test. test. test. test. test. test.

how do you take the brilliance of applications and the back end power of the application and turn it into something small in th right way and that is small meaning that it makes it part of your community. if we can help with langua, with access to facilities and transportation then you've gained what you want which is an improved community. >> and that's it, right? it's about the individuals living in the community and the impact on them? >> that's correct. >> it's bringing that connectivity and utilizing it in these smart community, whatever, it's that interaction. >> we have the pleasure of working with the misuse and i did a panel on them on this exact topic and the real lesson to learn that i found from the mayors and others as part of the national league of cities was that idea of community building blocks any it was very simple. what i heard was transportation. how do you get to and from your house and to and from your place

of worship and other activities. how do you engage with the service that the city needs to provide. frankly, how do you enjoy yourself? one of the most profound things that i heard from the national league of cities is a smart city is also a fun city. it's not boring. it's not just gray buildings. it's got to be a city that giviogives you something vibrant to interact with. the question is how do we use iot and how do cities become enablers of a better community? >> that's right. so part of what i also see region transportation th our commission or transportation in nevada and across the country and as we build this infrastructure we better be building the guardrails for privacy and security. it's the easiest time to incorporate those who the infrastructure. >> we talked about coding and the need to ensure that we are

teaching the next generation and the younger generation in the schools coding, but how do we get the talent on the security side? how do we eure we're incorpinity piece of that. that is my biggest challenge, particularly someone who is the former attorney general of nevada and focused on that cybersecurity piece and let me open up the panel. this has been part of the discussion, as well. >> you put your finger on what is clearly going to be an increasinglymportant part of t's just say the development community's responsibilities. we are working right now with the dr. mayfield who i mentioned in the community colleges to perhaps co-partner -- partner with them to put in a cyber curriculum, if you will that might be's the next level of course work to the existing i.t. professionals to get us more

capable. it's certainly -- like all of the other techniques and technologies that we need to use, it's going to have to be developed. it's going to have to be given emphasis and investment because it is ultimately an achilles heel. >> and i would agree with that also. >> what we see constantly is there are older technologies that just don't talk to each other. people are still using things that were written 15, 20 years ago. okay. we want to share this information and they're tryin to talk to each other and share information. well, they can't right now because their systems don't talk to each other. so we're having to write code to be able to integrate it and get one database that you can actually be able to share information and be able to cross reference things. >> we have 270,000 jobs in the security area and anything you can do to help more nevadans and

potential people that you can hire. i'm looking forward to that. >> senator blumenthal? >> thank you, mr. chairman. i want to talk about privacy. your organization stated after the enforcement action four years ago when the punishment never changes and the likeliest outcome is emerging tech companies will approach ftc enforcements, if nothing more than the cost of doing business. you were commenting on the penalties against snapchat over security abuses than nothing more than the cost of doing business and the same is true of facebook as we now learned from the recent revelations about

cambridge analytica. aren't there models or privacy rules that congress should impose at this point? shouldn't we learned our lesson and shouldn't we begin, in fact, with the new european rule? the general data protection and regulation that everybody in europe is now going to have to follow? why should americans be guaranteed less privacy than europeans? >> a couple of quick things. i think that that comment from four years ago, boy, it made me sound smart because it's still true today. i think one of the things that congress can do, this committee in particular and i think more pressure needs to be put on the ftc to do a better job. i think that we now are about to have a full slate of ftc commissioners. the group over there needs to look at enforcement from two lenses. one, which is how do you fix a

problem and how do you use a bully pulpit to make a difference and on the ddpr question, the problem we have is we don't know which gdpr is. less than a week ago we had a series of letters coming out of the article 29 working party that radically changed most interpretations of gdpr. on the gdpr, i think there's still a lot to be seen, what does this mean? how do we implement it? my members are, in fact, taking it seriously. we have a whole series of blogs on how do small businesses comply with gdpr. you may have missed my earlier testimony, every single one of my members and they are part of the global economy and we are taking gdpr seriously and unfortunately with 27 nations, we're not quite sure what it means with all places yet. >> we're not sure what it means in all places, but we know about

the general principle, minimizing data, providing for consent, enabling transparency. there are basic principles here that the ftc is nowhere near adopting, correct? >> so it's great that it's coming from you with your legal background. one of the problems we have are the basic principles and how we want to communicate them with our customers and our users and then the legal requirements that avoid liability which you brought up earlier. so how do we, for example o machine learning. data minimization is great in concept, and it's something that we helped build and something that we're proud of. the know what's inside program with 500-plus developers with thousands of apps for kids and one of the problems when we learn into machine learning is okay. how do i do data minimization and also provide tools for health care. on the point about transparency,

that's great, but i spent a year working with ntia and others to try to develop the sho form privacy notice. when we field tested that with users they wanted something very different. the best results we've seen so far is microsoft and google and just in time notification. meet the customer where they are. tell them how the data is being used when it's being grabbed or taken and tell them how you're going to use it later and finally provide another interface if they want to say, hey, i want that back, but all of the points they raise and the key principles they're outlining are important. how we get there and deal with the liability that you raised from the beginning is the part that we're still working on. >> know that it's a complex area, but my feeling is that the absence of some line in the sand, some bright line, even

though in practice there may have to be complexity in all the sub headings of those principles as applied to different apps and so forth, that that absence will mean nothing is done, and five years from now we'll be having the same conversation, and i just fear that your prediction that the punishment is really changing and never fitting the offense that the cost of doing business will mean that these app developers will just keep pushing the envelope against privacy interest. my time has expired and i'm sorry to end on a pessimistic note. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, mr. blumenthal. i want to apologize for senator hassan, she should have been

recognized before senator blumenthal. >> you can blame it on me. so senator hassan is now recognized. >> thank you, i am having an afternoon where i would like to have roller skates, sitting still for a couple of minutes is a good thing. to all of the panelists, thank you very much for being here. it's excellent to hear from all of you about what the future holds for the mobile economy. from jobs, to new efficiency, to medical uses and our mobile capabilities really do hold great promise and that's why i worked with senator gardner and we worked with others and the legislation that creates a pipeline for the valuable, limited resource and the mobile economy depends on spectrum and i think just before i left to go to my other hearing. the airways act will make major investments and promote innovation and incentivize ongoing investment in this space

and it will also help episure that the united states is prepared to engage in the global race to 5g. to each of you, just briefly, do you agree that additional spectrum is necessary to promote the mobile economy of the future and if you do, do you agree that the steps like those outlined in the airwaves act is necessary for us to thrive and to remain a leader in global 5g? >> yes. absolutely. congress is one of the only bodies that can actually push federal spectrum out to the private sector and i think every legislative act that does so is really good for the economy, and 20 years from now the app economy is going to be divisive and so any way that you can relief spectrum new with a 10-year timeframe is a good thing. >> thank you. >> anyone else want to comment? >> i am getting thumbs up. >> thank you for that answer.

another reason i am glad to be working with senator garner on the airwaves act is we developed on rural economies and communities. new hampshire has significant rural areas that lack the kind of connectivity that we take for granted in urban markets and i expect that that's true in some of the other states represented at this table, as well. the airways act will set aside 10% from the auction and it requires to deploy wireless in underserved areas. this won't be immediate and it is a real down payment on the mobile future for america's rural consumers. it could mean billions of dollars for rural deployment which is serious money even in washington, d.c. do you have thoughts on what steps it might take to bring the economy to rural areas and new hampshire and throughout the country. again, anybody who wants to answer? >> i'll foose mr. forrester.

i'm from an even larger state of alaska and one of the areas, earlier i discussed was the need to how to expand tv spaces to make it possible to do broadband for rural communities and the area that's important to hit on that is empowering rural communities with broadband isn't merely about giving them something to look at or play with. it requires them to stay there and get a job. if mr. forester's case they're training in the area and they don't have to leave mississippi or your great state to work for my companies. so that's exactly right. empowering rural broadband is not something to make people happy. it's to make people employed. >> thank you. >> mr. forester, do you have anything to add? >> in the near-term we're highly focused on employment opportunities that exist with traditional employers who -- but i can tell you that we must

provide this capability broadly across states like yours and mine because so many of these people that are not serviced well otherwise and they can't realize the potential of what they might wish to do. i can see a time when we're not doing a good enough job we're not only meeting mess miss's requirements, proding in other states and as soon as we'r in that position, guess what? we're limited unless we ca provide the very, very high broadband access that they're going to need to be working in off thein and living in mississippi. >> thank you. >> i know others have mentioned this issue, but i just wanted to touch on the whole issue of our mapping. the fcc, as you know is currentl currently working to implement a ra called mobility fund phase 2 which would qualify communities to build out our

mobile networks. unfortunately, the fcc's map of eligible areas is inaccurate and leaves rural communies in my state in kansas in senator wicker's state of mississippi without much recourse. senators moran, wicker and i are working to get these maps updated. however, in the meantime, what additional advice do you have for rural community that hope to keep pace with innovation and what more can we do here at the federal government to exist in rural communities. the universal service fund and the mobility fund and the high cost fund is $4 billion every year. so what this group can do is take a closer look at where is the money going? are weting the best bang for our buck? and it really is a constant streamf money and there is an additional $500 million for

rural broadband recently. where is the money going? so i think more studies and just more inquiries to the fcc, statuspdatesnd studies. >> thank you. i see i'mver time. >> thank you, senator hassan. >> senator markey? >> thank you very much. i love hearings on mobile technologies. unbelievably, back in the early 1980s, the chairman of at&t was asked how many people will have a wireless device that they can carry around by the year 2000 and the chairman of at&t testifying before congress said 1 million people in america will have a wireless device and we'd given them the spectrum for free andhat was the vision, at&t. that wasn't good and we had given another coy, all of this for free.

so i got a little discouraged in that vision of at&t. so in 1993 i was able to move 300 megahertz of spectrum for the third, fourth, fifth, seventh licenses because they were charging 50 cents a minute and the phone was the size of a brick and you saw it on wall street, and so by 1995 and '96 everyone had one of these phones in their pocket. flip phone, under 10 cents a minute which was digital and not analog and ten years later along comes steve jobs and we're moving this way and we just keep moving and moving, you know? in the right direction, but one of the key ingredients is going to be having net neutrality on the books for wireless devices because everything is moving over to wireless, and we know

the history and history is not good. it's a rich, l history that informs everything that we're doing here and net neutrality is something that by necessity has to be on the books in 2005 and north carolina provided a communication block and the online voice service of vonage to favor their own service. comcast was blocking, severely slowing down a website that offered consurs to share video game music files and comcast wasn't happy with that. in 2007 and 2009, at&t forced apple to block skype and offer other competing voice over internet protocol services so that they would just use their power of network control to push

people towards their own services and so the long, rich, history is that the innovation comes from the competitors, but when you're in control of the network your innovation is how do you block? how do you stop and how do you push around those seeking to innovate in the space and it just went on and on, year after year and i can just go through all of the different examples of why net neutrality is needed. so as we move deeper and deeper into this wireless world, can we just go down the line and just ask each of you, did you support the obama-era net neutrality rules when they were put on the books? did you support that, mr. foster? >> i'm probably not a really good source for the comment there -- >> if you don't have a view, you don't have a view on it?

>> i have a personal view. >> what's your personal view? >> that the net should be free and open as it can be and it will continue to drive our economy as a result of that. >> doctor? >> my view is that title was the regime for the last ten, 12 years and so i would say title 1. >> okay. mr. reed? >> we support the four principles of net neutrality and areoo forward to having a solution that holds up over the length of time. >> so you would not put the existing rules back in the books, if you had your druthers? >> we don't have a position on which rules go on with 5,000 members. >> if you wanted the strongest version. that's the version we'll vote on tomorrow is the strongest version. >> it's us being a small company. >> we, of course, want equal representation and we want to have the same speed and access that everyone else including the

large and small companies. >> thank you. and as you know, dr. o, the court struck down the rules when they were in title one and the courts instructed the fcc, they use title 2. so i know what your preference is, but the courts actually struck them down when they moved in that direction. so this is a big, historic vote that we're going to have tomorrow and again in the wireless world, it's going to be absolutely imperative that you can't be discriminated against and you can't be blocked and told what you can do and can't do because this is like oxygen to some people, but to people who aren't so young as well and it's an indispensable part of living in the 21st century and if you want to preach openness around the rest of the world that we shouldn't be trying to teach temperance, we should stand up for it ourselves and that's why this vote tomorrow is the most historic and the most

important vote we're going to have on keeping the internet as open and free as it can be. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, mr. markey. i'm not sure you got the answers you were hoping for, but thank you for the questions. senator udall. >> thank you, chairman wicker. all of you pointed out that the app economy is an innovative part of the economy and has revolutionized how we navigate our lives and we heard senator markey talk a little bit about that history and overview. however, these innovations raise questions about children growing up in a digital world. rents are being forced to make difficult choices between the children's privacy and allowing their children to engage in an increasingly online world. >> we have written to youtube about youtube kids app, directing children to conspiracy theory videos and about the need

to respect the privacy of children, and i also plan on contacting other major app developers and platforms as part of the effort to ensure that children's priva is protected. mr. reid, last month "the washington post" reported on a study by the international computer science institute at the university of california berkeley finding that thousands of children's apps on google play store may be violating the children's online privacy protection act. the article identified popular apps such as disney's where's my water and the minio rush. what does your association believe the federal trade commission should and can do to help prevent violations? >> well, first of all. it has been one of my most interesting exercises over the more than ten years or 15 years i've been working on this to try to figure out the breadth and

scope of kappa. i've actually testified before senator markey when he was congssnarco kappa, and one of the thing that's been fascinating about the problem is we have to figure out how to meet parents where they are. when it comes to developers abiding by kappa, that's the law and they need to do it. we built a network program with more than 500. it started out being called moms with apps and it became the know what's inside program. 500 developers that were fully kappa compliant and here is the interesting part that we ran into. the parents found the friction difficult and the parents were the ones that had to fe out how do you engage better and that's how we started to take a just in time notification. how do we get the parents' attention when it matters and not when i load them up with consent mechanisms and have them move forward. >> how do we comply with kappa's

rigors with 150 items on the faq at this point and meet parents with the way they behaved. that has been one of the most by members by kappa and they want to make sure the kid sees what the kid wants to see. so enfor icement really critical. to get to your main thing, the ftc needs to do more and frankly, i think they need to do more publicly. i personally brought examples of kappa violations to them and they were solved and they were solved quietly. the company fixed their terms of service or fixed the correction and there was no visible flurry in the water and we think ultimately that hurts the ecosystem and they need to use the bully pulpit to take the most obvious offenders and make something out of it so that people understand this is what's allowed and this is what's not, but keeping in mind it's really the parents that we have to make

sure that we educate. >> focusing a little bit and drilling down on the ftc enforcement. in the past two years how often has the ftc enforced kappa violations with app developers? >> so this is the ftc, the reality of the situation which is the ftc has been active behind the scenes in meeting with hundreds and maybe thousands of developer, but in terms of big, public enforcements, we are in a pretty small number at this point in time. >> but that's not to say that they haven't been doing meetings and haven't been bringing people in and having been mead corrections and my thing is where you're headed is, we need to do one of these publicly so that there can be some understanding by both my community and the parental community and what's expected of them, what's expected of us and how do we meet in the middle. >> many of the app developers in

the study are based in lithuania or china and do you think the app developers including those located overseas are fully aware of the requirements of kappa and it's the ftc being aggressive. >> it's fascinating because the worlds are converging and now it's creating a whole series of regimes. they've done a great job on verifiable consent, but they can't do it in europe. i'm having those people come to me and saying how do i meet with gdpr and kappa when one country says 15 and one country says 13? i actually think, weirdly enough where we are right now with gdpr is going to help and i would like the ftc to use their powers to go after specific companies to make people more aware of their requirements. >> great. thank you very much. i know i'm over time, mr. chairman and i'll submit a

couple of additional questions for the record. >> thank you for thecourtesies, chairman wicker. >> many of us went over time today becse it's such a good topic. i want to thank the members of the subcommittee, and the member business of the panel for a very, very fine hearing today. my staff has told me i have to chose with a statement that the hearing record will stay open for two weeks and during this time senators are asked to submit any questions for the record. upon receipt the witnesses are requested to submit their written answers to the committee as soon as possible. and that's about as flexible as

i've ever heard so thank you very much, ranking member shots and other members of the subcommittee and thank you to our panelists. this hearing is adjourned.

>> here's what's coming up today on c-span3. up next, a discussion in changes in counter terrorism strategies from the obama to e trump administration. after that, john sopco, special inspr general for afghanistan reconstruction presents his office's latest report in efforts to stabilize that country and the global economic and national implications resulting from the