future. >> i think it's important that the fcc and congress considers infrastructure like proceedings and other concepts that broad band is and has been determined to be a matter of important inf infrastructure to our country and to natioicy and athat's change, because typically we think of infrastructure as roads, bridges, railways et cetera, which are all very important and need to be helped. but you cannot survive today as a business, as an individual, as someone working from home in our economy without having a robust broad band experience. >> watch the communicators tonight at 8:00 eastern on c-span 2. and now, julio borhays administrator of the venezuela national -- mr. borhays discusses efforts within

venezuela to suppress opposition to president nicholas meduro among other issues, this is 90 minutes. good morning, everybody, i'm glad you're here. when we start events, when we have outside guests like you, we have a safety officer, if we hear a voice, we'll say follow his lead, he'll take us down to the alley, we'll take two left-hand turns and a right hand

turn, we'll go over to national geographic and there's a great show right now, and i'll pay for the ticket, nothing's going to happen, but if it does, follow michael's instructions. we kind of getting ready back a in the room. i said there are an awful lot of americans who talk about courage, but i said i can't said how aweed i am for you and what venezuela'sas endured. i can't think of a more dramatic time and a more dramatic set of events that gets far too little focus in america. ri that all of anwas a disaster 90% of the people in a state were living below the poverty line, would we tolerate that? would that not be the first story every night in the news?

when the average venezuelan has now lost 24 pounds because of starvation? why is that not the lead story every night in america? and these are our brothers and sisters. so close to us. and, you know, to have a country of first world sophistication slip backwards in decay is just breathtaking, and we're not outraged in this country the way we should be. this is crucial and not enough americans know about it. and so the -- i'm so grateful that the opposition leader, i don't know how to call it, a hero, julio is here to discuss what's going on in venezuela, right now the only story in the news right now is north korea.

this is just as important, and i'm grateful you're here for us. because we need to bring this bright spotlight in washington sharply on what's the tragedy that's unfolding in venezuela, so i want to say thank you for coming. to get started, michael, i'm going to turn to you, you're going to offer some preliminary remarks, he's going to get it started for real, i just had to get it off my chest, be i'm glad that you are here to focus on this with us. julio, thank you for being here. >> now thank you very much for those words, it's important that you're with us this morning to open this event which is really one of the most important events we have done on venezuela that we have done over the last two years.

we have really tried to shine the light on venezuela in lots of different ways. we have done this along with a lot of different people. mark snyder, who is sitting up here today, mark ferestein, we have had an incredible team working the venezuela issue. the day after was the initial focus of our work over the first year, the day after seems to be further away. we're hoping that it's going to be closer with the passing of the weeks and months. our fus over these last few months has been more on the humanitarian situation in venezuela and we have a number of initiatives there. i'm not going to waste more time talking about our venezuela program. i want to turn the floor over to the three gentlemen sitting in front of you, but before doing

that, i would like to turn to landon lumis, he was the director of economics for vice president pence, both vice president pence and president trump have been very active on the issue of venezuela and that engagement has been very beneficial. we wanted to have landon to say a few words before we turn the floor over to the panel. landon? >> thank you, michael. thank you to csas for inviting to participate in organizing this event. i would like to recognize julio as well, the vice presiden enjoyed meeting you in venezuela again, speaking with your colleagues. he came away from that encounter really empressed by your authority, your ability to speak to a broad global public about

the issues in venezuela. it's an important moment now that we share our sense of outrage and i can assure everyone that the vice president and the president do share that sense of outrage, but being able to connect with and highlight the experiences of leaders like julio is very important and we appreciate the role that csis is playing today to do that. venezuela is a top priority for this administration. when vice president pence traveled throughout latin america last year in august, he talked about a sense of urgency. the problems in venezuela have been on a slow motion crisis essentially for a listen tiong . what this administration has said is this will not stand, there's a sense of urgency in our polyith venezuela that is as important as consistent as when the vice president traveled through the region last august. what's happened since then is the sense of urgency has become

a sense of frustration. frustration because despite a historic, you can northeastern, global, you know sense of what's happening in venezuela is unacceptable, despite the consensus that's built up around the region, we still have in venezuela, a political situation that's devastating to its people. and that sense of frustration is where we were on that the 19th, i think that as my colleague juan cruz this morning said that the meduro administration missed an opportunity to by not asking the regime to postpone the el t elections to commit to a free and fair credible election process, so make decisions based on the good and well-being of the venezuelan people, the meduro administration missed an opportunity when they held those elections.

so as expected on thmay 20th, a dictator won theelecon, he got to stack the deck in his favor. but it is interesting to note that he got half as many votes that he publicly declared that he expected. he set a record for abstention, and that's more than double the rate for the last election. and that's a country that has a proud heritage of civic participation and engagement. so clearly there's discontent. but the cynical use of food as a weapon in an electoral process is a decisive factor while the venezuelan population is enduring such misery. the united states since -- you know, for years has maintained a steady drum beat of pressure, a campaign to bring the full weight of economic and diplomatic pressure to bear to

bring about the peaceful transformation ofdemocracy, the restore ration of democracy, and we will continue to do that. avenue the may 24th election, the -- for being corrupt officials that are aiding and abetting corruption that is undermining the well-being of the venezuelan country and it's people. on monday, we issued an executive order that further tightened the financial t in place to ensure that the y corrupt regime does not have access to the u.s. financial system. since the beginning, we have sanctioned more than 70 venezuelan represented individuals under four different executive orders. and it's important to remind all of us to highlight an aspect of the ska sanctions policy which is not always addressed, what is the purpose of the sanctions policy, why does the united states use

sanctions? that's to change behavior. the sanctions themselves are a function of the decisions and the choices that the meduro regime is making today, if those things chain, if bavr removed. and that's an important concept as we think about the way forward. ultimately, the way forward, the solution lie s with the venezuea people. the ultimate arbiters of the venezuela democracy are the people themselves. this is an important moment for the venezuela people to think how to participate and support and be a part of the process of building internation pressure which has reached a new wleflev. the u.s. and the world will stand with the venezuelan people. we have the oes general assembly happening next week where we

plan to work across the region and the world for the release of political prisoners to address the crisis and respect the national assembly. this project has the full attention of the leadership here in the united states. working across interagency to build a coalition of partners-tpartners who want to work and restore democracy to venezuela. thank you. >> thank you, landon. thank you, michael, thank you all for being here. julio borges is a lawyer and politician. he founded venezuela's largest opposition party and served as national coordinator since the beginning of 2000. mr. borges is currently serving his third term in congress, in miranda, part of the capital of

caracas and venezuela's national assembly. and also the president of 2017 to 2018. borges has become one of the major opposition leaders in venezuela and a broad advocating for the restoration of democracy and in calling out the human rights violations that are systematically taking place in venezuela. mr. borges started law. in one of the best universities, not saying that because i also wept to that same school. andreas vega catholic university. and oxford university. with that briefly, mr. borges, i want to thank you for coming to see us here. we're delighted to have you

here. and now the floor is yours, thank you. terrupon moises, i for this preciate it. thank you, michael, landon and my friend mark. well, i would like two part of the position. the first part i would like to underline some issues that i think are very important in order to understand how venezuela regime is a trap for the security of the region and the democracy all over the world. and secondly, i would like to share with you our view about the future and the role that you have to play in order to speak to the change in venezuela.

well, first of all, i think what's going on in venezuela is a connection, a real connection, between cuba, nicaragua and venezuela. venezuela has played a role to mainly to finance all of the movement, extreme movement, all over latin america. in the recent past, there was a lot of mue to the oil revenue. but now it has, in a different siation right now. but even though we have such a hard crisis in venezuela, venezuela government is still paying the bills from countries like cuba. two weeks ago, we had the news that venezuelan government used $400 million in order to buy oil for cuba. in this very moment, in which we

are facing this huge crisis, venezuela and madurofer to get the money and provide money to cuba. and not to use it in a different issue. that's very clear how a real solution in venezuela would lead to a real solution also in cuba and nicaragua as well. the for me, it's very clear that even the social and political manifestation that we are seeing in nicaragua are the result that venezuela has not money in order to provide funds to nicara d all of the social unrest that nicaragua is facing is still to the weak capacity of the venezuelan government in order to provide money for nicaragua and cuba as well. there is a third actor which is

russia. russia probably has not the strength in order to maintain a venezuela as it did with c in the past. but for me, it's very clear that russ wants to play a role in order to use venezuela to take part in the region and decentralize the region to the conflict of venezuela. and some has important business in oil and gas as we have seen in the recent agreements of venezuela. then, for the point of view of the venezuelan government right now, i guess that their main expectation is to wait in order to see a change in the region. if you see a -- i hope you don't -- you will see

permanently that all of the hope of venezuela is about change in mexico, change in colombia. this is a very dangerous situation because in my opinion, there is a very real hope in venezuela's government in waiting for the change i the region, order to break all of the alliance that exists surrounding venezuela democracy. and this is a real danger that we are facing this very year. and for them, it's crucial to obtain a new landscape in latin america in order to break the consensus that exists around the problem of venezuela democracy and human rights. at the same time,hes a -- after the so-called election, we

can expect an increase in the number of people going out of venezuela, immigration. and this is a real threat for the region as well. right now, almost 3 or 4 million venezuela people have left the country. and this number will grow. and this is a very difficult situation for the peoples around venezuela. and we expect that this number due to the political and social crisis will increase. and we will produce also destabilization in the region. and as far as the old revenue decreased, the opportunity to open illegal activities such as narcotic traffic or organized crime is growing in venezuela.

a month ago i had an opportunity to have a very interesting meeting with a german official. and he told me that the problem of drug traffic is not only related to groups in latin america, such as movement in colombia and venezuela. but also the drug traffic has to do with the pass for latin america, africa and then to europe. and the german government has detected that also the money from the drug traffic goes to islamic groups that they gain money through drug traffic. through the region. so, we are talking here, and this is increasing in venezuela, about a global negative business that has to do with guerilla movement in latin america. destabilization movement in latin america but also radical

islamic movement in africa and also in europe. so, there's a common threat that has to do with the open use of the drug business in venezuela right now. another issue that we have to expect about venezuela in the future is the use of conflict as a defense mechanism for maduro. it's very clear, that as far as he's involved in more troubles, internal troubles, he will look for troubles abroad in order to keep power in venezuela. that is the case, for example, in honduras. that is the case, for example, in mexico and colombia. it's very clear that there is right now a corruption business related to maduro's governmt with the food, the famous clap. he buys the food from mexico and

some from chile and colombia, after they made the business with the people in mexico, colombia or chile. they help the groups. that is the case in mexico and coloma as well. and is the case of different movement in latin america. so, the use not only of drugs, but also corruption, in order to fund radical movement in the re region, it will be an increased practice of maduro, because he would like to have different problems from neela. and use conflict all over latin america as a mechanism for the defense of his own situation as well. honduras is another case i'd like to underline. another issue i'd like to

underline, what is maduro's philosophy, before all of the crisis he has created? >> i guess his only position would be to resist. that would be his only position in front of all of the crisis. ans facing a raise. as you know, we have hyper inflation. we have production, we have external fuse against the old industry. we h huge military internal crisis. we have the money internal crisis, we have the external pressure, and maduro's answer to thoserises would be on resistance, not change. two days ago with the european ambassador in caracas. and he has an unique position for them.

he told them he would like to be treated as cuba. they don't want to be attentioned. they don't want different treatment, but the position of madu maduro's government for europe was we would be like to be like castro and cuba. and they consider themsels as the new cuba. but with maduro's half idea, is that economic change in cuba could produce political change in cuba dprirc different from venezuela. in venezuela, only the economic change could produce freedom, is the only way around. right now in their heads, their minds only to receive -- they don't want to change the system, they don't want to change the economy, they just want to coidate cuba's sysm in order to be empowered.

then, regarding a position, i would like to be very clear that in this recent years, we have done almost everything. we went to the parliament election in 2015. we won. and the government shut down the parliament. and we used our mechanism in the constitution to call for referendum. the government has stopped the call for referendum. then we went to the street and had 130 days of registration. reportedly, with an actual number of people who die for the violence of the government. then we 20 the regional elections. then we 20 the dialogue, the chief of the position of dialogue, and the woman closed the door in our face. so, we have done everything, elections, dialogue,

demonstrations. constitutional mechanism. so, we have done everything. right now, we're in a situation in which we did a real damage to the government. the government never expected to have so low an amount of gold on election. and it's very, very important to underline that venezuela's people's dignity is so high, that even though it order to have something to eat, you have to be on your knees before the rnment even though that people express by their dignity with the silence of not participating in the election. and i'm very proud that venezuelan people show that amount of dignity before venezuelan government. maduro was surprised about the

outcome of may the 20th. right now, more than six countries denied that election. the g7, the g20. the group, the united states, right now we have all alliances with democracies all over the world but we need to strengthen our external pressure in order to mash external mesh and certainly pressure and make an outcome. a democratic outcome this year. for me, it's very important to transit to me, to emphasize that landon is very clear about it and vice president pence as well. that we are in a realtiming, the real opportunity for change in venezuela. maduro has created so many crisis, different in economic issues, in the social issues.

in the military issues. in the certainly issues. in my opinion, he wouldn't be able to deal with all of the crisis. people always ask, why is maduro in power? what happened that this guy is in power after all of the destruction of venezuela? well, in order to understand this in historical terms. in venezuela, there is a mixture of ingredients which are different from other countries. we have oil. and we have army and we have the cuban regime behind. the combination of these three elements, army force, oil and the cuba regime produce that the change in venezuela which is happening is happening in a small motion. it's like in slow motion moving.

but it's happening. and we have a great outcome. and i guess this year has to be this year. in order to ta it apt. and have a conversation with you. what about our position? we have our main challenge. our mnhaen unity. but not only political unity because it is not opposition versus the government. we areuilding which means behold society against the regime, the church, the university. entrepreneurs, the union and political parties. if it wants to be an expression of maduro and that society, it's against the authoritarian

regime. we have a second challenge which is to produce a different approach to the army force. we should say to the army force that they are part of the future. that they are part of democracy. that they are partf a development. that we've been looking to the myor revenge on the country that we have to build together a new and unique country with freedom and instutions. our third challenge as a position is to express to the world that we have a plan. that we know how to deal with crisis. that we know how to change economy. at we have to change institutions in order to have a democratic society. that we want an open society and open venezuela, in order to make a huge cultura a economic and social exchange with the world.

that we know how to deal with the crisis. fourth, that change -- our fourth challenge, that change is unavoidable. that change is going to happen. we e not doomed as cubans in order waiting for decades for change. thataduro is weak and we are strong. that democracies all over the world, and this is demonstration of that with the venezuela people, with their dig thnity a their rights that change will happen very soon in venezuela. and the fifth challenge that we have, this is something that you also have to help us, is to show to the rest of the world the deep humanitarian crisis in venezuela. that this is smis something tha

to change consciousness all over the world. what is. happening in venezuela, in my opinion, is not comparing with any crisht now in world. and i guess that within these long 2rtraditions as michael sa about venezuela and the united states, i'm sure that there is a real compassion about what's going on in government. i have three meetings with vice president preparatience, and i he has a personal commit. and when i heard your opinions and your voice about venezuela, i could feel that it's not only a political term, it's not only a political problem, it's a human crisis. it's a human crisis that touched your heart. that touch your soul. at touch the history between information and america.

and i'm very grateful about your invenezuela. what's going on and it will be something to be very proud in the future, when we reach change in venezuela, to tell to our sons and our grandsons and all our descendants, the role that played america, the role that played latin america. the role that played united states. in fighting for premium and dignity in my country. so, i'm very grateful for that. i'm very grateful for that opportunity. and most of the challenge that we're accomplished asn order al with the threat that right now maduro's regime would present for not only the region, not only for the united states, but also for democracy all over the ank yory muc

>> thank you, mr. borges. can i call you julio now? now, we're going to have about 20 to 25 minutes of conversation between mark and julio, before we open it up to q & a, i'm sure many of you have questions so be patient, we're going to get there. first of all, seeing the government and nongovernment sectors. in the obama administration he served as a special director and senior director for western affairs. and backup policy and policy toward cuba and orchestrated the president's trips to cuba and argentina. and also the development of the

peace initiative. and an advance that deepened the u.s. cooperation between mexico and canada. very full background on the whole region, mark. you consulted with and serves as a senior adviser. thank you, mark, for being with us. you had julio's remarks. we're all curious to get your thoughts and reaction. >> well, first, thank you very much for the invitation and an honor to join julio and you, moises. it's always a task to follow julio, for smianyone who is mor than informed than julio. i k him for many years, we

met 15 years ago, i was a consultant for rcb which is the radio and tv network shut down over time. dr. hamre spoke earlierbout how courageous julio is. and in my 35-plus years of working around the region and the world, i've met many people who are followed to democracy rights. i've never known anybody as personal as anyone. he has a beautiful family. and i'm confident when the history of this period in the final chapter will be a good one. ial agree that change is unavoidable, he said. julio when go down as one of the heros in this period. michael spokes earlier about ciss effort. and moises did a phenomenal job.

in the last two years i was in the wte houtwo years, the obama administration. and i did spent more money on obama than any other issue. i think the thing is true. and the regime has held on this long, despite the highest inflation rate in the world. despite the deepest economic attraction in the world. sp highest murder rate in the world. despite a significant set of u.s. sanctions and sanctions by other countries and the domestic pressure as well, that julio outlined. in terms of the national effort, landon spoke very well to this. of course, united states has

taken the initiative of sanctionin 7different. with officials engaged in corruption and red ttributions. and drug trafficking. and this morning, with regard to the exotic, there's one of several in the house. and of course, sanctions from canada, but eu and panama and switzerland as well. and landon laid out the strategy which i think is very sound which is basically to try to change behavior between the maduro regime. this morning, the idea is about punish and create behavior. the idea is to create fissures within the regime. and signaling it's part of providing incentive to distance

out. not only is it important to send a signal to those sanctioned. and if they take certain steps in advantage,hey can avoid getting 0 than list. now, we've seen some defections with the regime, to be honest with you, w have not seen tit. my understanding is, obviously, there are broader sanctions beyond the individual, but the united states can impose. and they have sew the trump administration has imposed se rhetoric on sanctions. the invitation, i think, to go too far. there's a lot of discussion about the possibility, the oil embargo, for example. one, they did this morning, a whole series of steps. a series of entermediate.

and the company is collapsing on its own or collapsing because of the mismanagement of the maduro regime. we've seen oil truck jt collap. and then with regard to an oil embargo which could potentially have an impact on gasoline prices in the united states. i think there are more steps that other countries and the united states can take. oes is coming up. i think it would be an appropriate move and send a very, very powerful gnal. venezuelan government pretends they don't care about that. they do, a lot. we saw what happened when they were suspended and bringing it

to this meeting. and there's only one thing preventing venezuela from being suspended from the oes, and that's the caribbean -- i sved during the clinton years. at the time the caribbean bloc was a set of 13 countries that were always there, providing their votes when it came to issues of democracy. and they have effectively been bout out. venezuela will have all kinds. and principles. a great effort now to try to encourage work in countries to break to provi the votes and finally be able to suspend venezuela from it. the oes is going to publish a

report regarding crimes admitted in venezuela. that court will be referred to the icc which then can conduct that of individuals responsible fo crimes against humanity. i think it would be helpful if other countries match what panama was doing. it's impressive. panama is the only latin america country taking action. and the limagroup, that's great. but one would have evened up on that one. despite all of the efforts, it's not clear that international pressure would be sufficient. to change behavior. and to promote a democratic transition in venezuela. and i think especially if you consider that there are

countervailing factors as well. there's russia and china, which continue to provide support to the regime and julio referenced that, tt'russia, in particular. in what we've seen in the past few years there are a times domestic pressure and at times international pressure. they often have been in sync. a couple years ago, julio outlined this, frankly, at the time, national position was very really. and when the referendum was cancelled then the referee jumped in and oversaw the talks which ultimately failed because there was no national pressure. now, we're seeing a lot of international pressure and one of the tragedies there, the

venezuela people have been demobilized. this is not a criticism, it's an obligation. people send their days looking for food, looking for medicine. maybe they're going into exile. planning their exit. maybe they're afraid because they have used violence before. they're afraid to go to jail or be tortured. and i think we're reached the point that many people in venezuela are waiting for military coup. they're waiting for military invasion. and that is not going to happen. i think this is critical because the regime needs to know they need to feel the pressure. and i would end by posing a question to julio. does he agree with what i said, but take issue on any part of it.

you spoke about this as well about the importance of creating the internal to match the external. what skind of steps can you do o to help that. >> i do say, mark, and someone who knows me are well as a servant, we're thank for all of the jobs in venezuela. this is part of the timing tragedy. where we have enough internal and domestic pressure, there was -- the beginning of international pressure. and there's not much in bo. right now, the decision of venezuela, many people come from venezuela here knows that the possibility to at least

organize, or to call for demonstrations, for example, right now, it's very limited. and all political accesses leave under real fear. and modern fear panic because the government have no limits to do whatever they want. but i guess the only window of opportunity has to do with social issues. regarding high pressure and regular people live under fear. i guess the situation could become more dramatic, more dramatic than right now which it's a tragedy, it can be more dramatic that both fear and go

to demonstrate their real feeling. it's very curious, but we see the people's behavior on may 20th, the so-called election, it was a very cleve to protect without violence. they depend on them for food. although that positions people to know 2% and to know to go to vote. and i'm very sure that in a limited situation, people can overcome fear and make differences because it's within o it a as if in nicaragua, no one expected nicaragua's demonstration and riots and it

happens. it has to do with a nation. so, tonswer yourquestion, mark, i think we should expect the internal pressure coming from theocial and political play -- a role to play inhis situation is to make easier the organization to people to demonstrate for their rights. >> thank you, julio, thank you, mark. on the same line, i know this is a very important issue, i think i agree with you both, domestic and international pressures are needs to see any change in venezuela. we don't know what's going to happen the day after the elections. nicolas maduro was elected. but i haven't really seen yet a plan moving forward.

could you describe for us what kind of roots do the venezuela people have, knowing to engage on this for restoring democracy? what kind of plan can they engage in to mobilize the pressure that he's seeing. >> well, it's a two-part. we're in an actual situation. actualsituation. it's a situatio you have to find strength versus strength. there is no legal constitutional, institutional, b battlefield. it'sre are maduro led to venezuela to love the jungle as

we are leaving right now in that position. we have challenged a nation about unity, about the message to the army before and the plan to the future during the military crisis, we have to keep the idea of electn as the -- as the final goal. for building a solution in venezuela. and this is not -- aa realistic remote situation. we're aware we're facing a very tough situation. in many of the scenarios of venezuela. we have to undergo a coup.

the final goal has beens to elections in venezuela. we have to be very clear about that. one thing of change, change of the actual and common steaks. and the other thing is what is the final goal that we are looking and building for. which is the free expression of theed have people. and for people in venezuela and abro abroad, it seems so awkward that we're talking about the election. it has a real argument, we don't have an election, maybe we thought you. we said that to the so-called electio elections. thats this is the role i have to play democratic leaders in venezuela and democratic leaders who support real electns in venezuela. but not in a naive way.

but under the role consciousness of being very aware that you're facing a dictatorship in venezuela. it's the weren't why the implements, about the humanitarian crisis, about our the approach to the national-s international community. but with the final goal, elections and freedom for the people, no matter what could cost, this change in venezuela, it would be a social explosion. it would be a military action. it would be an organization with a note. with the final goal that is a democratic election in venezuela. >> thank you, julio.

there was an attorney after may 20th -- there was something that happened that we have not even her before. >> and now, so far, they cond n condemned the international assembly in not recognizing them. they condemn all of the institutions. for maduro, we had that recommendation as a president. now, there's a debate going on, what type of legitimateness does he have. is he the president of venezuela or no longer the president of venezuela. the supreme court rating in bogota, in the parliament of colombia. it is different snieinstitution trying to operate from abroad. can we get these thoughts, how do you see these issues,

lecy o it. >> well, i said that we are living a factual situatn. maduro is now a legitimate president. but is there -- it doesn't have to do with his authority or his democratic outcome. it's a dictatorship that is using and kidnapping power. and venezuela people have done, as i mentioned, everything in order to produce change in venezuela. i think a crucial actor has to do with the army force. one of my concerns is that after

may the 20th, the name, the principal, any means of maduro and cuba, venezuela how has resource. and leaving aft may 20th, i'm sure that maduro and cubans are thinking about how to destroy army forces. this is something to call attention to democracying all over the world because this is a last institution that we have, in order to resto democracy in veneela. and they are, right now, producing a huge repression on the army force. and this operation is led by cuban officials. and it's very clear that after, may 20th, that would be the new trophy that maduro wants to show

to the cubans. the destruction of the army force in venezuela. anything different from that right now? a government in the exile. or institutions in the exile. they can help in order t call his attention. but in the urgency that we are leaving right now, venezuela, these problems about the almost deduction of the army force has to be one of the most important issues we to have to put on the political and public. >> there's a lot of discussion on the army as a potential democratic savior, if you will. when i look at the venezuela armed forces, i guess what i is he is a force that's been indoctrinated and purged over the years.

indoauoctrinated in thinking. and changed and framed by the cubans. and the worse how it's engaged. engaged in other activity. i look at them and they seem to say, unlikelyocrati saor, if you will. where am i wrong? obviously, no force is monoth,nd i ask that part of the an. >> what about the others? >> yeah. well, you see right now in the last two or three weeks, there are more than 2 0 o00 gun offic killed. they thought these gun officials

were part of the tourista almost force. but the fact is the people don't like what's going on in venezuela. don't like the cuban force. and it's very, very important that the new elite of young people have that reaction for democratic and constutna behavior in venezuela. and for me it produces me a lot of money that there is a moral risk as well, within this destruction that we're living in venezuela. and mainly about young people in the army force. we're not talk two or three guys. we're talking more than 200 officials. so, we are not in front of this small constoleation

constillation. it's the whole solution telling everybody, we don't want to be cuba. we have to pay attention to that situation, which is happening right now. >> thank you, julio. questions before we turn to the audience. sanction, you mentioned it has been the sanction policy. have sanctions been effective in your point of view? and what else can be done to increase its effectiveness, or worst, the behavior of change that landon was describing for us. >> yeah. well, as i told you i was the chief o opposition in the dominican republic. and doing it for months. and if sanctions were not working, the government talked about sanctions 9 out of 10 that

they saved. it was amazing. every single section was sanction. we have to move sanctions. we don't want more sanctions. we're blames for the sanctions, everything. so sanctions aren't working. that is an important element not only for punishment but for the regime. it's amazing when there is a rumor that new sanctions are coming from europe or from united states, this big guy that you see screaming in the tv about revolution, they try to say to everyone they know, do you know of the sanctions. they're full of the sanctions and they're working. and to break the system or to leak to a real negotiation, they

have no doubt about the efficiency of sanctions at this very moment. all of the problem of hyper inflation, the problem of couptrevenue. the problem as international it has to be blamed on maduro's regime. it has nothing to do with sanctions. we have to make it very clear, the government wants to blame sanctions on everything that's happened in venezuela. i have so many research. as good as mark's research that instead people din by the argument, that is very clear that the enoc and soc

situation h to do only with maduro. maduro tried to sell during the last six years that the old living in venezuela had to do with the economic work. and they repeated right now, currently, and in survey, people who believe that the economic worth was the origin about the social crisis, it was not more than 13%. so, why not saying we have to be hopeful about the change in venezuela. is and this is very important is that there is a real change to venezuela people. i remember one of the surveys that mark did in venezuela about destabilization, methodation, and it was amazing at that time, 90% were out and they were

happy. we like more in the private sector to the state. right now, the support for it is 3%. 3%. from 90% to 3%. what is important, of these facts, is that people had to change. people had once entrepreneur. people was investments. people was trade. people was democracy. they don't buy the cuban project anymore. so, this is a very important issue that shows that venezuelan people really ready for change and right now. >> you've all been very patient, please before you ask a question, identify yourself and your name and the affiliation, keep the question short, please. >> hi, how are you, i'm from the

brookings institution. i want to push back to what he said. he asked about the strategy. you talk about the day after. well, the day after,here's going e election. i think wee all agree on that. there's a little bit there that you see on the outside. you mentioned i want to be by the question two. i'm the economy, i will ask more questions than i promising. one you're saying there is a slow motion change happening. i'm wondering what's the evidence on that. is there something that you may know, you can say it i guess. i would love to know that there is a change happening. in terms of social control, they're very strolng. if there's no strategy, why is

it tried? you tried election -- why is this tried that will unify the position. i believe it's not an option. you need to pn arodhe strategy. and what it looks like with the vacuum. having said all of this, i know this is a very duff posititough. but even hearing you say it is worth your thoughts. >> thank you. let's do that first. and mark feel free to comment. >> there are a lot of evidence of change. a lot. and let me say this, i don't see no example of no evidence of change. you know. if you see what is going on with complete. eye were the hyperinflation. what is going on with the old

production. what is going on internationally. all of these are accumulated. and then is it the pores of change that is happening in venezuela. two more if i go, it was important to talk about a military crisis. and now it's an open issue in venezuela. it was impossible to think about drunk people carrying a replace. and for it, change has to do with the possibility to maintain correspo correspo corida, for example. and the financial for cuba. and to change maybe key person,

or key. changes of a year ago, as mark said, i remember, i was in europe a year ago. i was talking about sanctions. and i remember him telling me it will happen if eope does not prepare for sanctions again venezuela. and it had happened. a year ago, in the united states, had it happen more than those officials. so, if you see a very about the tiff way, there has been a lot of change in the last month with regard to venezuela. but the question is the same. why is maduro in power if there is that amount of pressure on maduro? well, i repeat it, i think that the combination of what -- what is -- what is an issue with an

oil today. they have it an fork and a responsib spoon and just shake it. if you take that, there is nothing else that supporting maduro within or abroad venezuela. >> mark. >> yeah, at the risk of offering advice to a politician, foreign politician from his own country, i do it with great hesitation. but i do think that part of the opposition's approach does need be about unity and rec consillation. the race is very small. and travis, whether you liked him or not he was very, very

popular. part of it had to do with high oil prices and whatnot. there were certain identification that people had with him. years ago, when we were doing focusgroups, and i recall venezuelan people talk about it. even with the first time in our lives we have a president a agree. that was the perception that people had. i think chavez has been down considerably on maduro. and has seen the consequences, what others have tried to do. but that's it. venezuela has rolling support now. and it is still a severely poor society in many ways. united states is polarize. it's nothing compared to venezuela. any new government will have to take that in into consideration, both in terms of rhetoric, in

terms of programming and policies in reaching out. >> any other questions. >> yes. and there's one -- let's do two this time. >> there was a big discussion, in venezuela, about maduro called last sunday election. and there were several calls. one of them was to get through a bit o legitimacy. you already answered about that. the second one was discard the opposition and be placed by american opposition. the third one was to change inside the turismo having to go with it. and in venezuela. and it's not part of publicity,

and the campaign was not. and the third is it may dialogu human rights or elections, buta situation and about sanctions. in your view, both of you, were these goals achieved by the elections last sunday? >> yes. let's take one, two on the back. >> i have a quick question. i wonder if you could share with us your thoughts about the role that sappatero is playing in the election. he recently met with francisco.

it seems he's up to something. i wonder what you think he's up to. >> thank you. >> well, i would like to answer the question of sappatero. it has a connection, a real connection. on sunday the date of the election, sappatero was very sad and he was in a meeting with a journalist from spain and europe and some ambassadors. and he was angry and mad because he was really clumsy. i don't know if the word

corresponded. it was very inappropriate because he said that all the purpose fails on may the 20th. his chief aim was to produce this new dialogue with aew opposition. it was very important that he denies and rejects the result. even it's important for you to know that he called two times that night and falcon rejected to take the telephone to talk to maduro. it was very important because beyond the election, the purpose to build this fictional dialogue with. sap sappater, thanks god, it was

dismantled. his internal numbers with the party of maduro was a complete failure as well. in my view, there is no one even issue for maduro to celebrate of may the 20th, not even one. he won the so-called elections. it was a pyrrhic trial. in my opinion, may 20th put maduro in a countdown. if we keep the pressure, if we keep the plan, if we are willing and capable of building that we have -- we are not an opposition but an alternative for a democratic force in venezuela, then i really believe that maduro is living a countdown. the role that sappatero is very,

very sad. it amazing to understand how this guy who was president of spain eight years, he is doing this kind of role as an advocate of the regime. there is no explanation for that. the official response of the spanish government was very strong against sappatero. public opinion in spain is killing him. [ speaking foreign language] >> yeah. they kicked him out. >> he was -- >> kicked out. >> kicked him out from the electoral centers. and he wants to try again and again to be part of a new dialogue with the government, something that we have to reject. and we ask to our friends and allies to reject the role that

sappatero is playing because it's very harmful for democracy. >> i have two quick questions, one for mark. of your experience in the u.s.

government, there's a sort of catch-22 of support of humanitarian assistance towards venezuela, but stabilizing the social crisis in venezuela could have the counter effect of stabilizing maduro in government. do you feel that could be in any way and h way? too to julio, what does that mean politically? if you solve the humanitarian crisis in venezuela, does that favor the government or does that show that the government failed in trying to govern venezuela? >> my name is neil from embassy of malaysia. i was posted in venezuela for the past three years and i just arrived in d.c. a couple of months ago. i totally understand the

situation in venezuela, because i lived there for the past three years, the most defect time. last year i went through the hunger, the shortages of medicine and everything. what iant to ask and what i want to highlight is the issue, the political crisis and humanitarian crisis in venezuela,eople forget. for me, you need to understand first the social element in venezuela. like what you pointed out, venezuela is a very unique country. you need to understand from their perspective, first of all. you have spoken about the measures to restoreemocra in venezuela, true external force, true dialogue, true protests. but it seems like it did not work for the path many years since chavez era. you started the protests in

2003, 2002, many rounds. 2013, 2017. it seems it did not work so far. also about dialogue, it depends on how sincere both sides. if you're talking about the sanctions by u.s., by eu. it did not work, because first you have to understand venezuela. i think the element is many people fail to understand the element and the thinking of venezuelans. you're coming from venezuela, i'm very sure. the problem for me, what i see is the gap, extreme gap, the political gap between the far left and far right. you do not have a moderate stand to bring back the people. i can talk about this, because coming from malaysia, i think we

all witnessed what just happened in our general elections. without any use of force or anything, we changed the government, the 62-year-old government we just recently changed. you are talking about corruption and things like this. for me, you need to look at the people first, whatple want and how you educate the people. >> thank you. >> okay. the united states does not use food as a weapon. the maduro regime uses food as a weapon. i'm not privy to discussions thatay have internally, but i am confident they are making every effort possible to get food assistance into venezuela as quickly and possible and making no other calculation about that. the reason that food is not getting in is because the

venezuelan government is blocking it. the usad has an office in miami. food and supplies could arrive in hours. if their own government decides right now that they will accept humanitarian assistance, that food will be down there today, tomorrow. there's only one thing blocking that from happening. obviously the united states has been providing financial assistance to colombia and to the u.n. network to provide as much humanitarian assistance and neighboring countries. but really the key is to get it in there. and some is gettingin, but not nearly enough. >> i will tell you you -- for maduro, it's the best thing that has happened to him. he really likes people leaving venezuela. he really enjoys people going

out of venezuela. oil is declining. ramon could tell us. right now they're trying to live with remittances. we meet did in october last yea survey. at that time, 17% of the population received some help from a friend or a family abroad. so there is a growing amount of money that we are subsidizing maduro's regime. people is working here in washington or in colombia or brazil for maduro. that's a reason what is drama for us which is humanitarian crisis, for maduro it's a solution. we have to take that into account, because he's happy that

people are leaving venezuela because it's people who have freedom, who have capacity to work and to maintain the regime through remittances. yeah. this is a real tragedy. in the new step when there is no more oil in the same amount as it passed this morning is perfect for him. that's the reason he took the contr control. he's the main source of this kind of operation from millions of venezuelan in different countries to their families within nezuela. >> remittance has become a very important income for the country. oil has been always the main income of venezuela, but remittances will soon, if the tendency continues, will soon surpass the oil revenues. that's a very important factor to keep in mind.

if there is something clear in washington, it's that venezuelans are not alone. we're all watching closely what's going on on the ground, we're all trying to help and we will continue to do so. we want to thank you for being here. keep fightg for democracy. we all need it.

coming up tonight, author and gun rights attorney steven h holbrook talks about the second amendment. he has successfully argued three gun law casesefehe u.s. supreme court. you can watch this at 8:30 p.m. eastern on c-span 2, online at c cspan.org. coming up tomorrow education secretary betsy devos will testify before a senate appropriations subcommittee about trump's 2019 budget request for her department. live coverage tuesday morning at

10:15 eastern here on c-span three. tonight on the communiquca s communicators, matthew p and andrew petersen. >> we serve so many areas. 35% of our customers don't have access to a traditional cable provider, very rural in scope. in many instances we are the only provider in those areas. we work closely with the government with private sector companies through the federal universal service program to bring broadband to customers who em m't previously have it, b e rich robust broadband in the future. >> i do think it's very important that as the administration, the fcc considers infrastructure like proceedings and other concepts,

that broadband is and has been determined to be a matter of important infrastructure to our country and to our national policy. that's a change, because tip i typically we think of infrastructure as roads, bridges, et cetera, which are all very important and need to be helped. but you cannot survive today as a business, as an individual, as someone working from home in our economy without having a robust broadband experience. >> watch the communiqcators tonight at 8 eastern on c-span 2.

now the council of the americas hosts a discussion on the political situation in venezuela following the recent elections there. panest include the canadian ambassador to the organization of american states and a venezuelan economist who just returned from a trip to the region. topics include sanctions, elections, humanitarian aid and the refugee situation. this is about an hour. ladies and gentlemen, good morning. welcome to the council of the americas. it's a real privilege to have the opportunity to welcome all of you back here for what promises to be a fabulous conversation on venezuela and what's next for that deeply troubled nation. my name is eric