the president's door." sunday night on "q&a." >> next, historian william about therg talks effectiveness and legacies of 20th-century presidents. the conversation focuses on the book "the american president: from teddy roosevelt to bill clinton." the new york historical society hosts this hour-long event. tonight's program, the , atican president part two the new historical society. i would like to thank bernard schwartz for making this lecture possible, along with all of the other programs he supports. i would like to thank and recognize two of our trustees. i would like to thank them for

all they do on the half -- behal f of this great institution. [applause] tonight's program lasts about an hour and it will include a question and answer session. you should have received notecards as you enter the auditorium. if you did not, staff is still going through the seats, the the aisles with notecards and your notecards will be collected later on in the program. following the program, there will be a book signing. and books will be available for purchase in our history store. we are delighted to welcome leuchtenburg back. professor leuchtenburg has

taught at numerous universities over the course of six decades. including columbia and oxford universities. he served as presidential elections analyst for nbc and eyes presidential inauguration consultant to cbs and c-span. the professor was the first recipient at the arthur m/injure schlessinger award. he is the author of 16 books, including "the american presidents: from teddy roosevelt to bill clinton." harold holzer is the author of many books, including "lincoln and the power of the press." he is the winner of the lincoln prize and the 2016 goldsmith prize at harvard's kennedy school of government. in 2008, he was awarded the national humanities medal by president george bush.

as always, before we begin, i would like to ask that you please make sure that anything that makes noise, like a cell phone, is switched off. now please join me in welcoming our guests. thank you. [applause] mr. holzer: good evening. i want to apologize to all the doug brinkley fans who are here for not being doug brinkley. but i will not apologize or express any regret for this opportunity, any opportunity to engage in another conversation, public or private, with my friend, bill leuchtenburg. what an unexpected honor to be sitting with you again. we have so much to cover. i guess, a century. and i know some of you were here

at the historical society for part one. but as i was not, you will forgive me if i start at the beginning of the century. this book, as you described it, was the capstone of a lifetime of interest in the presidency. i want to say that that may be the understatement of the century. leuchtenburg has not only manifested an interest in the american presidency, he has done more in shaping our understanding of the presidency -- all of its possibilities and limits. i know that you will agree that we have never felt more obliged to study the past for lessons that we might impart for the present. let's see if we can spend a few minutes on most of the presidents that you cover. and if we can, let's start with the man who began the century.

a combination of st. vitus and st. paul, as you described him. [laughter] theodore roosevelt. ct, as thee asked -- a secretary of state? abraham lincoln's private secretary said? prof. leuchtenburg: well, he was an extraordinarily thoughtful man. a man who wrote a great number of books. an amazing number of letters in the course of his lifetime. he fascinated men and women of letters around the world. he was a great deal more than a pure act. he has an enormous impact on the institution of the presidency. i explain, at one point in the book, that in an earlier book, i

wrote a blunt sentence. american presidency, as byknow it today, was created franklin delano roosevelt. i started out writing this history of the 20th century presidency with that conviction. but the more i read and learned about theodore roosevelt, the more i became convinced that that is where the modern presidency begins. that when one considers how the -- how weak the american presidency was in the late 19th century and how powerful and office it was when theodore roosevelt surrenders power, in order to shoot lions in africa,

you get a sense of a major change of a sort that we had never seen in this country before or since. mr. holzer: he handpicked his successor. i do want you to spend a little bit of time on the phlegmatic but jolly william howard taft. then, if you would finish on telling us, aside from personal ambition, why teddy was so disappointed in his successor? when he, of course, launches his own comeback four years later. prof. leuchtenburg: i think he would have been disappointed in any successor. because he had to surrender power to him. he greatly admired taft. who had served in a number of important public offices. he saw, how the fellow progresses, in taft someone who

shared his outlook on foreign affairs. he found that was not quite what happened. him, to be ato considerably more conservative man than he had imagined. and also did not infused office that tr kind of energy had inspirited it with. some of this criticism was unfair. some of the most important progressive steps of the early 20th century occurred under taft. but taft didn't yield to the conservative wing of the republican party in the senate.

particularly in the notorious ballinger-pinchot affair, he encouraged the opponents of a strong environmental policy and alarmed teddy roosevelt, who was in europe and who kept hearing tales from taft's critics. he also -- taft made the gross mistake, in roosevelt's judgment , of questioning something roosevelt had done in an antitrust suit. i think taft was right about this. but it was unwise to cross

theodore roosevelt. mr. holzer: who was a very young man at the end of -- still young at the end of taft. prof. leuchtenburg: indeed. never a more warrior-like figure in the white house than theodore roosevelt. whereas taft promoted and othern agreements message for the peaceful resolution abroad. 1912 when taft ran for reelection on the republican ticket, roosevelt runs on a minor party ticket, the progressive ticket they had

, such a falling out they call each other names such as fat head. labeled asked which one called the other fat head. we will leave it to the imagination. the. leuchtenburg: one of marvels of this book in my view is it not only reverberates what this astonishing story has in knowledge that you have. it gives us the series of pithy, descriptive statements that make you sit up and take notice about what people felt about the president at any given time. the phrase that struck me about afterw, who follows taft the republican split, he was

called in his day the american icarus. he flew too high and got his wings burned, i guess. was wilson failing his ambition for world peace? they tried unsuccessfully to create an international peace. -- international peacekeeping operation. prof. leuchtenburg: when i went to school, woodrow wilson was the hero of all of the teachers. the league of nations, the great institution in geneva that the united states should have joined. nowadays, he has a different reputation. particularly as a racist, which, unhappily, he was. it is often thought that the reason that there was

segregation in washington d.c. is because it was a southern city. in fact, segregation was deliberatelynt, introduced by woodrow wilson and the southerners in the cabinet who he brought into power with him. there is a decided range of views. i think that if one were to point to more positive aspects, of course, that is a very serious negative one, it would be the creation of the federal reserve system.

efforts such as the child labor program916, the immense and economic mobilization in world war i that played much of the basis for the new deal -- that laid the basis for the new deal in the 1930's. also, the effort he did make for the league of nations. i don't think we see that anymore in the kind of heroic teachers saw it in. nevertheless, it was certainly the forerunner of the united nations. it was an aspiration that still seems admirable. mr. holzer: among other

innovations, the first president to put up a fight for the supreme court justice. went back to giving state of the union addresses before congress, which had been a tradition that ended, he resumed it. a lot of modern presidential precedence set by wilson. prof. leuchtenburg: if you say that in reverse order, we take it for granted that presidents deliver state of the union addresses. that was done initially, and then thomas jefferson thought that it was too much like the speech of the king from the throne. he thought this was an unfortunate federalist left over. it was woodrow wilson in 1913

time in morefirst than a century, reintroduced the idea of appearing before congress and delivering the state of the union address. on your first point, yes, wilson not only fought for supreme justice hece, the fought for was louis brandeis. brandeis was an important theorotician for wilson's new freedom. it provided the basic philosophy for wilson's economic programs.

later, it had a considerable influence on that wing of new deal thoughts in the 1930's. he was able, after a bitter fight, to gain confirmation of brandeis to court. mr. holzer: you say in the book that the day of giants past for while with the invent of harvard, coolidge, but you had fascinating things to say about harding. he deservesd that credit, and has not received it, for being pro-civil liberties. he was anti-lynching. florence harding, who has

a reputation, was actually an enlightened first lady. what motivated you to reassess harding so dramatically? i don'tuchtenburg: think harding came off too well. i would be misleading readers -- what is true is that the end of the wilson presidency was a miserable time in american life. stroke, is anas a isolated figure in the white hardings during a new openness to american

society, to the institution of the presidency. mrs. harding doesn't usually come across very well. she said about the drawn blinds of the wilson era, the american people paid for this white house, why shouldn't they be able to look in and pulled blinds -- pull the lines? blinds? eugene debs, the socialist leader, was sent to prison under wilson. subsequently, a document was

pushed before wilson to free him from the penitentiary. harding granted debs' freedom really than was expected, because he said he wanted to be able to have christmas dinner with his wife. he had to have debs come in to see him. he didn't want this to be a routine action. when debs enters the oval ounds outarding balanc extended, andhand says i am so excited for the opportunity to be able to talk to mr. debs. that is how harding was a little

different from the unhappily corrupt conservative president. a man who is just as bad as we always thought he was. he inhabits the other pages of my treatment of harding. mr. holzer: you have given him some humanity tonight and in the book. the incident described is so seemingly out of character from the harding that we know. there is a wonderful story about coolidge. i love your story that he had so little to interest him in the white house that he used to count the dollars that went by to occupy himself. as've also described hoover a humanitarian without humanity, a piercing comment. prof. leuchtenburg: i should say

about hoover, there was a lady that i greatly admired. my main criticism of coolidge would not be his economic policies, but how badly he treated his wife who didn't deserve it. somehow, he managed to survive. she was a teacher in the clark school for the deaf in northampton. he told her that she couldn't smoke, what she had to wear. could not use roush -- could not rouge. she did not want to cause difficulty in her marriage. she gathered reporters around her and spoke in sign language.

[laughter] you devote the most pages to franklin roosevelt. which is appropriate since he spent more time as president than anyone else. you rank him as the century's giant. buts a softball question, is it links of service, the 2 crises that he met and conquered? what makes you assess them as the giant of the century? mr. holzer: there's nothing -- prof. leuchtenburg: there nothing unusual about my ranking. every so often historians get a call from the new york times, time magazine asking us to rank , in fact, from the moment from

c-span -- mr. holzer: like academy voters, we can not discuss it. rank leuchtenburg: to the american presidents. this started in the early 1980's. all of these polls have resulted in the same rankings with only presidents ranked as great, near great, average, below average, and failure. only three presidents have been graded as great. the three are george washington, abraham lincoln, and franklin delano roosevelt. is one of the

leading authorities on the lincoln presidency. it is always first. fdr has moved into second place . my putting him there was hardly an original contribution. it is the consensus of the historical guild. the softball question is one that can't be separated out. the answer to why he is ranked is all of the above. he was in office longer than any other president has been. and, it is highly likely will ever be.

the cousin of the two-term rule after he left that was called a posthumous act of vengeance against fdr. it has the effect of guaranteeing, unless it is changed, that in all of the annals of the presidency will ever have served as long as fdr did. beyond that, the spirit with which he carried the country through the great depression, the reforms of the new deal, sections of the social security act in 1935, his leadership in tler, and thest hibbl

ultimate successful resolution of that war, ending with the creation of the united nations. it is a powerful list of things that fdr did. that is only a few of them. stresszer: you throughout your appraisal of fdr , 2 alliterative intangibles. confidence and communications. you stress how much that impacted american anxieties in both the depression and the war. prof. leuchtenburg: yes. one of my good friend's colleague at the university of north carolina published a book at couple of years ago on shirley temple. he says that it will shirley temple and fdr that got the country through the depression.

those smiling faces, that someone said about fdr that he must have been cycle analyzed by because he seemed so fearless and imbued the country with a kind of confidence. he once told a story that when andrew jackson was dying, somebody asked "will he go to heaven?" the answer was, "he will if he wants to." if i am asked if this country will get through the great depression, my answer is "it will if it wants to."

freedom from fear, the self-confidence to imbue others with confidence. fearlessness, given the terrible circumstances with which he took office in march of 1933, that is a very important part of his contribution to the country. mr. holzer: the other part is the communications aspect. i work in the place where franklin roosevelt gave his first fireside chat, though it was not so designated, a couple of days after his election on 66th street in manhattan. that broadcast was derided as areently as twitter feeds today, because it was considered unpresidential, undignified.

yet, his mastery of a new medium brought his message to the people and made people think that he was their friend. communication is an important part. prof. leuchtenburg: a very important part. he started the free and open -- the pressnce conferences of the past, particularly in the 1920's, carried the stipulation that questions had to be submitted in advance, a little bit like tonight. [laughter] end of the free and open first press conference, reporters could not believe it. they put down their notepads and pencils and broke out in applause. , as your aspect of it

were saying of the fireside then you invention of the boom tos a great presidents, yet they treated the microphone the way they treated speaking in a large lecture hall. speeches.out roosevelt understood there were ting atuals sit radio sets around the country. in the first fireside chat, which was on the banking crisis friends,he said "dear my friends."

"i am going to speak tonight to the american people about banking and explain the situation." he commentator said explained it so clearly that even a banker could understand it. [laughter] you mentioned shirley temple as a antidote to the depression. clearly the people that revolutionized communication on the radio was being crosby and roosevelt, because they understand it intimately. people got the impression he was on the air constantly, yet there were remarkably few fireside chats in his 12 years. it was once written that as a young man in newark on a hot

summer day he would walk down the street play print house, and because of the open windows he could hear an entire fireside chat on the street. the wonderful invocation of that voice. i know that we are giving around, but we are only at 1945. "missouri called the compromise" in his day. he was undervalued, underestimated, you are not of trumanbly a fan and you point out a lot of his failures and successes. expectationsceed in following a giant, and where do you find the lapses? prof. leuchtenburg: if you take

a look at what he did in civil rights, that would strike me the most. i was the only white on the field staff of a civil rights organization when truman was president, and i sat in the senate galleries when our legislation went down to defeat. it was a desperate time. an african-american soldier who came back from overseas and wanted to show his family the nation's capital could not sleep could not sleep in a downtown washington hotel room. he could not eat in a washington restaurant.

he could not even go to a movie. after we had fought a war against fascism. and, there comes a moment in the white house when a delegation comes to truman and tells him about an episode where an african-american soldier gets into a minor dispute with a bus driver, and for no good reason taken into a south carolina jail, and in the cell is beaten about the head so badly that he is blinded.

he is within a few miles of seeing his wife and his newborn child. truman here's is the story, he bounces out of the chair and know ity god, i did not was as bad as that." he creates a committee on civil rights and comes in with a series of recommendations not only against racial discrimination but against segregation. and strongly supports that report and demands that legislation. it results in a split in the democratic party. the dixie candidacy of strom thurmond.

after 1944, the south, which had been the solid south, the democratic south, is never solid for the democrats again, to present day. it does lead to a number of important developments, not least the presidential executive order, for understandable reasons in recent days executive odor, bute a bad o remember one was an executive , order that desegregated the armed forces. so, that was one important thing, a very important thing, truman did. if you take a look at foreign policy, the marshall plan, the creation of nato. berlin airlift. and so much more.

all of this happens under truman. if you look at the institution of the presidency, the creation of the department of defense, of the atomic energy commission, of the council of economic advisers , so many of the institutions of the executive office today start with truman. so, i think he is an underappreciated resident. -- underappreciated president. mr. holzer: years suggest it is toit is a problem for you assess truman. the end, your neutral on the bombing. you do not use that to condemn or praise him. prof. leuchtenburg: i have a quote from a young naval aide

who win you talk about the dropping of the atomic bomb, you could say it was a horrible say the whole inn for was a horrible thing world war ii. you mention the korean war, that was often thought of of one of truman's achievements. he was very proud of it. i thought his conduct of the war was one of the greatest errors he made. we think with approval of his dismissal of general macarthur

and his defense of the institution of the presidency and control of the military. but truman pursued a course, a provocative course, in korea that, in many ways, followed macarthur's own lines needlessly expanding the war. it resulted in terrible loss of life. and i think that is one of the shortcomings of the truman presidency. mr. holzer: i want to get to a couple more presidents before we give you some audience questions. most of them are about a 21st century president, not a 20th century president.

this is a big leap, but i do want to get to reagan. you usually do not laugh out loud when you are reading a 900 page history book, but you have some pretty funny material about ronald reagan. i must say i have never heard the line you recounted that his advisers thought of putting a sign up in the cabinet and saying "reagan slept here." [laughter] prof. leuchtenburg: yes. us hereer: you remind at the conviction of a patent medicine salesman, but in many quarters, he is beloved. airports are named for him. buildings are named for him. is it the dawn of, as kennedy was in a way, a different kind of presidency, a television presidency, a movie star presidency, which may lead to a reality show presidency? how did this happen? prof. leuchtenburg: along the

lines of where you begin, harold , when reagan was first thought of as a candidate for public office, for governor of california, jack warner of warner bros. said, now bob cummings for governor. ronald reagan for his best friend. [laughter] prof. leuchtenburg: someone else who had known ronald reagan said, you can wade in his deepest thoughts and not get your ankles wet. [laughter] mr. holzer: as president bush would say, he was misunderestimated. [laughter] prof. leuchtenburg: yes. ronald reagan i found it harder to write about than any other

president, because you do not know and cannot figure out what is going on a. -- going on there. he has a gripping account of his experience as signal corps photographer, soldier in world ii, coming upon one of the hideous nazi extermination camps. until you realize he was never overseas in world war ii. he never left this country. there is story after story. in his inaugural address, he paid tribute to an american soldier in world war i whose grave was in arlington and he was looking out to it at the

arlington national cemetery, and his aide said told him the man's grave was in wisconsin. but reagan was not dissuaded by that. he said it was a good story and many of his stories it turns out come from movies that he saw. which seems just as credible as any other source of information. one of his favorite stories was of a young gunner on a bombing plane who shot and fatally wounded, and the pilot says to him, "that's all right, son.

together."e it down and without stopping to think that if in fact that happened and the plane went down and crashed, there would be no way of knowing what one man said to another man in the final minutes. [laughter] it turned out this was a line of dana andrews' movie that ronald reagan had seen. but what he did do, particularly the carter presidency and , there is much good to be said about jimmy carter both during and particularly after his presidency, but it was a time of limits. of gloom. as you were suggesting, harold, reagan was an inspiring figure,

that was the way that he, like fdr, whom he greatly admired, brought good cheer to the country. and so did reagan, and around the world. mr. holzer: it made be just as revolutionary or counterrevolutionary as fdr in terms of changing the direction of government activity in our lives and expansion of government, although he did expand the government. he just said he was shrinking it. but in terms of reacting to the new deal, he was a crucial figure. prof. leuchtenburg: yes. he voted for fdr all four times. i remember, i was in the office of americans for democratic , and the washington executive director, who later

became one of kennedy's ambassadors, bounced into the room because he was so excited about ronnie reagan and his liberal views. they removed his name from the letterhead and the hetless campaign, because was thought of as too radical. and it would give for a left-wing image in the campaign. so, he had that background and yet turned sharply in the other direction against government. famously said in his inaugural address "government is not the solution to our problems, government is the problem." but, as you also were indicating in your question, when you take a look at what actually

happened, you do not find that under reagan government was reduced. though, he claimed it was, believed he had done it. but, he didn't do it. yet, he did create an atmosphere of distrust of federal initiatives that is still with us today. in that sense, for good or for , but others for ill will think differently, he had a long-range impact on the history of this country. mr. holzer: let me get to a few of these questions, because it is hard to believe, but we are running out of time. we have one question about the 20th century at least. you mentioned at the end of wilson's presidency was a miserable time.

can you tell us why you reach that conclusion and what was the misery? prof. leuchtenburg: well we have , a president who is barely functioning. wife, who was not quite a political figure, had to review papers for him. we never knew how much he comprehended and how much he did not. it was a time of terrible race riots. it was a time of mounting inflation. it was a time of disappointment in our venture abroad in world war i. course, a time of the

failure of the united states to enter the league of nations. so there is not very much good that one can say about the condition of america in 1919 and 1920. thank you for the question. mr. holzer: here is one that has a toehold in the 20th century, then moves on. you were critical in the book of hillary clinton's handling of health care reform. do you sense in her recent campaign that she learned from her mistakes or repeated them? prof. leuchtenburg: there was a very nice review of my book in "the wall street journal" that had a sentence saying that if hillary clinton is elected president i should not expect an invitation to the white house.

i do think that hillary clinton did a number of things during the clinton presidency that carried over into the campaign , and the sense of being privileged was one of those things. one of the dismaying aspects of the recent election was that most college educated white women voted for trump. voted against hillary clinton. it was a conviction early on that the prospect that finally,

after so many other countries in the world had put in positions of power people such as golda meier that the united states had this opportunity finally to catch up. and would welcome that, and women particularly, would welcome that opportunity. that is not what happened and as you know. and part of it was that some of hillary clinton's behavior before this campaign alienated women. when she made the statement "i could have stayed home and baked cookies, instead i decided to

pursue my career." numbers of women who supported trump were outspoken during the campaign, and afterwards, saying that hillary clinton did not represent them. so, i think that there were antagonisms raised during the clinton presidency that carried over into the campaign, and to my regret, hurt her and denied her the election. here is an interesting question. in the history of the 20th intury, or before, or since, guess we are getting an adjustment here, has a president ever refused to obey a court

order? if so, who enforces it and what happens next? [laughter] prof. leuchtenburg: a congressman who is a good friend came over for tea on sunday and i was surprised by how far along talk of impeachment is at this early on in the trump presidency. and, this is the particular issue that seem to most plausible. he ran over 4 different areas they were exploring, such as the emoluments clause, which i do not think it is probably going to get very far.

wondering if trump would defy a court order. that would likely be plausible grounds for impeachment whether this republican congress, both houses controlled by considerable margins by republicans, would move in that direction. that is still doubtful. you have to get much farther than we have seen for that to happen. i think the author of that question you were just reading finger on the thing that could be the explosive issue of the trump presidency. i am thinking that no one has ever defied a court order. mr. holzer: not even nixon with

the tapes. he turned over the tapes. prof. leuchtenburg: the episode i particularly think of is of truman with the steel strike. the supreme court in the midst of the korean war, the steelworkers find that the steel corporations will not bargain in good faith with them and they start to go out on strike. truman orders his secretary of commerce, sawyer, to seize the steel mills and have the government operated them. the steel companies carry that up to the united states supreme court and the court at down theown strike

president's order with some sweeping language by some of the more liberal judges. truman is furious. he was fond of writing very blunt memos that he never sent. historians are blessed with the documents that he did not destroy, so we know what he was thinking about, but he obeyed the order. franklin roosevelt famously sought to pack the united states supreme court in 1937, but when

the court invalidated the two major pieces of economic legislation of his first term, the national industrial recovery act and the agricultural adjustment act, roosevelt did not dispute their authority. and when in the case of humphrey's executor issued a, i rebuke toair roosevelt roosevelt absorbed it. , so there has not been any episode that i can think of where a president has defied the supreme court order, defied the federal courts. and there is some indication in

the last day or two that trump is temporizing his language , despite his attack on the federal judge as well as his attack during the campaign -- , the judge that was effectively to against him. he is realizing that could be a bridge too far for him. mr. holzer: or re-crafting the order which is an avenue he can take rather than fighting. and. leuchtenburg: yes, there is indication he is doing that. mr. holzer: it is fair to say that the state of the union's presidency is still strong and i am reminded in the book when harry truman promotes the plan -- the marshall plan, or john f.

kennedy challenge us to do for our country and not ourselves or lyndon johnson says "we shall overcome" or ronald reagan waxes poetic about the challenger disaster. as you point out, at these moments the lions can still be magnificent. and so is "the american president" the book by the ever-energetic and interesting -- and brilliant william leuchtenburg who brings it to back to life in his book, and brings us the aspirations and you guard sticks to face the 21st century. i hope we have left out just enough to inspire part thank three. you, bill. [applause] -- >> interested in american history tv? /history p ororg you can view the tv schedule,

preview upcoming programs, and archival films and more. american history tv at c-span.org/history. >> this weekend on the presidency, university of virginia presidential scholar discussing the traits that make a good president. she uses george washington, abraham lincoln, and fdr as examples of how great presidents cultivated leadership skills. here's a preview. >> and will not come as a shock to you to learn the three top residents considered the greatest whenever they are rated these come out on top, in this order usually. abraham lincoln, george .ashington, roosevelt

they come from three different centuries, three different important periods. there is one democrat, one republican, one nonpartisan. what makes a great president? i came across a definition that i like that helps distinguish these top three from the next three or four under them, which may include teddy roosevelt, thomas jefferson, or john kennedy. a diplomat and scholar of the presidency who has served democratic and republican presidents has written a book about why is there no more great presidents? his definition that would separate the top three would be you had to have preserved the country during an existential crisis.

washington, saving the country as it was being founded. it was not certain our country would carry on. it could have broken apart at any time. lincoln saved the union in the civil war era. finally, fdr weathers the great depression and also world war ii. watch the entire program tonight at 8:00 p.m. and eastern. this is american history tv, only on c-span 3. blue,day night, blue on copsnsiders story of good catching bad cops. the former chief of the nypd internal affairs bureau talks about his book with a former nypd officer and author of "

once a cop." of courage,s integrity, but there is that small number that keeps you up at night. when i was a precinct commander, everyone knew one person or two they didn't trust. when i went to internal affairs i brought the commanding officers on board it we would meet with them on a regular basis. i would ask questions like "who in your command are you concerned about, who keeps you up at night?" 2's book tv. >> the maryland park service and the national park service opened the harriet tubman underground railroad visitor center.

the national archive hosted a tubman's legacy and the ongoing preservation of her maryland birthplace. it is about 90 minutes. escapedg the civil war, abolitionist harriet tubman served as a scout, nurse, cook, and spy. her life is legendary, but not legend. in 1863, tubman makes an appearance as a witness in a court-martial proceeding. she was working as a nurse in a contraband cap in south -- camp in south carolina. after