the military or banks so this is a hobby. watch on c-span and c-span.org.atch on c-span and listen on the free c-span radio app. 50this year marks the anniversary of what some call the 1967 new york new jersey rebellion. next a panel of activist accounttheir first-hand of those events, and the change if prompted for new jersey's largest city. this hour-long discussion was hosted by the mist slowly and african-american -- smithsonian's african-american history museum. >> our first discussion entitled , a rebellion explored will be moderated by michael fletcher who is the senior writer for espn, the undefeated. after 21 years at the washington post covering the white house

and race relations. mr. fletcher will be joined on lindanel by panel list caldwell apps, who is the president and ceo of 1804 consultants, an organization dedicated to the success of cultural organizations. noted attorney and musician and educator who currently directs the leadership institute at rutgers university in newark. mark, whose breath of work in higher education and the humanities in new york include serving as the director of the alexander price institute on at the city, culture and modern experience. the author of a recent book on new work and the rebellion of 1967. please join me in welcoming michael fletcher, junius williams, and linda caldwell apps to the stage. [applause]

>> i should interject that at the end of the panel discussion there will be a few moments for questions and answers. members of the panel will take those questions and we will conclude this panel and move on to our next presentation. thank you. >> good afternoon, everyone. what i hope to do here is just have a conversation and talk about what newark was like before 1967, and how it came to be that way. also, talk about what has transpired since. like political empowerment, what has resulted from those

developments. i thought i would start with -- talk a little bit to us about the black population in newark. added it get to be a magnet for the great black migration and what kinds of jobs were people coming to get, what conditions that they find when they arrived there? >> first of all, new jersey is the northern most southern state. [laughter] you laugh because it is ironic, but as such, who was one of the first places that you would reach coming from the south. it was important on the underground railroad. it had a reputation as being the crossroads. more important, during the great actually, a little

before that, starting at 1890, workanufacturing industry locations between philadelphia and new york. seaport.nderful it attracted many to come to seek their fortune in new york. north port at the time was probably the largest in the northeast. there were jobs. factories during world war i were humming and buzzing. the immigrant population that had worked in those factories were off to war. south came uphe to work in most factories. because ip there could go on.

[laughter] newark had always had an african-american population, both free and people who were in bondage. as you get closer to 1967, talk about newark. >> newark is one of the famous pig northeast cities that is famously black. cities --y northeast one of the famous north the that is famously black. talk to us about leading up to that. thank you for having us here on this. i look out and see a lot of , and weom newark, d.c. .ad a conversation about this

he was quite a man. the question. let me just get directly to the answer to this. did we have representation? no. there were two city council persons at best time -- at this time. one was irvine, who was the first black elected officials elect it in 1954 as a city councilman. first, that was quite something because, power concedes nothing without a demand. had the stuff to back it up. that is the kind of election it was, as are all the elections. he and the other city councilman, who were in leg did

, theycted as a councilman were of salt by the traditional power structure, which at that time was run by an italian mayor. he was interested in becoming the first italian governor in the state of new jersey. of the issues that were ,aiting down upon black people yourty, break that down, have schools, you had teachers that did not want to teach this particular group. you had a welfare workers that did not want to give the check to the people even though they were deserving of it. you have landlords who would charge high rent for shacks.

newark you had people who had to live in cold water flats. this is just like it was in the south. on top of that, you had the police who were controlling the plantations. force was police white. mostly irish and italian in a city that was 58% black. did,y cared what they least of all the mayor and those who are in power. there was another group of people who were coming in, part of the civil rights movement, it had not yet become black power, but it was going towards that. we were raising people's expectations.

this is not normal, this is not what you are entitled to. people who were already there, people who came in later. you had that conflict between blacks who are inside the government, and black people who are outside the government. you had whites in power who were fronted i blacks, and you had blacks who were supported by whites. 1964, lyndon in famously launched the great society. why did that not do more to improve conditions? >> i would say, first, it did do some amazing things in newark. it did not solve all of the problems, but i can get back to that. it did not do all

that people had hopes, all that maybe it could have is that it was resisted from the get go. often times we hear the story that the war on poverty was called off because money for the vietnam war was being drained away from domestic social programs, but even before we sent the first ground troops to vietnam in 1965, the newark city council had decided not to provide their portion of the funding for the local war on poverty. they recognized it for what it ended up being, sort of a fostering ground for political dissent for political alternative. for a think a lot of black 1959,s who had, since were aware that their city would be the first majority black city in the northeast. and saw the war on poverty

solve the social programs is a real opportunity. they were constructed to be independent of city hall. that,was this knowledge and k, we are, if not already, on the verge of this city. we areers that disenfranchising them on multiple fields. downthis program comes from the federal government and they see real opportunity. it is used for community organizing. >> if i can say something about the point you're trying to make. -- readingweeding some quotes from the mayor and sheriff saying they were taken completely by surprise. this should not have been a surprise at all. 50 and 60 years before 1967 that the city was not planning correctly for its citizens.

the zoning laws were out of whack. i remember reading a report that the, we have to plan for large influx of people that we know are coming to the city. but they did not. the master plan of 1947 had all these grandiose ideas of what and 20 years later in 1967, they had still not done anything. that housealk about conditions, poor health conditions, drain on the these were system, all predictable. also predictable but they refuse to do anything about it. michael: i was reading in your memoir about the harrowing tale of you driving into the riot.

i know we have kind of telegraph the answer here, but what caused the riot of 1967? start with the second one first. was caused the rebellion all of the rebellion in that right. ok, you gave me a whole lot to talk about, now. [laughter] >> we have time? what caused the rebellion was all of the above. it got to a point where people to said, we cannot take this anymore. anytime you have somebody's foot up your behind, and you moved to take their foot out, that is a rebellion, that is not a riot. a ride is kids who go down to

fort lauderdale on spring break and did not get stopped by the police. is when you have folks after a soccer game, football game in england or in germany, and the wrong team wins, that is a riot. that is uncontrolled, un-bible did just passion. people were looking for solutions. when all of the institutions that are supposed to resolve these things -- when you bring it to the table nonviolently, people were organized. all overnk user people the place doing nothing. a lot of organization was nonviolent. people were saying, what is going on. it was predictable and happening in front of their faces. number two, that cause the riot and that is why there was a rebellion, in your terms.

in my terms, a riot in what you said. in my particular case, i was a third-year law student in newark . this is my third summer. i was in charge of a group of law student sisters for the legal services project, but i was also working with a group called the newark community union project, which is part of the ses for the democratic society. i was also working with the student nonviolent coordinating committee. if y'all don't know those, look them up, young people especially. i was also in charge of this program. i was writing up court street m a car, and had a couple of guys with me and we were just looking around. we were out after curfew. yes, we were out beyond the

point that we were supposed to be out. book, wedescribe in my had just turned into court toeet, going up the hill what is martin luther king boulevard now. , then ithe sirens looked in the rearview mirror and i realized we were in deep, deep trouble. the angle and for enemy told us to get -- in front of me told me to get out the car, which we did. they searched the car and some no contraband, but there was something in there that told me they wanted to kill us. michael: were they pointing guns at you? >> yes. one had a shotgun and the others had pistols. the sergeant was telling them their law books. -- they are law students.

there are law students at them go, he said it three times. eyeshotgun man had his straight on me at that point. the other man was making all ordersf omnidirectional for us, hoping we would run. him, gotlly listen to back in the car and trove off into the night. for that not been sergeant, i don't the guy would have been here today. ofhael: mark, in the wake not only the newark rebellion, but rebellions of many cities in this country's and the terrible scene we saw in detroit that aen, linda johnson reported commission. the one thing we remember from that report is that famous quote, that our society is moving towards becoming to societies. one black and one white. sell my qk i know you

did not like that phrase, and did not like the -- i think you might have quoted a performance. explain why. what did you sick of that comment and was it precedent? ark: i do call it performance, but not at all in a dismissive way. one of the way commissions like the work, aside from content of the report, aside from the recommendations and their findings is that they , in theto show people midst of a crisis, the way to work through that crisis. intellectually, honestly, weighing evidence. i think those commissions model that. they perform that for the nation. an importantis

function. that line that comes in the summary of the report in the very beginning. the summary was written by a couple of staff members, and the vice chair of that commission. if you have ever seen the report, you have this 6, 7, 800 page chock-full of charts, numbers and footnotes and recommendations. some of which seem to contradict each other. it is a huge massive report. they were worried it seemed to scientific. isy wrote what becomes incredibly famous line in american rhetoric as a way to give some urgency to the rest of their report. michael: was it an accurate prediction do you think? mark: the prediction questions.

for sure. , we have scholars who have studied segregation rates nationwide in the decades after the 1960's. we know about the rise of residential segregation. especially concentrated in cities. , althoughredominately i think people talk about some of these positive things that come out of 1967, there is certainly a bifurcation of how people understand that. this is partly a language riot rebellion. becomes a way americans can blame black people for the decline of cities. cities declined because black people write it, rather than appreciating much longer history of urban development in decline.

before, some people use these as a real organizing tool to revisit some of these issues, to study them very honestly and passionately. some people on the liberal side, some more radical people. i think there is a way in which 1967 leads to a bifurcation in american cities, in understanding the course of american history for the rest of the 20th century. market mentioned some of the positives that resulted from the rebellion. one thing i look at when we were talking backstage about my memory of the newark riots. -- i remember and see it into my consciousness -- i lived in new york city at the time. a couple of years after that, i

remember feeling -- when ken gibson was elected mayor of newark, the first african-american mayor's in the northeast of the united states. even though i did not fully understand what was happening, it felt like a type of victory to me. it felt good. it did not make a difference. it was a victory. and it did make a difference. office whoeone in understood the majority population. who, certainly, when he first got into office was concerned about improving conditions in the city. all of those reports that have been stacking up collecting dust about what needed to be done. i am sure he read and launched on a campaign to improve things.

the school board, in 1967 it began to change complexion. as did other government agencies and nongovernment agencies. was having a black merit enough? no. -- black mayor an f? no. having a black figurehead andout the proper support enough to turn around the city? of course not. were fullest to ever think that could happen, in my opinion. it helps, but it certainly did issues that face the city in 1967, and some of those issues we are still working with now. it is a poor city. approacha multilevel

to resolve things. he put us on our way. michael: you agree with that? i agree with that, but let's go back before ken was alert it. the -- ken wasat elected. most of us do not want the rebellion. there was analysis of the cause the breakdown. we have to say, what good came out of the rebellion. first was identity. rebellion,newark black people do not call themselves black. we were negroes. nobody use that term before this . afterwards, there was a whole change in the complexion, no pun intended, of the city. the other thing was strategic

advantage. we look after the fire had died out, the smoke had cleared and phil hudson was my roommate and later became a chairman. we said, these people are scared of us. there was a ripple all across the city as people came out and understood that. what did we do? onut my law students to work looking at urban renewal. was thehe things that most important urban renewal project at the time was the giant medical school. school offdical quest they wanted. 150 acres. that was one of the reasons it was humiliating us to begin with. "landmark cases" -- michael: just explain why that was.

20,000 blackake people and puerto rican people, take away their houses. it was clear that was not the or 14- there were 13 projects in that time. it was the second most renewed projects in the country next to north virginia. the purpose was not only to clear the land for developers to make money, but it was also to get black when girardi. that was going to stop the people in power. we were able to make a long story short, we were able to, because of that and visible , we wereith the brick able to negotiate a settlement, which cut the medical school acres in half.

of urban renewal land to build houses. that housing still exists today. we built more than 900 houses, this was community groups. workforce, thehe construction workforce for the first time. people know about the philadelphia plan, but the newark land was the successful plan of that era in integrating the workforce. any black we all have people, we can't find black people, we said, you have to train them. we told the state, you have to pay for the training of the people for the community and we set up something called the newark construction trades training program. the trend over 600 black and puerto rican men. women were not considered at that time for construction. many of them went on and became part of the union. struggle,t subsequent

but that was the beginning of it. we got the medical school to take over the health care in the city. closing down what we used to the meme market and using that new high school, which they originally wanted for heart transplants and experimentations. stophird thing, and i will , coalition building. point we were a vast of unpredictable, but valeant organizations. after the rebellion, medical school site was the first time we all came together, all the .ay from the naacp one of the things i was able to do was to get the students up at ale, who got the school of

architecture to develop an alternate plan. which we showed in 17 acres what they wanted to do in 150 acres. that became the rallying cry for all of the organizations. there was nobody left. except for the black wolfsburg at city hall. -- left out except for at city hall -- the black people at city hall. want to add quickly as we talk about the outcomes of the rebellion, and building on what has already been said. one of the most important things was the way that those five days, and the great tragedy and death and violence of those five de-legitimated the existing power structure in new york. they showed what contempt they had for black residents of new york -- new york.

-- newark. they showed they cannot control the city, that they do not have the consent of residence. ton the governor decided pull the national guard and the state police out, it is because he was advised by some of the people that he is talking about. some of local community organizers and activists to do so. they argued the presence of these troops was inflaming the situation. they were the ones keeping the violence going. there is a way in which the power structure delegitimated the community forces and they really got to show what they could do. i'm glad you pointed that out. it is striking to me how so many reading, ige, like think the police chief comes out and it is the middle of the day,

they are hiding behind cars, national guardsman i there and the fellow walks out into the middle of the street. he walked out and people panicked. when they get to the bottom of it, the shop was fired by a nest -- the shot was fired by a national guardsmen. to what happened not that there was so much violence, but i covered that as a journalist. one of the narratives of the a black chiefnd said there was emails coming around from the gang same it want to assassinate police officers. all of these things have a way of tightening what is a tense situation. it is interesting that you can look back 50 years and see the

same dynamic. week of weeks ago, the the actual anniversary, there were a number of panel discussions, number of events. something that island -- i learned from lynda carter is that she talked about there were no guns in the community. that the weapon of choice was a knife. there were no guns. so all of these reports about snipers and people are hiding weaponry all throughout the community were false. certainly, the report came out and said, most of the ammunition that was found after the events came from troopers weaponry. this whole fear that there was this big warfare going on is false. we point out in our new

website called "rise up north.com" is you get a lot of this information. there were 268 reports of sniper .ire zero snipers were ever found. snipers.ce of any no gun shells other than the police gun shells. no footprints, no fingerprints, nothing was found. people were killed, one policeman, one fireman, the rest citizens all by the three police forces that were operating them. in the audience, but we should not be surprised. of violence in the african-american community is as old as the history of us in this country. mark: i will add quickly to give

sense of proportion here, while there is no evidence that sniper actually existed, we know because the state department of defense reported after the rebellion that their troops had fired at least 10,000 rounds in newark and plainfield, which is a nearby city that had violence. thattate police reported their troops fired at least 3000 rounds. the newark police department could not manage to keep records during these chaotic five days, so we do not know how many rounds were fired by the newark police department, but we know that the police officers went home, grabbed their personal weapons and brought them into the streets. we do know the newark police department borrowed several cartons of rifle shells from nearby union city in the midst of these five days. there is this incredible barrage of gunfire coming from the

official world. yet, no evidence of gunfire in the other direction. michael: we talked a bit about some of the political legacy of the rebellion. i would like to hear a personal story or two. how did that event shape your lives and your activism, or your trajectory? sort of in the immediate aftermath. did you change plans are gay clarity about what you wanted to or changeur -- plans clarity about what you wanted to do with your lives? did i set you up? this is the first time i became recognized as a leader. point, i had been a follower.

i had been a soldier in the army. i was told to do. somebody told me to take a message across the room. i did that. we fill in our designs and we designed the struggle to stop the medical school from taking everything they wanted, people is somethinge has on the ball and we have to recognize him. to change my life significantly because i have come on a leadership trajectory in the city of newark for the first time. it changed a whole lot of people's trajectory similarly. that know we had heard of come forward. some people they have heard of were on different roads. , i learned a lot from him because he was a theolteacher, but he was

cochairman of our negotiating team that got the things done that i set got done. but harry knew how to deal with the media. every day, before we went into a negotiating session, kerry would call me at 7:00 in the morning. ok, what are we going to talk about today? i am looking to the books and i know all of the facts and the figures in those things. i tell him, harry came to the , so he and said first got in the front page. i got nothing. [laughter] so i had to learn that you just come out be a technician for a harry wheeler and i started learning how to talk. i was 15 at the time and

living in the neighboring community. my mother, who had always done domestic work or factory work went through one of those johnston anti-poverty programs and received her ged. nondomestic non-sweatshop job was working for hamburgers. working for it and their accounting department. it was a steady paycheck for the first time. she worked for a few days, then the rebellion hit. was under quarantine, which meant that she could not get to work. and they never did call her back. she was never called back to work. but it allowed her the opportunity through that same

program to continue her education and she became a medical records technician. i cannot remember what it was. our life was forever changed. for me, it encourage that students from records north to take over the administration building and to make demands, and and allowed me to attend rutgers university because of the boldness of those students. that there is a college who probably had my freshman year out of 1000 students, about for african-american students during my freshman year took in about 70. that i believe was a direct result of what happened in newark and the 300 some odd other cities that were burning up in those days. i am curious to hear you describe how you view what

has happened in new york -- newark politically and economically in this half century. you don't have to go through every year. just sort of an overview. many people would argue you had newarkddle class from that crippled the city. some people would argue other things. i am curious about your take as a scholar. mark: it is important to recognize some of these phenomenons and incredibly profound forces that shaped american cities did not start in 1967. this was not just the past 50 years. these go back many years. at least of the 1930's in new york. but even before that. underlying some of the talk we

have already heard about some of the political successes, and what was going on in city hall, you also have to recognize the way in which, by and large, federal policy, state policy in new jersey turned its back on cities in significant ways after this. think we can map directly or track directly to 1967. one of the most famous examples is, the week after the newark rebellion -- and a few days before detroit you rubbed it, the house of representatives here in d.c. is considering a bill that overrides -- provides $40 million of money for eradication programs. they voted down. not only did they vote it down, but southern democrats and republicans against the legislation are incredibly sarcastic and dismissive.

the day before, they had passed an anti-riot legislation. they made it a federal crime to cross state lines to provoke riots, which was clearly aimed at their perception of black radicals. wereidea that rebellions caused by nationwide conspiracies of black radicals. you see in the days immediately following the rebellion, you start to see the federal rejecting in congress pieces of legislation that some people thought would get as a root cause of the rebellion in favor of in orientation for the rebellions. out.nk that plays fast-forward to 50 years. the war on poverty, the war on crime or the industrial complex, and a much

cities disinvestment in on the part of governments. this happened in trenton to in the months and years after in newark. >> a person who was called at that time, leroy jones, he was someone everybody knew around the country, and internationally too. beatenthe in a very -- up very badly and the bill rebellion -- in the rebellion. there was ater black power conference that had been previously scheduled to come to newark. all the heads of the civil black power organizations

came to newark. his stareroy jones, .egan to rise he was taken a look at his politics, as well as his artistry. shortly thereafter, he called the meeting of some of us who had been active in the community . the organization was called the united brother. from the united brother's it morphed into unified newark, which was the main platform for the election of the first black mayor. would can have been elected without the rebellion? 96 toat time, not in seven, maybe in 1974. the rebellion speeded up the entire electoral political process and created new leadership locally, which had

been there all the time. michael: we want to take a few questions from you. we have two microphone set up behind this first row of seats. if you could go there to ask questions, it would probably be test. it is just right behind there. -- probably be best. it is just right behind there. if you could go to the microphone, it would be better. >> good afternoon. can you all hear me? much for ao wonderful panel and a wonderful discussion. from timerica magazine. i wanted to bring up two points.

one is, when you look at the sniper issue and compare what happened in 1967, and compare , it happened during katrina was that same narrative of there was a sniper when there was no cyber. -- sniper. some of the repeated things that go on when the media gets involved, and you have a lot of these false narratives that come about. i wanted to focus on a carmen -- comment that mark made earlier. it is very interesting because, if you will remember, a couple of months, at least three months there that riot -- rebellion, i'm sorry. before the breakout of the rebellion. kinge the rebellion, dr.

made a speech at stanford university. dr.ally, the reports echoed king when dr. king talked about the two americas. and well-off,ite and one that is black and underprivileged. that report,ook at it is really interesting how that language is so similar. i do not want to call it plagiarism, but i will say it is distressingly similar to what dr. king said. he also said that, this could happen in any one of our cities. we are under this powder cake -- keg. that had happen in new york, and happen in detroit, a could at happen in any urban city usa. here we are 50 years later, i understand we want to look at

the positives that came out of , but at theebellion same token, we find ourselves in the same predicament. having had a black president. the question is, with all of the everything that we have done, what is the next step? know, am seeing is, you us doing pretty much the same thing for the last 50 or so years. ?hat is the methodology how do we get from this place where we are in constant, , uh, not rebellion, in constant activism? >> i think she is right, we have

to take another step forward. between a difference the climate then and the claimant now. then and theimate climate now. there were more organizations that were trying to get power then. nowadays we have more organizations as opposed to mobilization. mobilization is when you get on facebook and say come down to city hall. organization is when you go down once, twice, three times, and each time the crowd gets bigger. those types of organizations, weortunately, kind of died put all of our eggs into ,lecting the first black mayor or the first city council people. people said, well, we finally

got our piece of the pie. one of the things i point out is in the streets represented by city hall, must be accompanied by the power in the streets, which is the people. if we do not have both working together, it will not work. what we elected poweribson, the economic was taken out of the city and moved to the suburbs. it is still there. taken asand as well our current mayor is, mayor baraka who is here with us, he is at a handicap. to help themve take some of that power back. that is what we have to do. power in the streets. once the streets catches up to

the suites, we will be much better. [applause] michael: what do you say to those who would argue and say that his analysis is a little pessimistic. that we had all kinds of progress. that we have a black middle class that is larger than it was 50 euros ago. why is that not enough? i am finding it hard to be anything but pessimistic, considering what is happening a few blocks away. [applause] michael: that is a whole mother panel. >> as an -- a hold another panel. before,mentioned to you is the attitude of the common people. in many ways, even though we have a colonialist sort of

sensibility. we were not colonized like some of the countries where, but we have had that colonization as a kind of thinking. we have the paternal wealthy here who are supposed to spread the little pennies and take care of the rest of us. ways, poor people have internalized -- i don't want this to sound the wrong way of.eing taken care without understanding, people do not give you something for nothing. if you want power, you have to take it. you have to study, you have to read, you have to work hard and try to figure out how you can take your piece of power and spread that power among your peers.

think is of what we are lacking. also, some of us were hired into nice jobs. i mentioned my mother's transitions. we were told to think that things were better at everything will be ok. hopefully we have had a wake-up call and we know that the struggle continues. there is still not equity, there .s not equal opportunity again, you have to take what you want. anymore questions? good afternoon, my name is john johnson peters, saint peters university. >> good to see you. >> in that clip that played before you all came out, there

was the comment made about whites in new work in the 1960's as being oppressed. it was a willingness to create a coalition with all people in newark. i'm guessing that was most likely the north ward and parts of south ward of newark that were not getting on board. i was wondering if you could speak to what were reasons why poor whites in newark had a hard time recognizing the lay of the land? why there interest were more aligned with african-americans, latinos that were increasingly moving to newark and how it might speak to our current political moment. michael: we have a couple of moments. mark: we were talking before this event about the extent to which some of the politics today, in some white voting behavior driven by affect, or a sense of identity. -- not you get by not

materially are economically, but emotionally, or spiritually from identifying with a particularly -- particular brand of politics or politicians. the reason why some of these coalitions that did not happen in newark was simply race. the war on poverty, bayside -- tried to set up area boards throughout the city. were neighborhood boards rejected by the two predominately white neighborhoods at the time. later, in the 1970's, student figures in plain that the war on poverty never included white people. the fact is, it was rejected because they were afraid of what that would mean for their neighborhood if it was identified as a poverty area. >> quickly. did, or what we do is -- theselves up

-- we willmodel always have people on the very on thatf we continue load. what we have never done is try to sit down and figure out how we can construct a world, and how we can construct a society that is working fully balanced. that is more inclusive of everyone. biggest been our mistake. some of us got better jobs, assumed a little bit of power, but we never try to change the paradigm. michael: real quick, then we have to wrap it up. trump class is more often than not. bernie sanders thinks class can solve all of the problems. race in america has a separate and distinct right.

that, the oneize who understands that is donald trump, because he plays the race card and he turn people against their own economic interests using the race card. white people have not learned, we have not learned, bernie sanders certainly did not learn because he almost one -- won. michael: i was hoping to end on a more upbeat note. [laughter] michael: i just want to thank the panel. [applause] >> we have a facebook question from peter who says are there any historical resources of people who died in detroit? you could be featured during

our next live program. join the conversation on facebook at facebook.com/c-span history, and on twitter at c-span history. >> this week onhistory, and on t c-span history. c-span. monday at 8:00 p.m. eastern, nasa's coverage of the first total solar eclipse visible across the united states in the first 100 years. they come into alignment at a cosmic moment that we are all being a part of. tuesday at 10:00 p.m., live coverage of president trump's rally in phoenix. wednesday at 8:00 p.m., former presidents on leadership. former president clinton: iowa's that it could have a better life. i got lucky. all these people that tell you they were born in a log cabin is full of bull. >> thursday at 8:00 p.m., with

the budget for congress, we will look at pending proposals for the government. on friday, an interview with sonny perdue. >> my political history was, i ind people, when i was born 1946 in georgia, they stamped democrat on your birth certificate. i made a political decision, i call it truth in advertising in 1998 to change parties and became a republican. p.m. by ad a 8:30 conversation with jeff moss. >> there were no jobs in information security for any of us. people doing security were in the military. this is really a hobby. internet grew, and there were jobs, and there was money at risk, all of the sudden, hackers got jobs doing security. >> watch on

>> next on the presidency, black theica experts discuss successes and disappointments of harry truman's policies in the latin american region. the crewmen little white house and -- truman little white house hosted this event, part of the 15th annual symposium, which this year is titled "harry truman's legacy toward that end -- toward latin and south america." >> i'm happy to be here. ist we have decided to do each introduced ourselves. i will take a little bit about myself. my name is stephen rabe