more than 4 million american men and women served in uniform and more than 100,000 died. that is on american history tv come on c-span3. -- >> historian william will ofmine the legacies presidents. their conversation focuses on professor luxembourg's book -- the american president. the new york historical society hosted this hour-long event. tonight's program, the ierican president part two, would like to thank bernard schwartz for making this lecture possible. along with all of the other

programs that he supports. i like to think and recognize two of our guests. you for all you do on behalf of this great institution. thank you so much. program lasts about an hour and it will include a question -- answer session. you should have received notecards as you enter the auditorium. -- step isnot, stats still going through the seats, the aisles with notecards and questions will be -- your notecards will be collected later on in the program. following the program, there will be a normal book signing and books will be available for purchase in our history store. we are delighted to welcome william e luxenberg.

he has taught as numerous universities over the course of six decades. including columbia and oxford universities. he served as presidential elections analyst for nbc and his presidential -- -- he was the first recipient of distinguished writing in american history of enduring public significance. he is the author of 16 books including the american president , from teddy roosevelt to bill clinton. he is the author of many books including lincoln and the power of the press. he is the winner of the lincoln

harvard's kennedy school of government. in 2008, he was awarded the national humanities medal by president george bush. as always, before we begin, i would like to ask that you make sure that anything that makes noise like a cell phone is switched off. these join me in welcoming our guests. thank you. [applause] >> good evening, i want to apologize to all the doug brinkley fans who are here for not being doug brinkley. i will not apologize or express any regret for this opportunity to engage in another conversation, public or private.

we have so much to cover. i guess, a century. herew that you guys were for part one at the historical society. forgive me if i start at the beginning of the century. its book, as you described was the capstone of a lifetime of interest in the presidency. i want to say that that may be the understatement of the century. he has done more than any historian in shaping our understanding of the presidency -- all of its possibilities and limits. i know that you will agree that obligedever felt more to study the past for the

present. let's see if we can spend a few moments on the things that you cover. if we can, let's start with the man who started this entry. a combination of st. vitus and st. paul. pure as the secretary of state? abraham lincoln's private sector -- secretary? >> he was an extraordinarily thoughtful man. a man who wrote a great number of books. an amazing number of letters in the course of his lifetime. he fascinated men and women around the world. .e was a great deal more

he had an enormous impact on the institution of the presidency i explain in one point of the book that i wrote the blood sentence -- -- blunt sentence -- presidency as we know it today was created by brickley d roosevelt -- franklin d. roosevelt. learned i read and about theodore roosevelt the more i became convinced that that is where the modern presidency begins. how the considers american presidency was in the late 19th century and how -- howl and opposite was

powerful and opposite was -- an office it was. sense of a major change in history that we had ever seen in this country before. successor.icked his jolly you to discuss the william howard taft. if you could finish by telling us, aside from personal ambition, why teddy was so disappointed in his successor? >> i think he would have been disappointed in any successor. tohad to surrender power him. he greatly admired taft. ofhad served in a number important public offices.

fellowhow the progresses. who shared his outlook on foreign affairs. he found out that is not what happened. he seemed to be a more conservative man that he had imagined. he didn't infuse the office with the energy that tr had inspirited it with. was of this criticism unfair. some of the most important progressive steps of the early 20th century occurred under william howard taft. yield to the

conservative wing of the republican party in the senate. particularly, -- thatted in a way encouraged the opponents of a strong environmental policy and who wasteddy roosevelt in europe and kept hearing tales from past critics. also -- taft made the gross mistake of questioning something

roosevelt had done. i think cap was right about this -- taft was right about this. cross ounwise to theodore roosevelt. harold: he was a young man at the time. professor leuchtenburg: he was indeed. they disagreed on foreign policy. there was never a more warrior like figure in the white house than theodore roosevelt. taft promoted arbitration agreements. the peaceful resolution of disputes abroad. taft ran for reelection on the republican ticket, roosevelt

ran on a minor party ticket -- the progressive ticket they had such a falling out. they call each other names such as fat head. professor leuchtenburg: we won't ask you. >> this is the election that gives us the primary system. one of the joys and itvels of this book is that not only reverberates what this astonishing story has in knowledge that you have. pithves us the series of y, descriptive statements that make you set up and take notice about what people felt about the president at any given time. the phrase that struck me about

woodrow wilson that follows taf t, he was called the american interests -- icarus. he flew too high and got his wings burned. failing his ambition for lopez? -- world peace? they tried unsuccessfully to create an international peace. professor leuchtenburg: when i went to school, woodrow wilson was the hero of all of the teachers. the league of nations, the great institution in geneva that the united states should have joined. , he has a different reputation. particularly as a racist, unhappily, he was.

it is often thought that the reason that there was segregation in washington d.c. is because it was a southern city. wasact, segregation deliberately introduced by and thewilson southerners in the cabinet who him.ought an -- in with ofre is a decided range views. i think that if one were to point to more positive aspects,

there is a very serious negative one. it would be the creation of the federal reserve system. ofer the child labor act 1916 there was economic mobilization, world war i. that laid the basis for the new deal in the 1930's. the effort he did make for the league of nations. i don't think we see that the aroma terms -- heroic terms that my teachers saw it in. it was certainly the forerunner of the united nations.

it was an aspiration that still seems admirable. harold: among other innovations, the first president to put up a fight for the supreme court justice. a lot of modern presidential precedents set by woodrow wilson. if youor leuchtenburg: say that in reverse order, we take it for granted that presidents deliver state of the union addresses. that was done initially and then thomas jefferson thought that it was too much like the speech of the king from the throne. he thought this was an

unfortunate federalist left over. 1913s woodrow wilson in who for the first time in more than a century reintroduced the idea of appearing before congress and delivering the state of the union address. on your first point, yes, wilson supreme fought for court justices, the one he bought for was louis brandeis. he was proposed for a number of reasons. brandeis was an important cian foron -- theoroti wilson's new freedom.

it provided the basic philosophy for wilson's economic programs. later, it had a considerable influence on the new wing of new deal thoughts in the 1930's. he was able to take the fight of getting the confirmation of brandeis to court. harold: you said in the book that the day of giants past for a while. you had some fascinating things to say about harding. i marveled at that because you he deservesat credit and has not received it for being pro-civil liberties.

he was anti-lynching. florence harding who has -- shed to be reputation was actually an enlightened first lady. what motivated you to reassess harding? professor leuchtenburg: i would be misreading leaders -- readers...ng what is true is that the end of the wilson presidency was a miserable time in american life after wilson has a stroke -- he is an isolated figure in the

white house. newhardings bring a openness to american society. institution of the presidency. harding doesn't usually come across very well. she said that the american people paid for this white house, why shouldn't they be able to look in? the blinds. debs -- the socialist leader was sent to prison under wilson. subsequently, a document was

tohed before wilson for -- free debs from the penitentiary. w.scrolled w. frding granted debs' reedom and signed earlier than expected because he said he wanted them to be able to have christmas dinner with his wife. debs come in to see him. he didn't want this to be a routine action. when debs enters the oval office, harding balance out of his chair -- bounds out of his chair, so excited for the

to be able to talk to mr. debs. was a littlearding different from the unhappily .orrupt conservative president a man who is just as bad as we always thought he was. he inhabits the other pages of my treatment of harding. harold: you give him some humanity in the book. the incidence -- the incident is so out of character from the harding that we know. there is a wonderful story about coolidge. he used to county cars that went by to occupy himself. hoover as aibed

humanitarian. professor leuchtenburg: i should there was aver -- lady that i greatly admired. my main assessment of coolidge would not be his economic policies but how badly he treated his wife who didn't deserve it. somehow, he managed to survive. she was a teacher in the clark school for the deaf. her that she couldn't smoke, what she had to wear. he was brutish. she did not want to cause difficulty in her marriage.

she gathered reporters around her and spoke in sign language. harold: you devote the most pages to franklin roosevelt. century'sim as the giant. service? -- length of service? is it the two crises that he faced? every so leuchtenburg: often, historians get a call from the new york times, time

theto rankking american presidents. in the early 1980's. havef these polls resulted in the same rankings presidents ranked as great, near great, below average and failure. only three presidents have been great.as george washington, abraham lincoln, and franklin delano roosevelt.

lincoln -- harold is one of the leading authorities on the lincoln presidency. it is always first. moved into second place in the more recent polls. hardlying him there was an original contribution. it is the consensus of the his torical guild. is onetball question out.can't be separated the answer to why he is right so highly is because he was in office longer than any other

president has been. it is highly likely that it will be longer than any ever will be because of the two-term rule. act was called a posthumous of vengeance against fdr. nobody in all of the annals of the presidency will ever have served as long as fdr did. , the spirit with which he carried the country through the great depression, the reforms of the new deal, sections of the social security 1935, his leadership in

the war against taylor -- hitler and the successful resolution of that war and with the creation of the united nations. it is a powerful list of things that fdr did. that is only a few of them. harold: you stress two alliterative intangibles. you stress how much that impacted american anxieties in both the depression and the war. professor leuchtenburg: my good published aleague book a couple of years ago on shirley temple.

he says that it will shirley temple and fdr that got the country through the depression. -- someone said about fdr that he must have been d because he seemed so fearless and imbued the country with a kind of confidence. that whenold a story andrew jackson was dying, someone asked if he was going to heaven. the answer was he will if he wants to. if i am asked if this country

will get through the great itression, my answer is, will if it wants to. it was freedom through fear. the self-confidence to imbue others with confidence. given the terrible circumstances with which he took office in march of 1933, that is a very important part. and the other part is the communications -- >> and the other part is the communications part. the fireside chat, just a few days after the election. was broadcast on the radio andded as violently

vociferously as twitter feeds are today. it was considered unprecedented, undignified, and it made the asple think he was different he addressed them. so communication was a very important part of it. william: very important. he started the free end open press conference. press conferences of the the, with the presidents of 1920's carried the stipulation that questions had to be submitted and advance, a little bit like tonight. [laughter] william: and at the and of the free end open first press conference, reporters could not

believe it. down their notepads and pencils and broke out in applause. and the other aspect of it was you were saying about the newside chats, the was aion of the radio great boon to presidents but they treated the microphone the way they treated speaking and a and boomedre hall out speeches. roosevelt understood that there were individuals in the families sitting at radio sets around the the firstd in

fireside chat, which was on the banking crisis of 1933, he said --"r friends, my friends, and then conversationally he said, i am going to speak tonight about the american -- to the american people. the situation.d one commentator said that he explained it soak clearly that [indiscernible] -- [laughter] harold: you mentioned shirley temple. surely, people like him and franklin roosevelt understood it intimately a hand people got the impression that he was on the air constantly, but in fact fewe were remarkably

fireside chats in his 12 years but the lebron once wrote that a a young man in new work, on hot summer day he would walk down the street to a friends house and because of all the could hear anhe entire fireside chat down the street. a wonderful invocation of the impact of that voice. so, i know we are skipping around but let's keep pressing ahead. you are among those who say -- people say was called the "missouri compromise" in his undervalued, under estimated. unequivocally a fan of truman, you point out a lot of his failures and successes. exceed expectations

in following a giant and where do you find the lapses? william: if you take a look at what he did in civil rights, that would strike me the most. only white on the field staff of a civil rights organization when truman was president and i sat in the center galleries when our legislation went down to defeat. it was a desperate time. and african american soldier who came back from overseas and wanted to show his family the sleeps capital could not

indeed downtown washington hotel room. -- could not sleep in a downtown washington hotel room. he could not eat in a washington restaurant. he could not even go to a movie. we had fought a war against fascism. moment in thees a white house when a delegation comes to truman and tells him anut episode where african-american soldier gets with a busr disputes no good reason is a south, taken into

carolina gel -- jail, and in the cell he is beaten so badly about the head so badly that he is blinded. he is within a few miles of seeing his wife and his newborn child. truman says, my god i did is up.w how bad it was he creates a committee on civil rights and comes in with a notes of recommendations only against racial discrimination but against advocates andd he strongly reports that report and demands legislation. it results in a split in the democratic party.

dixie candidacy of strom thurmond. after 1944, the south which had been the solid south, that is the democratic south, is never itid for the democrats again does lead to a number of important developments, not the presidential executive order for understandable reasons in recent days, executive orders have a bad odor. but remember, one was an executive order that desegregated the armed forces so that was one important thing. a very important thing truman did. if you take a look at foreign , they, the marshall plan

creation of nato. berlin airlift. much more. all of this happens under truman . hand if you look at the institution of the presidency, the creation of the department energynse of the atomic commission. the council of economic advisers. institutions of the executive office today start with truman. so i think he is an underappreciated resident. harold: years suggest it is a problem for you to assess truman. -- you suggested is a problem for you to a system of. the end, your neutral on the bombing. you do not use that to condemn or praise him.

william: net no. i have a quote from a young, and "whenorly george who said you talk about the dropping of the atomic bomb, you can say, ." l it was a horrible thing well, the whole dog dam war was goddamn war was a terrible thing in world war ii. you mention the korean war, that was often thought of one of truman's achievements. he was very proud of it. warought his conduct of the of the greatest errors he made.

approval of his dismissal of general macarthur and his defense of the institution of the presidency and control of the military. course, a pursued a provocative course in korea that in many ways followed macarthur's own lines needlessly expanding the war. it resulted in terrible loss of life. and i think that is one of the shortcomings of the truman presidency. harold: i want to get to a couple more presidents before we give you some audience questions.

you can is is you know, most of them are about a 21st century president, not a 20th century president. which we will respect. but i do want to get to ronald reagan because you do not usually left a loud when you are writing 900-page history books but you have some pretty funny material about ronald reagan. heard say i have never the line you recounted that his advisers thought of putting a sign up in the cabinet and saying "reagan slept here." [laughter] william: yes. harold: you remind a seattle of the conviction of a patent medicine salesman but was and is in many quarters beloved. airports are named for him. buildings are named for him. is it the dawn of, as kennedy was in a way, a different kind of residency. a television presidency.

a movie star presidency which may read -- read to a reality presidency -- reality show presidency. what may happen? ronald reagan was first thought of as a candidate for public office, for governor of california, jack warner of bober bros. said, now cummings for governor. ronald reagan for his best friend. [laughter] william: someone else who had known ronald reagan said, you can wade in his deepest thoughts and not get your ankles wet. laughter] harold: but as president bush would say, he was underestimated. [chuckling] yes.

ronald reagan i found it harder to write about than any other president because you do not know and cannot figure out what is going on a. gripping account of his experience as signal corps photographer, soldier in world theii coming upon one of extermination caps. -- camps. until you realize he was never overseas in world war ii. he never left this country. there is story after story. in his inaugural address, he paid tribute to an american

whoser in world war i grave was in arlington and he at theking out to it international cemetery and as they had told him, the man's grave was in wisconsin. but reagan was not dissuaded by that. was a good story and many of his stories it turns out .ome from movies that he saw which seems just as credible as any other source of information. one of his favorite stories was on a bombingnner plane who shot and fatally and the pilot says to

him, that is all right, we will take it down together. and without stopping to think that if in fact that happened and the plane went down and crashed, there would be no way of knowing what one man said to another man. [laughter] william: and it turned out this was a line of dana andrews's in . movie that reagan had seen , particularlyd do presidency andr there is much good to be said about jimmy carter both during and particularly after his ofsidency, but it was a time limits. of gloom.

as you are suggesting, hero, a inspiring figure he was, likehey fdr whom he greatly admired, he brought good cheer to the country. reagan, and around the world. be just asmade revolutionary or counterrevolutionary as fdr in terms of changing the direction of government activity in our lives and expansion of government, although he did expand the government. he just said he was shrinking it. but in reacting to the new deal, he was a crucial figure. william: yes. he voted for fdr all four times. the officei was in

of americans for democratic action and washington and the executive director who later became one of kennedy's ambassadors was so excited about ronnie reagan and his liberal quoted anreagan -- they certainly knew one another from hollywood but the douglas campaign removed his name from the letterhead because he thought it was too radical. and it would give for a left-wing image in the campaign. background and yet turned sharply in the other direction against government. famously said in his inaugural theess "government is not

solution to our problems, government is the problem." but, as you also were indicating in your question, when you take a look at what actually happened, you do not find that under reagan government was reduced. so, he claimed it was. believed he had done it. and he did not do it. and yet, he did create an atmosphere of distrust of federal initiatives that is still with us today. sense, for good or for long-range impact on the history of this country. to a few of these questions because it is hard to believe we are running out of time.

we have one question about the 20th century at least. you mentioned at the end of wilson's residency was a miserable time. can you tell us why you reach that conclusion and what was the misery? >> well, we have a president who is barely functioning. wife who was not quite a political figure, had to review pages for him. we never knew how much he comprehended and how much he did not. it was a time of terrible race riots. mountingtime of inflation. disappointmentf venture abroad in world

war one. and of course, a time of the failure of the united states to enter the league of nations. so there is not very much good that one can say about the condition of american in 1919 and 1920. thank you for the question. harold: here is one that has at least a till hold in the 20th century. you were critical in the book of hillary linton's handling of health care reform. do you sense in her recent campaign that she learned from her mistakes or repeated them? william: there was a very nice review of my book in the wall street journal that had a sentence saying that if hillary

clinton is elected president i should not expect an invitation to the white house. that hillary clinton did a number of things during the clinton presidency that carried over into the campaign beinge sense of one of thoses things. dismaying aspects of was thatt election most college educated white

voted for trump. voted against hillary clinton. a conviction early on that the prospect that finally, after so many other countries in put in positions of power people such as golda meier that the united states had this opportunity finally to catch up. and womenwelcome that particularly would welcome that opportunity. and as not what happened you know. of part of it was that some hillary clinton's the hayes before this campaign --

some of hillary clinton's before this campaign irritated some. she said, i could've stayed home and baked cookies but instead i he cited to pursue my career. whonumbers of people supported trump for outspoken during the campaign and afterwards saying that hillary represent them. so, i think that there were antagonisms raised during the that carrieddency over into the campaign and to my regret, heard her and denied her the election. interestingan question. in the history of the 20th intury or before or since

guess we're getting an adjustment here, has a president ever refused to obey a court order? and whato enforces it happens next? [laughter] william: a congressman who is a good friend came over for tea on sunday and i was surprised by how far along talk of impeachment is at this early on in the trump presidency. and, this is the particular issue that seems most plausible. over for different areas they were exploring, such as the , which i dolause

not think it is probably going wondered whether trump would deny or define a a court order. bet would very likely plausible grounds for impeachment whether this congress, both houses controlled by considerable margins by republicans, would move in that direction. that is still doubtful. you have to get much farther than we have seen for that to happen. the author of that question you are just reading has -- the author of that question you were just reading thing thatger on the

could be the explosive issue of the donald trump presidency. i am thinking that no one has ever defied a court order. even nixon with the tapes. he turned over the tapes. william: the episode i of trumanly think is with the steel strike. the supreme court in the midst of the korean war, the steelworkers find that the steel bargain ins will not good faith with them and they start to go out on strike. truman orders his secretary of theerce, sawyer, to seize steel mills and have the government operate.

carry steel companies that up to the united states supreme court and the court at youngstown sheet and tube versus sawyer strike down the presidential order. with some sweeping language by some of the more liberal judges. truman is furious. verys fond of writing never sent.that he [murmuring] but historians are blessed with the documents that he did not destroy so they know what he was thinking about but he obeyed the order. franklin roosevelt famously

sought to pack the united states whenme court in 1937 but the court invalidated the two major pieces of economic of his first term, the national industrial recovery act and the agricultural adjustment act, roosevelt did not dispute their authority. of when in the case --phrey's executor as a unfair reviewnk to roosevelt, roosevelt absorbed it. been anyhas not episode that i can think of defied thesident has

supreme court ordered defied the federal courts. some indication in that donald or two trump is temporizing his language despite his attack on the federal judge as well as his --ack during the campaign two and against him that he is realizing this could be a bridge too far for him. the order re-crafting which is an avenue he can take rather than fighting. william: yes. harold: so i think it is fair to say that the state of the presidency is still i am reminded of the

book when harry truman promotes the plan or john f. kennedy challenge us to do for our country and not ourselves or lyndon johnson says "we shall overcome" or ronald reagan waxes poetic about the challenger disaster. as you point out, at these moments the lines can still be magnificent. and so is "the american president" the book by the interestingic and william leuchtenburg who brings it to act to life in his book and who brings us the aspirations and you guard sticks to face the 21st century. i hope we have left out just enough to inspire poetry. thank you, bill. -- lause] -- i hope we have out just

enough to inspire volume three. thank you, ill. william: thank you. [applause] announcer: next on reel america from 1961, the ordeal of woodrow wilson. this encyclopedia britannica film is hosted by former president herbert hoover and is based on his book by the same title. asbert hoover served overseeing distribution of food i.the allies start world war and mr. 25-minute film, president hoover details woodrow wilson's efforts to the versailles piece treating and his failed attempt to approve membership in the new league of ti