cable satellite corp. 2017] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> join us every saturday evening at 8:00 p.m. and midnight eastern as we join students and college classrooms to hear lectures on topics ranging from the american revolution to 9/11. lectures in history are also available as podcasts. visit our website, ry/podcasts,rg/histo or download them from itunes. ask on american history tv, retired u.s. marine and former chair of the joint chiefs of staff, peter pace, talks about his military experiences and leadership. his 50 minute talk is part of an annual conference coast -- posted by the american veterans center. >> for our second keynote speaker introduction, i would julia, thesent

executive officer at the united states naval academy. . pace began ater the class of 1967 naval academy. is the 50 year link in the chain. he held command at all levels, including second battalion first marines, southern command. general pace was sworn in to the joint chiefs of staff in 2005. he served as a principal military link to the president, secretary of defense, national security council, and homeland security council. prior to becoming chairman, he served for four years on the joint chiefs of staff. have the first marine to served in either of these positions. [applause] general pace: good morning, it

is great to be here with you all. i have been asked to talk about leadership. and i will talk about leadership if you accept the fact i do not believe i am a leadership expert. i will share biases about leadership that of developed within me over my career, and why they are important to me. but before i start, i could not theibly not recognize incredible folks here from world war ii. representatives, thank you, gentlemen and ladies for your service to the country. you do not think of yourselves i am sure, as heroes, but we think of you that way. it is notlks like me, that i did not know fear on the battlefield. i certainly did. but that fear was overcome by the fear that somehow i would let down the legacy of the marines that went before me. and you all from world war ii set the standard for courage and

commitment and all that we hold dear, things we try to adhere to. us, to hold getting onto in the worst of times. thank you very much. [applause] i should probably get the obvious out of the way. you are looking at my finger. i was defending a little old lady -- it is simply an infected finger. [laughter] principlesleadership are standard. but how each individual defines them is very much individual and unique. when you see leaders you admire, that means, you try to emulate them. if it works for you, by all means, do it. if it does not work for you, take it out of your gift bag.

have shaken each of your hands as you came in the room. that would've been a good thing, it would've made me feel more close to you as a family. i love it when someone puts their arm around me and says pete, you did a good job. had someone put her arm around you that is not comfortable with doing that, it is like two magnets that repel. like,ulate the things you keep the things that work for you, leave the other things on the cutting room floor. you do not need every single trick to be a good leader. it may sound funny to you from a guy that spent 44 years in pick what you, want to use. but think about it. army, navy, marine corps, air

force, each organization has a unique personality. the combination gives us a great joined force, but each is unique. and businesses are unique. with all that is available on now, whynet right would you not research whether it is a military job or civilian job, why we do not do your research on that organization? especially with its leaders of that organization? do you want to grow up and be them? you admire them, you want to be there. if the answer is yes, by all means go and chase that route. but the answer is, i am not comfortable, you will run away. if you are the boss and you parachute in the come a you might be able to change the culture of the organization. but for most of us, we start out at the bottom.

the organization changes us. you want to make sure the organization you join will change you and the person you want to be. because it will. next, this may sound counter to the first, grow where you are planted. each of us has in our head, exactly what we want to do and how we want to do it right now. often, our service, our need that isa different from what we would like to do. and often they will see things we do not see in ourselves, necessarily. i could give you example after example after example. -- in my own career. had id simply tell you, done everything i wanted to do

personally inside the marine corps, i would be a retired colonel by now. -- do noty rossum, i ended upg -- getting an education i did not know i needed. they gave me experiences that allowed me to join the joint force. i was a one star, living in they said they have some great news, i will give you first marine division in california. 16,000 marines, could not be better. i am a happy camper. about three weeks later he called again and says pete, i only told you i would give you the division. but i want to be able to nominate you for three stars and

you do not have a joint tour yet . i will assign you to be the deputy command in japan and work for air force officers and you will get joint credit. this is ego satisfying because is talking about three instead of one, but it is still disappointing. i said sir, if you're asking me if i would rather work for a three-star in is japan, or commd a division, i got to have a division. he said, i am not asking you. [laughter] i said, ok sir. if i do not get three stars, would you consider giving me the division on the way home? he says, that will not happen. i go to japan and work in the air force, three-star.

i talk with my hands, in addition to being italian. [laughter] really,e: we get along really well for two years. weaknesses,es, my his strength, my strengths, work well together. together. he gets four stars and commands, i get three stars and commands. , andcomes vice chairman another is nominated to be chairman. they say to him, who do you want to be our vice chair? and he says, peter pace. advertising, if you give me the same choice -- [laughter] gen. pace: fair enough. i was doing the best i could, they put me on a track with the vice chairman.

you sure people know what want. speak up for what you would like to do. someplace where you would rather be doing something else, tell your boss. i get it, i will do it the best i can. yes, it is possible. if it becomes available i would love to have a chance to do this. make sure people know what you want, but let them also know you will do what you're told. next, make decisions. the bigwhy i get paid bucks, make decisions. i learned this early on. , 1968, we had a huge battle. in my company of about 160 guys, we went on patrol. there was high grass.

got to patrolling and i a decision point and called back secondly tender, he was 24, i was 22. i asked him for guidance and he gave it to me. i patrolled further and came to another decision point and asked them for guidance, and he gave it to me. the third time i stopped and take for guidance, if you out the curse words, he did not say anything to me. .ut i got the message you are out there on the point, i put you out there to make decisions, so make decisions. i was really mad. first it him, then it myself. i said if he called, tell him i am not here. [laughter] gen. pace: because i am going to start making decisions. buttf i get mine -- my

d again, it will not be for not making decisions. if you know it is your decision to make, make it. decision tor boss' make him a get it to them as fast as you can. you're wasting time if it is not your decision to make. but, what about the times when you're not sure if it is your authority or your boss' ? think through what you would do. and then save, boss, i am not sure if it is your decision or mine. if it is mine, this is what i'm going to do. if it is yours, this is what i recommend you do. they will say, i love you. you did not come to me with a burden, you have given me a problem and a possible solution. or i then say, go do it got it, i will do it that way, or i got it, let me think about

it. meher way, you have helped if i am your boss. you have done the right thing. the other thing about decisions, when you know it is your decision but you are looking at the problem and say, i am not is, what the right answer especially regarding troops. bit andck for a little put yourself in a couple different positions. if you are that true, what would you expect you to do? if you were one of your peers what would you expect you to do? if you were your boss, what would you expect me to do? having looked at it from all those perspectives, do not do anything anyone expects you to do, do what you are most comfortable doing with your personality. think about it from different i may be right,

i may be wrong, but i'm going to do it this way. you will be right, 90% of the time. if i am your boss and your doing things under my leadership i will help you clean up the 10%, i am happy to help you clean up the 10%. make decisions. you that i surprise admire courage. i have seen incredible courage on the battlefield. but that is not the type of courage i am talking about. i am talking about the courage it takes and a well lit, air-conditioned room, a group of people together, talking about , and all the heads are going up and down, the bosses talking. and someone has the temerity to say, i see it differently, and here is why. huge. huge.

i am your boss, that is what i mean. put yourself in your boss' decision. you are trying to make it to the decision you can. you need your team to be looking at you. as a general, if i want to know how bright and smart i am, i can convince myself. tell me myyou to navy is ugly if my navy is ugly. [laughter] gen. pace: the more junior you are, the harder it is. you are not trying to get run over here. how do you get your country to the table in a way that can be heard? if i say, major, i disagree. now there could be a testosterone problem. said, if you had not said that, i was thinking this, can you educate me?

if i am right, he says pete, you are right. but he is giving me the education i asked for. either way, i am helping the team. maybe it is right, maybe it is wrong. you don't always have to be right, but you should know his promise yourself you will never leave the conversation without taking care of whatever that pit in your stomach is. get it on the table. whatever way you use. everyone is in the same room, their heads going up and down, you can say, i disagree with everybody, a. seems to me everyone in this room is agreement, but i am having problems with this piece right here. can you help me understand it better? ton people do not have defend their turf. they can embrace your idea or

give you the education you ask for. i did it today, i do it in corporate life. i ask questions. honestly, my ego, when i asked the question usually i believe i am right. but i get the education i ask for. i am not always right, but i always insist to myself that i get my ideas on the table. need a room full of people just breathing if i am the boss. i want people thinking critically. especially in the military, it is about lives, not about egos. courage. speaking truth to power. you do not have to be right. i call it setting your moral compass. was in vietnam, we were

on patrol in july of 1968. i had gone to vietnam hearing stories about atrocities in combat. saying, i in quantico would never do that myself, or let anyone in my command do anything illegal or immoral in combat. not going to happen. shoots and, a sniper kills my machine gun operator. a great young man, born in italy, raised in new york city, went to a high school in rhode island. he graduated and went to the service. killed the 30th of july, 1968. i was infuriated. i called and artillery strike. sergeant did not say anything, but looked at me.

and i knew by the way he was looking at me that what i was doing was wrong. you know it takes a little while for the call to fire to be translated into guns. i was able to call off the strike. and we did what we should have done. we went on foot and all we found was women and children. would i live with myself today if i had killed all those innocents? it stunned me. when i was done with that patrol i had a chance to apologize to them for almost doing. best promise that to the of my ability i would never let that happen again. as 30morning, as soon july 1968, i say to myself, what will happen today? what might challenge me? of the time, anything i think that does not happen.

that is not the point. the point is to train yourself to think about things through a moral lens. thatu have in your mind this is the person you are this morning and the person you will be tomorrow morning, same time, same place, as things happen in the course of the day, it does not take very long when someone gives you an order to do something, you think to yourself, is this me? can i do this? and on the very, very rare occasions where it is something you are not comfortable with, then you have a mechanism to help you identify that probably during the time you are getting an order, by the time you're finished receiving it, you know. it is your moral compass.

morally be challenged when you're least prepared emotionally to deal with it. is stress of combat or too many drinks. before you get your questions. somebody once told me that if you have integrity, that is all that matters. integrity do not have , that is all that matters. i believe that to be true. you have your name and your integrity. no one can take them from you that you can sure mess them up. leader, take care of the folks in your charge? how do you that --

do that? reputation. you meet her take care of your people or not. how you do that at the start? day and talkutes a to one of your subordinates about something other than the mission. who are they? what are their aspirations? get to know them as the human beings they are, and make sure you understand that these are not replaceable lance corporals, they are human beings. day, ifo that day after you defend your people without telling them you are defending them from stuff that roles downhill, nothing, i don't care what level you are, nothing should be able to roll past you.

i am walking around my battalion area and i see something i do not like, i can call in my sergeant major work on the commander and tell them i don't like it. if my regimental commander is walking around my area in season something he doesn't like, he one. me and i own that me. not chew up a guy blow guy belowt chew out a me. if you let your folks know you care, under time they will come down understand that about you. it takes time. it takes you doing the right thing to accomplish the mission

and also take care of your people. if you become known -- in an organization that has caring leadership, the leader will put out his or her attempt -- intent. as soon as they start doing the mission, there will be friction. subordinates will take personal and professional risk, physical and professional risk, and they will change your orders on the fly to get to your intent. in an organization that believes it is all about the next promotion, guess what they are going to do?

exactly what they told -- you told them to do. are able to of us see all of the possible friction points, the mission fails. take care of your troops, that is the right thing to do as a leader. the result of being a caring leader is an organization that will perform way beyond the have at which any of us right to believe we can lead individuals to accomplish. it is amazing. i am walking proof of trying to be a caring later whose troops cleaned up my orders. and let youthere have at me. nothing is out of bounds, and if i don't know the answer i will make something up. [laughter]

you mentioned intent. how do you really that so that they are not meddling -- muddling your orders, but things can be accounted for without orders being ignored? gen. pace: the senior person always sets the tone. you are giving the orders. if you're in the marine corps and army, those of the two i am most familiar with. within their is the commander's intent. normally spoken. it is when you are telling your folks what you want to have done that you reinforce with them, this is the best thing we can think of right now, make the

changes you need on the fly to get to this objective. whatever way you feel comfortable. very important. that and they fail, you have to be very careful about how you address that. you, youay, hey, thank try to do it, you took my intent and applied a different solution to it and god bless you. if you say, i told you not to do that, guess what? they are never going to do anything on their own again. they will be hammered back into line, which is what you don't want. the senior person in the room has responsibility. about tell you a story president bush 43.

i've been vice-chairman all of one week. i am the acting chairman, i go to the white house, i am sitting with the national security council. there is a discussion going on that has nothing to do with the military. there, and iing say, mr. president this is out of my lane, but that is as far as i get. he says, as long as your in this room, nothing is out of your lane. and i speak my piece. two days later, i'm a little bit of a slow learner, back at the white house. once again, something going on. i am still in my first week, trying to not be able in a china shop, and i say it is a little

bit out of my lane, and that was as far as i got. he said, didn't i tell you that if you're in this room, nothing is out of your lane? i said, you did, and you won't have to do so again. [laughter] are powerfulese people. roomld everybody in the that although they were designated experts in the room in particular fields, he expected the rest of us to put our thinking caps on when that person was speaking. he said, you have a uniform on, here inink everyone suits and dresses should be questioning what you're saying. the senior person in the room, you're the one who sets the tone

and you are the one whose makes all ofailure the difference as far as what happens next. >> thank you so much for your, terry. -- your commentary. your talks out in was what you said about integrity. in the context of a social setting, everyone is saying one --ng and you disagree with but the way you present your disagreement is diplomatic. about truth to power. has there been a time in your career when you saw things that

were not in the best interest of the military and could even be in the to good order military where you had to say it in a less diplomatic way? specific: yes, one point comes to my mind, but let me preface it by saying, i did not realize this when i was in it. after you retire you think a little bit. the four years i was vice-chairman and the three years i was chairman, every single time i said to secretary gates or secretary rumsfeld or president bush that we should not do this for these reasons, every single time it was immediately taken off the table. that is not to say that every time i made a recommendation we did it that way. we shouldn't have.

want my course of action chosen, i would rather have the state or treasury do it if possible. because thetage leadership environment in which i worked was very receptive. the only time i can remember that i got sideways from what i would've liked to happen is at a press conference. secretary rumsfeld and i were together all the time, we always had a team meeting before. other, ifsaid to each

you say something that is inaccurate, i will fix it, and vice versa. that the public has the correct data. we are out there one day, and a reporter says to me, general soldier sees an iraqi military person abusing a citizen, what should they do? i said, they should stop it. if you can't stop it, he should report it. rumsfeld says, what the general meant to say was dut-dut-dut.

have reporters asking the question. i have folks watching on question -- television. enemy.the nanoseconds, i decided to say, no sir, i said what i meant. troops -- we expect our troops to be ethical army battlefield. you can look up the exact words i said. conference, we had a wash up, nothing was said that. the secretary got back to his office and some people called slim --said that i

slamdunk tim. that was not my intention. he called me up and said, i need you to correct the record. i said, about what? he said, you were wrong about what the troops should do. ir, i waso s right. right andam morally your orders are exactly what i just told you. for three weeks, and we got down to the field orders. it was an uncomfortable three weeks. i absolutely respect secretary rumsfeld, i thought he did the nation a great service. he is a friend.

now. [laughter] gen. pace: he was my boss. but he was also a good friend. he has been very supportive of me. i did not like being at odds with him. but, it was a choice of speaking truth to power in that case, which was him, that getting the message to the troops. over the course of time, i have had troops come up to me all , and say, iports was watching, and we appreciated that you made it clear to us for our responsibilities were. that is the only time i can vividly remember -- every other time, especially at that level time tonment, you have talk.

by the time you get to the white house, things have been through the three-star, four-star level. i was with the secretary of every day.rs if i didn't get my ideas on the table, shame on me. can answer your question -- did i answer your question? i have two questions. the first is what became of the sniper? and who made the decision for punishment or whatever was done with him? an enemy: it was sniper, and we never found him. combat and it was

an enemy sniper. i would've loved to find the guy. the secondve been thing i did run that day. -- wrong that day. sorry if i put you on the wrong track. >> you talked about stuff rolling downhill, but what about situations where you have command responsibility and someone under you that messes up and how you prepare against that, especially the higher in command you get? gen. pace: i don't care who you are or where you are and what you're doing, but excuse my --- is going to

happen. stuff is going to happen. it is how you handle it when it happens. had the marine airplane flying in italy underneath the cable car cables. it clipped the cable and killed 20 people. it was my plane. forces atlantic. i was in virginia. we have sin that plane from north carolina to europe and it was doing training missions, and they were joyriding, taking pictures, and they killed 20 people. it was my responsibility.

i was the first guy in the marine chain of command that owned the whole thing, because i owned them as a sender and a receiver. said, i the general and am calling to tell you this is happened. i have got it and i will not talk to you again until i am done. say, pace him up to has got it, and allowed me to do my investigations without influence from him. i called the commander of the marine corps and told him the same thing. it is one thing to say you have it in another to do it. we did a long investigation, i concluded that it was purposeful toligence, i send them

court-martial and they are found not guilty. but i did my part the way i should. in my own mind, i am thinking, did they say they didn't do it, you can convince yourself easily. but the correct route is a hard route. ,ack down to a much lower level if you are a squadron commander or something like that, things will go wrong. when things go wrong, if you are my subordinate and you come to me and say, hey boss, i kicked this one into the street, i am good with that. if you tell me the sun was in your eyes or it is thursday or

something, i have two problems, the problem we already have and the fact i can't trust you. stakes -- mistakes and your units mistakes. be very prompt in reporting bad news and then follow up until the situation has resolved. stuff is going to happen, and the difference between true, isd leaders and not so good how they react. does that answer your question? there.s someone up for the lower enlisted, what yoution can you offer when have seen the room with a bunch

of breathers, how can you irspectfully get the attention when you are ready been deemed untrustworthy? juniorce: you are a personnel with a bunch of seniors and you have a different opinion, and you think they don't trust you? >> yes. pretty much yes. gen. pace: i want to answer the question, i just did not quite follow. say you have been in that position before and you are deemed untrustworthy. e around, howxt tim can you get the command attention when you see they are in the room just breathing, they

are all in agreement, get their attention? thought that i people no longer trusted me, i would be devastated, and i could not sleep until i went and said something to somebody. i would go to my boss and say, i understand that i did this, i , i willg, i apologize and it that happen again, understand that you will be in the "show me" mode. time that i over can regain your trust, i know i lost it or these reasons. if you are in a room full of people and you know they don't say don't i would ignore the elephant in the room. you can say something like, it

seems to me like everybody is in agreement. i know my past actions have not made me the most popular guy or believable guy in the room. willtrying to fix that and , but i am seeing this old it differently right now, and here is what i am saying. own your responsibility. if i know that you know that you screwed up, i am ok. it is when i think you don't know or you have accepted -- have not accepted the responsibility of your actions that i am not ok. if you start out, either one-on-one with me or in a crowd , saying, i kicked it into the street before but i am working to regain your trust, i am listening to you better.

does that make sense? >> from virginia tech. is taking your leadership advice and training you might not know you need. at what point do you draw the line where you say, this is what i want as opposed to this is what i may need, sir? my point was, i didn't know i needed it until after i got it. [laughter] gen. pace: every single year, i spent four years active duty. i did not go off active duty and forget.

every year at christmas time i would sit down with a pad of paper and on one side output reasons to get out and reasons to stay. -- and on the other, reasons to stay. on the get outside, it was the part where i owed more than i could repay. i will owe them in till the day i die. -- until the day i die. when i wasn't happy with things, diedld say, these marines following your orders, suck it up and take it on. myself .4 hours to grouse about it.

but then strap it on like it is your own idea. spend 2-4 years, some people spend four years. only you can decide how long you will stay. if you find you are going through a job, you don't like it, get out. this is not conscription. marine coreof our to stay on active duty beyond four years. some people get out, they were great marines. they just get out. it will depend on how you feel about serving the country and the job you are doing and what you see coming up down the line. that is perfectly fair to put that in perspective and do what is correct for you. excepting the disappointments -- accepting the disappointments

and doing the best i could at the job i was given was the best for me given my experience in the anon. -- experienced me in vietnam. it just changed me forever. great, butdier was there were a lot of things i could do. we need captains of industry that used to be army captains. i can tell you for a fact. i have worked with a lot of corporate boards. you after four years in the army and getting out as a captain will know more about strategic planning. you are here, you want to be time, youcertain forward execute. you take that kind of idea into most companies in the united ,tates and people go, whoa

where did you get that? school at each level. most corporations cannot offend -- afford to send people to school like that. we have a system that is designed to support, and education system that supports our forces. that is a long story to tell you that if you were to decide to get out, the skills you bring from your military service will serve the country well by making our economy stronger and taking care of the families in that company, whether it is 100 people or 10,000 people. i need to get off the stage, but thank you all very much. [applause]

you're watching american history tv, all weekend, every weekend on c-span3. to join the conversation, like us on facebook. each week, american history america" brings you archival films give you context for today's issues. up next, a 1982 pbs documentary media in pennsylvania about regulation of air pollution in national parks. it details the process of turning general language into a 1977 amendment to specific regulations, revealing behind-the-scenes negotiations