♪ ♪ a live picture of memphis, tennessee, where in just a few minutes our live coverage continues of the 50th anniversary of the assassination of martin luther king jr. with a discussion about the influence of dr. king and stories from civil rights leaders. while we wait for the event to get underway in memphis, here is more about the king commemoration from today's "washington journal."

>> sophia nelson joins us, she'ses author of "e pluribus one: reclaiming our founders' vision for america." what's the best way to remember him in this day and age? >> well, what comes to mind for me when i think of dr. king is a patriot. he was a true revolutionary. you know, what he said to this country was, i want you to be true to your documents. i want you to own up to what you said on paper, and what did thomas jefferson write? we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. i think of the patriot, the man who helped to make this country great because he held its feet to the fire. that's what patriots do, they hold us to truths, they hold us to righteousness and goodness and community and brotherhood and sisterhood, so that's who he

was to me. >> so if he dealt with topics of race relations, equality, poverty, where are we 50 jeers later jeers -- years later on those things? >> it would be wrong to say we haven't made progress. the whole 1968 year was a difficult year for america. we've definitely made progress. we had an african-american president and women who sit on the supreme court. not enough. we see young black men being killed in the streets at the hands of not only each other but law enforcement, and they're always under suspicious circumstances and there never seems to be adjudication or justice for those who are unarmed and are victims of this, and i think if dr. king were here, he would be on the front lines with black lives matter and other organizations, and he'd be challenging this government and this nation to honor the civil rights that he fought for and his generation

died for literally. >> so where could we go as far as politically in fulfilling that? >> we're in a difficult place right now politically. we're very divided. i think we're as divided now as we've ever been, maybe more so in some ways, because at least in the time of dr. king, there was a consciousness that there was right and wrong, that this could not stand. you know, you think of the famous jfk speech in 1963 where he talks about, you know, the founding principles of this nation and you can't have half the population living one way and the other the rest, but think now we think we're beyond that. i think because we've had a black president, we think we're over racism, it doesn't exist anymore. i think it's harder in many ways to get through because for many white americans in particular, the "roseanne" america that everybody's talking about, those folks say, wait, i'm disfranchised, i'm out of work, i'm struggling, why am i worried about the rights of immigrants or women or minorities? not that those things don't matter, but i'm struggling as a

white american. so there is this great divide now, we're not talking to each other, we're talking at each other and that's a problem. >> how much of that is fostered by the current administration? >> greatly. >> how so? >> well, just go to twitter, you know? the president of the united states is an office that is sacred. it's a sacred trust between the presidency and the people, and it has a decorum, it has a standard of conduct that no president has violated, say richard nixon and what he did, and he had to resign. but we've had two presidents impeached, johnson and clinton, johnson meaning andrew johnson in the 1860s, but my point is no president in modern history had the divisive twitter the way this president has at his disposal but used it in such a mean spirited and ugly way. no one is safe from his twitter feed and that is disappointing. >> does that filter down to parties themselves? not just the republican party, the democratic party as well? >> there is a meanness afoot. rex tillerson said this, he was fired on twitter. what a wrong way to handle

another human being. there is a meanness afoot in washington, a cavalierness, a callousness that says it's us versus them. that is the people's house. that belongs to us. they're supposed to go there to do our business. representative government engaged in informed self-governing. it's ugliness, mud throwing, name-calling. i hate you, i'm going to get you, i'm going to take you out. that's not what our founders envisioned for us. >> sophia nelson joining us. she is the author of "e pluribus one: reclaiming our founders' vision for a united america." for those who don't know you, give viewers your political background. >> by background i'm an attorney. been in this town a long time. i was a house republican counsel. as an african-american woman being a republican, jack kemp

expired me. he came to my college in the late 1980s and i was inspired. he was a great republican. i worked for people like christine todd whitman. i'm a moderate, a rino is what they call us, i guess. they're not too popular these days. i think this country needs two strong parties and a good republican party and a good democrat party, and i'm a journalist now. i'm on air a lot on msnbc. i'm a contributor to nbc news, et cetera. and so i've written a lot of books. working on number four now. lawyer. lobbyist. you name it, i've done it in this town. >> in the lens of race then, what do you see things as particularly from your personal experience? >> as a woman of color we have a long way to go in terms of pay equity. if you look at the fortune 500 in this country, it tells you everything you need to know. there are maybe three or four female ceos. ursula burns is the only african-american one. she stepped down.

kathy deloitte, but our white sisters aren't doing well, but women of color are very far behind. for men of color, again, this issue of imprisonment, how they're being treated by law enforcement, and it seems to be we're cavalier about this. it's like there is this malaise over us where we just don't care, so i'm concerned about us going backwards. it feels like we're going backwards instead of forwards. we've got me too and us too and the great movements of our time. dr. king was a true revolutionary. like the founders, he actually did something. he didn't just talk and give speeches. people forget this man marched. he was with the sanitation workers in memphis. he was doing things to move the ball. now we like to talk, talk, talk, talk, and we don't do a lot of ball moving. >> movement comes how, then? >> it comes through revolution. it comes through challenge, change, provocation, it comes through people living out our

motto, e pluribus unum, out of many, one. we don't have to agree. i'm so sick of the notion we have to agree. we don't have to agree. that's the beauty of our country. the founders in the colonies, there were 13 of them. they agreed on very little. what they agreed on was king george was a tyrant and he needed to go. what we need to start doing as americans is finding the things we agree on. we all want better schools. we all want our children safe in their schools. we all want better wages and better jobs and a better way of life. we all want to be able to worship freely, exercise the bill of rights freely in this country. all of the ten amendments, not justst second amendment, i'm a big proponent of. i'm a gun owner, former nra member, but that doesn't mean we can't be smart, it doesn't mean we can't be safe about this. the free press, sacrosanct to who we are. how dare the president of the united states do what he's doing against the free press and going against a private company like amazon and saying that they own "the washington post" when they don't. those things are hurting the

markets. all this stuff is interrelated and we, the people, need to challenge that instead of going, oh, well, it is what it is. i'm okay with it. it's not okay. >> calls lined up for you. first one is from athens, georgia. independent line. grayson is up first. go ahead. >> good morning. i really enjoy you, ms. nelson, on all the places i've seen you on. i like your attitude. we don't agree on everything, but i think that you really come across in such a kind way. >> thank you. >> caller: in a way that is open to other discussions. the thing i wanted to mention was that mlk was shot during trying to help people get a living wage, and i think that was something that we should keep in mind. i'd like to hear your opinion on the new jim crow, with the imprisonment that is going on with so many people of color. i thank you. >> great call.

michelle alexander's book, "the new jim crow," amazing book. everyone should read it. we were actually having this discussion on air the other night where we are in a place where african-american women are becoming the next largest group of prison -- populated in prisons, and i think that it is important that we press our elected representatives, again, to make the change. we need criminal justice reform. we need to come up with a standard across the board for policing. we need to help communities and police come together. organizations like operation blue shield and others in texas are doing that, they're bridging the gap and the divide so that people are talking to one another, so that they are working together, and i think that when our politicians understand that when you have a large segment of a population, african-american men in prison like this, it devastates not just that population but children don't have fathers,

women don't have husbands, communities don't have economic viability and a tax base. so it is something that just rolls downstream in a very negative way. we need criminal justice reform. i thank you for that question. it's a serious issue. >> is the mentality changing amongst republicans, conservative outside groups? is the mentality changing to make those changes? >> you see rand paul, libertarian, moderate leaning. some conservative. i think james at the heritage foundation has been tweeting about those things as an african-american woman who served in the bush administration. she's a conservative who cares about these issues. you have a shift of a mindset where republicans who should really care about this issue more because of the foundations of how the republican party is built, i think you're starting to see it, but i think both parties are going to have to work together and stop fighting because we literally have large segments of the american community that are incarcerated

and we know the sentences aren't just. look at melissa alexander, the woman who shot the gun up in the air and got 20 years and gorge zimmerman who shot trayvon martin and he got no name. he had stand your ground. >> dennis is in st. port lucy, florida. democrats' line. good morning. >> caller: good morning. sophia, do you think it's time for a strong, independent third-party in america, and if so, would you please become our president? >> well, you're very kind, but, listen, i do -- i think that we are at a place where we're at a tipping point. i think that the american people agree that washington is very broken. you know, president trump campaigned on draining the swamp. the swamp doesn't get drained here. i've been here a long time, and things are more of the same than they're not and it seems that, like i said earlier, people are getting meaner. so whether or not there needs to

be an independent party, i mean, i know evan mcmullin and others have kind of thrown this out there. it's difficult, though, because the two parties are so entrenched, right, that even if you got an independent elected, talk to some of the members of congress like bernie sanders and others who are independents, that's why there are so few of them, it's difficult to raise money, it's difficult to get support, and once you get into office, you've got to caucus with either the democrats or the republicans, really, to get something done. so i don't think a third party is viable at the moment but it could become so. and, no, i so do not want to be president. thank you for that. >> independent line. baltimore, maryland. shawn, hello. >> caller: hello. how are y'all doing today? >> how are you? >> caller: i'm good. you actually spoke on what i was going to ask. i heard you mention rand paul and the libertarian party. my question to you is, do you think we as black people need to start looking at the libertarian party was the democrats aren't doing anything and the republicans aren't doing

anything either. you mentioned rand paul. i'm a huge fan of rand paul. he constantly talks about criminal justice reform. and he has gone on tv and said -- and talked about how the war on drugs has mainly affected black and brown people. >> absolutely. >> caller: he always talks about how the majority of black people have ended up in prison versus white people don't really go to prison for drug charges. he's very genuine about this subject, even when obama was in office, and i'm always telling my friends and associates, hey, rand paul is the real deal and i actually believe if the libertarian party was stronger, he would break away from the republican party and just be all-out. he would just become an all-out libertarian candidate. i was just curious what do you think about that? >> well, that's a great question, but here's how i would answer that. i think the african-american community has to do a better job at making both parties, both the

republicans and the democrats, fight for our vote. we don't. we know that african-american women have pretty much become a monolith. 90-some percent are predictably voting for the democratic party. i my understand that is because the issues the democratic party champions fits more in line with the increasing population of the african-american women in this country who are single, heads of household. not necessarily by choice, it's by chance. that's my first question. relative to the republicans, you know the republican party has a glorious history with the african-american community, up until about the 1960 election and then going forward, the dixie cat dixiecrats, but the gop with trump i think is sustaining severe damage. president trump's rhetoric has been not with -- what the republican party should be proud of. it's fallen along gender lines,

racial lines. out and out in your face, just outrageous many times. the gop is going to pay the price for that. i think a new generation of republicans like myself and others are going to have to do some party rebuilding and reaching out because the country's demographics have changed such that no president will win an election going forward with just white votes. it's not going to be possible. the demographics of this country are shifting. brown and black people will be the majority in just, what, a decade or so? and that has -- that is part of why we see all of this racial tension and all of this upheaval. with respect to libertarians, i like to think i'm probably closer to a libertarian than i am a republican, so i agree with you rand paul, he's one of my favorites as well. he gets it. and as i said, we're in alignment. criminal justice reform impacts the black and brown communities in this country severely, but even large segments of white america in certain areas in their country, rural areas, the crime rates are going up. the opioid crisis.

all of these things fit in with the use of drugs, et cetera. it's becoming a real problem for our country. to answer your question, think the black vote needs to do a better job like hispanics, women, gays and other groups that say, come get my vote. you need to show me something. i'm missouri today. i'm the show me state. and that's what we african-americans don't do. we just blindly click for the democrats and we hate the republicans, and there are good republicans. there are republicans who have done amazing things for the african-american community, but there need to be a lot more. >> to president trump directly reached out to african-americans during the campaign. what do you have to lose? you remember that. he now touts the unemployment rate. isn't there something to that? >> that kind of outreach to me is disrespectful. what do you have to lose? that's not outreach. you need to go talk to people. you need to engage people. >> black unemployment, i should say. >> i would say that is the obama rollover effect. president trump has sustained it and he gets credit for that. it's not increasing.

and it's here, but we know that those numbers have a lot behind them. many people stopped looking for jobs. there is underemployment. there are educated african-americans with all the degrees they were told to get that still face race discrimination, gender discrimination, et cetera. we have a long way to go. >> texas. republican line. this is jim. >> hi, jim. >> caller: hello, am i on? >> you're on. go ahead. >> caller: oh, i wanted to ask ms. nelson, what did she think about the 2018 elections? you know, here, i don't know why, but i kind of think of texas as being a purple state. i run into just as many democrats as i run into republicans. and all the democrats got the idea that the republican party is dead. and that they're going to sweep the state in 2018. i would really, really love to hear what you have to say and i'll listen. thank you.

>> that's a great question. texas is my second home. i'm down there a lot, have a lot of friends down there and love it, but i tell you what, i saw an article where senator cruz's opponent is raising quite a bit of money. >> dana o'rourke. >> millions of dollars. >> it says he has raised $13.2 million in the race so far. >> that's a lot of money for a challenger for a sitting u.s. senator. texas, again, if you go back to the dixiecrat era, john f. kennedy and lbj going down on that fateful trip to dallas in 1963, it was a democrat state. my home state of virginia, we're trending blue now. once a reliably red, you know, i remember the days of george allen and others. it was a red state. it's no longer a red state. so i think that the democrats are going to do very well in the elections. i think it's an anti-trump vote. we saw that in virginia in 2017. people who had never run for

office put their name on a ballot and they were able to win because people just went in and they didn't like republicans. barbara comstock's going to be in the fight for her life at home, by the way. >> republican line. this is ohio. danny, go ahead. >> caller: i'd like to ask you what you think of what martin luther king would have thought of the american civil liberties union going across the country taking every venue of jesus christ off of the public square, the ten commandments, which western civilization was based upon, nativity scenes, taking those down, taking down crosses, you know, doing that. they did that then they told us -- now they're teaching the kids in the school, oh, well, we never were a christian nation. when you destroy the evidence -- if i destroy the evidence in a court of law, i guess that would be, you know, i would be thrown in jail for that, but, you know, this that's a different story. then also i notice how they're

going after american history. they take robert e. lee's statue down. they take stonewall jackson. by the way, both who were opposed to slavery. robert e. lee was -- now they're going after william mckinley, thomas jefferson. you know, the thing about it is, you know, it's sad to me, you know, i feel like as a white person that i'm the one being discriminated against now that they hate. >> we'll leave that thought there. >> let me first say, i hear you and i spoke to this earlier, where a lot of white americans are in a place where they feel like the country that they grew up in and that they understand is changing, and it is. to his point, though, let me say that i agree with you. you know, congress starts every day with a prayer. the senate and the house pray every day.

our kids in school can't do that. what would dr. king think about the aclu? well, i think dr. king in his time, the aclu was very pivotal to helping civil rights and key cases, but i think that i'm in agreement with you that there seems to be an overreach, which is why i wrote "e pluribus one," because i wanted americans to understand that the religious liberty cause is as important as the second amendment, the first amendment, the free press, et cetera. it's critical to who we are. our founding fathers fled tyrants who imposed their religion. killed people if they weren't catholics or protestants. we're a judeo-christian nation. to say that we aren't founded upon those principles, it's on our money, it's on our documents, it's all over our constitution. i quoted jefferson talking about those unalienable rights granted by god himself.

that simply means rights that no man can give and no man can take away. so i hear you. i understand. and i think dr. king would be someone who would be concerned as a pastor, as a man of faith on the creep and how churches have really become enemies in the sense of if they're not pc, it is a problem. so i think you raise a good point and i think, again, that's one of those issues we as a nation need to talk about and we need to have respect for one another, that some of us are firmly rooted in our faith and that's critical to us and how we live and others may not see it that way and that's okay, too. >> the book again, e pluribus one." sophia nelson, the author. she's a journalist. i want to show you a poll that was recently taken from people. 77% saying that major news outlets report fake news. how do you respond to that, a, as a journalist and something in this world. >> if i tell you something

enough and keep telling you, you're going to start believing it. president trump has done a very effective job of fake news and quantifying this term, and has been supported by fox and other outlets who share his point of view. and they reach a lot of homes. this issue of sinclair, and i assume that's where we're going with this, sinclair broadcasting and having journalists read from a script that fake news is dangerous to our democracy, well, so is authoritarian practices like taking a free press and telling the free press that they have to read a script in order to be employed by your network or wink and a nod, because if i say no, i'm probably going to lose my job. if i'm a young journalist, i'm impressional. maybe i'm not tom brokaw, i can't say, hey, i'm not doing that. the point is, again, go back to your documents, america. this is not okay. our founders said that given the choice, thomas jefferson talked about this a lot, that any person that made a speech condemning the free press, he said you're looking at a tyrant, and i'm paraphrasing, of course,

but jefferson felt very strongly among adams and washington and the other founding fathers, madison, of course, that that free press was really at the center of who we are as a nation. because the press' job is to keep a watch on the government, to inform the people when something is awry or they need to get engaged in something. the press needs to be left unfetterred. >> let me read you a little bit of the sinclair broadcast response to this story, saying it's ironic that we would be attacked for members promoting our journalistic initiative for fair and objective reporting and for specifically asking the public to hold our newsrooms accountable. our local stations keep our audiences' trust by staying focuses on a fact-based reporting and clearly identifying commentary. >> again, to a pop list who is not well-informed and people -- the local news, particularly if you get out into rural america and southern america and the

midwest, that -- people don't watch the stuff you and i watch in the beltway. they watch their local anchor. if my local anchor begins to tell me that there is fake news out there and there is somebody i need to be afraid of, i'm going to believe it, and that's the challenge -- >> and we take you live now to the cross town concourse in memphis, tennessee, where civil rights leaders past and present will talk about the influence of martin luther king jr. on their work and share some stories of their own social activism. this is part of a series of events taking place in memphis, commemorating the reverend king's assassination 50 years ago on this day.

>> say that again, paul? >> tell them to make ten hot. >> make ten hot? >> yes. >> i think they -- >> there. it's on. it wasn't. >> he has it. >> you've got ten? okay. give it back to her. >> testing. >> the mike is hot. >> hello?