globe journalist on his book the roads to kamala. camelot.ad to >> in 1960, it was the first time i had heard the word charisma. it was because he had it. richard nixon did not have a. lbj did not have it. kennedy had charisma, and it could have possibly tipped the balance in some peoples minds. and he was smart as hell to. o. >> next, history and an author tj stiles, looks at the civil war experiences of jesse james. as the 16-year-old jesse james

is involved in the civil war. it is just under 90 minutes. >> good afternoon everyone, i am peter carmichael. i am also director of the institute. it is my pleasure to welcome back tj stiles. he spoke yesterday afternoon, as you all know. he spoke on george armstrong, based upon a book that he received the pulitzer prize for. he is the winner of two pulitzer prizes. this afternoon he will be speaking on another misunderstood character, jesse james. hime james -- the study of at the point of

a new wave of civil war scholarship that is focusing on guerrilla warfare. beenf these authors have doing work on what many have considered to be the periphery of the civil war. thanks to these scholars like mr. stiles, we have a view of civil war military history. jesse james unfortunately it's sometimes used as a robin hood figure of the old west. we often see him as being a likeical --apolitical those bandits who have always been compared to him. mr. stiles has taken this man and enabled us to the a man who we should note has left very little written record. but a man who was very political during the civil war. so, it is my pleasure to bring

back to the stage tj stiles. >> thank you very much. my grandfather did some public's thinking, and once before he would talk someone came up to him in the lobby and that -- i really want to go to the ballgame. is this guy really good? >> he said he is pretty good. i have heard he is pretty good. so, if you are disappointed, i apologize. jesse james was my first subject as a biographer. when i wrote about him, i came to him because i wanted to write about the war and reconstruction as one story. i did not want to write a boring story. popularound, was that culture had a significant role in american history.

and rather than debunking him the way that these stories often do with popular figures, i found that he played a much more important role than people had realized enviously. that role is very closely tied to the civil war. i will talk about how the robin hood image emerged. but in fact, the proper way to understand him, and the reason that we even know his way is -- his name is because of the civil war. i will be talking about the civil war a little bit for i can get into gc james. james.e during that part of the history, he is quite young. the guerrilla warfare that wracked missouri during the civil war -- i have a couple of facts on the screen to tell you why that was such a dramatic event and how it gave rise to jesse james. in 18 54, the state conducted a

census and found that it was missing about one third of the 1860 population. -- this census was done in 1864. a lot of them had fled or driven out. or they were displaced for coming. another fact is that in one civilians, of 42% were in the state of missouri. that is more than in talking right areas -- more than in all the occupied areas of the confederate area of occupation. was on the frontier of slavery. 18came into the union in 20th part of the missouri compromise.

init came into the union 1820. if you can see the map, the , anduri river flows west the population density is shown. slavery followed the reverse. peopleulation of white wasalso slaved people densest near the rivers. was not one of the states in which slavery was most pronounced. only about 12% of the population was enslaved in 1850. still, it played an important part in the state economy. the economy and the population are concentrated in the slaveholding counties. also, the state political leaders were slaveholders from the missouri river county especially.

is another fact to remember that slaves were the second-most valuable form of property. those human beings who were held in bondage. so it was very much essential to the state's economy. i will give you some of the details from jesse james's on family and a minute. civility, inouri disruptedcal life was by the kansas-nebraska act. at this time missouri was not it frontier state. especially in the missouri river counties, it was every much a settled,rosperous -- a prosperous area. own father who was a baptist preacher -- that just sid not pay their -- baptist did not pay their preachers.

he was a slave owner and also a farmer. war, he wasrimea selling cotton. so, this is not some self-sustaining frontier town, or person, this is someone who was driving on these nations agricultural economy. gets thrownstate out in disarray by opening up kansas to the idea that settlers in kansas would vote on whether there would be slavery there or or not.ea the proslavery forces, are praying for a mighty state. if we win, we carry slavery to the pacific ocean. we are organizing to meet their -- the anti-slavery forces in new england, and we compelled to

shoot, burn, and hang. but the thing will soon be over. that was at the outset of the betweensettle kansas missourians and people from the northeast. there was already violent rhetoric been used. there are many reasons for this. basically, there is a real sense of a threat that is the free soilers established kansas as a free state, slavery would continue. -- there was aed great ideological struggle over the idea of whether southern states should be able to export their labor system -- slavery into the west, orwell or it could be closed off to slavery. so, people who did not want to

live among african-americans, were fighting for banning slavery, even people who were not slave owners themselves to read it was wrapped up in several different political issues and cultural issues. so, in the state of missouri, the state mobilized to spread slavery into kansas. in 1854 in june, there were mass meetings across kansas and the state. jesse james's mother died and his father remarried. an area closer to the western frontier. so, this was happening in their home county. plattesand men joined the

county self-defense organization, basically a militia organization to go and defend the area from kansas. fighting out in kansas. people were raising money and organizing. so, we have the proslavery aid organization formed. in 1855, a group of border uffians capture the arsenal. that gives you an idea of how people were militant that they were actually seizing a federal arsenal inside missouri. what happens is that this mobilization divides people within missouri. was an underreported and under discussed aspect of the fight. 200 people killed in the civil war in kansas in 1850.

but within missouri, a real polarization is created. mentioned, on july 29, 1854, a preacher who is seen as anti-slavery is on trial in his own church. the man who organizes this is a strident close slavery ideologue who argues that slavery is necessary for white people to be free. he says that everyone works for a living is a slave and every poor white working woman is a horrible. whores that -- is a so he says we need to have slavery to remain free. there were people who were notsed to slavery but because they were ideologically opposed to it but because they did not want a war fought for it. 1855, anything newspaper that was critical to the war going on

in kansas was destroyed by a mob. in clay county, a mass meeting denounced "traitors in our midst midst. and a secession was endorsed six years before the civil war. missouri was divided very firmly into the union and pro-secession camps. it does not mean that it is equal to being pro-and anti-slavery. of the german population which was strong and missouri, were anti-slavery and there were people who were proslavery but did not believe in the union. there were also slave owners who

said that if we succeed, what will those the benefit of the fugitive slave act. we will have an internal -- international boundary and lose our power. so it wasn't necessarily an anti-slavery thing. it was polarized because of the intolerance of dissent -- when it came to the secessionist movement. there is a confession of -- a convention on secession. the governor jackson is very much in favor of secession. he organizes estate guard, and there is a clash with the whoral nathaniel lyon retreats to the southwest. killed in a battle there, push new fourth is led to

the other general out of the state. this point, traditionally he is starting to lose interest in missouri. everything was fine. instead, a massive guerrilla campaign breaks out. there is a traditional answer for that. it is very important in the jesse james myth. especially if he is from western missouri. and that is that the anti-slavery men who were fighting alongside john brown in kansas, they want revenge. though they march in and terrorize and vote and --loot and pillage in western missouri and so those people in western missouri writes up to defend themselves. there is some truth to this.

this absolutely did take place. however, if you notice i have interest -- illustrated mostly how it took place. the problem is that fighting broke out across the state all along the missouri and mississippi river valley. i am focusing on jesse james, unfortunately i will add to the misconception that this was a war, because jesse james was on the western side. in fact, the fighting took place across the state. as you can see, there were union refugees being driven into the major towns held by union forces in 1861. an againstissouri misery and warfare -- against missourian warfare.

published after my book came out, shows that the pro-secessionist missouri state members along the missouri river valley, carried out the scheme to find the mobilization of arming and equipping secessionist state guards. naturally, the secession movement failed. they did not get reimbursed by the confederate government. so what happened? the union took over those states and will come back to that later on. so what happens in the guerrilla warfare? i will get to jesse james in a minute to read it is important to think about what it is exactly we are talking about. this was concentrated in the slave holding areas. these leaders of those groups

fighting in those areas tended to be from the wealthier families. they had been leaders in their counties especially. led had let -- they organizations of secessionist groups. groups with no central direction. we're not talking about mosby who actually had a direct tie to the command. these groups were not responding to orders or any centralized strategy. theyhat means that one, were almost impossible to crush out. if you crossed out one squad another one would continue operating. if you killed one guerrilla leader another one would show up. that itnd thing is never represents a real threat on its own to seizing control geographically of missouri.

it is a constant running source for the union, yet they are never actually in danger of losing missouri. that has an important effect. we'll get to it in a second. another thing about this warfare is the tactics used. these were very close ranged clashes. a lot of ambushes. a lot of heavy use of close-range weapons particularly colt revolver. the confederates were known to carry as much of half a dozen revolvers. in a clash they would pull the revolver and fire it until it was empty or jammed, drop it down and pull out another one. it was very intense close range friday. they also developed over time some very sophisticated tactics. not only ambushes, but they also began to use decoy ambushes

where they would send someone to lure the union forces into a trap. they also carried out operations designed to trick and trap union forces after a clash. they would then disperse. familiar tog very guerrilla warfare was increasingly as the war went on, again they would not seize formal control of missouri, but they were trying to carry out a political cleansing. case withn the guerrilla warfare, the target becomes civilians. so, in the case of confederate ,ealist, david -- guerrillas they began to attack people and terrorize people who were leaders of the unionist population.

increasingly they carry out to trick people into revealing their true allegiances to rid they would go to a farmhouse and ask for food. if they were given food willingly, they would burn out the house and often killed a man on your doorsteps. in fact, a savagery begins to creep in. by 1863 and 1864 you were seeing summary executions, the killing .f prisoners after a clash in 1864 you even begin scalping -- you begin to see mutilations, scalping, severing of heads. this war became increasingly a war of terror. the last thing is that the confederate guerrillas went to refuge in texas. in winter, they were easier to track the snow fell. so they would withdraw.

that would make it very hard to stamp out. in texas, the conventional confederate authorities were not happy about these wild man from missouri. so, there was a counterinsurgency. it is important to note that in jesse james career, this was a war that was actually mostly fought on the union side by missourians. the government that replaced governor jackson, created the missouri state militia, organized like the cavalry of the union volunteers. they were supplemented by a range of local county-based militias. they had -- one of them was a provisional militia and the militia,missouri basically confederates who were at home and turned out to be disloyal. they created a hardened core

that added to the cycle of violence. you had men who were most strongly union fighting against their neighbors. the local neighbor against neighbor fighting more intense. they also developed ranges of tactics such as carrying out patrols. when there was a confederate guerrilla raid, they would pursue them. they targeted enemy camps, trying to get intelligence. in those river bottoms, heavy brushes. they began to carry out its gated tactics like the decoy ambush or the hammer and anvil. evidence of a local union officer putting two sending twod companies up on the other side of the creek to drive the confederate out of the brush toward the anvil waiting at the

other end. in one case that i will get to in a minute, the confederate anticipated this and the lured the union forced into an ambush. thise case for example, level ofoth the rising atrocity in both sides, the missouri state militia commander in clay county went out and was searching for a confederate -- searching for confederate rebels in august 1862 and found a camp of guerrillas and attacked them. he wrote the report -- previous to attacking their camp i found three men who denied having any .nowledge of any cap gathering after the skirmishes over i sent two of them out and had them shot. so, this shows you the level of intensity.

all they did was not report on what he thought the new, and he has them shot. and he puts it in an official report. it gets worse from there. martial law was carried out a network of marshals. usually based in county the, often with local ties gathering information. the countryside was rife with both secessionist and unionist reporting on each other. there were other measures carried out -- for example, all men were required to enroll in the missouri militia and if they were known to be secessionist or refused, they were enrolled as disloyal. so they were creating a list of suspects on the other side. they had to pay a fine, and like the confederates were doing, they were taxing the other side. so again, the warfare was falling on the civilians. only were the searching

homes, not only were they interrogating and -- registering the disloyal, they also began to carry out torture and finally, mass the population. now, there is an aspect again of the guerrilla legend of jesse james's legend which has an element of truth. there was a border war aspect to the guerrilla warfare in missouri. cantrell who does not himself from missouri, but was famous among the guerrilla leaders, -- he was quite good at real warfare. in 1863 he carried out when of the most infamous incidents in the civil war. he led a force of guerrillas into kansas and attacked the capital of the abolitionist movement in kansas and killed approximately 200 men and boys.

burning down the town. again, missouri had its own cycle of violence. yet, they also saw themselves as confederate. a low point for the confederacy. this was after it is berg. -- gettysburg and after a wave of masses hate, slaves still being held in slavery in western missouri. on top of that there were a number of women taken prisoner, sisters and female relatives of guerrillas. they were concentrated in the building in kansas city. there was a building collapse and some of them were killed. so there was personal revenge desired by the guerrillas. there was definitely a personal aspect. wkerlane was a strong jayha

and was a u.s. senator. he was also a leader of raids into kansas. he was pursued. with ann responded action that they had considered beforehand -- the brother-in-law of sherman, a general who was commanding in western missouri -- they carried out an action number 11,ral order which made the civilians of accurate their farms and leave. it led to a famous painting owned the state historical society in missouri which is 11.led order # it has a strong element of truth

but also a propaganda aspect. it shows an area where crops and forms are being burned. the attempt to drain the place of civilians who were supporting guerrilla warfare. the jamese finally to family. his father had remarried. this was a family that was not poor. they owned seven slaves in 1860, more black faces on that farm than white ones. that put them at double the level of slaves holding in clay county. they were very much a part of the commercial economy. this is not the story of deprivation. for farmers who were not paying attention to the world, they were sophisticated and well educated people. his father was also up -- his mother was also outspokenly confederate in her

he fought at wilson's creek. he did not need to be pushed to the confederate side. again, the idea that they had no opinions until they were terrorized is not true. frank took part in a number of actions, including this disruption i mentioned of a hammer and anvil operation. after they had disrupted this operation, frank and the group ofwas with were hiding out the james annual farm -- james samuel farm.

they went on the farm and they knew --epfather if they if he knew where the girl is -- where the guerrillas were. the militia judged him to be speaking falsely. once procured a rope, placed it around his neck, and gave him one good swing. his memory brightened up, and he concluded to reveal the hiding place of the rebels. he led the boys into the wood a short distance, and it was discovered the whole band, including his stepson. as a result of this, it placed samuel in a rather awkward position. he later asked permission to leave the state. escape.mes managed to

ruben samuel was arrested. they were both paroled. report.muel had to franklin took part in the lawrence massacre. he went off to texas and he came back with a group led by fletch taylor. that photograph shows frank james in the middle and then his younger brother jesse. shows a typical confederate guerrilla outfit, a guerrilla sure to come and

heavily embroidered by the women in the family. another young man part of the group, his name was archie clement. in 1864 at the age of 16 joins the guerrillas. are they fighting against j hawkers? they go house to house murdering old neighbors who were unionists. they killed eight farmers who were not engaged in combat, who were at home working. one case, they found a unionist farmer in the field. jesse james and this group takes part in killing eight men. he was a part of a death squad.

a part of political cleansing of clay county. action, theyf this are pursued by the local marshall. ambush them. it was a combination of actual combat between sherman and warfare on the population. james --s, jesse fletch taylor takes a shotgun to the arm. jesse james and fletch taylor ride to join a man named bloody bill anderson. he earned his name. he was one of the most ruthless killers in missouri. he engages in some of the most savage war share -- warfare on the confederate side.

famous,rson group was rather, infamous, for their mutilation of the dead. they often made a regular practice of murdering any prisoners that fell into their hands. i am getting ahead of myself. he takes part in the james brothers -- the james brothers take part of an operation where they pull 22 unarmed soldiers returning home on leave and they murdered them by the side of the railroad tracks. they ambush a pursuing union force and managed to wipe it out and they murder everyone of the men who tried to surrender. over 100 men were executed. jesse james got credit for killing the commander. dismemberment and scalping

taking place. this is his introduction to warfare. automotive 1864, conventional warfare back to missouri -- the autumn off 1864 -- the ottoman 1864, conventional warfare back to missouri. he got bogged down in besieging a fort. as a result, the union had time to rush conventional troops in. he found jefferson city and eventually marches over to westport and kansas city, where there is a major battle. -- there is no central direction of those confederate guerrillas.

giving him an opportunity to advance and sees important points while the union forces are split up. since these groups do not have central direction, they respond to his invasion by going to his army. most of thetes confederate guerrillas with his conventional army and a lot of the guerrilla leadership is wiped out. it is the opposite of what they should have done. there is no one who was part of the confederate chain of command in the guerrilla movement. instead of taking the war to another level, it ended up knocking it down a notch. at westport, he is badly defeated any has to retreat and it knocks the wind out of confederate guerrilla movement.

anderson is to ruthless, he is too much. what i would like you to do is go across the missouri river, go the opposite direction of where i am going. he does not do that. he gets lured into an ambush. he gets the quite himself and gets killed -- decoyed himself and gets killed. the james family, they are targeted and there is a very interesting report that is written in which the provost marshal is requesting intelligence and notes the james boys were with bill anderson and assisted in the murdering of 22 unarmed soldiers.

his report justifying the banishment of the civilian james samuel family. i speak from my own personal knowledge. he heard a neighbor being challenged by a neighbor, aren't you ashamed of what your boys are doing? she rejoined that she was not. she prayed to god to protect them in their work. i regard her as one of the worst women in this state. the family was banished and they would have been sent across the union lines to the confederacy. they get sent to a much worse place, to nebraska. i jumped ahead a little bit. bill anderson was killed. retreats with archie clement to texas.

they come back in the spring of 1865 to find former civil war is -- formal civil war is over. , it is a republican movement. strongest unionists, most active become republican. they carry out state emancipation. they are not part of the union argued -- occupation confederacy and when the construction ask passed. -- acts are you have to swear that you did of do one of 86 acts disloyalty.

is a soft conservative unionist movement. unionists.e stronger minority andare a they can only maintain power. they do have a positive vision for missouri. by keeping the confederates out of politics. by doing this, there is no large black population to rely on as a voting bloc, they have to keep the confederate down. they create, there is no political outlet for the discontent and they begin to alienate the moderate unionists who become the democratic party in missouri after the civil war.

archie clement leads a group back -- i am running out of time. archie clement does not surrender. a lot of confederate guerrillas say, there is no point in carrying on. archie clement demands the surrender of lexington at the end of may, 1865. this is someone who is not willing to stop sacrificing. he never gives up. jesse james himself is badly wounded. the only -- the first time i can confirm he exchanged fire with non-confederate -- non-missouri troops is when he has a gunfight with the musk -- with the wisconsin troops. in 1866, archie clement comes back. this is the election that decides the fate of reconstruction. this is the one i talked about

yesterday. andrew johnson goes on the stump union.ning for the radicals come up with a 14th amendment. they have a new vision that is including black people in the union. this is a violent election air -- election year in missouri. you have a republican gangs, archie clement, resisting from the confederate side. this year starts off with a countingf the clay savings association -- clay county savings association. there are two banks in town. they pick the one that is owned by the former union militia officers. a week after they had the first republican party rally. this is a target. they are getting easy money.

they also pick a political target. archie clement and his gang intimidates registration officials. the sheriff of clay county saying union men are terror tied -- terrified. everyone has a pistol strapped to their hip. violence in turmoil. at the end of 1866, on election day, archie clement leads his of 1866.this is fall he occupies the town of lexington and swings the election to the democrats. the state governor declares a state of emergency. archie clement in sub being killed.being

1869, you can certainly ask questions, jesse james has a choice. all of his old guerrilla leaders, they have all been killed or captured were given up . -- or given up. in 1869, jesse james and his aother frank go to rob savings association. because they believe the cashier is the militia leader who had ambushed and killed bloody bill anderson. they grab nothing of value but jesse james makes up the man across the counter. at the escape from the scene, they boast about how he has killed the man who killed bloody bill anderson.

himhorse reared and through and he had to steal a farmer source. him and he had to steal a farmer's horse. famous.es jesse james he had been a teenager in the civil war and his name becomes famous. he comes to the attention of a newspaper editor who had been a confederate adjutant to the confederate missouri cavalry commander. he comes back from exile in mexico with a plan to bring the confederates back into politics and to take over the democratic party. if they can convince missourians they were really a southern state, he can create the myth of the unionist coming in from

kansas and terrorizing missouri -- he wants to take a confederate victory in peacetime. jesse james begins to write letters to the kansas city times in which he says, i'm innocent. radicals whoammed are targeting me because i stood up for southern rights. innocent, but i will fight to the end. he becomes a symbol of the martyrdom that many feel they are suffering. they carry out robberies and they are criminals. violent men.

likes seeing people cower. he likes not having to work for a living. he is in it for the money. i do not exaggerate the politics of his career. confederate was such a great excuse -- if being a confederate was such a great excuse, why is he the only one doing it? onlyd his brother are the ones who are singled out for rewards by the governor of missouri above $300. the confederates put a limit on rewards for $300. this, 1872, jesse james carried out a robbery. top left, one of those quotes i

mentioned. i don't care what the radical party thinks about me. a kind of link at the audience wink at the audience. letterames writes in a to the press, i believe jesse james did write these letters because when he moves to tennessee, he writes very similar letters to the local press. let party of men commit a bold robbery. grant and his party can steal millions and that is all right. it hurts me very much to be called a thief. campaign reelection for grant.

grants party has no respect for anyone. they rob the poor and rich and we rob the rich and give to the poor. that --lose by hoping anyone. it may have been edited by edwards. he is writing very political, very similar letters to other newspapers. it is very much in a political context. other events take place. , they launch a raid in the farmhouse. device.ow an incendiary or

this becomes a major event. the people who support the pinkertons are old militiaists. and the james brothers end up killing him outside his house. 1876, this is the climax of his life in my book. i believe the evidence strongly suggests that when one of the younger's was captured, the day after the disastrous minnesota robbery, he spoke the truth when he said they learned the former governor robert hayes, -- ,elbert hayes, union general went on to be the reconstruction governor and the senator of mississippi. he had been driven out of mississippi by the insurrection of 1875, and where did he go?

minnesota. him in 1876,get presidential election year. did they intend to have any impact on the election? maybe. up.gang split very interesting man. one of the most fascinating people. you can see one of the new gang members was killed in the streets. he looks little bit like my father, who always claimed the relation. there is no relation. the gang is wiped out, except for the james brothers. and they tried to live

peacefully. frank can do it. jesse can't. the reconstruction has ended. the confederates dominate politics in missouri. jesse james has no political excuse. there is so more fight. he is now just a violent man in it for the money. his second bandit career lasts a couple of years. the governor of missouri manages to make a deal, who famously shoots jesse james in the back of the head. thing for jesse james. that secured his myth as the american robin hood. he could not stay out of the outlaw life. if he had just laid quietly, he would have probably been forgotten. he certainly would not be

remembered as the american robin hood. because he came back, no more political context, that doomed ,o him and changed his image taking out the whole political context that kept him alive for so long. jesse james's widow was not so happy. bob ford shot him in the back of the head and left him the man you see in the casket there. thank you very much. [applause] again, let's take some questions and if not, i will just go on for a few more minutes. i know i talked very quickly because there is so much to talk about, but this is a civil war conference, i heard, and second of all, second of all, that really is the key to understanding jesse james. no civil war, no jesse james. it's really that simple.

yes, sir? >> i'm just curious about jesse james in terms of the man. in a way, at least for me, he reminds me a little of on -- john dillinger. he was using the cover of the skillsar to extend the of killing he had acquired during the civil war that he was psychopath, basically, like bloody bill anderson. he was brutalized and trained to kill as a confederate soldier and he enjoyed that experience and carried that into the peacetime world. mr. stiles: yeah, i think that

is absolutely true. one very fruitful way of thinking about him, which is a sociologist talked about experiences that typically violent criminals have in common. i think that absolutely applies to jesse james. he could not live quietly even when there was no politics area -- politics. however i don't believe his , partisanship and his politics are mutually exclusive with having a violent personality and inability to make an honest living. i think that if they were mutually exclusive, or rather, it was a good excuse, there would have been all kinds of outlaws claiming political motives. why would the other outlaws also be outputting their names out there, writing letters to the press? the fact is it is jesse james in particular who comes to the attention of edwards and even when he is away from edwards carries on.

i think both are true. he at a violent personality. he might have led a life of crime under any circumstances, but this is what distinguishes him. when i look at the politics of the time and how people were deeply partisan and how deeply divided missouri was, it makes sense that he was very political and he had to argue against evidence to say that he was not really political and had no real views. when you are in the position of that, you are on shaky ground. you make a valid point. it's just the other side of this is also true. >> i guess in a broader context, i would imagine individuals who are not perhaps so overtly political as jesse james, but in the american west to that followed, the gunplay, people wore guns on their hips like you see in these pictures -- there were other civil war veterans

who contributed to that culture of violence. can you speak to that? mr. stiles: yeah, wild bill hickok, one of the more -- most famous gunmen in the west, he had been a union scout in missouri. in fact, our typical main street walked down, two guys face each other and walked down main street. everyone runs for cover, that happened in springfield, missouri, between wild bill hickok happened in sprinkled, missouri in 1865 between wild bill had got in a confederate rebel named dave tut. my mentor, though i do not lately agree with him, one of the great scholars of violence in american history, richard maxwell brown, he sees a pattern of violence in which wartime loyalty is -- he calls it the western civil war of incorporation, that all of these

individually separate actions are part of people trying to incorporate the west into american society. and those people tended to be republicans and they tended to be associated with the union. confederates,ex- people who had, you know, less market centered incorporation centered livelihoods who were on the other side. there's a big very that breaks down a lot of details. it has some very interesting insights. missouri specifically and also the civil war influences the violence in the west in a gateway. yes, sir, in the back? >> in your research, did you come across information about harry truman's ancestral family, that is his mother's home was burned and they were banished? did they -- mr. stiles: i ran across this at another time. the first time that harry truman in the 20th century makes a trip

into kansas, his grandmother says, look for the spoons that bj hawkers stole. -- that the jayhawkers stall. -- stole. >> i heard they were part of that group. mr. stiles: they were in jackson county, i believe. that is certainly where he was from personally. they might have been uprooted. the depopulation did not last long because it was such a radical policy, the union decided, ok, you got to let them go back. if they had kept them out, it might have tamped down the guerrilla warfare. i will take the next question behind a cause you have been waiting longer. >> it struck me as this was almost genocidal in intense.

-- in intent. do think that's an accurate way of describing guerrilla warfare, at least semi-genocidal? mr. stiles: genocide is tough. that usually means targeting a specific group for extermination. we have the term ethnic cleansing and i use the term political cleansing. they are not necessarily trying to murder every single person. white women, at least, were rarely targeted for murder. when jesse james was on that death squads in 1864, they are murdering the men and they are making sure the widows know. it's incredibly bloody, but it's not wiping out a whole population. it sounds like an apology to try to draw fine distinctions between mass murder, but they are not actually trying to literally murder every single person. even in lawrence, they killed the men, they did not kill the women. absolutely was raped more often,

absolutely was violence against women, but you often see resistance to that. if you can't call it genocide, but certainly there is mass murder with the purpose of changing the civilian landscape. yes, ma'am? >> jesse james was more a product of his environment. you feel that way because he was so young when he saw those events take place? he was so selective for who he killed down who he went after. they were all unionists. he had seen violence from unionists as a young man. certainly that continued through his life, losing his brother, losing family members, yet his older brother was kind of forgiven and pardons. he wasn't and did not have the same benefits because he was younger and more refined as far as his brother's influence on

his education and the way he would spout off shakespeare as he was robbing people. his attitudes were very different. i wonder if his youthful exuberance led him to be more violent? mr. stiles: or murderess. murderesous.ntly frank james was in fact someone who loved shakespeare. they robbed a train at ghazal which is where falstaff robbed the prisoners -- he quoted shakespeare as they went through -- they knew theater. also on the first train robbery in 1873, they wore masks that the kansas city times described as a time when -- they were

reaching a climax in kentucky where they had close ties. there were trials going on. they carried out this train robbery. there were these masks. so, the feeder was part of those robberies. that's a little divergent. yes, frank was someone who is able to get over the violence that he in toward. he was a little older. i think the earlier impact of all of that violence -- but we have to remember, part of that idea is coaching and his mother was strongly political. again, these are innocents in the woods. she criticized the newspaper editor by name because she did not like the politics.

this is someone who is trained and taught to be utterly militant and ruthless. he could be charming. he could be funny. at the end of his life, he moved back to western missouri, and he settled in st. joseph, as people know who visited the house where he was killed. and he went to a railroad station and applied for work saying he had a lot of experience to train for work. he was so funny. i loved brad pitt's performance. he captured something really true. i think that jesse james's personality, like i said, he would have been a violent man in the civil war no matter what. you have is a violent personally, this mileage

-- this violent training he could never shake. by the way, don't look for big deposits of his loot. armed robbers are not big savers. it's kind of a disincentive for saving for a rainy day. he always had nice clothes, nice horses, loved gambling. with that long are of 10 years after the civil war, he survived so long because he has got support, because he makes a point, i think sincerely, of saying, listen, i'm a political figure. if nothing else, a political symbol. and he's got an ally in the press, very influential in the democratic party that makes him a significant figure as missouri realigns after the confederates come back into the ballot box.

yes, sir? >> any idea why they began resorting to torture and mutilation? mr. stiles: people are -- most of the north as well as the south is agricultural. people are slaughtering pigs all the time. they are not really friends here. but the confederate general -- he owned a rope factory. he raised him and made rope and sold it. these are not frontier in the sense of unsettled, unincorporated into the american economy. these are well-established civil institutions, market institutions. it's the nature of guerrilla warfare when you literally have neighbors fighting against

neighbors. you've got to control the civilian population on both sides. when people are rating -- even before -- when people are raiding, even before they start killing people, they are raiding peoples houses. the union forces are bringing people outs. it cycled up very quickly. there are a few figures like bloody bill anderson who are leaders who were emphasizing the ruthlessness and pushing it. a lot of the men are fighting anderson. they are decorating their bridles and saddles with scouts, anderson's men's scalps as well. it's not the side of good against harkness as much as i think slavery is bad -- in missouri, both sides are very ruthless. i have to think it is because it is a war of the population against the population that is

right next door. another quick question. >> i have done some research being involved with the battle of westport. somebody brought up truman. it turns out that truman had two ancestors in the confederate army. one, his uncle was involved in some of these activities. apparently when his mother came to visit in the white house, she refused to sleep in the lincoln bedroom. [laughter] mr. stiles: yeah, i believe it. and yet, who desegregated the u.s. military? it was truman. by the way, missouri today -- i should mention that bank they

robbed owned by union militiamen, it existed before the civil war. it was one of those banks that was owned by leading secessionists who cut aid check cuttings game and lost control of the bank. the banks, that is where the money is, and yet they were also political targets. these were very shrewd people. when jesse james robbed to trains that is because he understood the national bank act. the creation of the greenback and giving national charters, they were required by law to keep reserve deposits in new york. so, all your long, they are shipping cash to new york banks and when the harvest happens, they ship cash back so everybody has cash for the transactions of the harvest, etc. there's a seasonal flow of cash. it's going by express car. they usually did not rob passengers. they robbed trains going the right direction.

it was flowing south at a time when they were flowing south for the cotton harvest. these are not rubes finding some easy excuse. if we know it better -- i could try to make an exaggerated thing to say jesse james is a terrorist. i use terrorism very carefully to say this is the kind of framework in which we need to be thinking about him. in some ways he is a front runner. i was even more careful afterwards not to push it too far. and yet we have to argue against the evidence of we say there was no politics involved in his desire to be a public figure and in his public impact.

and again, it is the lacked of a political context that turned him into a generic outlaw, a very daring and flamboyant one, but a generic outlaw at the end of his life and turns him into someone you could write folksongs about and people living on yankee land are seeing is a great folk hero fighting the appropriation. so, how my going to write about the rise of the corporate economy in the railroad world? thank you very much. [applause] >> this weekend on american history tv, at 8:00, appalachian state university professor discusses union general failed attempt to take the capital in

richmond. he is so dead set on making sure he does not concede anything to lincoln, he puts his army on the virginia peninsula. it will be the worst possible place to launch his campaign. p.m., margo 6:30 burns talks about the primary sources from the salem witch trials. reason why we know so much about salem village and why we know so much about the pleas of innocence. there is a reason arthur miller poached from this because it reads like a play. he says this, she says this. all of those descriptions, he

was reconstituting it from the shorthand. >> former boston globe journalist curtis wilkie on the road to camelot, inside jfk's campaign. >> i was a junior in college and it was the first time i ever heard the word charisma. it was because he had charisma. richard nixon did not have charisma. lbj did not have charisma. jack kennedy had charisma. >> for our complete american history tv schedule, o2 c-span.org. -- go to c-span.org. where history unfolds daily. in 1970 nine, c-span was created

as a public service by america's cable television companies and is brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. >> up next on american history tv, we trace the american views of aging to the last 50 years including a cultural shift in the 1950's away from revering the elderly and embracing youth culture. the author of aging in america posted this program. it is about 40 minutes. >> published in february of this year by the university of pennsylvania. aging in america chronicles the history of aging in the u.s. from been revered in early america to being prevented, a disease that science will one day cure. dr. lawrence samuel