i wrote a book critical about barack obama which is called "buyer's remorse" which i got a lot of crap from. if john mccain felt his party was not living up to what he believe the republican party to be, he was willing to say say. >> watch "after words" sunday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span2 book t.v. federal railroad administration had ronald betory update rail safety. and progress on positive train control or ptc, an automated system designed to stop trains if certain dangers, such as excessive speed or potential collision are detected. he testified before a senator

appropriation subcommittee. the hearing will come to order. good afternoon. let me begin by apologizing to our witnesses, we are midst of two roll call votes. i've casted the first one, the

ranking member, senator jack reed is voting right now. we're going to try to keep switching back and forth. obviously, these votes were not scheduled at the time we scheduled this hearing, that's the way the senate is. but we are going to proceed. today, ourcoe is holding an oversight hearing on the department of transportation's rail safety programs. i am very pleased that i will be joined by senator jack reed, the subcommittee's invaluable ranking member. i also want to welcome our panel of disgoished witnesses, we are joined today by ron betory, the administrator of federal railroad administration steven gardner, the vice president and chief commercial officer of am track. patricia quinn, the executive director of the northern new england passenger rail

authority. and art leije, the ceo of the commuter rail in southern california. the issue of railroad safety has received heightened attention recently due to several disturbing accidentsism last december, an amtrak train derailed in dupont, washington killing three people and injuring 60 on the inaugural run of a new line. the engineer was speeding on a curved track, nearly 50 miles per hour above the speed limit. in january, closer to home, members of congress were involved in a highway/railroad grade crossing crash. witnesses report that a truck entered the crossing when the gates were down. unfortunately this type of

accident occurs all too frequently. in february, another amtrak train collided with a sting freit train i south carolina because it was diverted on to a track that had been taken out of service. these three accidents illustrate the variety of challenges we face in improving the safety of our rail roads. the rail industry safety record has improved in some areas, with the number of derailments declining by 35% since 2008, despite increasing service levels. last year, however, the number of the accidents and increase compared to 2016. among these incidents were several serious commissions that

led toffeetalties that in some cases would have been avoided with the use of proven technologies, such positive train control or ptc, as ll as improvements to the safety hrough better training. i'm all too aware of one such accident in lock magenga, in canada in 2013 which resulted in death of 47 residents, just 30 miles from the main border. in 2014, our subcommittee held a hearing on the accident and the transportation of crude oil by rail. increased the number of railroad inspectors at fra, improved -- and mandated the phase out of

old tank cars that were sub septber bl toung ur leak caj upon derailment. ourailroads and communities are safer today because of those new approaches. prior the the horrific accident in chads worth, california in 2008 which resulted in 25 deaths, led correct me if i'm wrong congress to mandate ptc. ptc technology, while challenging to implement has monstrated that it can prevent major crashes, and incidents caused by human error. ptc likely would have prevented several recent accidents such as the one that i mentioned in washington state. it is imperative for railroads to implement the safety system

as soon as possible. in fact, congress has mandated that all required railroads implement ptc by december 31st of this year with an extension until 2020 for railroads that can demonstrate their system is fully functional, but may need additional testing. while most class 1 freight companies as well as amtrak are on schedultoeet the ptc deadline of december 31st, 2018, last month a federal railroad administration released a list of 14 railroads that are at risk of neither meeting the ptc deadline, nor satisfying the legalriria to qualify for an extension until december 31st of 2020. many of the railroads on this list are commuter or other

publicly subsidized railroads. amtrak has also recently highlighted several states supported and long distance roads that are at risk of having service curtailed, due to a failure to install ptc fully. for the down eastern region train in maine, it is essential thathe massachusetts bay transportation authority, or mbta, fully implement positive train control. the messages the authority serves as the host railroad on a very small part of the down easter road, and is responsible for the installation of ptc on a section of tract between havero and boston. fortunately mbta has made progress and is now on pace to meet the deadline at the end of

the year which will allow the down easter to continue to offer uninterrupted service between maine and boston. recognizing t financial costs associated with ptc deployment, our subcommittee has provided funding over the three years, including up to 593 million in the fiscal year, 2018 funding bill. with the ptc deadline just months away, however, it has taken until this week for the department to make funding availae to potential applicants. when this funding is awarded, i anticipate that it will focus on both freight and commuter of railroads, that are most challenged in meeting the deadlines. it is important to note that whil ptc is critical to improving rail safety, it cannot

prevent all accidents. the amtrak train carrying trk that sh n have been truck a on the railroad road grade crossing. an occurrence that is unfortunately far too common. almost 250 people died in similar highway rail grade crossing collisions last year. and when combined with trespasser fatalities they contributed to 96% of all rail related deaths last ye in an effort to address these problems, this committee has providedunding to the department of transportation for a media campaign to increase awareness of highway real grade crossings. we somehow have to get across the message that you cannot beat

the train by violating the rail sings. earlier this year, the department launched these evers, and i look forward to hearing from the administrator on how these funds are being used and what metrics will be applied to determine their effectiveness. let me now turn to senator reed for his opening remarks and apologize for starting before you got here with the permission of your staff, due to the votes that we have ongoing on the floor. >> well, thank you chairman collins, not only for holding this hearing but a for yr extraordinary leadership and your generosity and kindness. thanks. let me say a few words. we're here today on a very important topic chicago the rail safety which touches every aspect of the american life. and we are also responding to --

as miss collins pointed out several high-profile rail accidents over the past several months. some of which are control preventable, including accidents in south carolina. in addition to frequent highway rail collisions and trespassing deaths. the fra has been also been tracking concerning statistics regarding highway rail crossing and trespasser incidents. in 2017, 861 people died in rail rating incidents, 590 from trespassing incidents, both numbers are higher in 2016. sadly a trespassing pedestrian was struck by a train in rhode island a month ago and survived. otrs have not been as

fortunate. this is a second incident in just a year-and-a-half in rhode island alone. we need to address these challenges, while also providing assistance to implementation of train control. we also recognize the safety in our rail -- oversight. prior to rail investment and safety improvements we were able to make in 2018, under senator collin's leadership. this has increase funding for safety programs, such as the automatic track program. in 2018 we provided $592 million for grants, with $250 million set aside for ptc implement tags. it was important that we made commuter rail agents available for that funding six they have the greatest need for public assistance. unfortunately the fra decided to issue a notice of funding opportunity for only $250 million minimum set aside

for ptc and hold back $350 million under the funding unnecessarily delaying important safety and infrastructure projects. ptc implement tags is an activity for the funding also, as a highway rail crossing improvement that would safe lives. this funding will confuse -- and wai waste time that could be spent to build projects to prevent deaths on our railroads. i'm disupon pointed by the decision to -- quickly and forthly to address the safety that we face as a nation. in 2018 we also funded amtrak at the highest level ever in a bill. with the focus on the northeast car where there is a $38 billion backlog. we funded the partnership for

good repair program at $250 million, the highest level ever in a single appropriations as well. both programs are critical to upgrading, replacing central assets which connects region that contributes 20% of america's growth domestic product. unfortunately i'm concerned that this administration had incorrectly labeled these programs in a critical -- on the northeast carter as local urban concerns. when dealing with 20% of the growth investment product and the major netrks is amtrak it is not a local urban concern. they have progress of national commitment and this association has done a disservice for americans all along the east coast. the department of transportation must do better as these projects grow closer to construction.

in soummary congress has done is part. now the administration needs to get down to work and award to agencies that need them. i look forward to hearing from all of the witnesses about their safety challenges, as well as best practices and opportunity for improvement or america's rail network. this is an area where we have broad bipartisan aagreement. as we look to 2019, your ideas will help to fund our decision to make the rail safe and more efficient. i'll speak for myself, we don't want to coming to and appropriate significant money for real needs across the country and the see the money sit there because people will not do their job. thank you. >> thank you very much senator reed. administrator betorre, thank you for being here. >> thank you, chairman collins,

ranking member reed. members of the subcommittee. the opportunity to testify today to discuss safety is an honor. i come to my position as an administrator with 45 years of experience in the railroad industry, rising to become the president chief operating officer of a significant freight rail carrier in the united states. throughout my career i have been focused on continually improving safety performance. i bring the same unwaiving perspective to my current position at the fra. railroads implement tags of ptc systems is at the top of our agenda. as we approach critical deadlines for railroads implement tags of ptc systems, fra remains committed to working

with railroads to ensure implement tags of this important rail safety technology in a timely manner. under the direction of secretary chrks hile, faa is taking an approach to assist railroads aggressively towards the implementation of pc c systems. in that regard, fr asr leadership met individually with executives for each of the 2b compliant 41 railroads earlier this year. this was precedent setting since the enactment of the original statute in 2008. along with each other the equipment and technoly requirements representing small

market which was also precedent setting. during fra's recent meings, railroads conveyed some ongoing challenges including, three, demand and stlie issues among a limited number of ptc system venders. ongoing technical and reliability issues with ptc system hardware and software. la last, lack of a kcohesive projet from both a host and tenant perspective. today, fra believes 12 railroads are at risk of both missing statutory implementation deadline and failing to qualify for an alternative schedule. this assessment was based on railroad self-reported progress through first quarter of this year. these ptc systems are in

operation over 60% of the required freight railroads route miles. passenger railroads, though have made less progress, which includes commuter rail as well as intercity rail. to date, less than 25% of the required route miles are in service. 14 railroad, though have reported, complete installation of all hardware necessary for ptc system implementation and another 13 have reported 80% of the required hardware installed. since 2008, the funding provided by this committee has enabled the department to make available over $2.5 billion in grants and loans to assist with ptc implementation. this amounts to nearly 20% of

the $14 billion the consolidated industry estimates are for the implementation of positive train control. i might also add that the majority the majority of the $2.5 billion was directed towards commuter rail. in addition, and more recent note, $318 million awaiting award and application under chrissy. since this administration took office, railroads have made progress with ptc implementation . from quarter one of 2017 through quarter one of 2018, railroads have increased the amou of ptc system hardware from 77% to 93%. this progress has enabled the physical operating growth of

ptc, which was very, very important. at the onset of this administration, ptc systems were in operation approximately 18% of the freight railroad route miles required to be governed by a ptc system and has now increased to a percentage of -- in excess of 60%. as of march 31 this year. on the intercity passenger commuter railroads, there has been a much slower growth rate. this time last year we were at 24%. this year we are at only 25%. this progress in the frght sector with the commitment shown in intercity passenger and commuter railroad is a testament to the secretaries commitment to ensuring our

nations railroads are safe. additionally, it is a testament to the hard work and dedication of the men and women serving at fra. although first charged with ptc mandate in october 2008, the progress exhibited over the last few years showed that railroads have prioritized ptc implementation and adhered to the safety charge of earlier this year concerning ptc. moving forward, fra will continue to support and facilitate railroad implementation of ptc telo utilizing the tools afforded by congress and providing extensive technical assistance d guidance to railroads and their suppliers. we remain vigilant in harnessing and leveraging all personnel, financial and other resources available to help expedite railroad implementation efforts. we appreciate the subcommittee support for our critical programs and we welcome your continued partnership to advance

rail safety. with all that said, i sit here honorable in front of you and look forward to listening to yo concerns and answering your questions on railroad safety. >> thank you, senator collins got to the floor for a vote when she returns i will go to the floor for my vote. mr. gardener, your testiny please. >> thank you ranking member read and my fellow witnesses. appreciate the opportunity to be here this afternoon and for the subcommittee setting aside time to focus on where will they be. my name is stephen gardner, amtrak chief commercial officer. it is my pleasure to be here on behalf of the 20,000 dedicated amtrak employees across our network. as the subcommittee knows, there has been a challenging fiscal year for amtrak as we faced a series of tragic accidents, including the two accidents mentioned in the

opening statement. these incidents have weighed heavily on all of us at amtrak and have raised concerns both internally and externally about safety of the company and passenger railroad generally. i am here to share with you that we are tackling these concerns directly. whe amtrak had already begun to limit the number of strategies to improve safety prior to these incidents, we significantly expanded these efforts and are strengthening our policies, training and operations to ensure they reflect the highest degree of safety. leading this effort is our new chief safety officer who is devoting himself to learning from the recent incidents and putting in place new safeguards for our customers and employees. foremost among his duties is to leave the fermentation and operation of the safety management system used by industries like aviation, healthcare and energy but sms is a proactive risk management methodology that focuses systematically and cooperatively on identifying risks and instituting mitigations. adoption of the system follows the ntsb recommendations that

amtrak and our unions implement the sms program and consistent with the approaandateby ngress in 2008 and say required by fra. we have already started implementation, having completing a new safety system policy, instituted our signal suspension and root cause connection -- corrective action methodology. making good progress to the overall goal of submitting a required system safety program to fra for review this fall. the key aspect of sms is the role of technology to mitigate risk and our highest priority on this one is to promptly achieve ptc implementation across our ne as we said before, and in light of the recent incidents, we believe ptc or ptc equivalent levels of safety must be standard for all amtrak routes and that this system will make the entire network safer for passengers, employees and communities. amtrak is on track to achieve

installation and operation of ptc across the territory we control by the deadline, and we are working with our partners throughout the industry to advance the system on their infrastructure. at present, we believe most of our major partners will have ptc implemented and operational on their routes that we use by the 2018 deadline. for the instances where this is not the case, we expect nearly all carriers will qualify for an alternative ptc implementation schedule under law. while very few others may not ma enough progress to qualify for this extension by years end. for those carriers and routes operating under an extension, or under fra approved exemption, amtrak is now performing risk analyses and developing strategies for enhancing safety on a route by route basis to ensure that come january 1 we can provide a single level of safety across our network. for example, our

safety team has built a risk assessment process for exempted routes such as the down easter, ethan allen and vermonter. are clear goal is to preserve service on these routes by using alternative methods to mitigate known risks. thereby, allowing us to ensure that our customers, your constituents, are as safe on those routes as they would be anheour stem. for those very limited routes where a host may not achieve an alternative schedule or exemption by years end, amtrak will have to suspend service until such routes come into compliance. finally, we remain busy working with all of our tenant railroads that operate over amtrak infrastructure as they work to ensure they have sufficiently ptc commissioned rolling stock available by the deadlito operate normal services. before closing, i want to thank the members of the subcommittee and their staff for their tremendous efforts in crafting and passing the fy 18 appropriations bill. your subcommittee champion historic investments in passenger rail that will serve as a foundation for new era of

modernization and improvement. like you, we see the value in intercity passenger rail and we hope as you continue your work on the fy 19 appropriations bill that the fy 18 enacted levels for both amtrak and the federal railroad administration grant programs will serve as the new baseline for passenger rail funny. thank you again for the opportunity to appear today. we are deeply committed to strengthening the safety of our network, improving the services we offer our customers, and effectively stewarding the funds you provide us. we severely appreciate the support we have received from the subcommittee and from you ranking member read, and i look forward to answering any questions you have. >> thank you very much for your testimony. >> good afternoon. thank you ranking member read. and members of the committee, including senator collins, for inviting me here today and for addressing this extremely important topic of real safety. i also would like to join my panel members re in thanking you for passing the fy 18 appropriations bill which he demonstrated a strong support

for safe, efficient, and quality passenger rail network. my name is the -- i patricia quinn, executive director, we are a quasi-government agency based in maine formed in the purpose in the late 1990s for restoring passenger rail to maine after about a 30 year hiatus. those efforts were successful and since 2001 we have worked in partnership with amtrak and our house -- host railroads to manage the amtrak down easter service. effect one the down easter makes five round-trip today between portland and boston, three extend to fret d brunswick. we operate over 143 miles route corridor that is controlled by three host railroads, runs through three different states and serves the 12 communities. we transport about 500,000 people a year, which i am pretty pattern of -- proud of.

and since we started operating, we have transported 7 million people, the equivalent of 600 million passenger miles. and have stimulated a lot of economic development along our routes. in addition to being the director, i also serve in a couple of committees. in organizations i would like to highlight today relevant to this conversation. the stay in passenger rail coalition, a membership organization and the state amtrak into rail committee, 21 state agencies which manage 29 amtrak routes. those state-supported routes represent nearly half of amtrak total ridership, about 15 millioriders a year, and we contribute about $750 million in revenue to amtrak in terms of both passenger revenue and estate payments. state partners are heavily invested in their routes, and

we invest heavily in our routes. that is why we appreciate the partnership and funding. i cannot overstate the importance of a sustained and dedicated funding mechanism to help us plan for investments and actually implement investments. and that is my theme today, my theme is that almost all the projects that we execute and implement have something to do with safety. whether it be a track program, signal program, capacity improvement, stations and platforms, crossings or facilities, each one of these is a positive impact on service and safety. we believe safety is a multifaceted part of everything we do. as it relates to positive train control, as senator collins already talked about, this is a very big and important topic. the downeaster is unique in

that part of the route is required to be ptc compliant by the end of the year, and the rest of it is not. the reason for that is the number of trains that are operated. we operate 10 trains a day and amtrak does on our behalf, the threshold for potive train control is 12 trains. so the portion in maine and new hampshire, which we operate, is exempted from ptc, however, the part on the other territories are required to be ptc compliant. amtrak and pan am railways are working in partnership with the mbta to make sure all the pieces are put in place and toamtrak down easter servption from the first of the year. it seems to be going well, and we hope that it is. there is still a lot of unknowns for us. how it will work once implemented being the part of the route is ptc and par is not, how that will impact our operations, our on-time performance and also with the ongoing costs because once it is installed, it has to be maintained. what i have been told is that is going to cost millions of

dollars and it will probably come back to the customer, and we are the customer. so it is a concern for us. i also want to reiterate that just because part of the line that we will operate on is not ptc equipped, that doesn't mean it is not safe. pan am and amtrak have a very solid safety record on the downeaster service. we work together continually and invest significantly in projects that contribute to the state of good repair of the railroad in which we work. there are many facets to safety. amtrak has mentioned that there was some risk of not operating trains and the line was not equipped with ptc, but i am confident that through the mechanism that was outlined by master gardener that they will see the lineis -- and they are always open to enhancements, but i think we will find that we will be able to continue to operate without disruption to

the downeaster service. we are also considering operating a seasonal pilot rvice to rockledge, which is a 50 mile branch railroad owned by the state of maine, which is extremely scenic and alsoserved bone whh is extremely congested. that is a dark territory, but again, looking for a protocol of looking at the specific characters fix of the railroad, i'm confident we can work with amtrak in the state of maine to come up with mitigations to operate that service safely as well. while i can talk about th safety rorwe have and the things we do, to improve safety and make-- ensure the safety of her passengers, i can't speak much for motorists and pedestrians which has been talked about quite a bit today. since 2011 the downeaster has been involved in 18 accidents, 12 of them had been as with trespassers, six have not been associated with -- six

have been associated with crossing violations, none of these involve the tr but the headline is train his pedestrian, train his r. we can broaden our safety focus and share responsibility not just with the railroad, but with the mmunities, with law enforcement, and with motorists to come up with innovative technology that is multifaceted. bringing things back to local and back to what i was trying to convey is that safety happens at all levels, in my testimony i highlighted two examples of the commitment to safety that our downeaster has. with their injuries associated with crews, they are challenged to find ways to mitigate that so that those types of occurrences don't happen again and injuries don't continue to occur. two specific injuries in which the crewmembers actually worked with local management in the local communities to come up with solutions that are now

deployed nationally to make sure that there are guards on doors so people don't get cut and also improving boarding plates, which improves both the safety of the cruise and the boarding passengers. we encourage that leadership and are very proud to be part of that culture. so in closing, i just want to irradiate the safety is part of everything we do and all the projects. we depend on funding for planning and implementing projects. and appreciate the flexibility to be able to tailor those investments to specific needs two specific quarters. i thank you for your interest and engagement for the tools that help us be successful and safe. thank you. i am happy to answer any questions. >> thank you very much. mr. leahy. >> thank you. it afternoon chairman collins and ranking member read. thank you for having us here today to comment on real safety

. metrolink is the first commuter railroad in the nation to have erating ptc on all of our entire host territory. metrolink is southern california's regional rail x counties across seven lines that travels more than 500 miles of track percussion that we operate on the corridor out west, the second busiest amtrak corridor in the country after the northeast corridor. it is one that is still rapidly growing. we are at capacity. the population is still growing and spreading out, so the trip links are getting longer. the only way to relieve traffic and congestion in los angeles and southern calornia is getting cars off the freeway and metrolink does that. our folks take the train to work rather than driving. we have done a number of things at metrolink over the past few years because of our goal to have improved safety, rear

facing cameras for example, crash, energy and management cars were implemented years ago. our journey into pcc -- ptc was triggered by a tragedy on september 12, 2008 when five people lost their lives and many more were injured when there was a collision between our train and a freight train in chatsworth. the day of that accident, the board of metro and metrolink, the mayor and others were at the scene. they were there all night long and salty horrible consequences, and it was that which led to the unyielding objective of southern california to give ptc in place as soon as possible. we have invested $220 million to develop and test and certify the ptc system. nearly 83% of these dollars happen either state or local sources. we have had some help from a number of agencies, fra and others, and we appreciate that,

but it is been a great deal of expense on our part to get where we are today. about 95% compliant on all of the right-of-way with ptc. we are completing interoperability testing with burlington northern and union pacific. we have started initial testing of interoperability with amtrak. we are very pleased about that. we appreciate that amtrak is committed to getting it done on the time of the deadline, and we believe all three railroads will be as well. i should note for you that, as was just said, ptc costs don't stop when you begin to run it, you have to test it, maintain it , have training, all the sorts of things to make sure the system continues to operate safely. i should note for you that we expect her ongoing cost to be about $10 million per year doing those activities that i mentioned. i would note for you that in

addition to those sorts of accidents, as has been reference, we've had terrible accidents involving automobiles, involving trucks, pedestrians. i should note that we have an incrsing number of homeless encampments along the right away around southern enhances tchances of an y accident occurring. it is an issue we are seeking to deal with. i should note that metrolink operates throughout southern california, and we also work with the freight railroads to get our trains out. we dispatch about 300 trains a day from la and long beach. the busiest port complex in the united states. so we are very pleased to be doing that. we have recently been working with the state of california for a system called score, southern california optimize rail expansion, which basically seeks to enhance and increase the frequency of our trains throughout southern california area. we just received funding

of $1.2 billion in state funds to get this done all over southern california through the six counties. we appreciate the help from this committee and senators and the partme of transportation. we all share these unique challenges of trying to run a raad in corridors that are oftentimes not fully controll, but are to keep at it until we do achieve safety that we all want to have happen. the goal is to provide safe, reliable service through very congested corridors all over southern california, simply too important to ignore. madam chair, thank you for including metrolink in this hearing. thank you. >> first of all mr. leahy, congratulations to you for making such progress and such an efforesponse to the crash that would've been prevented by i put up a chart of some of the crashes where it lives with a

been saved if ptc had been implemented, and the effort you have made is truly commendable. >> thank you. >> mr. batory, i was alarmed to hear you say today, and i think this is accurate, that fewer than 25% of passenger miles e covered by ptc. did i understand you correctly? >> yes chairman, you did understand me correctly. because there is a difference in the cr insofar as the prerequisites that have to be fulfilled by the railroad industry insofar as satisfying the 12 3118 -- the december 31 2018 deadline. they must have 31% of their to be compliant ptc routmiles up and running by that time. also, amtrak must do the same. and amtrak primarily has its ownership other than that for

michigan over the northeast corridor, everyplace else they operate they operate as a tenant. so as a result, they are far past the 25%. but when you get into the commuter railroads, it is revenue demonstration that must be shown prior to december 31, 2018, that is any particular line segment they proposed the fra and fra concurs for that revenue demonstration, that segment could be five miles, it could be 25 miles, just to demonstrate that the system works, and that gets them past long aslleir equipment adli is up and running. i should sa d installed and running where the revenue demonstration is. >> right. you mentioned that you have done extensive outreach and your staff have to all of the

relevant railroads, and there were three general issues that came up as obstacles. you mentioned demand and supply, the host, tenant issue, the reliability issue and testing, but that doesn't tell us why some such as mr. leahy is railroads have made so much progress and others have not since presumably all of them face those challenges that you listed in your testimony. could you give us more insight on why there is such a variation among passenger railroads in particular? >> yes. let me in respect to time, i will carve the 10 year journey, 2008 through 2018. we know that we have another statute that came about in 2015 that superseded in part what was set forth in 2008.

what we have found among the 41 to be compliant railroads is that the majority of the issues resided among the commuter e are four issues i would like to bring to light to this committee. the first issue was the development of the technology, the intellectual property associated with that technology, the equipment that needed to be developed, and the writing of the regulation which was rst and foremost so that much of this equipment could be developed properly to fulfill the regulations. that by itself aiding to the 10 year window of approximately 2 to 3 years beyond 28 -- 20 -- 2008. another -- and it continues to be today ironing out the

wrinkles associated with the evolving technology because none of this is plug and play equipment. the second item i would like to bring up, and it was very obvious among the commuter ilroads, and has nothing to do with the quality of leadership, it has to do with the quantity of leadership. insofar as change. over this 10 year period, if you look at these commuter railroads and recognize the amount of change in the leadership chairs, both at the board of director level as well as in the senior leadership level, there was a considerable amount of change in comparison to what has transpired in other sectors of the railroad industry. leadership, sustained leadership to be committed to the statute 2008 and 2015 is paramount, and that is what we have seen among the class one railroad community as well as some unique commuter agencies such as metrolink, such as septa,

which are testament to what i am shing with you right now. effect, when westart the face- to-face one-on-one meetings with these entities, we deliberately reached out to what we term the poster children of ptc, and that was metrolink, that was our first meeting because we wanted to know the most we can find out about the best, lled by burlington northern santa fe based on what they reported, they also weren't leaders among the class one community. there is also an issue concerning money. and not that anyone wouldn't into the fra offices are ing leaving, but there were only two entities of the 41 to be compliant railroads the said they did not have money to fulfill -- to fill their obligation to ptc. one was in new mexico, the other was in northern california, they were both circumstances and what we think

is going on right now with the money th is out there ugh ro the most recent process as well as the one that was issued during the first quarter this year, we might see a positive resolution to both of them. the last one i want to talk about is the demand capacity issue in this boutique supply industry. what was very interesting after we sat down again for the first time since the original statute in 2008 was the supply industry, we sat with the 10 leading suppliers. we found out that 10% of the 41 to be compliant railroads engaged the supply industry prior to 2008. it was roughly 47% that engaged the supply industry up to 2014. it was another 40 plus percent that had done nothing in the way of engagement of the supply industry until 2014 and 2015.

as a result, you have this boutique splier industry trying to provide customized technology to each and every railroad, and they really have suffered an avalanche of demand since 2015. >> thank you. senator reed. >> thank you chairman collins. commissioner batory, we notice these funding opportunity for the inquiry -- 2017 and 2018 was completed and ready t the door, and yesterday we were disappointed that only the $250 million ptc was announced, why is that? >> let me segregated -- segregate it this way. there was $60 million -- $68

million that was announced the first quarter of this year, fy 17. which will be coming due for consideration next month. and then, as of this week, issued the $250 million that was carved out of the total chrissy where it was ptc specific, nd rather than foow thetraditional 90 y application period, we reduced it to 45 because time is of the essence and there has to be a sense of urgency. so in addition to that, we have already embarked with the short line association, regional railroad as well as that of after the -- a fta where we have asked for webinars with their entire mentorship, this

is new where the fra has reached out to the associations to get broad dissemination of the monies that will be available for ptc, not ly give clarity to that membership, but what is available. questions with solid answers and solicit their subscription to this available money. it is very, very important to get this accomplished within a reasonable period of time because currently there are 12 at risk railroads, reduced by 20% since fourth quarter of last year, that need this money for onboard equipment, wayside equipment, and some back office equipment. insofar as carving out the $250 billion total chrissy, safety is of the utmost priority in all of our lines. if you will, it is the cornerstone, d.o.t.,

it permeates down it does not change any at fra, and then when we get into areas of priorities, you have subsets of priorities. ptc is first and foremost. >> did you allocate more than $250 million to ptc? >> there is $380 million. >> could you have allocated more? >> chrissy allows you to. >> you can do the whole thing for ptc if you wanted to. the manager of ptc was $250 million minimum, which he did. the need, i suspect, is much greater than that. and yet, you have sort of put that on the side. we don't know when it will be, and we don't know what you're going to do. so if ptc is a critical issue and a safety is the most important issue but why didn't

we go ahead and at least the ptc put as much as yo thought could be absorbed? >> that is not to say that it will not be -- >> you could've done it stda >> -- you decided that ptc was important, but not important enough to put in more than $250 million. >> ptc is at the top of our priority. and the amount of applicants we get will determine whether or not the amount of money out there will suffice the need. >> thank you. ms. quinn, how is your railroad doing with ptc? >> only the portion of the corridor in the state of massachusetts is required to be ptc compliant. according to my colleagues at amtrak, they believe that the mbta will be able to meet the deadline without interruption to the downeaster service. >> what about the other raroads you operate in terms

of ptc? is there a significant need for money and are they aware it might be available or do they need a webinar? >> thank you senator reed. i think there is clearly room for sufficient investment in ptc implementation, primarily across the commuter railroads and smaller railroads. i don't -- i am not able to give you an estimate of how much is required, but to your -- certainly the chrissy funding provides as you said a brought opportunity for safety investments, and we have certainly reached out with partners like ms. quinn to look at opportunities for partnership between states and amtrak to go after those investments so we can improve our system, and we are anxious to do that as we can. >> the state of good repair the railroad, mr. garner, is a

safety concern for amtrak operations. can you give us any examples, and there is also a think $275 million that is waiting to be dispersed by fra, so those programs, is that correct? >> that is correct. >> can you give us some examples about how critical this is, to your >> aol as you mentioned, there is a very significant backlog of repair investments needed across the northeast corridor and ross various parts of the rail network that we serve in the northeast corridor the most dramatic example of this. state of repair is absolutely fundamental to both the safe operation of the railroad and the reliable operation of the railroad, and ultimately its marketability. so we need to have assets that are within their useful life in good condition because when we don't, we have unplanned disruptions, we have problems that arise the delay trains and pose safety risks. getting access to the dollars

that you all appropriated is going to be very important. i know i am sure that is a high priority for all of us, and we are working actively to fund partnerships amongst ouel and the commuter rail that use the northeast quarters we can go after these funds and put them to good use. >> thank you. >> mr. quinn, you mentioned that you're confident that the massachusetts bay transport authority will do its part to avoid any such interruption in service for the downeaster, and that is very good news a that is my understanding as well. you also mentioned, however, that there are ongoing costs related to the maintenance of the ptc system, is it clear who will be responsible for those ongoing costs? is it the host

railroad or is it the tenant? >> thank you for the question senator collins. i am actually not sure yet. the agreement that we have specifically with the mbta is their contribution to the downeaster service is that they don't charge amtrak on our behafor opating rights maintenance on the line and. but again, given the order of magnitude of the maintenance and operating cost that were mentioned by mr. leahy, i think that it remains to be seen if that is the case going forward. i also know that there will be additional costs potentially associated with pan am who have to equip their locomotives and also a tie in and back office and dispatch part of the line. so again, would so much hyperfocus on the installation, i don't think we have gone to the point of really identifying what specifically the costs are. and also, other impacts li resources.

pan am is not a class one railroad, it is a rowehave number projects, meeny ate of good repair, -- many state of good repair, but th smaller resources in terms of staffing. the reallocation of those to focus on ptc has been kind of an opportunity cost for us. and sell, i think going forward, i think -- and so, i think going forward, i think we have souestio and concerns about the interoperability, the impact on time performance and all of these will have some level of cost associated. i am anticipating a somewhat bumpy road and a learn as you go kind of situation, and we will probably be in a much better place 18 months from now to answer those questions. >> that is something we will certainly need to keep an eye on. mr. garner, you mentned that amtrak has committed to improving the safety of all routes regardless of the ptc

mandate, what specific safety improvements is amtrak contemplating for the downeaster? >> thank you chairman collins. we are looking at really a ocess, a risk assessment process, that we are applying to all of the routes where we believe the potential to be grounded -- granted or exemptions to the ptc client -- will be required. we completed our first pilot of this process for the ethan allen service in vermont, and this allows us to look at all the different risks that are presented on an individual segment of railroad. on ms. quince route you have a centralized control system in place. that creates a series of safety mitigations that are helpful to th route, others don't have signal systems. so we look at each of these

instances and come up with a series of both operating practices and investments that we can then seek to apply to the routes so we can maintain the service levels, which is absotely our goal and do that anyway but has same level of safety for your constituents in maine that we have anywhere across the network. so we will have analyses undertaken over the spring and summer and then this fall we will have conclusion there and will begin rolling out those mitigations. we appreciate the subcommittee dedication of funds in fy 18 to be able to fund some of this rkso ofit may not cost much in the way of investment, but we will make sure we have gotten appropriate mitigations. >> thk you. >> thank you very much chairman collins. i really appreciate your

holding a hearing today and ranking member reads. as the chairman mentioned, in december 2018 amtrak -- 2017 the amtrak derailed near dupont washington, and that tragic accident killed three passengers and injured 70 people who were either on the train or in their vehicles on the road below. the images of that were just taunting, and we know the ntsb investigation is ongoing. the preliminary report indicates the positive train control would have prevented this terrible accident, but this is just the most recent case in which ptc would've presented -- prevented death and injury. it leads me to ask how we, congress and this administration can do more and do everything we can to prevent future accidents and make sure families don't get that horrific phone call families in my state

got. it is really crical that ptc is fully implemented by the 2018 deadline. so i am really deeply troubled with the federal railroad administration assessment that shows 12 out of the 41 railroads and commuter railroads required to implement ptc are at risk of missing the december 2018 deadline and failing to qualify for an alternative schedule. i believe the administration is committed to achieving full ptc implementation, but i want to know specifically what yoare doing to work with the railroads, with amtrak, with commuter railroads to make sure they implement ptc, and you know in your written testimony, that fra can impose fines for missing the deadline, but the discussions on enforcement actions are still ongoing. we are less than seven months away from this deadline. when will fra make a decision so railroads know there will be consequences for failure to meet that ptc deadline. >> thank you senator. let me

address the first part of your statement, which was the accident itself. with amtrak train 501. it was a most dieartening experience that have shared since my retirement from the railroad industry, what i saw, that devastation. when i started reading and learning more of the facts that were forthmi, it was obvious thatwe had a human failure that day. ptc would have prevented that human failure because with ptc it would have recognized that permanent speed restriction of 30 miles per hour and that

train would have slowed automatically had the engineer not done it himself. so all that said, ptc would have prevented it. as faras what we are doing today, and what we have done thus far, with the railroads, and trying to move the needle not among all 41 railroads, including the 12 we just identified that are at risk, in addition to the face-to-face meetings, we are now in respective -- in respect of their time embarking next week having individual, lengthy conference calls to eliminate the travel with each of the 12 railroads, their leadership. to find out exactly what has been accomplished since the first quarter report, what needs to be accomplished in order to satisfy the prerequisites of december 31,

2018 to ascertain what we can do to help foster and facilitate a successful resolve to their attempt to fulfill their statutory prerequisite. we can to do the work for them, but we can certainly give support, ght d suggestions. we intend to continue during third quarter and fourth quarter , after those calls are completed, to meet with those railroads individually, everybody that is at risk, face- to-face, not less than once a month. you might ask yourself, what is going on during the rest of the month, there is tactical dialogue going on every day among our staff of 16 in washington, along with the 80 some odd railroad inspectors we have in the signal court across the united states. the third item insofar as violations and associated penalties that come with violations, so far the fra

recently for the first time assessed violations and finds. those violet -- fines. those violations and associated fines were not that of the maximum amount. -- violations --when i indicated to the office of secretary staff as well as fra going forward we should do nothing less than the maximum. ptc is never going to and once it is installed. it is a living system. you have to get people to comply wi what the administrative prerequisites are to maintain ptc, and then once you have that in place, you can then administer and monitor the operation of ptc going forward, but it is critical that people do what they are supposed to do such as their safety plans and implementation plans. >> which i have a question about. if you would indulge me to let

me ask mr. garner one question about training because, according to the seattle times, the training on that, the training of the employees is a serious concern. they outlined that employees were concerned that engineers have piled up into a single locomotive car to do the training runs as a group, conductors were largely kept in cars further back in the train around the trailing locomotive, mmed it there familiarization runs in the dark after midnight, supervisors were unwilling or unavailable to answer questions about key characteristics on the route, and safety starts with training mr. garner. it clearly was inadequate. what are we doing about >> thank you senator murray. not getting into specifics of the incident given the ntsb investigation, but i can say absolutely we very significantly reshaped training qualification for new routes and routes that have undertaken any kind of change in their characteristics.

we have centralized of that training. we have created a very spific process to ensure both that we have an adequate review of all of the conditions of either new route or change route and that we have a review process to determine exactly the level of training, the number of qualification runs in the type of runs that will be made, and then also instituted a process to ensure that engineers and conductors were qualified are then quickly checked to ensure their fluency and competency for the routes. so we have significantly changed our approach here to ensure that we do have both one common standard across all of amtrak and a much higher level standard for qualifications to ensure that every time we operate on the new route that it is done so with the utmost level of safety. >> i would just ask that the

fra get back to this committee and whether they reviewed the training programs and what their solutions are to this. >> we will make that request. thank you. senator reed. >> thank you very much. mr. leahy thank you for being here today. trink has been a model for commuter rail in terms of ptc, and i can't think of anyone better toask for the big challenges that you faced and also the advice you have after going through this process. >> thank you senator. it was a very difficult process. we started on it early on, but it was new technology, it was be developed real time with us with the contractors. we had to do a great deal of troubleshooting and training and retesting and validating. it took a great deal of time. i think my recognition -- recommendation is to start as soon as possible because you will confront unique challenges. i am pleased -- we would help

any railroad in the country by sharing her experiences and bring our people to bear on them. we have been involved in the train association doing that and will continue to do it. >> part of getting started immediately is being aware at this funding available, i would presume, that is a key factor that might not be decisive, but without that, the availability of total funding it is very difficult to get started. is that fair? >> in los angeles we were 80% locally funded, so we wish there have been more money available back then, but that was not the case. you have to go try to get the money. >> i think that is probably true of most any place. miss quinn, you have great experience operating commuter lines, and as we all know, your loan runs to boston to connect

to the providence trained, just for the record. -- train, just for the record. you worked in agreement with amtrak to share the cost of operation, you been a leader in discussion many years about trsportation as you indicated. the budget proposed deep cuts to amtrak funding and asked states to have more skin in the game, is that something you think you can do? >> i can speak on behalf of my state college essay we have quite a bit of skin in the game already. states contribute significantly to amtrak. as i stated in my opening statements, we contributed about $750 million a year to the operating expenses . as part of that, states to pay 100% of the third-party cost incurred as part of their route, and we also pay 100% of the route cost, which you might

think of as kind of avoidable cost, and we share significantly $700 million a year to support shared systems that amtrak uses to support his entire network. does include facilities, stations, reservations and technology, insurance, marketing , support, it is a connective system, and it is all taxpayer dollars. states are already very constrained in terms of what we contribute, and since 2009, most of our bills have gone up significantly. hours has gone up a couple million dollars a year. so i really think what we need to do is instead of short funding, continue to work with amtrak to find ways to be innovatid find ways to increase and improve efficiency , maybe doing some of the things we do on the travertine service like outsourcing the food service, having a station

ambassador program so we don't have staff stations, and incidentally, our local community supports the stations along the routes, and that is their contribution. and the mechanical contractors, we also own a number of the facilities. if it states are willing to invest if there is a value, but just having -- creating a void and having us put money into it, it would be hard for us back home to justify that to stakeholders. and i think it could be catastrophic for the industry. if the state-supported routes subsequently go away, you are going to see not a decrease of amtrak need on behalf of and drop, i know amtrak provides their financials and they say that state-supported routes cost about $60 million a year. i respectfully disagree with that and think we really, based on the factors i said before, contribute significantly to the

shared services and i would think that if the state- supported routes started to go away, that the balance sheet for the northeast corridor would look a lot different than thank you. miss quinn, your last comment actually is a great segue to a question i want to ask mr. gardner. although it is a little bit off the focus of this hearing, i would be remiss if i did not tell you that i have heard from a number of amtrak passenger coalitions across the country that have voiced concerns about some of the policy changes at amtrak in order to generate savings. i certainly understand the need for a business mentality be brought to amtrak operations and congress has directed amtrak to work to make the entire national network financially more sustainable, but we also said we want you to do that without compromising

service. so the issue that i most want to bring to your attention is these coalitions of passenger groups feeling excluded from the process, and what i would ke to get from you today is a commitment that you will increase your outreach to passenger coalitions before making fundamental changes in your operations and routes. >> yes chairman collins, we do endeavor to do that and in fact for a number of our changes we have been in dialogue with the impacted parties. i concur that some of those policies have not been -- not made all the constituencies happy, but i think we are

trying our best to achieve exactly what you have described, which is ways to follow in some respects many of the types of initiatives that miss quinn has been able to develop on the trertine and apply those at other places and reduce cost and improve in performance at the same time. but fundamental to that is the response be to engage with constituencies and with our customers and keep them part of the process. we will do that. >> thank you. miss quinn, my final question has to do with a comment that you made which i thought was very startling. you said there had been 18 accidents involving the downeaster over the years, and not a single one of them had been the fault of the train. we have learned a lot in looking at real safety about the role that is played by rs or passengers ignoring the grade crossings or just wandering onto the tracks,

could you talk a little bit more about what we could do to increase the safety of those passenger -- rather, trespasser and car and truck violations that are responsible for the vast majority, and in your case, every single one of the accidents? >> yes. thank you for the question senator collins. i think that there are some common sense kind of low-tech things that we can implement. and again, the state of good repair funding provided will help us all work towards these. first is maintaining the crossings that are there. all of the crossings have different components to them, signs in advance, levers, brush cutting.

how many times you drive by the road and trees are overgrown and their blocking the sign. so making sure the crossings that exist are maintained properly. also, looking at the crossings that don't have active warning systems and implementing active warning systems, meaning that some only have signs but don't have a gate that comes down. sensing is another important opportunity we could use some money to provide fencing so that people don't have access to the right away and also required channelization oftentimes when a quiet zone. channelization is putting a little island or barriers so when the gates come down, a car cannot weave to try to be the train. and of course, grade crossing separation is the best, most expensive and least popular of all the alternatives. i think looking towards higher technology, we did partner with the federal railroad administration a couple years ago on a pilot program which used cameras and speakers to monitor the railroad lines and when trespassers were on, it triggered -- the cameras went

on and actually a screen came on in the police department and the police officers were actually able to speak to the person on the line and tell them to get off, and in a situation also we are working on a system where they could then, if the person cannot get off the line, notify the engineers. i think there is so technology there. they have now eslated that with drones. being able to monitor with technology, maybe to do some research and test some technology looking at drones to notify the engineer and notify the authorities when somebody is on the lines. and again, i don't know if it islable in terms of absurd technology-related automobiles were in automobile, if the gates were down, the car cannot go. people just need to pay more attention. i also think another important facet of this really hasn't been mentioned today but should is concerned from mental health. because mental health is really

-- there are a lot of instances of people who choose to take their lives using a train, which is extremely troubling for all involved. so i think that needs to be part of the conversation as well. i think more research and looking at these things, maintaining what we have and exploring new technology, that maybe isn't as quite as complex or expensive as pdc to ensure rail line stay safe for pedestrians, vehicles and the crews on board. >> thank you very much. that is very helpful. senator dade. >> thank you chairman collins. thank you for being here today and talking about these important rail safety initiatives. it is montana. a lot of ground out there. and maintaining safe and reliable rail service is absolutely critical for moving passengers, as well as the destinations. with % of thworld consumers outside the united states with montana number one economic driver being agriculture, without rail, we don't have an

economy in montana. it is as simple as that. i'm especially pleased to see the importanis placing on sainittives. casino, the empire builder, my ancestors came out to -- as you know, the empire builders were my ancestors. nearly 700 miles to the highlight a montana. it is greatly important in not only keeping rural communities connected but also transporting out-of-state visitorplaces like laois or national park. recently was announced that two stations in montana -- glacier national park, and recently it was announced the two stations in montana would lose ticketing agents. they have been long partners of amtrak. shelby is home to one of the crew basis for amtrak. the empire builders are the lifeblood of these rural communities and i'm concerned about the impacts this decision might have . mr. gardner, i

understand you came to the decision for economic reasons and i am sure they were sound reasons. what specifically can amtrak do to meet the needs of rural residents and the elderly on fixed incomes he did not have reliable internet access or the understanding of technology necessary to obtain electronic tickets? >> -- >> thank you senator. i understand your concern about these two stations and you are correct we did -- we have prioritized removing staff from stations which have less than 40 daily each statio each one of those stations positions cost roughly $100,000. it is a significant expense, and the aim is to improve the economic performance of the national network while obviously focusing on keeping

our service and serving the communities. >> 40 down the line that you drew? >> we did. we are continuing to look at >> are there any other stations on the amtrak network with fewer on-site ticket purchases that still have agents? >> no. everything at 40 -- everything on the long distance number, there are some instances potentially on the state- supported portion of the national network where states are paying for those costs. they decided to invest. but in general, we are moving staff from these locations. instead, because of the points you raised, we are using generally two strategies to make sure that we have adequate presence. one is to hire caretakers where we hire someone to come and open the station to make sure

it is in proper condition and close it so it is open and available in good shape for the period of time that the station is needed. as you know, one train a day, the station is not necessary to be open for extended periods. or to our volunteer host program where we work with communities and are able to get staff, station help their volunteers. we have this around communities all over. in maine, the extensive program there. so we are anxious work and have been working with all the communities impacted to try to create a good footpr, a good presence to serve folks and of course, the vast majority of our ticketing is done either by phone or online today. >> just looking out again, we have a generation that is not technically savvy. grandkids i am sure can do it quickly, but that is not always a solution for them. >> at this stage passengers can call and make a reservation. they don't have to print their ticket. they can get on the ticket through their handheld and the engineers can lookup their name and have the reservation. where try to make it as easy as

they can to show up at a station. and we are also looking at our new ticketing platform and kiosks to make available in station that allow customers to come and be able to both purchase and print any materials they need right away and also access customer service through the network. >> i want to pivot on the long distance service. with the announcement of removing these ticket agents from some of these long- distance stations, we have a lot of folks back home concerned that this is the first step in limiting or eliminating some of these long- diance service altogether. my staff is heard from numerous groups that there are discussions of amtrak on reducing the -- to triweekly service. congress recently recommitted by providing $1.2 billion in the omnibus. for many communities in montana there is no other access to the national transportation network. there a long way from interstate highways and it creates a significant hardship.

mr. gardner, are there plans to reduce empire builder service and is amtrak read -- remain committed to long-distance rail? >> senator, we do not plan to institute triweekly service on the empire builder. obviously, we are operating under the fast act authorization the congress authorized our network. any conversations about the broad feature the network i think is best placed in our reauthorization context as we approach the next reauthorization. amtrak is operating these routes and intend to do that, and we will consider any future changes collectively between the ngss and administration and amtrak as we look at the network ahead. >> thank you. i am out of time. i have one more question but want to respect everybody's time. >> go right ahead. >> okay. >> my constituents, i will just blame you when i am late for the meeting with them.

>> oh my word. let's go fast. scussion i had with secretary chao at a hearing recently. amtrak completed a study that showed adding a stop in culberson montana would actually generate a net sive financial impact of more than seveor $75,000 for amtrak and would not add any additional time to the schedule. that is right out on the edge of the balkan -- bakkan. my question, does amtrak remain supportive of adding a stop at culberson one station infrastructure is in place? >> we do. >> thank you. madam chairman, you can see your constituents now. >> thank you very much. if you have an additional question you would like to ask, go right ahead. >> given the chance, i will finish with a statement. administrator batory, in your testimony you mentioned

chrissy grants and huge increases in funding . it is the most obvious source of funding for culberson to assist in building the station necessary for the at a stop. just a thought. i know ranking member read touch on the notice for remaining funds and i would also like to urge you to get this money out soon to places like culberson to get moving forward. >> thank you senator for that statement. i will assure you that i will follow up to find out where we are in the process of pursuing the remaining chrissy funds as we continue to get out the $250 million plus the $68 million for pdc. >> thank you. appreciate it. i really finish now. >> thank you very much senator. i want to thank all of our witnesses for being here today. this is a date where there are many conflicting hearings going on, but i can assure you that

there issue of rail safety. the hearing record will remain open until next friday, may 25, 2018. so additional questions may be coming your way in writing. again, my thanks to each and every one of you for your participation and for helping us gain a better understanding of this important issue. this hearing is now adjourned.

a pastor from portland maine tweeted in d.c. today, met with senator collins to talk about the farmville. hunger is a moral issue. any legislation that puts up barriers making it more difficult for people to access food is immoral. senate bill good, health bl bad. andrew lorber sending the message thank you senator joni earns. we appreciate your support of the farmville and usda programs to increase trade

and create opportunities for agriculture in iowa and across the globe. the meetingsarhead othe senate agriculture committee memrs will reewhe . farmvie. >> democratic and republican members of congress face off in the 57th annual congressional baseball game for charity. live coverage begins at 7 pm eastern on c-span 3. c-span, where history unfoldily. today we continue to bring you unfiltered congress -- coverage of congress. the white house, the supreme court and public policy events in washington d.c. and around the country. c-span is brought to you by your cable or satellite ider.

>> t juste department is likely to is you -- issue a public report. top official told lawmakers today, this would represent the first public product to study foreign government efforts. and would come nearly 5 months after attorney general jeff sessions set up a task force to assess the threat landscape. up next, adam hickey, the deputy assistant attorney general for the justice department national security division testifies before the senate judiciary committee. this hearing is over two hours. i think everybody for being here today.