the author of the declaration of independence. 1770 6, 17 77, 1770 eight, looking at fourth of july celebrations, none of which mentioned him. no one mentioned him in a 1 or

1782. in 1783 there was a sermon delivered in connecticut by the predecessor of yell president. -- yale president. wrote that it was thomas jefferson of virginia who poured the soul of the continent into the monumental declaration of independence. i thought that was interesting. thaty be wonder how was it he heard that thomas jefferson was the person who drafted the declaration of independence. ? i was able to go to yale and look in their archives, they have a copy of ezra stiles diary. recorded in his diary that he died in company with john langston of new hampshire.

john links didn't a member of the continental congress. --ston told stiles this is what happens when you hear things transmitted by word of mouth. clearly, stiles clarified jefferson's last name. that is how the word got passed along. that interesting, we know langston is not a first hand source. he was not a member of the continental congress in the summer of 1776. he arrived a couple months later. he must've heard it from other people who were members of the congress. stile's announcement was a significant one because it was the first one. of do not see a flurry mentions of thomas jefferson's

connection to the declaration of independence years following 17 83. as he was preparing to embark for france as a diplomat there, it mentioned that jefferson was nned theon who pe declaration of independence. if you look at the remainder of the 1780's and the 1790's, thomas jefferson remains utterly obscure is the author of the declaration of independence. maybe ironically, what makes jefferson eventually famous as the person who is connected with the declaration of independence, is not the declaration, but instead the constitution. the constitution, which jefferson was not present to be a part of the debating of or the ratification of, he was in france by this point. the constitution, which made possible the government, that

went into effect with the inauguration of george washington as president and john adams as vice president. thethomas jefferson as first secretary of state. and alexander hamilton as america's first secretary of the treasury. the constitution was something that, almost before the ink was dry on the document, the bulls started to disagree with what it actually meant. how it actually should be interpreted. weak, there were two political factions that emerged. was theide, there faction that was led by alexander hamilton. hamilton, the secretary of wanted to interpret the constitution broadly. he thought the point of the constitution was to expand the powers of the central government. the articles of the confederation had proven inadequate. opposing thise

interpretation of the constitution. this notion that it has wrought powers. powers. the leader of that group was james madison. the father of the constitution, believed the constitution should be strictly interpreted. that when it says the national government could do something, the national government could do something. when it did not say the national government could do something, that power should be reserved for the states or the people. the language of the bill of rights would soon clarify. ninjaon was a political in many respects. he was very good at the art of political branding. he quickly claimed, for his faction, the label of federalists. 1780's, when the

constitution was being debated and ratified by the state, the that ofsts supported the constitution. the federalist included not only hamilton, but people like james madison. people a thomas jefferson, jefferson supported the ratification of the constitution. was part --hink it perfect, he got the president should not be re-electable. keep up that there should be a bill of rights attached. eventually, his concerns would be addressed. jefferson was happy to see the constitution ratified. it is fair to call him a federalist. as theing his faction federalist, hamilton is implying are those who oppose him, not strict interpreters of the constitution. he is a plant -- implying that they are up with of the constitution. he is implying that james madison, who is recognized as the leader of this faction, that james madison, the father of the

constitution is an anti-federalist. jefferson madison and engaged in their own branding effort. they decided to call their own faction the republicans. the 18th century, if you are not a republican, them what must you be? a monarchist. they were suggesting that hamilton, as well as john adams, that adams and hamilton, and other members of the faction were actually monarchist at heart. they were counter revolutionists. reinstate ato government that mirrored that of great britain. inadvertently ended up saying that in public. in france, thomas jefferson's yne.nd tom pa

common sense, he writes the crisis, the american revolution comes to a conclusion, then he goes to france. he does not want to miss on the french revolution. he is one of those guys in the midwest who chases tornadoes around. book called the .ights of man james madison thinks it should be published in the united states. he wants his friend thomas jefferson to look at it. he asked jefferson to submit a copy to an american publisher. likes it.reads it and he thinks it is a pretty good look. when he transmits the volume by mail, to the publisher, jefferson figures he has to have a cover letter to explain how he had this book in the first place. how hit was handed to him and

what the intention of james madison was, and to take a little bit of the dryness off the note he wrote, it is about time that the standard of common sense can be raised against the heresies that have been propped up amongst us. have proppedthat up amongst us, when the publishers saw that line, he thought he knew what jefferson was referring to. if that jefferson was referring to john adams recent work. the discourses on development. treatiseaid it was a that was monarchical in its sense. his publisher, wanting to sell as many copies as possible. jefferson's permission,

used jefferson's comments as what we would call a blurb for the american addition for the rights of man. right on the title page appear jefferson's quote. circulated throughout the united states, everybody was sought that quotation new that thomas jefferson was calling out john adams. the secretary of state was calling out the vice president of the united states. him as aas criticizing monarchist. jefferson was mortified. he understood that this seemed incredibly and delegate. incredibly aggressive. he said john adams stood open me.hed against it caused a number of people to start toheir pens and attack thomas jefferson in the newspapers. among the attackers were john adams'son, john quincy.

-- alexander the hamilton. he criticized thomas jefferson as a french revolutionary, atheist.anarchist, hamilton selected some of the passages out of jefferson's own book, the notes on the state of he used these passages to try to make the case against thomas jefferson. jefferson, tried to argue for religious freedom in virginia. we know jefferson and madison would be instrumental in bringing about the virginia statute for religious freedom. said, it does mean no injury whether my neighbor believes in no god or 20 gods. it neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. to jefferson's supporters, this seems like an admirable

statement of toleration. that people have the right to do whatever they want to do, so long as their rights don't infringe upon the rights of others. as long as you don't my pocket or break my leg. hamilton singled that out. as jefferson's disregard to the soles of his countrymen. elsewhere in the states of virginia, jefferson calculated that if you took all of the water vapor in the atmosphere and liquefied it, sea levels would only rise 10 or 15 feet. or must behought something wrong with the biblical story of noah's ark. hamilton was not going to take that lying down. bible?on questioning the as a result a

negative view of thomas jefferson that took shape. chiefly because of the work. chiefly as a result of the pen of alexander hamilton. james madison, who early on in the 1790's had been quickly identified as the leader of the republican faction. now the receipts into the background. as thomas jefferson becomes known, as the leader as what is known as the jeffersonian republican party. ofison becomes one jefferson's chief aides. jefferson himself is shy about writing for the public prints. madison, for god sake dear sir, have your pen and cut hamilton to pieces in the face of the public. and madison does. you see people rushing to jefferson's defense.

all of the things that are set about thomas jefferson that are bad, there is a mirror image version produced by thomas jefferson's allies. ,efferson is not a radical jefferson has principles that are consistent with the heart of the american experience. heferson is not an atheist, is a supporter of all religions, and a man who wants to tolerate the free practice of all religions. jefferson is not some incendiary frenchman, he is an upstanding american. eyeerson is not some wild radical, he is a man of culture and taste and science. heart is withs anyone. he is with the people. there is this view of jefferson as a man of the people, a friend

of the people. a person who is anything but a monarchist, like some people. [laughter] but instead, a true republican. a true practitioner of the spirit of not -- 1776. you can see in the run-up to the elections of 1796 and 1800, jefferson's image was beginning to unfold. after george washington serves retires, in office and it is assumed by almost everyone in america that the contest to the presidency will come down to a contest between thomas jefferson and john adams. we see a number of depictions of thomas jefferson that begin to show various sides of his public image. including this one. and it isates to 1793

from philadelphia. p into thee anti-federal club. there he is standing upon a and he is imploring this rowdy mob to rally around his principles. clearly this is a negative depiction. you could see in the upper right-hand corner on the right side of the image, an african-american man. who federalist said was citizen sambo or it there were groups that call themselves democratic /republican society. they saw themselves as the sons of liberty clubs that emerged during the american revolution. in philadelphia there was an african-american member of the society.

here he is being lampooned as citizen sambo. in his word bubble it says, our turn nex. the cartoonist is employing stereo typical african-american suggest that if jefferson should get power, it is not just the common white man who would be elevated, all sorts of undesirable things would happen. when you think about who supports jefferson, when you think about who cheers jefferson motleyis not just this assemblage. look at the bottom left side of the image. that is the devil himself. jefferson,ort thomas you support satan. there is not much new wants here. there is not much nuance here either. [laughter] robert: this is a later cartoon.

this time, jefferson is not being supported by the devil. in this depiction thomas there for sin -- thomas jefferson is the devil and is helping tom governmentd down the that was erected under george washington and john adams. cartoon inubsequent the run-up to the election of 1800. here thomas jefferson is trying altar of french despotism. the constitution of the united states of america. the flames are being kindled by a number of incendiary tracks, including the philadelphia over aurora. the chief jeffersonian republican newspaper. we see jefferson dropping from his right-hand a letter he has written to a man named philip.

a back story about jefferson and philip. philip was an italian who brought a farm. when philip returned back to italy he asked jefferson to look after his farm. would communicate with him periodically about the financial transactions of the farm. jefferson did. 1796, to take a bit of the dryness often no, you think jefferson would learn his lesson by this point. he wrote some political asset to philip. he described the situation around him. in the final days of the washington administration. america had just ratified the jay treaty which repudiated a revolutionary war in france. all around there were signs of increasing monarchism in jefferson's eyes.

jefferson wrote to philip, it would give you a fever if you could see men who once were samson's in the field and solomons in the council, but who have now had their head shorn by the harlot england. if you know your bible stories, you know that jefferson was not saying nice things. was the sampson in the field and the solomon in the council of jefferson must have been referring to? who else could it be other than president washington himself. this is a juicy letter. philip received it in italy and agreed it was a juicy letter. he translated from english and had it published. by a frenchd up newspaper and translated into french trade it was published and seen by british newspaper.

translated back into english. it was published. you could imagine, who in america reads british newspapers? federalist. they published it in their papers. in each new version, the document got a bit more garbled. in each new version jefferson statement seemed a bit more extreme. rock around jefferson's neck that was hung. it was placed as a reminder of jefferson's criticism of the first president of the united states. guy,rson, clearly a bad but the implication is cemented by the fact that, who is swooping in to save the day and prevent jefferson from burning the constitution but the federal eagle guided by the eye of god.

again, at the bottom right-hand side of the cartoon, who again is cheering thomas jefferson on? that's right, his good buddy, sasatan. there is not a whole lot of nuance in any of this. [laughter] robert: the contest between jefferson and john adams was a heated one. we today think that our politics get overheated. say, yout is fair to might disagree, but i think it's worseo say that it was back at the dawn of the 19th century. in the 1790's, and in the first years of the 1800s, americans had not accepted the legitimacy of political parties. political parties are an

extraconstitutional innovation. jefferson did not think of himself as a partisan, he thought of the self as a defender of america. adams was a partisan, but jefferson did not see himself as a partisan. the hamilton in adams, they felt the same way. they were not partisans, jefferson was the partisan. adams was a partisan who won and the election of 1796. jefferson came in second and served as john adams vice president. active member of the administration. he mostly sat in the senate & it over the proceedings. four years later, there was a rematch. once again, adams was the candidate. republicans advanced jefferson. the result was different. john adams came in third. thomas jefferson tied for first with his own running mate, erin

byrne. after several ballots in the nominated -- i have still not been replaced by the incoming house. finally jefferson was named the president. it is a story worth telling. the federalist in the congress thought, for 10 years we have been saying horrible things about thomas jefferson. the guy hangs out with the devil all of the time. he is the last person we should want to be the president of the united states. anyone has to be better than thomas jefferson. we do not know much about this aaron, maybe we will have influence over him. ironically, they do not make movies any better than this. whoically, who is the man thought that this federalist plan was a disaster?

in was the man who in gains a letter -- engaged in a letter writing campaign to support thomas jefferson and not to support aaron. the man was none other than alexander hamilton himself. james baird,e to the lone congressman from delaware and urged him not to vote for burn. he said if the federalist liked r, they will be responsible for all the things he will do. if we acquiesce to the election of jefferson, the federalist will remain without stain. in addition, hamilton said, while jefferson has principles with which we disagree, aaron bur has no principles whatsoever. jefferson became the president.

as president, this is one of the second things that i learned the first ison that, no one knew he was the author of the declaration of independence until the 1790's. until the election of 1796. these federalist saying that thomas jefferson is anti-american, what better response for the republicans to me? you say he is anti-american. thomas jefferson is the author of the declaration that defined american -- america. thomas jefferson is the author of america's root certificate. he is the author of america statement of purpose. how could anyone be more american than thomas jefferson? so increasingly jefferson is becoming connected with the declaration.

the second thing i discovered was that jefferson was really happy to see this. jefferson very much cared about his public image. he was concerned with what others were saying about him. ofknow this for a number different reasons, including the fact that thomas jefferson kept a number of scrap looks, of newspaper clippings about him. start ited i will working on a project with christine before we started dating, this was the project. i found it in the special collections library at the university of virginia. for volumes of scrapbooks that were attributed to thomas jefferson's granddaughters. i started to look at them, it was striking. the newspaper clippings are envelopes thato have been unfolded and used as scrap papers. the envelopes are addressed to and tojefferson, philip

james madison. and jefferson's secretary of state. jefferson had access to the correspondents. there are articles that had notations that appeared to be in the handwriting of thomas jefferson. the articles are about thomas jefferson. anre are some that had emotional relevance for thomas jefferson. in one volume, we have a number of poems. the poems do not necessarily have political connotations. you can connect them with thomas jefferson's life. nes ofis one called sce my youth. one is about two young men and one dies young. page, appears this oak leaf. we know that, according to jefferson, when he was a young

boy living in shadwell, he and his best friend would climb the mountain that would become monticello. they would sit on this oak tree. one day they made a promise that wouldr should survive, bury the first to die under the shade of the street. that was the origin of the monticello's cemetery. we seer scrapbooks, depictions of fourth of july celebrations. made in honor of thomas jefferson's. poems and songs in honor of thomas jefferson. critical a few anti-jefferson pieces. almost to provide some sort of context. the preference is for positive per trails of thomas jefferson. when you think about it, in a ,ime for we had a gallup survey what better way to keep track of the polls of public opinion?

thomas jefferson was very much concerned with power -- people regarded him. can see that thomas jefferson, throughout his indoor -- is going to low points and high points. high points like the purchase of louisiana. high points like paying down one third of the national debt. but we also see low points. we see jefferson's agonizing efforts to avoid foreign war. to work through the controversial embargo to keep american commerce out of danger. we see thomas jefferson retiring from office, and commemorating the pleasure of retirement

through the poems that he pasted into his scrapbooks. friendsefferson's good was the wife of the editor of the jeffersonian republican newspaper. woman named margaret hurray smith. at theng to her memoirs inauguration of james madison. at the reception after she saw thomas jefferson. he was standing with a smile on her face. she said, you look like a man much relieved. he said yes, yes ma'am i am and i am much happier than my friend. in other words, now it is james madison's problem. i get to move on and go back home. i get to go back home to my farm and my family and my looks, and my pleasures of retirement only think about jefferson's retirement and the projects of his retirement, we think about jefferson's founding of the university of virginia. hoped to put ahe

stamp upon the leaders of generations. the school that he designed and selected books for the library. his school where he hired the original faculty. a school where he hoped he could beef -- be quoted freely. [laughter] [applause] yet, i think in addition to the university of virginia. in addition to jefferson's efforts to use the university of virginia to secure his legacy, we could see him engaged in other sorts of projects. some of you might not know that before he established the university of virginia, he was the founder of another important school. including the school that would oli tubeon thomas s this portrait.

it is the united states military academy. jefferson called for and established in 1802. in recognition of his status as the military academy's founder. the cadets and the faculty hired thomas soli tube this portrait of thomas jefferson that would be displayed at west point. when you look at this portrait, you can see how jefferson and createe collaborating to in image to thomas jefferson that will resonate within the walls of west point as well is beyond them. thatrson is wearing a cold was left to him by the famous polish patriot. design a to fortification at west point before it became the united states military academy. jefferson is standing next to a column. out whatnnot figure

was this column. atdoes not resemble a column monticello. it does not resemble a column at the white house. a good friend of mine and a great scholar made what i think is a fantastic discovery. matcholumn is a perfect to the columns that appear in the old house of representatives in washington dc. and what is now statuary hall. anderson was the president the vice president. he never served in the house of representatives. pictured standing a column in the house of representatives, the people's solidifies his reputation as the man of the people. the final project in which jefferson engaged in his retirement. i think, also to secure his reputation.

it was to patch things up with john adams. jefferson and adams had been estranged for many years. they barely spoke when jefferson was vice president. when jefferson was elected vice president, john adams left town and the early hours of the morning of jefferson's inauguration. it was only through the efforts of their mutual friend, benjamin rush. that the two men begin to patch things up. fantastic number of letters. they talked about all the things you are not supposed to talk about. they spoke and wrote about religion. they wrote about politics, history, philosophy, the future. it is clear that the audience for their letters is not just each other. if you've visited monticello and have taken a tour of the house.

if you gone into what jefferson called his sanctum sanctorum, you perhaps remember his polygraph machine. this letter writing machine that with one his desk, hand jefferson holds a pen and that penn is connected to a series of levees -- levers and pulleys. it traces out a copy of whatever letter jefferson happens to be writing. he cannot only send off the copy in the mail, but retain a copy for his own records. it is clear that thomas jefferson, from a fairly early age understands that he is a figure on the stage of history. that he is not writing only for himself or his recipient, but he is writing for posterity. jefferson and adams lived long lives. 1826, johnng of adams was 90 and thomas jefferson turned 83.

by may jefferson quipped as if he had one foot in the grave and the other uplifted to follow. within a few weeks of that comment,, sheffer on his deathbed. at theerson's bedside 6 there was, 182 his grandson, his grandson in tryst andnicholas p his personal physician, a university of virginia professor. jefferson expressed to these men, and to others, his final to see he wanted to live the fourth of july. the 50th anniversary of independence. and asdays passed, jefferson's life waned, he fell in and out of consciousness. on july 1, his eyes fluttered open.

he asked the man at his bedside, is it the fourth? of course they had to disappoint him and shake their heads no. the next day, jefferson again opened his eyes, this time with a weaker voice he asked, is it the fourth? and again they had to disappoint him. the hours passed, his pulse slowed, his life waned. --the night of july 3, 1776 1826, he whispered is it the fourth? thinking that the old man could go at any moment, nicholas tryst , who clearly did not spend enough time at west point to internalize the honor code -- [laughter] lied to thomas jefferson

and said yes, it is the fourth of july. a lot of biographers say those were his last words. if you go to special collections and archives at the university of virginia library, you will see the account of dr. douglas in. heording to his account, offers to jefferson a dose of what is believed to be life-sustaining medication. jefferson, having been assured that it is already the fourth of noy turned to him and said, doctor, nothing more. this would be a terrible story if right then and there on july 3, 1826 jefferson died. the good news is that he did not. lived until noon the next day. he lived to die 50 years to the

hour after the continental congresses ratification of the declaration of independence. an amazing moment in history. made all the more amazing by the unbeknownst to anyone in virginia, hundreds of miles to the north and 20, massachusetts, john adams was on his death bed. that he died around 5:00 p.m. when the declaration was first publicly proclaimed. that his last words, not knowing what had happened down in virginia, his last words war thomas jefferson survives. i would like to think that at that very moment thomas jefferson was being lifted laughing hisngels bottom off and proving john adams wrong. [laughter] but in another way, it metaphorically john adams was right. maybe jefferson did survive.

the entire revolutionary generation survive. maybe the principles of the american revolution were bound to survive. certainly jefferson hope so. he hoped his reputation would survive. he still had one final contribution to it to make. after his death among his papers, people found instructions for his tombstone. when you think about all the things that jefferson had done in his life, what he chooses to list is curious. think about all the offices he held. he was a member of the house of purchases, member of the continental congress, he had been our minister to france. he was our first secretary of state, second vice president, third president, none of that is listed. he wantsjefferson says these words carved upon the stone and not a word more. thomas jefferson, author of the

declaration of independence, of the statute of virginia for religious freedom and father of the university of virginia. when you really think about it, what is the statement that thomas jefferson is trying to make here? in my opinion it is this. what thomas jefferson wanted us to know is that, his greatness does not come from the powers that men had given to him. byt makes jefferson great the powers that he restored to mankind. thank you very much. [applause] >> we have time for a few

questions. >> that was in engaging talk about a complex character. you spoke frequently of his writings and his collections. your cartoons showed -- wikis you say about thomas jefferson as a public speaker? robert: he was terrible. [laughter] robert: he was terrible. i think he was well aware of that. we think about how political culture was different then than it is now, fortunately for --mas jefferson, politicians i hate that term. statesmen. there were not many occasions for them to address crowds. if you were standing for office, you would never run for office. if people fourth your name you would sit that and let others do or say what they would.

you would not make speeches, and not make promises to say if you vote for me i will do this for you. that is considered the height of corruption. [laughter] the first time jefferson could express himself directly to the american people was his inaugural address. in what peopleat described as hush tones. they say his voice very carried beyond the first couple of rows in the house of representatives chambers. jefferson understood this. samuel harrisonrovided smith, the editor of the national intelligence with the text of his speech. by the time his speech was over there were printed copies and it appeared in the national intelligence newspaper. jefferson was aware of his shortcomings as based public speaker, but he figured out ways to overcome them. i am curious about the fact

that jefferson served in a washington's first. washington spoke against political parties, yet jefferson is recognized as a leading member of the first party division in our country. can you speak about jefferson's relationship with washington along those lines? think the partisanship put a strain upon their relationship. jefferson thought that washington -- let me make this point clear for starters. washington was not a federalist. washington was not a republican. washington was a president above party. washington disdained the notion of partisanship. washington. partisanship was unfathomable. we might agree with some of our foreign policy,

but we might disagree with some of those same people about taxes. he might disagree with some, but agree with others about parks or what have you. why would we always be a green with the same people, and disagreeing with the same people? to washington, that did not make any sense. he was horrified by the emergence of partisanship. he thought it possessed a real potential to lead to the disunion of the united states. it was still a fragile experiment. hamilton. that the fate of america hung in the balance. jefferson thought the future of america hung in the balance. that the other side was moving america off course in a dangerous direction. both hamilton and jefferson worked hard to try to win over george washington.

sometimes supported jefferson, sometimes supported hamilton. i the end of washington's presidency, jefferson had become grata,ingly persona non which explains why martha washington described jefferson as one of the most a testable of mankind. grata, jefferson was sponsoring a new partisan press that was criticizing the washington administration. it was criticizing washington himself. these patriots these virginians, these partners in the american revolution and the project of independence, even their relationship was put under pretty severe strain. how can you explain how frugal jefferson was with the suspendedoney, but his own -- did not spend his own? robert: if only all of our presidents could be like that.

[laughter] robert: on the public side of things, jefferson that our government was doing too much. he referred to his first address.e -- inaugural what i think is the most signature line is jefferson's comment. in thed the people audience, we have so many advantages, a great population, an abundance of resources, what ourins to the closest of felicity's. a wise and frugal government which shall restrain men from injuring one another, but shall leave them alone in their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouths of labor the bread it has earned. this is the sum of good government. what jeff or min -- jefferson is saying is that, the government should be minimalist.

the government should protect people's rights. for the most part, the national government could leave them alone. became president, he was the only president who promised to do less than his predecessors. he immediately got to the work of cutting the government. he laid off a number of tax collectors. a defeat made possible by the fact that he repealed all internal taxes, including that whiskey tax that led to the whiskey rebellion in the 1790's. tightening and the booming economy made it possible for jefferson to pay down one third of the debt even though he purchased louisiana for $15 million. that is a significant accomplishment. on the personal side of things, thomas jefferson was a farmer. that theirnd fortunes were connected to factors beyond their control.

things got worse for thomas shell for sin father-in-law passed away. jefferson inherited from his father-in-law, not only land and slaves, butthings debts. in virginia there was a legal doctrine that said, if you inherited land and it was sell off you cannot that land. you had to retain possession of that land. jefferson could never fully discharged those debts, which continued to mount. of course jefferson loved to spend money. when did it be great if we could all go back in time and go to dinner at monticello. i don't the key ever received quite so many people at his doorsteps, but there are accounts of him into taking 50 people on a daily basis. all of that food, all of that wine, and all of those books. the man had the largest library in the western hemisphere. have an expensive

lifestyle. when he is retired, his debtn-law defaults upon a and jefferson is left holding the bag. at the end of his life he -- he could barely pay the interest on his death. he basically dies bankrupt. it is a sad story. >> was the relationship between jefferson and sally hemming well-known at that time? robert: i always expect someone to ask that. [laughter] robert: yes, yes it was. here is the story that broke the news. the page of the richmond recorder, a federalist newspaper on the morning of september 1, 1802. the author was james thompson

calendar, a writer for the jeffersonian republican. he made a living saying terrible things about george washington and john adams. a man who had been jailed under 1798dams administration of administration act. a man who was freed by thomas jefferson. thomas jefferson gave him a grant of money to pay off his bills, but he wanted more. postmaster,e job of that is something jefferson was not willing to give. put forth the story that thomas sheffer's the death of his wife started a relationship and had a relationship at monticello's with sally. there was a slave in monticello's name sally. thestory does not quite hit mark. there are details of what calendar says that are not true.

in mywill tell you that, estimation, the story is probably true. i say probably, not 100%. but i think the evidence says that jefferson did probably have a long-standing relationship with sally hemmings. i want to encourage you to think about what it might have been like. to realize that what we are doing is speculating. in the time trying to laugh at thomas jefferson and sally hemmings. there was a cartoon in 1804 called a philosophic cock. here's thomas jefferson the rooster and sally hemming the hen. it was a symbol of revolutionary france. jefferson was exposed to a lot of ridicule. people said he lowered himself

by having a relationship with a woman of african descent. i do not know that that is true. i would say this. atknow jefferson was present monticello whenever salley became pregnant. she became pregnant six times over the course of several years. it seems like a long-term relationship. all of it a court -- happening after the death of thomas jefferson's wife. we know sally was jefferson's sister.e's half sally hemmings was the daughter of thomas jefferson's other in law. sally hemmings, whose mother was supposedly the daughter of an english ship captain. she was one quarterback -- black, three quarters white. she probably resembles thomas jefferson's late wife. heoman who on her death bed promised he would never remarry.

she asked him not to remarry because her father remarried after the death of her mother, she felt she was treated to a second-class citizen in her own home when her stepmother's daughters join the family. this occurs over time. -- how many had been to france or been in paris? how many were bilingual? how many women experienced life at monticello? i think it is safe to assume that sally hemmings is a sophisticated individual. sally told her children that jefferson was their father. the fact that all of the children of sally hemmings were freed when they became adults. the fact that they were friends of thomas jefferson, who in private letters referenced his relationship.

nots not a slamdunk, it is 100%, but the case is compelling that jefferson and sally hemmings had a relationship. what sealed the deal was the discovery of this photograph. [laughter] robert: thank you all very much. [applause] >> interested in american history tv? c-span.org/history and see our upcoming schedule or watch a recent program. american artifact, road to the white house rewind and more at

c-span.org/history. budget is not legally binding, it is not a law. it has a guidance of what you are supposed to do. there is no repercussions that the budget follows. we passed the budget and blew through the budget last year. sunday night, president of the committee for responsible federal budget talks about the federal budget process and what to expect from the trump administration. >> this issue is so hard for politicians to vote the right way. paying for things less or paying for more. we borrow hundreds of billions of dollars a year. that makes sense when you are in a recession, not when you're a economy are strong. we have to make these hard changes, and they involve ,aising taxes, cutting benefits those are things every poll store will tell their politician

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studentcam competition and contest rules, go to studentcam.org. >> author know what entree trudeau describes abraham near the end of the civil war in 1865. he talks about some of the primary sources he used them why some depots has -- details have been misinterpreted. this there are some odd themes going on here. , i agree withdge him to a great degree. this writerthat for