cars in our collection, but i think they represent a real cross-section of the american automobile over the last century and a quarter. announcer: you can watch this and other artifacts programs by visiting our website, c-span.org/history. >> next on american history tv, three former white house photographers talk about their work with presidents george w. bush, bill clinton, and barack obama. sharon farmer, aaron draper, and lawrence jackson share photographs showing presidents in their public and private moments. we also see first families and white house staff and hear the stories behind each scene. the annenberg space for photography hosted the event. it's about an hour and 40 minutes. >> good evening, everyone.

how is everyone doing tonight? glad to hear it. i am the education and public programs manager here at the annenberg space for photography. welcome to our event, photographing the presidents, part of our programming roster in support of our newest exhibition, not an ostrich. this exhibition tells the story of america through photography from the archives of the library of congress, many of which have never been exhibited. through these stories, we tell pieces of history, both well-known and less so. nothing has shaped america like the history of the president of the united states. tonight, we are so lucky to welcome three photographers who have worked as official photographers at the white house for the past three administrations. they have been in the room where it happens and they have the photographs to prove it.

we will hear from them what it was like working alongside the president during big moment sense all -- moments and small. joining us is a chief political correspondent for slate magazine and cbs news. he covers campaigns, elections, and national affairs. his work has appeared online and imprint at the new yorker, the washington post, the nation, and other publications. he is from virginia beach, virginia, and attended the university of virginia, where he graduated with degrees in political and social thought and government. please join me in welcoming him and our photographers to the stage. [applause]

>> hello. thank you for coming out. i am going to introduce our wonderful panelists. to my immediate right, sharon farmer, a professional photojournalist and exhibition photographer for 40 years, shooting news stories, cultural events, campaigns, and conferences, and portraits. most notably, she was the first african-american woman to be hired as white house photographer -- [applause] as well as the first african-american and first woman to become director of the white house photography office. [applause] she served as director of the white house photography office from 1999-2001, and as the white

house photographer from 1993 document in the beginning of the clinton-gore administration. next to sharon is eric draper. [applause] eric served as president george w bush's chief at order for for the entire eight years of the bush presidency, photographing him daily during his activities at the office, abroad, and in his personal life. he was eventually named daschle assistant to the president -- special assistant to the president and the first white house photographer to be named a commissioned officer to the president. [applause] during his tenure, eric also directed the photographic and archival conversion of the white house photography office from film to digital. and last but certainly not

least, lawrence jackson. [applause] certainly. certainly not. lawrence spent his career working as a virginia pilot for 10 years, covering sports and news before joining the associated press in boston in 2000. he transferred to the d.c. bureau in 2002 where he covered capitol hill, the white house, and major sports teams for seven more years. in march of 2009, he became an official white house photographer for the obama administration, where he stayed until 2017. in march of 2017, he began a freelance photography business, providing editorial, corporate, and portrait photography. [applause] so, we have a lot of photos. before we get to those, i want to ask a general question of the panelists.

i am curious how you became white house photographers. if you could talk a little bit about how you got to that position. >> my parents always had a camera in the house. if they got a picture of me, it was a miracle, because i could barely sit still in church. i played clarinet and bassoon. my mother would say you look lovely, let me get the camera. i love music, but when i saw football, that's how i got started. it was like magic. this is very interesting. that's how i got started. >> what was the path from discovering the magic of the

dark room to photographing the clinton-gore administration? >> being an activist and the fbi recognizing that. because if you don't stand up for something, you are going to get done in by everything. [applause] i am clear that photography was an activist thing to do. we had demonstrations on the campus of ohio state because things were going on. we had less and 300 blacks duden's -- students out of 40,000. we would get carted getting off the jitney bus. i started working for a black student paper. i went on to be the editor, managing editor, and the photographer. so, we did all the things we were supposed to do to make it a

democratic campus. that's what happened to me. the more you see injustice, the more you go, mmm. thank heavens, the members of my sorority felt the same way i did. the white folks didn't like what was going on either. one thing does lead to another. when you are taking pictures and folks are telling you how well you are doing, by now, i am loose in the community. i am shooting everything in columbus, ohio. i met a wonderful photographer named valentine. he was known by one name -- valentine. and he worked for everybody. babies and churches. i am like, babies and churches, ok. i did that too. the more i did, the better i got.

then i discovered i liked all that stuff. it didn't matter what it was because it was photography. plus, you know taking pictures is fun. so, the idea of working in the field and getting paid for it, i had died and gone to heaven. and i still played my music. my dining room was my music room. we got crazy in there. we would jam and throwdown. when you do stuff for good people, good things happen. share and, should the sunday school. sure. i shot this guys sunday school class. weeks later, i have a great job. it pays $5,000 for the day. you don't know what you do until you do it. being kind is the best thing we can do for each other.

be kind. that's what happened. [applause] >> i did not think i had an fbi record when i started. i don't know, actually. my story began without knowing i would end up in the white house. i was a newspaper photographer in the photographer with the associated press for eight years, covering every story you could think of from campaigns to sports. the 2000 campaign rolls around, and it began as an assignment. you are covering texas governor george w. bush. ok. but my desire to pursue the white house didn't start until after the election. you might remember the recount. [laughter] i blame everything on the recount, because if the election

had been decided that night, i don't think i would have ended up where i was. during the recount, i decided to per do that position. -- pursue the position. i had the opportunity to ask the president-elect for the job and i was invited to the christmas party in austin, texas. i made my direct pitch for the job. at the party, my wife was there, coaching on the sidelines when to make my move, and i walked up and said thank you for inviting us to the party, by the way, i went to be your personal photographer. he didn't blink. he looked at me like he had never thought about it before. and then his chief of staff pretty much offered me the job on the spot. his first question was, can you manage question mark i said yes.

i never had before. he told me working at the white house is like trying to drink water from a fire hose at full throttle, and he was right. >> i originally applied to be the chief photographer like these guys did. i did not get it. but pete had my portfolio. he was named chief photographer and he called me up. he said do you want to work for the administration? i was like, sure, and that was it. pretty simple. >> was there anything in particular that prompted you to want to be -- >> yeah, i tell the story about the night i was covering bush at the white house for the ap, and

barack obama beats john mccain for the presidency, and i go out to the lobby, and all these college kids are celebrating and chanting. there was an energy to the whole thing. i was transfixed by it. i was going home at night and they said to myself, if i can work for this president, i am going to do it. i told my wife i was applying. i applied. i didn't get it and then pete said i want you to work for me. it's funny because the job pays this much. i was like, how much? i had go back to my wife and say look, this pays less than what i made at the ap, and she said i will get a job if you are taking this job, so if it weren't for my wife -- [applause]

quite so, we're going to go through the photos we have an chat about them, have some discussion. and after that, we will have some questions. the first photo -- i think you took this. >> i did. >> can you say what is happening in this photo? >> the helicopter pilots were doing test runs to land on the south lawn, and they invited us to participate. we did 4, 5, maybe six touchdowns, kind of circled around the city, and this is what they see every time they

come in for the approach of the landing. >> i am sure you took similar photos to this. >> not in the cut it. -- cockpit. >> it's interesting. i took the exact same photo probably about four years earlier. [laughter] it's an incredible view, one-of-a-kind. >> that one's mine. it's fun to try to figure out where to be before everybody starts. nobody tried to direct me what to do. i have to figure it out. i am always looking for composition. you are only as good as role last picture. i am always moving around because there are journalists, photographers, and videographers

and i have my crew. mcneilly when i started. barbara kenny and me were having a blast competing with each other taking pictures, and when you compete, you get better. i have never turned down competition. if you ever want to see what you can do for yourself, compete with somebody. [laughter] this is mine again. you can always tell who gets who. [laughter] the fun stuff about being a fly on the wall is you read the papers the next day and they say something happened and you are like, they weren't even in the room. [laughter] medias when i knew the was not all cool either. some of my friends but those are

writers messing up. a picture is still worth a thousand words. it can tell you in a heartbeat what's going on. stuff is going on. i hear everything, but i don't keep it. i am looking for the photo that says this is a serious meeting. >> speaking of serious, this moment was taken in march of 2003, at the time president bush decided to go to war in iraq. this photo was taken right after he made that decision, which was made in the situation room. minutes before this photo was taken. i will never forget that day because it was so intense leading up to that moment. i was standing outside the situation room waiting for the meeting to end. the door comes open and ice he -- and i see his face.

his eyes were full of tears. i wanted to take a picture but i had to jump out of the way or he would have collided with me. he walked out of the oval office, didn't talk to anyone, walked the entire length of the south lawn with the dog, very emotional. i decided to hold back. i did not know what was happening. i waited, and you could see the weight of the decision on his face. he spoke to me after he took this and said, eric, are you interested in history? i said yes, sir. he didn't speak to me every day. i didn't brief him. [laughter] unusual for him to talk to me. he said, the pictures you are taking are very important, the ones in the situation room and the one here. ,s he said that, i made a frame the vice president and donald rumsfeld came over and started discussing the timing of the war. it was very intense. veryl of these photos are

fly on the wall shots, i am curious to know the experience of being invisible, being in close proximity, watching and observing, knowing you have to document, but being unobtrusive. talk about the experience of being there. --when you walk into the anyplace on that campus, it is government. this government is mighty. it takes care of a lot of issues not only in our country, but around the world. the intensity of being a fly on the wall means you don't want anybody to respond to anything you do. i had a lot of gear. if i get stuck in a place, i have choices of cameras, choices

of lenses, two cameras around my neck, a wide lens camera and a -- and they should not hear me move. i am a quiet mover. all that karate and took through the years paid off. i am stealthy. imovie smooth. move've move smooth -- i smooth. i don't break anything. i am concentrating on the pictures because yes, i am a fly, a piece of the furniture. do not touch the furniture. you are getting what nobody else is getting, and as time goes on, everything is going to get seen. that's a fun about being a photographer. you may be dead but you go on.

[laughter] >> it's a unique role in the white house because everyone else is there to interact with the president, and our job is to be a professional observer, to disappear into the background if we can. sometimes, we are too close to the situation. like you said -- instead a fly on the wall which can be annoying. i compare it more to furniture in the room where they trust your presence, and if you are not there, that rings more of an alarm. that's part of the job, just being there. sometimes nothing is happening and you are just trying to stay awake. and some days are intense. like this picture here. it depends on the situation. me, the obamas are what we call naturals in photojournalism. they are always himself. they are aware of the camera but they don't care about the

camera. it helps make our job easier. you will see some of the pictures. you can see them being held -- being themselves regardless of a camera being in the room. [laughter] >> i can't remember the name of the interviewer, but he did an interview in the east room, and a fly landed on his shoulder, and he was so quick he killed it. [laughter] and he went on with the interview, and after the interview, he took out a tissue and picked up the fly. [laughter] >> that is such an on the nose story about barack obama. if you had not told me, i would not have believed it. >> it was mrs. clinton's birthday and we were going to

the mansion for the celebration at the rose garden. in that shot who was key. it was a happy time. things are getting done. i was still pinching myself every day. remember, i am from health east -- southeast washington, d.c.. [applause] i was clear that me being there was an aberration. [laughter] the fbi let me through and i was like, it must be a new day for real in government. the other presidents didn't spend any time in d.c., but the clintons loves to go out and eat and meet people, shake hands. i thought these people are different. it was so cool. d.c. had arrived at last.

[laughter] >> so, i like to call this photo timing is everything. [laughter] this was taken the first week of the administration. we all know that president bush was very timely. he hated to be late. he started his meetings on time or early. this was an illustration of that. i got very lucky. i raised the camera right as it was happening, and luckily, no one was walking up the hall. >> that was a foreign leader call. i could not tell you who the leaders were. whatever the issue is, he would come in and have people brief him on the topic, then take the call. i don't know why he had to serious look on his face,

honestly. i can't remember. >> my guy has a serious look is -- because all kinds of stuff is going on. rwanda. yugoslavia has broken up. things are happening. it was like, what next? people would give him advice, fortunate because i do carry different lenses. i can pull up whatever i need to make it work. i wait to shoot the shot. if you shoot before you're ready, when you are ready, it's too late. you want to lay on it. you are hunting. you do not heard anything but -- hurt anything but you are hunting. you want your first shot to be the one. because there is seriousness to what is going on. that's why the leica would come out. nobody even knows i was taking a picture.

>> the president is deciding to go for osama bin laden. room, it came into the was a typical morning. he was about to take off for a space shuttle launch. i could tell there was a lot of and energy in the room, and i felt that something was off. something was about to happen. the president comes into the room, and i am about that far away from him, and i take two shots. that's the first. the second, you can see them waving me out of the room. that's happened before, no big deal. then he goes on the air and says

we got osama bin laden. and i found out later that he decided to go. -- that is when he decided to go. >> we see presidents being very serious and somber, kind of whimsical with the clintons, and the photos of bush and cheney, my question for all of you, can you talk about the emotional tone of being around the president. obviously, every day is not a serious day. every day is not a loose, lighthearted day. it is a job, and like all jobs, there are highs and lows. what is it like to be there when there is a low?

the public has an idea of what it's like to be around the president, but sometimes, not much is going on. >> it is an office. it is an office of serious responsibility, and as a photographer, you are part of the documentation. you are charged with capturing everything, not just a little bit. even in the downtime, there is something going on with somebody else. another national security person, or mrs. clinton, or the secretary of state coming in to visit, there are things going on. wethere is very -- a low, are editing pictures. otherwise, things get backed up. where are my photos? we switched from film to computers when i was there. i came in one day and all my proof sheets were gone and there

was a computer on my desk. i was like, what's this? [laughter] they were like, it's your new computer. i don't want to computer. [laughter] you have to have a computer. i do not want a computer. i faught them off for six months. where are my proof sheets? but it's about being behind. any time you come to work at 5:30 a.m. because you know you are behind, and you can trust your editors to do it, but i am in the emotional part of what is being done and i have a little more insight that i don't even talk about. i know why some pictures are more important than others. are your eyes only open -- fully open? i don't take pictures of people with their tongue hanging out of their mouth. if you are blinking, if you are scratching your nose, i am not shooting that. [laughter] i will wait on you.

so, there is part that's like, how many times is this guy going to pick his nose while he is talking to the president about whatever is important? [laughter] we are human. it's one of those things where, you study someone for so long, i mean, i studied president george w. bush for eight years. i could hear his voice and know what mood he was in. i could study micro expressions. we had nonverbal communication of when i should be there, when i shouldn't be there. i found hiding areas. he was always on my radar even eat -- even if he could not see me. i would come out at certain times. but some things are like an emotional roller coaster. the morning started out seriously because the first thing the president read was the

threat messages. threats to our country. the president is reading a serious document. from there, meetings. photo ops. meeting witho a the elementary school teacher of year. or the situation room for a crisis. it's really a roller coaster. that's what makes it really interesting throughout the day. so many stories going on your -- so many stories going on. and everything in front of you is a story. with the president. but you look behind you, and there are stories. stories of the staff. of the presidents senior aides have some of the same emotions. there are lots of stories going on. sometimes it's hard to just focus on the president because there is so much going on around

you. it was like disneyland for photography, to be honest. every day, i could take a story to follow. it would get dull because of the monotony of the repetitiveness. but all you have to do is have another cup of coffee, wake up, and there is another story to follow. the president sets the tone. if the president is in a good mood, you try to be in a good mood. if he is in a somber mood and focused on something, you try to follow that. egos -- you go from the situation room to a wounded warrior visit, he matches the tone of each meeting with the right energy and words. that is tough.

coaster tol roller meet the needs of the situation all the time. >> next photo. >> this is the big meeting. we have lots of things going on. but at the end, he smiled, and the rest of them were smiling, too. some things turn out ok when they are difficult. the tone and the mood. this guy liked to have a good time. his mom liked to have a good time. mrs. clinton liked to have a good time. and then serious things would happen. everybody would seriously tried to get health care passed. he seriously tried to get countries to take in refugees. they were seriously worried but -- and you would watch all this stuff. you would be scared to death if you saw and heard everything i

did. i would say, lord, and my partner would say, what is wrong with you? it's been a long day today. but it's ok. she was like -- i knew i could handle it. you would hear, can you handle it today? because you hear things no one else gets to hear. you see things, interactions with staff as they try to get along. you have a big, huge, i call it sandpit. and you have to decide which fans you want to stand on to make sure you get your picture. the only person who was my boss was the president. someone told me i had to go and i said -- i don't work for you. [laughter] i smiled and stepped back. six months later he was gone. [laughter]

when you are with somebody every day, getting up early to catch air force one, that's one thing. but the food is good. the camaraderie is wonderful. we don't have to go through tsa. [laughter] i think that was fairly early on in 2009. maybe his first meeting with netanyahu. the body language was -- they were getting to know each other. they are trying to get their points across. in this instance, netanyahu is listening as the president is trying to make his point. caught was when they dylan roof, the young man who

nine churchgoers. he was waiting to make a statement to the press. [laughter] socks is special. so was buddy the dog. if you come in at 8:00 in the morning, you were with mrs. clinton all day. would beot know if you traveling, when she goes, you go. if you come in at noon, you don't know where you are going. he liked to give tours. he got good about the history of the white house. he would tell you stuff, and he would do research on his own and tell you stuff about the house you didn't know. when i heard him talk i was like, i didn't know that.

[laughter] he is a wonderful guy with everything. i love cats and dogs. i think everybody should be treated fairly. he is allergic to cats. but he take the -- picked the cat up. >> that is president bush with barney. he called barney the son he never had. [laughter] barney is the one who bit the hand of a reporter one day -- left some stitches. this was when the president allowed me to observe some of his personal time. including early on when he was a jogger. later on, he started biking. it was just a personal moment, a real moment like any of us with our pets.

>> that's bo. [laughter] we were about to do an event with the first lady somewhere. i could not tell you where. my memory is shot. but bo was a great dog. that was -- he had just said goodbye to a world leader and he was walking back into the oval office. >> how did you get up there? >> there is a staircase. >> really? [laughter] >> you never saw it? >> no, i did. i thought maybe they did not know. >> a question i have about the presidents with their pets, how much are you thinking about trying to humanize a president, not just capture them while they

are working in the office, but with their pets, their families, to humanize them? to present them as full people and not just symbols of authority. aesident bush with his dog is vulnerable photograph, not a position you see the world leader in. >> the difference about the kind of photographer we do, we are documentarians, what they do is what we shoot. he and the dog together, you are photographer, if you miss that, you will kick yourself the rest of your life. permission.ait on none of that. nor are any of us thinking about humanizing anybody. they are already human. we see them every day. we see them when they are upset,

you see them when they are angry, and when somebody hasn't done what they were supposed to do and things are working. and then you go, somebody is going to be in trouble. like you were in school again. that's not good. we are not discriminating about anything. we are historians. visual historians. we are documenting what we see. we are not telling him to pick up the dog or kiss the dog. we are the behind-the-scenes people. we are trying to show what real life is. we are not cowards. we are serious photojournalists. who have turned into serious documentarians documenting stuff that will be in encyclopedias in a few years. all of this is going to stand the test of time in some ways. lord knows now with computers and how many images they hold, we can get overdone with images,

this is why facebook is real. but humanizing, all we are doing is taking their picture. they are already human. >> we just take the picture. we leave it up for everyone else to decide what it is. >> one of the things is establishing the relationship that allows you access to document those personal moment. they do not just open the door and say, come on in. it takes time for them to warm up to you and trust you. that is part of the job. it is their decision to open their eyes. -- lives. to have the opportunity to document the president as a father, dog owner, son, texan. a lot of personal time on the ranch.

>> we ran all over d.c. the fun part was when some guests would come. not quite in shape. [laughter] had to crawl back to the van. some of the agents were in good shape. you would see them at the last van getting on board, could not finish the run. it was always fun because the president is jostling for position. we are waiting for them to run bias. -- by us. we had some of the best times. the guy is running? he is seriously running. agents are running too. it is very cool. >> that is transportation secretary ray lahood.

we had a hard time getting in. chuck, samantha and myself, so -- amanda, so we tried to do other things, one of the things was to document the cabinet secretaries. this particular trip, he went across the country doing different types of events. i think transportation week. i think we did maybe 7, 8 or nine of the secretary. it was a photo essay. that is just one of those pictures. >> that is the final cabinet shot. we did it on the front lawn. instead of in the cabinet room. first one done by bonnie neely in the cabinet room. we have not tried the lawn out in front. this is our last shot together. it took time to get everybody's schedule together.

then you have to deal with secret service. the military. -- the guys to move the furniture. had asher, gardner -- head as usher,gardner -- head gardener to make sure you will not step on the plants or anything, because you want to make everybody happy. i have to talk to everybody to make sure it is all on board. beside having them out there like that, we do mock stuff to make sure. two days before i had different staff come out and pretend to be one person or another to make sure this was going to work. it is fun trying to set stuff up. i have a big studio and it is at the white house. the back of the house, all of these wonderful cabinet people. look at them. men and women. it is cabinet.

this is the cabinet. gore was doing something else. this was stuff that goes on. lit.body is evenly i shot in color and in black and white. i like the black and white better than the color. >> any particular reason? >> i am a black and white girl. >> this photo was taken the first day of the administration, january 20, 2001. george w. bush sitting down at the oval office for the first time. what i like about this picture is you have several layers here. you have that personal moment, the proud father watching his son. he loved the history of two president together.

only the second son of a president becoming president. there is a story behind the story. the cord coming from the wall? that was a massage chair. [laughter] >> i don't know who left it there. that is leading to laughter at that moment. the chair was gone the next morning. [laughter] >> this is the second inauguration. he had just given his address. taking a couple steps back to look at the crowd one lifetime. -- one last time. he is taking it all in one last time.

[applause] >> this is 9/11. i was with president bush at the elementary school in florida that morning. what is interesting here, you see the time on the clock. this is about 9:25. this is about 9:25. i did not know exactly what was happening until i walked into the room to see live pictures of the burning towers. i was waiting for president bush to stop the television. everyone was shocked, seeing that horrific image. bartlett, who is pointing in that photo is actually alerting everyone in the room because we are seeing the first replay of the second tower getting hit. another frame right after this when the president turns to see that horrific image.

i was with president bush the entire day on the airplane. this picture was taken as we approached andrews air force base. this was after spending all day on the airplane. we stopped in louisiana, in nebraska. as we approached andrews air force base, we noticed the fire will -- fighter jets out the window. apparently they had been with us a the entire day, but we had not seen them. it is really this shocking thing to see the fighter jets nearly touching the wings of air force one. out of the right side of the plane, you can see the pentagon still smoldering. a it was very shocking as we approached. are approached.

a later that week, to me, 9/11 a seems like a long day. a i don't think i slept the entire week. this is a day that president bush toured ground zero. the president stood on the work a rubble and the retired firefighter with him was there a to mark the spot for him to stand. the president told him, you stay here with me. the moment was purely organic. it was powerful when it a happened. president bush was hogging all a a apresident bush was hogging hugging the firefighters. you can feel this moment building. the firefighters are crying with them. this is day four. no survivors are being found. they wanted him to do something. they are telling him, go get them, george. that is when he came through with a famous line of i can hear you, the world hears you, and the people will hear from all of

us soon. -- and people who knocked these buildings down will hear from all of us soon. the same day, after the bullhorn moment, such an emotional roller coaster that day. this was one of the most difficult situations i had to photograph in. this is the president walking into a room full of family members that were waiting to find out about their loved ones that were missing. again, hope was being lost every law second because no one was being found alive. no survivors. there were children walking around with handwritten signs of i have you seen my father or have you seen my mother? the president spent three hours hugging and crying with every single one of them. it was very powerful. >> i would be interested to you>> i would be interested to are know, if you would like to talk about it at all, how did you yourself deal with the experience of all that emotion and pain?

>> it was tough. a it really was. i was hiding my tears with my camera. it was such a sad situation. will was concluded by a few family members who did not know while it was there with a camera. when i hit that frame there, i knew i had something. a i walked out and gave them some privacy because it was so intense. you >> did you have similar experiences? >> it was a weekend. president clinton, it was about a half day going down and a he was on the lawn with his golf club. i saw one of the guys come out to tell him what had happened. the look on his face? i did not know what it was, but he was sad as could be.

he went from a happy-go-lucky golfer to upset. we go back into the oval, and i start to hear what was going on. harold told him what had occurred. it was bad. he cried because we were so close to getting peace in the middle east. the stuff that has been going on there has disrupted everybody and everything. i cannot imagine being a kid over there and hearing all that bombing and all that kind of war stuff going on every day of your life. and rabin was our best hope for getting to the next phase, and now we are not going to have peace. the people who make money off of war do not want war over. the people who love peace, they are not getting it. we are not getting what we want. it matters that somebody understands that war is not good for things that grow, and that includes people, grass, cows,

cats and dogs. recut issues -- we have got issues about our priorities being about money and not peace. i don't care how we get the peace. everybody has to give up something. we need peace in the world. the last 26 years of war, these are the things that have been going on. so, do i watch tv? no. no television. i cannot deal with the fantasy world of television when the real stuff is happening to all of us and to our friends and family. pictures tell that story. i love documentaries. i read everything i can. anytime i put my nose in an all -- an economic book, trying to understand what is going on with the business of economics, why am i looking at an economics book?

i know how to add and subtract. but policies about economics? if you do not go, you do not have a nickel or a quarter. you make sure you vote. >> when there is an intense moment, the usually do not see the photographer. this is a quiet moment. this is the king family. this is in 2002. coretta scott king is holding the plans for the mlk memorial. typically, my routine for meetings was that i would photograph the people coming in, depending on the nature of the meeting. i was walking out of the room, just as the door was closing, i heard bernice. she said mr. president, will you pray with us? i did a 180 and was able to get a shot of the prayer.

>> this was the daughter of james byrd, who was killed in -- who was dragged to death in texas. i'm the state legislature would not pass a hate crime bill. she had been to see everybody in the state of texas. nobody would deal with what she was saying. her and her family. when he came she was there to greet us. she cried and cried. it was one of the most emotional things i ever experienced. just seeing him get redder, his eyes water. the things that we do to each other, we look for somebody to help us out of a bad situation that we are in. it is not coming fast enough. there are so many more james byrds.

we have so far to go. photographers documenting this kind of stuff, we are on the front line of what is working and what is not working. what do we do next? we keep digging. we keep saying that we can do better. we have to do it through photography to show you that it is that bad. god bless all the cell phone cameras in america. god bless them because otherwise we would see even more james byrds. that is what that picture means to me. >> the supreme court decision came down that morning. a guy named jeff taylor had this concept a day or two before this. everyone ran with it. it was a really beautiful night. >> i was out there, actually.

>> listening to how the plane fell out of the sky in croatia. military trying to explain what happened. i got to hear all of that. i tell you, human beings are special. when you lose a special one because of something you hope would not happen but it happens? all the explaining in the world does not take away the pain of the loss. ron brown was a great guy. i remember him before he got involved with politics like this. before he became commerce secretary. he is there one day and now he is not coming back. it is a hard thing. plus, some of the people on the plane with him our friends from the commerce department. no explanation will take away the pain of what happened.

this was seriously like, this is what happened. we were like, oh, my god. this was deep. very difficult to get arafat and netanyahu together. the king of jordan and president clinton invited to get together. let's go to lunch together. everybody sat down and got some food. napkins on their lap. then, the king of jordan and president clinton get up. and they leave them in the room by themselves. the security was having a fit. president clinton is pushing them out of the room. you go, too. you leave. everybody left. president clinton turned to the secret service and said nobody goes in, they do not go out. and that is how we left them for a while. [laughter]

>> i love this. i thought i'd died and gone to heaven. because the president of the united states, wearing a kente cloth. that is a sacred, woven fabric done from the heart of people who work on this stuff. we are at a rally in ghana. i am on a huge pedestal in front of them. i got other photographers with me. i just happened to turn around and saw the crowd still coming. i thought, whoa. all you could see was clouds of dust because people were still coming. it was a magic moment in my time because never in my day would i have ever thought i would be at something like this. remember now. i'm from southeast d.c. it was the beginning of my whole world. ohio state got me ready for all of this because what you do on campus, you could do better in

real life if you learn the lessons they were trying to teach you. i can probably say i learned the lessons. >> the 50th anniversary. the march on selma. it was great. it was a great speech. just the energy. the foot soldiers to the right and john lewis, just the history of that moment, speechless. appeared onstage, praying. >> the president of china came. we had a big ceremonial thing. they started the dialogue. always, the first ladies are always talking to each other from each of the countries in them a guys are talking to each

other. each one has their own interpreter. each one. you are not missing anything about what is being said. so i just said, well, look at this. the delany sisters. boy. sharp as a tack. i hope when i get the old i can still talk, too. they did yoga every day. they had a huge jar of garlic. the book "having our say" had come out. we had to go to new york for another event. mrs. clinton wanted to meet the delany sisters. so, we did. boy, oh, boy. i heard one of them say, look. they got a colored photographer. [laughter] "child, how are you?" yes, ma'am, i'm fine.

>> that was the first lady getting prepared for a commencement address to the class of virginia tech. she always prepared. she would go over her speech a dozen times before giving it. that is just going over the notes before giving the speech. >> how often worry with the first lady? -- were you with first lady? >> we had a system in our office. amanda was the first lady's photographer. pete liked us to rotate. every third week i would cover the first lady. this is one of her trips to london. her big initiative was always girls. she had just given a speech. she is known as the hugger in chief, so she hugs everybody.

>> this is the transition meeting that happens after every election. president-elect obama meeting with president bush for the first time. this was right after the election in 2008. i had to make this picture with the remote camera mounted on the mantle of the fireplace. you can see the ivy creeping in. i was trying to hide the camera. i did it more as a backup. i was standing on the other side of the coffee table. they only allowed me in the room. they really wanted to get down to business. they were looking at me like are you done yet? luckily, i had that camera as a

backup. as i was walking out, i made two frames of them talking as the door closed. luckily, one of them worked. >> we are in the mansion in the middle of the day. he's been told by a couple of overseas.f is growing if you can imagine trying twice 10 thoughts of civil boiling at the same time. the trying to decide extent. it takes a lot of strength as a understand all of the destruction that is happening from place to place. you are trying to fix it from place to place. all these pieces have to come together to make it work. then you have to pray that the people on the other side, from another country get it.

can we pull this together in the same direction? we are going to have wars. here we go. what are we going to do about this situation? it is a day by day every day. america is the police person for the world because nobody else will send people to do things to be helpful. even in natural disasters. a lot of other countries do not. not having the resources, not knowing how to do it. how do you do it starts with him. i get it. at some point, you get tired of clean frames. i was shooting stuff. i would be around the corner somewhere, leaning, getting that

one too. you wanted to be exciting photography, not boring photography. i like to shoot between stuff. >> it took me years to get this. i getting the two of them together in a situation where they have the time to do it. sitting for a portrait at camp david. i wanted to get their faces together because they look so alike. for me, for eight years, to have that as part of the story come -- part of the story, the history of his father being president. they have a very traditional relationship. his father would stop by and talk about baseball mostly. never seemed like he gave him any advice or anything. i was able to capture this portrait in 2007.

>> they were joking around before this as well, making funny faces. you won't see those. this is president bush the texan at the white house in crawford, texas. the only place he could drive his own truck. he has 1600 acres roam. this really captures his personality. he has that twinkle in his eyes. he has the iconic cowboy hat because he is really a texan at heart. texas is where he was in charge before going back to washington. as we know, the presidency follows the president everywhere.

the apparatus, all the people, the assets. there is a mini white house wherever the president goes, including the ranch. the timing of the photo is interesting. --s is one month before not this is a month before 9/11 every time i see this photo, i see his sense of innocence before the world changed. >> that is the last photo in the slideshow. [applause] >> we are going to have a q&a and there will be people with microphones on the side or over here. >> this brings us to the q&a portion of the evening. if you have a question, please raise your hand.

we are recording this, so please speak clearly into the microphone. our first question right up front. >> did you guys have much of a life while you were working? are these photos yours? >> we had no life, none of us. the photos belong to american people. this was on the taxpayer's dollar. this is your history. this is our history. i could not keep a dinner date for anything. if people invited me to do something, i could say maybe and then not show up ever. when i could show up at something, i could go home. i always showed up with something. i would say, i'm sorry i could come to this other thing, but i'm here today. so, i could go home again. some staff at the white house could never go home again. some people cannot stay in touch with their friends.

he had made a new life for themselves and d.c. i am lucky. my life is in d.c., my work is in d.c., my family is in d.c.. i have the best of all worlds. and then the best part was making new friends at the white house. the next best part was traveling across the country and calling up my college buddies and saying we are coming to town. >> my life was the president's schedule. what you learn is, you kind of in-depth following his patterns. you eat what he needs, you sleep -- you eat when he's, you sleep when he sleeps. it is really tough. it is a grind. it is more like dog years, to be honest, because a lot happens within one day. lucky for me, i am married, and i was still married at the time. but my wife worked in the white house for three of the years, so that helped me a lot. so, yes.

.> i had a life pete did a lot of heavy lifting with potus. on weekends i work sometimes but i have us -- we have a system where every third week you knew you weren't going to be working nights or weekends so every third week i would have time with my family. my kids are recognize me. front.tioned the lady andvening gentleman. his this the first time the three of you are giving this presentation? are you going to take your presentation to other cities? >> this is the first time three of us have sat on a panel together and i'm happy to do it again. [applause]

>> i'm sure you caps on another moderator. >>, the whole package. >> our next question is to the far left. >> a two-part question related to technology taking photographs. can you talk more about what it was like to transition from film to digital and what that did to your timeline? your flow and your process. maybe to the three of you, do you -- are you ever concerned ,bout wearable cameras perpetual presence of cameras taking future photographer jobs away in your current role. -- in your role? beingt of the deal about

a photographer is to do the best job. you need to worry about doing your job and if you do your job good you will be there. if you start messing up, or maybe not. the more cameras, i think it is better. at some point you can't have a camera. and i forget my camera, i'm dying. camera on mymy body i would not use my phone camera. >> is not a camera. i wouldn't use it. >> i broke my camera when i came out here. i'm still sad about it. and i've seen some pictures and i brought my cell phone up going, i should have got my camera before i left. when i go home tomorrow, what am i going to do? i'm going to be at the camera shop. the computer thing with the cameras, we had a lab out of andrews air force base and the lab would do our processing.

make our proof sheets. they come three or four times a day in a truck with a metal case, official military people coming in and get our stuff. we marked our bags with what the date is. four or five hours later, crew chief would come back. we start going to the computer and communications people decided we will get you these other cameras and get the pictures sooner. we got our hands full, but ok. now we have a camera that weighs more than two of our cameras around her neck, and is not a full frame camera so you can't see the nuance of what you are shooting. it was frustrating. what was more frustrating was having time to think. the first think about looking at proof sheets, you can't think while you are looking. the computer screen, you're like, what? it's not in focus? oh, that's the screen. oh, i don't need these kinds of heart attacks. oh, no.

by the time we left, we were switching over. they literally put everything on discs. the coding wasn't good. you know how you figure out the silver or gold coating? it didn't hang, it didn't stay. now i have to go to another company to do it again. i don't like doing stuff twice and we're running out of time as we are getting out of the office, too. i told the lab don't make anything that is turning our stuff from negatives into discs. but now the computer, i'm a computer geek i guess, kinda. i'm still reluctant. >> well, after sharon left office, we -- i used the film

process, you know the lab, and it was during my time that the transition happened. that directed the white house from film to digital. and that was a huge job because of the volume that happened in the white house. you all know thousands of photos a day with the whole staff to design a workflow and a system to handle the digital files and unfortunately, we had to decommission the lab and bring a lot of those positions internal inside the white house. and then also using digital

cameras was another change for me, which was a turnoff because, i'm mean i love using the galactic camera, that was the best tool for me in the white house. all the stuff on 9/11 was a leica. and then switching to the digital camera, that was bulky, heavy, and noisy. i had to change my style of shooting because of the noise. unfortunately, the digital cameras were not quiet when they first came out. the first full frame camera canon came out with, that was when i decided to make the switch. it was a struggle, but it was something that had to be done in terms of keeping up with the technology and also it was where everything was headed. luckily i had the experience coming from the associated press, using digital photography and applying my skills to turn the white house into digital. >> i'll just say you're talking about wearable technology and how things are changing, technology has been changing forever. you can put a camera in someone's hand who is not a

photographer and its crap. but if you put someone's hands that is counted, you will get something compelling. i would love to get back in the white house now. they would never know. >> thanks for your wonderful presentation. are any of you in contact with current white house photographers? and what do they say what the heck is going on? [laughter] >> what do you mean, what do they say? craig is a good friend of ours. she's the chief photographer and she does a good job. she's just doing her job. [laughter] i mean, honestly. [laughter] >> i couldn't tell you. >> we talked a little bit about this before the event. i had asked you about this, lawrence, about how this style of photography is so different.

she's just doing her job. that's obviously what the president wants. i would be curious to see what you all think. your photography feels journalistic. the photos coming from the white house, they're not as candid. >> they're posed. >> they're posed. they seem to show the president with a figure of authority. they are not communicating the same presidency at work, at life, as your work does. >> this is why pictures are still worth a thousand words. and she's going to be all right. she's just got to work it out. it takes time. everybody is not the same kind of subject when they become president of the united states and it takes time to flesh it out. as people get more comfortable about who they are working with, i was scared for more than a year.

i wouldn't say anything. one day mrs. clinton says, she speaks. [laughter] >> because i still piss myself every day i came in that place. where am i going? and i hanging out with the girls and the guys? going to work? oh, boy. when you realize the magnitude of what you overcome as a kid and your parents have been wonderfully helpful and pushed you to do the things that are all correct. and here you are here trying to run the world in a good way and you're like ain't the way to run the world. but i'm from the southeast. you look at somebody who reads mad magazine, ok? [laughter] comic books. i need another way of looking at things. the more information about better. give the other photographer a chance.

we don't get to go out like we did before. she's busy. girl, that hasn't happened yet. >> i'm sorry. understand that the pictures they're showing, releasing, you're not seeing all the pictures they are taking. this is what they are pushing for. >> that was what i was going to say. we don't know what going on inside. she may have amazing images sitting in the archives waiting to be shown at some point. and we may see those when everything is over. we just don't know. time will tell. >> our next question is at the center right. >> thank you all for being here. i loved what you said about studying these men as presidents. we were implicitly talking about this, but if you could synthesize what you learned about each of these presidents

and who they are as people as you are photographing them. >> great question. you know, you learn a lot. you learn about leadership, especially in a time of crisis. you learn that, about discipline, and president bush was very disciplined. he, like i said, schedule was very tight. he made sure he put exercise in his schedule every day. it was very important to him. and if anything creeped into that time, he was very very upset. i learned that everyone looked up to the president for leadership.

and he did a great job of leading our country through some really tough times. >> chair? >> what can i say? my guy. [laughter] my guy. >> for me, watching president obama, it was always a lesson because he was so compassionate with people. and he gave himself to a lot of people. when people met him, i saw it a thousand times, they were skeptical of him. but once they met him and talks to him, they felt like they were being listened to and heard and came away with a positive impression of them. so just how to treat people with respect and kindness. >> president clinton was late all the time. [laughter] because he talked to everybody. and even if they put up barriers to direct him how to get to the line quickly, he'd lose the barrier and step over it. they would say, we're 15 minutes behind, 30 minutes behind, 45

minutes behind, and this guy is doing his thing. keep moving, keep moving. what you say? he disagreed because of what? if you disagreed with them, he wants to really understand why. he talks a lot. miss clinton turned into a talker when she started running for office, too. he finished his line, she hadn't finished hers. when you meet people, you have to take the time with them. there's a ton of us that blow people off as we think they're not important. each and everyone of us are important and for the president of the united states to talk to you, he's telling you you're all important and i want to know what you are thinking. and if you disagree, i really want to know why. i'm hearing him give scenarios

and listen to people give scenarios back. unbelievable. >> we have a question to the center-right. >> thanks so much for being here today. i think lawrence is shaking his head because i'm his niece. [laughter] just hearing each of you talk about your experience in the white house, it was a highlight of your career is an understatement. i'm curious about how you went about thinking of what your step -- next step was and what you want to see out of your next role and if he could match how meaningful and significant your job in the white house was. >> after leaving the white house? >> yes, after leaving the white house. >> it's a tough act to follow. we talked about this. for me personally, i still want to take pictures. it's what i've always done and what i love to do. if i'm taking pictures of a college basketball game or corporate event, i'm happy

taking pictures. is not at the level of covering president obama, but it's still real emotions and still doing some nice work for organizations. but there are real emotions and moments in that, and i enjoy that. >> everything's a letdown. no. [laughter] just like lawrence said, it really is tough to experience the same level of intensity and importance and travel and it's one of those things, too, once it's over it's over. it's like cinderella, the clock strikes midnight and you are behind the gate and you can't get in anymore.

your life starts over. its almost like leaving high school. and like lawrence said, i've always been a photographer and i will continue to work on stories and i love politics, and i will continue to do what i've always loved do no matter what the story is. and so, yeah. >> i'm lucky. i got great, wonderful clients around d.c. a lot of them are nonprofits. whatever the mission is that nonprofits. whatever the mission is that they are doing, that's who i want to do my work with. i'm a part of a group of 40 plus photographers called the exposure group, and we meet once a month doing the art and business of photography so we can keep the next generation coming. pictures is a wonderful way to make a living, be an editor, of

processing computer was, all this stuff leads to other stuff. and its creative. photography stays creative. that's my joy. the other thing is, i keep meeting new people. i do not stay home. i don't watch tv. people on my juice. everybody brings something. you let me shoot it, i'm telling you a story because you let me, and i get to meet new people. is just a wonderful way for me to live my life. i still play music. i still mess around, goof around. i'm still with my neighbors, my friends. i'm lucky. i've got everything one could want after doing the white house. steady money coming in, happy life. pets who love me. it's about love in the house. so and then the neighbors, what

can i say? welcome people to the hood. when i lived over there, nobody wanted to live over there. now everybody wants to live over there. [laughter] >> our next question is in the far back center. >> hey, so, you both being photojournalists with the associated press and then moving into a white house position, there's a little inside baseball. sorry, i'm l.a. times photographer so i can ask. and i worked in d.c. with all these guys, so. there's a little bit of controversy within the journalism world, with the idea of access to media photographers covering the white house. having done it, it's a tight space. did you have a role in any of those? i don't know if you have any controversies with obama were

there were more photos handed out, and it lawrence, i'm actually curious about what his role was in having control. talk about that a little bit. is a multipronged question. about the humanizing when you are shooting your subject, the president, in that humanizing them. it may not be your objective while you are shooting but clearly, when the photo is released, its publicity. so we know it there's some role that medication office place. but as a photographer, where you were a photojournalist, you're doing news, these are the photos. when you were at the white house

in doing these photos, do you have any input? the you say i have great shots of them smiling? how does that go in your daily job? >> bob mcneilly, less his heart. communications people muck it up. that's what happens. you trust the eye of the person you hire to do the job. bob trusted us. he knew what we could do. and we knew what we could do. you talk about confidence about what we could get done. she could shoot like crazy, get stuff done, tell stories. she was a heroine to me in the photography world. it was how the other people act around you, you have to make

sure you don't act like them. you have to keep yourself grounded. look in the mirror and go, in my doing the right thing? and let people make fun of you so you know you're grounded. if they're messing with you, you're human. >> good question. in my time with digital photography becoming so prevalent, and the internet exploding, 24 hour cable, and the demand for images became great, where my office was always being hounded for images, and i was always a part of the process in terms of generating selections for photos to be released. and they would decide on photos. sometimes i would argue with them that i thought some photos were better than others, but they would look at them with different eyes.

sometimes it's with overly political eyes. that's just the nature of the business. and i see where you're getting at in terms of photo releases and what it meant for access with the other photographers, media photographers, and we received the same criticism because we released more photos in the clinton administration, and i'm sure the obama administration released more photos than us. but that doesn't necessarily equal less openness in terms of allowing photographers to come in. but we received the same criticism. but it's just the nature of the time. just like the evolution of the white house, everyone expects the next administration to do just the same thing.

but they are not. that is what everyone is surprised or they are different. everyone has a different mindset and use the technology differently. i don't know if that answers your question. >> pretty much what eric said, but i'll just add a little bit. the explosion of social media during the obama administration, the pictures fed so much of that to social media. you had facebook, you had flickr, instagram. all that stuff needed content and that content was produced by photographers in the photo office. in terms of access to the media, i really think that the communications office realized they could reach their target audience by going around newspapers for magazines and going directly to. and that was a choice.

you had the first president do an interview between two ferns. [laughter] that was hugely, hugely popular and successful. i used to be ap, eric used to be ap. you know the power of newspapers. at that time, there were just going another direction. i don't think pete was opposed to it but i don't have that much say in terms of who was going to cover the president. >> we were a little bit more flexible. we would bring in a newsweek photographer or time magazine for a day or so, or somebody from the new york times which would shadow one of the photographers. you could take pictures of anything you want to. diane from time magazine, diane walker, she'd come. when you do suffer like that, they know the rules.

when we tell you you've got to go because stuff is getting sensitive it got the girl. part of a deal about being with the white house photographer needed to see what we see when when we say it's time to go you got to go. you have a large pool of photographers. because of our call money issues for these companies that do the publishing and all that stuff they'll have shareholders. more aware shareholders and content. cruise -- washed some cruise call five or six from each outline.

now they pool their cameras. wherever they should their tape, everybody shares the same thing. they began to lose their work working for washington post or newsweek or the wire services because they were not giving the access. when i was working at associated press, i was a photo editor. we saw everything. that you find out some people are not allowed to shoot some stuff. i'm getting a phone call saying, now you're telling me where to put my cameras up to our eyes. excuse me? they're telling you what? they are telling us to leave our cameras on the ground until we can put them up. keep talking, negotiate. what do i do? i said if you take a picture, i'll be happy. to take a picture no matter what. well, ok. people took pictures anyway. starts a fight between the press handlers and the press try to cover the president.

people from the press office trying to tell people when to be creative. you know that ain't right. [laughter] >> one last question to the far right in the front. >> thank you very much. i was very interested in the photo that eric, you took with president bush and president-elect obama with the remote control, and i was curious what the rules of the game are with that if any. can you shoot remote anywhere? it's one thing you are in the room if they know you are in the room. and as technology changes, maybe more so with you lawrence, if you had similar advances the technology that lets you shoot more remote, more hidden, in a sense that they didn't know you were there. so i'm curious about the advanced preparation that thinks about i'm going to put it here above the fireplace and what security issues may be involved, as well.

>> in that situation, i asked president bush if i could put a camera above the mantle. actually, i didn't ask. the true story was -- [laughter] i asked the staff and they were like, yeah, go ahead. [laughter] so i showed up at 5:00 in the morning and i put it there, but i had to get the president's blessing. he walks in at 7:00 in the morning, he looks up and goes, what the hell is that? they all look at me. i said that's for your meeting with the president-elect. it takes about it for a second and goes, let's make sure we clear it with the president-elect because we don't want him to think we are trying to spy on him. but yeah, it was all his blessing for me to do that. or else it wouldn't be there.

>> so you said what the rules are, in the rules are if the president approves it, that's the rule? >> yeah. [laughter] >> nobody can bother you if it's ok for them. -- when it is ok with him. >> that's all the time we have tonight so please give our speakers and moderator a round of applause. [applause] and this is not a canned question at all but lawrence, where can people find you? >> on instagram? >> yes. >> jack images. >> perfect. and eric? >> photog. >> sharon? >> sfphotoworks@att.net. >> jamel? >> i do have an instagram, actually.

>> thank you everyone for coming out. [applause] make sure you get your parking validated if you haven't already done so at the front desk. have a good evening. >> good job. >> that went really well. >> thank you. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> this weekend on american history tv on c-span3. eastern,t 8:00 p.m. the reconstruction era after the civil war. america, a reel silent french frail dedicated to america's efforts in world war i. -- national world war ii

marking the 20th anniversary of the film saving private ryan. the u.s. army heritage and education center and a living history featuring french world war i soldiers. watch american history tv this weekend on c-span3. daily.istory unfolds in 1979, c-span was created as a public service by america's cable television companies. today we continued to bring you unfiltered coverage of congress, the white house, the supreme court in public policy events and washington dc and around the country. c-span is brought to you by your cable assembly provider. the c-span buses traveling across the country on our 50

capitals tour. the bus stop in anchorage, alaska asking folks what is the most important issue in alaska. >> one of the most important cares is access to health especially in rural alaska and the cost of health care is extremely high. >> the most important issue for isska from my perspective job creation. the university of alaska has done remarkably in terms of looking at collaborations and linking them aligning resources to support our businesses and communities. >> the most important thing in alaska right now his tourist season. we have millions of tourists to come to alaska every year. ship, some ofse them fire. many come to see denali national park.

we only get a few cruise ships a year so we are working on trying to improve our port so we can get more ships coming here. >> while the most important issues in alaska right now is the need for us to begin to convert our energy sources to something more sustainable. when i think about that i notice at uaa, are diesel technology program has begun working with people in some of the villages to try to figure out what we can do to prepare for the future. where a state that depends a lot on oil. that will be true for long time. making the most effective use of resources is important and along at universitye like ours we can train people for those jobs for the future. >> join us july 21 and 20 secondary feature our visit to alaska.

alaska weekend on c-span. or listen on the c-span radio app. next, we hear from a panel of experts about the design history of the white house and what , changes, if any, the future may hold. the panel includes people from the united kingdom, as well as historians. this was part of a daylong symposium hosted by the white house historical association and focused on the history of british and irish connections with the white house. it's an hour. >> thank you all very much for sticking it out for all of this, and i want you to know this is he and i want you to know this is now your chance to ask the questions of the scholars of the experts. and i want to say that i have no background whatsoever in history or scholarship.