night. then, join washington journal tuesday and wednesday mornings for analysis and your comments. watch live on cspan or listen using the free cspan radio app. >> up next on the interim chief of the forest service testifies on wildfire response efforts. the national agency fire centers 2018 forecast said that nearly 1 dozen western states would experience above normal sig thickened wildland fire potential between the months of june and september. held by the senate energy and natural resources committee, this is about 90 minutes. good morning, everyone, the committee will come to order. nice to be able to welcome back to the committee mr. beaufort and ms. christiansen. we are here this morning to discuss the outlook for the 2018 wildfire season.

just based on what we already know to date, it doesn't look good. last friday, the national agency fire center, which is a joint operation between the department of interior and the west force service released the monthly file and potential for june through september. warmer and drier than average conditions are anticipated, and southwest in particular is at very high risk for wildfire, due to elevated drought conditions and strong winds. i feel like a weather reporter here. the fire spot unable 27 in central arizona marked the first large-scale wildfire of the season in the west. there are now several significant active fires including the massive blazes in colorado and new mexico. they are already forcing evacuations. already this year, almost 24,000 wildfires have burned about 1.7 million acres across the country. and this is just june 5. the number of wildfires and acres that ultimately burn in 2018

depends not only on wildfire potential and forest conditions, but on the timing of lightning strikes and human caused ignitions. nationwide, people are responsible for starting 84% of the wildfires. and by starting so many, many through human carelessness, people are essentially lengthening the fire season into the early spring and later fall time of the year when lading doesn't have a major role. the eagle creek fire that raged to the columbia river gorge in oregon 2017 started by a teenager that was messing around with firecrackers. this is one of many examples. the 2018 fire season upon us, i want to start with a plea with people everywhere. just please be smart about fire. we can make a measurable difference in what this wildfire season ends up looking like and it starts with being careful. it is also time to execute a multipronged federal state local strategy to meet the

increasing challenges presented by wildland fire in a cost- efficient manner. first, is innovation. our committee discusses innovation at length on the energy side of the policy shop. we also have significant opportunities with respect to land and wildfire management. last fall we held an entire hearing on wildfire technology. i am particularly interested in the use of unmanned aircraft systems, or drones, which are playing greater roles and wildfire management response from detecting, mapping, and helping to contain wildfires. it is far cheaper to operate, maintain, and train personnel on drones, and it also helps reduce risks for pilots, crews, and firefighters. the department of interior in the state of alaska have been early adopters in the use of drones, not just for wildfires. there using the drones to cross its management functions, including to monitor the ongoing volcanic eruption in hawaii.

we can and should do more to embrace technology and land management, including in wildfire management. i know senator is very interested in this as well, so hopefully this will be an area that we can make some bipartisan progress. after that, we have to look for opportunities to increase efficiency and wildland fire operations at the federal level. forest service and department of interior have long coordinated aspect of their suppression program through the national interagency fire center with collaboration that could still improve in procurement, budgeting, information technology, and human capital. one program to focus on his aviation services. i still don't fully understand why forest service and interior have their own separate programs. i have also said over and over, that wildfire is not just a budget problem, it is a management problem, meaning that we must actively manage the forest. in alaska, we have seen the benefits upfront for hazardous fuel reduction and fire breaks before fires start.

back in 2014, a large, strategically placed fuel break between the national refuge saved homes and lives during the massive fire. in 2015, hazardous fuel reduction treatments conducted a few years earlier around reduced the wildfire risk of that community during the fire. the fy 18 omnibus congress divided significant funding to address wildfires. we also provided some new authorities. not necessarily at the level that i believe is necessary, but what we could characterize as a start. the agencies, wanted the authorities, so we certainly expect to them to put them to good use. so, no excuses there. i want to end by saying that to effectively fight fires and manage the land, you must read your agencies of sexual harassment, bullying, and retaliation.

workplace misconduct cannot be tolerated, especially on the fire lines in the field. focus on the mission and be professional about it, and we will be ready to face the consequences. so with that, i would like to welcome the interim chief of forest service, and the director of the office of ireland fire department to the committee. i thank you for being with us today, i look forward to our discussion as we work to reduce wildfires across the country.

the department of interior does unbelievable work on the system. i don't want them to waste one minute re-creating something that should just be the same implementation as the department of interior. i hope they will work on that. i also thank you for the time. i wanted to get started on the release over the weekend by the interagency fire center. for years now the committee has heard over and over that a wildfire is getting worse. climate scientists have been telling us that the season is getting longer and hotter. now the forecast in the pacific northwest will have a july,

august september fire season on the side of what we have seen in the past and being potentially worst -- wars most of the west has received 50% of its precipitation for may. it will likely result in the mountains becoming critically dry by july. the senator and i are concerned about what that means for us. less precipitation and a sooner and dryer environment in which we have to be very mindful of. nearly all of the country experienced temperatures that were above average last month. central washington temperatures were 10 degrees above average. because these conditions are supposed to last through september, places like -- will experience more large fires starting in july.

areas in washington, and i know we have a couple of fires already started in our state, hopefully we will be working quickly to put those out that it is an early reminder of how challenging the season will be. areas in washington and in oregon and i know my colleagues will be from idaho, east of the cascades will likely bring more large fires than we have seen in the last few years starting in august. given that we are looking at the summer, i want to make sure that we are ensuring that fire feeders -- firefighters have every tool they need to fight these fires. they need to be as safe as possible and as efficient as possible. everyone here has heard us talk about the complex that we had in washington a few years ago where 149,000 acres burned up literally in a single day. the following year the fires in washington were even worse. we witnessed firsthand the disaster and the aftermath and

what that means for people in the communities. the heroic men and women firefighters did everything they could to be ready and we need to do everything we can to be ready for the fire season. fires are becoming more lethal. part of the presentation that was given last week in the wild and conference and that was since 1910, we have had more than 1000 deaths from wildland fires. the more sobering number is more than one quarter of those, 255 have occurred in the last 15 years. you can see that they literally are becoming more lethal. when we get to the question, i will definitely ask about efforts on modernization. we want to make sure that every tool is there for the while line -- wildland firefighters. we want to make sure that the

modernized fire shelters are developed and implemented in a way that we know the safety and training of those wildland firefighters have an understanding of that equipment. we had a very unfortunatath in the 30 mile fire in which the been deployment of shelters wasn't really successfully deployed and the tragic loss of life in the pacific northwest. is you now deploy new shelters and wildland firefighters have very few hours of literal training as compared to the permanent firefighters, we want to make sure that everybody is trained and adequate and not as -- no over expectation of being someplace that they shouldn't be. we want to work with you on that. we also want to have more response to wildfires. they need to be able to use those technologies to give them the most efficient resource.

and we also want to be very strategic about protecting communities that are in the wildland and urban interface as soon as possible. in march, we took an important step by addressing the problem and members of this committee worked very hard on -- dedicated to wildfire. many of the people here in this room worked very hard on that. it help the for service have adequate resources to respond to wildfires. we provided significant funding for firefighting for the next few years. and get out of the fire borrowing. i hope that there's enough money that is there on the non-fire program that will benefit the communities, as well, especially increase in funding that will help us to do prevention and treatment in advance and prevent the loss of the for service non-fire account.

what was included in the package that we think would make it easier, obviously we can partner better with the for service and take advantage of that. they were called out last time, i think for the first time in decades. the dnr was called to the line. that's how bad the fire season was. we hope the good neighbor project will be implemented. we hope that vegetation management and power lines is implemented. we hope the 20 year contract -- on laminated timber is eliminated. we hope the for service will do all they can to reduce few was in advance. i want to highlight this interesting article that you showed up in the journal of forestry. it basically shows that the research shows that per acres burned on a wildfire in august, it took more than five times as much -- as much as a controlled

burn in may and june. i know that -- at the same time, this is one of the dilemmas that we have been fighting. i guarantee if you could of puget sound, would you tolerate a little bit of smoke in those months. to reduce the constant summer wide haze that has been present because of fire. i guarantee you they would say yes. do the prescribed burning in the month -- it will help us control these burns and the most significant way. obviously we have more work to do on that. think that article showed that the most -- we need to push through on this. i will be asking also mr. christiansen about the shift to contract workers and the water tankers and water scooper's and including the trend -- call

when needed. i want to make sure that you have every tool available to you. want to make sure we are not just going with one resource because is the larger pot of money. i would feel better that you had every tool available. we know that the water does not put out the fire. the retardant does. but it starts in this dry season and communities that are so stretched and when the entire upper part of the northwest washington and northeast washington was on fire, basically communities were suspending themselves, having that kind of error ability to help mitigate is so, so important. i understand that we will get to the air tanker. i just want to say that that

last year fire management requested but did not receive an air tanker 371 times because it was not available. if your goal is to have the most resources. i want you to have the most resources, too. i don't want you to have to give up one for the other. let's work together on figuring out how we get you both and what will be a continue to be a challenging fire season. let's just work fast enough, the changing climate and environment is making fire a more challenging environment for the for service, for the wildland firefighters and for the communities. we put a down payment on a but we need to do so much more. i think everybody for having this important hearing. >> thank you. we will now turn to the witnesses this morning. the interim chief of the forest service and the department of

agriculture, we appreciate you being here. we ask you keep your comments to about five minutes. we do have two votes that are expected to begin at 11 a clock. -- 11:00. very timely issue. >> madam chair, members of the committee, thank you for inviting me back to testify. i would like to touch on three topics today. the wildfire a look at our preparation to respond, the progress to include for us conditions and reduce fire risk. an update on our actions to create a safe respectful workplace. above average wildfire activity appears to be our new normal. forecasters predict 2018 will rival last year's historic season and the federal government spent $2.9 billion

fighting fires. they predict above average significant fire potential in 11 western states of various kinds between now and the end of september as senator cantwell displayed. firefighting is not solitary work. no one organization can do it alone. we rely on the cooperation and shared resources with tribes, federal agencies and local agencies. our collective resources, we maintain what we need to effectively respond. the for service itself has 10,000 firefighters, 900 engines, and hundreds of available aircraft. our firefighting efforts suppressed 98% of all buyers of 10 acres or less. we are also taking steps to better manage cost for fire response. we know there is no blank

check. we will make decisions to ensure we spend dollars in the right place that will make the difference. we are evaluating and using cost centers to ensure we are most effective with taxpayer dollars. in addition to wildfire response, our work is deeply about improving for us conditions and providing for uses and experiences and services. with the help of congress, we are equipped with new tools to help us get more done. it is our time to deliver and we are making steady progress. by june 8, all of our groups will submit to your plans that will demonstrate how they are going to employ the new authorities. they will include the modified agreement, use of new categorical exclusions for wildfire resilience, and optimal locations for the 20

year contract. we also look forward to submitting our blueprint in high-risk areas. we are already seeing increased results. we will spend 3.4 board feet of timber this year while in -- improving the resiliency and health of 3 million acres. we have increased the number of acres by 36%. timber harvest road -- grew 13% last year. we are delivering it earlier than we have. at this point, we have harvested nearly 30% more timber than we did last year. are 2018 timber target is the highest it has been in two decades. we have also strengthened cooperation at state and other partners to be more work. the increase worked with state has resulted in 150 good neighbor agreements and 34

states. when agreement in utah resulted in 36 projects that will improve over 36,000 acres. we are fundamentally reforming our internal processes and it is paying off. we are streamlining are planning over the last eight months and it has decreased the time to authorize projects. this has reduced cost to eight months by $30 million. we are updating our technology to expedite timber sales and are shovel ready work has also increased to build on our momentum in 2019. there is much more work to do. we are off to a productive start. finally, our mission depends on a skilled, motivated workforce. we will continue to act with

urgency to end harassment and retaliation in the for service. next week, over 30,000 employees will take part in a full day session called stand up for each other. employees will receive a new code of conduct and mandatory harassment training with our broad new policy. you have my personal commitment to do whatever it takes to bring about change in the for service. we will ensure your investment to make a difference to americans to preserve healthy, productive forests and the government that works for them. thank you madam chair and members of the committee. >> thank you. welcome to the committee. >> good morning, chairman. members of the committee and ranking chairman cantwell. we will discuss 2018 outlook.

and the fire management program. as we have heard this morning, 2018 is shaping up to be another challenging year. cumulative impact of invasive species and the steady accumulation of vegetation are creating landscapes are more susceptible to large devastating costly wildfires. so far this year we have seen large fires in the south the midwest, and especially the southwest. by all indications, we can expect the fire season in the west to be comparable to the previous years as evidenced by the outbreak of fires in the southwestern colorado. we will continue to mobilize department personnel, deploy engines and air tankers and other firefighting assets in support of a fully interoperable firefighting effort. as secretary zinke and secretary produce recently reaffirmed to all wildland fire

leadership in both departments, the protection of firefighters and public safety is the top priority for every wildland fire activity and management decision. effective wildfire response is also built on trust. on teamwork and on collaboration among firefighters and their partners. the workplace is free from harassment and where all members of the firefighting community have a strong trust relationship with their colleagues, it is critical to achieving a safe and effective response. the department of the interior recently implemented comprehensive anti-harassment policies to take meaningful steps to address harassment by stepping up training and establishing in a clearly defined training a resolution process so that all employees,

including those on the fireline, can focus on the mission. to reduce the threat of wild first, it is critical we take a more active approach to the management of vegetation on our nation's forests and rangeland. the directive to all department personnel, secretary zinke emphasize the importance of active management as a way to reduce hazards and establish by resilient landscaping communities. a cornerstone of this policy is the integration of vegetation management in all resource management planning. it is a way to reduce fuels and improve forest health and to protect lives and their communities. and prevent catastrophic wildfires. vegetation management when done collaboratively with the partners or done directly by bureau and department manage land is one of the most effective strategy in mitigating risk. coupled with more aggressive education, management,

technologies helping us provide and manage catastrophic wildfires. using the aircraft systems is a perfect example of technology and leveraging it to fight wildfires and pay -- and more safer ways. we conducted over 700 ua s missions on more than 70 wildfires and we are on track to surpass that this year. versatility of ua f is making a big difference in the way that we are fighting wildfires and we can provide real-time data and information that is used to improve surveillance and reconnaissance. we assist firefighters with detecting hotspots, improving mapping, decreasing the effectiveness of monitoring. we are exploring a number of new technologies including applications and alert systems that improve firefighter safety and collaboration with department of defense. i would like to point out that the department is widely using

ua s to support natural resource management. and research and recognition. last week the usgs the survey carried out search and rescue mission in white when the mount kilauea volcano erupted. they spotted an individual quartered by a lava flow. the remote pilot using the ua s, was able to safely navigate the individual to a search crew that ultimately lead that person out of harms way. we look forward to working collaboratively with our partners throughout the while line community to build on these efforts in ways that support the safety of firefighters in the public and the firefighter capabilities. i hope it goes without saying but i will say it anyway, thank you for the sustaining support of this community and the weld line -- wildland community.

i'm happy to answer any questions. >> thank you both. let me begin with a question. i appreciate that both of you have addressed the issue of workforce misconduct. harassment -- and what you are doing to bring about a very necessary changes to rid the agency of sexual harassment. in all forms -- and all forms of workplace misconduct. you've got a code of conduct that has been introduced, mandatory training. you have also indicated that you have a new antiharassment policy. you referenced those that -- the training includes those that are on the fire lines.

chief christiansen, is the outreach here for the training and the full day session that you referenced, is this including those in the firefighting ranks, or is it people within your administrative offices, who are we covering here? what is the extent of these two policies? >> thank you. yes, it is for everyone of our permanent and seasonal employees. that's why we waited until the second week of june, when the majority of the seasonal are on board now. we are shutting down the business for one day and rolling it out one day each week to focus on this training. and the importance of breaking the silence. and what it really is going to

take to shift the culture sustainably. we started with the learning sessions across the whole organization and that did not include the seasonal. that really was -- we needed to demonstrate as leaders what was really being felt in the workforce. that really fueled the design for the stand up for each other plan for next week. about 18 months ago, we passed a very broad anti-harassment policy and we have been working on the agency specific training with real agency examples and real employees. we recorded our own training and that will be discussions at every workgroup across our organization. administrative, field step, fire staff, the headquarter staff.

each work unit will identify what they need to make commitments to each other to improve the work environment. we started with an enhanced reporting center, we open that up in the fall of 2017. so that the fear of retaliation, attended the -- reduce the fear of retaliation. we wanted to hear if someone had any concerns. >> what action is taken if it is reported and this is a situation out in the field. you have an active far and away and people are working. how do you enforce this? it is nice to be able to say that we have a one-day training session and then you go out for the season but it is not like you are reporting to somebody in an office back here. i think this has been one of those very significant concerns -- out in the field, it is a

different environment. there is more that is acceptable. >> you are right. that is getting into what is our culture. folks are being very clear about what is not acceptable. changing those behaviors and then there are structural things that will allow reporting in different ways. even if you are in the field, if that's there is a 1-800- number that will pick up -- someone that has a complaint and reported to and then we have timelines, actions must be taken within 24 hours. to look into and investigate and to evaluate the situation. and to take corrective action. >> quickly, on the deal i said, -- doi side, you have a similar

process for reporting and required action? >> the policy that was recently put in place in doi has very rigid expectations for managers and supervisors and timelines to respond. there is a tremendous focus on ensuring that that process really explores and understands -- and provides inquiry and investigation and it is rigid. expectations go along with the follow-through. i think to the point of in the field, especially in these areas where these incidents and where we have a diverse organization there are contributing as both of the departments, i think they're starting to put in much more rigid expectations for how behaviors, inappropriate

behaviors will be treated. and we anticipate that that will generate more interaction when these things occur. we have had a dialogue at senior management level, not only between interior and agriculture but with the partners across the entire community of state, local and and tribes. in those inter-agencies settings to ensure that these incidents occurring, where this occurs, when we have this real diverse sort of community, all working together, we don't lose track of those complaints. we are following those back to the home organization to essentially ensure that the

people are being held responsible for their behavior. >> do we know from an oversight perspective, back to you -- to make sure that this is more than a one-day training. this really is about changing the culture that has been allowed to take over the agency. it has been an extraordinarily black mark and we need to correct that. we want to keep -- >> thank you madam chair. we were all together at the department of ag between the department of interior and the forest service. i felt that last week the department of interior awarded four contracts to companies to operate meetings and to be able to for wildfires. i'm proud to say that one of those was -- southwest washington in northeast oregon.

it stands in columbia and is in both sides. we are so proud of that technology. most importantly, we are proud that interior is being very aggressive about using this tool on wildland fires and we want to make sure that there is now no barrier between the for service and interior working together to implement this. this is so critical for information about fires, start, safety and security of the firefighters. is there anything that is holding us cup from being aggressive about this deployment during the first season. do you have to do anything to make sure these tools are now used across the agency or implemented. >> senator cantwell, thank you for that question. i am pleased to say that this is an example that we are

coordinating together. the for service is clearly looking to be early adopters in the innovation that doi has really stepped out on. we found that instead of us spending the dollars and the time to do this innovation -- we are absolutely committed, we are drafting on them if you would, if i might say, their policies and their procedures. to make sure that we have interoperability so that we don't have a policy and procedures that are different. the office of aviation services at doi has been helpful and the policies and procedures and they have been training the trainers for our staff. we can access their contracts at any time as well as the state and others. we are not ashamed to say that we applaud the department of

interior colleagues and we are also seeing the very strong use and innovation and safety aspects of using ua as on fire and look forward to having -- beyond the surveillance. >> anything else? >> thank you for the record and thank you, vicki. that the easy answer is yes. the call when needed, the contract is available and not only for the first service but it is being administered at the national asset the way we administer other national assets. it is available across really the community on those large -- >> i assure you we will need them. thank you. >> to the air tanker issue. i am concerned that we are spending 35% of the air tanker

on call when needed. we had a talk about this before. the fact that call when needed contracts are more expensive for a day but yet i think to get them, you have to call them every day. they are on call. what i'm trying to understand is how we are going to supplant that for the panoply of resources in the past. i'm trying to understand, is this about going deep with resources from a -- perspective or truly believe that call when needed as it relates to the services are the most cost- effective way for taxpayers? >> that is a really good question. as i said earlier, we will monitor closely that balance between the upfront expenditures

for exclusive use and how much we actually need them. this is the yes, more expensive but we pay for them when we use them, call when needed. it is an art and a science. the science part is looking backwards. we have to look forward to be honest, we would like to rebalance in the in coming years. we need to have a little bit more balance between exclusive use and call when needed. we were in transition you and your -- in this year. this is a transition year. >> i still appreciate you saying that because i want you to have every single tool you need. i want you to have air tankers. i know that you had one from

the department of defense and i'm not sure if you will use it. i want you to have the water's cooper's and the large -- want you to have every single asset. hope you will work with us to figure out how to make this not a transitional season here. but like a season where you have every tool at your disposal. that's what people in the west want us to be doing. they want us to give them every tool possible to fight the fire season. thank you. >> thank you. thanks so much for being with us today. a couple of questions. the national interagency fire center outlook for the summer 2018, largely contains positive news for wyoming. we know how quickly the ground conditions can change. across wyoming, we had above every snowpack and spring runoff. that has contributed to the below normal fire potential.

higher precipitation as you know can mean rapid grass growth which can drive by august which means trouble. we talked to wyoming and they said -- every six years the sixth year -- wyoming will see fires this year. the questions remain about forest health. improving coordination among agency partners and how we can best do that. a lot of this comes down to the millions of acres in the system across the west affected by bark beetles. we have had diop's and i'm sure your -- die offs. you both identified the need to reduce hazardous fuels. both agencies have tools to take preventive action including those provided in the omnibus funding bill. in wyoming, where there is a lower potentially fire season expected, this could happen.

it's easy to have the flexibility that you need to take advantage of certain years and adapt fuels and treatments as the year goes on in real- time. and increase preventive measures. try to get ahead of the curve. >> senator, thank you for that. i don't mean to burst your bubble but the white on the map that senator cantwell pulled up, doesn't mean it is below normal, it means it is normal conditions. we still will see fires. >> you don't have as much red in wyoming. >> we have to use every tool in the toolbox because of these hazardous fuels. those mechanical treatments, it is -- fire will help reduce you'll loads in many of these -- sometimes they need both.

we have more favorable conditions, we need to take advantage of those operating windows, both on fire severity and smoke management. very good comment. in senator cantwell's opening statement, we are working with the public on how we manage smoke. terms that number of us care for but that will improve conditions. we just had a two hour call with the leadership across the country about how we deploy resources, not only for fires and wildfire response but hazardous fuel and other important treatments. we are on that. that's a critical part -- >> thank you. >> for interior, a lot of the efficiencies for example in the omnibus largely would focus on forest authority.

so we are largely still operating in this framework that we had operated in in the interior in terms of planning, projects and then ultimately working to put them on the ground. we are very much focused interior on streamlining those existing, that existing framework and they were making good headway there. ultimately projects -- there is an aspect of projects needed to have that planning to help drive them. we are still very much doing that but by the same token, conditions on the ground in addition to values that are at risk and their exposure, potential exposure to wildfires, weather conditions and having the right conditions to be able to get in there and be proactive, vegetative but is very part -- very much a part of the equation. >> ms. christiansen, the black

hills national forest, on the advisory board -- board of supervisors and the various stakeholders, the board is currently experiencing a number of vacancies and nominations have to be approved by the secretary so it takes time. without approval pending nominations, for april into may meetings, they will have to be canceled because there aren't enough members. they plan to meet in june but again, with this many vacancies, that will have to be canceled. any update on the situation and the nominations? >> senator grasso, we hear your concern and we are making this a priority to get the willing nominations in and have the vetting done and working closely with the secretary -- i know he is also committed because being a good neighbor is having everyone at the table to have a voice and how the land is

manage. it is a challenge for us. >> thank you. >> senator wyden. >> thank you. thank you ms. campbell for your leadership. we have the fire borrowing language on the books. ms. christiansen, we look forward to getting the plan at the end of june on how you will deal with the backlog on how the fuel reduction that we talked about during this committee and i very much appreciate the fact that you have been in discussions with us about how you will be attacking that. i look forward to that as well. i think the country very much wants to know the game plan for reducing the hazards of fuel. for the country, and sometimes it is the -- it is the individual senators running with the bureau, are citizens are so concerned about this. for the country, meat is the

ominous month for fires. that's really traditionally gives you a sense of where the things are. many of my colleagues said it looks like we will have some real challenges in oregon the summer. by the way, the friends -- the proposition, we wish you were with us today because he's in new mexico where he's dealing with fires. not some kind of abstract theory. let me, if i might, talk about the air tanker issue. my state -- they felt they didn't have enough tankers last summer. i think a lot of people are gonna listen to this and say well, they are playing a shell game. this kind of tanker and that kind of tanker. i know that is not your management. let me ask you this way. you've got this plan, let's say

there are not enough tankers. period. lives are on the line. lives that sometimes can be affected by hours, not even days. what do you do with that kind of situation? >> well, senator, we really appreciate the concerned that the citizens have and i would be delighted if we could have a little window into the intelligence and the predictive services and the 24 hour decision-making that is done at the geographical area and the national area. so when we are in those preparedness levels, levels four and five, where nationally, we have to prioritize the resources, each geographic area, senator

cantwell and you, and the specific northwest geographical area, the executives and their chief fire leadership our meeting hourly and updating the situation. that leads to the national interagency fire center. where the national group, all of the representatives -- >> let me stop you. that is constructive and in english. so much of what goes on in fires is hard to comprehend. i believe what you just said is you use your. active service and then on an ongoing basis really hourly, then able to deploy the assets you have. what if you don't have enough assets? in other words, you make a judgment. you don't have enough assets.

or even the best plan -- you don't have enough assets. what do you do then? >> it is a prioritization. that's what i was getting at. it's a period of prioritization of the most critical -- human communities, generally critical. then we do have additional crews -- capacity that we can bring on. >> where is the surge capacity coming from. are these tankers that are somewhere else? are they part of the two categories? a third category? >> yes. >> a third category you can bring in but you don't have enough? >> the department of defense. the mobile aviation unit, the mobile unit. >> how many are there? >> seven? seven. seven of those and generally by

the time we are in the significant part of the fire your, in the west, we can bring in some from canada. and additional capacity and then we are putting out additional call when needed and later in the summer, we anticipate having five more call when needed. >> i am over my time. i want to close by saying i think you are working hard at this. your plan -- that is key. i would like for you to also furnish -- a written answer to what i just asked about. when there aren't enough tankers. i remember not hearing a lot about this for this surge capacity group of tankers. i knew a little bit about -- i chaired the committee and we

talked about this. if you could get this to us when you can. i know you are working hard with this. we appreciate it. >> thank you. i want to make sure that nafta is the partner that you want on the hourly updates. we want to make sure that nasa is giving you the satellite information that you need on an hourly basis. >> we are working with nasa. >> good to see you again. last fire season in montana, it was nearly 1.4 million acres burned it looks like -- it is 680,000 acres and we were left with a great deal of dead and dying timber. it causes a serious public safety risk. that we see significant delays associated with -- the burned area.

they prevent the salvage and other long-term post-fire restoration done in a timely manner. we can't even get into the burned areas to deal with the timber. we know that clock is ticking. chief christiansen, i've heard from many montana's who want to for service to restore emergency situation determination and authority so we get more post-fire work done sooner. as you know, i encourage you to approve the request for the fires in montana last year and you provided an update. >> thank you. i have to say i am quite pleased with our staff in montana. they activated quickly and we put together a strike team to work on the -- of the communities and with industry on what would be the ideal place

that industry could receive the salvage material. using the emergency situation determination, very important tool to use. for both health and safety and for the imminent threat of fire declining rapidly. i assigned one of those and i expect the sunrise project on the local national forest. regional forest are martin and -- expect to receive. for my confidence to sign the next four and i will have those within the next few weeks. >> that is refreshing. thank you for hearing that. giving the lengthy approval process, what can congress do to encourage faster and more extensive use of this tool by the agency? >> thank you, senator.

i think it is understanding the process and the balance. obviously we take this tool very seriously. we need to not abuse it. we want to be strategic and really look for areas where those health and safety or critical decline in the product or in place. your voice in the community, we would like to be there early involvement. in the scoping. we could move out quickly. we do this in a transparent way with communities and citizens. your help in getting communities to work with us quickly i think will help down the line. and your continued support of the tool that we can sustain and uphold it. thank you, chief. is to report, we discussed the economics of the environmental

benefits of carrying out restoration efforts. as quickly as possible. following large fires on the doi land. >> sure. so restoration, to identify that as a difference in how we approach emergency stabilization. so restoration, rehabilitation, we get into that, i think in a lot of ways it is location, location. there are many areas around the country where getting in there immediately, and this is sort of a local stakeholder driven need that i think we have here. there are some places where getting in there and immediately getting work on the ground, immediately getting trees replanted. that is absolutely making the most sense to get it back to a

healthy state. and economically supported. there other parts of the country where frankly, we probably don't want to get in there immediately because the conditions that are going to really lead to successful restoration may not be in place until later in the year or a different season or after we have -- i mean a whole variety of different circumstances. i think it's sort of depends based on location. there are many examples where the faster we can do it, the faster we can get in there and the better. >> chief, you addressed the litigation -- the restoration part. >> litigation takes clearly focus away from getting the work done. it prevents the critical restoration, the fire resiliency that we are trying to achieve. it is frankly gives pause to

the staff -- pretty risk-averse. if we could work with forks early -- folks early in a collaborative process, we are always willing to work it out. litigation on the backend really slows down important critical work. >> wrapping up, as you know, the most recent forecast from the national interagency fire -- normal fire department -- far potential for antenna is above normal. here we are in montana with the snowpack well above average. flooding in many parts across the state. as you mentioned, there's a lot of -- it looks like we need to buckle up for another tough

fire season. congress recently provided authority for the for service but much more needs to be done. i look forward to working with you to -- for litigation protection and the reduction of red tape for the restoration project to get done. thank you. >> thank you. >> senator cortez. >> thank you both for being here. let me initially associate these comments of the chair about sexual harassment. and addressing the issue in the agencies. mr. christiansen, i couldn't agree with you more. we have to be vigilant and constant and we have to have policies in place. i look forward to working with you in addressing this issue. let me talk about lake tahoe. lake tahoe is important for

both nevada and california. i know ms. christiansen, this is an issue that we talked about in the past. over 74% of the area around lake tahoe is public land, managed by the for service. after decades of sire. -- fire suppression, it is highly vulnerable. catastrophic wildfires. they like the diverse -- to support a healthy forest ecosystem. this is essential to the safety of the community and the health of the forest. the threat of a catastrophic wildfire is the top concern for the entire community in both states. with the increasing outlook for above normal far potential in northwest nevada, you can see from the map, what precautions do you recommend as far as this area? >> thank you senator. let me make a quick comment on

the work environment. it is not a one-day training. this is a starting point of a long journey. in regard to lake tahoe. it is an emblem of a community at high risk. high population and it is a good example of a community that is working across boundaries together. you know, i hate to say this but it is working quite up front at any fire and sometimes several years of working across boundaries. on both getting the resiliency of the land in better shape as you suggested, and the community prepared to have fires and being fair adaptive. the tools added to the 2012 farm bill that was recently

passed in the omnibus, a great step forward for us, to be able to move more quickly, to get more done and to stabilize when the fire funding takes place. -- we can do the best on the ground. and internally it will help us get more work done and am proud that we've increased 36% work across the land. that's with the interior and with the state and local partners. the principles of what we call the national wildland fire strategy, we have the resilient landscape -- effective risk based fire -- i have an invitation to get me out to lake tahoe and i have been

there a couple of years ago. it is a great example for we have great leadership working out there. >> thank you. that is the focus in the area. and area where the senators have come together and the local communities have. we appreciate your being there. let me jump back to the conversation that senator cantwell talked about. i don't think people realize, when there are fires going on in the northwest in particular, is not just the residence that are impacted, we see the smoke and haze in southern nevada. so it has an impact on the region. for that reason, i am curious, what is it that you are looking to address from the health benefit or the health effects when it comes to that haze. and the issues affiliated with any type of wildfire.

i know you haven't office of environmental health. it studies the event and their impact in particular but my understanding is that is underfunded, is that correct? >> environmental health? >> is that not true? >> i am not familiar with that. >> i can speak to a partnership that the greater wildland fire community entered into with the center for disease control. they really are helping us study both the fuel type from prescribed fire and wildfire and the time of year and not only show that the quantity of smoke is different as senator cantwell expressed in his report, but the type of. particular matter -- between wildfire smoke and -- were

really clear that we have a solid partnership with the cdc that will really accelerate us having the public conversation about how we deal with smoke. >> another department has talked about -- >> i am not familiar. we can look more specifically into that and give you a good response to that particular question about that office. i would say that if we look at where we are now, and where we want to go in the future, we are starting to deal with this issue -- there's lots of interaction between the wildland fire community and their managers, and others. and essentially, i think the shared vision here is that we are much better off under a prescribed fire where we control the circumstances and the volume

and the character of the smoke in the air. as opposed to catastrophic uncontrolled wildfires where we have no control whatsoever. >> thank you both. >> thank you, senator. let me ask about the vegetation management division that we included in the omnibus. chief, can you give me a status report on the implementation of these provisions that we had included -- i think we recognized that we were thinking about the physical integrity of transmission and distribution infrastructure, this is key. key to protect the security and liability of our energy grid. where talking about wildfires. can you give me an update? >> certainly.

we have moved swiftly and we have given -- we have done a full analysis of the divisions and we gave some specific directions to the regions. as you know, they will be getting us some plans by the end of this week on the utility right-of-way in the vegetation management that is too opportunistic. every one of the regional for service -- i have asked them to describe how they are prepared to deal with the response times that the utilities will require so that we can be timely in allowing the vegetation management projects to more forward. so, it is basically directed to the region to be ready and how they prioritize when those requests come in from the utilities and to work with them in advance and know what that workload would look like. >> are the folks at fpl m and

the for service coordinating on the implementation effort? >> there has been very active ongoing engagement coordination coming and looking -- coming up with different approaches with blm as well as into the process. it is very close to release and informational memorandum, essentially reinforcing the timelines and expectations for implementation. >> this is the end of the session with regard to the unmanned aerial systems. how does be a light and the office of wildland fire coordinate with for service in terms of its program. are you both operating

separately -- is there some level of communication and coordination on the assets? >> maybe i will start. the interior -- ues drones operations aren't strictly wildfire. in fact the majority of the drone missions that are flown in the interior are resource missions. surveys, inspections, and in the case of wildfires, we have a fleet, i think we are approaching 500 doi owned drones. we have several hundred certified operators, many of those operators are qualified who can operate on a wildland fire. as the coordination occurs without wildfire, it is really

similar in terms of establishing those interoperable standards that allow us to go into these incidents that we know we have certified qualified operators that are capable of piloting these drones in that environment. to support the incident response. so in a lot of ways, it is very similar to how we coordinate you know, oliver -- all other aspects of the wildland fire. that is a another aspect of the drone implementation, we have taken the community -- the inflammation standard interoperable approach. >> do you have any sense as to the savings that we might be able to attain by using drones?

obviously from a safety perspective, it is clear there. but in terms of using the traditional aircraft versus drones, some of the more traditional wildfire tasks, you have a sense of that cost savings? >> we don't have specific dollars but like any buildup investment, what we imagine and what we can get to, as mr. rubin said, as a resource -- the forest health protection that we do across the nation, when we can get that with having drones instead of the aerial surveys, it is in the magnitudes of tends that the potential savings is. we are in the innovative stage to see how far we will be able to go saving people with cameras.

we imagine it will be great and we will incrementally work ourselves to that. >> let me ask about that. i was in south-central alaska and i was struck by the amount of bark beetle kill that we saw beyond the valley and up toward denali. it is an area that i had not really noticed the kill. obviously the kenai peninsula has been decimated some years back. unfortunately, we are seeing some evidence and this is done through aerial surveillance, we are seeing evidence that the beatles may be back. my understanding that the bark beetle has already decimated over 6 million acres.

1.3 million and more than 30 million on the kenai peninsula. alone. again we pay close attention to this because of the potential for increased fire, particularly in the kenai peninsula right now. it is not just the kenai peninsula, it might -- just in this morning, newspapers around the state, we had a fire downstate that was in the tongass national park. a small one went up this morning. there was another one in interior off of rosie creek road. from the area where i grew up. it is far season for us.

we are projected to have a normal year but for us, normal is oftentimes 1 million acres. this is something that we watch with a great, great interest. what are the agencies doing to work together, again not just within doi and for service but with the state as we are dealing with some of the beetle kill issue and again the resurgence that we see that on kenai. that might be moving into south-central areas. >> senator, the recent aerial detection surveys in 2017, there were 27 million acres flown in alaska and over 840,000 acres there was recorded for us damage. it is correct, it is in south- central and there was over 400,000 surveyed. largely in the kit napa valley

and in that area. it is across all lands. we are working collectively -- we have put together a group. this is the division of forestry and alaska -- >> as i understand, that task force was focused on the kenai peninsula. are you expanding that to a broader area? >> >> yes. that is my understanding. there's the spruce beetle website and we also have awarded special technology development grants to developed lands that to develop methods that have a broader look, especially in detecting both the path and

presents across alaska so this will help us monitor the insect and disease activity on a larger scale. we are working in southeast alaska, the largest area and a smaller process of the beetle activity in the largest is in the glacier bay national park. so the protection program is collaborating with monitoring the summer. we are clearly working across boundaries in the park, as well. >> as we know, is not just in alaska. it has been raised by other colleagues. again, making sure that the force management tools that we provided you in the omnibus is to do more when it comes to whether there is prescribed

burning -- every effort that we can use to make that fire risk lower and as it relates to working to address the management reform that we all know is critically important. we have one more vote. and the absence of other colleagues here this morning. if folks do have questions, for the record, we will make sure they come to your attention and we would ask that you respond to this. i do want to ask one more question. this relates to the areas in the tongass. you know my position on a, i think the road didn't make sense in a place where it's an area made up of 32 island communities.

so as we are looking to access within the tongass, the big focus has been of course on the limitations that are provided by the road crew. you have a petition from the state of alaska that asks for that exemption. from the road in the tongass. last time you were here, we had a conversation about about this and the for service plan. can you give me and up -- update on the status of the petition and when the for service might act on the petition? >> thank you senator. absolutely. secretary purdue and governor walker spoke on friday, this past friday.

they agreed to pursue state specific roadless rule to address the concerns as swiftly as possible. of the tongass national forest. and the access for timber, energy development and many other forms of access on the tongass. we are working closely with the state to align the resources to get started. the for service has identified funding and actually the resources and people in staffing and expertise to get started and we are in close contact with the state and will be glad to keep you up-to-date. >> i appreciate that. perhaps what we might want to do is schedule a meeting with yourself and the secretary to see what is available to

further discuss -- i am cognizant -- confident that with the petitions, my good friend senator rich from idaho was one that led that in his state, he has made clear to me that this is not an easy process, it is not a quick process. it is not a cheap process. making sure that there is a good understanding of what this process for basically moving forward with this case and petition is. how that is clearly outlined, it is certainly my hope that whichever or whatever that process looks like, it does not result in anything less than a full exemption. i would like to be able to

speak with purdue and the secretary about the petition. again, understanding how we can move forward in a way that does acknowledge the reality of the situation that we face in the tongass. i would look forward to more discussions on that. with that, i think -- maybe this question was asked when i was out on the vote. have you -- provided -- the status on the aerial firefighting use and effectiveness study?

that was back in 2012 is my understanding. understand the agency launched the use and effectiveness study. five years ago. my understanding that we really haven't seen any information released from that work. that doesn't make any sense. five years later -- we still haven't seen that released. i don't know if you have addressed this already and if you have, i apologize. can you tell me where we are with that? >> certainly. i have not addressed it yet. as you know, that study would look over a variety of different far situations, the use and effectiveness, are they using it appropriately and how effective is it. this is a major investment.

because it is a critical tool that we want to know that we are using it correctly. i get frustrated as well. it takes the amount of time and the variety of fires in different types of fires to have a reasonable study. it was always intended to be a a five year field data study. they are collecting that now. we will see a draft report in the coming months. it will be finished before 2019. >> i understand what you're saying about how we wanted it to be comprehensive. i think we also recognize that we have, we the congress, have worked to provide you with resources and tools that you been asking for for a long time. you acknowledge that your own

statement that this is not a blank check to us. so making sure that we are doing right by these reforms, we are doing right by these additional dollars that are coming your way for additional resources. we want to be guided and i think we will make some sense. so one of the things that i hear is that when it comes to aircraft to achieve certain objectives, this is somewhat random, what do we have over here -- that is not cost- efficient. that is not using money smartly. i would hope that you are trying to get this into alignment. we are not going to just blow through the resources that we have here just because you have it and next year you promise to do it smarter because you will have the results of the study. if you have information that

can help point you in a better direction, now, i would hope that you are setting yourself up to do just that. >> yes, we are. we actually have implemented last year, the longer study is ongoing and we look forward to the results. i'm getting preliminary briefs soon. we also have the technology now with the scientists to within a 12 hour turn around, have real- time maps in the incident management team where they can see effectiveness of the prior window of response and what that affected. we can burn through the drops

that we thought were effective. we are doing real-time learning as well as the longer-term study. with both of those, we are making adjustments and we will have more information and be glad to work with you on that. >> i would appreciate that. i think you heard similar concerns from both senator cantwell and senator wyden on this. again, we see that yes, these are extraordinarily important assets and we want you to have that. the aviation assets but we also want to know that we are being smart with all of its. that is the request for the study back in 2012 and that is the frustration and that is with my map, we really did put this in place in 2012, we are beyond the five years. >> the first field study was and 13. >> hurry it up. i have no further questions at

this point in time. again, if colleagues have submissions, you will see them. i know it is not a policy but maybe we just pray for rain. we also pray for the safety of the men and women who are out there on the front lines. think we all know that it is very dangerous and we have lost far too many as they have been out there on the front lines. hopefully it will be a safe season. with that, the committee stands adjourned.

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