clayton, helen bentley and barbara kennelly and len woolsey, oral histories sunday at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span3. in 1998, the academy award winning world war ii film saving private ryan was released in theaters. the movie portrayed the 1944 d-day invasion of norman day and mission to find a soldier behind enemy lines. next on american history tv, to mark the 20th anniversary of the film's release, historians explore and contrast other d-day films and talk about the director's process of creating them. this runs 1 hour, 40 minutes. >> we are here today because 20 years ago, an amazing film about the second world war came to the screen and i think that all of

us can agree this has to be one of the top world war ii movies ever made, fascinating, compelling, powerful, realistic, riveti riveting, an amazing film. here we are one day after the 74th anniversary of d-day to talk about that wonderful film "saving private ryan" that really captured the horrible events, the necessary but horrible events on the beaches of normandy on 6 june 1944. the film changed the way the nation looked at the war movie. we began to rethink the way we thought about our world war ii veterans and began to rethink the way we thought about ourselves as a nation and certainly as citizens thought about the cost of war in a very powerful way as a result of this film. we're going to approach the film today, we have four really exciting sessions,ener all going to be a little bit different. all addressing the film in different ways. the first panel is going to be from two wonderful film

historians, dr. marshall gordon of north carolina state university and nick kul, both good friends of the museum and we're so glad to have them here again today. the next panel will be dr. kevin farrell, retired as a united states army colonel and our own dr. rob satino, the senior historian of the institute and museum. after lunch we'll sit down and see captain dale dye who served as the military adviser on the film. and to finish the day, the cleanup hitter and well up to the job, is our own founding president and ceo dr. nick mueller who will talk about what the film has met to the country, this museum and the overall lasting legacy still being felt today. also encourage you to keep your eyes out for another thing that will be coming out in the next year. which is nick is hard at work on a great book about the d-day landings from the perspective of our oral history collection. it's really a gang busters book.

i've been lucky enough to see early chapters really powerful. in addition to this, we know that you the audience will continue as you are be a great part of the conversation and drive the discussions in good ways with your great questions and comments. onto the programs now, i don't want to drone on addressing these people. all of these speakers have amazing resumes and we could waste half of the day talking about accomplishments, instead i would encourage you to look at your programs and then again they are here with you throughout the day, engage our speakers, they are ready for it and looking forward to talking with you. our first speaker dr. marsha gord gordon, north carolina state is the author of film is like a battlegrounds, sam fuller's war movies and will be followed by nickco who in this caaddition t serving in northern california is the director of the master of public diplomacy program as well

as president of the international association of media and history which is a good friend and partner organization of our own institute. first to present, first welcome marsha gordon. [ applause ] >> okay, good morning, everybody. thank you so much for having me here today. it is truly an honor. i've been asked to speak to you about sam fuller and his war films and especially about the big red one has a d-day landing scene pertinent to today's discussion. i published this book with oxford university press last year that's up on the screen. and i'll talk a little bit about that in the course of my discussion today but it's focused on all fuller's both hot and cold war films that he made over the course of his career

and as a hollywood historian, i've been working on this project for a really long time and it's wonderful to see it out. i'm going to draw from a couple of things i just want to mention. first of all, how many have seen a sam fuller before? a lot of you, good. he published -- his widow published a posthumously his memoir called a third face, it's absolutely wonderful if you're a fuller fan. i would encourage you to read it. also his daughter samantha fuller is a film maker and she did a documentary a number of years ago called a fuller life sthas extraordinary and she is working on organized insanity, which is the phrase that fuller used to describe war and that's going to be based on all of his personal war films that he took during the war on 16 millimeter. look for that. so very quick overview, fuller grew up in new york city in the

1920s and worked as a newspaper copy boy and journalist in the 30s then started selling novels and screenplays to hollywood in the late 1930s at which point he moved to los angeles and worked as a screen writer. when world war ii broke out he enlisted and served with the first infantry division, his beloved big red one for three years during the war. after the war returned to hollywood, that is when he started to direct his own films in the late 1940s. and this is just a partial filmography starting with first film but the films that are in the second half of the list are the ones that i discussed in the book and three in red are related to world war ii in some way. i also will be showing you some images that are from fuller's personal collection. chris ta and samantha, his widow and his daughter have all of his papers and photographs and

letters and war journals in their possession still and kind enough to give me full access to those. that image at the top there is actually from a barbara stanwick western, 40 guns. you can see the big red one patch insignia, always inserted a reference to the first, even if the film had absolutely nothing to do with war. and that film -- the frame below is from one of my favorite fuller films, pickup on south street. then of course you see the soldier standing between them. the war is the thing that defined his life and it's the thing he cared about most and kind of thinking about over the course of his career. so a few things more about his military service, he was inducted into the army as a private on august 24th, 1942 in los angeles and after basic training he was deployed to north africa with k company, 26 infantry and closed the war as a

rifleman an corporal with a 16th infantry and always identified with the 16th. fuller later explained he joined the 16th infantry by order than george taylor and this is a quote from fuller who wanted a rifleman what could write and report for the history books. eyewitness accounts of attacks and counter attacks. this came out after the war and you can see corporal sammy fuller gets a by line i'm pointing to that screen even though you are looking this way because the screens are behind me. and so fuller contributed heavily to this kind of history of the 16th. he participated fuller did in the battles kbans for central europe, normandy, cicely and tunisia, earning a bronze star, good conduct metal and silver star and bronze arrowhead along the way. and this is a letter from major

john lawsuuton, praising his ga ant tri and action during one of the initial assault ways in d-day. and this is from the personal collection, this is framed and on the wall at the fuller house hltd which is why it's not a very good image because i could just take a photograph of it. fuller was wounded in action at normandy on june 8th. two days ach the landing actually. in germany on september 14th, 1944, after a post day trip to france to visit his brother stationed there, fuller returned to the united states on september 28th, 1945. so during the nearly three years of combat and front line observation, fuller kept war time diaries filled with illustrations and cartoons that are absolutely fascinating and he also wrote a lot of letters home. he had a wicked sense of humor as you can tell from this cartoon that he -- that he sent home during the war.

he kept notes about what was happening, kind of story material for his future projects and all kind of in preparation for thinking about how he would use this over the course of his career. these are some examples of females sent to his mother and to his brother who often had often with cartoons and requests for cigars, which he loved. and in that march of 1944, fuller grocery underestimated he gathered material to keep him busy for six months to a year after the war. in fact, fuller would go to these journals and letters and pull material out and use them in the films over the course of his entire career and this is a photo of fuller that he sent to his brother. i just wanted to read this little excerpt from a third face, his memoir. it's important to what he's

talking about today. people who never lived through it, will never ever know what war's unfeelingness feels like and the cold taste of metal in your mouth just before the violence begins, the wet toes and churning in your stomach that seems like it's going to burn a hole in your belly, the dull drumming in your brain and ghoulish visions come to life, words just can't describe it. fuller despite this spent the entire life trying to figure out how words and images could come as close as you could get to describing it and he always saw that as a flawed endeavor but incredibly important. so unonto the big red one which is a key and acknowledged precedent for what spielberg does in his masterful d-day landing scene in particular in saving private ryan. this film came out in 1980. but fuller tried to make this film since the 1940s. it took him his -- the bulk of

his career to get this film made and this is a letter from 1946 that i've excerpted to the milestone all quiet on the western front, the wonderful world war i film. some day there will be an all quiet and i'll be my best to be the doggy who liked to write it. a very adoring way. so this is a letter that he wrote kind of a fan letter to milestone about the film. and so this is kind of first reference i found to him talking about making this film. and this is definitely the film that fuller wanted to make more than any other. this is reported in 1956 by heda hopper and john wayne is going to be starring in sam fuller's the big red one and this is what it's going to be about. obviously this didn't happen in 1956 but hopper was a friend of fuller's and i want to read a little excerpt from a letter that fuller wrote to her on june 11th, note that date, 1954.

darling heda, we just returned from normandy, it was quite a sensation going back to omaha beach. standing on the same beach ten years to the minute after my outfit made the initial the big thrill was when i took marta to the first objective ten years ago. we lost 160000 men this morning. i took marta in the school house where we had chased the enemy officers. she was horrified going through the gutting structures. this is one of dozens of times that fuller tried to return to the place and revisit his experiences there. these are a couple of images,

one a polaroid on the back of omha beach and a small camera that has no sound that he was using for location executing. and the other is a 16 meter home movie and that is fuller scaling something at norandy. marta fuller wrote a letter to the publicist about the trip in july of 1954. i do know we went to normandy on d- day. you will see the film sammy managed to take and tells the story far better than anything on tape or at the moment. i will tell you it was rough. i dreaded the return for sammy to death revisited knowing it would take a lot out of him.

i am sure he will remember 1954 and than 1944. it is still better than his memory of 1944. that 1954 image never replaced the 1944 image. and by the late 1950s, warner brothers hired him to do a script, and paid him to go on another location scouting trip back to europe. you can see him planning to use a replica of normandy beach and a stand in for other european locations for the beach landing scene. none came to fruition and

according to fuller many years later, they said to him, if you write the [bleep] script i will produce it and that is how it happened. and fuller started to make one in 1978. that was president biggest budget. that and incredibly expense itch. and that is a lifelong passion project. it is four and half-hours. no one will sit for this. and they went away from him and without consulting which was the heart break of his life. and so the film that he saw in 1980, he saw less than half of what fuller hoped to be.

and some of you in 2005 reconstruction of the film. it is worth seeing. it is an infantry combat and unnamed sergeant played by lee marvin and all of them who survived the war. i didn't want an overview and no drilling and flash back and no girlfriends and none of that [bleep] and that is fuller's words and not mine. that is a real war movie you understand. and you watch them learn to salute for three months. i tried to put the war experience on film and i came close. to make a real war movie.

and during the battle scene. and how can you ever convey what it would be like to be at war. it is a brilliant war. and even when it is realistic as possible. >> and that is the midpoint of the film. and that is a nugget of that trauma. and that is a precedent setting. and that is ambitious. and there is a lot of times. and that is a release version. and that is a winding or big view of d- day.

there is a big objective. and that is on the beach. and the scene on the water and discussing the landing and predicting that there is a lot of detriment on the beach. it is what we know is not the case. and that is intensity of incoming shells. that is in 1998 saving private ryan scene. and that is what i read an except for the italian beach landing in the journal and he switches from taking about this is eye saw that.

my tobacco. and the crouch. and that is standing next to sergeant ride out. and that is on the leg and reaches down. is it was shot by the head. and fuller's narration reminds me of certain traumas and the way he deals with them and a blunt representation of death and injury and saving provide ryan. and that is a textbook and present and in cinematic form.

when you look at the images. and that is men on the squadron. and that is a example of one of the more ambitious shots. that is no where near the other scale. and the soldiers try to do by german fire. they watch anxiously from a protected spot on the beach. fuller gave her a pause and takes us away from the more realistic situation. and you don't see a single image

of the enemy in the d- day where in the longest day of saving private ryan you look at their pefr spective and there is a banger objective and not the focus of the sequence. and that is a good friend and ally and supporter of fuller. i can keep protected in many ways. fuller worked with fox for a while. and based on a historical connection. and it is worth mentioning and he was an admirer and useful and strange in the 1979 quest for harbor bombing. and 1941 and i don't know how many of you saw that one. soldier after soldier make his way up the beach and not in the

protected area which is unlike the scene in saving private ryan. they would tell me if that would have happened or not. mark hammil who is pictured up top came face to face with a dead soldier and came stunned that they had to fire the rifle. and the sergeant firing around him and get him out of his friend's state and series of extreme closeups between the two of them. it was taken out by incoming enemy fire and manages to recover and puts a piece of bang lower in place and allows them to put a hole in the wire and gives them a sense of closure.

he landed with an initial waive. and bring about a degree of control that he, he also commenced for notifying command of the breach and that meant that fuller had to leave 100 yards of open beach under constant heavy fire. and voluntarily returning to communicate the message and a section of the wires now open. in the construction it was not relief. and that is a fuller standing and that is played by robert caradine. and that is a dangerous. and that is a couple of images. and that is that is on the body of a fellow soldier. it is the representation of the

graphic and an important building block. and that is especially poetic. and that is on his soldier's arm. it is increasingly bloody. and signals both the duration battle and escalating carnage. and the longest day. and that is a lot in the film. and fuller is vibrantly bleed. and part of the passage. and that will be for spielberg that makes impactful use of the color red in the landing scene and also the kind of grass

representations of death. and that is the injury for the film. there is a short and important speech and i expect many of them will be familiar with the speech that is delivered to them on the beach. and they delivered the message to the cornell and the colonel stands and declares there are two kinds of men. and those who are dead and those who are about to die. let's get off of the [bleep] beach and die inland. in the memior and third phase and published the version of the big one. and fuller repeats versions of the speech and credits them to colonel george taylor in omaha. and he had sergeant zach.

it is an excellent film. and steel helmet and he's rem nizing fondly about world war ii. and he felt it was lacking in courage and even more interesting and signaturive that fuller had on the buddy. that is a version of the speech this time played by robert mitchum. and does a version of this as well. and that is ark to the longest day. and big of the one for saving private ryan. and that is on the landing scene and they note the power to returning to character. and that d- day landing with saving private ryan and that is

different than others that filmed. and that is showing a strong picture. that is surprise dust by enemy fire and even getting in the water. and that is torn apart and burned by enemy fire and had he lived to see it. he would be envious of it. and he died before saving private ryan was released and he didn't see it. spiel burg was master full in creating the character. and that character bobs up and down and we are in the water with the soldiers and simulation style. and thank you for much. thank you very much.

>> thank you, good morning. and i have a presentation and keep the slide up, that's fine. my presentation is about the longest day. and looking at what they prepared and it occurred to me it was a parallel to saving private line. and that is carol of d- day. and in the case for d- day. and ryan is corneluous ryan and that is journalist who that is a motion picture and that will be through my remarks to cover

something that is a strength and that bulk and use it in a fix point and for me, the point of thinking about the history of the film is not to use it as a way to understand the moment that they depict. and i am not trying to understand 1944 but rather the moment it was made. that is 1998. and that is six point of the source material. and that is changed in order to suit the needs of the time in which the film was made and a number of points in my remark and what i will do and using cornieluous rhyme's text for the

sixth point and see what was it that they kept. and what did they change and sometimes tiny details have changed and try to get when it was altered. >> and cornieluous ryan. and how are you doing. i am sure you have seen the longest day. how many of you read the book. & the bridge too far and the lost body. and heap was originally he was born in ireland in 1920. and that was neutral. and he didn't have to be involved. and a young journalist and he

took a job from the daily telegraph. and he didn't have an obligation from the armed forces. and he flew a number of missions reporting from the skies overgermany. and his training was not for the full academic training. and that is for dublin. and that is in the university and anything. and that is the hard way and through experience. and he was involved. and he only needed to do it after d- day. and that is to the end of the war, he joined time magazine and he became a bureau chief for

him. it is a war of independence in israel. and that is the experience and need for creating historical account of a warning to bring in multiple perspectives and no one perspective could capture the whole thing and he grew up in island and starting to read irish history. and that is the question of history from this point of view. and from my point of view. as a historian. and one of his great contributions is to assist in

having multiple perspective and emphasize with all of the people even the so- called bad guys. >> in the 1950s. he worked for the magazine and working in longer form journal. and did well with the treatment. and in the ocean liner sinking. and that is adapted in a book. and disaster struck because the collier magazine went bust and he lost the meal ticket. he revisited normandy and he became interested in writing a full-scale treatment of what happened there. and the question he asked. when he was looking down on to the beach. from the atlantic wall and

placement. what connected the germans who were here to defend and the allies that were here to attack. what was it that connected him. he came to the conclusion for the cable and it was fear. and he wanted to explore what it felt like to be in that situation. and that is a historical turning point. and that is a massive one day. and that is planned to be released on the anniversary of d- day. 1959. and touting the proposal. and the moment and the reader's

digest. that is the whole thing. and that is a first move. placing an advertisement. and it was a contact. and he repeated the exercise from britain. and germany. and that is a veteran. and that is the questionnaire to hone in on the people. and a lot of the them going through the regiment. and a pinpoint the time and place that different things had happened. and the book came out in 1959 and it is a enormous best seller. and that is on the way up.

and election day. and the news is coming up. and heap's incredibly careful with the recruiting. and that is mr. president. and he fement angry. and i won't feel hungry. and that is typical. and that is why he got it absolutely right. and got it scared away. and he collides with a hollywood producer. darril zannic who is on the way down and been there for a long

time and credited to go 1920s. zanec. and that is working with the army. and that changed people's attitudes. and that collides. and a scholar. and that is involved in international affairs and he believed as a film maker. and that emphasizes the values. he's looking like that. and that is allies working to be

a better place. he sees d- day. and tell a story and also a surefire box office success to divide the fortunes. which is 20th century fox. >> and he buys the rights for the longest day. and sets it about getting the film made. >> and there are i think three key decisions in creating the longest day. and the first to allow contributing countries to the story. and own film directors to develop the relevant sequences. and that is the german sequences. he was an excommunist and jailed by the nazis and fought in the german army as an occupier in france and come to prominence

with a german debruker about a small group of boys who defended the bridge from the americans that came out in 1959. the film maker who worked with documentaries of world war ii and the u.s. scenes external drenthor by andrew martin who was a second unit are director. and that is a professional reputation. and that is one of the first cost. and that is turning the film in a collective effect of remembrance. and suddenly it seems like hollywood is remembering world war ii by having the stars pop up. it comes on for two minute and says the line and i am told that no actor worked longer than four days of the longest day and

people are rotating in and out. and some doing it as volunteers. and that is for the people. and it was used before. and greatest story i have told andios. and also the and that is selecting. and people from the french movies. and that is a parody. and the film working with them and for americans. and casting john wayne. and that is who would have been and that is john wayne.

and there has to be a reason why john wayne was cast. and that is seeking to cast young actors taking a role in the enlisted man. that is a team star and plays one of the rangers. and that is all of these people who had great meeting and out of the team culture from the 1950s. it was moving and marketing the film and making it relevant to young people. it is about building a generational recognition. and that is teams of the 1950s are led by the father figures of the 1940s and even in the longest day, it is about

connecting to the authority of the father who you can trust. in the choices of which bits of the story are told, there is a emphasis on the american leaders and the courage they show exposing themselves under fire. and how we have confidence in the generation going forward. they use veteran and multitude of advisors and amazing things they did was to bebuild the blighters that didn't exist anymore and use them for the landing sequences. there is a lot of splaul stories brought together. some of them quirky and some sad

to create a collective mood. i think it is particularly interesting in the way it focuses on soldier's superstitions and the stories don't just tell shell themselves. and that is the roll of error and random desk. and it was a pop management and hitler. and shown to be a sleep and unable to respond. and insistent that the real invasion will take part.

it is interestingly done. and that is in the film that is yours. and the only two aircraft are available and straight from the allies. and air force cornell and that is on the beach. and that is that is a report. and someone attempt to fly and repeal the invasion.

the violence was so sanitized and did as much as it could. and the producer's build and that is pca. and that is department of defense. and that is refused and what they do cut out. and cut down on the american parachutist that are revealed. and that is how many.

and that is a kit. and that is removed. and canadians. and announced two days early and luckily no one noticed. and that is in the film. and that is cutting out. and that is cut out for ordinary german and small groups of germans are introduced and placed under fire and one scene.

and that is cut out. and that is a french resistance character. and that is -- and that is that is a female. and why do they have a female lead. and that is said every day at four scomplok the perspective star let. and in hollywood for the casting couch. and that is a hollywood sexual predator. and he was casting in france for

the longest day. and that is a big part. and that is a historical ride and d- day and that is brought in the build up before and way of introducing the french resistance. they looked at the marketing of the longest day. and placed great emphasis on the scale of the film and how much money has been spent. and on the stars.

eisenhower had the men and planes. it is a advance. and that is how it is staged for the day. it is an educational way. and that is deception that used for longest day. and that is stereotypes in the longest day. and how does it compare to other

movies. >> and thus saving private ryan and part of the marketing of the longest day was the actors that are involved had gone through training and admired by the veterans on the set. and the film was a great success. and that is a lot of money. and it was part of america's collective memory. and that is stephen ambros recalled that he just gave up on talking about d- day and talking about the longest day. and he was introducing it.

and that is continuing. is and the fall of berlin and book of allied defeat. he died of cancer in 1974. and solved the rights to the last battle and the rights to a bridge that was made. and that is in 1976. and that is perspective. and kind much anticipating the

disaster movie. and that is in for the in a number of classic patterns. and this is burned by tora tora tora. and that is in the box office. and it is watched and replayed on tv as a way of recalling d- day. the youngest stars are forgotten. and at the time someone like

paul archingor. it looks like it is what it was. he did. and somehow they have certain anonimitty they didn't have at the time. and it is amazing how the ideas of acting have changed and realism looks like have changed and it looks like the emphasis of hollywood have changed here. and i think that the biggest change is in the representation of the enemy and in the way 1962 was necessary because the germans were the allies of the west to talk about germany in a compassionate way and make an attempt to understand the german position. and comparing that to saving private ryan. they have more in common with lord of the rings than the germans that you see in the

longest day. it is important in the longest days and french and british in the telling of the story. and that isus. and there is no attempt to talk about it. and how hard it is. and saving private ryan was serving other needs that the united states had in the mid-90s. it was more about going alone. and to me, the longest day looks outward and forward and saving private ryan looks back ward and

inward and they are valid directions to look and they have consequences. the u.s. needed to remember cooperation and assert the wisdom of the father and find a way of taming young people going forward in the 1960s and needed to reconcile with germany. and the approach of implying the understanding of germany. and people will go back to his perspective and have the multiperspective.

and to me. to anticipate the question and to be honest, it is the one in my head when i am reading the longest day. that has everything and the color and realism and i find it terribly moving. thank you for your attention. i look forward to a discussion. i will wonder the floor to serve as a moderator from the floor. and before we get to rick with a question in the front, there is a question on line. it is from nick. the longest day. and those are all darril zannic pims and you could very this specifically for nick.

you said something about what realism looks like and i agreement it is very, very interesting. and that is obviously a matter of the technology partly and also really kind of refining what it would sound like to be a part of this.

>> no, that is a very good point. each generation has a different thing it emphasizes in terms of realism. and we also as viewers. we become more a sewned. and i don't know if you had the experience of watching jurassic park. and that is no longer convinced. and that projection in the longest day seems incredibly obvious and unconvincing.

and can you fwaukt german actors. yes, the first thing to say that critics were decided and some thought it was stagy and corny and ironically they complained about an incident that was a real incident and what they disliked was with history and not the motion picture. in terms of the germans. yes, a number of the veterans in world war ii. and they were kind to the french and they were waiting to find out if they were shot or not. he was trained as a cloud and do

the clown routine. and they remember the kind german that tried to cheer them up while they were waiting. and the german actor that plays the man who looks through the binocullar. and he sees the ships coming over and turns. judge because of the german soldiers that we get to know in the longest day are older and hiring in the ranks. they tend to be people who were enlisted men in world war ii and playing senior offices and not playing themselves but trying to recreate the people who were in charge of them.

and a lot of the extras had been veterans of world war one and wearing different uniforms and they are french playing germans. and it that is a special. that is a special drawer on authtensity. and when participants are involved and present on the set when particular scenes are shot. and that is please changing around. and going for a request. and that is more as it was. and that is reviews are incredibly positive in

emphasizing the real limp prospect. and when they send out a film. i wonder how much of that and how much is a critical relacks that is not drawing from the press releases. and more so than they do now. >> and the reviews of a bridge too far really go after ryan and neil being cast as a jim. and they say it is ridiculous that a man that young would be in command of troops. he's exactly the right age. and he's exactly the right age in a way that the war movie starts to give the public the idea that the battlefield commander should be a grizzled

old john wayne type and sergeant striker. and he would team up and benjamin in the longest day. and that undercuts reality. and hollywood's realism undercuts the reality of actual life. and makes people doubt a thing that is completely accurate. and there is a strange relationship between realism and audience expectations. reality and audience expectations. >> i really like the phrase and remember, remembering and that gets precisely that idea that hollywood would supplant. and that is so powerful. and you will see it on the big screen as opposed to reading

about it. >> a couple of points that i would like to comment on. it is a movie that tora tora did and japanese attacked parlharbor. and representing a view of the japanese in the preparations for it. was a reason that elicited the audience reaction. and of course, they probably wasn't anybody in the japanese command that was known to americans back then and on the longest day. also the fact that at that time. you are literally in the height of the cold war. and that is the cub an missile crisis. and that is an event like that. and negatively revenge. and that would be much

cooperation. and priechlt ryan comes along. and 40 and 50th and people more easily accept the darker side of it later on. and that is -- that is a berlin crisis. and a cuban missile crisis would go on when the longest day was released. it certainly met an emotional need of a kind of a certainty and gave a reassurance to audiences and reminded of them what the underlying principles and tora, tora came out at a difficult moment in the relationship between the united states and asia because of the vietnam war. i don't want to get bogged down in tora, tora, tora and it is

a long time since i looked or thought about the film. i think that saving private ryan, i see it as being a part of the reevaluation of what is known as the greatest generation. and i think that you have to think about the film makers as being people who had fathers and the person that they were trying to rebel against in the cents was the person they could understand in the 90s and the films that i look at over the contrast. and star wars and you see george lukas and darting vader. and by the late 90s. when those generation that pushed those kinds of feelings are now leaving life behind. and it is suddenly sympathetic. and starting to go to the star

wars films and about how a good person could do bad things and then re-establishing that generation as kind of a heroic generation. and i see it part of that process and revisiting with affection and admiration the people of the 1940s from the perspective of the '90s. and that is and that is accepted of the visual and sound.

and revisiting normandy as fuller talked about doing. and how did fuller feel about one of the stars. and maybe the star and anyone in the film. and that is another one and that is perective.

and that was not a great success. and i told you all, it would be a greatly diminished version of what fuller wanted to release. and just prior to the release. and they spent the career finding actor gina evans and giving them roles and films and seeing something in them that other director and producers had not yet scene and starting many careers. >> marcia, you think he cast mark hammil deliberately. you can have generational casting and the iconic father figure and symbolic younger generation figure. and so the casting of mark

hammil. it is a cross generational message. >> and robert car dine. and have lee marvin. and at the end of world war one. and fuller was interested in retreating. and that is subkwent wars and that is what history does for itself. and that is in the big red one. and that is from the war. that is from the ones. and that is hanging as to why john wayne with middle age. and that is celebrity status.

and that is substantive challenge. and that is both for and lee marvin. and that is full of europe. and i just wondered whether to have a 55-year-old buck sergeant. and lee marvin has the wonderful ravaged face. and i am curious to what the connection was. and how they made a decision and view someone so much older. >> that is a great question and i don't have a definitive answer to that. i don't know precisely why fuller, i know he really wanted marvin. and i think marvin if i remember

correctly was hesitant because of his age to play that role. and fuller really loved to work with veteran and working with people whom he didn't have to that idea of awe ten tisty. that would have appealed to him. it could have been different casting this in the 1950s, in the 1960s. by the time you get to the late 1970s, if you're looking for combat veterans, they are getting older. >> in the back to your left. >> as someone who watched a lot of world war iri, movies, i'm always intrigued by the arc has

changed. in the '50s, there's not a lot, in my opinion, except for a movie named "attack." that's a movie where the army doesn't cooperate as all. hollywood is famous for copy cats. somebody comes out with a great movie then, i got to get mine. you go through that and it's like who is the lunatic making this in spain in the middle of winter.

how does hollywood look at world war ii movies over the last 40 years? you're the folks who study this better than us. take it what you want. >> that's a bookling to answer. that's a big question. i think is part of what do people want to get out of world war ii? is it there to stand for itself or some kind of proxy for the moral purpose of the country. once the united states was involved in vietnam, it became difficult to represent world war ii. you can see how the film is

change e ed by vietnam. we now move to situation where we're looking at -- in step ad star wars being about world war ii. world war ii is about star wars. it's something different than what we would recognize as history.

on all of his films and dod refused cooperation for a number of reasons that are too lengthy to go into. if you wanted military cooperation, your script had to be approved. you had to have certain things in it and not have other things it that might have tarnished the image of the army or the american military. what's acceptable in terms of that representation is always changing too. very different during the war than afterthe war a the war ands after the war. that shapes the nature of what you can and cannot do in a film with any stamp of approval. >> that still affects things today.

it's not in the film? didn't think so. >> in the middle row to your right. i'm not an expert on john wayne. i wish my wife was here. i think she's the local expert on john wayne. it's my understanding he tried to join the military. i don't recall the reason why he was turned down but he was turned down from serving. >> it bothered him a lot. there's even a story he was the oso tried to recruit him. they sent the letter to his house of his ex-wife and she didn't pass it onto him. he did get a participation in

the oss. i think he was guilty about it afterwards. it affected his desire to be supportive and patriotic. i think there's something to it. john wayne was not taking an the longest day as a charity case. he was paid a lot of money to do it. insisted on paying ten times mump than the other members. i think it was $250,000. he was paid for being in the

film. >> question to your right at the same table. >> i'd like to bring up something that we all keep in mind. i'm a combat veteran from vietnam and my father was killed in normandy. i also lead you to appreciation of authenticity. we have a few cannons and horses marching along with muskets. they're real. you can't get a perspective just

how huge war is. you almost can't capture it. what do you do? for world war irk i, you have t reduce it down to a small unit. when you're in the military, you don't have the sense you're by yourself. even special units don't. in order to put world war ii on the screen, you've got to do it. that's very hard to do.

you end up with all these -- the dirty dozens. this type of movie. the second best ever movie made also did that. it was one where clint eastwood, they had to go capture some heroes was a brilliant movie for the purposes of war. they managed to get you the sense of something big and turn it into something small. saving "private ryan," i disagree with you about the banter. it's exactly what people do in small units in combat. >> about the what? >> the banter. >> about the skricript. >> i'm saying they are using lines, version of lines from

terantino films. it would -- >> it swrouwould have been 1960 banter. >> i thought were were talking about d day still. i don't think donald sutherland would make sense in world war ii. he's a hippie. it's part of the film having a double existence. it make sense for the banter to reflect the time being

represented. the film is going to date if it's very much of the moment in which it's made. >> i think it's a really important -- thank you for bringing that up, an important reminder. there's war and there are war movies. that includes documentaries. if you think about what the marines which is very focused. you have to tell a story that people can digest and understand. to tell a story of the war or of day in the war. that's what the longest day is trying to do. it's telling this much even though it has the ambition of kind of the wide angle per spef spective. people wouldn't watch it or understand it. >> we have an online question that's sort of the lines that the gentleman was speaking to. do you believe there's unique ways that d day can be presented in films instead of following

the squad or one day. the answer has more to do with technology. even 20 years down the line, what spielberg is so heightened. with the kind of technology with virtual reality, i think something is going to do something quite interesting with that. i don't know what that will be like that will be more experintexperint experiential. the more you can immerse someone with the feeling of being there and the senses you can activate

in this way, i expect we will see that at some point, maybe even here. >> i would agree. each generation look for its own and find the things that are meaningful to that generation in the story. that will have a special awe then tis a -- authenticity because of the people involved with it. this movie includes in it a veteran returning to d day who has a mental disability coming

out of war. he was brain damaged. it gets into a whole way of thinking about memory of d day in an important way. it occurred to me that there are enough stories in the longest day to tell the whole thing over again from the same source material and have a very compelling movie but without repeating any of the material that's in the motion picture. the story of the mid jet submarine on d day, i find particularly interesting. also the polish involvement. there were polls on both sides

on d day. pols part of the invasion army. how does that play out. >> we have about ten minutes before the break. i think we'll be able to get most of the questions. >> you mention there was a four and a half hour original director's version for the big red one. is that version lost or is it still available? >> it's lost. that's why in 2005, richard oversaw this attempt to reconstruct that based on script materials and there was a discovery in the archives of some of the material that had been cut out. that's literally an attempt to kind of stitch it back together add close as possible. that clock is just a little under three hours so it adds an

hour to the release version. to my knowledge, that tuz ndise exist. >> in the back to your left. >> i have a question for both you have. both of you have talked about these movies that we love and enjoy and the context of the times that they came out. last year there were two books that came out on different subject matter. what was called we'll always have casablanca which is the story of bogart. all the actors that were refuge. have either you have written any books or thought about writing books in the context of the times they have came out.

i have not. it's very interesting because this is so on my mind. the behind the scenes stories are so fascinating and like the big red one. to think about making the film in the 40s, 50s, 6'60s, '70s, i didn't come out until the '90s. it's an incredible story. an entire book could be written about that one. >> what's going on in there as

it reflects. i also did a book about the future. how images of the future change. we had a chapter on what robo cop tells us about 1989 and things like that. i think pretty much everything i do is trying to look for the moment, using film as a window on historical moment in which the film is made rather than as a sort of textbook on the past. >> we just recorded a pod cast yesterday. we started this pod cast about movies. we did it on best years of our lives that came out after the war. a lot of that was really thinking about the context of its release and how that film was really looking forward and trying to figure out how to, not dismiss the pass but move on from it and to kind of

reintegrate. i think when you're dealing with war films, again made during war, after war, immediate aftermath. five years later. it's always changing in terms of that perspective. i think it's one of most interesting. >> not every war gets a film made about it. what do you do if you're like the people in my generation who went to the folk lands. they didn't really have a war, a film to revisit their experience. they have to try and look for things in other people's films that sort of rhyme in some way with something they recognize. there's a great luxury in a country that has enough of a film industry to tell these sorts of stories. >> it's very telling. if you look at how many films were made about world war ii or vietnam and immediately after it's really different. that tells how the con flicflic

were perceived in the culture. >> the reality of film making is it's business. you have to think that enough people worldwide will be interested in the story to make it worth telling. >> when fuller was making his second war film, it was steel helmet. it was at a very difficult time. it was really hard for him to convince his producer that he would make a second film that people would want to see. it was depressing news and are people going to want to see that on screen. it's always a challenge. >> one thing i want to get to is there's a ploemoment where a lis

pretty much repeated. once by an american and once by a german. it raises really interesting point. early in the film where they are getting ready for the -- choosing are we going to go on the 6th of june. is the weather going to be right. john wayne said all these problems with the weather makes me wonder whose side is god on. that idea is both sides in the conflict believed they were doing something right. they were -- good was on their side. that should be troubling. just because we think we're doing good in the world, doing what's right shouldn't stop us

really reflective on that and considering are we sure this is the right thing to do. i thought that was really interesting they would include that kind of moral tension and perspective in longest day. >> to your far right, please. >> thank you. it's been fabulous presentation. i wonder what fuller would have done if he had the ability that we saw take place in ban the brother brothers and the ability to do sequential presentations of this subject which is coming out with some more productions of other matters.

>> that certainly could have been the case. he actually agreed to do it because he was told just think of this as practice for making your big war film. it took another 18 years. i think fuller is someone who was so invested in all -- he was part. he has one of those trajectories where he saw so many different fronts. his journals and his letters, there's a lot of unpublished writing that i can't believe some of it will be coming out. there's just a richness to that material that would have been wonderful if he had not been so

constrained by financial circumstances. >> for my part, i was really taken with the quality of what was put on the screen and the way in which it captures -- it dud does a better job of representing something -- it seems like a more authentic story. it's an amazing art form that's emerged. that's an amazing tool and it's terrific to see what is now being done. they were at the opening of this new era of television with these other long format shows that are

rewriting the book on visual story telling. >> i mean fuller had a real disdain for the kind of strategic higher level stories. he thought the story should always be about the men on the ground. that's really where the story was. there's so many of those stories and so many he really wanted to tell. >> we'll go over our time just a little bit. maybe one last question. >> two last questions. four hours, fuller must have known that was not going to make it. i'm curious to moe what owe think he was thinking and it seems like a real go for break, kind of play with the studio. the question i have in general because you're talking about how we make a movie for our time. i think "saving private ryan"

does focus very much on, it seems where we want to focus on the veterans, get their stories while we can. then you have foilms like right after the war, "best years of our lives." i also think "go for broke" was a real we've got to get theese veterans stories out. it was really trying to get particular story out to recognize the soldiers. do you think is that fashion sort of thing? >> you want to answer that? >> i'll say yes and pass it to

you. >> i have such empathy for this situation. i'm trying to imagine what it would feel like to be him and have this attachment to this experience and this story and to take 35 years to get to finally tell it the way he's wanted to tell it all these years. it's been building up. he know this is is his one shot at it. strategically, it was probably not a good movie because he lost control of what was needed. >> it's shame they couldn't have done multiple versions.

>> thank you all very much. that's the conclusion of our first session. "saving private ryan" came out 20 years ago this summer. more in a moment with historians who discuss the accuracy of "saving private ryan." that's followed by the military advisor who made the movie re realistic. this week the u.s. house is on break and we're using this chance to show you some of our weekend lineup.

>> the conference was hosted by the national world war ii museum in new orleans. friday evening american history tv and prime time looks at the battlefield conference on the history and future of confederate icons such as monuments. speakers include james robinson. american history tv and prime time here on c-span3. sunday night on q and a. congressional historians. >> one of the questions that i hear people asking all the time, is this the most uncivil time in history. >> it's going to be close. if were to pick another period, the years leading to the civil war. a host member came over because

he disagreed what he said. >> we've had terrible political times. >> there was one brawl in 1858 before the civil war that had 80 members rolling around on the floor, fighting one another. one of the members who had a wig, his name was kite. one of the members pulled the wig off and someone else yelled he scalp him. that was enough levity to stop the fight. >> congressional historians sunday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span q and a. there are lots of people who feel like i don't want my kid to read stories that are sad,

disturbing, down beat, whatever. that's like not a totally ill legitimate thing to say. i want to choose as a parent when my kid understands sufficient that might bring them grief. it's like they're 14 now. when are you going to introduce them to the idea that not everything is perfect outside of your all white suburb. all of those factors swirl together to create the perfect dumpster fire of mass sensorship of books. >> science fiction author will be our guest on in-depth edition live sunday noon eastern. interact by phone, twitter or facebook.

the academy award winning world war ii film "saving private ryan" was we released in movies in 1998. next, on american history tv, historians explore the accuracy of the opening omaha beach landing scene and then discuss the historical accuracy of the film in general. this 90-minute event is part of a symposium held at the national world war ii to mark the 20th anniversary of the movie's release. >> this next session brings together academic expertise and these are scholars who