please join the conversation this morning by using the #axos. >> thank you to all of you who are here and welcome our remote audience. welcome our friends from c-span. thank you very much for joining us. thank you the hult foundation, bringing california vibe from my native state. socal, no cal. but we're very happy to have

them and for those of you joining us electronically, the axios events team has pulled off a bipartisan breakfast. we have french toast rolls that have cream cheese with raspberry dipping sauce and somebody was telling i should call it freedom toast. take your pick whether it's french toast or freedom toast. and the overnight oats are layered with straw berries and blue burieea berries just like t home. that's the bipartisan breakfast and we appreciate those who mated it possible. if you hop on axios.com. every story one iphone screen. we kale it smart brevty. j the big idea is to make people smarter faster. about the most important topics

of the time so you can make better decisions and our events are a manifestation of that. today we have a fantastic conversation about what's both practical and what we should be shooting for among the party wars in d.c. and we have a bunch of front line players who are going to take us behind the scenes of that. i'm going to set the stage who has been such a great part of our first nine months who worked on the business side of cnn and -- excuse me worked on the business side of politico and new york times. so has a very unusual perspective. 360 perspective on media trends. does a great media trends news letter. love to welcome our colleague,

with any bigging story you'll find out right away why it matters. and you popped upd a perfect post this morning. you looked at how democrats and republicans communicate differently. >> totally differently. they looked at all the social media posts of members of congress, all the press releases. and republicans tend to go to social media first when they want to communicate with their constituenciys. democrats on the other hand will go to a press release and i called someone last night whose rar veter a veteran hill member and she said one of the things you hear on capitol hill all the time is democrats will go for policy first, republicans will go for message first. it's a totally different way of communica

communicating between the two parties on capitol hill. i think they wouldn't be accepted. the message itself, the policy in itself will be lost. mr mr. how they deliver that message is an after thought. i've talked to folks on capitol hill. this seems to be switching. i think about representative dingal. people taking the social heedia and breaking through. these are new changes and it doesn't necessarily mean that dynamic willby that way forever. >> news letter's a super popular dissemination of media.

my nephew, just graduated. he's 22. how is the way he gets his information from his senator or member different from probably the way the senator is disseminating the information? >> totally different. first of all that senator or member are going to put out a traditional press release. they'll put out things on social media. they'll have one on one groups with lobbying members on capitol hill. but evan might only get one tweet. he's only going to be reached by his member from just one way which is why members have to use so many different communications meths. this is something very different. just a few years ago members put out a press release and that's it. that's why you're seeing so many

folks beefing up social media. >> what can washington and that can include communicators of advocacy groups, senators, members, media organization. include foundations. what can washington and public policy communicators learn and what should we know about snapchat. >> snapchat's a very visual and powerful medium. if you follow along you'll notice they're constantly calling and are ebranding themself a camera company. they want to make sure every message is a big, bright beautiful picture in media. >> but that is how we see the world, right? >> totally. and i think snapchat is tapping into that in a way other social mediums did. twitter didn't let you attach pictures without going against

your character count. >> now you studied political communication at george washington university. how is political communication changed even since you, who are editor -- even since you graduated from gwu has changed? >> i think the biggest change is people on capitol hill and their surrounding power brokers are really engaged in social media. he wasn't prolific about it and now when we talk to some of our advertising partners, our sou e sources on the hill and washington, they'll tell you you have to engage with cap trrl hill members and social. especially since the president has taken to twitter on an almost daily basis. >> does the president tweet?

people can tell right away whether it's the official or the flak. >> ib thing they can tell. with psychological studies about younger kids is they crave authenticity and this is why youtube stars, they're not celebrities youy ies you've hea ever. they're young up andcomers who speak directly to the camera. i'd say that's a huge difference in communications style is you can tell when a member is putting a lichk and saying i voted for x, y, and, z verses if they come back with a quip and do something really sharp. >> so as our ceo would say blow my mind. what's something coming up? don't give it away but what's

something we should be watching about what actually gets done whether it's a pr firm or a digital firm and for so long people relied on major firms but now these smaller, nimble groups who have different expertise in campaign communications are starting to pop up and be leveraged by some of the biggest agencies in the world and someof those are right here in d.c. it's a great opportunity for our city, for ex-political staffers trying to get inhad to the agency world. that's what i have my eye on is how d.c. is changing the media world. i like to be hopeful and i would

say media always shines transparency, usually on things people should know about and tells them. >> and sarah fisher, when people always ask a fun fact. i have a fun fact about you. sarah fisher, how many email contacts do you have? >> oh, i have a lot of email contacts. they're not all in my contacts list. many are in excel spread sheets. 10s of thousands. >> sarah fisher, thank you for your great coverage. >> thank you. >> thank you very much, sarah fisher and welcome our c-span viewers and those of you joining us online. please join the convrs aersatio with axios and nou it's my honor to welcome to the stage a congressman we've been talking back stage a lot about what's

possible in washington, how to make progress across the aisle, congressman carlos. welcome back. thank you for being here. so as we were back stage you said you -- >> referring high school basketball and the parents were the worst. the kids were okay. but it built a lot of character and taught me that he always got to try to make the right call. you're going to get heckled. you can walk quietly out of the gym. that's what politics is like. and the referees want the game to be all about them these days and it's not about us. it should be about the american people like it's about the

players. >> you're an official millennial. you're 37. >> some as a an old gen xor, and kind of in between, like bipartisanship i guess. >> but you have been reaching out not only across the aisle but across generations. what is it like to be youngish, younger on capitol hill. >> i think we bring a different perspective. i think weir rar little more sober about politics. so i tell young people all it time i really think that it's

going to take new generations in the united states to have the political renaissance i think we sorely desperately need in this country, bring a more sober, thought f thoughtf thoughtful conciliatory. >> that's three strikes for the current congress. of those what would be your -- of those, what would you be most hopeful about actually making a change? >> so i think there's some issue s out there that cry out for obvious solutions. we've been debating immigration in this country. first dream act was filed in 2001. we're still talking about dreamers. broader immigration reform in 2005/2006. nothing has happened. and the solution, at least to

me, are fairly obvious and one of the things i'm optimistic about this congress, especially end of the year is that we may have the first meaningful, significant immigration compromise since nikara legislation in 1998. >> this would extend the dreamer fix by the owned of the year? >> that's our hope. and that's accompany would reasonable border security measures. a lot of drug activity at the border and most americans want to stop that. when you start talking about a wall, that's where people start to get divided. but i don't think anyone actually believes we're going to build a 2,000 mile wall but we should do everything we can to have reasonable, sensible border security. >> don't tell the president.

what is your sense of how much what he says is for effect and how much of it he really thinks, for instance with the wall. what do you think he would settle for or ultimately deliver? >> i think and i don't know him well. i've only interacted with him a couple times but i think and you look back at his life and career in business, he's a very pr pragmatic person. i think he'll take almost any reasonable, compromise. i tell people i'm not obsess would the president. those are those for him and against him that are obsessed with him. their day revolves round what the president says and does. i just can't do that. i don't think that's healthy about anyone and by the way i have a wife and kids. i think about them all day but

my whole day doesn't revolve around them either. that's not healthy. i don't let myself be defined by this president, just like i didn't to the last president. people ask me all the time how do you deal with donald trump? the same way i dealt with barack obama. when i agree, i'll get behind their ideas. if i think their ideas are bad, i'll oppose them and that's what every member of congress should do. this is about they're from my party, i have to agree every time. this is about institutions and the balance of power and i think that's our constitutional duty to work with the executive when they're working on something worth while and oppose him when they're not. >> what's practical as far as bipartisan action or action period and what's aspirational.

talk about what we should shoot for and what is realistic. >> bipartisanship is not an end, it's a means to achieving a good lasting policy. so i'm part of the problem solvers caucus and you'll have josh here in a few minutes. we work very closely together but this dialogue that we're having it's all wonderful. it's important because you can't have results without good relationships and but we're hoping to play a role in an immigration compromise. obviously there has to be a spending compromise. that will happen at the leadership level. there should be room for bipartisanship there, the tax reform. so the idea is that -- and i

think our framers obviously, given the way they developed the constitution, the idea sfr people to come together, have rigorous debate and settle on something where they can all agree knowing not everyone is going to get everything they want. so congress can be conditioned into this kind of behavior and we can crowd out the forces that try to prevent that compromise for financial gain or political gain. divide the country and make a profit. >> who are you talking about when you say making a profit? >> there are a lot of interest groups out there on both sides and their business model is we're going to make a lot of people angry, paranoid, scared

and we're going to ask them for contributions. send $10 today to help me stop x from destroying your life and since there's a lot of economic insecurity in our country, people are susceptible to that. and in my view tax reform is one of the biggest things we can do for this country. because greater growth is going to make people more confident. they're going to be less prone to blame trade deals for some of our challenges in this country and people are going to feel like they can thrive. >> what are the chances of getting democratic votes in the house for tax reform? >> i think they're pretty good. a lot of our democratic colleagues are fixated on the 1%, the top 1%, which i understand we want a fair tax system. but i also understand and it's a statistical fact that we have

one of the most progressive tax systems in the world. the wealthy pay a lot to fund all of our government programs. i think we sld tax relief for all americans. but republicans are going to put in a fourth bracket. there's a good chance that there's a 39.6% bracket that exists today and i think if we do that, that's going to help a lot of our democratic colleagues consider supporting tax reform package that lowers the tax burden on at least most americans and leads to greater growth. >> you're a republican in south florida. depending on the issue that can be enemy territory. how have you navigated that? >> by being a good referee. look, people in my district, for example on a lot of foreign policy issues are more conservative leaning. they believe in a hawkish activist american foreign

pallacies on issues of education, strong supporters of public education. i came from the schoolboard. i am too. so i really try to do what's best for my district and that's why sometimes i'm in agreement with the leaders in the house on the republican side and sometimes i'm not. >> and do they get it or do they punish you? >> i think on the democratic side this might be more the case but on the republican side there's almost not enough accountability. i think we have the opposite problem where every member is really kind of expected to act as an independent contractor for their district and you know that's caused us some challenges because we've struggled at times to get our majority to pass certain bills. >> so can you see your generation providing stronger leadership? >> i think our leadership is a

product of our conference. i don't think our leaders are weak. i think our leaders lead a vaer diverse group of people who are very strong minded about their ideas. some of who are not prone to compromise. so i do think that as younger members come in and i see this in our conference and i think in the democratic conference as well, it will be easy for our leaders to be effective because we just bring a different approach, attitude, tone, demeanor to the work. >> congressman back stage, you strieed the overnight oats. how were they? >> they were very good. >> we were talking about two farktz most important in working across the aisle. you said first personal discipline. >> yeah. you have to really fight the instinct to fall into the roles.

i mean everyone knows what the roles are here, right? if yur republican, you have to kind of ignore, for example an issue like climate change. now i don't do that, number one because i understand the science, number two because i represent a district where most people live near sea level and near the sea. so it's a local issue for us. but that's the key. don't fall. it's easy. it's expected of you to fall into these roles, into these silos and you have to fight that and on every issue say what's the right thing to do? what makes sense? and so yes, it requires discipline in that sense where you have to fight the inertia that is so strong in our politics. >> your second one, you have a counterintuitive take on risk taking. >> yeah.

so a lot of people, especially i think people who cover politics view bipartisan conduct or compromise as something done by those seeking political cover or who are trying to play it safe. it is the opposite in most cases today in our country. partisanship is what's expected offia, it's what's safe. it's what republicans and d democrats do. democratic members oppose the republican president, republican members oppose the democratic president. that's what members do. so i think to break that takes more effort. i don't think anything we do on the hill is curages. people fighting for our country, they're curages but it takes effort. it takes introspection and self

reflection to break those habits and say no, i'm going to work with someone who i'm told i'm not supposed to work with because it's the right thing to do and because i think we can come up with a good idea. >> you're co chair of the congressional future caucus focussed on millennials. what is the biggest hope you have for millennials changing the tone or are you doing some of your own things to make things worse up there? >> well, i really don't think we're doing anything to make things worse. i think millennials have to stop waiting our turn and we have to start making demands of our leaders in the house on both sides and by the way there are a lot of wonderful millennial younger democrats who are challenging their leaders. we need to do the same and we need tell people we want to do this differently. we want to help restore the trust and confidence in this

government. we want people in our generation, who by the way don't care for the government at all. ask any millennial they think social security or medicare is going to be around for them. they laugh. they don't trust our institutions. we want to make our generation believe. and to do that we have to change how this government works oor doesn't work. that's the approach i bling to this work. it's easy to tweet or send a message over social security and then go back to doing whatever you were doing. get involved. get involved. vote but communicate directly with your representatives and let them know that you want things to change for the better. >> and congressman, as we get the hook here, one of the perks of your job, you met peyton manning in person. >> that was my last sports idle.

growing up in florida, i was a big dan merino fan. and when he retired i was still kind of young and i really felt dan merino's retirement and i saw peyton manning and i went wow that's a new version of dan merino. i went to a peyton manning game almost every game of his career and i think he's a stand up guy and hopefully he'll run for office one day because you look at the way he tries to bring people together, i think that's exactly what we need. >> thank you for joining axios. >> my pleasure. >> thank you very much. thank you, congressman and now we're going to see a quick video from the hewlitt foundation. >> there has been shifts in the political land base. >> our political system is broken. >> they're uncertain, angry and they're fearful. >> we are off track.

>> the national institute for civil discourse has focussed specifically on the issue of how can we once again create the safe space for republicans and democrats to come together to actually deal with each other's people? basically democracy's a conversation. how do we talk to one another. how do we deal with our conflicts? >> how is this next generation going to govern america? >> that's what the action project is designed to answerf we're seeing a movement of young leaders coming together to bridge the divide. . >> our goal is to transform our democracy. those who have served in the military and americorps programs and the peace core, we've had had over 600 student leaders go through our program this year. >> at the faith and politics inhad stutd we help inspire members of congress to hold on

to the values that drove them to service in the first place and bridge those divides to work together for a better democracy. >> i believe a whole generation of young people want to get involved in poptics. if we do that, we can shift from sinnism is to optimism. >> we believe if 10,000 leaders got involved in our ecosystem, it's a movement that could transform our democracy. >> we have to survive civility and respect not just amongst our leaders but among we, the people. >> thank you very much to the hewlitt foundation and now the next guest lived the dream of probably people in the washington, certainbly people in our audience. he was one of the youngest white house speech writers in history and then came back to get elected and become a congressman

from his native new jersey after his summers on the jersey shore and his official bio points out key jersey fact that is first bruce springsteen concert was in the meadowlands. we're honored to welcome to the stage, congressman scott hiemer. so you're co chair of the problem solver's caucus. how's that geing for you? >> it's actually going okay. >> oh, come on. >> we're off to 23 democrats and 23 republicans in the caucus and we get together every single week in washington. we're both in the big and tall caucus. so we have lot going also. but he did not show up. you should have given him grief. we have a bipartisan workout

this morning and he did not show up. he blamed you. >> so we know what a bipartisan breakfast is. what's a bipartisan workout? >> half democrats, half republicans and every morning we workout. it's called cross fit from a guy in oklahoma. he was an mma fighter so these are pretty tough workouts. >> what would you say the difference between endurance in democrats and republican snz. >> that's a good question. i haven't got that one. we're both tough. we bringing the towels and feel badly when the republicans are having a tough time. but the caucus, we did the own -- to answer your question earlier. our caucus did the only bipartisan framework on health care so far. so this summerer we got together after they voted no late night

and we've been working for weeks. a group of 40 of us around the clock, trying to get to a yes proposal on a piece of health care to get these csr payments done to be sure we could get premiums down as it was getting attacked. and so that framework, we spent the rest of the summer talking to patty murray and a bipartisan group of governors and i think there's an opportunity here. i don't think this story is over on saving this piece of health care and trying to get premiums down. >> is it over for this year? >> no, i think -- we keep rolling everything into december but i think this could be part of a grand bargain and there's plenty of conversation going on. you see alexander murray keeps coming up in the senate. i thinking the congressional office scored it skb said it would be a gain for the country.

i'm actually optimistic that's an area where we can get something done. we have to. we can't just throw all these people offer health care and have premiums go up 20 or more percent in the next year. you were listening to your friend. what's the least true thing that he said? >> i'm not answering that question. >> i'll give you a hint. what is the likelihood that house democrats will vote for tax cuts? >> i think there's a real opportunity for -- a lot of us want to get there. the question is, for me and many people this is a big regional break down. for those of us in states where we have higher property taxes and higher state taxes, the state -- eliminate the state tax deduction is an enormous problem. >> you were involved in a

meeting on this last night. >> well, ib was not in the meeting. they had a meeting with republicans last night. that's my understanding. >> ladies and gentlemen, please take your -- >> we've got our seats. thank you. >> i was expecting a grand entrance of somebody. who's out there? you've got people like peter king and others, including leonard lance and we're knowing to do an event later this morning about a fact that a lot of the states pay in much more federal taxes than we get back to our state. in my district we get back every 33 cents -- and others getting $4 for every dollar they're sending in and by actually eliminating this deduction is a huge problem.

this is a very regional issue, not necessarily partisan. >> based on the intell, what is the likelihood you wind up being able to vote on tax cuts? >> if they get rid of this state level tax deduction, the likelihood goes up a lot. >> he said he could see getting democratic votes. >> ultimately if they actually fix this. you have access to everything. but none of us have actually seen the plan. the democrats, we haven't seen the full details. so it's hard to answer that question until you see all the details and we should have this conversation next thursday. >> one of your traditions back home in new jersey is joe with josh, right? >> cup of joe with josh, right. >> what are you learning that washington should pay attention to? >> so jersey's all about diners. town to town, diner to diner. and what i'm learning from

people is they really want us to sit together -- i hear this all the time. that even if people are on opposite sides they want us to try and find a way to yes, in d instead of just screaming at each other. there are plenty -- we get together and try to figure out on health care, tax reform, infrastructure, hopefully on d.a.c.a., we can find a way forward. and i don't care what people's party are, that's what i hear the most. >> so becauoswell of the urban record is back there. >> hey, herb. >> we were chatting before and herb said a problem for you back home is that you are well known for working across the aisle and a bunch of the democrats who elected you actually don't like th that. >> herb, have you been to the

diners? >> listen, there's always going to be people in the far left and far right who believe we should ubstruct unless we get 100% of something. i started my career working with president clinton. he taught us to move with republicans and democrats to move forward and get a yes. we have got roads, a 1/3 of the bridges in new jersey considered unsafe, and eighth worst roads in the country in my district. you can't keep punting and if you insist on getting everything you want all the time you're never going to succeed. and i think governing is figuring out a way to yes. >> in our virtual audience and you had had a formative experience, involving senator frank lottaut otte eten berks -

smoking on airplanes. what can a young person learn? >> i did not smoke on the airplane. he took on smoking in the airplanes. >> for our guys it's hard to believe it existed. >> right. but people smoked on an airplane and then it was in a section of the airplane and you were in a capsule smoking in the airplane. it was considered impossible. one of the third rails, which given the lobbies on the other side. it was one of those moments you saw you can take on an issue, it's tough and you can overcome it. he brought private sector and public sector experience to the table and was not afraid of a fight. so that really will push you in a direction. >> and on capitol hill, what is the biggest push back or resistance you've gotten to work with other younger members, republicans, to break out of the boxes that the party seems to

have retreated to? >> i would say given this wasn't exactly a moment in history in the brochure when i ran, what i've seen the most is during orientati orientation, you're all together across party lines and you go to kennedy's school and they have all these different training seminars on processing of congress and the first day reflexively people snap to their sides and unless you actually make the effort, you could spend time with people from your own party because you caucus together. even though the house rc representatives you can sit anywhere you want and people sit on their respective siteds. you have to actually make an effort to spend time together. and believe me when you go against the grain, members of your party aren't thrilled with you and leadership's not thrill would you. i think i heard carlos say it was discipline.

i think it's discipline and sdwru not be afraid to do what you think at the end of the day is best for your constituents. even if it's going to ruffle some feathers. so i always go to the other side and talk to people about it and by building those relationships, when you want to work on a piece of legislation in a bipartisan way, then you have people you trust. on our caucus, part of the rules of the caucus is you can't campaign or write a check against anybody else in the caucus. because how do you actually get to a compromise on an issue if they think you want to kill them? so it really ruins the spirit. and when we get to 75% of our caucus, agreeing on a point of view, we vote as a block together which hopefully will bring the middle in and fight the extremes.

that means you have to not omways get what you want individually, but it's for the effort. if you guys are disciplined, if you do it every day, you start using those muscles and i think that's what we need more of in congress. >> you freremember for a couple years you were encouraged to bring someone of the opposite party. do any of the caucuses do that? >> you have to -- our caucus it's one on one, noah's arc. democrat and republican have to come in together. so a lot of the caucuses still had had that system where you have to bridge along a republican. >> you were early on the equifax issue. what did we learn from the vote the other night when vice president pence broke the tie? >> here's what i learned yesterday that we had had hearings -- >> real quick to bring our guests up to speed on the issue.

>> sure. there was 150 million or so people whose data was breached from equifax which is one of the last credit check agencies. there's three big ones and many of you probably received notices at home or went to website and you can then find out if your data was compromised. the problem was in many insta e instances, the computers were down, people didn't apser the phones. we're back logged for weeks. you'll hear back from us in weeks. i found that offensive. people are getting a home, a car, a loan. so we brought equifax before the financial services committee. this is the second time we did, asked them to come up to the hill. the ceo refused to come to testify, which i find beyond offensive, given how many people's credit was compromised.

>> what's the take away? >> we're going to have to get legislation done on this on the house side so -- there has to be rules in place on how to respond when you have a breach. >> aspirational, verses practical. what do you believe could get to the president's desk? >> on this? >> a clear code of conduct that if there's a breach how much time you have to respond. that's a bipartisan will on this one. people are very frusherated and their constituents are extremely angry about this. we hear about it all the time and i know a lot of republicans do too. >> as one of the younger members of congress, what are you going to do to get younger leaders? >> i spent a lot of time on the phone talking to members situational to me, moderate,

willing to work across the aisle and what happens, as you might imagine, lot of those seats tend to be tougher seats to bepick up and explaining to them what it takes and how to get it done and what it's like when you're here. they leave that out of the manual. they talked about the running but what it's like to be here and i think it's important for people to understand. >> and what about young leadership at your top? >> i think this is a very big issue on our side. and you want to make sure when we get younger people in and we encourage them to run, which we're doing more of, there's an incredible amount of people rupping the cycle. and i've met a breath of inn en jettic people. not being frustrated after a term or two. you want to be able that you're able to move up in leadership.

>> congressman, you're somebody who really knew washington. as we say goodbye here, what was the biggest surprise, a perk or a chore of being an actual member? >> this is obviously a perk here. the biggest benefit is that -- and i know even though i've been here a long time. walking on the house floor representing people, it's a pretty -- >> about what people want from you or give you? >> the surprise is how little time you actually have to do every task. like the amount of activity to get done to read the piece of legislation. people don't realize this you don't get bills months out, you get them the day before or if you're lucky a few days before or a week before. and you have to read it, often

you're walking on the floor and they've changed something and they hand it to you and you're in the back with your staff off the floor reading it fast and trying to make sure you don't vote the wrong way. i find that to be shocking and how many things you need to get done in a day. the schedule is crazy and to do the job right. i think -- i really believe there's a way to do this job and if you wanted to do things like join the caucus, my staff always says to me that's extra-credit becauses the rr so much you have to get done and the time you spend in a room. when we as members dig in, when we meth two weeks ago on immigration reform, it said 9:00 at night. and you work until 1:00 in the morning. we were in mcsally's office with whiteboards. they'd be happy to see this.

there were 20 of us crammed in the office with no staff, just members of congress with two white bords up, debating i think what we were working on health care reform that night, debating what we could get to where and i thought we should take pictures of this and send it out because if people saw this, they'd feel a lot better. i know i felt a lot better seeing on cable news and we need more of that and that's what y78 rr focussed on is bringing more of that. >> was there pizza? >> tacos and beer. >> those didn't make the pictures. >> maybe that's why we didn't take the pictures. >> what are the chances in january 2019 you're in the majority? >> i'll put it over 50% we're in the majority. >> thank you and good luck with that problem solving. appreciate you. >> thank you, guys. >> thank you very much

congressman. we're going to see a quick youtube and we'll be right back with katy hunt of nbc news. >> the american public see as lot of dysfunction and partisanship in the american congress. >> many factors with more partisanship. >> congress isn't working together, then we're not working together as a nation. >> the congressional management foundation's mission is to build trust and efktiveness in congress. we try to improve their operations, especially as it relates to interacting with citizens and helping citizens have a better understanding and communication with the congress. >> understanding this isn't just ideas or parties, that there's something underneath that helps us understand how to address political polarization. the joint center does research. we commission political scientists to study the overlap between racial polarization and

political polarization. >> offers an insentsive to reach out and find is there something there i might support that member might support something i think is very important to my constitue constituents. i think we're movering in the right direction. >> one thing is members of congress don't take part in the give and take. we want to discuss the way it was originally intended to work as to try to improve understanding. with improved understand ing the long run comes better policy. >> the voters right now want to see progress and see congress enact legislation, how disfunctional it is. >> it's not a situation where things get better over time and it's inevitable. we have real work to do.

>> thank you very much for that message. our next guest one of the best known bipartisan players in washington, any building, any branch of government, grew up in the cold country of west virginia, learned politics from -- learned politics from papa joe and mama k. it's an honor to welcome to axios, senator joe man chen. what would papa k. say what's going on in washington. >> when i was young i would say, papa, what's the difference between democrat and republican? he said not whole lot. you put a pile of money on the table, they will both spend it all but the republicans will feel bad about it. that's my political career and started me off. >> what did mama k. teach you

about navigating life and people? >> she was a one woman social phenomena. back in those days in the '50s you didn't have social nets. it was mama k. we lived by the tracks and a fancy neighborhoody the buffalo crick on one side and the train tracks on the other side. she'd be like a mother hen gathering everybody up when she heard the train whistle. a norman rockwell type setting, all about the family. she took in everybody. she made all of us kids whitewash the basement. have a nice place, bedroom for people to stay when they didn't have place to stay. anybody that hop off the train. wheelbarrow willie and peg leg peggy. these were real characters, they always needed a place to stay. they'd jump off the train and she'd feed them. they all had good talent, paint and carpentry work.

we'd lose them. i come home from school, where is peg leg peggy? she says they're back on the toot again. the toot was when they were on the bottle. she'd lose them about six weeks and they would. any young girl who became pregnant out of wedlock and parents disown them, mama k would take them in and we had all these girls saying there. you could watch her make her magic, in two or three weeks invite the mother to have lunch with her and the daughter be there and before you know it they'd be going home together. i watched all that. i lived all that. >> when you talk about the toot, the modern version of that today at 2:00, the president is giving a speech on the opioid crisis, something that hit coal country hard and virginia and maine and the bangor country where i spend a lot of time.

is the united states government doing enough. no. we're just finding out our agencies have hurt us. and all the different things we've gone through. i don't know if that was intentional or not. you cannot send 9 million opioid pills to a small county and say someone is on top of this. it's a business model. >> how did it sneak up on us. i feel like in the bubbles, the problem was evident for a lot longer before people realized, and "the new yorker" out this week, the numbers put it with the aids crisis. >> this is a -- this would be a pandemic in any other realm, definitely an epidemic. we lost 200,000 americans. that's more than any war since

world war ii. we would have been rallying the troops. if we said, okay, we have to get the national institutes of health involved and cdc, all hands on deck. we haven't done that. first, how it got started, you look back at the 80s veterans administration trying to make sure they're taking care of the returning veterans and returning soldiers, the pain threshold became the fifth element of wellness. they said, what's your pain threshold. they said, here come a company called perdue farmna apharma ane an oxycontin drug, no addiction. the rest is history. you have the fda. here is the government agency saying we have a product and we approve this product, it does what it's supposed to do. you say a safe product. the dea is allowing it to be distributed. and then your doctor the next

trusted person next to your family member saying this will help you. they legitimatized it. federal government, most trusted person next to your family. legitimatized. and it became a run away train. vicadin and loritab, it was going out more than m&ms. >> you talk to this president more than most democrats, what degree do you think he gets it or that the white house needs to go further? >> first of all we need a secretary of dhhs and a drug czar with a personal relationship. someone with the experience. >> who would you suggest? >> the gentleman i would suggest came out of the dea they railroaded out. >> this is the whistle-blower. say his name again. >> i will try to pronounce his name. i know his first name, joe.

[ laughter ] >> now, that's a smart politician. senator manchin, last month you were part of a group of red state democrats who met with the president to discuss tax reform. what was that like? >> he was very engaging. with the president i've had quite a few conversations and been in his presence. we have a good relationship back and forth and agree to disagree. we jost a little bit, but the way it should be. i can only tell you this. when i'm in with the president i truly have a feeling he's much more comfortable trying to do a bipartisan deal than trying to hold the partisan line. that's not a comfort level. he'll do it i guess because he's expected to be a republican president but you can just tell the body language and his tone of voice is much more comfortable trying to find that deal, a pathway. >> a lot of people will not believe that. talk that through a little more. >> i'm trying to find out which

one's my glass here, mike. okay. i can only give you my experience. we joust back and forth and one time we were talking he said, joe, if i put the push on you, you'd have probably buckled in and voted for my healthcare. >> put the push, that sounds like you, not him. >> west virginia talk, i don't know if it's new york. it's full throttle. when the person says, i need you, i need you. i said, mr. president all due respect, no, you couldn't have. i know there's a fix, a balance, we can find the middle. work with us. be the mr. fixit president. you came through this process in an unorthodox way, not from the traditional republican. you don't have to tow that line. find that middle.

that's what people want. i'm hoping that will happen. >> how did he react to that advice? >> we both laughed. i said, no, you wouldn't. i said, right now we need to find the middle ground and right now we think we can find the middle ground, we have 24 sponsors. when's the last time you've seen a major piece of legislation with 12 ds and 12 rs on it. doesn't happen that often. we know the president has to embrace this and be convinced and be shown the two year transition with the csrs, which is stabilization, that would happen no matter what you did, you did the skinny bill, the graham cassidy bill, no matter what you did, you had to stabilize the market to do the transition. if we can get that and move forward we will do a lot better. >> a good tweet for axios 360. the 360 whistle-blower, have you

mentioned that to the president or is this your -- >> this is my audience. i will mention it today to him. >> you will see him today? >> yeah. >> you will be at the opioid event. >> i think all 100 senators should go. this is not a democrat or republican problem. >> what are you going to say to him about the drug zar? >> the drug czar has to have medical expertise and you can find a lot of scientists and doctors that has a child or son or someone affected their lives, very passionate. can't be swayed, as soon as i do this i will have a better job waiting for me here. i have a piece of legislation so it's not a revolving door. there shouldn't be anybody who overseas and investigates and prosecutes. that has a resolving door, they can investigate one day and go to work for them the next. that is wrong.

>> you were the chairman of the national governor's association. what can washington learn from the states about actually getting things done? >> those were the good old days. >> what do you mean? >> those were the good old days. what i mean by that, unless i looked and did a little bio-on the governors, there's only 50 of us, i was two terms, i couldn't tell you if they were d or not. we all thhad the same problems, infrastructure, medicaid problems, we all had spnts a responsibilities and we had a balanced budget amendment. had to live within our confines. the first thing they do is give you the revenue estimates. this is what you have to work on. you can make all the wish lists and political speeches you want to but you can only do so much. that type of constraint doesn't happen in washington, you have a

printing press. we'll make more promises and go further in debt and don't worry about that. we didn't have that luxury, thank god. this country has to get back to the fiscal responsibility all of us are responsible for. >> speaking of going further in debt what is the likelihood there are senate democrats that will vote for president trump's tax cuts? >> i have to be honest with you. i don't think this is his tax policy, what you're seeing. they put a template out. he and i were talking, he said, joe, this isn't going to be a tax cut for the rich, people like me. i said, mr. president, that's a great place to start. >> when did he say that to you? >> that was the dinner. eight of us. three democrats, five republicans, a lovely dinner. we had another dinner i was invited to dinner at jared and ivanka's home. a beautiful venue. >> which dinner was fancier? >> the dinner that i got the

most -- they were asking me on one of the shows, i said we were having a nice dinner, sitting there at the end of the day, they brought me an apple strudel an looked like a beautiful egg. i'm thinking, i know i'm from farmington a little coal mining town, i've never seen an egg served with a strudel. i'm thinking, what do i do with this? i said, well, when in rome, go for it. i went -- it was ice cream. it was called a quinell, a roll the ice cream. i go back to my office and made a little bit of a fool of myself not knowing i had ice cream in the shape of an egg. when's the last time somebody asked me my governor friend from why combing called me. what's wrong with you people? can't you tell the difference between an egg an ice cream? i said, yeah, when was the last

time you saw ice cream that looked like an egg. they showed me on a youtube thing. it went completely crazy. they were both very eloquent and good conversations. i just said, when you have mike mullen, who used to be -- mike was the joint chief of staff, you have the person who's supposed to know what's going on around the world. general, what's this greatest threat the united states faces? we had the war going in iraq and middle east and syria was firing up and all the things going crazy around the world, i'm thinking i will find out where the hot spot is. he never missed a beat or skipped a beat or paused. he said the greatest debt the united states of america face is the debt of this nation. if we let it continue it will be the greatest debt we face as a super power of the world. that was very sobering to me.

i always felt that. papa joe, my grandfather, said, joe, uncontrolled or unmanaged debt will make cowards out of your decisions. think about it, we all hit a hard time, the old saying rob peter to save paul, if you don't change your ways, peter will rob paul and leave you. they wanted me to vote on a piece of legislation. i've been very clear, i cannot in good conscience say you want now to use dynamic scoring knowing we will start out if you give me the static score, the static score shows the changes you want to make shows we will be 1$1.5 trillion in the hole. that's static, exactly what we know. static knows this. if we charge 35% for corporate taxes we reduce them to 25, every point we know exactly what that point produces, that's

static. dynamic says this, you went from 35 to 25 but when you stimulate the economy and people have confidence, then it's the same as now you have a return of 38%. does that make sense? that's what they're hoping for. i said, that would be like me knowing i have my payment, my mortgage payment the next day, tomorrow's thursday and i'm walking in tonight, wednesday, into the casino and walk up to the roulette or crap table and say, i will be able to take care of my payment. that's exactly what they're doing. i said, i can't do that. but what we can do is find -- can we be competitive? yes, we can, can we be globally? yes, territorial or simplify them? they can't determine what's middle class. they start saying it's this much of income. i will tell you all of them those watching middle class in

my mind is anybody that gets a paycheck and you have deductions of state and federal taxes that's pretty much working people the working class. the people on the top end of "the food chain do not get paid the same as most of you and i do. once they understand the pass-gains and shelters, it's a whole different ballgame. >> and you start eating ice cream tat look like an egg. >> i can tell i shouldn't have brought that up. can tell this is not the right place to bring that up. 92 senator, as we say good-bye, as things are head what is the likelihood chuck schumer will be majority leader chuck schumer. >> and chuck is a dear friend of mine and one comes from new york and one from farmington, oklahoma. our politics are different, probably are, i'm more centrist, moderate conservative. i'm fiscally conservative and

compassionate. they can shake your hand and look in your eyes and see your soul. i said, chuck, if people like me in the democratic party can't get elected you can't be in the majority. josh is a great friend of mine that was here and a great young man. if i could do two things to change america today and you want to change the whole dynamics of this town. first of all, i go to work everyday in a hostile working environment. what do you mean? i go to work everyday as a democrat, d by my name expected to make phone calls to get money against the rs, no difference, and republicans are expected to do the same thing. i said from day one i'm not going to do that. next of all, they expect you to go into the district or the state that a republican is running, if they're up for re-election, we call them in cycle, just because they're in

cycle, we want a d instead of r, they want an r instead of a d. said if you go that to west virginia everyday and get your fellow worker fired, they will catch you in the parking lot and that's not the way we do things. said, harry, i'm not making phone calls against my republican colleagues, will not campaign against them. i haven't. i will not campaign against a sitting colleague. to change this place we should have rules in the senate and house an ethical violation if you campaign against a sitting colleague, if you raise money and campaign against them. it would change the whole demeanor and dialogue. next, change the way we redistrict. when we redistrict, make it be computer driven. don't let me and a republican sit down and draw our favorite lines. make diversity more homogenous, make us work out of a computer driven model that difference us

more balance rather than someone far to the right. we've driven this process. it's all right to be on the extremes if you are hard core right and hard core left we will find a district for you. does that help? >> it does. >> as we say good-bye i know one of your favorite things about fall is turkey hunting. >> oh, boy. >> how is turkey hunting like being a lawmaker? >> well -- >> or have you got a tip? >> someone will eventually shoot you. >> senator manchin, thank you very much. appreciate it. love the egg thing. did that happen at the white house or at jared's? >> the white house. >> thank you so much. it's my honor to welcome to the stage an nbc news capital correspondent, host of nbc news, kasie hunt. thank you for coming.

been a friend for a long time. thank you for being here. congratulations on casey dc's 7:00 to 9:00 p.m. on msnbc. we will break a little news here. you have an exclusive guest sunday. >> we do, we have senator rand paul on sunday. that will be great and new guests to announce in the next couple of days. >> kasie hunt, you covered the white house, covered capitol hill, you've been on the campaign trail so that's the bermuda triangle of public life. what's the biggest difference in perspective in the two ends of pennsylvania avenue? >> i got my start on capitol hill which i always felt like gave me an advantage in some ways when trying to cover the white house. your challenge as a white house reporter, you're working in an enclosed space around all your competitors but also a lot of your sources who are all working out of the west wing.

to a certain extent a lot of the job is trying to figure out -- get the latest statement they're putting out, try to figure out what's true, not true. clearly in the age of trump things have changed a little bit in that regard. one of the benefits i felt covering capitol hill brought to white house coverage, there's a lot of communication all the time along pennsylvania avenue. one of the things i learned early on, very often you could a track down information via people on capitol hill hearing it before you were even though you were sitting in the west wing and they also provided a different perspective. that was really valuable. they are very different day-to-day as well if you're working on the beaty the white house is simply -- and especially now that i work in television this matters a lot. the white house is a very physically enclosed small base. that presents a unique set of challenges. capitol hill, i love covering

capitol hill because it is one of the most open and accessible environments still. >> you can actually walk up and touch the zoo. >> you can stand outside the house floor while they vote and bug people very easily. house speaker paul ryan gave a lovely speech last night at our annual awards dinner and had jokingly photo shopped a few of us who cover him behind trees and following him around. he was joking about it but that's kind of an opportunity we get to have everyday, that i quite frankly really appreciate. >> you have some viral, very tough questioning of senators out there. how do you know when to keep hammering them and what is your sort of thought bubbles like really hammering somebody? >> one of the things different about -- i came from a different background. mike and i used to work together at "politico" and i worked for the associated press.

television is a different medium, when you're speaking to somebody on camera, you have to think about how you're coming across in addition to listening to what they're saying and respond to that in the moment. my personal rule is i always try to be polite, my unfailing -- everybody approaches this differential. some people are very combative. that's not really how i go about doing my job everyday. there's a difference between being polite and not asking tough questions. i found very often when you ask the tough question in a polite way the answer you receive is remarkably illuminating because you get a chance to see how are they reacting to that opposed to simply putting them on the defensive and winding up with an angry and unpleasant exchange. one of the other things i remember talking to these lawmakers there are a lot of people watching at home have oftentimes very obvious questions about what's going on. sometimes we as journalists forget to ask the most basic

question available oftentimes you would be surprised how many times people take notice that ends up getting a lot of attention. >> what's an example from home, mama k type question. >> rick perry will probably not be pleased with me asking this question when i interviewed him leaving the governor of texas, i said, are you smart enough to be the president of the united states. that's the question everybody had after the 2012 campaign, if this guy was going to take another run at the presidency. governor perry, to his great credit treated the question with a small degree of humor and willingness to engage. we still -- i would say i still consider myself to have a good working relationship with him and his team today. to a certain extent, you have to ask those kinds of questions in a very -- i would say at least, going back to what i said previously about being poloit,

there's a way to ask that question that is not confrontational or out of line. that's kind of an extreme example, i guess, i try to bring that spirit to my job everyday now. snow what's a time it didn't work or you didn't get the answer? >> it didn't work. when it doesn't work it's more something there's not a noteworthy moment necessarily. for the most part, i'm not sure i've ever had somebody, you know, take a question that i asked and react to it in a negative way. i think again for the most part i work hard to have cordial relationships with people because i do believe that, you know, you can have a respectful working relationship with politics or that we should strive to do that without giving up any journalistic integrity or failing the people we're serving. i believe you can hold feel

account and still be a nice person is i guess what i'm trying to say. >> kasie hunt, the title of our event today is party war, is progress still possible. in the time you've been covering public life, from the different aspects, we talked about the campaign trail, in the speaker's lobby for nbc news, what would you say has changed about the pace and substance of or politics? >> quite a bit has changed. i think the pace is something i think also affects the substance. i think when you talk to members of cog many of whom i've covered for 10 plus years, there's obviously been a lot of new faces as well. they will frequently in private conversations, cite the use of twitter and the speed at which information travels as a reason why they feel kind of closed in.

they don't have an option to work with each other because the speed and quite frankly the viciousness of social media very quickly, they can put something out. it used to be in the older day, this still happens from time-to-time, there would be what we call a trial balloon in the "new york times" where somebody who is writing the tax bill on the ways and means committee calls a reporter covering the budget we're thinking about doing this, here's the document, the "new york times" start that story. it sort of happened with the 401(k)s in the last 48 hours. it goes out, members across the hill read it and a reaction and take phone calls from constituents or others, now the way -- that can go out in the morning at 10:00, by 10:30 the breitbart news has, you know, written seven headlines, the

office is receiving calls of people screaming obscenities on the other line. there's much less opportunity, i would say, for the bipartisan back and forth and deal making to kind of work itself out over time without people coming under enormous and negative and difficult to deal with political pressure. that puts a lot of patricressur the bipartisan process and forces more pressure behind closed doors. there's a real sense among lawmakers they can't let anything get out until they're ready to do the whole thing because this exact effect would play out. sue it with the healthcare bill and we're about to see it with the tax bill although they are trying to do things differently. there's a real tension there between, yes, people have easier access to foregoing on in theory. in reality it makes it harder both for politicians to attempt to work with the other side and

also for us to spend time covering the substance of the issue. we spend a lot of time especially -- i would argue, i don't think any of us have experienced anything like what we've experienced the last nine months in terms of the speed with which the story is changing. that's something we are all learning how to manage in realtime. >> kasie hunt, pent ultimate question. remarkable speeches remarks over the past weeks by former president george w. bush and senator flake and others, to what degree do those remarks reflect what you're hearing behind the scenes from other members and senators? >> i think they are very -- there's not a long list of people necessarily willing to say those things in public. the list of people saying them in private is much longer, i think. there is a very real -- look, the republican party has been

for years the conservative party that has meant things about how they hold positions on family or historically cultural issues but it also has meant a lot of them usually have put a lot of value on being polite. i think there are a lot of people that think president trump doesn't meet that standard. now, the challenge is for a lot of them is that this is at the end of the day driven by voters. voters are telling them when they go home, they're not supporting the president enough in many cases. there are others, i would argue that jeff flake is in this category, there is a segment of the republican party that is based, say, in the suburbs. those politics have a much different challenge as republicans because they're potentially in danger of losing their seats to democrats and they have a different challenge than people say going back home to iowa. the reality is voters are

looking more for the approach president trump is bringing to the table right now than the way things have traditionally been done here. >> that isn't really what the coverage has been like in the "new york times," despite those stories high profile speeches that should get the coverage that they did, in the end, at least so far, it does look like trump's party both in the house and senate, largely because of what you're saying back home. you agree with that big idea? >> i do, actually. i think that it really is splitting the republican party apart for this reason, there is a smaller group of republicans who were elected in a different time or areas where -- you think about california republicans, for example, this is a little bit antidotal, i have spoken to many in that state who are appalled by president trump and who are more likely, i think, to probably vote for a democrat next time around than they are -- that puts a certain set

of pressure on a republican from california. they have to figure out, okay, how do i make this stand or not? these are typically people who they often would prefer to go along with their leadership. with their leadership sticking with the president that puts them in one kind of awkward position and separates them from the rest of the people in their party if you are from a solidly servant state district et cetera, that is not suburban, this is a real cultural divide i think that is playing out and you can see it in the halls of the capitol because those people are coming and saying, hey, every time we fail to do the thing the president says he wants us to do, we get hurt back home. they're more afraid of a primary challenge not necessarily somebody more conservative but more willing to be the kind of candidate that the president was. >> kasie hunt, we always end by newsletter axios a.m., top 10,

the one fun thing for our guest today had a little bit of hunting theme for the fall. you went hunting with a united states senator. >> uh-huh. yes. with ted cruz of texas. >> oh, my. >> it was the annual -- this happens every year, this year donald trump jr. is doing it, steve king the republican from iowa hosts an annual pheasant hunt. he usually hosts the presidential candidate being iowa, one year rick perry went and they did not allow us to go along for that one. when ted cruz did it a year or so later we were allowed to traipse through the fields. ted cruz as i recall didn't bag any pheasants. he does know his way around. he is not somebody who -- you know, he's not necessarily an avid hunter the way some are. paul ryan really knows his way around with that particular activity. i would say it was memorable. >> he didn't bag any reporters either? >> no.

thankfully we call came out of it unscathed. >> thanks. congratulations to kacied.c. thank c-span and the people here for your early mornings and amazing axios event staff that pulled this off and had the cool bipartisan breakfast and thank you, kasie hunt. thank you so much. thank y'all for coming. have a great day. see you on axios.com. ♪ ♪ c-span's "washington journal" live everyday with news and policy issues that impact you. coming up friday morning we're

devoting our program about swale harassment. joining us is miss feldbloom. >> and jackson, of mentors. be sure to watch "washington journal" live at 7:00 to join the discussion. >> sylvia burwell speaks at an inve event hosted by the washington college of law. c-span2. friday, a panel on managing

healthcare and healthcare quality from business and academia for a discussion starting at noon eastern on c-span. this week on q&a. >> they're shoving, jostling. their target was charles murray. i was a little bit behind him. it kind of intensified. it looked like he would fall to the ground. at the time a 74-year-old man. i did what any decent human being would do when you see a 74-year-old man on the verge of falling to the ground. i grabbed him by the arm, to make sure he didn't fall. i was afraid of being -- it was a large -- i don't know how many. i was fearful being separated and left behind. i took his arm and when i did, that's when it turned on me. somebody pulled my hair and body slammed me from the other

direction. >> middle school director allison, speaks about -- middlebury professor allison stanger. on c-span's q&a. next, energy department officials testify about protecting the energy sector from cybersecurity threats attacks here and abroad. looking at ways federal research facilities and private concerns can help companies operating the electrical grid, pipeline system and infrastructure. this hearing is an hour and 35 minutes.