be sure to watch c-span's washington journal live at 7:00 a.m. wednesday morning. join the discussion. tonight on c-span 3, the senate banking committee considers the president's nominees to be the next hud wd secretary and chair of the council of exec advisers. then stanford university host a conference on the future of the foreign intelligence surveillance act. after that korean and american scholars on the challenges north korea poses to the u.s. and its asian allies. later former california governor around schwarzenegger on after school programs.

this hearing will come to heard. >> next a confirmation hearing for president trump's choice to be the next housing and urban development deputy secretary and the chair of the council of economic advisers. this senate banking committee hearing is an hour and 25 minutes. >> we will begin today's hearing with an opening statement by me and then by senator brown and then i'll turn to senator po portman who will introduce mr. hassett and senator shaheen when she arrives who will introduce ms. patenaude. i see friends and families behind you as well. i also see my good friend bob dole, at least i did a moment ago. we welcome him here. each of these nominees stands to impact the living of americans across the country and will play an important role. mr. hassett has had a disti

distinguished career. he's a widely consulted expert. his nomination has received bipartisan support from notable economists including past cea chairman. mr. hassett's particular understanding of tax policy and the way it affects citizens and businesses will be a valuable asset to the administration. he has extensive experience with economic modelling and will be able to provide sound economic analysis for progrowth policies. key to economic growth is not only robust financial markets but also economic policies that will best enable all american to unlock their potential. i look forward to hearing from mr. hassett on how economic analysis can play a role in achieving this goal. ms. patenaude is a seasoned veteran in housing and community

develop holding leadership roles at the local and federal level. 12 yeeshs ago ms. patenaude received unanimous support by that committee and confirmed by the senate with a voiced vote to become assistant secretary for community and development at hud. in this role she overall all of the development operations. as a former leader in a local housing agency, she has on the ground experience and developed an important understanding of the impact hud ice policies have on local partners. ms. paddtted naud's nomination s been met with bipartisan support as well. this speaks to ms. patenaude's ability to address housing issues. i look forward to working with her on opportunities to improve hud programs, reduce regulatory

burdens with, leverage more private capital, empower decision-making and address comprehensive housing fons reform. at this time i ask unanimous consent to enter into the record two letters endorsing mr. hassett, one signed from 444 economists on both sides of the aisle. without objection so ordered. i also ask unanimous consent to enter into the record more than 30 letters showing bipartisan support for ms. patenaude including a letter signed by bob dole and george mitchell without objection. so ordered. congratulations to both of you on your nominations to these very important offices and thank you for your willingness to serve. senator brown. >> thank you, mr. chairman. mr. hassett. ms. patenaude. welcome, senator sheen, my senator and friend from ohio,

senator portman nice to see you. thanks for holding this hearing. i look forward to hearing the views of the two witnesses on economy, housing, community development. ms. patenaude comes to us with a long resume of development programs, hud management and housing advocacy. more recently housing america's families in a report entitled the silent housing crisis, the foundation report of having access to safe and affordable housing has long been recognized as a part of america's critical compact with his citizens. i look forward to hearing her views particularly since her past advocacy seems at odds with the approach that hud has taken in its budget proposal. mr. hassett has done important work related to the policies that drove manufacturing out of ohio communities and others like it across the country. i hope that his work at the council of economiced a vieszers

will focus on improving education in workforce development and actually rebuild infrastructure. that's what's needed to strengthen the economy. we've seen the government attempt to take away health insurance. target working americans with increased debt all to gurt the interest of the wealthiest americans. the administration's hud budget proposal is a stark ill zrags hof this agenda. 11 million renters as ms. patenaude and i discussed in my office and she's so very aware of this. 11 million renlt ters pay over f of their income in rent. if they're evicted, they lose, their children go to a different school. 11 million renters. i want you to always remember that number. 500,000 people are homeless.

the president's budget would cut $7 billion, 15% from the hud budget. the budget would eliminate programs like community development block grants and home, cut funding for public housing repairs by 70%. we all know the condition of public housing. and to cut their funding for repairs by 70% to eliminate funding for 250,000 housing vouchers next year. it reduces the funding for lead housing control to protect children from lead poisoning and other health problems. senator portman knows in cities in my state, in housing built before senator portman and i were born, the house, the lead conte content, the lead exposure in those homes are overwhelming, in some cases according to the health department 99% of those homes have toxic levels of lead. five months ago in this room dr.

carson scoffed at the notion that he would support a 10% cut in the hud budget. he said he understood from his experience as a pediatric neurosurgeon how it was far less costly to avoid lead poisoning than to treat it. i was one of five or six democrats who voted for his confirmation on the floor of the senate. i did that because of his personal and his public promises on lead. yet this budget which apparently he is defending -- that's one of the things we want to hear from you, ms. patenaude. his budget undermines all of this. broken promises don't end there. the president promise on the campaign trail to revitalize our inner cities and rebuild infrastructure. i hope we can work with the administration to strengthen our nation. instead the president proposes to cut more existing infrastructure programs than the $200 billion he's willing to

address. the hud budget will only add to the struggles our inner cities. i look forward to haerk from our two witnesses on how to tackle these problems. >> thank you senator brown. now we'll turn to senator portman to introduce mr. hassett. >> thank you for letting me do this and thank my colleague from ohio, my friend who just spoke, the ranking member. it's a pleasure to introduce kevin hassett. he is being nominated to serve as the council of economic advisers. delighted to see that he's got his own team of advisers with him today, his sons jay my and john and his wife christy. who is the chair by the way of that council. >> that would be me. >> christy is the chair. we've known you for a long time. kevin and i served together in the first bush administration. george h.w. bush. he was in the treasury office.

i got to know him and respect him. he continued to serve as a policy consultant for the treasury department under the clinton administration i went on to the house in the ways and means committee where i looked to him to provide economic council as we tried to reform the tax code. and again, chairman has mentioned that's one of his specialties. i'm pleased h he's been nominated for this position. he's got a lot of respect from economists from both sides of the aisle. his pred says tore as the chair of the council of economic advisers, jason ferman called him on excellent pick. he's been endorsed by many. he served as a senior economist at the federal reserve board of governors as an economic adviser to five major presidential campaigns. i want to point out that kevin is an expert on tax reform. i think this is going to be incredibly important to us. his focus has been on how to

have a tax code that gets rid of some of the loopholes and some of the preferences for special interest and a special tax code with lower rates. and i think that again is exactly what we need to get the economy moving. what he's shown is if you can fix a tox code in that way, the major beneficiary would be the middle class families. and that wages are flat right now and the best thing to do to get wages up is actually to reform the tax code. i think that's really important research. too many of our constituents are feeling. his work in that area has respect on both sides of the aisle. he is the right person at the right time, mr. chairman. i think as chairman of the council of economic advisers, the difficult task of tax reform among other things will be easier. thank you for giving me the opportunity to say a few words this morning about mr. hassett. and i strongly support him and i hope the committee will send him

to the floor. >> thank you, senator portman. >> snow senator shaheen, will you introduce ms. patenaude. >> thank you, mr. chairman. members of the committee. -- pam patenaude to be president trump's nominee to serve as the deputy secretary of the department of housing and urban development. what i have to say is probably overkill after your glowing review of her resume, mr. chairman. but ms. patenaude's experience in housing policy goes back nearly three and a half decades beginning in new hampshire at the new hampshire housing finance agency. that was followed by service as white house liaison at the department of housing and urban development in the reagan administration. pam and i first got to know each other when i was governor and she served in a succession of high level positions, director of new hampshire small business development centers, state

director for then senator bob smith of new hampshire and assistant deputy secretary at hud. and as you pointed out, she later served in the committee of planning and development with the urban land institute. what impressed me always about pam is that she understands that access to affordable housing and a safe place to call home is the foundation of families and strong communities. and throughout her career she's been engaged in these challenges as a thinker, a leader and a problem solver. and i've especially appreciated her ability to bring together desperate stakeholder groups, to forge bipartisan agreements in the housing arena and that she's personally dedicated to the core mission of hud, including the challenge of bringing opportunity, as you pointed out, senator brown, to america's most

disadvantaged urban kmurncommun. i think our nation is fortunate to have someone of pam's high caliber willing and eager to serve in this position in the federal government. and i hope that members of the committee will agree with me that her experience and expertise makes her superbly suited to serve as deputy secretary at hud. thank you mr. chairman. >> thank you very much, senator shaheen. we appreciate that introduction. and now before we begin your testimony i'd like to place both of the nominees under oath. so would you please rise and raise your right hand. do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god? >> i do. >> and do you agree to appear and testify before any dually constituted committee of the senate? >> i do. >> thank you very much. you may be seated. and mr. hassett, you may proceed. each of you may take a few

moments which we won't take away from your time to introduce any members of your family you may wish to introduce. >> thank you very much, senator portman for the kind introduction, and ranking member brown and distinguished members of the committee. i'm truly humbled and honored before you today as president trump's nominee to be the chairman of the council of economic advisers. i'm grateful to have a chance to get to know many of you throughout this process. i wish that the people that worry about waurg could have witnessed the private kindnesses that the members of this committee and staff have extended to me in the last few weeks. and i'd also like to begin as you invited me to, senator, by introducing my college sweetheart and wife of 31 years, christy hassett and next to her, my sons john and james who are sitting behind me. i also like to acknowledge my father john, a korean war veteran and my mother sylvia and sister julia who are no longer

with us. senators i've always been a senator of economics before i knew it. i was raised by two public schoolteachers in the beautiful tuned of greenfield, massachusetts. my mother was a kindergarten teacher and my father taught english in greenfield, high school. as i was growing up my town went through a painful transition for the long time time greenfield was a rising mill time with the largest dye operation that employed thousands of citizens. neighboring falls was also as prosperous, a massive paper mill along the banks of the connecticut river. times changed, families stopped moving away, graduates stopped coming home after college. when i started studying economics in college and in graduate school i came back to the example of why my town changed. why did many of the good jobs disappear. is there something that

policymakers can do to restore prosperity. workers can have high wages if they have high productivity and high productivity is enabled by an amble supply of capital. the real world has many complications that are not included in the models and the data surprise economists especially those with too much confidence in their theories. that observation led me over to years to focus on things that could be learned from the data. my dissertation focused on wages over the business cycle, what did the period when workers prosper have in common. how firm's investment decisions respond to government policy and how labor and capital interact. since then my studies have taken me in many directions. but a few things i would like to emphasize about my approach to economics. first it's essential to gather evidence and not just rely on theory. early in my career the empirical literature on taxation contained

many holes because the country by country day that that one would need for study were not available. my coauthors responded to this by building a tax database and making its data available to anyone who wanted it. i believe that economic analysis should be transparent and repl rks cable. open source computer codes that allows anyone to score tax plans, see what the assumes are that other use when they score their other plans. they promise to democratize tax debate. finally while i respect the need for research, my own focus is work that holds the promise of improving the lives of ores and sheds light on the circumstances of those less fortunate, like those in my hometown who lost their jobs when i was growing up. a recent example of this would be my work with the innovation

work, exploring the geographic in equality. eig researches worked hard to identify and measure stress and shed light on the communities around the country that most need your help. there's an interak tuff map at the website that helps people explore their own communities with a dark red indicating distress. one of the reddest shapes on the maps in massachusetts is turner's falls, the town across the river from my dad's house where the paper mill closed. this council was created to provide the president with advice, help policymakers craft solutions for problems that we face today. they've done so admirably. in 2009, christina roomer told this committee that she would do her utmost to protect the integrity and make it a center

for unbiased scientific analysis. members of the committee, if confirmed i pledge to you that i would do the same and that i would enthusiastically and inner jet cli take the helm of this great institution. thank you. >> thank you, mr. hassett. ms. patenaude. >> thank you, chairman. ra ranking member brown and distinguished members of the committee. it is a great privilege to appear before you this morning. i'm deeply honored by president trump's decision to nominate me as the deputy secretary of u.s. department of housing and urban development. i want to thank senator shaheen for her thoughtful introduction and a special thanks to my dear friend senator bob deole for joining us this morning. if i may take a moment to introduce my husband and our three daughters. my husband of 32 years, chuck,

katelyn, megan and jennifer. and my niece kristen hughes who is also here today and the many friends sitting behind me showing their love and support. housing has always been close to my heart and part of my family history. my late parents bob and estelle that hughes together created and ran a successful home building business in new hampshire. in the hughes house hold there was simply no escaping talk about housing. for that reason it was no surprise to my parents when i came to share their passion for housing. as a senior in college i experienced our nation's capital, as many students do as an intern. i never imagined that that internship at hud headquarters 35 years ago would launch a career that continues to inner jazz, challenge and inspire me. upon graduation i administered the section 8 rental assistance

programs at the housing authority where i observed first hand the transformational impact that hud programs could have on improving the quality of life for seniors and our most vulnerable citizens. during my career i've served at hud in several leadership roles. as assistant deputy secretary for field property and management, i restrucked hud's critical field operations and contributed to the development of the five-year strategic plan. as assistant secretary for community planning and development, i administered $8 million in housing funds and managed a team of more than 800 experienced professionals committed to carrying out hud's mission. outside of hud my career is focused on promoting housing principles with the changing needs of the american people. at the urban land institute i established a center for workforce housing to draw attention to the plight of america's most essential

workers, firefighters, police officers, nurses and teaches who are priced out of the communities they search. at the bipartisan policy center i directed the housing commission under the stead fast leadership of three of your former colleagues, senator george mitchell, senator kit bonn and senator mel. the commission developed a comprehensive report outlining a new direction for federal housing policy. currently i serve as the president for housing america's families where we seek to elevate rental availability as a national priority and to educate policymakers about the silent housing crisis in america. through these initiatives i've developed strong working relationships with diverse groups, diverse members of the housing community, house builde builders. i'm very proud to say that bipartisan collaboration has

been a hallmark of these initiatives. my career in housing at the local, state and federal levels of government and in the private sector have broadened my view. this unique perspective allows me to understand the factors that contribute to the success of some programs as well as the factors that diminish the well-intended factors of others. as articulated in the book "evicted" we have failed to fully appreciate how deeply housing is implicated in the creation of poverty. dr. desmond believes that powerful solutions are within our collective reach. i agree. i believe as a nation we must recognize that housing is not just a commodity but a foundation for economic mobility and personal growth. if confirmed by the united states senate i pledge to work closely with this committee, with congress and secretary carson to develop new solution

to address the affordable housing crisis in america and to implement the critical mission of the u.s. department of housing and urban development. i appreciate the community's thoughtful consideration of my nomination. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you very much, ms. patenaude. and my first question and i mean brief here because i only have five minutes. but i would like you each to briefly, within 60 seconds, to take a minute to discuss what your priorities will be as you are confirmed. mr. hassett. >> senator, thank you for the question. if confirmed my first priority would be frankly to recruit a lot of economists because the council of economic advisers has a protradition of recruiting folks from all across the united states to provide objective device to the president. and unlike a lot of agencies, the council turns over a lot. so there are new people coming to town to serve their country all of the time and if confirmed

that would be the first order of business for me because the staff would go from 35 to 10 were we not to start recruiting. the second thing i could say, a high priority for me is to increase the transparency of the modelling and the communication that goes on in all of the economic communication. i would like to take the work that i've done at eig where we've made these interactive maps and bring that spirit of transparency to the cea. >> thank you. ms. patenaude. >> the first thing i would like to do is hear what the secretary has learned during his first 100 days. from my past experience i know that i need to certainly asays the human capital needs and the operations needs of the department and i look forward to working with the secretary on developing a strategic plan based on his priorities and those of the administration. thank you. >> and ms. patenaude i'll stick with you because i'm going to go

back to both of you with a priority of mine i would like for you to assume. with regard to you, ms. patenaude, there's several. there's been a bipartisan interest in addressing a number of important issues in the housing space, such as streamlining regulatory requirements for phas, increasing the role of private capital and financing, affordable housing and creating a new sustainable housing finance system. i want no know, would you agree to prioritize those and work with us as we seek to achieve those objectives. >> yes, mr. chairman. >> thank you very much. and mr. hassett, my question for you is in the space you just referenced you have extensive experience with economic growth modelling and evaluating the economic impacts of policy. you mentioned you would like to prioritize getting that more transparent and i assume out there understood and used. various growth estimates have been discussed recently in the

context of tax and budget and other reforms. in your opinion, is 3% growth a reasonable target? and if so, please explain what policies would be needed to reach that goal. >> thank you very much. the 3% growth is something that americans used to be used to. that 3% growth was the rule rather than the exception. but growth comes basically if you want more output ultimately from more inputs. and historically we've hads labor force growth and technological innovation that have driven growth up to 3% that all of those fak to have been disappointing for some time now. capital formulation in the late '90s was contributing 1.2%. right now it's .4 or .5.

if we want to go from the 2% growth to 3%, then we're going to have to get those three things moving. and the thing that i've researched the most throughout my career is capital investment, how it affects workers and how to get it going. it's possible to return to a place where you could get 3% growth if we design policies in a way that would encourage capital formation in the united states. >> thank you. i would assume that would include some comprehensive tax reform. is that correct?? >> that's correct, senator. and i think the assessment was a little high. but there was a survey at the national bureau of economic research a number of years ago where a bunch of economists were surveyed about i believe the median estimate of the economic growth was 1% a year. if you're thinking about how to get from 2-ish to around 3, tax reform is certainly one of the tools that we would want to use. >> thank you very much.

senator brown. >> thank you, mr. chairman. ms. patenaude, thank you for being here. if your work you cited stagnating wages, a weak economy and shortage of rental homes affordable and available to the houses with the lowest incomes as factors in the rental affordability crisis we see today. broad economic trends are contributing to the shortage of affordable rental housing is that correct?? >> that's correct. >> you mentioned matthew dez month's observation that quote we've failed to fully appreciate how deeply housing is implicated in the creation of poverty. when he came to see a group of us in the senate one day i asked him to meet with a number of senators. when he signed his book he wrote "home equals life" understanding as you do in our discussion and i know you believe that families turn upside down in so many ways if they don't have a stable

affordable home. when i quoted him just now we fail to fully appreciate how deeply housing is implicated in the creation of poverty. if you believe what he wrote to be true, then the hud budget if adopted, wouldn't it create additional poverty? >> i was no involved in the proposed budget in any way, shape or form. and i very much appreciate and understand the role of congress in formulating the budget and look forward to working with the committee. >> but you're going to be -- let's just put this jigently th your knowledge and expertise far exceeds your bosses. i believe that's generally believed. you may not want to agree with that. he will be listening to you. what will you say to him about this budget? that these kind of cuts far in excess of wh he said he would support when he was in front of us three or four months ago, what do you argue with him in

what do you say to him? >> i have not had a conversation wi of the budget with secretary carson. >> what will you say to him once confirmed -- >> i think you can count on me to advocate for programs that work and are effective going forward. >> so does that mean you don't agree with the president's budget cuts? >> no. as the president's nominee i support the president's budget. >> but you will advocate for adequate funding of these programs that you know work? >> going forward, if i'm confirmed by the united states senate, yes. >> okay. i don't know how you support the president's budget cuts but you support adequate funding for these programs that work. can you explain that to me. >> to clarify i did not say, you know, the specific amount on what i would advocate for. but certainly there are programs that have been very effective at hud. and along with that i would be

making -- i could imagine that i would be making recommendations to streamline some of these programs. i'm very hopeful that we'll come up with new solutions working with this committee and your staff to address the changing housing needs in this country. >> thank you. i wanted to give a moment to your partner there. a little over a decade ago there was a debate over whether the economic growth rate observed was too pessimistic. you coauthored a paper that defended that rate, 1.9% over the more optimistic 3% growth rate that we had experienced over the three or four decades. part of your reasoning was that prudent planning for the future should actually place more weight on the downside risk than on the upside potential. now that it's conservatives who want to assume their way to balance, do you believe a 3% growth rate over the next decade really is warranted? i heard your comments to the chairman but when the con sen says among the fud, the blue

chip forecast and the kevin hassett of 2006 is on the order of 1.9%. >> senator, i again don't want to take up too much time. but for sure if we continue change policy we can expect to stay around 2%. i think if you look at the blue chip forecast, they don't envision the sweeping tax changes that we experienced in a bipartisan fashion in 1986 and that have been proposed -- >> so if i can interpret. i'm sorry. so that 3% is really contingent on getting real tax reform, not just a tax cut. you know in your years in the bush years that two significant tax cuts went overwhelmingly to the wealthy and there was literally zero, zero private sector net job growth in those 8 years. you're arguing only if we do real tax reform, not just tax cuts but real tax reform can we get anywhere close to the assumed 3%? >> i think that's a fair

assessment, sir. >> let me take the last three seconds. i want to talk about lead for a second because of your bosses, the secretary of hud's comments as the nominee, nominee carson other than secretary carson. i'm particularly troubled by the proposal on reducing funding for hud's lead grants and eliminate home and cdbg use for home repairs and other activities. as i mentioned briefly, most of the homes in cleveland, most of the homes in appalachia and most of the homes in dayton and cincinnati and youngstown are at least 50 and f 0 years old. the head of the cleveland health department said literally 99% of those homes have taxic levels of lead. share you thoughts on the effects of childhood lead poisoning in this country and the role that hud can play to eliminate it. >> thank you. i appreciate your concerns. yesterday dr. carson proclaimed june healthy homes month and he released a video -- i did not

watch the entire video because i was preparing for today's hearing. but the video addresses lead. so i believe that secretary carson is very committed to this issue and will continue to be. the budget, as i understand it, it was level of funding until the omnibus. so what the -- under the cr, that level of funding is what was requested in the proposed budget. it was not until after the omnibus was passed that it actually became a cut. but i think the level of support is significant. >> well, that's a matter of opinion. the original cdbg proposal was deep cuts. >> thank you very much. senator corker. and i do remind my colleague to hang in there with the five-minute rule. >> yes, sir. just want to get ready before my five minutes.

hadn't started yet. ms. patenaude, i want to thank you for your willingness to serve. we had a very good meeting in our office and numbers of people that i've worked with in housing speak very highly of you and i look forward to your confirmation. mr. hassett, your wonderful family is here and i know that you're one of the nicest folks i've met that's coming through. and i know that when we met on the other hand by the time the meeting was other, my temperature was about to take my head off as i thought about the fact think tanks that you've been a part of, of course, but so many think tanks here in our washington community make the perfect enemy and really can be very destructive, as we discussed. as we try to move ahead and actually pass legislation that accommodates some commonality on both republican and democratic

side. and actually the think tank that you've been a part of has played a big role in trying to undermine actually bipartisan efforts that we've put together here on the committee, you and i discussed that fully. and as i thought about it, i thought about a person coming into the white house that had been, quote, in an ivory tower, if you will, sitting over at a think tank, writing perfect things in a perfect world. i then began to question whether someone like you would even be good in this position. now let me say this as my temperature cooled down. and i thought a little bit more about, you know, your past. obviously you're qualified for this job. but can you talk with me a little bit about the role that you'll be playing there and hopefully share a little bit of understanding about the fact that we live in a world where we represent 320 million people here and sometimes, you know,

economists sitting in a think tank that have nothing in the world to discover but perfect don't always help us in a helpful way. >> thank you senator and thank you for your time in your office. i can tell you that i think the hallmark of my career is that i have never been that person who says that the perfect is the only thing that you should do and if you don't do that, then, you know, you're sun who is a traitor to economics. i think that i have work collegially with people on all sides in pretty much every issue that i've been involved in. i think at the council of economic advisers in particular the role of the cea is to provide objective advice about what the decision makers do. i think that the problem of governing is often one there's a lot of decisions that have to be made and they have to be made urgently and we need expert

analysis to inform those decisions. in a perfect world with perfect markets here's what you need to do -- >> that's not what people say. they say this is the only way for it to occur because the perfect is the enemy of the good. they're actually undermining legislative processes that have to talk into account, you know, different temperaments, if you will, different values that are part of democracy. so wasn't really that. i was the straight undermining of bipartisan efforts here on the committee. >> sir, at the american enterprise institute there are people with strong opinions and they don't take my advice about what they opinions should be but i can assure you that's not the way i would believe. >> who will you report to there. >> the president, sir. >> so not through gary cohn but directly to president. >> the council of economiced a vuzers was established in 1946 and by statute it's quite clear.

>> you quote a book in 1999. by 2009 i noticed it was at 10,428. what happened? >> sir, i think that one critic of mine once looked at that book and called it a youthful indiscretion. and as youthful indiscretions go, it wasn't a bad one. the motivation was to make sure that people understood how to think about equities and how important it was to nervous in equities because they're a good invest nmt the long run but not in the short run. i think looking back folks that bought and held were glad that they do. >> i know the president has said some things about trade. you're a full-blown free trader, is that correct?? >> historically, yes, sir, that's right. >> and he's also mentioned things about hedge fund taxation. you're a low carried rate person on hedge funds. i wonder if you might expand a little bit on that.

>> i've written one piece on carried interest, sir in the journal of tax notes coauthored by a fellow economist at aei and we analyzed the law of carried interest taxation and how it relates to partnership taxation that i think one of the main points of the piece written many years ago was that partnership law is what is applied to carried interest taxation. and to change carried interest taxation would require a new provision. >> thank you. >> thank you senator corker. senator warren. >> thank you, mr. chairman and thank you both for being here and for your willingness to serve. i want to follow up on senator brown's questions with a little more detail about the budget. and i want to focus in on housing. according to a report earlier this year from the national low income housing coalition, there's a shortage of about 7.4 million affordable rental units

in this country. millions of families are now forced to spend more than half their income on housing. on rent. the department of housing and urban development's response for addressing this crisis but president trump's budget now calls for cutting hud's budget by $6 billion. that would be a 13% cut. ms. patenaude, if you're confirmed, you would be responsible for overseeing hud ice housing programs. so i want to know where you stand on some of the specific cuts in the president's budget. so let me start with cdbg. the president's budget calls for eliminating all community development block grants, all of them. that's $3 million that provides shelter for people with special needs, that helps build nursing homes, helps create homes for veterans, helps create shelters

for victims of domestic abuse. this proposed cut would hurt some of the most vulnerable people in massachusetts and all across this country. do you support eliminating this funding? >> thank you, senator warren. the cdbg program have been around for over 40 years and $150 billion has been dedicated to this program. >> so do you support eliminating all funding for the cdbg program? >> during the last two administrations there were significant cuts proposed in the budget for cdbg and i believe that was due to the lack of targeting for the program. >> so i'm still asking the question. do you support eliminating the cdbg program or not. it's really a pretty simple question. >> i support the president's proposed budget. >> so you support eliminating -- >> i was not involved in the negotiations. >> i didn't ask you if you involved.

i wasn't involved either but i have a strong opinion about it. do you support eliminating all of the community development block grants that are used to support housing? >> i certainly would support reforms to cdbg. >> do you support the cuts in the president's budget. this shouldn't be an arm wrestling contest. it's a yes or no. you support where the president is or you don't. >> i did state that i support the president. >> you do support all of these cuts then. okay. we got it. there are going to be a lot of people hurt by that. donald trump's budget also eliminates $948 million in funding for the home investment partnerships. now home funding helps states build and rehabilitate housing for low income families. organizations in massachusetts rely heavily on home funding to create more livable affordable housing units. so ms. patenaude, there's a housing shortage of more than 7 million affordable housing units in this country and this

proposed cut would make that shortage worse. more people will end up on the street. more women, more children, more veterans, more seniors, more people with disabilities. it's that simple. do you support elimination of this funding? >> senator, the home program has grown the number of recipients participating jurisdictions over the years and the grants are getting smaller and smaller and more difficult -- >> do you propose -- do you support eliminating funding. >> i support the president's budget. >> so you support eliminating it. that's going to hurt a lot of people too. more than any other federal agency hud is how americans help friends and families in need. it's not about handouts. it's about helping people find decent safe place to live so they can raise their kids, go to school, so they can get a job. the president's hud budget attacks those who need help. it attacks seniors, it attacks

children, it attacks veterans, it attacks people with disabilities. it attacks abused women. it attacks people trying to put their lives back together. it is a disgrace and anyone who cares about house in this country should oppose it. mr. chairman, i yield. >> thank you. and senator rounds. >> thank you, mr. chairman. ms. patenaude i would kind of like to follow up on the conversation that you began with ranking member brown and i'm just curious. with regard to the president's budget and so forth and the allocation of scarce resources through hud, could you share with us a little bit perhaps how you would prioritize when -- nobody is going to have as much money as we want to have and yet there are very important projects out there. i'm certain that you've had a chance to look at where your priorities would be. can you share with us what you would see as the priority and

how you would use the dollars allocated and whether you would like to see the focus at with regard to the use of scarce resources? >> thank you, senator rounds. the priority has been for a long time to target to the most vulnerable populations so i certainly support the continuation of that. i would also support programs that have a proven track record that we can measure the performance. but with that said i would also like to look at reforms of some of the programs that i would certainly support in a future budget. >> so as you take a look at all of these, one of the areas that we've got concerns with is in native american housing and so forth, particularly in the dakotas where we have large land masses, large areas but basically a scarce population. we've found time and again that we really do lack housing in those areas and to us we're talking about some of the

poorest counties in the united states actually where they're on the reservations and they really do rely on assistance. and particularly when it comes to housing. would you see it appropriate that in those areas where you can evaluate and you see that these are perhaps some of the poorest and some of the most in need, are these the types of areas that you would consider prioritizing with the resources available? >> yes. as i mentioned during our meeting, i've limited exposure to indian country and look forward, if confirmed to visiting pine ridge with you to get a better understanding of the needs. but i was surprised to learn about the number of barriers to construction with the lands and i certainly would like to look at ways to work -- you have more barriers than even normal circumstances for development. so i would like to look at ways where we can help reduce those regulatory barriers to development, use of the tax credit program in indian

country. i think it would be a high priority. >> last year congress passed the housing opportunity through modernization act by unanimous votes in both chambers. this legislation was the first substantive housing reform enacted by congress in decades. among the many reforms in the legislation were provisions that helped to address homelessness, reduce the burdens on the public housing authorities and other organizations that the hud works with and provisions that further incentivize americans who use hud to find work and provision to help improve the quality of life for residents of public housing. how do you think that congress can continue to build on this progress in the future as you've looked. what other barriers that -- what have we actually set up that we need to take a look at in terms of improving to make the job of actually helping these individuals more realizable? >> senator, the president has actually requested that each agency review their regulations.

and there are numerous regulations on the books that are outdated, no longer necessary. i believe that if we're going to make a difference we have to look at barriers at the local level, the state level and the federal level and particularly the local level. all zoning is local, all real estate is local and i think hud needs to help the communities see that there is indeed barriers, unnecessary barriers sometimes to development. >> the cdbg program, community development block grants is an area that we've really relied on at the state level. during the time i worked as governor in south dakota we used cdbgs. i think this governors and local governments have a real sense of where the resources can be put to use the best. and in many cases these products can be used to reyat infrastructure, to improve infrastructure, upgrade

infrastructure. a huge ability for individuals to see improvement in the quality of life in their community. i'm curious what your thoughts are about the use of community development block grants, your support for them and whether or not they've been an effective tool in your view. >> you have more experience having been the governor in utilizing cdbg. of course we do have success stories with it. but i do not believe that the amount of money available to the grantees is significant enough to make, you know, infrastructure investments. and i believe that the president's infrastructure bill perhaps is a better place to address infrastructure were water and sewer than through the cdbg. >> i think additional resources would be welcome and that when we start talking about investment in infrastructure, the fact that we could look at areas in which it would actually improve housing by creating

infrastructure that promotes more housing is a good thing. but i'm glad to hear that you think there were not enough resources put in to make a difference. we would like to talk to you about perhaps increasing that in the future as well. mr. chairman, with that thank you. my time has expired. >> thank you. senator donnelly. >> thank you, mr. chairman and thank you both for being here. ms. patenaude, during your recent visit we discussed the crisis in east chicago, in indiana where the lives of more than 300 families, upended and put at risk due to the presence of significant levels of lead and arsenic in our soil. hud has helped most of the residents find new housesing. local officials are pursuing emergency hud funding for the safe safety and security and ultimate demolition of the complex. can i have your commitment that in confirmed you'll advocate for hud to dedicate the resources needed, including emergency funding to assist these residents their their local

officials in getting this situation taken care of? >> yes, you have my commitment and i believe secretary carson is committed to this issue as well. >> i think we're working right now with his staff to find an exact date for him to come to east chicago so we can witness it first hand. when i was in the house of representatives i served on the house veterans affairs committee. and far too many veterans as we all know that served our country find themselves sometimes without a home or a place to put their head down at night on a pillow. will you continue efforts to address this problem, and that includes the veterans affairs supportive housing program from hud and va. i was troubled to see that the recent hud budget proposal didn't include additional founding for new hud vash vouchers. in a rental assistant program is set for a funding cut. how can we help end veteran

homelessness when we're cutting the programs intended to help them. >> in preparation for the hearing i met with the career staff and met with the director of the homeless programs at hud. and during that briefing the staff informed me that the allocation of vouchers that they currently have are sufficient to address the veterans' needs and i found that to be somewhat surprising so i asked again. i did some research. there's going to be a difference of opinions depending on who you talk to. but i trust that the career staff running the homeless programs, administering the homeless programs have the data to make an informed decision. so i accept their recommendation that the current allocation is sufficient to address this issue. >> we'd love to see all of that data. because you know, the concern, the thought, the heartbreak of one veteran who doesn't have a place to go home to or is in a facility that is nowhere near

what they should be able to expect in terms of living conditions is something that we owe to every single veteran. how do you plan to utilize hud's resources to help house our homeless veterans? >> the allocation of the vouchers is based on a formula for the -- for veterans for the vast program and i would like to look at this. if i'm confirmed, would look into how we can reallocate so that the homeless veterans in need of the voucher and the support services that are -- they're not currently reaching that we can get this assistance to the veterans. >> communities such as gary, gary, indiana, have benefited from blight elimination funding. but there's still really big needs. the population declines there have led to a plague of abandon and neglected buildings resulting in increased crime and

resulting in distressed sections. the main funding for blight is community block grant, the cdbgs. but the president's budget eliminates this program. how can we help cities like gary combat housing blight if the cdbg program is eliminated? >> senator, there are other programs, there are other funding streams that can be used for demolition. i think the tax credit program, when you're looking at perhaps, you know, new construction or preservation of affordable housing is another funding stream that could be used. >> well, we'd like to work together with you because i think the elimination of cdbg makes us much, much more difficult. makes it much, much more challenging. and this is not a situation where there's not a need. all tough do is walk around the streets and walk around town. and actually, you can just drive

by on the highway. and see it right from there. some of the same houses that have been abandoned for a very long time. mr. hassett, i didn't want you thinking that i was trying to ignore you. i wanted to ask you about the desire to see financial deregulation and the concerns i have about all of of that. i was serving on the financial services committee during -- and i have to answer this quick or ask this quick. during the most difficult and challenging times we had in '08, '09, '010. dodd/frank put in place to ensure safety and soundness. when we saw the dotcom bubble occur and then we saw collateralized debt obligations and similar things, i would love to hear from you, do you see any bubble on the horizon that should concern policymakers and what is your biggest concern? you know, i always try after

that experience to look at worse-case scenarios so that it never happens again because it destroyed my state in terms of employment and other areas. what do you see as the biggest challenge out there right now? the thing that concerns you the most. >> in financial regulation, senator, it's not my immediate area of expertise, but, you know, economists study -- >> you have written books about the subject. >> not on regulation but the financial markets are very complex. they're what economists call incomplete which means they can at times act in incredibly defud ling bays and seeing mary poppins and understands the importance of financial regulation. it's really important that regulation evolves. >> what i was asking you was, if you had one thing to keep an eye on or to worry about right now, what would it be? >> i think that -- >> okay. >> short answer. >> sorry about that, sir. >> i think that we've got a

recovery the's very long in the tooth. recoveries often end of old age and it's something that we need to be attentive to and think about policies to adopt to extend the recovery. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you. senator scott. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you for both of you being here this morning and good morning, ms. patenaude. good to see you again. thank you. thank you for coming by the office and having a good conversation about the direction of hud, certainly. as we have had a lot of questions about the president's budget, i think it's important to note that while we in congress will have the opportunity to negotiate and wrestle with the outcome of the budget requirements and prior it is, your responsibility will be to take and do as much good as possible. speaking of as much good as possible, we talked a little bit about the importance of treating the whole person as a part of the hud approach. myself, i will be joining

senators blunt and reed in introducing the family self sustainability act, the bill cuts department costs through consolidating redundant programs and at the same time it expands the scope of the fss program to provide more residents access to job training or help in attaining a ged, lower costs, more self sustainability, i think that's what we call a win-win. what would be your approach to treating the whole person at hud? >> well, certainly, public/private partnerships would be a critical component to that, the communities that have the resources are certainly better positioned to be able to help. but i believe that the private sector as well as local government can play an enormous role in helping to facilitate programs, whether it's, you know, after school programs or these centers, the vision centers that secretary carson has talked about during his listening tours. so i really do believe that we need to look to the private

sector to help rebuild some of these communities. >> thank you very much. i look forward to your confirmation. dr. hassett, thank you for your work at aei. i have watched you from a distance and appreciate your contribution to the economy and the way that you have said things -- paint pictures like long tooth recovery. interesting. you have also said that while certain areas of the country are doing remarkably well, the recovery has profoundly been uneven. with large swaths of the country facing chronic rats of unemployment and rice tore cli low levels of new investment. can you elaborate on the cost of this uneven economic recovery? and also, what could we do to bring more resources into distressed communities? >> thank you, senator. i think that one of the things that economists have learned and really the last decade of

research that was really startling to me how extreme it was, was that there's so many people if they lose their job and they don't get a job back in a little while then they start to despair and they start to have personal problems and they often it can happen turns to a spiral that takes them to a very bad place. and that we know that there are pockets of our country where because of lows like my hometown that there are a number of people that end up having substance abuse and so on, nobel prize winning economist deeten wrote a really moving piece on this and i know that when i give economic talks around the country, if you ask americans about this problem, they recognize it and something that i've noticed is that everyone wants to do something about it. everybody does. but they don't know what to do about it, especially the really concentrated geographic inequality and i think what we need to do is think of ways, not only with policies but individual by individual that we could help people make a difference because i know that americans want to.

>> yes, sir. well, i know there are two individuals who have been working on this, myself and cory booker being the two individuals. we have legislation called the investing and opportunity act which seeks to defer the capital gains tax up to seven years if folks are willing to reinvest those capital gains into distressed communities using the new market tax credit designation. i would love for you to look at the legislation and come back with some thoughts of having success in impacting long-term poverty and unemployment in those distressed communities. >> thank you. if confirmed i would really look forward to working with you on that. >> final question since i have i guess according to the folks who have asked questions before 2:38 left in this conversation. i thought it was funny, too. you're next. so, the question i have is on the whole notion of the workforce participation rate as you just described the impact of long-term unemployment makes it very difficult to return to the workforce, hence our workforce

participation rate has been declining for the last eight or nine years. i think about the economy to come, the gig economy or the shared economy, the technology economy. it seems like our focus on workforce investment is going to be a very important part of how to navigate the future challenges that will displace millions of workers in a way that we have not seen in the past. how do you factor that in to the goal that we have growing our economy? >> thank you, senator. it's really an urgent goal for us to address the share of the population working is something like 27 out of 30 oecd country that is we need to help people get back to work and i think the sharing economy can be part of that. but also, presents a number of challenges. >> yeah. thank you. >> thank you. senator cortez-mastel. >> thank you mr. chairman and ranking member and welcome to both of you and thank you for

the time you spent with me in my office talking about the issues that are important to us particularly in nevada, as well. and it's nice to see your family here. welcome. and appreciate your commitment to public service. dr. hassett, let me start with you. we had this conversation and let me just follow up with this. in 2013 you said in a written research piece, quote, with lackluster gdp growth threatening to be the new normal, allowing immigrants to epter is a policy that might restore our old normal. if the u.s. double ds its total immigration and prioritized bringing in new workers it could add more than half a percentage point a year to expected gdp growth. unquote. and despite the clear evidence indicating that you are correct, here we are in 2017 with the administration pursuing precisely the opposite policies. in fact, the president's policy of the mass deportation is sparking panic and fear in many latino communities causing

consumer spending to fall by double digits. this is threatening these communities, confidence in the economy, just as it was starting to be restored after the financial crisis. by the way, financial crisis that was hardest hit in nevada. so the question i have for you is what you said in 2013 still true about immigration and economic growth? >> thank you, senator. i think that there are a lot of policy angles on immigration. one of them is border security. i'm not a border security expert. but economists are very good at mapping inputting in outputs and more input of labor we will get more output. you know, i'm -- my ancestors are irish immigrants not allowed in the country because they had a computer degree i presume. i think that immigrants in this country have been an important source of growth. entrepreneurship is flailing right now in the economy and immigrants twice as likely to be

entrepreneurs so i think that any immigration policy comprehensive immigration policy would have to recognize all the policy challenges and the simple economics of inputs and outputs. >> so what you said in 2013 still holds true? >> i don't know if i advocate specifically a number of exactly how much immigration should go up or anything like that. it's certainly not the role of the -- >> you would agree contributes to the economy? >> -- we would have more output, senator. >> thank you. i appreciate that. in the past you characterized wall street legislation as the worst in my life and that the law, quote, needs to be repealed as soon as possible. is it still your view that wall street reform should be repealed? >> senator, i would have to look back at what i was -- i don't recall this thing. i would have to look back at what i was talking about and get back to you on that. it would take more than -- to review what it was i was talking about and why i was so adamant about it. i would have to really review

it. >> obviously. i can tell right now. let me say this. in nevada i said came autoof the worst financial recession since the great depression and if we continue to make economic progress, we can't have e vase rate the rules we put in after the collapse. i hope you consider that when you're looking at this. >> thank you. >> thank you. ms. patenaude, thank you again for the conversation. let me say this. i am absolutely concerned about the conversation we just had about eliminating the cdbg which is proposed in the president's budget. as somebody who has worked at the local level and local government and at the state level and the state of nevada i know that that money is crucial to what we do in nevada when it comes to homeless services in our rural communities likely i don't know county, transportation for seniors in nia county and catholic charities, food pantry and meals on wheels and so many other important services so let me ask you this because i know we had this conversation. i heard what you said.

you support the president's budget which concerns me because he eliminates the cdbg about $20 million coming in the state of nevada but let me give you an opportunity because you talked about reform. would you eliminate it or reform it? >> thank you, senator. and i appreciate that the time that we spent together. i learned a great deal about your state and the challenges you're facing there. as i mentioned earlier, as the president's nominee, i support the president's budget. going forward, as a lifelong houser, i would certainly be advocating for programs with proven track records. when i -- you know, mentioned reform, cdbg is certainly a program that we have had a very difficult time measuring the performance and the outcomes. and i do believe that the allocation, the amounts that are allocated are oftentimes not enough to make a significant impact.

obviously, there are many exceptions to what i'm saying but over the years under both democrat and republican administrations, there have been cuts to the cdbg program. >> now, and i appreciate that. and in our conversation you mentioned how you have strengthed the cdbg accountability and transparency during your previous tenure at hud an i appreciate it so why not build on the previous work instead of eliminating the program? and that's the concern i have with this discussion today. i understand my time is up. there's others that i will submit for the record and i appreciate you being here today. thank you. >> thank you. senator till lis. >> thank you, mr. chair. thank you both for being here and congratulations on your nominations. mr. hassett, i'll start with you. i want to go back just briefly about the discussion of immigration. the point of your report had to do with legal i would assume, legal immigration, guest worker programs. one end of the spectrum to h-2 a

and b at the other end of the spectrum because they create an economic multiplier and i think some would argue they create american jobs as a result of that -- as a result of that reliable, predictable guest worker program that ebbs and flows in this country an it's something we need to get fixed. was that the essence of your analysis? >> yes, sir. >> i have to tell you, i'm locking forward to supporting your nomination and now it's with a ast risk. i'm not a patriots fan. i thought it was remarkable and will have to make me go back and change the smack talk but i won't use the hearing here today to drill into that. i do want to talk a little bit about a report. you're very well published and impressive list of writings. one i want you to spend maybe a minute on two is at the spending taxes and certainty a road map to a 4% gdp. in your current role, how would

you cut through the noise that we have right now and emphasize what we think we have to do to build the momentum to actually get to a sustainable 4% gdp growth? >> thank you, senator. i think that it's essential if we were to move forward and make the policy changes we need to get higher growth that we have to build consensus by having rigorous modeling that draws on empirical evidence and is -- >> purely based on tax policy? regulatory policy? in other words, what are the fundamentals? what are the top-line issues this people understand that don't have your expertise, that we as congress members to focus on? >> thank you for referencing the specific article that there are a number of challenges, one is tax policy. one is regulation to make sure that they pass cost benefit tests. another is to look at the long run budget balance and remove certainty of what the future holds because we haven't fully

funded the promises we have made. if you look back at each of those, the countries that have sort of gotten their act together on those things experienced surges in growth and i think there's every reason to expect that that could be an opportunity for the united states. >> i agree. ms. patenaude, i wanted to give you an opportunity to talk -- cdbg is something anybody that's worked in state government knows about, knows the impact it can have and i know that hud has a hundred or more programs and sub programs duplicative efforts. some are working. some are not working. i asked secretary carson if he would focus on people that come in, rationalize the programs with the goal of, do you believe even within the president's budget if he zeros out cdbg, do you think that the administration simply wants to turn their back on the 11 million households that spend 50 prs of the income on rent and utilities or trying to come up with an efficient way to do it to produce resources to people

that need it? >> senator, thank you for that question. i absolutely believe that the administration is not abandoning the population that you referred to. but that we need to be more creative, we need to harness the power of the private sector, reduce with communities to reduce the barriers, the cost of building has, you know, become prohibitive in so many places in this country and it can contribute. regulatory barriers contribute to up to 35% of the cost of a unit or a home. so, there's certainly an opportunity there. as far as the hud programs, i just wanted to add on cdbg, we tried to -- we proposed formula reform back in 2005 and we were not successful. with the reforms at that time. >> the -- i think that if we're going to get to a point to where we're producing more resources to people who desperately need it then we have to be open to a

different way of addressing the needs. and i think that we have a lot of duplication. we have a lot of inefficiency and is at -- while you can pick -- cdbg is personally very important to me right now because we were successful getting $334 million through the cdbg program for hurricane matthew relief. it's a vehicle i'm using today but if you can give me a more efficient, effective vehicle for productivity of states for housing, for disaster relief, that's what we need in hud. we need to go back, revisit it. make it leaner and get it to a point where the dollars going to the programs are ultimately affecting lives, not funding programs. thank you. i look forward to your all's confirmations. >> thank you. >> thank you. senator reed. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you to the witnesses and, first, dr. hassett and i had the opportunity to collaborate together on the work share

program. extraordinarily impressed with his not only knowledge but his thoughtfulness and his analytical skills. we don't always agree but we do agree on work share and in that vein, dr. hassett, i would hope in your new role that you would continue to promote this as an option in every state. i know with your help we expanded it to 19 or 20 states but could you comment on that? is that an appropriate way to deal with -- >> thank you, senator. in fact, i commend the senator for his leadership on this issue. if there's now an empirical literature evaluating your efforts that says that rhode island really outperformed a lot of other states because you not only, you know, helped states change their unemployment insurance to help serve workers better and made sure that the people of rhode island knew that they could take advantage of this federal program and i know that now there's hard, you know, peer reviewed evidence that that was successful. i think that absolutely that if

unemployment insurance reform were to be on the agenda again that there's now a large body of economic evidence that would support extending efforts in that direction. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. >> ms. patenaude, thank you again for your service prior in the previous administration, but also, your efforts. i just -- one of the issues that came up with secretary carson was i asked him to kind of work with me and others to maintain the u.s. interagency council on homelessness and yet i see in the budget it's been zeroed out essentially. senator collins and i have legislation to restore it. interesting enough, you served on the council from 2005 to 2007. will you support our efforts to restore it? and if not, when's the option to coordinate all these different

programs? >> senator reed, thank you very much. the interagency council on homelessness was certainly unique at the time. we did not on a regular basis collaborate with other federal agencies. as i mentioned, i had never been in the department of transportation or the department of health and human services. the only interaction i had as well as va was during the meetings at the interagency council and i think the interagency council perhaps is outlived, you know, its time. because now collaboration is expected. it's part of, you know, performance management agenda and i would like to take a look at how the interagency council's working right now after our meeting i did go online and certain lit's a source of a lot of data but that perhaps is duplicating efforts at hud so if i'm confirmed it's something i'd really like to look into and,

you know, give more consideration to the council before i can make a definitive decision on that. >> well, i wish you, again, i'm -- our legislation, senator collins and i, would extend our eliminate the sunset date in the council so it would give it sort of a long-term existence and i would look very much like you to look at it and get back to us. i can recall, again, serving as a ranking democrat on the appropriations committee of hud, having a hearing with senator collins and we asked the ig what was the number one concern and his response was cyber security. and in your role, you're sort of the chief of the administrative officer. can you discuss what steps you intend to take and with respect to cyber security? >> thank you, senator. after our meeting, i actually scheduled a meeting with the office of the chief information officer and this is an area that

i have limited expertise in and i think that would -- i was amazed at how far hud has come and i realize i was talking to the gentleman that is in charge of this. he's the deputy cio. and it appeared from the conversation that we had that hud is actually in much better shape than perhaps the inspector general, you know, has portrayed in the report to congress. so i was encouraged by that meeting. it certainly was, you know, an hour long. i would need, you know, several hours with the cio and hopefully we will have a cio on board or nominated soon so it's area that i certainly will spend a lot of time researching and trying to understand the needs of hud but it was a very encouraging conversation. >> and just finally, very quickly, i am concerned about the cuts the cdbg.

that's a refrain you have heard, i think, from many people. and it's a worthy endeavor to look for more efficient model but in the interim cutting a model that appears to work very well, i don't -- i have not heard a lot of complaints. in fact, i have heard lots of acclaim, particularly by local leaders, mayors, governors about how effective it is because basically it provides resources for local initiatives. and i think that's something that you should be considering. one other point, too, just clarify this, in a response to how you're going to make this more efficient, sort of these issues, suggestion was the local regulatory barriers. >> that's to new construction and preservation. local zoning is certainly contributing the lack of supply in this country.

and i, you know, feel that that's an area that we need to address. >> so let me be clear. the trump administration is going to intervene in local zoning to make it more efficient and effective to develop affordable housing? >> no, senator. i don't think that hud or the federal government should be, you know, have the zoning powers but to be able to encourage local communities and when secretary kemp was at the helm of hud, he led a very comprehensive effort, not in my backyard which identifies regulatory barriers that existed every level of government but the purpose of this was to be able to share best practices. during the bush administration we had an effort to work with mayors so i think there are ways to incentivize but certainly not -- not to dictate to local decisionmakers but i think there is a lack of education and

oftentimes -- >> so there's money in the budget to incentivize changes to local zoning to encourage more affordable housing? >> no, senator. i do not see anything in the budget to do that. we had the affordable housing communities initiative, though, that was run through the office of community planning and development and it certainly is an area if i'm confirmed i would like to share the result of that program and the efforts and to work with the secretary. >> i appreciate very much. i'm -- you've been very kind. so i will at this point just thank you for your very kind comments. thank you. >> thank you, senator. >> thank you, senator. that concludes the questioning. before i give a couple final announcements, i want to thank each of you for coming and appearing here today and participating at the hearing and thank you for your service and your willingness to give more service to the country. for senators, all follow-on questions need to be submitted by thursday and for our

witnesses responses to those questions are due by monday morning. so please respond quickly to the questions that you may get. with that, the hearing is adjourned.

in case you missed it on c-span, veterans affairs secretary david shulkin on the state of the va. >> 20 veterans a day are dying by suicide. that should be unacceptable to all of us. this is a national public health crisis and it requires solutions that not only va will work on but all of government and other

partnerships in the private sector, non-profit organizations. >> fordham university law professor teachout on corruption in the u.s. government. >> there's a splitting community and it relates to the incredible class split we have in this country and mark twain, whom you can go to for almost anything, writes about this in his novel "the guilded age" is the two different languages of corruption that happened in the late 19th century where elites start to say, hey, this isn't really corrupt. this is just the way we do things and everybody else says, you know, talks like a duck, walks like a duck, it is a duck. >> talking about free speech and censorship on college campuses. >> call it a defacto tax on free speech, i kind of agree with them. i do agree they're being placed in a very tricky position when they can't invite the speakers they want to speak because there will be violence. and, you know, to greg's point, i think that when you give in to

threats, you know, when you give in to threats of violence, when the university gives in to tlets, you're basically allowing the violent agitators to be successful before they land one punch and i think that's a very dangerous precedent to set when you prevent a speaker from speaking because of the threats of violence. >> hillary clinton talks about the 2016 presidential election and her upcoming book. >> you may think you know what happened and you may be right to a certain extent based on what you've perceived and how you process it. but i'm going to tell you how i saw it and what i felt and what i thought because you cannot make up what happened. >> c-span programs are available at c-span.org. on our home page and by searching the video library. next, a discussion on t