the senate comes into session monday at 3 p.m. eastern. senators will consider the nomination of former hawaii attorney general mark bennett to serve on the federal appeals court based in san francisco. at 5:30 p.m. monday the senate will take a procedure vote on that nomination and another procedure vote on the nominee to be the pentagon's general counsel. when the senate is back in session on monday, live coverage on our companion network c-span 2. cover the president, what media outlets were going to cover the presiden next on american history tv three former white house photographers on their work with presidents bill clinton, george w. bush and barack obama. they share photos showing presidents in their public and private moments and the stories behind each scene. the it's an hour and -- it's an hour and 40 minutes. good evening, everyone.

how is everyone doing tonight? excellent. glad to hear it. my name is ava osmond and i am the education and public programs manager here and welcome to this evening's event photographing the president which is part of our public programming roster in support of our news exhibition, not an ostrich and other images from america's library. this exhibition tells a story of america's history through photography from the archives of the library of congress, many of which have never before been exhibited. through these photographs we tell the stories of the moments that shaped america's history, both the well known and the less well known. of course, nothing shapes the narrative of what america represents domestically and internationally like the president of the united states. tonight we are so lucky to welcome to the stage three photographs who have worked as official photographers of the white house during the past three administrations. these three photographers have been in the room where it happened and they have the photographs to prove it. we'll hear from them, what it

was like working alongside the president during the big moments and the small ones and joining us to moderate the discussion is jamal -- jamelle bouie. his work as appeared online at the new yorker, the washington post and other locations. before that he was a staff writer at the daily beast and american prospect magazine. he's from virginia beach, virginia and attended university of virginia where he graduated with political degrees in government and social thought. please also welcome photographers sharon farmer, eric draper and lawrence jackson. [ applause ]

>> hello there. thank you for coming out. i'm going to introduce our wonderful panelists. to my immediate right is sharon farmer. sharon has been a professional photojournalist and exhibition photographer more than 40 years shooting news stories, political campaigns, cultural events, conferences and portraits. most notably -- [ laughter ] >> most notably sharon was the first african american woman to be hired as white house photographer as well as the first african american -- [ applause ] >> as well as the first african american and first woman to become director of the white house photography office. [ applause ] [ cheering and applause ] >> served as director of the white house photography office

from 1999 to 2001 and as a white house photographer from 1993 documenting the beginning of the clinton/gore administration. next to sharon is eric draper. [ applause ] eric served as president george w. bush's chief white house photographer the entire eight years of bush's presidency photographing him daily during his activities at the office, abroad and in his personal life. draper was eventually named special assistant to the president and is the first white house photographer to be named a commissioned officer to a u.s. president. [ applause ] during his tenure eric also directed the oversight of film to digital documenting the presidency. last but certainly not least is

lawrence jackson. [ applause ] >> but certainly not least. [ applause ] >> lawrence started his career at the virginia pilot 10 years covering lot sports, news and in depth picture stories before joining the press in boston in 2000 and 2002 he covered capitol hill, the white house and major sports teams seven more years. in march, 2009 he became an official white house photographer under the obama administration where he stayed until january, 2017. in march, 2017 he started his freelance photography business covering editorial, corporate and portrait photography. [ applause ] >> so we have a lot of photos, but before we get to those i just kind of wanted to ask a general question to the panelists and in your bios it says when you became white

house photographers, but i'm curious and i'm sure the audience is curious to know how you became white house photographers. so just if you could talk a little bit about how you got to that position. >> what we ate and drank? >> yes. i can see the line starting. >> my parents always had a camera in the house. we got clean to go to church, it was a miracle for me because staying neat a long time was not my thing and i'd rather play music. i played clarinet and bassoon and my mother said you look lovely, let me get the camera and i said no. i'm practicing. but i became a photographer because i went with my buddy from the football team at ohio state university and it was like magic and i'm like love my music, but this is very interesting. that's how i got started. >> what was the path from discovering the magic of the

dark room to photographing the clinton/gore administration? >> being an activist and the fbi records i say with pride because if you don't stand up for something, you're going to get done in by everything. so -- [ applause ] -- i'm clear that photography was an activist kind of thing to do and we had demonstrations on the campus of ohio state because things were going on. you had less than 300 black students on campus of 4,000. i'm watching everybody else come and go, come and go as we're getting off the bus. michael white who was president of af ro am at the time said stop the buses and i started working for a black student paper called our choking times. i went on to be the editor, managing editor, really in charge and the photographer. so we did all the things we're supposed to do to make it a

democratic principle on campus. so that's what happened to me and the more you see injustice, the more you go uh-huh and thank heavens my members of the sorority delta sigma theta for sort felt the same way i did. we made coalition with the white folk. they didn't like what was going on either. so one thing does lead to another and when you're taking pictures of folks that are telling you how well you're doing, you don't know. the teachers are telling you you're not doing well because you're not doing their classwork, but by now i'm shooting everything in columbus, ohio, because i met a wonderful photographer of the neighborhood named valentine. he was just known by one name, valentine, and he worked for the post and everybody, did babies, did churches and i'm like babies and churches? okay. so i did that, too. so the more stuff i did, the better i got at it. then i discovered i liked all

that stuff, didn't matter what it was because it was photography and as long as i could explore the campus this big, the city this big i didn't miss a beat and plus do you know taking pictures is fun? real fun. so the idea of working in the field that you get paid for, i had already died and gone to heaven, okay? and i still play my music. my dad has my music room at home. we get crazy in there. we jam and throw down. so when you do stuff with good people, good things keep happening. sharon, take my picture, sure. and sharon, shoot this school. sure, yes. i'll be at sunday school. that's how i got out of sunday school class. three years later he said i got this big job. you're a great photographer. i want you to take the job. it paid me $5,000 for a day. so all i can say is you don't know what you do until you do it and then kind is the best thing we can all do for each

other because that's what happens. [ applause ] yes, ma'am. >> i didn't think i had an fbi record when i started, but i hope -- i don't know actually. my story began actually without even knowing that i would actually end up in the white house. through my background i was a newspaper photographer. i was also a photographer with the associated press for eight years covering every story you can think of from campaigns to sports and the 2000 campaign rolls around and basically it began as an assignment and i was the last one to get the assignment. you know, you're covering texas governor george w. bush. i said okay, let's do it. actually my desire to pursue the white house didn't really start until after the election. you might remember the recount. yeah. i blame everything on the recount because if the election was decided that night, i don't

think i would have ever ended up in the white house because during the recount is when i decided to pursue the position and the more i discovered, the more i realized actually i had a shot at it. they say timing is everything. so all the signs were green and all the planets were aligned and i had the opportunity to ask president-elect bush for the job and i discovered i said i need to make my direct pitch for the job. at the party my wife was there coaching me on the sidelines when to make my move and i walked up to him and i said thank you for inviting us to the party. by the way, i want to be your personal photographer and i didn't blink and he looked at me like he never really thought about it before and he looked away and said, "i really appreciate that." there i am back in austin, texas, for the interview and the chief of staff pretty much offered me the job on the spot. the first question he said to me was can you manage?

and i said yes. i hadn't managed anything, by the way, but i'll never forget what he told me. he said working at the white house is like trying to drink water through a fire hose at full throttle and he was right. >> how did i get the job at the white house? i originally applied to be chief photographer like these guys did and i did not get it much to my chagrin, but pete had my portfolio once he was named chief photographer and he called me up and said hey, i got your portfolio here. do you want to work for this administration? and i was like sure and that was it, pretty simple. >> was there anything in particular that prompted you to want to be chief photographer? >> well, yeah. i mean i tell the story of election night. i was covering bush at the white house for the a.p.

and barack obama beat john mccain for the presidency and i go to lafayette park and all these college kids are celebrating and chanting and there was this energy to the whole thing. i was just transfixed by it. i was leaving home that night or going home that night and i said to myself if i can work with this president, i'm going to do it. i told my wife i applied and i applied and i didn't get it and pete said, "i want you to work for me," but it's funny because he said the job paid this much and i was like how much? he said this much and i had to go back to my wife and say look, it pays less than what i currently make at the a.p. and she's like well, i'll get a job. i'll get a job. you're taking this job. so if it wasn't for my wife --

[ applause ] >> we're going to go through the photos we have here. we're going to chat about them, have some discussion and after all that we'll go to the audience for some questions. the first photo here i think you took this one. >> i did. >> i wasn't sure who took this. i. >> can you tell me what this is? -- >> can you tell me what this is? >> the pilots are doing test runs because they are getting ratings to land on the front lawn and we were taking pictures of it. we did four or five pictures of the touchdowns, took off and circled around the city. this is what they see every

time they come in to approach for landing. >> i'm guessing for you, sharon and eric, i'm sure you took similar photos to this. >> not in the cockpit. >> it's interesting. i took the exact same photo probably like four years earlier. >> yeah, yeah. >> but i mean it's an incredible view. it's only one of a kind. >> a million dollar view. >> it's incredible. >> that was mine. it's always just fun to try to figure out where to about before anybody starts. nobody is trying to direct me what to do. i got to figure it out. i'm always looking for composition. i never forget about what makes strong photography because you're only as good as your last picture. that's as good as you are. so i'm always moving around because i not only have the peers that i work with who are journalists photographers and videographers, but i have my crew.

so the head photographer when we started was bob mcneely. then it was ralph alclay and barbara kinney and then me. so we're having a blast just competing with each other taking pictures because when you compete, you keep getting better. i never turned down competition. if you ever want to see what you can do for yourself, compete with somebody. this is mine again. you can always tell who's got who. they got him and we know who we got. but the fun stuff about being a fly on the wall is to read the paper the next day and i'm like they weren't even in the room. that's the best way i knew the media wasn't all cool either and some of them are my friends, but those are the writers messing up. when you have to do visuals, a

picture is still worth 1,000 words. it can tell you in a heartbeat what's going on. you see there's stuff going on. when stuff is going on, i'm the fly on the wall. i hear everything, but i don't keep it. i am looking for the photo that says this is a serious meeting. >> speaking of serious, this moment here was taken in march, 2003. if you remember that time of the administration, it was a time president bush decided to go to war in iraq and this photo was made right after he made that decision which was made in the situation room just minutes before the photo was taken and i'll never forget that day because it was so intense leading up on that moment. i was standing outside the situation room when it happened waiting for the meeting to end. the door swings open and he literally bolts out of the room and i see his face. his eyes are nearly full of tears and i have to jump out of

the way. i wanted to take a picture, but i had to jump out of the way or he would have collided with me and he walked out through the oval office, didn't talk to anyone and he walked the entire length of the southlawn with the dogs. i decided to hold back because i knew he was very emotional and i didn't know exactly what was happening. so i waited and you can see the weight of that decision still on his face. then he spoke to me right after i made this picture and he said, " eric, are you interested in history?" and all i could say was yes, sir because he doesn't speak to me every day. i don't brief him. so it was very unusual for him to talk to me and he said, " these pictures you're taking are very important. the one in the situation room and the one here on the south lawn," and just as he said that i made a frame right after this of the vice president and don rumsfeld, secretary of defense, coming out of the oval office. he walks over and they're discussing the timing of the start of the war. it was very, very intense.

>> so all these descriptive photos are very fly on the wall shots. i'm just curious to know just the experience of being in that kind of -- being invisible of a sort, being in close proximity and watching and observing and knowing that you have to document but trying not to be intrusive. if each of you could talk a little bit about the experience of being there. >> you know, when you walk into any place on that campus, it's government and this government is my chief and it takes care of a lot of issues not only in our country but around the world. the intensity of being the fly on the wall is you don't want anybody responding to anything that you have moved, anything that you have tried to edge toward. i carry a whole lot of gear because if i got stuck in a place i thought i need to stay at for a while while stuff begins to unroll, i have a choice of camera, choices of

lenses. i got two cameras around my neck. i got a wide panorama camera and one that's quiet as can be because when they start getting down with the get-down, they can't hear me move and i'm really a quiet mover. all that karate stuff i took through the years to guard me and my gear, it paid off. i'm stealth. i move smooth. i don't bounce anything. i don't break anything. so they forget i'm there. as i'm hearing this stuff going whoa, what? but i'm concentrating on the pictures because it's about the documentation and the history, yeah, i'm a fly. i'm a piece of the furniture. >> don't touch the furniture. >> just understanding that you're getting what nobody else is getting and whether it ever gets seen, it's okay, but as time goes on, it's like the abe lincoln in there, everything's going to get seen and that's the fun about being a photographer. you may be dead, but you go on.

>> it's a very unique role in the white house because every other position in the white house you're there to interact with the president and our job is to be the professional observer. our job is to disappear in the background, if we, can but sometimes we're too close to the situation. just like you said, instead of a fly on the wall which can be annoying, i compare more to a piece of furniture in the room where they're accustomed to your presence and they trust your presence and if you're not there, they actually -- actually that bring more of an alarm when -- brings more of an alarm when you're not there. that's part of the job when you're just being there and sometimes nothing is happening and you're sitting there watching trying to stay awake and some days are intense like this picture here. so it depends on the situation. >> yeah. i think for me the obamas would be called naturals in for -- photojournalism. they're always just themselves.

i guess they're aware of the camera being there, but they don't really care about the camera. it helps us do our job a lot easier. i think you'll see some of the pictures just like you can see them just being themselves and it doesn't seem like there's a camera in the room. >> i can'tment the name of the enter -- can't remember the name of the interviewer, but he did an interview in the east room and during the interview a fly kind of landed on his shoulder and he was so quick he killed it, right? he kept going on with the interview and after the interview of over he took out a tissue and he picked off the fly. >> that is such an on the nose story about barack obama if you hadn't told me, i wouldn't have believed it. >> yeah. it's true. >> it was mrs. pittman's

birthday and we're -- mrs. clinton's birthday and we're coming from the mansion to the rose garden for the celebration and everybody was pretty much key on both sides -- everybody that was pretty much key on both sides of the office was in that shot. it's a happy time this was getting done. i'm still pitching myself from every day. remember i'm from southeast washington d.c. i grew up in anacostia. i'm clear that me being there is an aberration. i know that, but because of the fbi record they let me through anyway, i'm like oh, must be a new day for real here in government because i was worried when everything else was going on with the other presidents because they didn't spend any time in d.c., but president clinton and mrs. clinton loved to go out to restaurants and eat and meet people and take time to shake hands and i'm like these people are different. it was so cool. d.c. had at last arrived.

>> i like to call this photo timing is everything and this was taken the first week of the administration. a lot of us know president bush. he's very timely. he hated to be late. he started his meetings on time or early. so this is a good illustration of that and i felt really lucky to be in the right place at the right time to literally raise the camera as it was happening and luckily there was no one walking in the hallway looking through the door. >> that was a foreign leader call. i couldn't tell you who the leaders were. so what happens is whatever the issue is he has people to come in and brief him on the topic and then he takes the call and i don't know why he has such a serious look on his face.

honestly i can't remember. >> my guy has a serious look because all kind of stuff's going on. yugoslavia has broken up. things are happening and it's like well, what's next? so people are giving advice about what to do about some things and i'm fortunate because i do carry different lenses. i can pull up whatever i think i need to make it work, but i'm waiting on the shot. don't shoot your load before you're ready. if you shoot your shot before you're ready to shoot your shot, when you're ready to shoot your shot, it's too late. it goes down and you're waiting for it to come back. no, no, no. you want to wait on it. you're hunting. you want your first shot to be the one because you don't want a lot of clicks going on either because this is serious what's going on, which is a lot of the reason why that's why the light doesn't come out.

nobody knows you're taking a picture. >> that was the -- so the president was about to decide or he's deciding to go for osama bin laden in that moment right there. before he came into the room it was, you know, just a typical morning before he's about to get on marine one and take off for the last space shuttle launch, but i could tell there was a lot of nervousness and energy in the room with mcdonough and daley and brennan and i felt something was off or about to happen. so the president comes into the room and i'm about to far away from him and i take two shots. that's the first and the 2nd shot you can -- second shot you can see brennan waved me out of the room. i was like okay. that's happened before. it's no big deal, but then we find out sunday night when he goes on the air and says we've got osama bin laden and i found

out later that was the moment he decided to say the mission is a go. >> one thing i like about the sequence of photos is it seems to capture kind of the presidency in various states but very serious and somber, kind of whimsical with the clintons and with the photo of bush and cheney. so my question for all of you is could you talk about kind of the emotional tone of being around the president? obviously every day is not a serious day. every day is not sort of like a loose, light hearted day. it is a job and like all jobs there are highs and lows and so what's it like to be there when there is a low and what's it like to be -- i kind of think the public has a decent idea of

what it's like to be around the president when something stressful is happening, but when it's just sort of, you know, not much is going on? >> first it's the office. it's a office with serious responsibilities and the photographer, you're part of the documentation of it. you are charged with capturing everything, not just the little bit. even when it's down time, there's stuff going on with somebody else. another security person or mrs. clinton or the secretary of state's coming in to visit. there's things going on even when it's a lull. if there's a lull, we're editing our pictures to get them out to the folks that have to have them. otherwise we get backed up. that's no fun. where's my photos? you have just come back from a big trip and you haven't gotten last week's stuff done. we switched from film when i there was to computer. i'd like to die. i came in one day and all my proof sheets were gone and

they've got a computer on my desk. i'm like what's this? and they're like that's your new computer. i don't want a computer. but you're going to have to have a computer. i don't want a computer. so i fought them off for six months. i fought them off. where are my proof sheets? i want proof sheets, but if there's a lull, it's about being behind. any time you come into work at 5:30 in the morning because you know your editing is behind and you can trust your editor to do it, but the photographer's eyes is different than the editor's eyes because i'm in the emotional part of what's either said or done and i have more insight that i don't even talk about. so i know why some pictures are more important than other pictures and i'm also looking at the little eyelids. are your eyes fully open or half mast looking like you're not quite all there. i don't take pictures of people with their tongues hanging out of their mouth. if you're bringing or scratching -- blinking or scratching your nose, i'm not taking that. i'm going to wait on you.

the most humorous part is thinking about how many times is this guy going to pick his nose when he's talking to the president about whatever it is that's important. we are human. >> i think it's one of those things where you study someone for so long, i mean i studied president george w. bush for eight years, i can literally listen to his voice and know what kind of mood he was in. i can study his microexpressions to know what he was thinking about to the point where we kind of had a nonverbal communication in terms of when i should there be and shouldn't be there. i found little hiding areas where he was always on my radar, but he couldn't see me. so i would come out at certain times, but it was like some days were like an emotional roller coaster. the morning started out very seriously because the first thing the president would read

would be the threats to our country and start right off the bat the president reading a very serious document. from there, you know, meetings, meetings, meetings, photo ops and then he could go to a meeting with the elementary schoolteacher of the year or he can go to the situation room for a crisis. it's a really roller coaster. that's what made it really interesting and consuming was to follow that story throughout the day because there's so many stories going on including like sharon said i mean everything in front of you was a story where you see the president, but you look behind you and there are stories. there's stories of the staff. there's stories of the president's senior aides that are going through some of the same emotions. there's a lot of stories going on. so sometimes it's hard to just focus on the president because there's so much going on around

you and it was like a disneyland for photography to be honest. like every day i can think of a story to follow. it would get dull because of the monotony of the repetitiveness, but all you had to do was have a cup of coffee, wake up and all of a sudden you'd see another story to follow. it was great. i loved it. >> a lot of what eric said. i think the president sets the tone. if he's in a good mood, you try and be in a good mood. if he's in a somber mood or kind of focused on something, you follow cue with that. and also he goes from, like you said, the situation room to a visit and he matches the tone of each meeting with the right energy, the right words, the right everything and that's tough. you know, that's an emotional roller coaster trying to meet

the needs of the situation all the time. >> next photo. oh, this is the big meeting. we got lots of things going on. at the end of the meeting there was a bright light and he smiled and the rest of them were smiling, too. some things do turn out okay when they are difficult, but the tone and the mood, this guy likes to have a good time. his mom liked to have a good time. mrs. clinton liked to have a good time and then the serious stuff would happen and then everybody would seriously try to get healthcare passed. he would seriously try to get some country to agree to take some refugees. they were seriously worried about what was going to blow up next because somebody had insulted somebody else, but we were watching all this stuff and we don't get this that often at all because you all would be scared to death if you saw and heard all the things i

did. i'd go home going oh, my god, lord, and my partner would say what's wrong with you? it's been a wild day today, but it's okay. she's like i know you can handle it. i'm talking to myself going really, did i handle it today? because you get to hear things nobody else gets to hear. you get to see things and interactions between the staff as they try to get along, too, because what you have is a big, huge i'll call it stand in and you got to decide which side you want to stand on and get your picture and the only boss you have is the picture. i had one guy trying to tell me what the to do and i -- tell me what to do and i went up to him and i said, "i don't work for you," and stepped back and six months later he's gone.

when you're with somebody every day, i like getting up early to catch the plane on air force one. that's one big flying office building, but the food is good. the comradery is wonderful and we don't have to go through tsa. >> i think that was very early on in 2009. i think that might have been his first meeting with netanyahu and i think the body language of these two guys are just -- you know, they're getting to know each other. they're getting a feel for each other trying to get their points apart. in this particular instance netanyahu is listening and the president's trying to make his point. >> this was when they caught dylann roof, the young man that killed the eight or seven --

>> nine. >> -- nine, sorry, churchgoers. he was waiting to be announced to go make a statement to the press. >> socks is special. we were buddies, the dog, but this is after a run. you came in at 7:00 in the morning, you did his jog and you started with him. if you came in at 8:00 in the morning, you would have been sweating all day and you may have not -- you were with mrs. clinton all day and you may not have known you were traveling all day. if you come in at 2:00, you don't know when you're going home because if they had guests staying at the house, they liked to give tours. he had gotten so good at the history of the white house, he would tell you stuff. he would even do research on his own and tell you stuff about the house you didn't know and every time i heard him tell somebody something, i'm like i didn't know that.

so he's a very wonderful guy with everything. i love cats. i love dogs. i think everybody should be treated fairly. he's allergic to cats, but he picked the cat up. >> that's president bush with barney. he called barney the son he never had. you might remember barney is the one that bit the hand of the reporter one day. he had to get some stitches, but again this is another situation where, you know, president bush allowed me to photograph him during some of his personal time including early on his administration when he was a jogger. later on he started biking when his knee started hurting, but it's just a personal moment like a real moment with just like any of us with our pets.

that's bo. we were about to do an event with the first lady somewhere. i couldn't tell you where. my memory is shot, but yeah, bo is a great dog. >> that was -- he had just said good-bye to a world leader and he was walking back into the oval office. >> how did you get up there? >> there's a staircase. >> really? >> there's lots of staircases. >> they didn't know. it was a secret. >> a question i had with the photos of the presidents of their pets is how much are you thinking of trying to too humanize the presidents, not to

just capture them while they're working in the office, but with their pets, with their families? what, to present them as full people and -- families, to present them as full people and not just people of authorities? because the photo of president bush with his dog is a very vulnerable photograph. it's not a position you see that kind of leader in. so how much of when you're photographing the president -- >> that's the thing about the kind of photography we do. we're documentarians. what they do is what we shoot. so he and the dog together, that's a shot. you're the photographer. if you missed that shot, you're going to kick yourself the rest of your life. so if you see something, you don't wait on whether or not you have permission, need permission, should you or not, none of that, nor are any of us thinking about humanizing somebody. they're already human. you see them every day and you see them when they're upset. you see them when they're angry

about things that aren't going okay and then you see when somebody hasn't done what they were supposed to do why things western working and then you go oh -- weren't working and then you go oh, it's like being in trouble like you're in school again. that's not good. so we're not discriminating about anything. we're historians. we're visual historians. we are documenting what we see. we're not telling him to pick no dog up or kiss your dog, none of that. we are the behind the scenes people. we are trying to show what real life is, not to show that we're cowards. we're not cowards. we're serious photojournalists who have now turned into serious documentarians documenting stuff that's going to be in encyclopedias for years maybe. that's what i thought when i was a little kid, but now i'm older, all the stuff is going to stand the test of time in some way. now lord knows given the computers and how much images they hold, we can get overdone

with images. this is why facebook has come to be real, but humanizing, they're already human. all we're doing is taking their picture. >> we just take the picture and then we love it up for everyone else to decide -- leave it up for everyone else to decide what it is. >> yeah. >> one of the things is establishing your relationship that allows you access to document those personal moments because they don't just open the door and say hey, come on in. it does take time for them to warm up to you and to trust you and that's part of the job. you know, it's their decision to open their lives and i had the opportunity to document the president as a father, dog owner, as a son, as a texan, a lot of personal time on the ranch. you'll see some of that later.

>> that's the running. we ran all over d.c. and the fun part was when some guests would come not quite in shape, had to crawl back to the van or some of the agents weren't quite in shape and you'd see them at the last van, they can't finish the run, but that was always fun because the press is jostling for position. we've been put out on the corner somewhere waiting for them to all run by us. it's some of the best times because the guy is running? he's seriously running? and the agents, they're running, too. it's very, very cool. >> that's transportation secretary hood. so one of the things we decided was when pete was always with the president, we had a hard time getting in.

chuck, myself, samantha, amanda, but we had to do everything. so one of the ideas was to document the cabinet secretaries like four or five days of them. this particular trip was with lahood. i think it was called transportation week and he went across the country doing different types of events. so i think we did maybe seven or eight, maybe nine of the secretaries. it was just like a photo essay, kind of a week with and that's just one of the pictures. >> that's the final cabinet shot and we did it on the front lawn instead of the cabinet room. the first one was in the cabinet room with bob mcneely, but what else can be done? let's try the lawn out in front and this was our last shot together, everybody. it took time to get everybody's

schedule together. then you got to deal with secret service, bless them, the military, the guys that move the furniture, the head usher of the white house. you have to talk to the gardener, you know, to make sure you're not going to step on the plants or anything because you want to make everybody happy. so i had to talk to everybody to make sure it's all on board and besides having them out there like that, we got to hope it's not going to rain today and we also do mock stuff to make sure it's all right first like two days before i had different staff come out and pretend to be one person or another to make sure this was going to work. so it's fun trying to set stuff up. if you imagine yourself as a portrait photographer in a studio, i got a big studio and it's at the white house and it's the lawn, the front of the house, back of the house, all these wonderful cabinet people. look at them, men and women, men and women.

this is the cabinet. gore wasn't there. gore wasn't there for that one. this is the last shot. so this is stuff that goes on and you put up big lights, big back light. everybody is equally lit and you got the light beams to make sure you got it right. i shot in black and white and color. i like the black and white better than the color. >> any particular reason or just because? >> i'm a black and white girl. >> this photo was taken on the very first day of the administration, january 20th, 2001. this is george w. bush sitting down at the oval office desk for the very first time. what i like about this picture here is you have several layers. you have the personal moment, the proud father watching the son as president sit down. you have the history of two presidents together, only the second son of the president to

become president, the first being john q. adams. then there's always the story behind the story. you see that cord coming from the wall? well, that was a massage chair. i don't know who left it there, but anyway george w. bush is turning the chair on. that's leading to the laughter at that moment. the chair was gone the next morning. >> this is the second inauguration. he's just given his address and he has gone up the steps and he decides to take a couple steps back and look at the crowd just one last time and it's one of my favorite photos because he's just, you know, taking it all in one last time. [ applause ]

>> so this is 9/11 and i was with president bush at the elementary school in sarasota, florida, that morning and what's interesting here is you see the time on the clock. this is around 9:25 and i didn't know exactly what was happening until i walked into the room to see the live pictures of the burning towers and i was waiting for president bush to actually stop. everyone was shocked walking into the room and seeing that horrific image and grant bartlett who is pointing in that photo, the communications director for the president, is actually alerting everyone in the room because we're seeing the first replay of the second tower getting hit and i made a frame right after this where president bush turns to see

that horrific image that's burned into everyone's memory. i was with about the bush -- i was with president bush the entire day on the airplane. this picture was taken as we approached andrews air force base. this was after spending all day on the airplane. we stopped in louisiana. we stopped in nebraska and as we approached andrews air force base, we noticed the fighter jets out the window. that's what they're staring at. apparently they'd been with us the entire day, but we hadn't seen them. it was really kind of shocking to see the fighter jets nearly touching the wings of air force one out of the left side of the plane. out of the right side of the plane you can see the pentagon still smoldering, so very shocking as we approached d.c.

to me 9/11 seemed like a long day, the entire week. i don't think i slept the entire week, but this is a day president bush toured ground zero and this is a famous bullhorn moment where the president stood on the rubble and the retired firefighters that's with him was there to mark the spot for him to stand and the president told him, " you stay here with me," and the moment was purely organic. it's really pretty powerful when it happened and president bush was hugging all the firefighters. you can feel this moment building. he was hugging the firefighters. they're crying with him. this is day four where no survivors are being found and the firefighters were frustrated. they're angry. they wanted him to do something. they're telling him go get them, george, and that's when he came through with the famous line that, " i can hear you. the world hears you and the people who knocked these buildings down will hear from

all of us soon." again the same day after the bullhorn moment such an emotional roller coaster that day. it was quite one of the most photograph in and this was the president walking into a room full of 300 family members that were waiting to find out about their loved ones who are missing and again the hope was just being lost every second. no one was found alive, no survivors, children walking around with handwritten signs have you seen my father? have you seen my mother? it was very sad and the president spent three hours hugging and crying with every single one of them. it was very, very powerful.

>> it would be interesting to know how you dealt with all the emotions and the pain? >> it was difficult. i was hiding behind my camera. i was confronted by a few family members who didn't knowy was there with the camera -- know why i was there with the camera. it was really hard to do and i remember taking about 10 frames. when i hit that frame there, i knew i had something and i walked out and just gave them some privacy because it was so intense. >> sharon and lawrence, do you have similar experiences with just sort of very emotional moments, moments that may have been difficult for family members there? >> when the israeli president was killed and it was a weekend and president clinton, like half a day had gone down and he was on the lawn chipping with his golf club into the hole and i saw one of the guys come up to tell him what happened and the look on his face, i didn't

know what it was, but it was sad as he could be. he went from being a happy go lucky golfer to upset. we go back in the oval and i start to hear what's going on. harold iccies told him what had occurred and it was bad. he cried because we were so close to getting peace in the middle east. the stuff that had been going on there had disrupted everybody and everything. i can't imagine being a kid over there and hearing all that bombing and all that kind of war stuff going on every day of your life and rabine was our best hope for getting to the next phase and now we're not going to have peace and we don't have peace now. the people who make money off war don't want the war over. the people who love peace and want peace, they're not getting it. they're not getting what they want. so it matters that somebody understands a war is not good for things that grow and that includes people and grass and

cows and cats and dogs. we've got some issues about our priorities being all money and not about peace. i a don't care how we -- i don't care how we get the peace. everybody has got to give up something. we need peace at last, 26 years of war, my god. these are the things going on. so do i watch tv? huh-uh. no, no television. i can't deal with the fantasy world of television when the real stuff is happening to all of us and to our friends and to our families. pictures tell that story. i love documentaries. i read everything i can about whatever the issue is. do you know the policies of

economics? make sure you vote. [ applause ] >> when there's a tense moment, you usually don't see the photographer. so i'm good. >> it's usually people coming in on the nature of the meeting. just as the door was closing i heard bernice came in the middle there, she said mr. president, will you pray with us? i did a 180 and ran right in and was able to get a shot of a prayer during the meeting.

>> this is the daughter of james bird who was dragged to death in texas and the state legislature would not pass a hate crime bill and she had been to see everybody in the state of texas. nobody would deal with what she was saying, her and her family, and then when he came, he was there to greet her. him, too, his eyes water, the things that we do, we look for somebody to help us out of the bad situation that we're in and it's not coming fast enough. now there's been so many more james birds since this

incident, we have so far to go and as photographers documenting this kind of stuff, we realize what's working or what's not working. so what do we do next? we keep digging. we keep trying to say we can do better. we have to it through photography to she you it's that bad. -- to show you it's that bad. i'm going to say god bless all the cell phone cameras in america, god bless them, because otherwise we'd be even more james birds. that's what that picture means to me.

why the plane fell out of the sky in croi atixa: i tell you human beings are special and when you lose one because that happens, all the explaining in the world does not take away the pain of what has been lost. ron brown was a great guy. i remember him before he got involved with politics like. the before he became commerce secretary. he is there one day and now he is not coming back. it is a hard thing.

>> very difficult to get them together. so the king of jordan and president clinton invited them to come together and see if they can have lunch together. everybody got death and sat down and put the napkins on their lap: then the king of jordan and president clinton get up and leave them in the room by themselves. and the security was having a fit so clinton was pushing him like you go too. every left. clinton turned to the secret service and says nobody comes in, they don't come out. that's where we left them for a

while. i thought i had died and gone heaven. that's a very sacred woven fabric. we are at a rally and i'm on a big huge pedestal in front of them and i got other photographer windshield me. i saw -- photographers with me. it was a magic moment in my time because never in my day would i think i would be at something like that. you know, state got me ready for -- ohio state got me ready for all this stuff. what you can do on campus, you

can do better in real life. i can probably say i learned a lesson. >> reporter: the 50th anniversary of the -- it was great. it was a great speech. just the energy. the foot soldiers to the right and john lewis, you know, just the history of that moment, you know. it is speechless. of. >> we had a big ceremonial thing and then they go inside to start the dialogue and all the first ladies start talking to each other from each

country. each has their own interpreter. so they just listen only to -- so you are not missing anything about what was said. soy just said -- so i just said, look at this. >> the delaney sisters, boy, they did yoga every day. they had a big huge yard. we are in mound vernon new york -- mount vernon new york. we had to go new york for another event and mrs. clinton wanted to go meet the due lanie sisters -- delaney sisters and we d. they said, oh, they got a photographer. child, how are you? yes, ma'am, i am fine.

yes, i am. that was the first lady getting prepared for a speech, a commencement address to the class. so she's always prepared. she would go over a speech, you know, a dozen times before giving it. that is just going over the notes before giving the speech. so we had an assistant in our office. pete was always with the president. man did a was the first lady's photographer but pete likeds to rotate as well. so every third week i would cover the first lady. this is one of her trips to london. her big initiative was always girls. she is known as the hugger in

chief. she hugs everybody. so this is the transition meeting that happens after every presidential election. in this case president obama meeting withment bush in 2008. hi to make this picture with a are mote camera that i mounted on the man tell of the -- mantle of the fireplace. i was trying toothed camera. i did it -- i was trying to hide the camera. i was on the other side of the coffee table and they only allowed me in the room and both really wanted to get down to business. they were looking at me like are you done yet. they really didn't make a picture and luckilily that camera as a backup. as i was walking out, i made

two frames of them talking as the door closed. luckily one of them worked. >> that's great. >> we are in the mansion in the middle of the day and he's been told by a couple folks that stuff is greg overseas and it is like -- that stuff is growing overseas. imagine you are watching ten pots of soup going on at the same time. that is what is going on. he is trying to decide what is the next step on it. it take's lot of strength as a person to understand all of the destruction that is happening from place to place and are you trying to fix it from place to place. and in all these pieces have to come together the right people to make it work. and you have to pray and hope that the people on the other

side of the country get it, can we pull this together in the same direction. we are going have to pull together. here we folks what are we going to do about this situation? it is a day by day, every t everyday decision. america is the police for the world because no one else will send things to be helpful. everyone in national disasters. we send when other countries don't. not having the resources; not having the how to do it. so how dow it starts with him. -- how dow do it start -- so how do you do it starts with him. soy get it. -- so i get it. i would be around the corner somewhere leaning, that's a picture, get that one too. because you want it to be

exciting photography and not boring. >> it took years to do this because getting them two together in a situation, i was able to have them sit for me at a portrait at camp david. i wanted to get their faces together. again for me, for eight years to have that be parts of the story, you know, the history of the father being president. they have a very traditional relationship. his father would stop by and talk about baseball mostly. they are -- but luckily i was able to capture this unique

portrait not 2007. i had a huge box. they were joking around and making funny faces: you won't see those. and this is president bush the texan: the only place where he can drive his own truck. he had 160-acres to -- 1600- acres to roam. this kind of captures his personality: the tinkle in his eye -- twinnable -- twinkle in his yeah. as we know t presidency -- as

we know, the presidency follows the president everywhere. there's like a mini without that goes -- there's like a miniwhite house that goes where they go. this is a month before 9/11. i see a sense of innocence before the world changed. >> i think that is the last photo in the slide show. we are going have q and a. people with microphones on the side or over here. >> hi everybody: so this brings to the q and a portion of the evening. if you have a question please

raise your hand. we are recording this so if you can please speak clearly into the microphone. our first question. >> did you all have much of a life while you were working? second question, are these photos yours? >> we had no life, none of us. and the photo it is bong to the -- belong to the american people. this is your history, our history. i couldn't keep a dinner date or anything. if people invited me to do something, i could say maybe and not show up ever. but the good thing was, i could show up at something, i could go home -- i would show up of a month later. i said i am sorry i couldn't dom the other thing -- i couldn't come to the other thing, but i am here today. they didn't stay in touch with their friends because they are

from someplace else. i am lucky, my life is in dc, my work and family. i got did best of all worlds. the best part was making new friends at the white house. the next best part was traveling around the country and calling up my buddy and saying we are coming to town. >> my life of wasn't scheduled basically. what you learn is you kind ouch end up following -- you kind of end up following his schedule. you eat when he eats and you sleep when he sleeps: it is more -- it is more like dog years because a lot happens in one day. lucky for me i am married and still married at the time. so my wife worked in the white house for three of the eight years so that helped me a lot.

>> i had a life, yeah. pete did a lot of the heavy lifting. on weekends i would work sometimes but we had a system where every third week you knew that you were not going be working nights or weekends so every third week i would have time with my family. my kids recognize me. >> a question to the front. >> good evening, lady and gentlemen. two questions, is this is the first time that you the three of you have given this presentation and the second question, are you going to pick your presentation -- take your presentation to other cities? >> this is the first time we have sat on a panel together. i am happy do it again. >> yeah.

>> the whole package. >> our next question is to the far left. >> just a two part question related to technology and taking photographs. first part to sharon. sharon can you talk about what it is like to transition from film to digital and what that did to your flow and process? and lauren, are you ever concerned about was cams and perpetual presence of cameras from taking away future jobs in your role? >> you know as good as the -- are you only as good as the last shot you did.

it is competitive. it is to do the best job. you can't worry about other photographers. you worry about doing your job, if you do it good are you going be therefrom if you start messing up, maybe not. the more camera, i think it is better. of course at some p. point you can't have a camera for something. if i forget my cam a i'm dying. ly not use my phone camera. it is not a camera, so i don't use it. i broke my little camera before i came out here: i was so sad about it. i have seen some pictures of some in here and i brought my cell phone on. so when i go home tomorrow, what am i going do, i will be down at the camera shop. the computer thing with the cam a we have a lab that used to work out of the air force base and the lab would do our

processing. they come three and four times day in a truck with a metal case, official military people getting our stuff. we marked our bags, what the principles are in the pictures. then four or five hours, the crew chief comes back. when we start going computers the communication people decided let us get some other cameras, then we get them sooner. well we got our hands full, but okay. so now we carry this heavy camera around and it is not a full frame camera. so you can't see every knew answer about what -- too nuance -- nuance about what you are shooting. you can look good. the computer screen, you are like what? it is not -- no that is the screen. oh i don't need this kind of heart attack: so i had a hard

time. by the time i left, we had start first degree switching over. we are at the first presidential library that literally put everything on disk. now the first got done a year before we left. the coding was not good. you know how you figure out, it didn't hang or didn't stay. so i had to go out and find another company to do it again: i don't like doing staffages. we will getth -- i don't like doing stuff twice. we were getting ready to get out of office. >> well, after sharon left office, we -- i used the film process, you know the lab.

it was during my time that the transition happened and i directed the white house from film to digital. that was a huge job. because of the volume that happened in the white house which you all know, thousands of photos a day with the whole staff to design a work flow and a system to handle the digital files and unfortunately we had to recommission the lab and upgrade a lot of the positions internal inside of the white house. also using digital cameras was another change for us which was a turn off. i love using the cam a i think that was the best tool for us. i think all the 9/11. switching to the digital camera that was noisy, i had to change my style of shooting because of

the noise. unfortunately the digital cameras were not quiet. the first full frame camera that cannon came out w that's when i decided to make the switch. it was something that had toe be done to -- had to be done to keep up with the technology. luckily i will the experience coming from the associated press using digital photographerty to turn the white house into digital. >>ly say you are talking about wearable technology and how things are changing. technology has been changing forever. can you put a camera in someone's hands who is not a photographer and you get crap. if they are talented, you will get something compelling. and today, some cameras are silent: i would love be back

in testimony oval office because they would not hear a thing: they would not know. >> we have a question in the front row on the far right. >> thank you for your wonderful presentation. are any of you in contact with current white house photographers and what do they say, what the heck is going on? >> what do you mean, what do they say? a good friend of ours, she's a chief photographer and doing a great job. in terms of what is going on, she's just doing her job. i mean, honestly. >> we talked about this before for the event and thousand style of photograph -- and how the style of photography is so

different. i am curious to see what you thinkth. your photography seems journalistic and the photos coming from the white house are not as candid, they don't seem to be -- >> they are posed. >> they show president with a figure of authority and not be communicating the same work as your work does. >> this is why pictures are still worth a thousand words. she's going did be all right. she's -- she's going to be all right. she's got work it out. everybody is not the same kind of subject. it takes time to flush it out p. as people get -- it takes time to flush it out. i was scare offend the clintons for years. and one day mrs. clinton says,

oh she speaks: i still pinch myself every day i came into that place. where am i going? am i hanging with the girls and guys? i'm going to work. oh boy. when you realize the magnitude of what you overcome as a kid and your parents have been wonderfully helpful, here are you with this hopefully trying to run the world in a good way. they got some new ideas soy am trying to be flex anden understand. of -- trying to be flexible and understand. so the more information is better. give the other photographer a chance. we don't goat go out like we did before. she's busy. when she gets a break we

whether get to tell her. but it hasn't happened yet. >> you have trough understand that -- have you to understand that all the pictures they are releasing, you are not seeing all the pictures. >> that's the point i was going to make. we don't know what is happening inside. she may have some amazing images that are just sitting in the archive waiting to be shown at some point. we may see those when severing over. we just don't know. time will tell. >> our next question is at the center right. >> thank you all for being here. i loved what you said about studying these men as presidents. i wonder talking about this, if you could synthesize what you learned about them as presidents as you were

photographing them? >> great question. you know you learn a lot. you learn about leadership. especially in a time of crisis. you learn that -- you learn about discipline. andment bush was very -- and president bush was very disciplined. his schedule was very tight. he made sure he put exercise in his schedule every day. it was very important to him: and if anything creeped into that time, he was very upset. i learned that everyone looked to up the president for leadership, you know, and he did a great job of leading our country through some really tough times.

>> for me, watching president obama was a lesson. he was so come passionate with people. he gave himself to a lot of people. once they met him and talked to him, they felt like they were being listened to and heard. just how to treat people with respect and kindness. >> president clinton was late all the time. that was because he talked to everybody. even if they put up barriers to direct him through the line quickly, he would move the barrier and step over it. the next thing i know he was 15 minutes behind, 30 minutes behind, 45 minutes blind and -- blind and this guy is saying, sir, we need to keep moving. what did you say?

he said -- if you disagree with him, he wants to really understand why. so i say he talks a lot. mrs. clinton turned into a talker when she started running for office too. before i realize he finished his line, she hadn't finished hers. so when you meet people have you to take the time with them. there's a whole on the of us that just blow people off because we think they are not important. each and every one of us are important. and for the president of the united states to talk to you, he is telling you that are you important and i want to know what are you thinking. if you disagree with me, i really want to know why. what do you think of that? i hear him give scenarios and listen to people giver them back. unbelievable. >> we have a question to the center right. >> thank you so much for being

here today. i think lauren is shaking his head because i am his niece. so just hearing each of you talk about your experience working in the white house it seems like you say that it was a highlight of your career is almost ands statement -- is almost an understatement. i want to know if you can match your role? >> after you -- after we theft white house? >> yes, after you left the white house. >> so we talked about this. so for me personally, i still want to take pictures that. is what i have always done and what i love to do. if i am taking pictures of a college basketball game i am happy taking pictures. now it is not at the level of covering president obama. but there's real emotion in it.

but there's still real emotions in moments in that and i enjoy that. >> everything is a let down. no. it is just like lauren said, it really is an experience on the same level of intensity and importance travel and you know one of the things that -- once it is over, it is over. it is like senn deremember la -- rain deremember la -- cinderella. it is like leaving high school and like lauren said, you know, i have always been a photographer and i will don't work on stories.

>> i'm lucky. i got wonderful clients around dc. a lot of them are nonprofits. -- nonprofits. i am part of a group of 40-plus photographers called the exposure group. we meet once a month. so we can keep the next generation coming. it is a wond deful with -- wonderful way to make a leading. all this leads to other stuff. and it is creative. photographty is my joy. and i keep meeting new people. i do not stay home. people are my juice because every person brings something where their personality or the job to the place. and by doing that, you let me

shoot it, i'm telling a story because you let me and i get to meet new people. it is just a wonderful way for me to live my life. i still play music. i stills and goof around: i -- i still mess and goof around. i'm lucky, i got everything one can want after doing the white house. steady money coming in. happy life. pets that love me. it is about love in the house. and then the neighbors, oh my god, what can i say? good neighbors make good friends. and it takes time for that. you get new people coming in. hi neighbor, welcome. welcome people to the hood. when we first moved over, nobody wanted to live over there. now everybody want to live over therefrom you know i think -- now everybody want to live over there. you know i think something is

wrong. >> next question. >> so lj and eric. you are seen photo journalist with the associated press and moving into a white house position. there's a little inside baseball story. and i worked in dc with all these guys, so. there's a little bit of controversy within the journalism world to media photographers covering the white house. having done it, you can't get everybody in all the time, it is a tight space. eric being chief photographer, did you have a roll in any -- role in any of those? i don't know if you had as many controversies during obama, i don't know lawrence i am curious what keith's role was

in having control over, let's let people in and not let people in: talk about that a little bit p. i'm sorry, it is a multiprong question. when you are shooting your suggest, the president, and then humanizing them, it may not be your objective when shooting but clearly when the photo is released, there's some role that communication plays. but as a photographer where you in that? you are doing news, this is what happened, these are the photos. but when you are at the white house and doing the photos, dow have any input, you say i have great shots of them, or is it all done by communications? >> in communications people did not pressure us.

mcneilly, bless his heart, we are skilled people, we know what we are doing. and the communication people are going mess it up. we go through that with them in our group: but, you trust the eye of the person you hired to do the job. bob trusted us. he had seen our work and knew what we could do. we knew what we could do. you talk about confidence here about what we could get done. of kali and the way they did herself is a prime example of a bad photographer. now bad is good, now. she could shoot like crazy, tell a story. it is how the other people act around you. you got make sure you don't acts like them. you got keep yourself grounded. look in the mirror and say am i

doing the right thing? you know let people make fun ouch you. you are -- make fun of you. are you human. >> that's a great question. during my time with dig -- during my time with digital photography becoming prevalent and the demand for images became great where my offers was always been being pounded for images. i was always a part of the process in terms of generating the selection for photoset be released. the final decisions were made by the communication office. they would decide on photos that would be released and i would -- sometimes i would argue with them in terms that i felt some were better than oses. but they would look at it with different eyes: sometimes the is with approximate overly

critical eyes but that is the nature of the business. and i see where you will getting at in terms of photo releases and wait meant for access -- and what it meant for access, media photographers. we see the same criticism because we released more photos than the clinton administration and i'm sure obama administration released for photos than us. but that doesn't necessarily equal less openness in terms of allowing things to come in. we received the same criticism. but it is just the nature of the times and just like, you know, the evolution of the white house. now everyone expects the next administration to do just the same thing. but they are not. so that is why everyone is

surprised. but they are difference. you know everyone has a difference mindset and everyone uses the technology differently: i don't know if that annals your question -- i don't know if that answers your questions. >> pretty much what eric said. the explosion of social media during the obama administration. the pictures fed so much of that. you had facebook, you had flicker, you had instagram. all that stuff with media content it and was produced by photographers in the photo office. in terms of the access to the media, you know, i really think that the communication offers realized that they could reach their target audience by going around newspapers or magazines and going directly to. that was the choice. had you the first president do

an interview between two ferns. that was hugely, hugely popular and successful. so, you know, i used to ap. we know the power of the ap and you know the power of the newspaper. but at that time they were just going in a different direction. and sortover keith, i don't think he had that -- i don't think he was opposed to it but i don't think he had that much say in terms of who was going cover the president. >> we were a little more flexible. we brought in a news week if photographer or time magazine or someone from the new york times to shadow a photographer. diana from time magazine, diane walker, she come. when you do stuff like that,

they know the rules. when you say you got do go because something is getting sensitive, you got to go. so part of the deal about being with the white house photographer is you get to cover what we cover, see what we see. when we say you got to go, you got to go. we had a large aments of photographers. -- we had a large amount of photographers. what i call money issues, they don't like shareholders. they seem to be more aware about the shareholders now than the content. i have watched this film crew go from five or six for each outlet, now they pool their camera. everybody shoot it is same thing. the still photographers that used to freelance,.

they were not given access. the companies decide to make things smaller. when i worked for associated press, i was an editor. we get to seer and we decide where people need to go and then you find out some people are not aloud. so i get a phone call saying they want us to put the camera up to our eyes. excuse me, wait a minute, they are telling you what? they say leave them on the ground until they tell us to put them up. we are mad. don't be mad. keep talking and negotiate. what do i do? i said, if you take a picture, i will be happy. don't -- take a picture, no matter what. okay. so people took pictures anyway. this started a fight between the press trying to cover the president. they made their own problems.

not the photographers. you know that ain't right. >> one last question to the far right in the front. >> thank you very much. i was very interested in the photo that eric took bt with president bush and president electment other bam malt -- obama. i was curious to what the rules of the game was. can you shoot remotely anywhere? it is one thing when you are in the room and they know are you in the room. i know when technology changes, you had similar advances that let you shoot remotely and more hidden in a sense that they didn't know you were there: so curious about the rules offense the game there and the separation that goes into thinking about am i going to put it here above the fireplace and what security issues may be involved in that as well.

>> in that situation i asked president bush if i could put a cram above the -- put a camera above the mantle f. actually -- was mantle. actually i did not ask. they were like go ahead. soy show up at 5:00 1 in the morning and i put it there: i had to get the blessing of the president. the president walks in and he sits at the decembering and says what the -- sits he decembering and -- desk and says what the shell that. -- and says what the hell is that. was we want to make sure that they don't think we are trying to spy on them. it was all his blessing from for me to do that. or it wouldn't be l.

>> so you said what the rules are and the rules are if the president approves it, that's the rule. yeah. >> nobody can bother you if it is okay with him. >> all right. that is all the time we have for tonight: please give our speakers and moderators a round of applause. and this is not a -- lauren, where can people find you? >> on instagram. jack images. >> and eric. >> sharon. >> and jamal.

>> i'm at jbouie. >> thank you for coming out. can you get your parking validated at the front desk. have a great evening. go. so we did a lot >> at 5301 tim p.m. on monday the -- at 5:30 on monday the senate will take another vote. when the senate is back in session on monday, live coverage on our companion

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