the line? >> i think there is such a thing as the truth. if you believe the world is flat the world does not need you to believe that it's round so that is where i started and it is a

belief that is enormously eroded in recent times and very strangely they've done a flip and it's crazy stuff from the internet and maybe malicious and put there by russians specifically targeting bernie sanders. now in the post election, the white house from which all flows

it is now in the mainstream media. that is a very unstable society. how would you assess the health of the so called main stream media.

i believe nothing is true and everything is possible and it is an account of post-soviet russ russia. his account of how the russian government uses information as a political tool and it's not a 20th century soviet union model of pressing particular views on policy questions or cultural issues. it's much more free-flowing and much more difficult to nail down and you see it is at work at a place like russia that is the state affiliate of the

broadcaster and it manifests itself in extensive coverage of the series and highly entertaining but it is under the guise of news and was a loyal viewer today comes away with not really knowing what to believe and i think that is the danger that is easier to manipulate and in that sense the propaganda where you're not telling people what to think tha but for them o know is the danger and you mentioned statistics another institution does the news media

with people not really knowing what they know and thinking that their opinion is valid and important. i live in washington, d.c. where everyone has an opinion and can write and that doesn't make you special and no one cares what your opinion is and unless you are a renowned commentator you should be measured according to the facts you bring to the table and it is a rare trait among reporters as he more value than putting the information out there.

>> it is a problem right now although i liked it more when it was in the national enquirer sort of a delightful fake news but now it is a real thing and research has been going on for some time however what should have happened is a self reflection about very poor job we have an understanding of the populace and people have chosen

to latch onto this fake news and it's already been mentioned but it is at historical lows. 32% thought they did a good job conveying the news accurately and honestly end of the number plummets to 14% then there is almost no trust and that happened over a long period of time in recent years they talk about the culture on campus and

it was a shared interest the rolling stone put out a story about this horrible gang rape and it turned out that it was based on something no cover story should have been based on it it was only the most recent example completely getting something wrong on a very important topic. you do that for enough times you lose the trust of the people and it is difficult to push back. >> i was at an event with the

heavy hitters and not one of them had any sense of what was about to happen. "the new york times" was talking about with the headline should be the next day and the way they were discussing it was a foregone conclusion at the time when the polls were actually closing between the reporters that stayed in washington and new york are the editors are based in the major cities and kind of susceptible to the

thinking. they said you know i think you can still do it. it was these industrial areas and she said i was consistently surprised by the people that approached me and they said i'm still going to vote for him. >> it was completely underestimated.

we've looked through a generation where the idea of truth has been disputed in the literary theories from the academy what is your perspective on that? ..

>> >> it is about to rules of evidence and verify ability and the quality of the rational argument actually they did not verify the claims so the idea of the truth that there is a chance you could disapprove it with the evidence it is a fancy way to save lives and there is a political benefit to say that the with fake news it is intended to confuse.

and therefore were conspiracy theories are corrosive and that lies are dressed up as truth and dressed up as a footnote that looks scholarly and scientific even if it may not be most of the people. >> i have a higher opinion of this audience. >> i don't get to say that during this round requires a fair amount of physics with the assumption and relive that it is flat. from the perception pointedly that is irrelevant because of the scale

relationship is not relevant to us. i don't worry about slipping off the curvature of the europe. -- of the earth. now we have a conspiracy theory. now one very important thing to separate people from one another and to create the vacuum of a authoritarianism so when it comes from the white house is not the source but coming from the most powerful place that

this mistrust of news the of that predilection to go -- to leave the things the way they are even if it turns out to me you have verifiable evidence with a hard truth there is a the percentage of the population that would not believe it by those rules of you can determine if it is true or not there are many things that i believe in now to say was wrong in the vacuum with the undermining of a democracy and that is my

view the intention of by the president of the united states himself with mistrusting conspiracy theories people will want to believe them. >> i was thinking about this with those headlines of hillary clinton without any evidence of any kind. >> doctor who would never examined her. >> but yes. matter hall of august of last year the immediate response was nothing more than the conspiracy theory. there was a major cable tv

network that said she is fine but what about donald trump? "the washington post" talk about hillary clinton's health. so if you want to have credibility it treats the question more openly and honestly and then you can trust the media. was it just four years ago with mitt romney? he runs for office from the current republican standards. and because of how liberal he was by running for office he was a mormon and a choir boy a and after a year of

campaign coverage that includes reporters chasing after him in europe what about your dad and this binder of women and make him into a caricature it makes voters think there is nothing we can do to keep the me that - - media from high style -- cost dial. >> we as a public responsible to have an overheated interests in the private lives of candidates. i want to know what they want to do with the country but we like to read about them so it is a commercial operation. second, both candidates were responsible about giving true reliable information so

at the age of 70 they are not fundamentally healthy because of their connection to mortality is a lot closer. so i don't expect either of them. and then with a crackpot dr. dr. give him a hit a drug for haired growth does not work. so my point is that whether he is a liberal republican maybe he is. you no more than i, but i never thought his candidacy was harmed by this uniform and we need to stop reading it. so on the health front neither candidate

distinguishes himself or herself. >> but to your point dealing with political information with the day-to-day political system it is not the perfect academic testing environment in that way but instead you get information that our fallible they get things wrong or say things they shouldn't or inject their own bias so the challenge to the press is to minimize the degree of which that is transmitted. that we would regard the normal process of discovery. >> roosevelt for example. >> getting zero rounds that health aspect in that election i'd think the fact

that a journalist by and large i was raised in new york and live in washington . . . . . on the day to day basis -- basis and not to be informed of a cultural bias that would be interesting if i put in an opinion out there and it is wrong to disregard a very large segment of the populace that i so further distressed so i think there is a human element that makes it much more difficult to conduct that dispassionate arguments >> that is a great title. [laughter]

it seems that we cannot come up with the occasions when the press was horribly wrong and equally with the opposite when they did a service to get things right when people try to conceal. but i think part of the reason mainstream media has fewer working journalists and larger and larger numbers of opinions of people filling up of spaces so there is more opinion and that is a problem that we live in the changed situation where on his first day in office, the president of the united states declared war on the news media.

and declared them to be an enemy and expanded that to be an enemy of the people. i am sure mr. trump is not familiar but he may have heard of it if he has not steve van hands so if he were ana situation where the most powerful authority in the land declares the news media to be his personal adversary that is a changed situation in which that is no longer the game. >> this undermines also with the internet we have the ability to confirm our

beliefs that we don't share a common source any more. >> it must be noted throughout the campaign on the front page of "the new york times" the middle of august the reporter would say what do you do when you think donald trump is a threat to their republic? in that they need to be paid or they would be accused of not upholding journalistic standards to think you have to be this way that israel to sided war you save the presidency is powerful so was the media and has a very narrow set of cultural ideas if you don't share those ideas it does feel you are under threat and under

assault for those heretics' that don't share the same views to highlight them that does field threatening to not be surprised if that feels like a pratt. >> the media ended an enormous job to make that trump candidacy possible. >> they love to have him on so in fact, i think they did a great job to enable him in the first place during the course of the campaign they had far more protest from hillary van trump they

thought themselves were badly treated even more than the trump campaign. >> in their defense did a pretty good job. >> but that was one-sided and as a practitioner we heard about standard practices howdy use snuff out the truth what should reporters be doing?. >> trying to find some information and confirming that it doesn't have to be the papers but my background is in document digging and muckraking and investigative reporting and i find that i am on firmer ground dealing with public record where i

am not relying on the unnamed sources with powless drama in the white house. i find comfort in the factual basis with access journalism there is a proud tradition of that and would word bernstein had their anonymous sources but grounding would of your writing in fact, some of the obvious but rather than speculation by a political staffer with an ax to grind i search for something concrete i can use as the anchor. >> there was a shift when the media went from telling us what happened to telling us what to think. >> there is a fetish of the

data are journalism for everybody who wants to be next with a rush to project the outcome of the political contest is a bad trend that leads people to shoot jump to conclusions and unsupported by the evidence purporting to there is less focus on the outcome. >> so in the american context so when the prime minister says something that is not true it is a consequence far more reaching than any media or my personal life. the prime minister of hungary went on television to say the central european university was a violation of a hungarian law but there was no such lot.

he said it over national television even the government newspaper said there is none at all. so the retraction as this bounce but the un truce has this bounce because who is the voice? the cry me this -- minister and leader of my country and to now to lie in sedgy boldfaced manner. >> but to say he's has not been singularly unsuccessful >> that is why the approval rating is upside down. >> think about eight famous statement you can keep your doctor or your health care plan the media was not skeptical for the entirety of the eight years now the once you do do journalism now six times after he won reelection after obamacare

was passed this is the media question right now the way you build credibility is to hold all people accountable if you adore and love such as president obama or any emotional dislike. [applause] >> this is not fair. of speech that president obama engaged was ahead c would have to determine that he lied or made a mistake. >> because there was analysis going into that. >> i am not defending president obama of but that does not make our right. >> people love to have the

media lecter about but they lost their voice. >> at all believe the media was that deeply in love with president obama i'd think it is retrospective thinking but a change situation the president declared the media to be the enemy that is the situation. period. sova moments in american history are not comparable. so to have the entire force of the state which we know is an extremely important part of democracy. [applause] >> during the obama presidency he did have people who had charges

against them and actually had actions taken against reporters. just last week in california action taken against reporters for how they did their journalism that people are not upset because it was a conservative journalist this is what they should be concerned about no matter. >> why is the french flag on the table? [laughter] >> i actually m share of the advisor leeboard that was just established called shadowing trump. i urge you to follow it i

have a comment 17 different cabinet secretaries including bob rice from the clinton administration or the obama administration of the obama administration. larry and others speaking truth to power. truth trumps lies. i facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. i like to ask, i think rewith living in a truly unprecedented -- i can see when there is contempt for since, for decent, for the media and certainly you dijudiciary so i welcome comments. >> do you have any response or should we move on? >> i think there's a problem in the evidence and i think that's link between the attack ton

fourth estate and also on truths that one doesn't want to believe. there are some things we don't know exactly what it is. that could be made clear as well. i think it's unprecedented and the disregard and you can see it also in the proposals to really diminish the american investment in basic science. when they walk into a hospital they expect to get the best benefits of science. it's in politics or history that science doesn't matter. when it comes to my blood pressure science matters. >> i have a question really on the different models. we have spoken about some of the new models such as millennials

get a significant amount of news from snap chat and other networks. i think there's a new model which is also crowd funded news immedia media. these are some that you face. so what is it that you feel of the evolution of news media and what it would mean for the consumption for the general public going forward? >> well, i get my news daily from twitter for the most part. that's my home page. but i have found -- someone mentioned self-reenforcing tendency or whatever it is. i think it is very easy to

become siloed in an environment like this. i found each of these has its own sort of character in the types of content that you see more widely circulated. really i found twitter being less and less useful as it has become louder and i found myself sort of migrating back to the so called mainstream media. you know, i think delivery, it is a less important characteristic. i'm going to find myself going back to place that is do content well no matter how i get there. whatever delivery mechanism they used to find it, as long as it

is exposing you to new information i think is great. >> one of the problems for a lot of the new media information sites is that they are basically aggravation sites. you know, they are gathering story frs elsewhere. they are not really journalists in the old fashion sense. they are not going out to get the news. they are simply going out read the news and extracting the stories they want to pass onto that particular, you know, audience. until the world can find an economic world in large amounts then it's a much lesser form than the form than is being damaged by it. you know, it is old fashioned leg work. you know --

>> i do think it is a great tend that billionaires have decided their new hobbies will be newspapers. yes, sir. >> if they want to put up the money to support quality journalism i think that's great. >> i saw a story hiring journalists. >> two points i want to raise. one is i'm troubled by an attempt to evaluate trump's push back against the media on a rational basis because it's also the product, seems to me, of

emotion. does it have to do with a man that can't control his emotions? >> i remember when donald trump won the presidency. he said he wouldn't tweet as president. the next morning he was out with a string of insults. you could feel people like oh, this is really going to keep going. twitter is an an maimazing plac. journalists are constantly signaling how they feel about each other. they all have the same snarky reaction and what they think about what he said. they are all saying it.

i feel like they sort of rely on each other. >> i agree. my fear is it's not a spontaneous irrational person, that it's very calculated. kind of a nutty guy can't contain his immediate responses and be president of the united states. oh, he just woke up this morning. like the boy who cried wolf. i think it is immensely calculated and very effective for his base. >> i don't know if it's calculated so much as trump is a creature of the media. he will go back and watch his own appearances on tv and he'll do it with the sound off doond

and do it with his physical presence on television. your determines much more than you actually say. to me it demonstrated he has a profound knowledge of just natural knowledge of how media works and whether or not that's intentional oracle cuelat calcu very good at it. >> he is very smart. we are fortunate as a president he has chose himself to be incompetent authoritarian. if he were a competent authoritarian we would be more much trouble. >> yes. >> thank you for being here. i think that there are two other aspects that are allowing this to happen, one being the actual

al go -- another being the discourse we have seen. you have seen it here today already that the elites should be mistrusted, the people that are thinking and teaching information should be mistrusted. so how should we add creress th? >> i happen to know something like facebook which is the major social engine is taking this as seriously as it can. it is having a real difficulty. they are trying out projects of having established institutions, start fact checking content flagged by users. at the end of the day they are also looking to make a buck.

>> i think the so called left which doesn't really exist in my view, that they are partly guilty for this elite discussion. many america it mixes. when i go in for my surgery, i expect the person to be a member of the elite. i didn't choose her at random. there are some things which is a legitimate expertise that i need to rely on. it can be in belief systems and so forth. so there's kind of a massive reaction. you're absolutely right, mistrust because the elite has been unbelievably smug, unbelievably arrogant, has forgotten how to talk to ordinary people. we talked to ourselves. we don't actually go out to places. let's take the question of

religion. a lot of belief has no respect and they made a big mistake. they need to talk to people who think differently. we are partly prisoners of our own mistakes. >> also consider the possibility at least in the minds of many people it's not just a reaction against elites but that they have been truly wrong. you wouldn't go to your doctor if he was killing every third patient or whatnot. y there are people who believe certain elites whether in the media or politics have not done a good job. it is rejection based on something more than just emotion. >> can i say something about this word? >> elite? >> yes. >> coming from what used to be the left, the term elite would seem to me to apply to a government of billionaires. if we are talking about who is

an elite , when we see the studies of the tiny minority of americans that controls almost all of the wealth in america, that seems to me to be an elite. what we are talking about here is operation of a professional class. it is considered to be the middle class. they are presenting themselves as the men of the people. one of the amazing reversals of this upside down world in which we live. >> my question is i think we are rubbing ahead with all of these things. we didn't define the original premise of what is media. what we see now is people say we

need real noise news. it's always taking shots at the media or people will say that's fake news. look at this. this post on facebook for some obscure web site as if that's not a news media. if it's right it's almost like a secret minority that has oh pressed but they are both putting out news it has to be

real or fake. what is news these days? >> i always as an editor of a site that does try to do hard news, i always defined it as something i didn't know. >> it's hard work to figure out whether something is true. and obviously that's -- i don't

really have an answer to that. i think anyone with a snap chat or what have you can be reporting news. does that make them the media? i think it's an issue in shorthanded terminology. it's hard when you have to look at everyone's different perspective finally you're off into the world and this is my truth and that's her truth. >> i feel sorry for education of that but they taught you. >> it's quite -- >> i should have gone to college. apparently you do it right.

>> thank you very much for having me and for great discussion. what strikes me is we had a long conversation about the benefit that having different believes in a school system adds an enormous value to everyone. as i look at the news media, it seems to me in the mainstream news it's a group of very liberal people reporting the news to basically everyone. is there any consideration at least in the major news media outlets let's say enforcing kind of the equivalent which is different believe systems --

>> i have heard about this so much. i think about all of this. there is very little diversity of thought in news rooms. it's not just a political problem. it has to do with all sorts of other things like religious issues. there's sort of a general group that have the same economic status. they have similar educational backgrounds. it can create a lack of understanding of what's happening in the world. there have been programs that have attempt today reach out and have all been failures. i have thought about maybe since you can't hire people who know a trump voter maybe you have one person who serves as a devil's advocate who will help you see what you got wrong.

>> we'll leave at this point as ben carson is speaking about housing affordability challenges. it's a impose jum hosted by the national housing complex. >> many people i haven't seen for quite some time enjoyed the meeting with some of the award winners. now, last week hud hosted a housing policy forum where i spoke about the housing market. it is stable, secure and sound. we must remain vigilant and very watchful and anticipate more than react. we must be