war, drew makowski talks about how confederate general robert e lee maneuvered his army after the battle of getters for -- gettysburg and the pursuit. he also describes the reorganization of the armies after they retreated across the potomac river. this half-hour talk with hosted by the gettysburg heritage center. cash was hosted by the gettysburg -- was hosted by the gettysburg heritage center. >> our next presentation is by joe mcknight ski. he is a licensed battlefield guide here at gettysburg national military park. joe is the past president of the association of licensed battlefield guides and the gettysburg civil war roundtable. in addition, he is on the faculty of the prestigious lincoln leadership institute.

he has three books to his credit including after gettysburg, lee retreats and another. he lives with his wife, chris. >> thank you. [applause] >> my wife kris is here in the audience tonight. welcome, everybody to the book talk about my latest book called after gettysburg. the great radio commentator always talked about the rest of the story, so this is kind of the rest of the story. a lot of people come here to learn about the three-day battle of gettysburg. we talked about that battle, but this book attempts to answer the question what happens after the three days are over? the story is pretty well known. the story after is not as well-known. you might remember the battle

was a three-day battle on july 1, 2, and 3 just outside this building. 160,000 soldiers for three hot days, then there would 151,000 or missing.unded, it was a bloodbath. it was a turning point in the civil war, and this is where ibrahim lincoln gave the most important speech in his -- abraham lincoln gave the most important speech in his career. battle?did lee lose the experts have been trying to answer that question. why did lee lose the battle? we will talk about that in the book talk tonight. the other unanswered question is , why didn't george meade defeat robert e. lee after the victory at gettysburg? those are the tow unanswered

unanswered- two questions that remain. historians are sorting out the answers. this book attempts to answer some of those questions. when lee retreated, after his meade in 1863, and when pursued. we will talk about both aspects. there were two commanders in the army, one 56-year-old robert e lee, military officer, once considered so prominent abraham lincoln offered him command of the union army. he turned it down, preferring to raise his sword for family and home in virginia. he made the confederate army with stonewall jackson and long street and brought many victories. but he would face his greatest defeat. shelby foot once said gettysburg

is the price the south paid to have robert ely. -- e. lee. his army lost a third of their soldiers, 28,000 casualties. military general robert ely would lose the -- e lee would lose the battle. most people have forgotten this name out of gettysburg, but there was george meade, native of pennsylvania, known as the goggle eyed snapping turtle. he had a bad temper. george meade was 47 years old at the time of the battle and given command three days before the battle of gettysburg. he would write no man had greater responsibilities resting on his shoulders then general george were in need -- warren meade. so these were the two men that

would face each other on the battle of gettysburg. leading the army of the potomac, some 93,000 soldiers. robert e. lee wearing the uniform of gray leading the army of northern virginia. robert e. lee, by the way, was known as the king of spades. what an interesting nickname. he would win that nickname earlier in the war when his men with dig in in the balance of west virginia early in the war. sometimes he was called "old granny," because he was man manners, almost like your grandmother who made sure you behaved himself. he made sure his soldiers behave themselves. when the confederate army came to get his perky told them not to disturb the civilian population. if they were going to take food, then pay for it. although it was largely with. worthless confederate money. these are the two commanders that would face each other in gettysburg in a 3-day b

attle. now, we can talk more about the battle. what we can say is for three hot gettysburg it was undeniable the union army had won the first battle in the east. the union army that had confronted robert e. lee too many battles had lost decisively at fredericksburg, virginia, in 1862. they lost in chancellorsville in where general stonewall jackson was killed. after two years of war in virginia, robert e. lee was short of supplies, food and heipment and clothing and began an invasion of pennsylvania in june of 1863 to end the war. lee saw it has his last chance for victory. although lee had been beating the war into

pennsylvania, defeat the union army on northern soil. moving away from the defenses of washington and crush it in pennsylvania. and lee knew there was a growing peace movement. the copper head movement. if he could defeat the army of pennsylvania, the people would rise up and demand that it were negotiating with geoff davis and hope the southern states will be able to break away and have their own countries. for the hottest day of july, 1863 lee's army would battle george meade's army. when it was over, was undeniable the union army had finally beaten robert e. lee then robert e. lee will leave the battle of gettysburg. throughout the battle, he was largely fighting a hands-off battle. he often said to his soldiers that his army, his job was to bring his army prepared in position to win. after that, the outcome was up to god and subordinate

commanders. you see, robert e. lee believed his job as the commander was to bring his army to the battlefield prepared and position to win. then after that the outcome is up to god and subordinate commanders. people like james long street, a. p. hill, and richard s. hewell. they would carry out lee 's instructions. his subordinate commanders would lose this battle. ll would richard hewee later say there were a lot of mistakes made at gettysburg and i made most of them. now, robert e. lee after the battle of gettysburg, having lost so many soldiers, thousands of wounded left behind, will changes leadership style and become active as a leader, much more hands-on. in fact, when the battle is over he will immediately convene a council of war with his

commanders and decide with their strategy is to save their army after the defeat at gettysburg. this then is the subject of this book. how does robert e. lee save his army after the defeat of gettysburg, and what does george meade do when he perseus robert e. lee's defeated army as they leave the gettysburg battlefields? george meade and robert e. lee. troois a map showing the p dispositions after the battle of gettysburg. it ended on july 3, 1863. dea bodies everywhere. nearly 10,000 dead in round numbers. both armies were absolutely exhausted. and there were just so many wounded soldiers left behind. every civilian in town did what they could to help the wounded

and would later do with they could to help the dead and bury the dead. now, as you look at this illustration, it shows the movements of the army following the battle of gettysburg. the red line represents the confederate army's movements and the blue line the union. on july 3, 1863, robert e. lee immediately begins moving his army, before the evening is out he's already making plans to direct his soldiers to get out of gettysburg as quickly as they and save their army and perhaps do battle with the army of the potomac once again. draw them into a better and more defensible position as he begins a retrograde movement into virginia. now, robert e. lee will take his army and divide it essentially into two parts. the wagon train of the wounded, just the wounded, stretches for

some 17 miles. they'll we organize -- he'll reorganize his army and have the armies of the wounded move west of gettysburg through the cashtown pass, witches now present-day route 30. the wakens will move west an-- the wagon will move west and then move to the hagerstown in the potomac river. one wagon train will begin moving out shortly after the battle. certainly by july 4, the wagons are on the move. the wagon train of just the wounded, the bleeding and those wagons, and you can imagine the agony of the wounded soldiers road bucked along rough through the mountain passess west of gettysburg. now, the other part of his army will be sent south to a retreat back to hagerstown through the fastest route possible, and that'll be through the monterey

pass, which is just south of gettysburg near fairfield, pennsylvania, about 8 miles from here. the two wagon trains will move out after the defeat at gettysburg. one goes west and one south. both way and trains will move. it's impossible to move his army, the wagons and the wounded and all the supplies he captured in pennsylvania on wondeone dirt road. he devises army -- to move south as quickly as possible. the question is when robert e. lee left gettysburg and he is on the move by july 3 and 4, by the time he leaves gettysburg, what is general meade doing? that's one of the big unanswered questions of the battle. meade has suffered 22,000 casualties. his men are exhausted and have not been fed for days. one of the things general meade will do is take care of his wounded. nearly every building and

burning gettysburg becomes a hospital. the other thing general meade will do is feed his army. they have not ate for several days, they are literally starting. they came to pennsylvania starving, they are even more hungry. he'll take care of the wounded and feed the soldiers and bury the dead. general meade gets a jump on robert e. lee when he wagon trains begin moving through -- as the two wagon trains had west and south. now, along with the wagons of the wounded, he has got, robert e. lee has a lot of supplies he's forged in pennsylvania. his soldiers have been in the north since the middle of june, 1863, and they have gone to all the nearby farms. they have captured thousands of pigs. they are going to move those hogs south into virginia. they've captured thousands of head of cattle.

they are going to literally have a colorado cattle drive into the south sa lee moves the supplies he has captured to mountain passes. he has got horses, he has got cattle and he will have these huge herds of animals along with the wagon trains of food, supplies and equipment issues and clothing that is moving south. his objectives and coming to gettysburg was to get supplies. and he's going to leave gettysburg with all of the supplies they fit captured during -- they have captured during the invasion of pennsylvania which was two weeks old. now, he not only fights a three-day battle but prior to that he has captured thousands and thousands of supplies. they estimate that just the, the line of wagons and soldiers in all of those supplies stretches for another 40 miles. so, he's got literally mile after mile after mile. of course, he is going over rough roads. many of them rodads are dirt

roads. to make matters worse as the two weygand trains begin moving west and south, with all of these supplies, with wounded soldiers and the ones that are still alive, it starts to rain. it not only starts to rain, it starts a torrential rain. experts tell us that it range for almost three inches of rain over the course of several days. these dirt roads in the mountains quickly turned to mud, and there will be a horrific experience trying to get thousands of soldiers, all these animals, all the way through these non-passes. meanwhile, general meade begins pursuit. this is an illustration of the army as general lee's begins retreating through the rain, beginning on july 4, 1863, and in the days following.

it will be a ten-day journey from gettysburg to the potomac river before he crosses what will ultimately be a swollen potomac river. at the potomac river, robert e. lee believes he will cross the river no matter what the conditions, because when he came to pennsylvania, when his army invaded north, they had built pontoon bridges over the river but unknown to robert e. lee, the union army will destroy those bridges. so, as he moves through mountain passes, he will soon find out that his way across the potomac into virginia is impeded by the swollen potomac river and, in the absence of any way to get across the river, short of fording the river and the river is so high the soldiers are not able to wade through the raging rivers of the potomag waters. 's army begins moving south and west, their object is to get to hagerstown, get to the potomac river and over the potomac river, several different

cross over into virginia with the believe they will find safety or at least the safety their home state will least they will have the support of the civilian population. they will be out of "yankee" territory. another picture. this is by edwin forbes. there were no photographers available. during the battle. or during the retreat. but there were newspapers that were available to this population. one was "harpers weekly." the other one was "lesley's illustrated newspaper." and people all over the country would read the weekly papers to get the war news. they would look not only to read about the war, because what they were typically reading was the lists of the casualties, a long list of who died in what battle, but they would look for these

illustrations. this is an illustration done by " lesley'ss, for illustrated magazine." it's really the best account, the best visual account we half of what happened during the battle and went lee's army retreated. - when lee's army retreated. you can see the long lines of soldiers, look to the left, you can see the wagon trains that were moving out. what'sin those wagons? wounded men in agony, perhaps the wagons are piled up with takener supplies lee's from pennsylvania. there is molasses and pennsylvania whiskey and oats and corn and wheat. going to put barrel loads in them -- and try to get them out of there, if you come bush is nothing else he was to bring enough supplies home to continue to feed his army. the recently came north in the

first place was because virginia did not have supplies. he wants to taken of supplies back home to feed his army, to keep the war going. well, he may have lost this battle, he is not ready to give up yet. see, robert e. lee is looking for a political solution to the war. he knows that this is his last, last chance for victory. the union army, lincoln would be forced to negotiate. so, lee wants to move south and going.e war if he cannot win a political victory here, then perhaps if he keeps fighting he will continue to hope for political victory later, particularly since the 1864 elections are only a year away and if lincoln can be defeated and lee can keep the war, going then perhaps he will get the ultimate victory he want. but he's got to get the supplies home and feed his army. so, awful conditions as the soldiers in agony walk down what

is now the fairfield road, through the cashtown pass, threw the distant moans. untains. happily, robert e. lee has undertaken efforts to make sure those mountain passes are secure. he's already made sure when his army retreats through the mountains into hagerstown and the potomac that there is a way south . the union army will try to do what they can to block lee's army from going south and going through the mountains. but, during the battle, robert e. lee will make sure that mountain passes are secure so that his wagon trains and his soldiers can retreat across the potomac. wagons begin moving up over the mountains, general meade now, now that he's varied his dad and said his soldiers, finally begins pursuing robert e. lee vigorously. ledl send the sixth corps,

by general john sedgwick to assess the condition of the confederates, where are they? and little by little, george meade will come up with a plan to pursue robert e. lee's. army lee already has a head start on him. and troopsgon trains begin moving over the monterey pass, you can see it here on this map. the monterey pass is here. as wagon trains begin moving to the monterey pass, union cavalry will pursue the confederates to the mountains. -- through the mountains. 1863, there will be a huge battle just south of gettysburg, just north of the mason-dixon line at monterey pass, which is a way through the mountains south of fairfield. robert e. lee has done what he could prior to the passage of his troops to secure the mountain passes, the wagon

trains begin moving south but union calvary will attack those wagon trains, the evening of july 4 in what is described as the second biggest battle ever fought in pennsylvania, the battle of monterey pass. involving nearly 20,000 soldiers in mountain passes. attack in theight driving rain storm with lightning flashing. the wagons of the wounded and the animals are all going through mountain passes when union calvary attacks the wagon trains to disrupt lee's movement to the south. attacking those weygand trades includes dorms on strong cu -- george armstrong custer. in a rare night attack, there is terrible fighting on monterey pass. thousands of prisoners are taken, but the wagon train continues moving south. even though the y'll lose hundred of supply wagons.

through maryland and ultimately to the potomac river. here is another illustration by edwin forbes showing a swollen potomac river. see if we can make out what is in this illustration. you can see at the bottom of this painting, the reflection of the lights on the wagon trains. again, a nice illustration by edwin forbes. you can see the soldiers behind the wagon trains sa they begin hey begin to form up at the basin of one in sport, maryland -- williamsport, maryland, waiting for the river to subside low enough so they are able to cross the river. findwill be horrified to out that the bridges they expected to use across the river are not available to them. so, they'll immediately set the test of have engineer star building pontoon bridges across the potomac river. i've never really noticed this before but it looks like there are some animals in the water.

over there on the left. what do you think that is? i'm going to guess those are cows floating down the rivber. er. the whole confederate army will congregate along the potomac river waiting for the water to go down and waiting for the pontoon bridges to approach, to be rebuilt. meanwhile, union calvary will, gusoff andy, will get us for to emmitsburg down to frederick, maryland, and then turned to the west. there'll be a series of borough,s in boones maryland, as union calvary harasses lee's retreating army as it attempts to cross the potomac river at williamsport, at flowing waters, a little further south and elsewhere. union army is finally encountering the confederates.

the confederates are boxed up at the potomac river waiting for the waters to subside. general george meade on the ground realizes that he has got robert e. lee trapped, as it were. he is trapped with his back up against the potomac river. defensive building a fortifications to protect his army at williamsport. and, despite the harassing efforts of union calvary, they're never able to break through confederate defenses. george meade realizes he needs to go on the offensive, but fortunately or unfortunately, he holds the council of war on july 13, 1863, and his generals will his, july 12 and july 13, generals will come to the conclusion that perhaps they need to scout lee's position before the attack. and when they finally make the effort to attack lee's army backed up against the potomac river, the bridges are rebuilt, lee escapes back into virginia,

and the gettysburg campaign ends. and all of this is described in the book after gettysburg. lee retreats and meade pursues. but that is not where this book stops. although, that is where most scholarship stops. the three dayudes battle of gettysburg, to live 1, july 1, 2, 3, and the retreat -- and commentating in -- on july 14. but what happens next? when you read the textbooks you would come to the conclusion that after lee retreats back to virginia nothing happens. that's the end of the story until general grant arise in march of 1864, and begins the overland campaign. spotsylvania,, that is six or nine months down the road.

what happens in the intervening time from the time lee retreats across the potomac in the middle ntil grant takes control -- you have almost nine months. what is happening to these two immense armies? well, it is a fascinating story i try to describe in the book. one this that happens is the armies he organize. some our cores are so decimated they will go out of existence. the other thing that will happen is the high command, abraham lincoln and henry halleck, the chief of staff, will cannibalize the army. so, will robert e. lee's army. so, some elements of the union army that fought it gettysburg will be sent west to fight at the battle of chickamauga in september of 1863. so, george meade is going to, robert e. lee is going to lose part of his army and send it to

chickamauga in september. so, robert e. lee's going to send a lot of james long streets guys to georgia in september. george meade is going to lose some of his army, the 11th and 12th corps sent to check a new go later in the fall of 1863. so, you have these two armies, but what's happening is after the battle of gettysburg, after lee retreats, the intention. worried about the mississippi river, tennessee and georgia. thehe'll, and so is confederate high command. and they all shift their attention from the east to the west. the confederates will send james long street to the west to fight in chickamauga in georgia. and georgezton bragg meade will send part of his army to join u.s. grant at chattanooga. so, you now have these much

smaller military organizations in september of 1863. october, november and december. that is not to say that these armies are inactive. s wants tolee' continue retreating south to the rappahannock. gettingther south, closer to the defenses of richmond an, virginia. george meade's army will continue to pursue robert e. lee 's army into virginia and there will be a series of little known battles in virginia as lee retreats and meade pursues. some of the battles include the battle of manassas. the bristow campaign, the battles of auburn, the battles of bristol station, the battle of rappahannock station. there is a long series of battles that takes place saas

meade pursues a retreating confederate army, while lee continues moving south to the rappahannock river to defend richmond. and all of this is taking place in these fall and early winter of 1863. now, after a series of disasters on both sides at bristow station and mine run, finally both armies go to their winter camp. so, robert e. lee will have missed his opportunity to win the war at gettysburg. he will have missed his opportunity to to destroy the union army, as he begins his retrograde movement back into virginie. a. but george meade will also miss the opportunity of a lifetime, not only to finish the job after gettysburg, but to rigorously pursue robert e. lee across the potomac river all the way to the rappahannock. so, if you don't know the difference between fairfield and

bristow station and rappahannock station, this is clearly the book you should read. a long series of battles fought in the summer and fall of 1863. the story has not been told. but abraham lincoln, of course, would sum it up in a way that people remember. in a letter he wrote but never 1863, president abraham lincoln wrote a letter to george meade. "myhat letter hea said, dear general, i do not believe you appreciate the magnitude of the misfortunes involved in lee 's. escape he was within your easy grasp. and to have closed upon him would in connection with our other late successes have ended the war. the war will be

prolonged indefinitely. it will certainly be prolonged through 1863, but when u.s. grant comes east, he will take command of all armies in the field and travel with meade's army. meade will lose his reputation even though he won the battle of gettysburg. so, the stories of the rest of the battles that take place after gettysburg is told in this book, lee retreats and meade pursues. so, let's open it up for a few questions. any questions or comments? ok. well, thank you very, very much. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2017] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> we have a facebook question from peter. historical resources on the people who died in detroit? >> the detroit free press did a piece -- >> you can be featured during

our next live program to join the conversation on facebook. and on twitter @c-span history. we takeay night on q&a, a look at anthony clarke's book "the last campaign, how presidents rewrite history and enshrine their legacies." >> every single, i have received has been how angry people are to learn what happened or how flabbergasted they are to learn what has happening. i haven't received any kind of mild, i read and it was ok. i think they're angry about the fact we cap presidential lobbies that are created to house records, and especially for the most recent ones, the reckons s will not be open for 100 years. instead we are paying for celebration and legacy building. >> sunday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span's q&a. >> sunday night on afterwards,

onk radio host mark levin the expansion of the federal government and what the country must do to move back to what the founders intended. in his book " rediscovering americanism." he's interviewed by jim demint. >> have we reached the point where we can't get back? are we now overwhelmed in the culture, in politics, in the media? ,ith this progressivism notion centralized government, phony egalitarianism. of the smothering of individualism. has it become so entrenched in our institutions that there is no one to rip it out? i say this. we have to do everything we can, explain it, debated, to to our federal citizens what is taking place -- our fellow citizens what is taking place but we have no choice. >> watch sunday night at 9:00

eastern on c-span's book tv. on virginia commonwealth university professor emilie raymond teaches a class on the 1973 film "soylent green," and how it reflected the contemporary environmental movement and fears about overpopulation. her class is about an hour in 20 minutes. prof. raymond: good evening. in this course, history and film in the 1970's, we are talking about the developer of a new hollywood, and we are talking about that in the context of of american political culture within the broader trends of what's going on in american society. schulman'sbruce 70', "the