[applause] around guess i can hang for a few minutes if anyone wants to beat up on me and ask questions. again.k you >> interested in american history tv? visit our website. schedule,ew our tv watch college lectures, archival films, and more. american history tv at c-span.org/history. flier john mccain was shot down over north vietnam during his 23rd mission on october 26, 1967. he ejected from his bomber into a lake, was captured, beaten, and held in filthy conditions without medical care despite life-threatening injuries.

two of the five years were spent in solitary confinement. on the 50th anniversary, senator john mccain talks about those events and reflects on the war's legacy an impact on america. : before we get into a work, we better have a strategy to win. this started out with a drip, jerk with the gulf of tonkin resolution weather was supposedly competition between vietnamese ships and american ships which led to a resolution led by lyndon johnson.

andcomplete lack of focus strategy on how to bring it to a close. i am sympathetic because the one most ofat overrode lyndon johnson's thinking, appropriately, with china. we certainly did not want to have a confrontation and conflagration that would lead to a real conflict there. actionsoned all of our so that it was a very gradual escalation which not only did not harm the enemy but strengthened their resolve. that led, of course, to all kinds of implications and repercussions. the new age, the use of drugs, demonstrations. write out here on the small, there were one million people are however many it was.

it really split our society in a way we sometimes forget. mass arrests, demonstrations, chicago, that all of us can look back and see on c-span. it was a tumultuous time. redt of it was spread by -- b by the conflict. we drafted the lowest income level of america and the highest income level found a doctor that would say they had a bone spur. that is wrong. we are going to ask every american to serve, every american should serve. later in the war, we went to the lottery system. but for years and years, it was the lowest income americans, which means a lot of minorities, which were forced to go and fight.

mark onhat is a black the history of this country, asking those with the lowest income level to do the fighting for us while the wealthiest state home -- stayed home. >> when you are taking off from the carrier, how apprehensive for you --worry you flying into a place like northern vietnam -- were you flying into a place like northern vietnam that you would be struck down? i transferred over to another ship when i was shot down. what was i thinking? i was a young fighter pilot. 28, something like that. that is what i wanted to do with my life. i wanted to go to combat. i wanted to go against the enemy.

it was not so much that they were the enemy as that is what i was trained to do all of those years, and i wanted to do it. i was not as if i was -- don't want to rectify this combat mission --to fly this combat mission. i was ready to go. my squadron mates with the same way. we took a lot of losses. one of the great things about being a fighter pilot is pressure everybody else -- you are sure everybody else will get shot down but not you. >> when that happened, how many vietnamese were around you in that lake? sen. mccain: it is a long story. i was barely able to get back to the surface. but then a bunch of them jumped in. there is a picture i am sure you will show of them pulling me out of the lake. you can see my arm is broken. when they out --

pulled me out, they were not very happy to see me. >> why not? sen. mccain: because i just finished bombing the place. it got pretty rough. broke my shoulder. again is what, i don't blame them -- hurt my new again. look, i don't blame them. we were in a war. i didn't like it. at the same time, when you are in a war and captured by the enemy, you cannot expect to have tea. long story short, pulled me out of the lake, put me in the truck, beat me up a little or a lot, and went to the now famous hanoi hilton prison which was a five-minute drive away. it is a very long story about how they found out who my father

was and decided to give me .reatment emptied of wonderful americans thought they moved me into die -- and two wonderful americans thought they moved me into die. they took care of me. when i got better, they put me in solitary confinement. i don't hold a grudge against the north vietnamese. i don't like them. there are some i would never want to see again. i was the same time, part of the conflict. ok? i thought they were some of the meanest people i have ever met in my life and i never want to see again. but there were several that were good people and that were kind to me, so that is why it was much easier for me to support, along with president clinton and others, the normalization of relations with our countries to

feel -- heal the wounds of war. >> when you got that, much did you and your dad talk about it? sen. mccain: a lot. it was very hard on my dad, particularly since i knew what was happening to me and he did not. that would come through hawaii in his command would want to talk about me. they did the right thing. they said please do not talk about admiral mccain's son. that takes up the whole conversation. every christmas for four years, he would fly up to the dmz, the dividing line between north and south vietnam, and have christmas with the marines. remember, these marines and soldiers were draftees. they were not there because they volunteered. mainly 18 and 19-year-old kids.

i have seen those pictures. they are just beautiful. he would come back very happy and restored from that experience. cognizant of the valuede north vietnamese my presence. as you know, there are so many stories we could tell. they offered me the chance to be released. but our code of conduct says sick and injured and by order of capture. i knew what they were offering the release -- the release -- mean release. if my name have been smith? easy. no was not three years after i refused, on a cold christmas eve in hanoi, i was in solitary

confinement. every cell had a loudspeaker in it. they were playing christmas music. that one of the songs was "i'll be home for shore.as" sung by dinah that was a bit nostalgic. the same guy that was the leader of all the camps came into my cell. to make a very long story short, he told me about an island ho chi minh used to love to go to which many years later i demanded a visit to and went to. the most importantly, at the end of the evening -- it was purely social. it was the only time it was ever done. he was giving me cigarettes and telling me about ho chi minh's island and how his father had been part of the viet minh. make a long story short, he said there is an island ho chi minh

relax in theand tonkin gulf. he said my father has gone out there with ho chi minh, but nobody knows about it. i said, really? years later, normalization of relations, the foreign minister of vietnam comes to washington. i'm having lunch in the senate dining room. he says whatever you want, we will do because you are our friend now. i said, ok, i want to go to ho chi minh's island. he said, how do you know about ho chi minh's island? no one knows about ho chi minh island. i said i know about ho chi minh island. six months later, we get on a boat and spent the night looking at the sunset from the balcony of ho chi minh's bedroom. haha. amazing story, right? >> big bedroom?

sen. mccain: not real big. not small. you could probably walk from and to end -- end to end of it in half an hour. anyway, we spent the night there. as i say, he came to washington. he has since passed away. for penge interpreter no --use me -- >> in paris? sen. mccain: in the paris peace talks. i have on the wall in my office harrimanent by avril back to the state department. classified, secret. lae duc to was the

negotiator. said they break, he intended to release admiral mccain's son but he refused. that was part of the documents because for ad while, everybody was believing we had left americans behind. such long stories. senator mitchell and senator selectt up this committee headed by me and john kerry. the conspiracy theory people said there are all these secret documents that will prove we left americans behind. report as we said everything has to be declassified that has anything to do with p.o.w./m.i.a.'s.

one of the documents that came out is the one i mentioned to you. it was from averill harriman in paris back to the state department. that was really remarkable. thousands of documents came out. that one was more than interesting. >> let me ask you. sen. mccain: sorry for the long answers. >> that is fine. we are seeing a lot of hate speech. i want to ask you, this may be sensitive, i want to ask you. you came out of the vietnam war and you say i am not bitter, i did not have nightmares. relate that to what our president said about you when he said you are no war hero. what did that feel like? here is a guy that had five deferments and all of that. how do you process that? sen. mccain: i think you just

ignore it, i really do. i watch what the president does, not what he says. i think the important thing about that statement is it is not about me. occasionally people come to us whose relatives did not get the deserve.ey arizona of war from weighed 110 pounds when the germans finally stopped fighting, so we gave him his medals at a retirement home. it was very moving. i was talking to him before.

he said, senator mccain, tell me why is it that donald trump is not like me? i said, sir, he does and so do all americans. it was not what he said about me . i'm in the arena. like that 92-year-old man who came out of a stalag weighing 92 pounds, that is what i take exception to. >> how much of the hate speech came out of a time in our existence similar to the time when you were shut down when the government was not telling us the truth? sen. mccain: the government was not telling us the truth. the whole mcnamara apparatus. they had this idea about graduated escalation.

that if we just stepped up the bombing more, it would drive them to the negotiating table and we would come to a peaceful end. what was happening was it was pumping up the morale of the north vietnamese because they thought they were beating us. we were able to fight back from the aggressors. the whole concept was fatally flawed. when thethat point was talks in paris had broken down, so finally richard nixon said to linn and wipe them out. we went in with b-52's and other all the and took out systems. guess what? they agreed to negotiate. i think had a lot to that somehowief you can convince the enemy to compromise when the enemy does

not think they are being beaten. offensiverse, the tet and there is so much we could talk about. it was such a morale boost. the chinese and russians were giving them everything they wanted. still the most heavily defended place in the history of the world was hanoi with the russian surface to air missions. most people are not going to believe this. but a russian ship would show up in the harbor, the missiles would be offloaded onto a vehicle, thicken up, put in place -- taken up, and put in place while we watched it. and then those missiles were fired at american aircraft. it is worse than ridiculous. the first target i had in combat had already been bombed 12 times. there was a pile of rubble. i went in and bond. the rubble again -- bombed the

rubble again. not far away was a bridge that was not on the "approved list." that is not the way to fight a war. of thes watching a tape north vietnamese head of the prison who said you were not tortured. sen. mccain: no, i was treated like a king. the featherbed had some lumps in it. what is the difference between he said you were not tortured and we have told people you were not tortured. why is it so hard for governments to tell the truth? sen. mccain: it is the classic communist -- what do you think? they would say yes, we beat him up, we broke his arm again. >> we don't do it either. we don't tell the truth. sen. mccain: no. that is one of the problems i have had for a long time.

our treatment of detainees, particularly waterboarding, that is one of the most embarrassing chapters in my view of american history, the way we treat it. there is a story ksm was being waterboarded and they sent a message back to c.i.a. saying we cannot get anything out of him. the answer was waterboard him some more. waterboarding was deemed a war crime and japanese officers were shot and executed because they waterboarded people. it is clearly a war crime. by the way, the c.i.a. has gotten away with it. they destroyed the film. they destroyed a lot of the information. it would be a black mark on the history of this country if we did that. frankly, i will never forgive the c.i.a. for what they did. >> back to the comparison on

something. we know a lot about your torture. what has been harder for you? living through the torture or living through the cancer? sen. mccain: living for cancer -- living through cancer is a challenge i have. living through torture is you never know what will happen the next morning, whether they will one around and say come out. at least with this fight imm, i know the enemy and what we have to do and that we take the consequences. had, welso say, i have are talking about 50 years, i am the most fortunate person of all the thousands you have interviewed that you will ever know. i've had the best and full life anybody could possibly have. i look at this challenge with

gratitude.ess, and gratitude i have had the opportunity to serve this country a little bit. change you noticed any in the way people are approaching you since you have dealt with this latest? sen. mccain: it has been more sympathetic. i am sure some of them are glad i am going. no, i have been greeted with -- look, people told me when i gave the speech the other night and 100 senators were in their seats that that was the first time it has happened. there has been an incredible outpouring of friendship. unbelievable. moves me to tears. >> what is your treatment now? sen. mccain: i receive radiation and chemo. i have had it done twice. now i am waiting for an m.r.i.

i want to tell you nobody expected me to have the energy level. i don't have any problems sleeping. i don't have any problem eating. i am exercising all the time. i am in fine shape. let's see what happens. i fooled them before. >> one last question about the vietnam legacy. of thes the impact vietnam war on our military up to this time? sen. mccain: the impact on our military of the vietnam war was a devastating blow. not a fatal blow, but a devastating blow. after the war was over, chief of staff of the united states army came to the armed services committee and said, senators, you have a hollow army. the military was eroded because of drugs, antiwar, the

inequities of the draft. we were in bad shape. , if i may be a bit parochial, ronald reagan came along with a commitment to rebuild our military. and we did. and it is good now. a lot of problems right now. the fact is it is not the morale issue. we had marine company officers discharging half their company because they were not performing. we gave them the authority to throw them out if people were not any good. marineas a famous said, a media guy came up to him and said you are throwing all of these guys out of the marine corps, what will be left? he said, see that guy with their? he is my driver.

if he and i are the only two left in the ring core, that is what it -- takes -- marine .orps, if that is what it take , it was a challenge to rebuild the military after the vietnam conflict. >> senator mccain, thank you for your time. >> you are watching american history tv, 40 hours of programming on american history every weekend on cspan3. follow us on twitter for information on our schedule and to keep up with the latest history news. announcer: up next on reel america, "space for women." the 1980 nasa recruitment and educational film features interviews with women employed by the agency in a variety of specialized fields. the film was directed by the emile award-winning -