information. we now have access to more information than any people in the history of the world. but we're running a little short on cue raters right now. we're getting so much information that we really can't process it. >> for more of this weekend's schedule go to booktv.org. >> c-span, where history unfolds daily. in 1979, c-span was created as a public service by america's cable television companies and is brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. officials from the u.s. and myanmar testified on relations with myanmar and how the u.s. and its allies are trying to help civilian government officials take a stronger approach with the military, which has been accused of killing thousands of people.

>> foreign relations committee will come to order. i want to thank each of you for being here. we thank you. it's very timely. in 2009, the obama administration shifted the direction of u.s. -- policy taking a leap of faith in an approach combining in engagement and pressure would usher in democratic reform where sanctions alone had failed. although many were skeptical of such a shift, 2010 elections provided an opportunity to test the credibility of a more proactive engagement approach. and in the ensuing years the united states worked to balance engagement with the military jon ta and the democratic grassroots movement. undoubt bli this engagement strategy had a positive effect

on burma democratic reforms including the 2015 election that brought the democratic opposition to power. and while the 2015 election was historic, burma's democratic transition has been a work in progress. along with its complex ethnic and cultural history, the burmese military continues to control key ministries in large swaths of the economy. which is why there was some concern in 2016 when the obama administration unilaterally rolled back most of the restrictions on u.s. engagement with burma. a year into this new policy the question is, was this too soon. the burmese economy remains weak and projected flows of u.s. investment have not materialized. human rights regulations are untouched, structure reforms have not progressed and the peace progress is stagnant. in recent weeks we've also

witnessed the appalling images of atrocities being committed by the burmese military against the rohingya minority. hundreds of men and women and children systemically killed hundreds of thousands of people fled as their homes burn. we continue to hear the truly heartbreaking accounts of human suffering. failure to protect against such atrocities is even more heightened given decades of hope staked upon the de facto leader. situation including half a million men, women and children who fled to bangladesh. also think we should not shy away from an honest assessment of the direction of u.s. policy towards burma. last year i raised specific

concerns with ms. aung san suu kyi about her government's treatment of rohingya, one of the most vulnerable to human traffickers around the world. and i publicly shared my shock and dismay at her dismissiveness of these concerns, an attitude she has maintained even in the face of unfolding humanitarian crisis and mounting international criticism. her failure to acknowledge the seemingly systemic campaign of brutality by the burmese military continues to undermine the civilian government and burma's democratic transition as a whole. the united states should not abandon burma, however it may be time for a policy adjustment. hope to have a candid conversation here today about the trajectory of current u.s. policy towards burma including the role that congress can play in encouraging democratic reform and addressing humanitarian efforts. i want to thank you again for being here. i want to take, i think it's

murkily's birthday today, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> i can tell you were not paying attention to my opening statement and i just want to know if you were listening. and i understand you're getting ready to take also codell to burma, is that correct? >> we're certainly hoping to put that together.

600,000 now of 1.2 million. there's been a systematic burning of their villages. this didn't just start. it's been a campaign that's gone on for a long period of time. since 1982 law denies them citizenship even though they have been residents for generations.

they're denied freedom of movement, denied freedom of education, denied health care. this has been a systematic effort to destroy an ethnic community. and once again we see this happening and once again expectation is well, it's far away. we'll just let it go along. we got to be outraged about what's happening. we need to see the international community come together and say no we will not let this continue. that we'll hold those accountable that are responsible. that we'll provide it humanitarian need immediately. that we'll stop this type of conduct in a civilized society. cannot occur. yes, i think it's genocide.

i know there will be some discussion about it whether it's genocide or not. deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part. that's what's happening. they're trying to destroy the population. are people arguing intent. what else are they doing this for other than the purity of their country and their lack of tolerance for a minority population? for decades the burmese government has systematically opressed the rohingya people. that is the fact. and they have deliberately failed to integrate the population into the general population. a u.n. high commissioner of human rights correctly stated that decades of persistent and systematic human rights violations have almost certainly contributed to the nurturing of violent extremism with everyone

ultimately losing. they complain about extremism. they're creating it. in my opinion we're witnessing a military-sponsored ethnic cleansing campaign on the rohingya and it will take ing significant engagemented the highest levels in partnership with the burmese civilian government to hold perpetrators accountable for these horrific acts. unfortunately the rohingya crisis is not the only vexing challenge burma faces. the burmese military continues to hold significant influence in power and the economy. the peace process was sought to end, the long standing civil war in the country has stalled. there's long been free speech and political oppression. the chairman's right. the state counselor was here. she's an impressive person.

but she's not taking on the challenge. she's not responding to the crisis in her own country. the military control burma today. that's unacceptable. that's why we imposed sanctions because of military control. sanction relief was given for what? so people can be ethnically cleansed? i agree with the chairman. we need to not only reevaluate, we need have a policy in regards to burma that we understand. that addresses these human rights violations. that reevaluates our position as far as having normal relations with burma and the release of our sanctions. the president will be attending the asean summit very shortly. will he be mentioned burma and human rights as a top priority during this trip? i certainly hope so.

and i do want to compliment the bangladesh government for keeping the borders open. that's been one bright spot. but there is a humanitarian crisis of the refugees in bangladesh that we all have to respond to. so i am looking forward to hearing from our witnesses. i thank each of them. they all have very distinguished records and great confidence in their expertise on the subject. but i do notice on a subject as important as this, it would we nice to have at least one witness that was confirmed by the senate that brings that degree of importance from the administration on the subject and lastly i would ask consent that numerous statements from ngo's about this statement be made part of the record. >> without objection, and thank you for your strong opening statement. you and i were together i guess at vice president biden's home when it was very evident that

the titular head, if you will of the country, is very dismissive as it relates to this whole group of people. >> particularly on the trafficking issue i remember you brought up. there was no reality at all it was going on. >> our first witness is deputy assistant secretary for at the bureau of east asian and pacific affairs for the department of state. thank you, sir for your service. second witness today is deputy assistant secretary for the bureau of population refugees migration and migration at the department of state. thank you for your service, sir. our third witness is ms. kate siri. that was an approving smile. i did that correctly. thank you. acting deputy assistant of ed a main administrator for democracy, conflict at the u.s. agency for international development. thank you for your service. if each of you could sums are in about five minutes, any written materials you have will be

entered into the record. we thank you again for your service and helping us with this issue. if you would just go in the order that you're sitting. >> chairman corker, ranking member carden, distinguished members of the committee, burma has emerged from a decade's long struggle to defy authoritarian rule and to transition to a democratic society. however, it a devastating humanitarian crisis in rakhine state has exacerbate the suffering of ethic rohingya and other populations and threatened this otherwise peaceful transition. as do other long standing challenges that the elected government authority, civilian authority inherited a mere 16 months ago. although the new government is committed to ending conflicts and improving the prospects for all the diverse populations of burma, today's hearing

illuminates the fragility of this conference. on august 25th, attacks on burmese security forces and subsequent violence and massive displacement occasionsed by the military's disproportionate response have created a crisis that demands our undivided attention. our efforts seek to end the violence, support the displaced in their return home, address the atrocities and address the per republican natural conditions that sparked this most recent colossal population movement over 600,000 people to bangladesh and several thousand others internally. president trump has discussed the situation with other leaders. secretary tillerson called state counselor to reafirm support for the emerging democracy and urge action on this crisis. vice president pence denounced the heavy handed response at the u.n. where ambassador hailey called for an international role in ending the violence.

our ambassador has engaged government military leaders. i visited burma, including rakhine state and met with other government military figures and displaced populations. we have consulted with many countries. our collective message to burma asean members. our message to our stake holders is clear, end the violence, protect civilians, expand humanitarian and media access. hold those guilty accountable. repatriot safely those who have fled and cooperate with the international community. we've inhad krjed burma's to overcome mistrust and missed opportunities for international help. although the crisis persists, our engagement is yielding some results. on october 12th, silaid out goals. for repatriation and

humanitarian assistance and settlement and peace and development. we're engaging with her government to implement its goals. burma recently sent a senior official to bangladesh and more senior contact is scheduled this week. a top u.s. official visited burma last week to address the u.n. response to the humanitarian and rue man rights aspect of the crisis. i travelled to singapore, thailand and vietnam. others have engaged across the region. building support for constructive diplomatic engagement. we welcome asean's decision to activate it's own humanitarian assistance mechanism for rakhine state. we know that a prerequisite is assurances of security. accordingly. the department of state has identified and announced new and ongoing actions to pursue accountability for those who have committed violence, including, among other measures,

suspending travel wagers from military leaders, assessing jade act authorities to consider economic options available to target individuals associated with the atrocities. finding that all units and officers involved in operations in northern rakhine state are pursuant to the lehigh law. ineligible for assistance programs. rescinding invitations for burmese security leaders to attend u.s.-sponsored events, maintaining an embargo on military sales. consulting on accountability options at the u.n., the human rights councils and other venues. pressing for access for the fact finding mission and exploring mechanisms under u.s. law, including global magnisky targeted sanctions. a failure will only result in a future replay of this tragedy. it is thus crucial that we

support burma in implementing the recommendations of the rakhine advisory commission led by former u.n. secretary general coe kofi anan sto address underdevelopment, shortcomings and services, access to justice and a citizenship process for all people in rakhine state. an emerging democracy, the country's success is important to us. to burma's diverse populations and to the future. the long-term viability depends on reforms to end violence and the potential for international terrorism. the very ingredients associated with the current crisis and other ongoing conflicts. we must also find ways to support those courageous forces within government and societies to seek a better future. in doing so, we look to partner

with congress on burma as we have done across successive administratio administrations in decades. we thank this committee for its leadership and bipartisanship. chairman corker, ranking member carden, distinguished members of the committee, thank you for inviting us to this important hearing. i'm grateful the opportunity to update you on how the u.s. government is targeting life changing humanitarian assistance and the challenges we face ahead. the violence in rakhine state continues to devastate delicate populations and cause families, mostly women and children to flee for their lives. the violent reaction that followed prompted more than 600,000 people to flee bangladesh, bringing the total number of rohingya in bangladesh to roughly 1 million people and force further displacement inside rakhine state itself.

the magnitude and speed of this displacement development and speed make it one of the most dramatic humanitarian crises in decades. in burma our number one humanitarian priority is gaining access to those in need in rakhine state. burma's civilian government has committed publicly and privately to provide humanitarian assistance through the red cross movement. the movement has stressed to the burmese government that it will not be able to fully meet humanitarian needs and the u.n. agencies and international organizations and nongovernmental organizations will also need operational space. we emphasize at all opportunities to burmese officials at all levels of government the requirement to allow humanitarian assistance to reach those in need. we continue to press the government and the military both publicly and privately to end the violence to protect the security of all communities and to allow rohingya refugees to

voluntarily return to their homes after burmese authorities insure they can do so safely. responsibility remains with burma. we greatly appreciate the government of bangladesh for opening its doors, many of whom arrived after walking for days in need of food, water, shelter and medical care. the monsoon season has exacerbates the situation as flooding has made aid delivery even more challenging. in every meeting with bangladesh officials we thank them for allowing refugees to cross over into bangladesh. we urge them to uphold humanitarian principals while balancinging their own security concerns. in addition the united states is providing humanitarian assistance to help vulnerable populations affected by the rakhine state of violence. an estimated $434 million required for emergency response in bangladesh to meet needs only

through the end of february 2018. thanks to the support of this congress in fy '17 the united states contributed nearly $104 million in assistance to displaced populations and in burma for refugees from burma throughout the region. of this funding department of state's contribution totalled nearly $176 million. 3/4s of the total humanitarian response. including nearly $34 million in emergency assistance to address this latest crisis. this allowed partners on the ground to respond immediately as refugees were already arriving to the already established and newly established camps in bangladesh. our contributions provide food, shelter, water, sanitation, health and core relief items both inside burma and in bangladesh. we also target assistance for victims of gender-based violence

and particularly for vulnerable children. yesterday in geneva, interested countries pledged over $4 million to meet the need. the united states is not carrying this burden alone. the primary goals are protection and establishing meaningful durable solutions for those that have been displaced include the chance to go home again in safety and dignity when conditions permit. the u.s. government humanitarian assistance provides an important lifeline until this possibility becomes a reality. ladies and gentlemen, we're grateful for the generosity of the congress and the american people who make our assistance possible, we will make the best possible use of it. thank you and i'll be happy to answer your questions. >> ms. siri. >> yes. chairman corker, ranking member

carden, members of the committee, thank you for inviting me to speak with you today. the violence in northern rakhine state has resulted in massive displacements in not only myanmar but bangladesh. the this marks the decision point with the whole world watching. in response to the crisis usaid is providing humanitarian assistance on both sides of the bangladesh border. this is in addition to our ongoing developmental assistance which supports civil society, good governance and economic development and the country's channeling peace process. through these programs we're working to address the things that created this cycle of violence including this most recent crisis. we're deeply concerned about the current human rights abuses. more than 600,000 people have fled the recent violence and sought refuge in the bangladesh. stark challenges remain to adequately respond.

the people fleeing over to bangladesh, many women and children arrive only with what they could carry. they require urgent life saving assistance, including save drinking water, emergency sanitation, emergency food assistance and shelter. inside rakhine state there's an unknown number of internaly displaced persons in need of assistance. in 2017, the united states provided nearly $100 million -- in humanitarian assistance for the displaced from burma fleeing to bangladesh. through use aids offer of foreign disaster assistance, the agency fro -- we expect to continue responding in fiscal year 2018. in burma our main challenge is not the lack of resources but a lack of access. since the august 25th attacks many wrouf say its partners were forced to suspend its work due

the military security operations in rakhine state. government restrictions have prevented humanitarians from reaching people in need. false and misleading rumors about the rohingya have contributed to that volatility. we continue to allow unhindled how many anitarian access and we urge the media to allow monitors to access and assess the afflicted area. the united states has stood by vulnerable communities in burma for decades. the county try's recent emergence from decades of isolation and the establishment of a formal mission in 2012 has allowed us to expand our aid programs to more effect difly support those in burma reconciliation and peace, improve the lives by increasing access to better health services and economic activities.

and usaid continues to support an inclusive peace process and support civil society. let me be frank. the path we face ahead is by no means an easy one. and the development challenges in burma are complex and dep rooted. it remains in the u.s. government pfsh interest to continue our support for burma's democratic transition while addressing root causes of conflict in rakhine and other parts of burma. this support is critical to to helping the government of usual ma to sustain the transition and deliver the dividends of democracy that people of burma expect. the latest violence has exacerbated the existing human rights crisis impacting the

lives of thousands. you must be honest and forthright and clear on what we expect as humanitarians and as americans. in the long term our development efforts must continue to address the underlying drivers of the violence. but in the immediate term, untim the conflict is resolved, we shall remain resolute to alleviate the suffering of all communities. we call all stake holders to ends the violence and seek a lasting revolution to this conflict. thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today and i look forward to your questions. >> thank you all for your testimony. i'll turn to senator carden. >> i also thank you for your testimony. if i could get a yes or no answer on your personal views whether what's happening there is ethnic cleansing. i understand the administration is going through a process. but i would like to get your view, whether with you believe this is ethnic cleansing or not. yes or no would be helpful. >> thank you, senator. if you'll permit me a slightly more elaborate answer. >> no. >> my bosses have said -- >> i think clarity is important

here. i'm asking your view. >> unfortunately i'm not in a position to make a determination. you're correct we're referring to a process to lead to that determination. in the meantime we conclude there have been atrocities, massive displacement, depopulation of villages that cause us great concern. therefore we're pursuing all avenues for accountability. hypothetically a determination of ethnic cleansing will not change our pursuit of full accountability. >> could you answer yes or no. whether you believe it's ethnic cleansing? >> senator, i worked in humanitarian affairs off and on for 30 years and i've witnessed over that time and in this case we've seen so-called clearing operations that have resulted in the clearing of 603,000 people from their home countries and

probably 1eseveral hundred thousand to a foreign country, people from inside burma to other displacement. i'm not in the position like my colleague to characterize it today but i do want to say that to me this very closely resembles some of the worst atrocities i see. >> maybe i can get one out of three. >> unfortunately the role of our organization is not to define legally what is happening. the role of our organization. >> i asked your personal opinion. >> i'm not in a position to offer a personal opinion. >> i think this is one of the problems we have. clarity is important. this is ethnic cleansing. it's pretty clear and if we don't say it, it will happen again and again and again. now, i'm for the efforts for stopping the violence and i support all the international efforts for humanitarian assistance for those in bangladesh and those displaced in burma. i'm for pursuing the peace process. absolutely.

it's got to be our top priority. but if we don't do something to end the cycle of violence with impunity. it's going to happen again, the next country will do it. and mr. murphy i appreciate your view that you want to impose sanctions against the military or use magnitsky, which is a bill i'm proud about. but where are the generals for what they've done in raping people, burning villages. where is the accountability for those who are responsible for directing this? >> senator, i agree with you. accountability is vitally important. >> what is the united states doing? >> as i said in my statement we have announced measured to pursue accountability. including the consultation with the very organizations that have those tools available to them. the united nations, the u.n.

human rights council and others. we are taking measured ourselves but we have to admit we have very limited influence and leverage. we don't have a normal relationship with this military. we haven't for decades. and the process of lifting sanctions we have isolated restrictions on the military that remain in place. we will take additional measures as i've said to restrict travel here, to explore measures how we can sanction individuals found to be accountable. poobe accountable. and that's an important path forward for us to take. >> who's in charge in burma? is it the civilian or military? >> that's an excellent question and the answer like burma itself is complicated. this is a power sharing arrangement. the civilian -- elected government -- >> who's responsible for the atrocities?

>> there are many contributors to violence. the security forces told the greatest responsibility for protecting civilians and they have failed. however, we must point out there s there vigilante action. civilians conducting violence against other civilians. the rohingya militants -- >> it's not by the military? >> in some cases they are acting in concert with security forces, yes. >> so did we make a mistake on relaxing the sanctions because burma was moving away from a military government? >> senator, i think the decision to lift the national emergency was a reflection that sanctions had run their course -- >> so you're talking about imposing new sanctions? >> we're talking about targeted measures. the military is what you consider that target? that's an institution of its

government. i would agree with you if you're talking about holding people criminally responsible for their criminal activities. i don't see that coming. thank you, mr. chairman. >> senator, young. >> thank you mr. chairman and our panelists for your attendance here today. i agree with the ranking member. we need to speak with moral clarity on this matter. the united states clearly needs to lead. ambassador hailey, i was proud of her. she assessed the burmese government is conducting a quote brutal sustained campaign to cleanse the country. cleanse the country of an ethic minority. the u.n. high commissioner has referred to the situation as a textbook example of ethnic cleansing. i understand your positions and we're in the course of an assessment internally, but i hope our government speaks with moral clarity on this matter. we often refer to the international community and the international community some

have characterized as an oxy moron phrase. right now if the u.s. doesn't lead, i don't think the international community is going to end up in a position where they are not only condemning this sort of behavior, but acting 3w0act ing boldly to address the needs of the affected populations. there are relativestic nations, those who will passively stand by and watch these sorts of actions continue unless the united states leads on these and other matters. so, thank you to my colleague, senator merkley. he worked with me on a letter we sent to ambassador hailey regarding this very issue of ethnic cleansing in rohingya some days ago. 21 of my colleagues signed on to it. including the ranking member. have each of you reviewed that letter? okay. thank you. i saw an affirmative nod from

each. we called on the burmese government to permit safe access to journalists, u.n. fact finders and to humanitarians. and secretaries murphy and scarela, you indicated the number one humanitarian priority is to gain access to those in need in the rakhine state. ms. seary, you called the lack of access the main challenge and you say that due to restrictions imposed by the burmese authorities that access is not happening. why is the lack of access to effected populations the main challenge and what is the burmese precise role in hindering that access? >> senator, thank you for your question and for the letter from you and so many other members highlighting that issue of

access for journalists is absolutely essential. thank you for including that in your letter. the reason it's the main challenge is because there's northern rakhine state and central rakhine state. in northern rakhine state, which is the area that's most deeply affected, the only international ngo that has access is the red cross movement and they have very limited abilities. they have said themselves they cannot provide the range of support that is needed. our partners, the u.n. agencies stand by and are ready to provide that support but cannot do so. in central rakhine state there's more ability to provide access and help but it's also severely limited. we've recently been able to restore some of the service but only operating at 50%. the question about the role of the burmese government is that the burmese government authorities are the ones that provide permits necessary to access these areas and they have not given it.

another complicating factor, is that even when there are travel permits, there's excessive layers of bureaucracy and high levels of ethnic tension in those areas that make it difficult to deliver that aid. and one more thing on the importance of access for journalists and media. this gets to the question of accountability. unless we're actually able to see and document what's happening, that makes accountability in the future more important. that's why we continue to call for and appreciate your support. >> i got 30 seconds left. i want to commend the administration. the administration has generally spoken forcefully about the need for humanitarians to gain access and on the diplomatic front i feel thus far they've been pretty strong. secretaries, you did indicate the burmese government's

commitment to provide humanitarian access was encouraging. to me i'm not particularly encouraged. neither gestures nor statements nor some feudal actions at this point are enough. we need bold action. i hope each of you will communicate that to your burmese counterparts every time you're interacting with them. i'll certainly be delivering that strong message and thank you again for your service. >> thank you, mr. chairman and thank you for holding this hearing because i think it's so important we put a very bright spotlight on this horrendous situation. and i'll be happy to use the term that our representing us from the executive branch not willing to use. this ethnic cleansing.

238 villages destroyed and not one word from our president. thousands of children slaughtered, not one word from president trump. thousands of women raped, thousands of men, women shot as they fled from their villages. 600,000 refugees and not one word from our president during this horrific situation. are you recommending to the president he speak loudly and forcefully on this issue if each of you could tell me yes or no. >> senator, as i noted the president has spoken with a number of leaders about the situation -- >> excuse me, the president has not made a public statement. are you recommending that he take a forceful public statement to shine the international spotlight on this issue? >> i believe the administration spoken with clarity. >> you are not saying yes or no so i assume the answer is no. are you, sir, recommending to the president that he speak and take a public position on this? >> senator, merkley, thank you very much for the question.

we are recommending we speak forcefully and directly about -- >> thank you. can we expect such a statement from the president in the next week? >> i'm not in a -- >> thank you. appreciate you pressing for that. >> likewise, obviously as an agent, we refer to our state department's colleagues' lead on this, but yes, as an agency, we continue to call on all parties to speak forcefully to do what we can to end the violence and hold all people accountable. >> you can't really call on all parties to speak forcefully if our own president is not speaking forcefully. i have a commission report of the united nations office by commissioner, september 13th through 24th if i could enter that into the record. >> without objection. >> i'd like to quote a piece of this and they use the term myanmar security forces purposely destroyed property of

rohingya, torched their villages not only to drive the population out in droves but also prehaven't the fleeing victims to return the their homes. the destruction of the burmese military of houses, fields, livestock, and even trees, behrending the possibility of rohingya to returning to normal lives in the future almost impossible. it also indicates an effort to effectively erase all signs of memorable landmarks and geography of the villages in such a way that a return to their lands would yield nothing but desolate and unrecognizable terrain. information received indicates the myanmar security forces targeted teachers and cultural and religious leadership and other people of influence in an effort to diminish rohingya culture and knowledge. does that sound like ethnic cleansing to you?

don't everyone rush to answer. >> senator, first, let me say that through the support of the united states congress the united states government is the strongest supporter of the unhcr. not only financially but through our diplomatic engagement around the world. we support what the high commissioner is doing strongly. we believe what he has described are in fact an accurate depiction of the atrocities. >> i appreciate that and i'm very glad to hear that because i believe that if you carry that message to the highest levels of the department that you believe this is an accurate description, that we will see forceful representation of america responding to this. i recall our secretary of state talking to me when he was being considered for nomination and he said he was going to provide moral leadership guidance and yet here we have this horrific

instance and we have virtually no voice, no pressure, no ---ing very polite words about supporting the evolving democracy in burma and stuff. almost things that sound like well, we think they're doing a good job trying to address this. they're not doing a good job. the military -- and none of you testified that the military is behind this. this is an act not by random forces. this is an act by the government of burma and we need to respond with enormous moral clarity and force on this issue. and i hope you will make that happen. >> thank you very much. senator gardner. >> thank you, mr. chairman, to the witnesses for being here today at this very important hearing. i think all of us recognize the crisis as nothing short of a humanitarian catastrophe and the u.s. must be resolute in assisting the refugees and seeking accountability for the many crimes being committed.

i reiterated that very message personally in my meeting with burma's ambassador to the united states and will continue to do so. deeply saddened and outraged at the events. we all are and have to be. i visited burma in may of 2016 and had a long conversation, as well as the united states as well. with the leader. and expressed our condemnation in the strongest terms possible what's unfolded for decades. the recent events threaten to -- and reform in burma i witnessed firsthand during that visit. and we must also look to the broader questions of whether u.s. policy has succeeded in that country. and i know that's what this committee hearing is about today. and i thank the witnesses for participating. i'm struck by

several of the answers. i guess i want to start following up on something that senator carden said to secretary murphy. last year, last congress the decision was made to lift the sanctions against burma. will that be reversed? was it a mistake? >> senator, appreciate your long standing interest in burma and i think your visit there does equip you to understand many of the challenges this country faces. i want to take the opportunity to speak the moral clarity. there's been questions about where the administration is. we've stated in our testimony today we have witnessed terrible crimes. there is increasing evidence that security forces are associated that vigilante actions. these individuals will be held accountable. we will pursue accountability.

i have also stated that american security forces have -- security forces bear the greatest responsibility for protecting local populations and have failed to do so. our sanctions program was designed to see the expression of the will of the burmese people. we saw successful election, an elected government just 16 months ago began very significant efforts to end conflicts around the country and try to address the plight of the rohingya people. that does not excuse it for criticisms of its shortcomings. we're looking for all stake holders to take actions. we also have to realize what this government is up against. i don't take their position or defend it, but the elected government does not have full authority over the military. in rakhine state, leaders are

opposed to humanitarian aid. they're opposed to citizenship to the rohingya. they hold incredible sway. the entire country has prejudice and racism directed at the rohingya. any government is going to have difficulties in overcoming those obstacles. so we have to support those in government who see a better path forward and indeed this government invited the formation of the commission and adoptd and accepted the recommendations. we want to support those because they provide the best path forward for the rohingya people. broad sanctions, those are under discussion. but i have to allow broad sanctions could very well make those vulnerable populations that still remain more vulnerable, susceptible to the same violence and criminal activity that's taken place thus far. we have to be very careful with our approach so we can achieve the objectives we're talking about today.

better protection for these populations, safe return, accountability accountability for those who have committed atrocities. >> i expressed my concern over and over. i even put a hold on ambassador over my objection that we lived the national emergency order at state department that were put in place and i just don't understand, i still do not understand how we think somehow we are better off having done that and the actions that we've seen by -- in burma, how the rohingya are better off as a result of it. seems like we gave a carrot without any return to behavior that would improve the plight of the human controversy that's unfolding there. china, obviously very important economically. what have they done? >> senator, i think first on sanctions we are talking about targeted measures to try and

achieve behavior change to protect civilians. we have to recognize in terms of broad sanctions, the united states was the last country standing with significant restrictions, it was hurting our interests, it was hurting the ability of this elected government to have a good start in addressing the problems that had been ignored by 50 years of military authoritarian oppressive rule. it does not mean that burma had reiched p ee eed perfection. we have to look at the tools availability to us. proper actions are required by all in the international community, including china. we would hope as a member of the security council, china could join us in recognizing the military's response has kp exacerbated these problems. and china needs to work with others on the security council to understand that this could

affect the neighbors in the region. >> i don't think we have seen very good -- >> thank you all very much for being here, and i share the frustration that you're hearing among my colleagues on this committee to better understand what's happening in burma. i understand that there have been allegations of sexual violence, of rape, of other actions specifically targeting the rohingya women. >> yes, senator, we share your

concerns. the report s primarily coming from refugees would suggest a wide range of abuses and atrocities, including sexual violence against women and children. these are particularly vulnerable populations within a larger vulnerable population of rohingya. i want to emphasize, this is not a monolithic government that has full authority. >> i understand. >> we have had conversations with our ambassador to burma, along with our chief of the armed forces. we have been concerned for other stake holders, including local populations and local leaders in rohine state. and could set burma back. so it's in the country's

interests, not only to protect local populations, but to pave a path forward that's in the betterment of all 55 million people. >> i appreciate that. unless you have a different response, ambassador, i'm going to move on. >> i would just like to say that our ambassador went to visit with victims of gender based violence so that she could hear their testimony. we provide assistance to thousands of people who have been victims of that abuse. >> this week senator isaac son and i are going to reintroduce the international violence against women act and i think that points to this legislation as we try to address these crimes that not happening just here but in other places around the world. i understand that there are an estimated 69,000 pregnant

rohingya refugee women in bangladesh. i'm not sure if is that number is correct. but the main assistance they're getting is from the unfpa. i certainly support that, i support the efforts that unfpa makes around the world to help pregnant women and vulnerable women who are in need of prea ad post natal care. will you tell us how we support those efforts? >> the united states does support efforts for women who are particularly vulnerable. we're working with a number of different agencies to ensure there's gender appropriate latrines that are available.

>> but we're not supporting the efforts of unfpa, is that correct? >> the united states is limiting its support for unfpa at this time. >> that's unfortunate, given the number of women in vulnerable positions that really do need that help. i don't knowive any of you can answer this question, but there have been people who have expressed concern about why he has not spoke on out more forcefully on this circumstance. mr. murphy, i guess this is for you. what's your assessment of the situation there? why do you think she's not spoken out more forcefully, and what do you think would happen to that power sharing arrangement if she did? >> senator, my of parents are residents of new hampshire and asked me the same question. i can't speak for suchi.

one of the things we're facing is widespread prejudice and racism directed specifically at the rohingya. the ethnic rakhine who have dominated the political space have suffered from racial intolerance. we would like to see more champions, more vocal voices for the rohingya. we know it a very complicated environment. speaking out on behalf of the rohingya is very complicated. we are urging broader -- not just to the government, also to the armed forces, also the ethnic leaders and also the

broad nation of the burmese nation. think about your fellow human beings, the terrible treatment of the rohingya is a terrible -- for all burmese to understand, they're all in this together. rohingy -- we're looking not just for a single champion, but for all burmese to understand that human dignity is a real important aspect of this crisis. >> what kind of a message do you think it sends to people -- could i just ask one more question? >> as longing as you don't ask him to answer it. >> that's fine. it's a rhetorical statement. what kind of a message does it send to burmese leadership, military and civilian, when in the united states of america we

have a travel ban on muslim majority countries members coming into this country? thank you, mr. chairman. >> i want to thank all three of you for your service. i think what you're seeing here today is some considerable frustration and outrage amongst members of this committee and there is no difference of our feeling all of the community in that regard and we all share that frustration, we all share the suffrage. i want to thank you for your leadership on this issue, and for speaking with the moral clarity that you have spoken with here today. i appreciate that you don't communicate directly to the president and pound on his desk and tell him what he should say or shouldn't, many have tried and most unsuccessfully. you're at the state department, certainly you speak with the full force and effect of the

united states foreign policy behind you, and we appreciate that. our job is to help craft policy and that will be done, i'm sure as we move forward through resolutions or attastatutes tha address this problem. i think today you've been very clear in assessing how difficult this is to do. and one of the things that i find that shows the difficult nature of this, and these are my words not yours, but it seems like you're facing an entire pop lak lags that addresses -- obviously it's manifesting it's in some very bad things. now i don't know how you address that, certainly sanctions are one way to do that. but prejudice is not easily overcome. and frankly, i don't know that sanctions are something that are

going to convince people that they should be thinking differently, than what they are. but in any event, i would like to hear each of you address briefly, if you would, this issue that we're not dealing with an individual, which we frequently are in some countries, but the civilian government-plus the population of the country that is turning a blind eye toward this. do you have shuttiuggestions fo change in that context? mr. murphy, let's start with you and work our way down. >> senator, i really appreciate your perspectives and this current crisis is appalling, it's sad, it's outrageous. i want to share with you, my frustration doesn't begin with this crisis, it was 20 years ago when i first visited rakhine state. and have worked throughout my

career on the particular challenge of the repressed rohingya population. it's been a long standing problem. we need to take measures to try and achieve behavior change and a path forward. we have identified something new in the current elected government environment. and that is a willingness to try and tackle the underlying challenges in rakhine state, a path to citizenship, development for all of the underdeveloped populations that reside there. i want to revisit that rakhine advisory commission, it's no small measure that this commission was formed under the u.n. secretary general, and came up with 88 very specific recommendations, the new government has embraced them. we now need to see implementation, we need other stake holders to support those recommendations, including the armed forces and local leaders inside rakhine state.

those include cooperation and coordination with bangladesh, access to basic government services that have been lacking, most important the path to citizenship, so this disenfranchised population has an opportunity to participate and gain the benefits that other citizens enjoy. it's not going to beize s ize e. but we have a government that is willing to do something, where previous military regimes have -- we are calling on the government to do all that it can to end the violence, stop the hate speech, pave the way for repatriated refugees and find a way towards national peace. this government has also convened something called approximate panlong conference, which has been unprecedented since the 1940s, bringing

representatives throughout the country to come together and resolve conflict. there's ongoing conflict in the north, burma's been at war with itself nonstop for over 70 years. and this government is trying to achieve some peace. we need to work with those stake holders who see a better way, at the same time, we have walked about targeted sanctions and measures for those who are not with the program. we have to have a measured balanced approach, i think senator. >> my time is up, i apologize i i really wanted to hear both of your perspectives also. i would say thank you again for these services. don't give up, represent us as you have and continue with development of policy that we'll do the best we can to do something about this. >> thank you very much. >> thank you mr. chairman. this is an important hearing and i missed a little bit of your

opening statements. i know the state department is under way with an analysis to determine whether what's happening in burma's ethnic cleansing. just for the record, french president macron said that what's happening in rohngya is genocide. i would urge with dispatch, us, you know, determineding what we think it is and labeling it. mr. murfully, i heard you talk about vigilante action. this is clearly action that isn't just an expression of sort of endemic prejudice, but there's official actors involved including the military in ways i think are not deniable.

that's not the same as vigilante action in my terms. you also condemned the military's disproportionate response, and i think that's a disproportionate mease military. i don't view the role of the military at least in accounts i've read, as being a a responder. i think they have been an initiator of many of the attacks on the rohingya so if we want to be careful about language like ethnic cleansing and genocide, we need to be careful about phrases like the military is a responder or there's villagilan action. i think the evidence would suggest it has more of an official sanction and i guess haas the that's the basis of the work of the state department. i want to ask questions about banglade bangladesh.

these refugees are going to banglade bangladesh, could you tell the committee how the flow of refugees is affecting that country and are things that we can do to help them deal with with these refugees? >> the crush is unmanageable for almost any country. and also facing difficult weather. it's nearly impossible. i think that bangladesh has done an extremely admiral job. first by opening its borders then by working with the international community to permit opportunities for stance to reach the people who are there. one of the most important things bangladesh has done is to work with the unhcr to undertake a registration of those arriving. i spoke with dcm from bangladesh yesterday. he told me 230,000 have been

registered. >> there's about 600,000 that have fled. >> 603,000 was the last count u. these registrations are important because they provide protection and the basis for subsequent repatriation when conditions permit. they have demonstrated a great deal of patience. there was a meeting today which the home affairs minister is working with them to try to pave the way for eventual returns. >> 603,000, i've heard that's half of the total rohingya population of burma if what i've heard is correct. is that accurate? >> we don't know the exact population because it has not been a census, however, we believe that the 600,000 plus the number in bangladesh, which brings the total to about a million, is more than half of

the rohingya population. >> from the us saaid, could you offer -- your perspective? >> usaid worked closely with prm and agree with ambassador star la's assessment. already an impoverished country. our program is food for efforts in providing much needed food stance, nutrition u and a lot just to give you a sense that the challenges to be able to deliver the food stance some of the work the going towards building roads to actually have enable delivery into this very confined area.

we're looking at that to help reshape affected communities. >> mr. chair, i'm not going to do another question, but i'll likely do other quis to help bangladesh and other things we might do. appreciate your answers. >> thanks for being here. >> thank you for holding this important hearing and to our witnesses for focusing on the apowelling treatment of the rohingya. i'm grateful to all the members of this committee who have taken steps to address this crisis. in july, senator till is and i, co-chair of the human rights caucus held a briefing about the displacement of the rohingya early in this crisis. there's more than 600,000 who fled burma because of the military ease she is corre

contributing by her silence to this violence. on september 17th, one of her fellow noble lawy-- wrote in wh he said quote if your political price to the high es asengs in myanmar is your silence, the price is surely too steep. a country who failed to protect the dignity of its people is not a free country. it is in congress to lead such a country. trz to stand up for actions that protect the roh hinge area. you just answered questions from senator kane about what's happening on the ground in bangladesh. do you foresee them being able

to return to burma and what steps you're taking to protect them upon their return. whether they will get documentation of citizenship or rez din dehnsy and what you believe the long-term plan is in bangladesh and burma for their safety treatment and care while refugees and return to nair nation of origin, burma. >> we must under aural circumstances insist that returns must be the goal and they must be voluntary and that the government of burma must provide for the security of returning refugees. initially, the government of burma said teld not permit funds to go to any stance organization. we insisted those funds would go to humanitarian organizations by

the red cross. that's been permitted. the red cross has limited access, which is important because it also shines a light on what's going on there. in her statement on october 12th, she outlined the goals. that's in the right direction. we need to keep pushing on that. we as an international community have to continue supporting bangladesh to make it possible for those returns to take place. i've worked on returns in other countries including 360,000 camera bode yans to returned to cambodia. this is going to require a lot of work at political level to make it possible, but also requires working with the key institutions that will be able to monitor and that will monitor.

there is a path and we have to just keep pushing down and not give up. >> i'm interested about the role religion has played in this crisis and what continribution usaid might make. i think senator shaheen asked a relevant question. what impact it has on the world response. when there's repeat plitigation in courts and by the president that we need to have a ban on those who might come from our country from majority muslim countries. >> thank you for the important question. part of our work throughout the peace process is focused on this issue of building tolerance, ethnic and religious tolerancto.

we have found groups that are more moderate in their group, but don't have the space to speak out in terms of religious tolerance in terms of cross community efforts. our role is kroet and link them up tolgt. many moderates don't feel safe doing that now. we're out of time, but we're happy to provide more information to you. >> thank you. >> thank you very much. it's a very important hearing. it's an absolute crisis that has broken out. many in, many claim that

soldiers entered into the villages and killed civilians, raped women and girls and burned down the entireville i can't imagineage. medical teams report some people bear gun shot wounds and some women and girls have women and girls consistent with sexual assault. it is clear the military bears responsibility for these crimes. even in perpetrators at lower levels were unknown. burma's commander in chief is responsible for the system attic crimes. why has the administration -- >> we share your concern about abuses and atrocities. there's tho reason to discount

the credible reporting that such abuses have taken place and it's for that reason we've announced measures at the state department on behalf of the administration to pursue account bability and it will apply to all individuals and entities responsible for perpetuating the violence and these abuses. that applies to the armed forces predominantly, but in answer to a previous question or comment from senator cakane, there are other actors. there are the rohingya militants who conducted attacks on august 25th. there are local civilians who have taken actions into their own hands. sometimes in concert with the security forces. sometimes as when i was there a few week aegs in their own hands. that particular helped tlart

that attack. subject to our restrictions for assistance. >> have you imposed a travel ban on general min being able to visit the united states? >> senator, there's an existing travel ban. we will per view any waiver for his able toy travel foth united states or gain from stance from the united states. >> what other steps would we reld that we take in the very near past, we were as a government talking about

enhanced military cooperation with burma, is that was a cig that will being sent to these people. that would have given them assurance they would not have to be concerned about that action. how that has has that been communicated to them? the fact that mi amendment working with other members was successful in having that language struck from the legislation as it was moving through a couple of months ago? what was the ininterpreteratite? >> the reality is that our military to military relationship with burma is not normal and has not been for many, many decades. what we have communicated to the

military in relation to the current crisis is their path is obstructed by their failure to protect local populations. there's a xhund rum here. we have to acknowledge it. the armed forces has been isolated for the better part of half a century. and not exposed international standards, norms and regular laces. there is an argument that they need more exposure to understand how to behave properly, be a professional force focused on national defense and not abusing its own people. unfortunately, that's going to be for another day. under the current circumstances, we are not exploring engagement or enhancing assistance or contact with the military or facilitating travel. >> and you agree? >> absolutely. >> their response is?

>> look, i think part of the problem here is a failure in burma among many stakeholders to recognize what's taken place. massive displacement. failure to protect citizens. and residents of country. that's part of our messaging. their actions create a greater risk fk international terrorism. they think they have a terrorism problem now by virtue of the kind of attacks that took place on august 25th and last year in 016, which created population displacement. that's not a national terrorism problem. the kind of problem that could visit the territory is a real significant challenge they won't be equipped to handle and their exacerbating this risk. >> reminds me of el salvador in

the 80s. even as we were help iing them, they were still indifferent to our views about how that money should be used, so i think this is a big issue we're going to have to really press hard on in terms of their military and how they are using the resources they have. thank you, mr. chairman. >> very much appreciate your testimony. i have a question. i know we have some closing comments here and i want to thank everybody for participating. senator merkel, thank you for the trip you're getting ready to take to the area. this is all very damming to the leadership of burma. each of you have stated that clearly and the questions that have been asked have been na that direction. if she were here, what would she be saying in defense of what has been happening in her own country?

>> senator, i think it's a fair question, but honestly, i can't speak for her. i can relate to you and our conversations with her. secretary tiller son has spoken with her. we have tried to impress upon her the need to take key actions and we have recognize d it is a complicated environment by describing the complexities that doesn't ab solve the government of its responsibility. there are measures the government has taken, which i think she would point to, which we need to support. that's hard to describe in this environment when there's such a crisis underway, that behind the scenes, there's a government that's elected, representing the people and is taking unprecedented actions. a clear departure for auth authoritarian rule. we don't want to behave now in a way that reverts burma back to military rule. that would not be in the interest of the population. what we need to do is encourage

the kind of actions they're taking now to make a better path for the rohingya, but we need other stakeholders in the cou y country to support those actions. primarily, the armed forces and also, i hasten to again point out kakhine state, they need to lower the hate speech and realize they need to share the space. they need benefit from bet e treatment which has been the course of action to date. all international organizations are providie ing assistance to vulnerable populations. and half a dozen other ethnic minorities. i think senator fundamentally, the bottom line is we want to help burma succeed. this is an enormous crisis that threatens the transition. could reverse burma backwards and it's a challenge. we need to see better leadership. >> thank you, senator cardin.

>> i just really wanted to thank the witnesses for their efforts here and for what they're doing in representing our country. i want to make a couple comments. government has a responsibility. understands reasonability to all parties. but when you understand the government responsibility, you have to show leadership and we have not seen that from the burr mease government. number two, let me make this comment. if your village has been burnt dou down it's going to be difficult to see where you're return tog. if you're going to return to a situation where you're going to be in a detention camp, that may not be an acceptable safety issue and perm nancy. so i would just urge us to be very careful. we want to people to be able to return to their communities, but it's not only the ethnic problems, we also have physical problems and safety problems on the return. and lastly, secretary murphy, i

just want to emphasize, i've heard this argument many, many times about we don't want to impose samgss that could hurt the people we're trying to help. that's like chalk on a board for me. i heard that argument ant hurting the jews in the soviet ewan u on. i heard that about the blacks in south africa, that we should engage instead of rather trying to use economic pressure. i heard that about iran. we should engage. we were able to engage iran because we imposed sanctions, so i would just urge us to understand that sanctions are much preferred to using military and in many cases, they have allows us to get the use of our military and that we shouldn't be shy in using america's economic strength. >> it's senator murphy's birthday so i'm allowed to ask one question post. >> two things i'm very concerned

about, one is that in regard to our military contacts with burma, we are hosting folk frs the military in response, transitional security cooperation, advanced security cooperation. we have military officers from burma and i think we have to ask ourselves the question. the military organization ed th burning of nearly 300 villages. often, the villages surrounded by platoon, set fire and then shoot people as they flee. i think we have to think about all the levels we have to pressure the military. they are really in charge. we can talk about the civilian side of burma, but it's the military that runs things, which

is part of the reason that some folks say we should be careful art criticizing her because she doesn't have that much power. a few people just acting ran damly don't, i think use of that term gives cover to the military in a way that's totally unacceptable. >> thank you very much for your testimony and service to the country. wooir going to leave the report open until the close of business thursday. if you could answer them pro promptly, we'd appreciate it. again, we appreciate very much you being here and i know this committee will stay on top of this. we look forward to merkley's

report with when back with that. the meeting is adjourns.

the house approved the 2018 budget resolution which allows

lawmakers to begin work on tax reform. kevin brady released the committee's work schedule. the bill will be introduced on november 1st and the committee will begin the process november 6th with action on the floor expected before the thanksgiving break. on the senate side, the senate finance committee is expected to take action later this fall. we have the budget resolution and associated tax reform language on our website. cspan.org. click on the congress tab. today marks 50 years since -- talk to him about his service, his imprisonment and the legacy of the vietnam war, you can watch at 8:00 p.m. on cspan, online at cspan.org or using the free cspan radio app. cspan, where history unfolds daily. in 1979,