define in your view, a deep state of shadow government and swamp. the same thing, or how do you differentiate? >> my terminology is it deep state, others could call it the shadow government because they affect their own bureaucratic wishes rather than the wishes for the people, electing donald trump for instance. donald trump has termed at the swamp, this is probably the term that most americans immediately understand because washington was at one point like that. the creatures coming out of the swamp are biting and fighting for turf. >> watch afterwards sunday night at 9 pm eastern on c-span 2's book tv. catherine boudreau joins us, a reporter for food and agriculture. what are the key details of the farm bill and

how long is this authorization for federal farm program funding ? >> the bulk of the sweeping legislation is geared towards the supplemental nutrition program, or food stamps, it is the most controversial aspect of getting the bill passed. nutrition accounts for 80% of the farm bill. the chairman, mike conaway, has proposed imposing stricter work requirements between 5-7 million people that are able- bodied adults and enrolled in the program. then, of course, the other 20% of the bill is spent on commodity subsidies for farmers and the crop insurance program that they pay into, but their premiums are subsidized and that is where the government comes in, that will pay out when there is a disaster, and natural disasters like hurricanes or wildfires that we saw last year. of course, there is also assistance with implementing

land conservation practices and those are the key aspects. >> you mentioned snap, the food stamp program and the fact that the farm bill gets quite a bit of bipartisan support. this seems to be's leading parties along party lines, tell us more about the issue? >> the program has about 42 million recipients, it has agriculture chairman, mike conaway, wants to impose stricter requirements on a subset of the people with the program. between 5-7 million people would be subject and have to work at least 20 hours per week or be enrolled in a job training program. states would be mandated to offer slots in the program, they would save probably $9

billion over 10 years on flashing food stamp benefits. some of the money would be spent towards state work program . that is controversial because there is a lack of data on the success of these programs and they estimate that it would take about one decade to get this up and running and offer all of these swats that are required for people eligible. democrats pretty much have rejected the proposal. during the committee they did not vote for it at all. it was an advance from the committee party lines and usually of farmville is passed with the coalition in the middle of world democrats and republicans and urban lawmakers that do care about the snap program, but do not necessarily

have farmers in the district. that seems to be broken and i think we can expect that the farm bill will have to be passed in the house with mostly gop members. >> taking a quick look at the article, here is the headline, conaway races to nail down farmville votes before the debate. as mentioned, they will need support from mostly republicans, how does that break down, democrats have been pushing members to oppose it, what are republicans saying to their team? >> house leadership is certainly selling this as a way to get a component for overhauling welfare programs. something that energizes the midterms. we have this not necessarily falling on deaf ears, but taking quite a bit of persuasion to get much of the d -- gop onboard, the house freedom caucus, and the chairman, marc meadows, he said

there are concerns about the work requirements and the agricultural components like the dairy program with small dairy producers in his district . >> i think they are looking to offer amendments to the bill in order to potentially sway their support in favor of the bill. it is possible that rural democrats could peel off and vote but it remains to be seen and is hard to gauge at this point. there are members of the republican committee in need of persuading as well. that is something that the chairman is working on as well. the boat is coming up quickly. >> president trump hosted a meeting with the house and senate agricultural chairs and agricultural secretaries, sonny perdue, what came out of that

and to think the house or senate version would change because of the white house meeting? >> i think the white house meeting between chairman conaway and pat roberts and the secretary of purdue, they were talking farmville specifics and conaway said after the meeting that they did not really talk about the ported veto threat, this was in reports earlier this week which was walked back by the director of legislative affairs, marc short. and then after the meeting they said that trump is a strong proponent of the work requirements being proposed in snap. i think that is maybe a little bit of pressure on some of the gop in the house, like, the white house is on board, maybe fall in line, i think, at the end of the day, the house

and senate does need to go to conference. it will be interesting to see if that version can get back to the house. and pat roberts has said he is not interested in doing a large overhaul snap, it is challenging to get 60 votes for something like that, of course, that begs the question, if conaway is having trouble getting support for this version , can he get a more moderate version through, democrats will have to come on board at that point and the ad committee has been soured throughout the process. . we are keeping an eye on the presidential tweet

at the housing and urban development. lisa write of the national fair housing alliance will join us for that. and weekly standard association editor will talk about his cover story on the rise of homelessness in seattle. and jeremy in yucca mountain, live at seven eastern. join the discussion. >> testimony from commerce secretary wilbur ross on the budget request for his department. he spoke about the census, rural access to high speed broad band. this senate appropriation subcommittee hearing is two