immigration and who will replace paul ryan. sunday at 10:00 a.m. and :00 p.m. eastern on cspan. sunday on q&a. ross diawfit talks about his book, to change the church, pope francis an the future of kai thol schism. >> he thinks the church needs to change in various ways, particularly i think around issues related to the sexual revolution. marriage. divorce and so on. where prior popes basically said these are changes the church can't make. so there have been these sort of fraught places in his pontificate where he has clashed with cardinals and bishops and theologians over just how far he can push the church to change, what the church can exchange u without undercutting its

traditions or breaking faith with the new testament, the gospels of jesus christ. >> sunday at 8:00 eastern on cspan. a former president of the venezuela national assembly spoke at the center for strategicen and international studies here in washington about political unrest in his country. after his remarks, he and a former obama official took question frs the audience. good morning. welcome. we're delighted to have you here. i'm the president at csis.

before we start events, i start with safety announcement. if we hear voice that will say follow his lead. he's going take you through that door. we'll take two left hand turns and a right hand turn. we'll go to national geographic and there's a great show and i'll pay for the tickets. nothing's going to happen, but if it does, please follow michael's instructions. thank you for coming today. i was talking with hul joe owe and i was an awful lot of americans talk b about courage, but i said i can't say how odd i am to see you and yournthe koun you've embodied venezuela. i mean that sincerely. i can't think of more traumatic

time and a more traumatic set of events that gets far too little focus and attention in america. imagine if something, if there was a disaster in america that all of a sudden, 90% of the people in the state were living below the poverty line. would we tolerate that? when the average venezuelan has lost 24 pounds because starvati? why is that not the lead story every night in america? these are brothers and sisters, so close to us. to have a country of first world fist kags slip backwards in declay is just breathtaking and we're not outraged.

this is usucrucial and not enous know about it. we're so grateful that the opposition leader, hero, is here to share with us his perspective on what's going on in venezuela. i'm grateful you're here for u for us because we need to bring this bright slight in washington sharply on what's the tragedy that's unfolding in venezuela. i want to say thank you for coming. to get started, mime, i'm going to turn to you. you're going to over preliminary remarks. i'm so glad all of you are here to focus on this with us.

>> thank you so much. it's important you are was this morning. the t really one of the most important events we've done on venezuela over the last two years. our venezuela project is one of the top priorities of the america's program here at csis. together with -- who's been with me from the beginning from day wup, he was the first person i hired. we've really tried to shine the light on venezuela in lots of kimpbt ways. we've done this with the help of many different people. frds it seems to be b further

away. we're hoping it's going to be closer with the passing of the weeks and months. our focus over these last few months has been more on the humanitarian situation in venezuela and we have a number of initiatives there. i want to turn over the floor, but before that, i'd like to turn to landon loomis. the senior adviser on western hemisphere affairs for vice president pence. the vice president and president trump have been very have, very actively engaged on the issue of venezuela and that engagement has made a difference. we very much wanted to have landon with us today to share a few words before we turn the floor over to the panel. landon.

>> thank you for letting me organize this event. i'd like to recognize julio as well. the vice president really enjoyed meeting you in lima again. speaking with you and your colleagues. he came way from that unkoenter by your story, by your eloquence and your able toy speak. there's an importance, it's an important moment now that we share our sense of outrage i can assure everyone that the president and vice president share that. but being able to highlight the experience of leaders like owe is important and we appreciate the orole csis is playing to do that. they're top priority for this administration. when vice president pence traveled throughout the area last year, he talked about a sense of urgency. the problems in venezuela b have

been on a slow motion crisis for a long time. what this administration has done has said this will not stand. there's a sense of urgency in our policy and engagement with venezuela is important and is consistent and that the vice president articulated when we traveled through the region last august. happened since then is that a sense of urgency has become a sense of frustration. because despite historic, unique, global sense that's what's happening in venezuela is unacceptable, despite the consensus that's built up around the region, we have in venezuela, a political situation that's devastating to its people. that sense of frustration is where we were on may 19th. the maduro administration missed on opportunity on the 20th by holding that election.

to make decisions based t ed on good and well being of the people, the administration missed an opportunity when they he will tho those elections. on may 20th, a dictator stole a rigged election. he had to set the rule of the game in advance and ensure the terms are stacked. he got half as many votes than he expected. he set a record for extension, more than double iing the extenn rates for the election. that's in a country that yulio can attest to has a proud heritage.

the cynical use of food, a decisive factor. has maintained a steady drum beat of pressure. the full weight of economic pressure to bear. to bring about the peaceful transformation. designated deals and his family for being corrupt officials for aiding the corruption of the venezuelan country and its people. on monday, we issued an executive order that further tightened the financial sanctions which we have put in place to ensure the regime does not have access to the system.

since the beginning, we have sanctioned more than 70 venezuelan related individuals. under four different executive orders. and it's important to remind all of us to highlight an aspect of the sanctions policy, which isn't always at rest. which is what is the purpose of the sanctions policy. why does the united states use sanctions? it's to change behavior. that is to say the sanctions themselves are a function of the decisions and the choices that the maduro regime making today. if those choices change, if behavior changes, sanctions are designed to be removed. and that's an important concept as we think about the way forward. ultimately, the way forward, the solution lies with the venezuela people. the ultimate arbiters of the venezuela democracy are the people themselves. this is an important moment for

the venezuela people to think how to participate and support and be a part of the process of building international pressure which has reached a new level. the u.s. and the world will stand with the venezuelan people. we have the oes general assembly happening next week where we plan to work across the region and the world for the release of political prisoners to address the crisis, and respect the national assembly. this project has the full attention of the leadership here in the united states. working across interagency to build a coalition of partners who want to work and restore democracy to venezuela. thank you. >> thank you, landon. thank you, michael, thank you all for being here. julio borges is a lawyer and politician. he founded venezuela's largest

opposition party and served as national coordinator since the beginning of 2000. mr. borges is currently serving his third term in congress, in miranda, part of the capital of caracas and venezuela's national assembly. and also the president of 2017 to 2018. borges has become one of the major opposition leaders in venezuela and a broad advocating for the restoration of democracy and in calling out the human rights violations that are systematically taking place in venezuela. mr. borges started law. in one of the best universities,

not saying that because i also wept to that same school. andreas vega catholic university. and oxford university. with that briefly, mr. borges, i want to thank you for coming to see us here. we're delighted to have you here. and now the floor is yours, thank you. >> well, thank you for this interruption, moises, i appreciate it. thank you, michael, landon and my friend mark. well, i would like two part of the position. the first part i would like to underline some issues that i think are very important in order to understand how

venezuela regime is a trap for the security of the region and the democracy all over the world. and secondly, i would like to share with you our view about the future and the role that you have to play in order to speak to the change in venezuela. well, first of all, i think what's going on in venezuela is a connection, a real connection, between cuba, nicaragua and venezuela. venezuela has played a role to mainly to finance all of the movement, extreme movement, all over latin america. in the recent past, there was a lot of money due to the oil revenue. but now it has, in a different situation right now.

but even though we have such a hard crisis in venezuela, venezuela government is still paying the bills from countries like cuba. two weeks ago, we had the news that venezuelan government used $400 million in order to buy oil for cuba. in this very moment, in which we are facing this huge crisis, venezuela and maduro prefer to get the money and provide money to cuba. and not to use it in a different issue. that's very clear how a real solution in venezuela would lead to a real solution also in cuba and nicaragua as well. the for me, it's very clear that even the social and political manifestation that we are seeing in nicaragua are the result that venezuela has not money in order to provide funds to nicaragua.

and all of the social unrest that nicaragua is facing is still to the weak capacity of the venezuelan government in order to provide money for nicaragua and cuba as well. there is a third actor which is russia. russia probably has not the strength in order to maintain a venezuela as it did with cuba in the past. but for me, it's very clear that russia wants to play a role in order to use venezuela to take part in the region and decentralize the region to the conflict of venezuela. and some has important business in oil and gas as we have seen in the recent agreements of venezuela. then, for the point of view of the venezuelan government right now, i guess that their main expectation is to wait in order to see a change in the region. if you see a -- i hope you don't -- you will see permanently that all of the hope

of venezuela is about change in mexico, change in colombia. this is a very dangerous situation because in my opinion, there is a very real hope in venezuela's government in waiting for the change in the region, in order to break all of the alliance that exists surrounding venezuela democracy. and this is a real danger that we are facing this very year. and for them, it's crucial to obtain a new landscape in latin america in order to break the consensus that exists around the problem of venezuela democracy and human rights.

at the same time, there is a -- after the so-called election, we can expect an increase in the number of people going out of venezuela, immigration. and this is a real threat for the region as well. right now, almost 3 or 4 million venezuela people have left the country. and this number will grow. and this is a very difficult situation for the peoples around venezuela. and we expect that this number due to the political and social crisis will increase. and we will produce also destabilization in the region. and as far as the old revenue decreased, the opportunity to

open illegal activities such as narcotic traffic or organized crime is growing in venezuela. a month ago i had an opportunity to have a very interesting meeting with a german official. and he told me that the problem of drug traffic is not only related to groups in latin america, such as movement in colombia and venezuela. but also the drug traffic has to do with the pass for latin america, africa and then to europe.

and the german government has detected that also the money from the drug traffic goes to islamic groups that they gain money through drug traffic. through the region. so, we are talking here, and this is increasing in venezuela, about a global negative business that has to do with guerilla movement in latin america. destabilization movement in latin america but also radical islamic movement in africa and also in europe. so, there's a common threat that has to do with the open use of

the drug business in venezuela right now. another issue that we have to expect about venezuela in the future is the use of conflict as a defense mechanism for maduro. it's very clear, that as far as he's involved in more troubles, internal troubles, he will look for troubles abroad in order to keep power in venezuela. that is the case, for example, in honduras. that is the case, for example, in mexico and colombia. it's very clear that there is right now a corruption business related to maduro's government with the food, the famous clap. he buys the food from mexico and some from chile and colombia, after they made the business with the people in mexico, colombia or chile. they help the groups. that is the case in mexico and in colombia as well. and is the case of different movement in latin america. so, the use not only of drugs, but also corruption, in order to fund radical movement in the region, it will be an increased practice of maduro, because he

would like to have different problems from venezuela. and use conflict all over latin america as a mechanism for the defense of his own situation as well. honduras is another case i'd like to underline. another issue i'd like to underline, what is maduro's philosophy, before all of the crisis he has created? >> i guess his only position would be to resist. that would be his only position in front of all of the crisis. and he's facing a raise. as you know, we have hyper inflation. we have production, we have external fuse against the old industry. we have a huge military internal crisis.

we have the money internal crisis, we have the external pressure, and maduro's answer to those crises would be on resistance, not change. two days ago with the european ambassador in caracas. and he has an unique position for them. he told them he would like to be treated as cuba. they don't want to be attentioned. they don't want different treatment, but the position of maduro's government for europe was we would be like to be like castro and cuba. and they consider themselves as the new cuba. but with maduro's half idea, is that economic change in cuba

could produce political change in cuba. different from venezuela. in venezuela, only the economic change could produce freedom, is the only way around. right now in their heads, their minds only to receive -- they don't want to change the system, they don't want to change the economy, they just want to consolidate cuba's system in order to be empowered. then, regarding a position, i would like to be very clear that in this recent years, we have done almost everything. we went to the parliament election in 2015. we won. and the government shut down the parliament. and we used our mechanism in the constitution to call for referendum. the government has stopped the call for referendum. then we went to the street and had 130 days of registration. reportedly, with an actual number of people who die for the

violence of the government. then we went to the regional elections then to a dialogue, the chief of the organization for the position of dialogue and they were a closed door in our face. so, we have done everything, elections, dialogue, demonstrations. constitutional mechanism. so, we have done everything. right now, we're in a situation in which we did a real damage to the government. the government never expected to have so low an amount of gold on election. and it's very, very important to underline that venezuela's people's dignity is so high,

that even though it order to have something to eat, you have to be on your knees before the government even though that people express by their dignity with the silence of not participating in the election. and i'm very proud that venezuelan people show that amount of dignity before venezuelan government. maduro was surprised about the outcome of may the 20th. right now, more than six countries denied that election. the g7, the g20. the group, the united states, right now we have all alliances with democracies all over the world but we need to strengthen our external pressure in order to mash external mesh and certainly pressure and make an outcome. a democratic outcome this year. for me, it's very important to

thanz transmit to you, to emp emphasize, that lan don is clear about it and vice president pence as well, that we are in a real timing, the real opportunity for change in venezuela. maduro has created so many crisis, different in economic issues, in the social issues. in the military issues. in the certainly issues. in my opinion, he wouldn't be able to deal with all of the crisis. people always ask, why is maduro in power? what happened that this guy is in power after all of the destruction of venezuela? well, in order to understand this in historical terms. in venezuela, there is a mixture of ingredients which are different from other countries. we have oil.

and we have army and we have the cuban regime behind. the combination of these three elements, army force, oil and the cuba regime produced that the change in venezuela which is happening is happening in a small motion. it's like in slow motion moving. but it's happening. and we have a great outcome. and i guess this year has to be this year. in order to take it apart. and have a conversation with you. what about our position? we have our main challenge. our main challenge is unity. but not only political unity

because it is not opposition versus the government. we are building which means behold society against the regime, the church, the university. entrepreneurs, the union and political parties. if it wants to be an expression of maduro and that society, it's against the authoritarian regime. we have a second challenge which is to produce a different approach to the army force. we should say to the army force that they are part of the future. that they are part of democracy. that they are part of a development. that we've been looking to the army force for revenge on the country that we have to build together a new and unique country with freedom and institutions.

our third challenge as a position is to express to the world that we have a plan. that we know how to deal with crisis. that we know how to change economy. that we have to change institutions in order to have a democratic society. that we want an open society and open venezuela, in order to make a huge cultural and economic and social exchange with the world. that we know how to deal with the crisis. fourth, that change -- our

fourth challenge, that change is unavoidable. that change is going to happen. that we are not doomed as cubans in order waiting for decades for change. that maduro is weak and we are strong. that democracies all over the world, and this is demonstration of that with the venezuela people, with their dignity and their rights that change will happen very soon in venezuela. and the fifth challenge that we have, this is something that you also have to help us, is to show to the rest of the world the deep humanitarian crisis in venezuela. that this is something that has to change consciousness all over the world. what is. happening in venezuela, in my opinion, is not comparing with

any crisis right now in the world. and i guess that within these long traditions as michael says about venezuela and the united states, i'm sure that there is a real compassion about what's going on in government. i have three meetings with vice president pence, and i can feel he has a personal commit. and when i heard your opinions and your voice about venezuela, i could feel that it's not only a political term, it's not only a political problem, it's a human crisis. it's a human crisis that touched your heart. that touch your soul. that touch the history between information and america. and i'm very grateful about your devotion about what's going on in venezuela. and it will be something to be very proud in the future, when

we reach change in venezuela, to tell to our sons and our grandsons and all our descendants, the role that played america, the role that played latin america. the role that played united states. in fighting for premium and dignity in my country. so, i'm very grateful for that. i'm very grateful for that opportunity. and most of the challenge that we're accomplished as a position is in order also to collaborate with the threat that right now maduro's regime would present for not only the region, not only for the united states, but also for democracy all over the world. thank you very much. >> thank you, mr. borges. can i call you julio now? now, we're going to have about 20 to 25 minutes of conversation between mark and julio, before we open it up to q & a, i'm sure many of you have questions so be patient, we're going to get there.

first of all, seeing the government and nongovernment sectors. in the obama administration he served as a special director and senior director for western affairs. and backup policy and policy toward cuba and orchestrated the president's trips to cuba and argentina. and also the development of the peace initiative. and an advance that deepened the u.s. cooperation between mexico and canada. very full background on the whole region, mark. you consulted with and serves as a senior adviser. to the stom bridge group among other groups. thank you, mark, for being with us. you heard julio's remarks. we're all curious to get your thoughts and reaction. >> well, first, thank you very much for the invitation and an honor to join julio and you,

moises. anyone who's more eloquent and informed about what's happening in venezuela and what's met 15 years ago, i was a consultant for rcb which is the radio and tv network shut down over time. dr. hamre spoke earlier about how courageous julio is. and in my 35-plus years of working around the region and the world, i've met many people who are followed to democracy rights. i've never known anybody as principled as julio. he has a beautiful family. and i'm confident when the history of this period in the

final chapter will be a good one. ial agree that change is unavoidable, he said. julio when go down as one of the heros in this period. michael spokes earlier about ciss effort. and moises did a phenomenal job. in the last two years i was in the white house the last two years, the obama administration. and i did spent more money on obama than any other issue. i think the thing is true. and the regime has held on this long, despite the highest inflation rate in the world. despite the deepest economic attraction in the world. despite the highest murder rate in the world.

despite a significant set of u.s. sanctions and sanctions by other countries and the domestic pressure as well, that julio outlined. in terms of the national effort, landon spoke very well to this. of course, united states has taken the initiative of sanctioning 70 different. it is a target-rich environment. this regime is full of senior officials, who have been engaged in corruption and retributions. and drug trafficking. and this morning, with regard to the exotic, there's one of several in the house. and of course, sanctions from canada, but eu and panama and switzerland as well. and landon laid out the strategy which i think is very sound which is basically to try to change behavior between the maduro regime. this morning, the idea is about punish and create behavior.

the idea is to create fissures within the regime. and signaling it's part of providing incentive to distance themselves and to negotiate and provide a way, the way out as well. not only is it important to send a signal to those sanctioned. and if they take certain steps in advantage, they can avoid getting 0 than list. now, we've seen some defections with the regime, to be honest with you, we have not seen it. my understanding is, obviously, there are broader sanctions beyond the individual, but the united states can impose. and they have sew the trump administration has imposed some rhetoric on sanctions. the invitation, i think, to go

too far. there's a lot of discussion about the possibility, the oil embargo, for example. one, they did this morning, a whole series of steps. a series of entermediate. and the company is collapsing on its own or collapsing because of the mismanagement of the maduro regime. we've seen oil truck just collapse. and then with regard to an oil embargo which could potentially have an impact on gasoline prices in the united states. i think there are more steps that other countries and the united states can take. oes is coming up. i think it would be an appropriate move and send a very, very powerful signal. venezuelan government pretends they don't care about that. they do, a lot. we saw what happened when they were suspended and bringing it to this meeting.

and there's only one thing preventing venezuela from being suspended from the oes, and that's the caribbean -- i served during the clinton years. at the time the caribbean bloc was a set of 13 countries that were always there, providing their votes when it came to issues of democracy. and they have effectively been bout out. venezuela will have all kinds. and principles.

a great effort now to try to encourage work in countries to break to provide the votes and finally be able to suspend venezuela from it. the oes is going to publish a report regarding crimes admitted in venezuela. that court will be referred to the icc which then can conduct that of individuals responsible for crimes against humanity. i think it would be helpful if other countries match what panama was doing. it's impressive. panama is the only latin america country taking action. and the lima group, that's great. but one would have evened up on that one. despite all of the efforts, it's not clear that international pressure would be sufficient.

to change behavior. and to promote a democratic transition in venezuela. and i think especially if you consider that there are countervailing factors as well. there's russia and china, which continue to provide support to the regime and julio referenced that, that's russia, in particular. in what we've seen in the past few years there are at times domestic pressure and at times international pressure. they often have been in sync. a couple years ago, julio

outlined this, frankly, at the time, national position was very really. and when the referendum was cancelled then the referee jumped in and oversaw the talks which ultimately failed because there was no national pressure. now, we're seeing a lot of international pressure and one of the tragedies there, the venezuela people have been demobilized. this is not a criticism, it's an obligation. people send their days looking for food, looking for medicine. maybe they're going into exile. planning their exit. maybe they're afraid because they have used violence before. they're afraid to go to jail or

be tortured. and i think we're reached the point that many people in venezuela are waiting for military coup. they're waiting for military invasion. and that is not going to happen. i think this is critical because the regime needs to know they need to feel the pressure. and i would end by posing a question to julio. does he agree with what i said, but take issue on any part of it. you spoke about this as well about the importance of creating the internal to match the external. what kind of steps can you do to to help that. >> i do say, mark, and someone who knows me are well as a servant, we're thank for all of the jobs in venezuela. this is part of the timing tragedy.

where we have enough internal and domestic pressure, there was -- the beginning of international pressure. and there's not much in both. right now, the decision of venezuela, many people come from venezuela here knows that the possibility to at least organize, or to call for demonstrations, for example, right now, it's very limited. and all political accesses leave under real fear. and modern fear panic because the government have no limits to do whatever they want. but i guess the only window of opportunity has to do with social issues. regarding hyperinflation, and

regular people live under fear. i guess the situation could become more dramatic, more dramatic than right now which it's a tragedy, it can be more dramatic that both fear and go to demonstrate their real feeling. it's very curious, but we see the people's behavior on may 20th, the so-called election, it was a very clever to protect without violence. they depend on them for food. although that positions people to know 2% and to know to go to vote. and i'm very sure that in a limited situation, people can overcome fear and make

differences because it's within ours. it's almost as if in nicaragua, no one expected nicaragua's demonstration and riots and it happens. it has to do with a nation. so, to answer your question, mark, i think we should expect the internal pressure coming from the social and political play -- a role to play in this situation is to make easier the organization to people to demonstrate for their rights. >> thank you, julio, thank you, mark. on the same line, i know this is a very important issue, i think i agree with you both, domestic

and international pressures are needs to see any change in venezuela. we don't know what's going to happen the day after the elections. nicolas maduro was elected. but i haven't really seen yet a plan moving forward. could you describe for us what kind of roots do the venezuela people have, knowing to engage on this for restoring democracy? what kind of plan can they engage in to mobilize the pressure that he's seeing. >> well, it's a two-part. we're in an actual situation. actual situation. it's a situation, you have to find strength versus strength. there is no legal constitutional, institutional,

battlefield. it's where are maduro led to venezuela to love the jungle as we are leaving right now in that position. we have challenged a nation about unity, about the message to the army before and the plan to the future during the military crisis, we have to keep the idea of election as the -- as the final goal. for building a solution in venezuela. and this is not a realistic or remote situation. we're aware we're facing a very

tough situation. in many of the scenarios of venezuela. we have to undergo a coup. the final goal has beens to elections in venezuela. we have to be very clear about that. one thing of change, change of the actual and common steaks. and the other thing is what is the final goal that we are looking and building for. which is the free expression of theed have people. and for people in venezuela and abroad, it seems so awkward that we're talking about the election. it has a real argument, we don't have an election, maybe we

thought you. we said that to the so-called elections. thats this is the role i have to play democratic leaders in venezuela and democratic leaders who support real elections in venezuela. but not in a naive way. but under the role consciousness of being very aware that you're facing a dictatorship in venezuela. it's the weren't why the implements, about the humanitarian crisis, about our the approach to the national-s international community. but with the final goal, elections and freedom for the people, no matter what could cost, this change in venezuela, it would be a social explosion. it would be a military action. it would be an organization with a note. with the final goal that is a

democratic election in venezuela. >> thank you, julio. there was an attorney after may 20th -- there was something that happened that we have not even her before. >> and now, so far, they condemned the international assembly in not recognizing them. they condemn all of the institutions. for maduro, we had that recommendation as a president. now, there's a debate going on, what type of legitimateness does he have. is he the president of venezuela or no longer the president of venezuela.

the supreme court rating in bogota, in the parliament of colombia. it is different institutions trying to operate from abroad. can we get these thoughts, how do you see these issues, legitimacy of it. >> well, i said that we are living a factual situation. maduro is now a legitimate president. but is there -- it doesn't have to do with his authority or his democratic outcome. it's a dictatorship that is using and kidnapping power. and venezuela people have done, as i mentioned, everything in order to produce change in

venezuela. i think a crucial actor has to do with the army force. one of my concerns is that after may the 20th, the name, the principal, any means of maduro and cuba, venezuela how has resource. and leaving after may 20th, i'm sure that maduro and cubans are thinking about how to destroy army forces. this is something to call attention to democracies all over the world because this is the

last institution that we have, in order to restore democracy in venezuela. and they are, right now, producing a huge repression on the army force. and this operation is led by cuban officials. and it's very clear that after, may 20th, that would be the new trophy that maduro wants to show to the cubans. the destruction of the army force in venezuela. anything different from that right now? a government in the exile. or institutions in the exile. they can help in order to call his attention. but in the urgency that we are leaving right now, venezuela, these problems about the almost deduction of the army force has to be one of the most important issues we to have to put on the political and public.

>> there's a lot of discussion on the army as a potential democratic savior, if you will. when i look at the venezuela armed forces, i guess what i is he is a force that's been indoctrinated and purged over the years. indoctrinated in thinking. and changed and framed by the cubans. and the worse how it's engaged. engaged in other activity. drug trafficking for example. i look at them and they seem to say, unlikely democratic savior, if you will. where am i wrong? obviously, no force is monolithic, and i ask that part

of the answer, could you speak to that a little bit? >> what about the others? >> yeah. well, you see right now in the last two or three weeks, there are more than 200 gun officials in jail. it was a real surprise. because they thought these gun officials were the new generation of the chavista army force. but the fact is the people don't like what's going on in venezuela. don't like the cuban force. and it's very, very important that the new elite of young people have that reaction for democratic and constitutional behavior in venezuela. and for me it produces me a lot of money that there is a moral risk as well, within this destruction that we're living in venezuela. and mainly about young people in

the army force. we're not talk two or three guys. we're talking more than 200 officials. so, we are not in front of this small constoleation constillation. it's the whole solution telling everybody, we don't want to be cuba. we have to pay attention to that situation, which is happening right now. >> thank you, julio. questions before we turn to the audience. sanction, you mentioned it has been the sanction policy. have sanctions been effective in your point of view? and what else can be done to increase its effectiveness, or worst, the behavior of change that landon was describing for us. >> yeah. well, as i told you i was the

chief or opposition in the dominican republic. and doing it for months. and if sanctions were not working, the government talked about sanctions 9 out of 10 that they saved. it was amazing. every single section was sanction. we have to move sanctions. we don't want more sanctions. we're blames for the sanctions, everything. so sanctions aren't working. that is an important element not only for punishment but for the regime. it's amazing when there is a rumor that new sanctions are coming from europe or from united states, this big guy that you see screaming in the tv about revolution, they try to

say to everyone they know, do you know of the sanctions. they're full of the sanctions and they're working. and to break the system or to leak to a real negotiation, they have no doubt about the efficiency of sanctions at this very moment. all of the problem of hyper inflation, the problem of corrupt revenue. the problem as international it has to be blamed on maduro's regime. it has nothing to do with sanctions. we have to make it very clear, the government wants to blame sanctions on everything that's happened in venezuela. i have so many research.

as good as mark's research that instead people din by the argument, that is very clear that the economic and social situation has to do only with maduro. maduro tried to sell during the last six years that the old living in venezuela had to do with the economic work. and they repeated right now, currently, and in the survey, people who believe that the economic worth was the origin about the social crisis, it was not more than 13%. so, why not saying we have to be hopeful about the change in venezuela. is and this is very important is that there is a real change to venezuela people.

i remember one of the surveys that mark did in venezuela about destabilization, methodation, and it was amazing at that time, 90% were out and they were happy. we like more in the private sector to the state. right now, the support for it is 3%. 3%. from 90% to 3%. what is important, of these facts, is that people had to change. people had once entrepreneur. people was investments. people was trade. people was democracy. they don't buy the cuban project anymore. so, this is a very important issue that shows that venezuelan

people really ready for change and right now. >> you've all been very patient, please before you ask a question, identify yourself and your name and the affiliation, keep the question short, please. >> hi, how are you, i'm from the brookings institution. i want to push back to what he said. he asked about the strategy. you talk about the day after. well, the day after, there's going to be an election. i think wee all agree on that. there's a little bit there that you see on the outside. you mentioned i want to be by the question two. i'm the economy, i will ask more questions than i promising. one you're saying there is a slow motion change happening. i'm wondering what's the evidence on that. is there something that you may

know, you can say it i guess. i would love to know that there is a change happening. in terms of social control, they're very strong. if there's no strategy, why is it tried? you tried election -- why is this tried that will unify the position. i believe it's not an option. you need to plan around the strategy. and what it looks like with the vacuum. having said all of this, i know this is a very tough position. but even hearing you say it is worth your thoughts. >> thank you. let's do that first. and mark feel free to comment. >> there are a lot of evidence of change.

a lot. and let me say this, i don't see no example of no evidence of change. you know. if you see what is going on with complete. in the economy, with the hyperinflation. what is going on with the oil production, what is going on in the army force. what is going on internationally. all of these are accumulated. and then is it the pores of change that is happening in venezuela. force of change. two months ago, it was impossible to talk about a military crisis. and now it's an open issue in venezuela. it was impossible to think about drunk people carrying a replace. and for it, change has to do

and the government's answer is only oppression. and for the government's change has to do with the impossibility to maintain corida for example. and the financial for cuba. and to change maybe key person, or key. telling clearly to maduro, i don't recognize your elections. changes of a year ago, as mark said, i remember, i was in europe a year ago. i was talking about sanctions. and i remember him telling me it will not happen, europe is not ready for sanctions to venezuela. and it had happened. a year ago, in the united states, had it happen more than those officials. so if you see in a very objective way.

there has been a lot of change in the last month regarding venezuela. but the question is the same. why is maduro in power if there is that amount of pressure on maduro? well, i repeat it, i think that the combination of what -- what is -- what is an issue with an oil today. they have it an fork and a spoon and just shake it. if you take that, there is nothing else that supporting maduro within or abroad venezuela. >> mark. >> yeah, at the risk of offering advice to a politician, foreign politician from his own country, i do it with great hesitation. but i do think that part of the opposition's approach does need to be about unity and rec consillation. the race is very small. and travis, whether you liked

him or not he was very, very reconciliation. popular. hugo chavez. whether you liked him or not, the truth is at times he was very popular. with extraordinarily high approval ratings. part of that had to do with high oil prices and what-not. but there was a certain identification that people had with him. years ago, when we were doing focus groups, and i recall venezuelan people talk about it. even with the first time in our lives we have a president a agree. that was the perception that people had. i think chavez has been down considerably on maduro. and has seen the consequences, what others have tried to do. but that's it.

venezuela has rolling support now. and it is still a severely poor society in many ways. united states is polarize. it's nothing compared to venezuela. any new government will have to take that in into consideration, both in terms of rhetoric, in terms of programming and policies in reaching out. >> any other questions. >> yes. and there's one -- let's do two this time. >> there was a big discussion, in venezuela, about maduro called last sunday election. and there were several calls. one of them was to get through a bit of legitimacy. you already answered about that. the second one was discard the opposition and be placed by

american opposition. the third one was to change inside the turismo having to go with it. and in venezuela. and it's not part of publicity, and the campaign was not. and the third is it may have been a new position. and this was not about human rights, but election, but somebody economy and social situation and sanction. what is the goal achieved by the elections last sunday? >> yes. let's take the one in the back.

>> hi, i'm juan cortenez. julio, i have one quick question. i wonder if you can share with us your thoughts about the role that rodriguez zabatero is playing in the election. he recently met with pope, papa francis and it seems he's up to something. and i wonder what you think he's up to. >> well, i would like to answer the question of zapatero with gust gustavo's remarks, it has a real connection. on sunday, may 20, the day of the election, zapatero was very

sad. zapatero was very sad. he was in a meeting with some journalists from spain and europe and some ambassadors. and and he was angry and mad. because he was really clumsy, i don't know if the word correspond. but he was very -- he said that all the purpose of cavismo fails on may 20th. his chief aim was to produce this new dialogue with opposition. and it was very important that falcon denies and rejects the result. and even it's important for you to know that, maduro called two times to falcone that night. and falcone rejected to take the telephone to talk to maduro.

and it was very important because beyond the election, the purpose to build this fictional dialogue with zapatero again, thank god it was dismantled. and his internal numbers with the new political party of maduro was a complete failure as well so in my view you mentioned gustavo, there is no one even issue for maduro to celebrate on may 20th. not even one. and even he won the so-called elections. it was a pirrhic triumph. and in my opinion, may 20th put maduro in a countdown.

if we keep the pressure, if we keep the plan, we are willing and capable of building that we are not in opposition, but an alternative for democratic force in venezuela, i really believe that maduro is leaving at countdown. and the role that zapatero plays is very, very sad. it's amazing. to understand how this guy who was president of spain eight years, is doing this kind of role as an advocate of this regime. there is no explanation for that. the official response of spanish government was very strong against zapatero. public opinion in spain is killing him. and people in venezuela. >> the stock market. >> he was -- huh?

>> kick him out. from the electoral centers. so and he wants to try again and again to be part of a new dialogue with the government. something that we have to reject and we ask to our friends and allies of democracy in venezuela to reject the role that zapatero is playing because it's very harmful for democracy. not only in venezuela, but also in the region as well. >> mark, any thoughts? >> just briefly. i think it's a reminder that there have been a range of international actors in venezuela that have not been helpful. and it goes beyond just the few countries that we often name. and julio we just spoke about one individual you know we saw earlier with unasoro playing a very unhelpful role. i think it's fading now as other countries are taking more of a lead. the dynamic is better and

zapatero used to be at the center of activity and now he's very much isolated. which i think is a positive thing. >> yeah. any other questions? yeah, one here and then one over there. >> thank you. just arrived from venezuela two months ago. i have two quick questions, one for mark, maybe. with your experience in foreign, in the u.s. government, there's a sort of catch-22 of support of humanitarian assistance towards venezuela firsthand i know because of the impact of crisis in venezuela. stabilizing the crisis in venezuela, could have the countereffect of stabilizing maduro in government. do you feel that could be in any way and how to to julio. what does that mean politically? if you solved the humanitarian crisis in venezuela, does that favor the government? or does that show that the government failed in trying to

govern venezuela? >> yes, thank you. let's do one more over there on the left side. >> good afternoon. my name is neil from embassy of malaysia. if i may give a little perspective and observation because i was posted in venezuela for the past three years. and i arrived in d.c. a couple of months ago. i totally understand the situation in venezuela, i lived there the past three years. the most difficult time i went through the hunger, i went to the shortages of medicine and everything. what i want to ask and what i want to highlight is, the issue, the political crisis, the constitutional crisis or humanitarian crisis in venezuela, most often people forget, for me you need to understand first the social element in venezuela. like what you pointed out. venezuela is a very unique country. unlike many countries.

you need to understand you have spoken about the measures to restore democracy in venezuela. true dialogue. true protests. but it seems like it did not work for the past many years since chavez era. you started the protest in 2003, 2002. and many rounds. 2013. 2017. it did not work. so far. and also, you're talking about dialogue. it depends on how sincere both sides. >> when you're talking about the sanctions by u.s., sanctions by eu, sanctions by oas. it did not work. first you have to understand venezuela. i think the element is many people fail to understandle

element and the thinking of managers. you coming from venezuela, i'm very sure, the problem for me what i see is the gap. extreme gap. the political gap between far left and far right. you do not have a moderate -- stand to bring back the people. i can talk about this because coming from malaysia. i think we all witness what just happened in our general elections. we thought, we thought any, any use of force or anything. we changed the government. the 62-year-old government, we just presented a change. and you're talking about corruption, you're talking about things like this. which you highlighted earlier. but for me, i think you need to look at the people first. what people want and how you educate the people. in order to make change. that's what i am thinking. >> yeah, okay. >> in the united states does not use food as a weapon.

the maduro regime uses food as a weapon. i'm not privy to discussions that landon and juan cruz may have been having internally. i'm sure they're doing everything possible to get food assistance into venezuela as quickly as possible. and the reason the food is not getting in is because the venezuelan government is blocking it. the usaid has a warehouse in miami. that food could arrive in venezuela, it could arrive in hours. and if maduro's people understand this. if their own government decides right now, that they will accept humanitarian assistance, the food could be down there today, tomorrow. there's only one thing blocking that from happening. obviously the united states has been providing financial assistance to colombia and to the u.n. network to provide as much humanitarian assistance in neighboring countries. and the real key is to get it in

there. some is getting in there, but not nearly enough. >> i will say about what diego mentioned is that what is a tragedy for us, for public opinion, of venezuela, is maduro is the best thing that has happened to him. he really likes people living in venezuela. he really enjoys people going out. venezuela. all he's declining. ramon could tell us. >> but right now they're trying to live with remittances. we need on october last year survey. at that time there was 17% of the population received some help from, from a friend or a family.

abroad. so there is a growing amount of money that we are subsidizing that duro's regime. people is working here in washington or in colombia or in brazil for maduro. it's a tragedy. and that's the reason what is the drama for us, which is humanitarian crisis. for maduro the solution. we have to take that on account. because he's happy that people is leaving venezuela, because people who has freedom, who has capacity to work. and to maintain the regime, from about to remittances, remittances, and this is a real tragedy. that we are in the new step when there is no more oil and the same amount as the past this money is perfect for him. that's the reason he took the control of manesco. the main source of this kind of operation from millions of

venezuelan in different countries to their families within venezuela zlxt which by the way remittances has become as julio was saying, very important income for the country. oil has been always the main income for venezuela. remittances will soon, if the tendency continue, will soon surpass oil revenues, that's a very important fact tore keep in mind. if there is something clear in washington is that venezuelans are not alone. we're all watching closely, what's going on on the ground. we're all trying to help and we will continue to do so. we want to thank you to be here with us. thank you so much. and keep fighting for democracy. we all need it. thank you. [ applause ] >> thank you, mark.

>>. tomorrow on c-span, vice president mike pence speaking at the faith and freedom coalition conference in washington. it starts at 6:30 p.m. eastern live on our companion network, c-span. and on sunday, c-span, ohio republican congressman jim jordan, a co-founder of the congressional freedom caucus is on newsmakers, he talks about immigration, the russia investigation and who will replace paul ryan as speaker of the house. jim jordan on news makers sunday at 10:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. >> this week marks the 50th anniversary of the assassination of robert f. kennedy. >> these last few weeks robert francis kennedy was enjoying

himself. he really enjoyed getting out among the people. he enjoyed the physical contact. he refused police protection. because he said that all the people wanted to do was to touch him. not to hurt him. >> this weekend, on real america. on american history tv. watch the cbs news special report from june 6, 1968. the night robert kennedy died from gunshot wounds. >> they quickly decided to transfer him to good samaritan hospital where the facilities were better for delicate brain surgery. mrs. kennedy was with him all of the time riding in the ambulance. now from one hospital to the other. the suspect, now identified as sirhan, sirhan, was grabbed by rafer johnson and rosie greer, the two kennedy men. then he was led by police back to the ball room and the hotel. some of the officers had to protect him from the crowd there were several kennedy supporters, bystanders who were close to hysteria at this point and there was concern for the suspect's

safety. >> watch "real america" sunday at 4:00 p.m. eastern, on american history tv. on c-span 3. c-span, where history unfolds daily. in 1979, c-span was created as a public service. by america's cable television companies. today we continue to bring you unfiltered coverage of congress. the white house, the supreme court, and public policy events in washington, d.c. and around the country. c-span is brought to you by your cable or satellite provider. the senate banking committee held a hearing late last month about cybersecurity risks in the banking sector, banking executives testified about how they're trying to protect the personal data of their customers.