policymakers including our special guests here tonight developed these programs into experiments in the 19d 80s and 1990s. given this debate has been going on more than 60 years why did 1,900 people sign the facebook page to protest. the controversy surrounding this forum in society today. this country is more divided now than it has been in many decades. many people on all sides feel

fareful and de fearful and deeply threatened. it made many people stop listening to each other. in this time of division what we need most is to listen and understand one another instead of circling the wagons into our own echo chambers. the kennedy school is all about understanding differences and building bridges. creating an inclusive space is difficult because many people from all sides would rather shut each other down rather than hear what one another are saying. i'm sure many people followed the controversy over colin kaepernick and the others who have been kneeling during the playing of the national anthem. what are they saying? from the farms of virginia to the halls of philadelphia to the fields at gettysburg the idea that we are all created equal is the deepest of american

aspirations. these remind our fellow citizens m how we are falling short because yet many view their very speech as un-american. many people on the left side of the political spectrum are also feeling fear and threats that fr prevents them. we have seen them shut down conservative speakers over the past year. shutting people down is contrary to the values of this space in the harvard kennedy psychologic school. even if we do not agree especially if we do not agree it is important to hear and allow others in attendance to listen and speak as well. the practice of our forum and ask these principals by giving speaker an opportunity to articulate their views and

insisting they take questions from you, the audience. people will have an opportunity to ask questions in the last portion of tonight's event. i will ask the harvard university police to escort from the forum anyone who prevents others from speaking by disrupting this event. our practice of dialogue is critical. when you prevent others from speak or hearing disagreeable views or when you refuse to be challenged it means you have so sure that you're right and so sure they are wrong that you have nothing to learn from them, but on an issue like school choice how can anyone be so sure of themselves? when we look back years from now we might see school choice as, the south side of chicago or detroit michigan.

it enables them to escape failing schools and seize the opportunity for a better life. school choice might enable educators to the widest array of opportunities for students. on the other hand we may come to see that school choice became a way to exploit uninformed parents that sent children to private schools while enriching the operators of those schools. still worse, we may come to see a misguided effort to abandon far system of common schools in which americans from all backgrounds learn how to be citizens over successful republic together. i do not presume to know how the future will judge us on this question or so many others. i do think that looking at the evidence there help us all reach a better future. evidence about what kinds of public and pry strike that school arrangements were.

he is senior editor. he is a member of the american academy of arts and sciences. for mar than 30 years in our home state of michigan and nationwide. in an interview she recounted how she first got engaged with

education issues in a visit to potters house. she saw a school that managed to create a rich educational learning environments. she started helping individual students and supporting the school itself and then she pursued this to choice in the public policy domain. then as now she seeks to transform to provide such choic

choices her senate confirmation vote to become education secretary could not have been closer. it was split 50/50 with pence breaking the tie. so we have a lot to talk about and controversial issues. i'll be returning later to moderate the question and answer period. for now please welcome paul peterson and elizabeth devoss. [ applause ] >> thank you for the opportunity to be here at the kennedy school. truly one of the gems of post secondary education. peterson, i look forward to our conversation but i want to to the advancement of school choice

you have made over the years. through broet the program on education policy and govern nance and education next few scholars have left such indelible fingerprints on this critical conversation. thank you for continuing to facilitate that dialogue. a special thanks to fauste. as she and harvard prepare for their next steps i wish her nothing but the best. here in cambridge there are many great people working on in great ideas. and that's been the case for a very long time. it helped lead at all levels around the globe. it the privilege to be here.

i don't really want to talk about my age but john f. kennedy is the first president i can remember, though i don't remember all that much. president kennedy had it right and despite the fact that we have all too often disregarded his observations he is still right today. thinking experts in washington. there is perhaps no better example than our current education system. many inside and outside of government insist a government system is best equipped to

educate children. in that fantasy scenario the state replaces the family. the cool house becomes a home. not too long ago the american federation for teachers tweeted at me. the union wrote bet si devoss says should invest in individual students. no. we should invest in great public schools for all kids. education is an investment in individual students. that's why funding and foe could should follow the student, not the other way around. i came into often with a core belief. it is the right and

responsibility of parents to choose the learning environment that best meets their child's unique individual needs. i'm more convinced of that today. new in the film waiting for super man. parents who want to free their child from a failing school are some times allowed by the system to enter a lottery for only a few seats in a different school. thousands of children vie for limited openings. the students are represented as plast plastic balls rolling around in an age as if children were part

of a bingo game. i say they visit one of these lotteries. watch the faces of these parents, many of who are struggling to get by every day. watch their faces hidden in their hands or covered in tears because they didn't win a new future for their son or daughter. this scene is heart wrenching and it's downright disgraceful. childrens futures aren't to be gambled. there are too many kids who are trapped in a school that doesn't meet their needs. there are too many parent wlos are denied the fundamental right to decide the best way to educate their child. it is what makes me so passi

passionate. about changing this once and for all. they say it means private schools or religious schools. it means for profit schools. they say it means taking money from public schools. well, i have got to give it to them. they have done a mighty fine job of setting that seen for that house of horrors in the press. they did so by trying to paint a line. if you support giving parents any option, any say, you must therefore be opposed to public schools, public school teachers and public school students, yet nothing could be further from the truth. think about food, yes, food. probably a good time to think

about it since it's just about dinner time. like education we all need food to grow and thrive. we don't all want or need the exact same thing at the exact same time. what tastes good to me may not taste good to you. what's working for me right now might not work a few years from now. accordingly we choose how to best get the food that meets our unique needs. think about how you eat. you can visit a grocery store or convenience store or farmers market to buy food and cook at home or you can visit a restaura restaurant, maybe a sit down place, maybe a fast food joint, maybe a hybrid that combines the best of both. there aren't many restaurants but you know what? food trucks started lining the streets to provide options. some are better than others and some are even local restaurants

that added food truck to better meet their customers needs. now, if you visit one of those food trucks instead of a restaurant, do you hate restaurants or are you trying to put grocery stores out of business? no. you are simply making the right choice for you based on your individual needs at the time. just as in how you eat education is not a choice. being for equal access and opportunity, being for choice is not being against anything. i'm not for or against one brand or one breed of school choice. i'm not for any type of school over another. the definitions we have dra t traditionally worked from become tools that divide us.

and doesn't every school aim to serve a public good? a school that prepares students to lead successful live is a benefit to all of us. the definition of public education should be to educate the public. that's why we should fight less about the word that comiincomin comes before school. i suspect all of you here at harvard will take your education and contribute to the public good. when you chose to attend harvard did anyone suggest you were against public universities in no. you and your families sat down and fig yuured out which would the best fit for you. you compared options and made an informed decision.

no one thinks choice in higher education is wrong. why is it wrong in elementary, middle or high school? instead of dividing the public when it kocomes to kegs, the fos should be on the ends, not on the means. we should be for students, all students. that's why i'm for parents having access to the learning environment that's the right fit fur their students. i believe in students and trust parents. what does the future look like? i'm not a preacher of washington so i'm not afraid to say this, we do not know what the future of school choice looks like. that's not only something with which i'm okay, it's something i celebrate and embrace. the future of choice should be whatever parents want for their children. the future of choice relies upon

parents being empowered to make choices for their children. what this looks like for one family in wyoming will be different from what an indiana family decides. in fact what choice look like for one child may be different for what it looks like for his or her own siblings. families are dynamic and children are unique. each should be free to pursue different avenues that lead each child to his or her fullest future. that's why i wholeheartedly believe the future of choice does not believe with a federal mandate from washington. it might sound counter intuitive to some but after eight months in washington and three decades working in states i know all we'll end up with is a surgeover spending and a bloat of

bureaucracy to go along with it. washington does have an important supporting role to play in the future of choice. we can amplify the choices of those who only want better for their kids. it's already underway today. i went to visit the teachers, parents and students who are shaping their own futures. we called it the rethink school tour because i wanted to highlight and learn from innovative educators who are breaking free. what i saw was encouraging.

charter public schools and private schools, home schools, even a high school at a zoo, they were all different, all with unique approaches. what they all had in common was just that, a deliberate focus on serving their students. students and parents chose them. what worked in those schools for those students might not work everywhere. it might not work for you, but it worked for them, and that is the future of school choice. there was another common characteristic these schools shared. they embraced doing right by their students without anyone gifg them a permission slip to do so or more importantly without anyone in washington telling them no. that is also the future of choice. just as no one school is the right fit for every student there is no magic one size fits

all approach from washington d.c. or any state capital when it comes to education. the future of choice lies in the states, in places that have been at the forefront of this effort for several years like arizona,florida, indiana, wisconsin and in places that are entering the arena like arkansas , mississippi, montana and illinois. today 26 states offer more than 50 different school programs that allow parents more opportunity to serve their kids needs. while there are similarities no two are the same. different states, different needs, different students, different solutions. that's the future of choice.

this is about putting parents and students above policies and politics. i have seen the impact and corresponding impact up close and in person. i heard it directly from the students, parents and administrators i had the opportunity to meet. one of the students put it quite bluntly. at kca i feel like i fit in. i feel like i belong. i didn't have that at my other school. every student in america deserves a shot to experience that same thing. and have no doubt, this isn't just about feelings. it's also about learning and

achieveme achievement. it's about putting students at the center of everything we do. time and time again studies have shown more option yield better results for all students. while previous studies have shown increased achievement for psychological lor ship it also showed an increased college attendance rate. further, this study demonstrated the longer a student participated in the choice program the better their long-term educational outcomes. the data are encouraging. i didn't need another research paper to know the program

kworks. i have seen living proof. thankfully they found a small school that fit her needs. she told me nearly a week or ten days she knew she had found a fit and she was on her way to thriving. she graduated high school, graduated college and just this may earned her masters degree. she is living proof that choice works and there are many more out there. hundreds of thousands more who don't have those same opportunities to today.

near wha we are doing now is not working. we are in the middle of the pack at east compared to other nations. those aren't words which i'm comfortable describing. it's not the future we should feel comfortable offering anyone else. what does the future hold? more funding? does that fix the problem? again t data would show otherwise. [ applause ] the u.s. spending more than nearly every other country in the developed world and without the achievement to go along with it. we have been doing what we have been doing for generations and keep expecting different

results. that is as we know the definition of insanity or we could do something different. we could be bold. we can be unafraid. we can choose to do what's right not because it's easy but because it's hard. his vision and determination made it a reality. if we can paut mut a man on the surely we can rethink school and we do that by embracing the future of education as one that fully integrates choice into every decision we make, not choice translated as vouchers or any other specified delivery

mechanism. no. choice translated as given every parent more control, more of a say in their child's future, more choices. the future of choice lies in trusting and empowering parents, all parents, not just those that have the power, prestige or financial where with all to make choices. no more from politicians in washington or state houses. it lies in caring less about the word that comes before school and more about the individual students that school seeks to serve. the future of choice lies in funding and supporting individual students, not systems or buildings. the future of choice lies in allowing students to progress at their own pace to take charge of their learning as recognizing them as the unique individuals

they are. the future of choice lies in embracing learning that fosters creativity, communication, collaboration and critical thinking, traits that prepare students for further education and for lifelong learning. the greatest country of mankind can and must do better for our students, all of them, because we nus do better for our future. our children deserve 100% of our effort. thank you again for the student to share my thoughts and i look forward to our conversation. [ applause plauz -- [ applause ]

>> thank you very much. it is very gracious of you coto come. education isn't going to have a chance. shouldn't those problems be given priority?

>> i'm a firm believe their if all parents are empowered we'll see significant changes with opportunity in general for those who have faced generational poverty wlooand who have not fe opportunity in our country. i believe it is the lack of access to and opportunity to choose the kind of education that works for their child. >> some people say we have 14,000 school districts and they can choose their school by choosing the neighborhood in which they wish to live.

don't we already have school choice? >> i have heard many who wish they could send their child to a school other than the one to which they were assigned. they don't have the economic needs to make that decision. if they are empowered with the funds for their child to choose a school that will work they will have opportunities that will be well beyond the ones that are in their assigned district. >> okay. so i understand that this choice to people without means but aren't some parents better equipped to make those choices more skilled? can figure out how to navigate through a choice system they

suggest just because of their economic situation they therefore either can't figure things out or don't care about their children. it is an insult and i haven't seen any parent who hasn't truly wanted and loved their child. i think about the young woman i refer today, in her case her mother was not capable of making a decision. thankfully she had a god mother who cared about her and who found a better option for her. she is a living example of what a difference and opportunity like that can make. >> one of the arguments we hear in massachusetts especially last

year in the election campaign was that if you expand charter schools and do give some parents more choice you're going to be taking money away from the public schools, from the schools run by the districts. so what's your take on that? >> well, again, i'm trying to make the argument we should be focused on funding students, not funding buildings or systems.

it is approaches to education that have clearly worked for some but they are not working for all too many. my view is empower parents to make those choices and the schools will -- the schools were not able to keep kids attracted to their school, they will start to make the changes as a result. we have seen that in florida where there's, you know, the widest range of choices. >> so how rapidly should we expand our choice system? is there a pace you think is the right pace? it has been slow up until now. >> i think yesterday has been

very good. seriously, we are losing thousands and thousands of kids every year. we can't wait any longer. we really cannot wait any longer. we have been doing things the same way and expecting different results for more than a couple of decades. this country was build on creative entrepreneurial risk taking people. it is right for those types of people to grab hold and solve problems and meet the needs of students. the rethink schools tour, i went to all kinds of schools. they were very focused on meeting the needs of specific kids. they were very open to say we are not for everybody. we don't expect everybody to want to come here. i think schools should have that attitude and all schools should be focused on rethinking how they can meet their students

'needs. >> what do you think of introduction of technology into schools? do you think it is a potential force to disrupt the system in a major way? >> i think it holds great potential. i think i have seen places where it hasn't been introduced particularly well. it has been mandated on top of something. that's not -- that's probably not the right answer, but again, i think we need to have a lot of different approaches, be able to take route and see what ultimately will work for the most kids and that's not to suggest that moving from where we are today that we should move to another scenario where it's very much the same only in a different approach or format. i mean i happen to think that personalized learning and mastery based competency

approached learning, it holds great promise. i think that might work far lot of kids. it might not work for everybody. we with shouldn't expect that everybody is going to learn in the future in the same way. >> you mentioned in your remarks that florida tax credit program has been identified as really quite successful in getting kids to college. i liked that because it was my students who did that study. thank you for that. >> i was so pleased to see it come ouchlt there's certain lay

lot of hope for that. if we go with a federal tax credit approach we need to ensure it is not one that will create a whole other bureaucracy. again, i really believe that states are best equipped and best positioned to address the broadest range of choice on an individual state level. i think it's great to see states taking this on in creative ways. i would just hope that more states would embrace this notion and the ones that actually have it would expand their offering and get more. >> and i proeappreciate the fac that it is for local schools. there is some federal role.

we do have a department of education. what would you say are some of the accomplishments you were able to realize? i know it's only eight months into your term. can you sort of sum of what you think are some of the most important things that have been done? >> obviously the implementation of the every student succeeds act in this last term is a really important part. the intention of that bill was to really return a lot of flexibility to the states and allow the states to become more creative in their approaches to meeting the students needs there. that process is underway. we have 35 or 7 more states to -- plans to approve. that's a big part of the k-12 focus right now. we have been reviewing and in

some cases either pausing or starting a new rule making process on a number of regulations related to higher education. you know, that process is ongoing. we are also in the midst of a very big review of the department in general to look for ways to streamline and make more effective and efficient and to also review all of the regulations. there is more and more piled on and very few times do you take a step back and say what is really relevant and necessary today? >> they asked for measuring something other than test

scores. an idea that's come up is let's look at chronic absenteeism. what is your thinking on that? >> you know, all of the states are coming up with different measures. i think that's an interesting approach. i'm not sure that that's the right approach or guest approach. i'll with hold judgment and let's see what the state's results are. another thing to remember is these plans are words on paper. the real proof is how they actually implement things. a lot of flexibility that congress built into the law is -- will come in the implementation of the plans and the states. one of my goals is to urge and encourage states to press things as far as they possibly can. you know, take what opportunity

you have and let's switch from being a compliance mentality, which has really been the case over the last decade or two into one that's more -- takes more ownership around your education in the state for which you're responsible. >> and these are all fascinating comments that you have. i think i need to turn the conversation over to others. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. >> so i know a lot of people have questions to ask. there are four microphones as per the usual forum drill scattered around the forum. let me remind everyone in the room about discourse and change and civility and allowing

everyone to fully participate in this question and answer period. the rules are designed to do that. the first rule is please identify yourself. the second is ask a question that is compact and brief. i am afraid i will have to cut anything off with a lengthy statement. questions end with a question mark and the rule is one question per person please. are people at the microphone? yes, ma'am. >> hello. i'm actually a parent here. i don't know how many parents will have in this room. i have children who have been in district schools, charter schools and schools. i think most systems are not working for us and not working for black parents like me, not

working for parents who aren't rich. i will assume you have good intentions, really. so i think there should be rails because they have never worked for my people. why don't you think you should have any say or any control over setting minimums of what that should look like so systems aren't the wild wild west. >> so what is the role of federal government to make sure the systems function well for everyone. >> first of all, let me thank you for asking that question. it is really great to hear about the fact that you have had experience with different schools. how many kids do you have? >> i have three. >> three. okay. what grades are they in now? >> i have a two-year-old, 11-year-old and 14-year-old. >> okay. okay.

great. my goal, my hope is that all parents would the power to be able to choose a that is right for your child. rather than being able to be directed by you that you would be able to say this school is not working for my kid today and i will find one that's working better. accompanying they there has to be a lot of great information available to parents to be able to know how is this -- frishlgs what is the school's approach to teaching and learning and secondly, what are the results? how are kids doing who who when he's not there. it would help pin form yourm

decision. we have lots of -- i guarantee in this audience we have lo representatives from lots of families who are able to make those decisions because they had the economic means to do it. it's not right for some people to be able to choose and you not to be able to and yet we spend more and more and more money funneling through a system that tries to tell you we'll do better next year and then it doesn't. >> thank you. i'm sorry. >> i love to talk too parents. >> gentleman here. >> i am a senior at the college. i have been lucky enough to take a claesz on education here at the kennedy school. we looked at a large body that shows we thefectiveness. traditional public schools are

very much falling behind. how do we which i think that and apply ate and what role does the government make i play in making those? >> reporter: schools will have to report more information to parents. that's a good step but i think we have to go much further in many cases. again, i'll refer back to the school tour i did a couple of weeks ago. schools have kind of thrown out and have taken -- have considered the student population they have and have readdressed their approach preponderance. the first was in kas per

wyoming. the county has open district choice. and this school has been run by teachers for 26 years. just within the last few years they switched to a mastery based competency based toeching and learning. thes if i had that, if they were able to take as long as you needed in another subject, i think that approach could have

revolutionary results for a lot of kids who are either getting board to death or getting left behind. i would challenge all to look serio seriously and. >> thank you. up here in then con knee. i'm a masters fellow in the program of education, pistol si and before this i was a i was an educator. making sure that every kid who walks in a school at the beginning of the day leaves happy, physically and emotion

emotionally safe. many of the policies or administration passed making us feel we have fewer tools in the schoolk-12 or taking title 9 protections or whether it's for profit schools with low graduation rates and low unemployment rates. [ cheers and applause ] can you talk a bit about how your administration thinks that safety for all kids, especially our most vulnerable kids when you are thinking about either passing or repealing policies. thank you very much. >> thanks. let me just say first a foremost, i agree that one of the most important things we can do is ensure that all kids have a safe and nurturing learning environment, and i am committed to that, and i know that everybody in the department of education and, frankly, the administration is committed to that too. the policies that you have referred to are some of the

regulations that you have referred to, the -- i think often with these issues we start talking past one another instead of really talking about the issue itself. so with respect to the transgender bathroom guidance, as you know, the whole legal history on that issue is very complicated, difficult, unclear and uncertain. let's just say that, with respect to any student that feels unsafe or discriminated against in their school that is the last thing we want and the office for civil rights at the department of education continues to hear and work with schools that have any of those issues to deal with, and we're committed to doing that on behalf of the students -- any student that has any issue of --

that they feel is discrimtor discriminatory. we are committed to continuing to do that. with respect to the title 9 sexual assault on campus issue, as you know we have taken steps to start a rule-making process that is going to actually be -- is actually going to go about this in the right way. i credit the former administration for having raised the issue of campus sexual assault to a level where we're talking -- it's not an issue that we'll be sweeping under the rug or putting into the back room of a college administration building. it should not be that way. i have said it before. i'll say it again. one sexual assault is one too many. by the same token, one student that is denied due process is one too many. so we need to ensure that that policy and that framework is fair to all students. all students. and we're committed to doing

that. >> one more question up here. >> hi. my name is jeffrey, a master in public administration here at the kennedy school. you are a billionaire with lots and lots of investments, and the so-called school choice movement is a way to open the floodgates for corporate interests to make money off of the backs of students. how much do you expect your net worth to increase as a result of your policy choices? and what are your friends on wall street and in the business world like the koch brothers saying about the potential to get rich off the backs of students? >> you can choose not to answer that, secretary. you can find this online on our website, c-span.org and search for betsy devos. financial and personal information exposed, and the person testifying today, the former chair and ceo of the

company. richard smith. he will be testifying before four different committees this week.

financial and persona financial and personal information exposed, and the person testifying today, the former chair and ceo of the company. richard smith. he will be testifying before four different committees this week.

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