a provision of the u.s. constitution and submit a video showing why it's important. it's open to all video and high school students grades 6th through 12th. $100,000 of cash prizes will be awarded. $5,000 grand prize will go to the team with the best video. get details on our website at studentcam.org. american history tv is looking back 50 years to the vietnam war. this year, the national archives in washington, d.c. opened its first ever exhibit on the war and has three huey helicopters on display outside. we talked to pilots who flew them in vietnam about their experience. this is about an hour and ten minutes. >> now i ask all vietnam veterans or any veterans who served during the vietnam era,

which is november 1, 1955 to may 15, 1975 to stand and be recognized. veterans as you exit the theater after today's program, national archives staff and volunteers will present each of you with the vietnam veteran lapel pin. on the back is embossed a grateful nation thanks and honors you. united states vietnam war commemoration is a national initiative and the lapel pin is the nation's lasting thanks. the national archives billing is always an impressive site, but this week we are attracting a bit more attention thanks to the north carolina vietnam

helicopter pilot's association who are the custodians of those aircraft. we can see and learn about three original vietnam war helicopters. t this display is presented in part by the national archives foundation through the generous support of bell helicopter. now you'll hear from general richard a. cody, required of united states army. he graduated from west point in 1972. he's a master army aviator, over 19 helicopter and has over 5,000 hours of flight time. during his 36 plus year of service, he served in six of the army's combat divisions. during operation desert storm, cody let task force norm di, a flight of eight apatchy

helicopters into to iraq and destr destroyed them prior to the start of campaign. cody is currently the senior vice president, the chairman of the borld for homes of our troops, board trustee of the intrepid fallen heroes fund, trustee of the bob hope foundation and founder and lead pilot for operation flying heroes an organization that provides flights for our iraq and afghan wounded warriors. general cody received the united states military academy distinguished graduate award and george mar chal pastor award. ladies and gentlemen, please welcome general richard a. cody.

>> thank you, everybody. for our vietnam veterans and their families, you know, sometimes saying thank you for your service isn't enough, and i want to tell you what i really want to do is say thank you for inspiring a young 16-year-old from vermont vermont back in 1966, because i got to watch your vietnam helicopter pilots, daring on tv, and that inspired me to want to become like you, a helicopter pilot, and i was lucky enough to be able to achieve my dream, but more importantly, as soon as i graduated from flight school, it was hundreds of vietnam era warrant officers and colonels who taught me what right looked like. taught me how to be an aviation leader and, quite frankly, i

tell everybody i wouldn't have made general officer had it not been for my vietnam tutors, and so thank you for everything you have done for this great country. i also want to thank you because in 1991, when i came back from the iraq war, it was 3:00 in the morning. i had my squadron from the 101st. we landed in bangor, maine. we were some of the last guys out of iraq war. the first gulf war. we were watching on tv, waiting back at the airport in saudi arabia. we saw all the parades and everybody being welcomed home. my troops said, nobody's going welcome us. we got off the plane so they could refuel it and there was a cordonne of veterans thanking

our hands and g.i..ing myself a welcome home from combat you never got. i'll never forget watching young soldiers exchanging their sandy caps with the bush caps of the vietnam veterans. it touched many in a way you'll never know. our nation is well past that. this series about helicopters and those daring men that flew helicopters and their crews as part of vietnam series is something that all america should know about and we should take time to honor. i'm very, very pleased the archives are doing that. what you all did in vietnam was really transform our army and our way of thinking about warfare in terms of 360-degree battlefield. today, many soldiers are alive from battles of iraq and

afghanistan and other places that we have fought in because we learned from you the tactics, techniques and procedures of vertical lift and aviation in the ground regime, whether it's medevac, ground transport, troop transport so we don't have to drive through ieds. we sent 7,000 uh-1s to vietnam and over 1,000 op them got shot down. we sent 1,100 cobras into combat. over 300 of those got shot down. over 2,200 helicopter pilots, our fallen comrades, got shot down and paid the last, final

salute to the united states and sacrifice to all of us. and we learned from all of that, and i think it's fitting that we take time to understand the sacrifices of you guys and those who are over in arlington cemetery and how important it was the way you pioneered today's aviation force. in 1979, we had a hostage situation over in iran, and as you know, that didn't end well. but immediately there after we formed the 06th unit. it was vietnam veterans we called back to duty to form the little bird gun ship company, and it was again the vietnam veteran helicopter pilots we depended upon to get the tactics, tech neebs and

procedures down so we could form the unit, which is today known as the night stalkers provoke the world's best unit on aviation. today you'll hear from several of our vietnam helicopter pilotsful they all have great stories to he wille they're all heroes in their own right, just like you. all heroes, great patriots but the other thing is they're great brothers in arms. these guys have been together since vietnam. people forget it's been over 50 years since we brought to huey and the cobra to vietnam so i think it's fitting we hear from them today. let me end by the way i started. thanks for your service. i get asked a lot, what do we say to our veterans who have served and worn the uniform and donned the cloth of this nation. i tell america, saying thanks for your service is important, but if you really want to thank

the men and women who have born the brunt of battle and especially our vietnam veterans what we really need do as americans is live our lives worthy of their sacrifice. god bless all of you, i hope you enjoy this event. thank you. >> thank you, general cody. it's now my pleasure to turn our program over the our moderator. dwayne williams. he's a decorated vietnam veteran and helicopter pilot. graduated in 1966 and was assigned to the 175th helicopter company in vietnam where he served as gun ship pilot. after vietnam he was assigned to ft. walters and served as a helicopter instructor pilot until his discharge in 1979.

in he then began a 31 year-year career as chief pilot and experimental test pilot for bell helicopter. first in iran and ft. worth texas. since retiring from bell, he kept flying helicopters and resides in arlington, texas with his wife of over 52 years. please welcome dwayne williams and members of the vietnam helicopter pilots association. [ applause ] >> good afternoon. can you hear me? thank you all for being here. it's certainly my pleasure being here this evening and i think it's even more so a great honor

to be here with these guys. when i was called, invited out here to participate. the first thing i did was check my size 40 flight suit i wore in vietnam. i think i could get one leg in it. but these guys maintain a strict regimen of workout and fit in their size 40 really good. my wife says, you're going look nice so she dressed me up and here i am. we do have a story today to tell, several stories. before we get into that, i would like to introduce these guys. first of all, they're from the north carolina vhpa, vietnam helicopter pilot's association. they're the runs responsible for beautiful aircraft you see out front. they come all the way from north carolina. they got here sunday night. they will be here through sunday

and they have been standing out there every day, long days, take, care, answering questions and they do a great job, and i think i would like to give them a hand for that. [ applause ] . to my right here is joe dellfonto. colonel united states army retired. he was colonel in 196. commanding officer with the 604th transportation company, call signs, care takers. they provided maintenance for the 189 atth assault helicopter company, maintaining 28 to 30 aircraft. he had a heck of a job doing that. sitting next to him is ed hughes, colonel, retired. ed was in vietnam in 1971. he flew with the 116th, call

sign, hornets. and he is a survivor of lansong 109. i don't know if you know that that is, but he's going to tell you about it. then you have gary phillips. he flew in the 101st, and he also i think he flew hueys and then i think he also has an interesting story he's going tell us about flying a gun ship. last but not least, we have jerry siegel. we are the only two that thought we would cast your fortunes as civilians. i don't know about me, but i think jerry's done pretty well. one of the things he's proudest of is he is the founding father of this group.

and he has done a tremendous job f putting it all together and maintaining the aircraft. i know the work it takes. so i would like jerry to talk for just a minute about the unit. >> first off, i would like to thank the archives foundation and the staff here, bell helicopter and the l 2 technology for bringing us here to help honor the vietnam veterans. back in 1989, 16 pilots gathered in greensburg, north carolina to see if there was an interest in putting together a local organization where by helicopter pilots could get together, tell warstories, and i always say there's two things helicopter pilots don't do -- they don't drink beer and they don't tell war stories. >> both of them are lies.

>> and they don't lie. we started off with 16 people at about 9:00 in the morning and with two cases of beers, three dozen crispy cream donuts and a gallon of coffee, by 2:00 in thing afternoon, we had elected officers, written bye laws and set up to be incorporated. luckily we had a lawyer present. three months later after people decided we needed a helicopter to talk about, we decided we would go ahead and try to get a helicopter. this took three years to get our first aircraft. after we put this thing together and got it presentable. we went to will mington, north carolina to do a parade. this was purely sell fish on our part was we wanted to ride if in a parade. we went through. was putting the aircraft back together, next thing we knew, we

had 150 people standing around the aircraft. we said, wait a minute, there's an interest in this. from there, we started to pursue other aircraft. we have six aircraft now. we do displays all up and down the east coast. we have done schools at no cost to students. we can take these aircraft to schools and not only their historical, as part of their education, but can relate the course of studies to the aircraft. it may be in doing this that some student decides what he's going to do. this is the third trip to washington, d.c. this year. this year we did our third presidential inaugural parade. we have told this is the most parades that an organization like ours has done in history. hopefully we'll be around for

another one. we'll see. one of the things i'm most proud of of these guys is they put up with me. they go sometimes someplaces i wouldn't go with me. they put in long hours like they're doing out here today. we are self-supportive. we take no federal or state funding or no private sponsorship from the organizations. we have been doing this for 28 years and continue do this successfully. it can be done for organizations that are willing to put forth the effort. thank you all for supporting us here. >> the photos, they're really not relevant to what we are talking about, but they're neat photos provided by bell helicopter so occasionally i'm going flip through here so you see something new. might trigger one of us to -- oh, i got owe story for that.

so occasionally you'll see me flipping through this, but right now, i'll turn it over to joe to talk about what it was like maintaining 30 aircraft in that situation. >> thank you. it's a real honor and privilege for me to be here. i was a young brash lieutenant down at ft. campbell, and gung ho. just couldn't wait to get to vietnam. i wanted to be the greatest infantry platoon leader there ever was. thankfully, god blessed me with a young lady that said, you're going flight school. i said,ky handle that. off we went. went to fix wing high school. which was unusual because we needed helicopter pilots. then to rotary maintenance and off to vietnam. i was confident i was going end

up flying a u-21. twin engine, nice safe airplane, real high. no problems. dream went kaput. i ended up at camp holloway. i took over the tc 104th attachment at probably the worst time in their history. i was talking earlier today to one of our guys. we got there both at the same time. and it seems like in the upon the or two before i got there, there was some pretty intense combat operations up through that area. and the 52nd baa tattalion, our parent organization had literally flew themselves into ground performing evacuation missions of all kinds. long story short, when i

arrived, our unit, which was 20 uh-1s and 20 gun slicks had nothing fliebl. our aircraft were chalk pull to have wholes. down for maintenance, down for parts. i just want to sing a thank you and call out to the maintenance personnel that work behind the scenes over there. i had some of the best enlisted men in warrant officer that is i think this army ever saw. they were professional. they were dedicated. they were competent beyond belief. maintenance guys are behind the scenes guys. you don't here a lot about them when you see the vietnam things and other documentaries and war stories, but let me tell you, maintenance is never-ending. the uh-1 a marvelous aircraft. go to wikipedia and look it up

and you'll be blown away by what the aircraft can do. but it bring a lot of maintenance. scheduled, unscheduled, combat problems to be repaired. we test influence airplanes after maintenance that we should not have. sitting there half asleep in the cockpit to make sure everything was cool. jerry was one of my test pilots. enlisted guys, they turned to -- we got back to our mission required 12 slicks and six gun ships within about a month and it was only the dedication and the professionalism of the nco corps that did that. i had an infantry first sergeant of all things in an aviation unit and he was a leader's leader. the ncos are the backbone of the

army. this guy took these young men under his arm and trained them, brought them up the way they should be, made them love what they were doing. i had a technical instructor that grew up with the huey. he knew as much about the airplane as probably any bell engineer out there. i was blessed. i had the best warrant officers of the crop. one of my guys said he could do a rotation at night and land the thing in the dark on a dime. and they could, they were that good. so as i say, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. we didn't have sundays or thursdays or whatever it was. we just fixed airplaning. they loved whatever they were doing and did it very well. one of the more exciting part offense that was recovering downed aircraft. and that ran the gamut.

there were airplanes that got shot down that weld have to rig and pick up with a chinook or ukraine and bring it back so it could be salvaged to fly again. there were aircrafts that we had to fix on site. one of most exciting times i ever had was when i went up to a place that was a pretty hotly contested piece of ground and had an airplane that landed there, damage to the rotor blades and tail rotor. director francis and i got dropped off on the ground at ben hat and spent the next two or three hours trying to do enough damage repair to bring that home. i went up on top putting duct tape on the rotor blades where the holes were and francis was

replacing the tail rotor. -- which is unheard of. probably not another man would do that. he's standing on a 50-gallon drum. the bad guys started lobbing mortar shells into the base. fortunately, they were on the other side. but it gets our attention. we get off the airplane and jump in ditch and hide. the gunfire would go away, and we would go do our thing. after the third it ration, i said to francis, i think they're having more fun with us than anything else, we should finish up and get home. >> he said, good idea, let's go. again, we can't give enough thanks to the young enlisted guys and the warrants that work sod hard. the other group that often gets overlooked and one i want to make a shout-out to is the wives

and the families. we get all the glory, we get all the thank you for your service, but the wives and families left back in the united states waiting -- we didn't have cell phones. we didn't have any way to talk or communicate to them for the most part except letters and they were there. they were waiting. they didn't know where we were. we were too busy, honest to goodness to think about it. i never thought about dying or getting shot or killed. i didn't have time to think about that. i was if i can, aircrafts. but my wife did, and she was thinking about it every day. as did these guys wives and girlfriends and families. i just want to say a shout-out to them. they deserve our gratitude forever, and i thank you.

>> echoing joe, my young wife of four months dropped me off at ft. walters, november '65, and last august we celebrated our 52 anniversary. and that's quite a feat, i think. >> yes. >> amen. >> but my wife, just like joe said, boy, we chose well. for all you wives up there, you get kudos, you really do. i know you go through, and wives suffered through. i know my wife woke up one morning in the night with a terrible pain in the knee. she knew i had been shot. which i wasn't. she didn't know that. she didn't know that for weeks. so like joe said, they endured, they suffered and endured and good for you. i tell you, the wives get a round of applause.

jerry. mr. phelps. jerry was with the 101st, but then he had a -- i think he stayed the whole time, but one of things he started flying with us 106 gun ships. i'll let him tell that story of what that was like. >> i arrived in vietnam, assigned to 101, the black widows. flew huey slicks for about two months. when they called down and asked for volunteers to fly the 086 for the third brigade so i volunteered for that. went up to join head quarterers and company, third brigade, camp evans, vietnam. started flying the 086 with a mini gun on the left side and a door gunner in the right rear and a few hand grenades, and

wewe would go out. our typical day could start first light in the morning, we would do a perimeter reconaround camp evans looking for any targets on the ground radar the censers picked up the night before. many times it was just water buffalo, stuff like that, but every now and then, we would find a few bad guys. if our unit, we had six 086s, six uh-1s. they were more command and control. we also had an infantry platoon, blues platoon. one of 086s went out and found some enemy act tift, we could insert the blues platoon to develop the situation. and at that time they were fully armed, carried very few rations. just bullets and weapons.

we never left them in overnight. we would call out the infantry platoons and develop it further and pull our people out at night. after we completed these recons in the morning, we would either marry up with another 086 gun ship and weld would be assigne with maybe an ao for other areas or if there was a ground support unit that was in the contact and needed aerial support, we would go help them out as much as we could. we could also marry up with the fourth or the 7th a.r.a. cobras, which really give us a little fire power there. we would go hunt the treetops, look at what we could find. when we develop something, we

call down for the cobras to develop the situation. that was our routine every day. did the area perimeter every morning and we worked anywhere from the dmz, burgess garden, the ego's nest. vaneder grift. the marine base. it was always interesting going there, because the marines built vaneder grift in the valley and the mountains on the sides were owned fbi bad guys so whenever we went there, we took fire. it was a very fulfilling job. i enjoyed doing it and i was extremely lucky. i only got shot down one time, and -- but we made it through. got another helicopter and took

off again. so that's about our day there. i ended up with about 950 combat hours. >> thank you, jerry. [ applause ] jerry said 950 hours. i think the average helicopter pilot in vietnam probably flew 1,000 hours and that is a lot of time. that is a lot of time in a year. and it's all pretty much combat. from the time you lifted off, you could be shot at any time so i think that was the average time that the pilots flew over there. and when i introduced ed, when i first looked through their bios, i saw where ed hughes flew -- he was in vietnam in '71 and pafrts

pated in lam song '79. non i don't know if you know the history of the vietnam war, but lam song was primarily the south vietnam army operation. by that time, the end of the war was starting. a lot of u.s. military were standing down so they didn't have military support, but they weren't the primary units in this operation. and it was the largest combat assault operation in the history of the entire vietnam war. and it was an incursion into laos to cut off supply lines. and they used 276 hueys.

and then i don't know how many cobras but i'm sure there were ser several hundred. of that group, 168 helicopters were shot down. i think the going in wasn't so bad. it's always the picking up in the pz. the lz, not so bad, but you the pick up zone, the pz, oh, that's when you sweated it. i'm going let ed tell us his story. >> i showed up in vietnam in july 1970. was ie signed to the 116th, the yellow jacket platoon. as a new guy they call you expletive, new guy. for the first two months you fly with the aircraft commanders that have been there and earned the right to be an aircraft commander. after three months or so when

you have accumulated 300 hours in country, they put you up for a check ride. you ride with every aircraft commander in that unit that flies the type of aircraft you're going fly. in my case it was a uh-1d and a hotel model. you have to please every one of those pilots or you don't get called an aircraft commander. i was fortunate enough that i passed my ride and picked the call sign. that's what i used the rest of time efs there. in july, we ran normal assaults of a helicopter company. everything from ash and trash, carrying parts from point a to point b. resupply to fire bases, or to points in the field. control, combat assaults. could be two or three ships, up to ten ships in this area.

in march of 1971, a lot of us were in the "o" club, and we had had a couple of drinks which aviators don't normally do, and they made the announcement that all aviators were to return to their unit. our general informed us we were going participate in lam song 719. about an hour an after that, i took off. i was flight lead of a gun ship and four slicks. we got to the da nang, refueled, took off, started to cross the habang pass. goes down to the south china sea, climbs up. i don't know how many thousand feet, but it climbs way up. in the dark. everybody got off it but me.

no o knowing there was a mountain to my west, i pulled in torque and climbed as high and fast as i could go. about a half hour later i finally got radio control on the board and got in. briefed on our first flight before going laos. that's where i developed my appreciation and respect for the world war ii aviators. can you imagine a helicopter flying through flak? this was flak. you fly along and look up in front of you and a huey that was there a minute ago isn't there anymore. you have cobras flying alongside and they would find a 51 cal, and they were told, do not attack individual .51 cals and the reason was, they would

sucker the cobra in and a second one would open up and shoot it down, knowing the aviator isn't going leave their buddy on the ground. so another one comes in, a third .51 opens up. now you got two pilots down there. you got a maintenance aircraft from the office, got shot down trying to get them out. they stayed on the ground in a bunker for almost four days until they inserted a group of rangers in there to remove it. when they did, that entire area was surrounded by an entire area of dead north vietnamese. from the minute we took off to wherever we went, i was praying some kind of hard. went we did the extraction, they

were saying, go out there and pick them up. the first wave went in to pick them up. the vietnamese were in panic. they were getting their you know whats cleaned and they were not being orderly about getting on the aircraft. huey can only care 13 people plus a group of four. these south vietnamese were cramming on to the aircraft. some of these hueys couldn't take off. they would try to and crash as they went over the ridge line. to counter that, we went to the vehicular maintenance people and got as mush greece they could get so if they were hanging on, they they didn't stay on for long. we did that for two or three

days. i still have at home today an inch and a half piece of mortar round that went into my aircraft. lam song, down south for a year, yeah, you got shot at. yeah, we took a bunch of hits here and there, put aircraft into maintenance because of it, but lam song was beat up and really built my respect for the world war ii pilots. >> thank you, ed. [ applause ] >> like i said, when i saw ed had flown, i thought, we got hear this story. vietnam was a helicopter war. and i think it's where the helicopter -- it was in its infancy and had to crawl and walk and jog and run in the span

of ten years, and that's exactly what it did. across the board, all the military, all the branches combi combined, there was over 12,000 helicopters that served in that war during that period of time. we lost 5,600. through accidents, but most combat. and the iconic huey and the cobras you see out front, general cody touched on that -- the huey, it personifies that war. in fact, i don't know if you know it, but the united states postal service saw fit to put the huey on the stamp of the

vietnam war. so it's the face of that war. there was over 7,000 hueys sent into that -- into vietnam. those 7,000 hueys flew 7,500,000 hours. and we lost 3,600, i think. almost half. of the 12,000, we lost almost half and of the 7,000, lost almost half. the cobra was the jonny come lately. didn't get there in the the '67, '68 time frame. it was a risky business. i have read several articles where it listed the most dangerous jobs in vietnam. which one do you think was

number one? helicopter air crewman. number two was the lrp, long range reconpatrol. oh, boy, those guys. third was the tunnel rats. let me tell you, tunnel rats get the top of the heap. i don't want no part of that. so it was a risky business, and i think, you know, that was just part of the price i suppose. and we lost a lot of good men. general cody mentioned of the men we lost. percentagewise, we represent a small number, but we have a high casualty rate overall. i read an article once where it said the marines lost a lot of people -- over 13,000.

and that the helicopter crewmen and the marines still had -- you had three times as great a risk as being shot down as a helicopter crewman as you did being an infantryman. and the -- you know, we could sit here and talk about that, but i think, you know, the takeaway from that is i think as general cody said, it kind of was the -- it started a new -- now there's not a unit of military in the world that doesn't have a lot of helicopters. and i think these guys are the ones that kind of set the pace. do any of you have anything you can add to this. >> >> i would like to add two comments. i would loo toik back joe up on the maintenance personnel. i flew 1,100 hours.

i never had one mechanical failure that wasn't caused by me hitting a tree or something else. never had engine failure or anything else. second is warrant >> okay. >> medevac. >> flight school taught us how to fly the helicopters. the one officers in vietnam taught me how to really fly that helicopter and what it would do. everything i did after that, i owe to them, just like general cody said. they taught me how to fly that helicopter. what it could really do and how to make it do it. >> when you get to vietnam, like you said, you're treated like a leper.. they don't know you. you're coming -- really, when we went, i graduated one month and i was in vietnam 20-some odd days later.

and when i got to the unit, it was in the early -- we were really strapped for pilots. but they tried to -- every one of the units, it wasn't like throw that boy into the meat grinder. they all tried to give you time. i heard ed mention ash and trash. that was the fly, resupply in between combat assaults. and i think it took me -- it was 25 days, and i think it was 25 hours before they put you into combat is all. and i think on the fifth day, i was in a combat assault. took me four days to get 25 hours. and imagine if you will a young man who just got there, didn't really know what it was all about, and i'm sitting as a co-pilot in a lift. the lift is comprised of ten aircraft. i would be in the second lift.

it's an ld. they called it cold. which means nothing is going on. there are no bad guys. >> in reality, it meant nobody knew what was there. that was our experience. >> every tree line had a cobra. if there's a cobra in there, it's going to strike. i just didn't know. i was sitting there, and there were jets on call, you know, and then there's a little air force fax. and i'm listening to all this talk, you know, okay. and they're hearing gentlemen, we're on short final in the lz. 30 seconds. want to be in the kill zone, 30 seconds. well, they say your life span is 30 seconds in a kill zone in the lz. they start mortaring, eight

seconds. but i'm sitting up here and that first lift hits, and they're about five minutes ahead of us. i mean all hell breaks loose. oh, my god, screaming, taking fire, getting shots, and i see shooting, and they're bringing in jets and the guns are hammering away, and i'm hearing screaming, taking fire from 2:00, 3:00, 4:00, and i'm thinking. whatever length of time i have between now and the time we land in the lz, that's how long i have to live.

i can't say i was scared. i was overwhelmed. i just kept thinking, how did i get in this movie? let me off. and then we come in and we landed. and the aircraft, the helicopter is hit, just when it comes in and slows and settles in, in our case, we settle in to the rice paddies. when it starts settling in, much like a duck on a pond, it settled and you are at your most vulnerable. you can't fly. you're settled in, and they know it takes you a while to get those troops off. 30 seconds, gentlemen. 30 seconds, get them off. get them off. and just when -- i see tracers flashing bys and guys in the water. okay, things slow down. okay, it's not good.

and i am already, my gut is sucked up and i'm already trying to shrink into that seat. and then i hear the trail, you have the lead in the front, now you have the trail. he's the eyes for the lead. he goes, they're dropping mortars in on us, lead. they're dropping mortars. i hear this clump, and i look over and i see this -- thank god we're in a rice paddy. if mortars, if it would have been a hard surface, we would have been flattened, but the mud absorbed it. i see mud flying and dirty black smoke or flame from it. then i see that and i hear aircraft is rocked. and gunner behind me screams, i have been hit. now, i am shrinking. doing my best to get behind that chest protector. i think, what have these guys got against me. then finally, at long last, the trail says, troops are out. let's go. i tell you what, lead did not have to get a second feed. that aircraft came up and that nose ducked and we were right there. and we cleared the lz, one of the aircrafts called out mayday,

i got to get in. my hydraulic has been hit. that's the life blood of the helicopter, and he's been shot, taking hits, so he managed to get out of the lz. and i'm thinking, and now we get out. we get away. we're going back to pick up more. and we're going to go back. oh, yeah. we're going to go back. you know, i think that was the mantra of the helicopters. those guys on the ground, we're going to be back. we took them into combat. took them in to the lz. and we brought them out. we picked them up and brought them home. in between, like ed said, we carried supplies. we carried ammo by the ton. we carried water, we carried food. if they got hit, they knew that we were going to be in there to pick them up. they knew that within a matter of minutes, a medevac is going to be in there to pick them up. it didn't matter what we lose, we're going to be in there. when those guys were engaged in combat and called for guns, oh, yeah. they're coming.

and i think that's -- i will have to say, that first combat assault, i remember thinking oh, this is going to be a long war. this is going to be a long year. maybe i could be a -- think of anything, a tank driver. but as you went on, i think it became accepted. it's a risk you accept. i didn't really know when i got there, i know these guys will say the same thing. i didn't really know why i was there. i can't say i was there to fight for democracy. i was there because my country sent me. they asked me and i went. i volunteered. every helicopter pilot, all 40,000, can you imagine that?

40,000 helicopter pilots served in vietnam. we all volunteered. every one of us. and i think if there's a legacy, it's the fact that we never left anybody on the ground. be it american, in my case down south, we supported the army of the south vietnamese army. we made no distinction. they were our flock. we were their shepherds. we would die for them. and after a while, you know, i knew what i was there for. i was there for these guys. i was there for that guy who was flying. i was there for these guys. i was there for these guys on the ground. that's what i was there for. and every one of us can make

that statement. i don't know what more we can say, but i think -- are we getting close to where we want to have some -- go ahead. >> you need to recognize the door gunners. they had the discipline, when you think about a door gunner, an m-60 and a bungee cord sticking out the door. they had the discipline and presence of mind not to shoot the rotor blade, not to shoot the skid. a whole different ball game. a lot of these door gunners weren't aviationists. they volunteered. they would come in and fight. in my case, the gunner was also my crew chief. >> he mentioned there, i have always said that laziness is the mother of invention. in vietnam, it was survivable. to survive, you had to be inventive. and i know back in those days, you have to understand, we didn't have -- we didn't have any of these things you have

today. we were lucky to have a wrist watch, if it worked. and i was down south, and i didn't have to worry about mountains. a lot of rice paddies. the rice bowl of asia. rice paddies and rivers, creeks, ponds. but up north, they had mountains. these guys flew in mountains. i didn't have to worry about that. one day y had one of my closest friends flew with the 71st rattlers, firebird. and i was at the reunion, and they were talking about swish boom method. i go, what? what are you talking about? they go, well, the way we navigate. how did you navigate with the swish boom? quite easy. said, you know, up there, when you were scrambled out, when a

call went out, you scrambled out, didn't matter what it was, in the wee hours of the morning, you have not seen black until you have seen black over a jungle. oh, my lord, is it black. well, those guys knew the environment, and they could navigate out. but when they would go out, maybe it starts getting a little drizzly. so it didn't matter what kind of a firefight they got into, all these gunships would save two or three rockets, because they all knew they had to go back through the mountains. and they were pretty sure they knew where they were going, but not real sure. you know, kind of dark, and they're going along. so what they would do when they would become unsure, they would slow down to about 35 knots, and the crew chiefs and gunners would stand outside on the skids and they would fire rockets, swoosh. listen for a bang.

if they heard a bang, then they hit a mountain. so they would take another -- the lead ship run out of rockets, then the second one -- i said, well, you guys, you certainly top my story. but like you said, those guys that led the way taught us, they taught us so many tricks that we would not have survived if they had not done that. and i am still in awe today, and to be sitting here with these guys telling these stories. posturing and telling war stories, but anyway. >> one quick thing. joe saved me from myself, i guess, because i had the luck of getting shot at for nine months flying slicks and gunships out in the field, and he came along and they said this guy is qualified for this, this, this. and so he would work as a maintenance test pilot.

so i wasn't getting shot at anymore, but i was losing engines, tail rotors, hydraulics. and a lot of times we did test flights. we flew, take off in the fog, climb over the fog and rotate back to the runway. and in that process, you may lose an engine, may lose a tail rotor. so he took me out of the safety of getting shot at and put me over there so i was going to fall out of the air. i really appreciate what he did for me. >> make it quick. >> real quick. okay, he talked about the local area check-outs and all that. they put me in the cockpit with on officer, probably 19 years old but more flight time than i had, and he took me out on an ash and trash mission to get my orientation and teach me how to fly in vietnam. we were taking mail and food and supplies to a fire base. lots of fire bases around vietnam, typically on a pinnacle. maybe 20 guys and an artillery station.

so if you don't know much about flying, you want to understand, but the wind gets squirrely and you're loaded heavy. we came around to make our approach, and the warrant officer said you got it, put it on the ground. it's a team effort. the crew chief and gunner are back there like a baseball chief. you're doing great, long story short, i missed the approach. too hot and fast, had to go around. i came back and did the same thing, and they're talking, this time, i'm a little too slow. we had to go around again. so i'm on my third approach in there, and the ward officer looked at me and said, you know what, if you don't put this on the ground this time, they're probably going to shoot you down because they want that mail and they want that food. we got it on the ground, thank you god. >> we could sit, we would love to sit here. i know, but we would like to take, if you guys have any questions on either side. question number one. >> is it on? can you hear me?

so 48 years ago, i remember you guys as young and handsome and bulletproof. you're still handsome -- >> whoa. whoa. >> you're still handsome, but you're not young, and neither am i, but we were there for you. i was a young army nurse. i was 21 years old. [ applause ] and that clapping is for my patients, because you guys came to us. i was there in '68, '69. and our casualties were by the hundreds, as you know. our heroes were you guys. the pilots. they were bulletproof. we were young. but they would go into the worst conditions and be shot at. and land just so they could bring those wounded to us. and because you were so brave and because you were so quick

and got to our hospital, 27 of them, 27 military hospitals in vietnam up and down, and then of course, the navy, the hospital ships, their nurses were pretty because they got prettier because they got to wear white. we were in jungle fatigues. the marines were happy when they got to the sanctuary. the guys came to us and we looked just like you, jungle fatigues. but if you -- if a patient made it to our hospital, we had a 90% save rate. we saved 90% of our patients who came to our hospitals. i worked in the burn unit. and helicopters crashed and burned. and i took care of a lot of burned helicopter pilots who went home very disfigured, never to fly again. and my hat just goes off to those chopper pilots. we loved you guys. we still do. i'll get my hugs later. i always do. but these guys were true, true

heroes. they were there to save lives. and those of you who didn't fly dust off, i'm sure there were times you touched down to bring wounded to us. so i have very fond memories of all of you and it was a great privilege to be a military nurse in vietnam. and all of us nurses feel that way. so thank you. [ applause ] >> i wanted to thank you gentlemen, because of you i'm alive today. as a member of a medevac company, 498, 44th med brigade, i served in the central highlands from the pacific ocean to the cambodian border. i took place in the evacuation of 2,000 combat civilians and personnel. i flew over 1800 combat hours, 26 air medals and i wouldn't have any of them if it wasn't for you guys.

any time we had a hot lz, we would call you guys first. you would go in ahead of us, get the enemies to duck, we would fly in at 129 knots as fast as that bird would carry us at treetop level. we would get on the ground. if i'm on the ground more than 30 seconds, i'm dead. my mission was, number one, put them onboard while they're breathing, and get them off the helicopter at the hospital or wherever, next to a medical doctor within 30 minutes. without fail. we evacuated over 285,000 american combatants who would be dead today if it wasn't for our job and their job protecting me while i was doing mine. so thank you guys. [ applause ] >> i think we have a short -- i think we have a short video clip, if we could roll that and show that. if they could do that. very short, but i think it's of a jolly green rescue mission. >> we're coming in now.

>> okay. >> we have you in sight. helicopter is close by. >> what is your position? >> he says he's got both legs broken so he hasn't moved around any. [ inaudible ] >> what's your position to your

shoot? >> both lights broken. >> we're coming in over you. >> over him now, jack. >> okay. you're right over him, he says. >> he's going out the door now. >> roger. >> got you. turn your beacon off. turn your beacon off. turn your beacon off. he's on the ground. >> 243. >> go ahead.

>> two broken legs, possible broken arm. >> we're going to put you down. >> put you down to help the guy. >> roger. >> got both on the ground. >> are you ready? >> okay. can you come and get us now?

>> coming up. don't drop him. >> roger. >> hurt pretty bad. >> they're moving out now, breaking to the left. >> there they go. all right. >> fantastic. i can't believe it. >> that says it all right there. that's what the helicopter does so well. i mean, it's always there. we have no more questions, i

certainly appreciate all of you being here today. and speaking all all these guys. thank you. it's been quite an honor for me to be here. thank you. [ applause ] >> god bless america. >> amen. join us sunday on cspan to hear from the former director of national intelligence, james

clapper. he talks about his life and career in the intelligence community. he also discussed his decades of public service and shared his views on current intelligence issues during an event hosted by george washington university earlier this year. here's a preview. >> and yeah, there are times when you have to be tough with people. but by and large, what i found in my 50 plus years in the intel business is people want to do the right thing. they want to do the mission. they want to do it, they want to do it well and want to excel in it. you just have to create an environment where that can happen. leadership and intelligence ultimately penultimately i guess, is about motivating others to use their intellects. that's one of the great things from a diversity standpoint about the intelligence community. it's all about your brain. doesn't matter what your ethnic group is. your gender. your sexual preference.

nub one of that matters. it's your mind is what counts in the intelligence community. and the interesting work that you have the opportunity to engage in. any way, i sort of consider that the leadership laboratory. it will be in the book. but i thought i'd mention it because in the context of leadership. looking back, i think one factor that is changing intelligence community, the thing that has change ed it more than anything else is technology. the it's not, i mean when we had traumas like 9/11. yes, that had an impact. reorganizations, which i think are are highly overrated. yeah, but what is really historically changed business of intelligence is technology. and i say that in the context of

adversary technology. what are the adversaries doing and our own to cope with it? >> you can catch the rest of his speech sunday on cspan at 6:30 p.m. eastern. sunday night on after words. christopher scalia, son of the late supreme court justice, antonin scalia, talks about his book, scalia speaks. he's interviewed by los angeles times supreme court correspondent, david savage. >> it's one he delivered often. the it was his stump speech. i was looking forward to finding a written version of that because i loved that peaspeef. i thought it was great. it included a wonderful passage where he compared the living constitution approach to a television commercial from the 1980s. where a prego commercial where somebody is making pasta, just heating up store bought pasta

sauce and the husband says to his wife, you're using this store bought sauce? you're not doing it homemade? what about the oregano. the wife says, it's in there. the pepper? it's in there. the garlic? it's in there! my dad would say we've got that kind of a constitution now. you want a right to an abortion, it's in there? a right to die? it's in there. anything that's good and true and beautiful, it's in there. no matter what the text says. >> watch after words sunday night at 9:00 p.m. eastern on cspan 2's book tv. coming up new year's weekend on cspan. saturday at 8:00 p.m. eastern. north korean refugees describe life under the kim regime. >> in china, however, tens of thousands of north korean defectors are leaving without papers under the shadows and are being physically r or sexually

exploited. while the u.s. should continue urging china and russia to support more economic sanctions, it should also do more. to stop beijing repate rating defectors back to north korea. >> sunday at 6:30 p.m. eastern, james clapper on his career in the intelligence community. >> we call that new paradigm immaculate collection. i mean it semihumorously, but makes a point about the difficulty of being so precise given the global interconnection represented by the internet, which is where everybody communicates. and the difficulty of sorting out good people and bad people. >> and on monday, new year's day at 10:00 a.m. eastern, a tech fire spumt sumt on the self-driving revolution and at noon, former clinton administration officials on the legacy of former president bill clinton.

>> he knew who he was fighting for. got there every day. he knew the people he wanted to help. and through thick and thin when times were good and times were bad a, all he cared about was could he deliver for the people who needed the government to be on their side. >> watch this new year's weekend on cspan. cspan, where history unfolds daily. in 1979, cspan was created as a public service by america's cable television companies and is brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. navy pilot john mccain was shot down over north vietnam in his 23rd mission in 1967. he ejected from his skyhawk bomber into a lake and was captured, beaten, h