this 50 minute event is hosted by the virginia historical society in richmond. >> in march, 1921, major john g cornell and his group were detailed to italy to review a new airship for the u.s. army air service. stationed at langley field and hampton, the roma never lived up to expectations, despite being heralded as the future of military innovation. it crashed on february 21, 1922, in norfolk, claiming the lives of most of the men of board. today's speaker will reveal details and never before published imagery of the forgotten tragedy of one of the last great airships, and those who sacrificed for the promise of a new era in aviation. nancy shepherd is a writer and historian of her native hampton roads, virginia.

her main interest is the history of hampton roads from 1890 to the present. after publishing short online history pieces, she has devoted her research and writing over the last four years telling the story of the roma and her crew. we join me in giving a warm dhs welcome to make the shepherd. [applause] >> thank you for that warm introduction. i would like to thank the virginia historical society for having me, and c-span for coming out here and taping. very exciting. as andy said, my name is nancy e. shepherd. i am a author from hampton roads. this has been my project for the last five years.

to tell you about roma to get started, this is a forgotten piece of our printing your -- virginia history. it was the deadliest disaster of a u.s. hydrogen airship, one long forgotten. it has been my honor to bring it to the world and to you today. so, i will take you back to 1921. this was a time of innovation, prosperity, hope for our new future. we had survived world war i, the spanish flu epidemic. everyone wanted to leave behind all of that ugliness, i guess you could say, and move forward. they were looking for new inventions, ways to go about doing day-to-day life, making the world a proverbial, smaller place. this is a postcard from that.

from my hometown, norfolk. back during world war i, germany proved the invaluable solidity of these airships. they had massive, rigid framed ships, which, while they committed limited image, created a sense of psychological or -- warfare. unlike their airplane counterparts, they were less fragile. they could carry -- they could go higher, faster, and seemed to be more practical. to give you an idea of how fragile these heavier than air airplanes were, the army air service only had 2200 serviceable planes at -- 10,000 after our short. time in world war i. needless to say, instead of

looking at bats as a way to move forward, the united states desperately wanted to get in on the lighter than air technology. the u.s. navy was charged with their rigid ships. to give you an idea of what this -- a rigid ship was, the hindenburg. these were ships that were massive, they were 1000, sometimes larger, feet long. they had a skeletal structure inside the guest bag right here. and, they were based off the zeppelin corporation in germany. not wanting to be outdone by the u.s. navy, brigadier general billy mitchell petitioned the war department to have a large ship for the army. he wanted it for training purposes, but really to work on reconnaissance. after the u.s. navy passed on a semirigid ship, secondhand shipping from italy, the war

department approved the army to go ahead and purchase it. so, they gathered the best and brightest of the our mayors are -- that's the army air service had to offer, and they were to come together to go to italy, inspect the ship, and bring it back to the united states. this is the commanding officer, major john g thorne l and his unfortunate mustache. [laughter] this is the second command, anyone who has been to tampa might be familiar with his name. this is lieutenant walter j reed, not the same as the read we think of usually come and not related. these of the crewmen. this is master sergeant roger mcnally. he was serving for the department of the interior in alaska when we entered into world war i. he decided to walk all the way

to seward to enlist. he was older than the other man -- man, but was the most trusted. this is master sergeant harry chapman, master sergeant marion , one of the first men in his county in missouri to enlist to serve during world war i. this is sergeant virgil hoffman of michigan. this is sergeant joseph b to the only one who did not serve during world war i. so he was young, he was definitely a trusted and gifted engineer. major john g thornell, he was at the bottom of his class at west point and went into the infantry. during world war i, he found his niche in lighter than air, where he showed his most promise. he was a natural pick to be commanding officer of this grand

gem of the army air service. this is lieutenant walter j reed. he had gotten out of the army. they called him and said hey, we want you to, and help us pick up this new airship. he said all right, maybe. he called his girlfriend, maria claxton of hampton and said, do you want to get married? i'm going to italy, this would be a great opportunity for a honeymoon. [laughter] she said yes. [laughter] they got married. this was the day before leaving for italy. a captain served as his best man, they were best friends, polar opposites in personality. the captain was a confident bachelor and was a ladies man around town. so, they got married and sailed with the other men over to italy. this is sergeant virgil hoffman of eden rapids, michigan. he was called into the air

service after getting out out of the war and said, i will only go back if you send me to langley field, he was in love with this young woman, stella. they said ok and sent them back to langley, the two were soon engaged. that is her engagement ring. they were young, in love, planning a wedding for the following year. to speak a little about roma, she was built in 1919. she was originally supposed to be built before world war i, but they had to find another purpose. they wanted to use her as a transatlantic vessel between rome and rio de janeiro. as they were looking at airships, taking the place of large ocean liners for transportation. that never came to be. she was generally used for sightseeing purposes. the italians were very anxious to unload her.

when the americans got there, the italians only agreed to one flight. that day was a bit of a party. this is one of the engineers. on board that day was the italian american ambassador to italy, also the prince of denmark was there and his regalia and his entourage. maria freed was there with her husband. the wheel of the ship was often left unattended, anyone who wanted to fly it could. [laughter] and they had alcohol and wine flowing freely. keep in mind, this was during prohibition. they were serving elaborate three-course meals. i like to say it was more of a spectacle than inspection. this gentleman is kenneth roberts, a prominent journalist

at the time. this is during that inspection flight. he wrote that it had a prisoner field. after stumbling off in a drunken stupor -- i have to help myself, i -- i got ahead of myself, i apologize. they were originally supposed to fly over mount vesuvius. they did not notice when the ship. to decide, because it could not get the lift from the hydrogen they needed to get over the cold air. they were speaking about the dangers of hydrogen, but one of the men on board was like, i i could light cigar right here and the ship would be fine. [laughter] anyway, back to what i was saying a few moments ago. the major thorne l stumbled off the ship. it was a drunken stupor like i said. he wrote back to his superiors, i am most impressed with the semi rigid of airship and believe it has great

possibilities. the blimp, which was a much smaller ship, did not have a frame. it was an experiment type of aircraft. this is a copy of one of the original contracts to purchase roma. the italians originally asked for $475,000, but they readily agreed to a purchase price of $184,000. [laughter] major thorne l wrote to his superiors. she was supposed to be for trans atlantic passage. they wrote back, packer of -- pack it up. he said ok, this ship is a few years old, we need a new airbag on the outside of the airship. it was a few years old, made from a silk-cotton blends that could only be produced in italy

and needed a six-month leadtime. the war department said this will be fine. they packed up roma and sent her on her way back, home to langley field. in the meantime and 90 -- 1921 was the first time the united states started witnessing the dangers of hydrogen in these airships most prominently with the r 38, picture here. this was a rigid airship. you can see the outline of the skeleton frame. the r 38 was built by the british on zeppelin plants -- plans for the united states navy. we had not accepted it yet. at this time, we had airmen over there. the ship broke in half. the saying was, oxygen got into these gas bags mix with hydrogen and exploded.

only five of the 49 men on board survived. a lieutenant, a public affairs officer serving on the ground, accompanied the remains of his sailors back. he swore that no one would die because of hydrogen at again. roma arrived to langley on august of 1921. anyone who has ever been to my wonderful that is a time of your temperature wise, and humidity was. that was covered in holes, mildew. can we have a new bank, they asked. we need a new one. this one will not last.

the war department said patchett. it goes to the hangar log, there are thousands of patches that they put on his back. needless to say, some of the men felt uncomfortable with this ship. in the meantime, we have more crewmen join the ship. this gentleman is lieutenant byron siebert junior. i am not sure whether he was a lucky man to have on board, considering he survived three lighter than air disasters before this. he was a gifted engineer and understood the way these ships functions, the physics, especially of this experiment of craft that we had never touched before. this is him standing with captain maybury. we also have several of these men, a corporal, who met -- came here from puerto rico, a very trusted, gifted, jovial man to have on board. everyone loved him.

signs were posted outside of the hangar, warning people, do not smoke, do not light lighters, right here, and right here. men's shoes checked for tacks and nails to avoid sparks in the concrete, because hydrogen was a volatile. they did not want to tell anyone that. they had a great deal of trouble maintaining hydrogen purity inside the bags. what's that meant was they needed to maintain a certain amount of hydrogen to oxygen ratio to make sure that the hydrogen would not become unstable. like i said, they had a great deal of difficulties. roma on the inside was divided into 11 compartment's. the first compartment had particular troubles. they kept patching. finally got in regulation of

hydrogen. she was finished, a scheduled flight was november 15, 1921. despite hesitation inside the hangar, the world was starting to get to know roma through newsreels, everyone was excited. they were helping her the grand eagle of the american air. on the day of the flights, people gathered in, the estimated 1000 people came in from hampton roads with reporters, loved ones, the crew, to see roma go up for the first time. it was truly an exciting moment. this is the day of that flight. everyone was gathered holding their breath wondering what she would do?

you can see a great deal of people there. men were out on scaffolding's for the engines. they were italian made. they tended to run oil leaks. roma lifted perfectly. major thorne l radioed down, how do we look? the radio men said, magnificent. great cheer arrested throughout the ship. they were ready to fly roaming here for the first time. the part that the engineer, as a side note, did not trust with this rudder. they called it was something different. it was not like anything they had used before, it was rather bulky on the back. this is her flying over langley. you can see the hangar in the in background.

sergeant jethro bell had a great deal of trouble with his engine. these were made to run oil, they were made for a southern italian climate, not our variations here in virginia. it kept freezing in the november weather. he kept having to boil -- pour boiling water on top of it. the engineers were not happy with their engines. about 11:00am, an aluminum door broke off and slammed into a propeller blade. it shattered, and tore holes in the bank. knowing this could be a catastrophe, sergeant lee harris jumped into action. he gathered two other men, climbed into the back and patched it, -- until he and the other men passed out from inhaling the hydrogen. they saved the ship, and all three men were safe. despite the accident and issues of the engine, this flight was

hailed a success. the men, in the meantime, crewmen in particular, very, very scared. jethro bell formed was called, the graveyards club. these were men trying to be transferred off. these are the best and brightest they had. he would write to his friends and say, the ship is going down one day and everyone will be killed. some men were like, the ship is fine, we will be good. in the meantime, clifford tinker, mentioned earlier, got out of the navy and started writing and talking to everyone who would listen: we need to use helium, it is a heavier gas but it is safe. to indulge him, they agreed to

flight a c7 , a smaller blood, on test runs using helium from norfolk to washington, d.c. and back. the c7 proved that helium not only had the advantage flight twice, but it was a fiscal advantage for the long-term. she did not expand or contract like hydrogen tended to do, and she had no loss of gas, which hydrogen tended to leak because it is so thick. aerial age weekly, a popular journal at the time, cannot and -- even said, summed up it can him be said that the use of helium as a gas for inhalation of airships has been demonstrated beyond a doubt. the helium plant at fort worth, texas, was closed quietly. clifford tinker went to meijer percy, and came up with a sum for $40,000 to move helium from fort worth to language to fly roma. meijer told tinker, we do not have the money, hydrogen will

have to do. december 21, 1921, the day of the christening ceremony. it was a cold, windy day. roma flew into boeing field washington, d.c., with only three of six working engines. she is shimmying back-and-forth. the reason why the other three engines stopped was because of how oily they were. she kept freezing up, they could not get them restarted. one of the working engines had to be restarted midair. needless to say, this was quite a sight to see her coming in, and it was a great deal of trouble to get her to the ground. i do not know if you can see, but you will and a second, that there was something ironic that happened with the flag.

the ceremony was cut short. they sent a skeleton -- skeleton crew on roma back home. we see they are dropping ropes down to the ground to attempt to pull her down. teddy roosevelt junior was there. the ambassador from italy was there, they had secretary of the war department. wainwright, the sponsor of the ship, broke a bottle of liquid oxygen against the whole. [laughter] so, yeah. [laughter] midway through the ceremony, the roma rolled onto its side. [laughter] it caused more damage. they had to catch her up again before leaving. ironically, one of the halyards broke and the flag was hanging upside down. you cannot write fiction this well. so, they sent roma back to

langley that evening, and she arrived on only one engine. finally, the attention was diverted from the issues with the back and hydrogen, to the engines. they had to replace these. they agreed to put the liberty beach balls engines on ford, they were faster but later, but once the men were familiar with. they went out to dayton, ohio, and had the engines made. major thornell received orders to go to washington, d.c. he said, please let me fly roma one more time as an observer, the war department agreed. captain avery was promoted to commanding officer, potential read was promoted to captain and second-in-command. a new bag was ordered finally, but it took -- it took a six-month leadtime, so they said, roma still will fly, we will not lose the money we put

into the ship. a test flight for the new engine was scheduled for february 21, 1922. in the meantime, the engineers from dayton, ohio came, civilians. along with a physicist with the bureau of standards, they want to test how fast they blew these new engines. the fastest she had ever traveled was 54 miles per hour. the night before the flight on february 20, 1922, a dance was held at the officers club in langley. it was a great kind of firtash -- it was a great time to regale and be together. students would go on board as observers. captain reed was not there that night, because he was suffering from the flu, and his wife made him stay home.

the next day, february 1, 1922, was a cold day. they were uncertain whether they would go up that day. after preparing the ship in the morning, captain maybury sent everyone off to get lunch. crewing member of the turned to one of his friends, a nonflying crewmember and said, if something happens to me, you take me home. it was supposed to be a joke. captain maybury called everyone to the hangar, and captain reed arrived against her wife's -- against his wife's protests. it was so last-minute that the mascot dog was left behind in the hangar. upon pulling the ship out of the hangar that day, one of the grounds crew -- a triangular silvery patch flying off the top and into the front of him.

captain maybury orders everyone to the back of the ship, for everything you can back there, we need to gain horizontal equilibrium. corporal alberto florez was here in the crows nest sticking his head out, measuring how taunt the bag was. eventually, they were able to gain horizontal equilibrium they needed. everyone breathed a sigh of relief. however, master sergeant harry chapman, who was in charge of monitoring the gauges the hydrogen purity,trouble in compartment one, right here, and compartment 11. walter bring their commented how the ship was moving surprisingly

fast. 75 miles per hour. she was definitely moving at least that speed. captain reed and lieutenant burton were moving surprisingly sensitive than they were used to. major thornell took this as a note of good luck and commented to captain maybury, these engines are the stuff. reed became overcome with flu symptoms and asked someone to take over him. captain reed escaped to the passenger cabin. going over the river between old point comfort at fort monroe, to the south side of hampton roads, corporal flores pokes his head out of the crows nest right there, and notices that the ship is losing pressure, it is soft. even the slightest bit could cause the ship to lose structural integrity. as we saw with the r 38, we do

not want that to happen. he tries to climb down to the ship to get down to warn everyone in the cabins. he could not get past, it was pinched. the tunnel was in passable. he was stuck up there at the nose of the ship. in the meantime, the lieutenant starts pulling his elevator control ropes, turning the wheel. they were moving freely in his hands. he lost control of the ship. he turns to captain maybury, captain, she will not respond. maybury ordered everyone to throw everything they could over the ship, to make it lighter. they had to lighten the load. he ordered the engines cut, and only the center, and other engines were cut, for reasons we do not know, the forward engines were still running.

it became very obvious by this point, because she was barreling quickly to the ground, that it was not about saving the ship, it was about saving themselves . , the quartermaster along the river, everyone was rushing to the aid. they knew something was about to happen. they knew they had to cut off the base -- the electricity on the base of the telephone wires. everyone in the passenger cabin begins panicking. they are hugging each other, praying, crying. lieutenant riley, an observer on the ship, is so filled with panic and madness, he climbs towards the door before anyone could stop him and jumps. the last words anyone hears before the ship touches the ground is captain maybury

calling out, my god, boys. the moment the tip the front of the ship touched the ground, he jumped and ran. he ran and ran. he did not stop until someone caught him and a tremendous explosion behind him. the rudder graced the telephone wire, ignited the hydrogen inside the bag, already volatile, and the ship exploded. anyone who had not gotten out before the explosion, did not. eyewitnesses on the ground called seeing vestiges in these great -- claims screaming mercy, o mercy, before disappearing. on a road nearby laid the body of lieutenant riley.

the ship was not high enough for his parachute to fully open. the survivors were rushed to a nearby hospital. maria reed quickly got word about her husband's ship and insisted on being rushed over, she had to find him, was he ok? she found in the public health hospital. she sat with her husband and other men that were there, when a newspaper reporter wanted it -- -- wandered in. one of the men asked him, what about the other boys? the reporter had the duty of telling them that they were the only ones to survive. only 11 men out of the 45 men survived that day. only 11. back at the scene, it was obvious to those on the ground that this was a recovery effort, not a rescue. men were being called from the wreckage, and anything they could find on them they pinned to them to help identify.

coins, insignias, name bracelets, anything. last man to be pulled from the wreckage right here, was still clutching a control wheel. lieutenant burton, who was thrown from the ship upon impact, was relatively unscathed. he returned to the scene. this particular picture is haunting. he could not believe these were his brothers, the men he served with, survived with in world war i, that he was just in the air moments before, and they were gone. how could this happen? the victims were taken for identification. dr. jesse maybury, the older brother of captain maybury met enem in their -- met the m

there. the images of that night stayed with him for the rest of his life. stella hoover waited patiently at langley field for word of her fiance. this is the man she was head over heels in love with. the dead were identified. they included major john g thornell, sergeant virgil hoffman, sergeant jeffrey bell, -- jethro bell. and the last man to be identified, holding the control wheel, captain dale maybury. he never left his post. captain william kepner had the unfortunate duty of helping the bereaved families as they arrived to pick up the remains of the loved onesir.

-- loved ones. one father asked, are you sure it is my son, he is a scar on his pelvis. the captain said to him, i assure you this is your son. the father said, did you see the scar? he had to inform this father that his son's pelvis was missing. the men posed for photos for the newspaper but were told they were not allowed to speak to newspapers or anyone about what happened. we see corporal flores, and the sergeant at the hospital. two men were in particularly tough condition. it was uncertain whether they would survive. the question was, what caused these deaths?

it was apparent that some died in the fire. but what caused the fire? this is a direct quote: i'm sure the ship would not have burned so quickly, and great number of men could have been saved, and an attempt could have been made to save the others. this meant that what was behind their deaths was hydrogen. an elaborate memorial service was held on february 24, 19 22. s arrivedngton rifle and played a death march. they gave a procession for the men.

two bodies were chosen, that of captain maybury and private johnny thompson, to represent the 34 men that died. private thompson was chosen because this was the only body that went unclaimed. people lined the streets as you can see here, crying, hugging each other as if this were their own brother or husband or father. or loved one. at the casino grounds, the mascot dog was on hand, and, effigies were given to these men. they talked about putting up grand memorials that would never be forgotten. roses are spread from the sky by friends of the fallen. in the months that followed, should they end the lighter than air program altogether? or should they continue using

hydrogen, and this was an unfortunate accident? short story is, they agreed on a compromise. the lighter than air program would continue, but using helium. a congressional inquiry was held years later to look into roma's disaster and subsequent disasters of other, larger ships. it came to light that in the end of the fiscal year of 1922, which back then was june of 1922, the war department returned a surplus to the treasury of $6.5 million. of that, on $.3 million was supposed to be used for transportation of supplies -- $1.3 million was supposed to be used for other sports. forour other service --

other service. they negligently chose not to do it. at a cost of approximately $412 per life lost that day, this was an embarrassment to the government. the story was hidden and buried with her victims. as for the survivors, mr. harry chapmangeant probably suffered the worst. he dove back into the fire three times in an attempt to save his shipmates. in 1940, he died due to damage on his lungs from what he experienced that day in 1922. he was the last victim of roma. charles who also was the one in the hospital the longest,

from this dramatic stress disorder. traumatic stress disorder. the last survivor, master sergeant alberto flores, passed away in 1988. he would often regale loved ones with stories of his time on lighter than air ships, and always go up to the vfw and talk about them. he never flew on one after roma. there was no grand memorial placed for the men. when the quartermaster depot was shut down and the norfolk international terminals -- the men pulled their money together and put together this small limestone monument. it is locked behind a gate on private property.

i had to have an armed escort to go see it. it is completely inaccessible from the public and not in the best condition. however, this does have a happy ending, sort of, as of recently. throughout this process of researching roma, i have had the privilege of getting to know some of the loved ones and family members of the crew of roma. we have been able to share stories, get to know each other, and get to know those aboard that day. as a result, we have been able to pull funding together to install a historic highway marker. just last night, i was told the city of norfolk, that they will write a letter to improve -- a -- approval location and maintenance of it. that has been a wonderful ending for these men that ever received

any sort of public recognition for their service and sacrifice that day. if you have the honor of going to langley, they have one section so called, the lpa section to honor roma. several streets are named for roma and her crew. the hanger is no longer there, but you can see the outline of the field. their memory lives on. it has been my honor over the five years i have been working on roma to breathe life back into their story, and bring their lives to you. and, no longer let their sacrifices be in vain. thank you. [applause]

questions? >> interesting talk about a little-known events. the roma was starcrossed. you talk about it flying up to 54 miles per hour. how high can these airships go, and how did one ever land? questions.t the zeppelin ships could travel several thousand feet in the air, which is what made them relatively impenetrable during world war i. roma itself could fly about a thousand feet. on the day of the crash, it was 700 feet. the way they came down, as they had a series of gauges inside the ship, where they would release hydrogen and slowly let oxygen and at safe levels. because the oxygen is heavier than the hydrogen, she would slowly come to the ground.

that alone would totally do because they needed hydrogen in the ship. when they got closer, they would drop sand and water, or ropes for the ground crew to pull her down. >> other questions? nancy: right there in the middle. >> you mentioned that the army after this disaster went from hydrogen to helium. i believe 15 years later when the hindenburg -- crashed, that was still hydrogen. do you have a theory to why, first of all the germans kept using hydrogen, and while we -- and why we allowed it to be used on flights coming into this country? that is a

question. the germans maintained their ships better than we did. they did not have the same leaking problems that we had. they did not have nearly as many accidents or issues that we did. you are correct on the hydrogen. again, it came back to, they had better maintenance than we did. >> i had heard a story, in that era there was an airship by the name of shenandoah, that disappeared without a trace out in ohio, and they never found the remains of it. did you find anything about that in years research -- in your research? nancy: that has an interesting type to roma. captain reed, second commander of roma, was instrumental in the construction of shenandoah.

yes, she was one of those disasters that happened several years after roma that may be -- made the congressional inquiry come to light about what should we do about these lighter than air programs. we need to develop heavier than air technology because this is just not a practical solution anymore. so, a little bit, but not terribly much. >> you mentioned that you needed an armed guard to visit the memorial. can you say more about that? nancy: yes, i contacted virginia port authority, in charge of the policing of international terminals. the monument is on the grounds of what is called, the probably -- house, which sits directly adjacent to the terminals on hampton boulevard and terminal boulevard. i contacted the port authority directly, explained i am a historian doing research on the subject, i would love to come in, photograph the stone, to monument rubbings on it. i met with my escort, and was

given a limited time to go down there. i am not endorsing this, but there was one day that i was down there last year, and one of the family members of one of the survivors was with me visiting. the gate just happened to be open, so we were able to sneak back there -- very clandestinely and see it. i do not endorse this, so. [laughter] basically if you want to see it, that is what you have to do. fortunately, we are in very, very infantile stages of discussing having the monument moved somewhere more public. any other questions? >> in regards to your situation with the germans having only hydrogen, my understanding is they did not get helium until we -- because we would not sell it to them. nancy: bingo. [laughter] that is very true. we were stingy with our helium, to the point, the canadians had more helium available. after roma they said, we would have shared our healing with

you. canadians are so nice. [laughter] so, because of the ongoing tensions after world war i, we withheld our helium, even though we had a very tenuous relationship with them up until we entered world war ii. so yeah, we were holding onto it as part of the isolationist thing we were doing at the time. >> second point i would mention, these are ships were so large, the macon, the akron, they carried aircraft inside, and had daring pilots. the aircraft would be lowered on a hook. the engines would be started, and the hook would be released and the client -- pilots would fly off.

then they would be recovered by -- they had a ring on top of the aircraft, and the pilots would fly up and be hooked on the hook and hold it back up inside these gigantic airships. it is an amazing technology. nancy: it really is. there was an admiral in the early 1920's in the navy who said, these will replace air cap -- aircraft carriers one day, these are the way of the future. it is absolutely amazing -- thousand feet in the air into this cockpit and fly these fragile planes than try to hook it back on. the zeppelins themselves, they looked similar to the inside of a navy ship or cruise liners. these were the wave of the future. today, lockheed martin has a hybrid airship.

it can transport large pieces of equipment into war zones. it is more practical, cheaper. that is the way we are coming back to airships again in this day and age. so, thank you. >> that i hear you say in the beginning of your lecture that the military considered the rigid ships faster than heavier than air aircraft? nancy: yes, they were significantly faster. they ran with several stronger engines. the big point was, they could go further and higher and carry more people. i do not know if i mentioned the statistics, i think i did. they can go faster, but it was more so for the transportation of goods.

they could go higher so it was a great reconnaissance situation. thank you. [applause] >> it appears that three of the men in the picture up here have parachutes on. nancy: yes. >> did all the soldiers in the airship, where they required to wear parachutes? nancy: excellent question. it is funny, because they always had ill fitting parachutes. they said had it been a navy ship, they would've had good fitting parachutes. [laughter] it was more so of a comfort thing. the engineers who went out on the scaffolding to work on the engines were not allowed to wear parachutes, because had a parachutes opened midair and got caught in the engine, that would be a catastrophe. while they were wearing

parachutes, they were for psychological comfort in the end. nancy: great question, he is an interesting character. his feeling was that it was going too fast and too low. snapped andcables they lost control. because of the air differentiation on the inside, it was a cluster of bad situations happening. he went on to design two more ships. the norge is the first aircraft to fly over the north pole. he got a bit cocky and built the

italia. i will not only fly over the north pole, i will land on it in my airship. they get close to the north pole, and the bottom of the ship splits from the top. the men at the top fly away, never to be seen again. the rest of them land on the ground and were eventually rescued. there is a russian film about this situation. the regime in the late 1920's italy, were not very happy by this, and they kicked them out. he had a few issues with airships in the soviet union, so the soviets kicked him out. and then we got him. he was married to this semirigid technology, though it continued to be experimental. thank you. any other questions? i want to share something with you that i was -- i was loaned

to share with everyone by a loved one. clap for my beautiful daughter . [applause] as we said earlier the master sergeant was the last survivor. when he passed away in 1988, he was buried in illinois. his niece shared with me his burial flags. to share with all of you. to bring him together with the rest of us. i would like to thank you again for having me today, and i look forward to speaking with you again. [applause]

>> you are watching american history tv, all weekend, every weekend on c-span 3. to join the conversation, like us on facebook. pioneer inale radio the 1940's and 1950's. known for her conversational interview style, she created a magazine format that is still used today. she also exports how mcbride -- explores how mcbride was negatively stereotyped by some of her critics. this 55 minute program was recorded at the library of