or download them from itunes. >> there are lots of people, i don't want my kids to read stories that are sad, disturbing, downbeat. that is not a totally illegitimate thing to say. i want to choose as a parent when my kid understands stuff that might bring them grief, but there is a point beyond which, well, a r 14 now, when are you going to introduce them to the idea that not everything is perfect outside your all-white suburb? all of those factors i think swirl together to create the perfect dumpster fire of mass censorship. >> science fiction author cory doctorow will be our guest live sunday at noon eastern, discussing his latest book. interact with cory doctorow by

phone, twitter, or facebook. in-depthal series, fiction addition, with cory doctorow, sunday from noon until 3:00 p.m. eastern on c-span two. selected by president george washington in 1789, alexander hamilton served as the first secretary of the treasury until january, 1795. next on american history tv, in a talk titled "the hamilton scheme," enemies and allies in the american economy, author and scholar william hoagland discusses alexander hamilton's ideas. he is the author of several books about this time. the alexander hamilton awareness of society and resume of american finance cohosted this event. 50is about 15 minutes --

minutes. the museum is of closed because of a flood we sustained, but our robust programming continues as evidenced today. author speaking is william hoagland, he has written multiple books on early u.s. history, including automotive the black snake, declaration, the whiskey rebellion, and founding finance. he is also the author of a recent -- contributor, i should say, of a recent publication of historians on hamilton. essaysalso penned many and articles you can read in places like the atlantic on,thly, so long -- sal boston review, huffington post, but none more important than our own magazine, financial history. you can find that on our website. it should be no surprise that

the topic of williams next book is alexander hamilton. it is my pleasure to introduce him. [applause] >> thanks a lot. i know the acoustics in here boom a little bit. can anyone hear me? that is good to know. i think some of you know that maybe it is a little bit -- i am a little bit of a fish out of water here. i would like to point out that the museum of american finance has had me speak, this is my third time. my first talk on alexander hamilton and related issues was sponsored by the museum. that was for my first book in 2006. i think some of you already know , it is celebrate hamilton time right now, and celebrate is not exactly what i do, generally speaking.

those of you who know my work know that i think critically and write critically. i write and think critically about everything because that is how i think. people sometimes think because i am not celebrating that i am filled with hatred for these people i write about. in the't spend your life company of these people because you hate them. nonetheless, for those of you who do not know, you will note the irony of some of my approaches. here we are in the federal building, and here we are on wall street. we could say we are conveniently located right now at the corner of money and government. about is howo talk hamilton began to form those connections between money and the u.s. government. much about some of the things that have sparked such great interest lately, for the obvious to reason of the phenomenal cultural event that

is the musical. i don't talk about dueling, i don't talk about his relationships with his family members, i don't talk about his infidelity. i feel like a lot of people dueled, i think a lot of you know that, i figure have read about it, hopefully, in joanne book.an's a lot of people have family relationships and upbringings and all of the things that people have. i am interested in what made hamilton a dynamic force that he was, that was not like what everyone else did, if you know what i mean. i am looking very specifically at what i guess i would call the great sort of creative phenomenon that he was, that occurred at a certain time. i will dated 1782-1795. you could dated a little -- date

it a little differently. i'm going to take that span. something happened there, of course with everything that went into his life before he arrived in the continental congress, he brought all of that baggage and inspiration and everything that made him, but something happened that was different from what everything -- from what everyone was doing. he was not alone, but things he saw that others did not necessarily see. hadms he had, visions he that others did not necessarily have. sums -- some were very much opposed to. he saw nuts aren't -- and bolts on a level i don't think anyone else saw appeared and then there were the lengths he went to an action. sometimes, quite unsettling lengths i think, to bring those things about. the decisive effects he had on , how we think about

money and government today is what fascinates me about hamilton. almost like he gets born in 1782, the phenomenon i am talking about, the creative force i'm talking about starts about there. i'm looking at the arc of an action, not just thinking and hass, but an action that some very compelling drama to , as we say which today, is highly problematic, but without which we might not be here as the nation that we are. in a sense, hamilton created the nation. in an economic sense. the thing is, the details of that story get left out. you would not think they get left out, it is the reason he is famous, secretary of the treasury. you would not think they would

get left out, there have been a lot of biographies of hamilton, and yet they do get left out not here, the -- museum of american finance, necessarily, but people do not necessarily like to hear the words the economic nation, or the word finance. i am writing a book on this subject and my agent said to me when i was pitching it to him, i would say, the financial -- he would say, don't say finance. we are trying to picture book here people might want to read. don't say finance. i am like, i've got you. every once in a while, the buzzer goes off when i see the word. hamilton would use the word, that the connotations without are not his. to hamilton, this is money, power, wealth, greatness, size, scope, expansion.

things that are actually highly active and dramatic. greatness. i mean like dominance. making the nation into america, the empire, that is a word he and many of his contemporaries would use. making it into the great thing that he envisioned early it could be. when you say economic nation, to him, that is the nation. that is the nation in a lot of ways. and in a lot of ways, i think he was right about that. what hits left out when people say, he did all of these things, but it kind of gets buried in all of the other things about his life, i call it for the purposes of this talk, something we could describe as the hamilton scheme. i think i have water here somewhere, yes i do. the hamilton scheme. scheme is obviously a loaded term.

it can mean a plan, any sort of thought of something, a schema, it can be value neutral. a scheme,e it to mean he is scheming in the backroom, my nefarious plans. only talk about hamilton, we have to talk about that he had a major plan, it goes beyond the plan, it does intubation and a nuts and bolts means of building the country so that it could do the things he wanted it to do. but other people saw it as a scheme of corruption, a scheme designed to destroy democracy. the various uses of the word scheme are throwing here just because i think in this room, no doubt, and if you talk to people outside of this room about hamilton, you will get a wide variety of of use.

whether it was a scheme in a good sense or bad sense. so that is what i want to try to tell you about today, how the scheme worked. and you can all think about, you probably have before, what kind of scheme you sink it is -- you think it is. when i set up an invitation to this talk and description of what i would be doing, i promised an efficient five-minute trip through -- efficient 45 minute trip through everything you would need to know about the hamilton scheme. i realized as i approached the talk, that was a slight exaggeration or a boldfaced lie, he give there is no way in the time we have today that we can do a deep dive on anyone of these topics. what i am going to do now that i rede learned you -- have lu you in here, i'm going to give what superficial sense of

the various topics are. anyone of them at various times, maybe we can do a deeper dive and i can backup some of the rather thansaying just saying them, which is what i'm going to do today. realize the sales pitch was a sales pitch and we are going to get a more general view of what i think the hamilton scheme involves. , hething that is funny became treasury secretary under washington and put his scheme into effect in the first half of the 1790's, but i'm going to focus today much more on the 1780's because that is when he developed the scheme and when the issues that drove him and the opposition to it began to form, and the tension we still society between money and government started to form. while there is a lot to say about what he did in the 1790's,

to get at what he was trying to do in the 1790's, you have to go back to his first efforts and politics in the 1780's, i think. and see him develop it and going on, ifat is he could ever get himself into a position to bring it about. somewhat surprisingly, i will be focusing largely on what he did in the 1780's to develop the scheme. he comes to the continental congress right after his service in the war, the revolutionary war, the war of independence, and this is some thing and don't really talk to much about, yorktown. everyone knows about it now, and the defense of the redoubt. ,o me, that is like juvenilia now he comes to do what he is really going to do what other people could not do. he comes to the continental congress, which at that time was meeting in philadelphia.

interesting because the war is going to be over quite soon. with the war almost ever, the revolution almost ever, victory in a sense on the horizon, we might think, and out of this, this great victory, comes the fantastic building of nationhood, a country will emerge full unified and ready to take on the world. what is actually happening as he arrives in the continental congress, because the war is about to end, the country is about to fall apart. that is because what is holding the country together, these various states, various entities, they are confederated, they are not a nation. what is holding them together has been this war. the unity of the country is around this war. what hamilton sees when he comes to congress is that is a -- it is about to crash and burn. potential tosuch a

do something different, to pull it all together and create an amazing, new phenomenon. and expanding, even in pure phenomenon. that is an outlandish thing to envision for a 20 something-year-old man arriving with his elders and superiors come up many of them committed to different visions at that time. but he began to see it. he was not alone in that, he had a mentor in that vision, robert morris. atame that while it is known the museum of american finance, is not widely known by the people who watch the show or read biographies. morris is a problematic character for a lot of reasons. i think he is hamilton's most important mentor in the area i am interested in. of course, there are other areas of hamilton's life. this creative period. but morris is sometimes a difficult character to deal with he spent his vast wealth

on financing the revolution out of this pocket, some people would say the revolution also financed him. he did not have a problem with mingling private and public funds. menas probably the richest in america, casually corrupt, obese, witty, charming, and quite a character. really the first major banker the country had. the was someone who saw brilliance of young hamilton, and to whom hamilton gravitated. they were looking at the issue of how to keep the country together, and what we're really talking about here is how to keep the country together as a political force, but the way they cite, and this was the genius -- the way they saw it, and this was genius, keeping the country together as a financial

phenomenon. what they were talking about here is what is known as the revolutionary war debt. , it is ano say incredibly complicated topic, and when i study it, smoke comes out of my ears as i try to get a handle on all of the aspects of the debt, but the country needed money to fight the war. the part that morrison hamilton were interested in took the form to a smallsued number of very wealthy people of the robert morris type, who were expecting, hoping to get paid 6% interest on their bonds. there was no tax on that at the time, a nice rate of return. that was supposed to finance the war. this was an interstate kind of investing class, lending class. people withs, the actual money in gold and silver,

or the equivalent in possession. debt, and this is what is fascinating with people talk about debt now and hamilton , the war debt is pulling country together as far as the people who envision a future for the country. you have all of the richest people in the country, or many of them, invested in these bonds. so it is funny to think about national unity being equated and public- war debt, but that is the way they looked at it for obvious and cogent regions -- cogent reasons. what people say about hamilton frequently is he was confronted with all this debt after the revolutionary war as treasury secretary and he had to wrestle with this and get it paid off because they had to spend all this money. that is the opposite of what happened in the 1780's. as you probably know, hamilton is responsible for funding the debt, and assuming all of the

state debts. hamilton funding assumption. funding a debt and paying off a debt are not the same thing. they are in some ways opposites. we know this when we make payments on credit cards, we are not paying them off when we make the minimum payment. this is a funny thing that has happened to hamilton's legacy. it is not just that most people don't get it. i will be do something quickly from the internet. terms put in a few search around hamilton, debt, etc., you can get this. paying for the revolutionary war was the start of the country's debt, true. some of the founding fathers formed a group and borrowed money from france and the netherlands to pay for the war. that is also true, that is where that entry stops on the war debt. john adams went over there, he negotiated, blah blah. the foreign debt is not the important part of the debt.

the domestic debt is what drives all of the issues we still do with today. it was substantially larger in numbers and overwhelmingly more important. but the fact that some website gets this wrong should not surprise anybody, except that this website is called treasury direct kids. it is supposed to educate kids about physical matters. it is the bureau it is the department hamilton founded. is describing his approach to debt in wrong terms. what fascinated him, what got him up in the morning to us, might sound boring, public debt. it was a thrilling opportunity the debt toic debt, rich americans that was the driver of everything i have been trying to talk about. here are some liberal scholars writing a piece about something unrelated. in one trying to fill you the background of hamilton and debt.

they say the most pressing issue is what to do about the new nations debt. andinental congress individual states accumulated massive debts during the war. hamilton, now secretary of the treasury, wanted the new federal government to assume the states that and pay them back in full -- states that -- debt and pay them back in full. this sort of general sense of he came into office, we have run up so much debt and i have to pay it off. i don't know exactly where that comes from. if you heard that we were saying things like that he would be like wow, all of these years later and they still don't get the brilliance of what i was trying to bring about. i don't know how he would feel about that but i find it fascinating that we don't want to know about his real relationship to the debt. -- hen't try to hide it didn't try to hide it, it was

not steaming. he put forward in a brilliant manner and entire program based on this very idea. now, the risk to all this visionary stuff that they were working on, a central bank, central bonds, getting the state debts into federal hands as well. coalescing this massive economic force through government. the threat to all of this in the 1780's is guess what? peace. the absence of war. what is the congress going to do, they think they are sovereign entities. they are not going to make good on these bonds. they might ignore them or cancel the debt. peace is definitely a problem, to the extent that robert

wrote a lettert to general washington requesting that he keep the war going a little bit longer. the idea frequently with robert morris was when he was able to get requisitions and get money, pay the bondholders. it was not about paying the soldiers any troops. pay the bondholders. pay theo not bondholders, if you force the bondholders to take too big of a will prevail,hy stability will falter. first you pay the bondholders. that is i you keep things together. this is an idea that robert morris had. the idea was to get a tax going. a national tax. there was no nation, but a national style tax. agree to gos to beyond the powers they were granted in the articles of confederation. impost theynd

called it on imported goods. he told them it was just the beginning. if we can get them to do that we will have other kinds of domestic taxes as well as. this is the vision for forming nationhood. you can tie it together by collecting in an interstate matter, taxes earmarked for federal bonds. that doesn't sound exactly what we think of when we think of a unified nation. woulds what they thought gather up all of this economic force, all of this wealth, all of this power, and make it grow and become dynamic. skeletal idealy of the things they began to develop in the 1780's. hamilton fought in eight more new wants ways than morris could have probably. 1790's, iffect in the will check with my watch and see how we are doing.

water.sip some in 1783 they -- this is hamilton to my mind. i see him being born in 1782, which is why conceit about this whole thing. his first formative political action on a countrywide stage was to involve himself in a conspiracy. it was to threaten the continental congress, to threaten the states with a military coup in order to bring about the very scheme i described. this is fortuitous in some ways. the officer class had not been paid, they were very fed up about that. they sent officers to philadelphia to demand payment.

hamilton and morris and their crew were finding it very passedlt to get this tax to have the effect of creating the unification of the country around the bonds. they seize on this opportunity that is presented by the angry officer class to suggest that they should also become a bondholders. join in the fight to get the bonds funded via the tax. if the arm -- if the officer class of the army were to refuse to lay down their arms with peace, you have the strongest lobby, literally the strongest that there is. you have an armed force behind this. this was a very dangerous thing to try and do, as washington told hamilton a little later. tos was a threat potentially the republican nature of the country that was supposedly being formed to the states. they did it though, they tried.

think of the incredible audacity , the incredible fearlessness, the incredible ability to take risks with his future reputation and maybe his life. his relationships with his father-in-law, if this had come to light in the way that it could have, think of the incredible high wire act this was. hamilton goes as far as to try and get washington involved in to lead this effort. washington demurrers. what happened is by the way, people city nuremberg crisis was a failure, in many ways it was, washington was not deposed by angry officers. the system continued, the army happily continued under civilian command. all that was good. really, what happened partly was the officer class did get added to the bond holding class. it was the compromise,

washington supported that. have the other components of the scheme, you have the officer class of the armed forces involved in the same economic dynamic relationship. you can see the nuernberg conspiracy is a failure. you can also see it as a success . coming out of the conspiracy he kind of sets the table for what he is going to do in the 1790's. he has a new relationship with george washington, and you might think because washington counseled hamilton, an army is a dangerous thing to play with. washingtonhink that had thought, well hamilton is crazy, i had to stay away from him. actually, their correspondents after the conspiracy is a fascinating study in the dynamics of their always fascinating tents and important andtionsh -- tense important relationship.

washington makes it clear he is 100% in favor of being sure the country is being in a position, this is again towards leading towards nationalism, in a pose edition -- in a position to pay the public creditors. this is a vision that washington shared. we have the sort of picture of the hamilton scheme. -- consultation and concentration of american wealth in a bonded government debt to the rich and obligation to the rich, all in federal rather than state hands. it is hard, they felt they were not getting anywhere sometimes. an interstate obligation to align with the interest of the rich. also, the financial interest in general and the social interest. trying tozzle you are put together, this system, to make it perfect or complete. final click peace

which is the concentration of military power in this same bonded debt. this combines a wealth with government, with force. actual, literal force. the idea of tax collection. pulling the country together and tax enforcement putting the country together. there you have the basis i would say of the hamilton scheme. i think here, we might begin to see how some people at the time could consider this whole thing a bit of a scheme, a bit of a scam even. thing, iid he whole mean the american revolution, the war of independence. what is about to happen was the forming of the nation itself as a mechanism for in reaching rich at the expense of the poor and

ordinary. you could see how some people might take that position given everything i have just described. hamilton had enemies. i think you know he had enemies, because we know about the division in american culture. this is jefferson versus hamilton basically, or jefferson and madison versus hamilton. -- i want tol you complicate that story a little bit. there are other enemies that come first. if we still talking about the and hamiltonrson were not enemies in the 1780's, they did not have anything to do with each other. they come into the cabinet and they will work together in the 1790's. you meet people on a new job and you are like hi, nice to meet you. then you realize this person is

like my enemy. and think this person will ruin everything. hamilton'so became more effective enemy in the legislature. closen and hamilton were allies in everything i told you about except maybe the newburgh thing. madison was very committed to all of the things we just talked about. hotshote the two lawyers in the continental congress pouring over the continental congress to find ways to expand the federal power. you know madison was committed to the federal power and to nationhood. the differences between hamilton and madison become so overwhelming. the enemies that hamilton had in the 1780's are a group of people whose names are not super well known, but they represent a movement, a populist movement. it had its own ideas about finance, if i may use that word.

money, american wealth, accountability to the people, they meant themselves, the ordinary people. these are people frequently without the vote. of course, you had to a property to have the vote. to run for office you had to have even more property. they wanted the vote, they wanted to vote for white men. they wanted the vote for white men without property. what they wanted to do was do things like breakup government monopolies, fix prices, stop the foreclosures, enables small-scale credit for ordinary people. in that sense they would build their own financial system in what they would consider a more democratic way. without the vote, they ride. they were -- without the vote today rioted. they did all kinds of illegal things. we get this torches and mob atrks idea of the the time.

they tore down people's houses. there was violence involved in this. along with the torches and pitchforks image, they wrote resolutions, they said that they wanted. what they wanted was democracy. anathema tohis is the founding generation. if you think about what this really meant at the time, with the populists wanted to do was break the connection between property and dissipation. in that sense. they wanted to break the property connection between propertyand rights, and liberty. that is an ancient connection as far as the famous founding fathers are concerned. breaking is a horror show, you have mopped rule, you have anarchy. these names are not names that have gone down in history the

way to names at the famous founders are. i will tell you anyway to get them on the record. andas young, a doctor activist. james cannon, a math teacher. christopher marshall, a pharmacist, they were both labor organizers. weaver who became a lawyer. and herrmann who had a vision an american society. he wanted to end slavery, stop stealing indian land. he started writing about this in the 1760's. he believed in progressive taxation. he believe there should be some form of taking care of people when they get too old to work, which we might call social security. he wanted government credit programs. end to dynastic wealth, regulation, they actually called

it regulation of the power of wealth. husband, i would like to get this on the record, he was not alone. he saw these things. literally he had the kind of where he actually saw these things. he had literal visions. everything i said that sounds like the new deal, he saw them. he spent his life on a next her g of the book of daniel. the populists were not in our terms necessarily, they were not modern, rational, scientific liberal types. there is a certain in a liberalism to use a term around right now about some of their visions. like you might see in the abolitionist movement. it is not like a we did a study and it is more effective if you don't have slavery. it is a moral calling from a might seem outside

of the enlightenment vision that i would say hamilton represents among others. there is an opposition for you, we won't have time to get to the jefferson-madison opposition. i want to get this other piece in. with the hamilton scheme coming on strong, about to get put in place, it is about to come in the constitution. he is about to become the secretary of treasury. the opposition is this white working class of the day. betweeneresting scope socialistic ideas and a small capitalistic ideas. that, thatsition to is what sets off a lot of the --losions that i believe, amended on this note so we can get some question-and-answer in here. there are still with us in many ways today. i will leave it at that. thank you for your very kind attention today. thanks a lot. [applause]

as we are about to do the question and answer let me say one more thing. i want to thank the museum of american finance for its tolerance of my eccentric and -- eccentric approach. also the alexander hamilton awareness society. i don't know if you will still be speaking to me after this, even if you are not i thank you very much for your liberal approach to these kind of dissenting views. how are we doing this q&a? is there a microphone going around? proposal, i run a blog on hamilton. the proposal for a substitute for the word finance, credit. alle hamilton's work was devoted to the idea of public credit, i suggest that gives a

higher concept to the kind of machinations he was carrying out. the purpose of the credit, of letting the financial class to the government was to develop the country. he had tremendous support from some working-class people as you know from the constitutional activities here in new york. hamilton that was sent down broadway in support of the constitution. because it was going to build the country. that is what i would suggest. william: i think credit is a better word. i'm not sure it is going to sell copies of my book. i would agree it is the more accurate term. was hamilton a bondholder himself? william: i'm glad this came up. -- le spent a lot of time i think that raises a question about personal corruption.

i would like to make this clear, it is very interesting. while he hung out with a lot of the people who would very directly benefit, he wanted to hang out with them, he wanted to encourage them to make things better for them. that is how he was building the country. ,eople spend a lot of time jefferson, madison, others, trying to prove that hamilton was personally corrupt. that he was personally scheming and would benefit from his own project. fascinating that they totally failed to prove that. i think they failed because his vision -- robert morse was scheming and didn't think there was anything wrong with it. if you had an idea note -- i don't know we would begin right now. he was scheming for sure. hamilton had a much more faulting vision. he wanted to author an empire. he wasn't looking to get a few bucks on the side. i'm glad that came up.

when people accuse him of corruption, if they wanted to accuse him of corruption, they should have been a raining the system, not his personal interests. this gentleman is carrying a microphone. thank you for your lovely talk. intot to get some insight his early, formative years. i wondered if you could give us more information on the development of this character, being born out of wedlock. he was denied access to christian education. william: i can't give you. partly because as i was saying, that aspect, -- there he is, backel, that man in the has his hand up. he can tell you everything i would say there is to know about that. he is working on that now.

as i was saying, my interest just does not lie in the back story. i talk about his relationship with washington for a second, i could do a long, deep dive on that. i find it fascinating. i find i am not interested in how that might relate to his father issues or whatever. not because i don't think it is an interesting subject, again i am interested in my father issues. if i knew some of you better i would be interested in yours. everybody has them. i am always looking for the things about him that makes him different. there are obviously other ways to look at this. michael has a lot of that information. sorry, the microphone has been handed away, i don't think we can hear you. >> how to the revolutionary war soldiers, enlisted people, fair under the scheme? i understand that the officers became bondholders, how to be

enlisted shoulders -- enlisted soldiers, how did a fair? william: there's a long complicated answer which i cannot go into. in their opinion, they did not fare very well. they were not made gentlemen. many of them went home unmade. sense,gan to get a whether you agree with them or not, that this whole long seven fors of war had did nothing them. only for enriching the class of people who were arty rich. who they already knew as their local creditors. there already indebted to at rates we would consider use risk and work-- userus already foreclosing properties. anyone else? i.

-- high. -- hi. statue of george washington, there is this bundle of sticks wrapped up, it is a roman symbol for strength and unity. they come from the word of fascist. is not useful of course to call hamilton a fascist. is what you're talking about a combination of financial power and military power, is it not on the spectrum so to speak? william: it is not useful to me. partly because i don't think i know enough technically speaking about fascism to apply it. also, it is not an 18th-century term. where seen arguments people are saying exactly what you're are saying. theou are trying to enrich

richest number of families and manage the economy that way from the top down, maybe. yourss i would go with statement that it is not really useful. categorizing is not really what i try to do when i am talking, when i am writing books about this stuff are talking about it. is make it myo do own interpretation, my own imagination, my own engagement with the material. i tried to make it like it is coming alive. that term would not have existed. it has so many connotations that are for obvious reasons damming. how excited was hamilton when he saw the opportunities? other people can do that and these debateshave and analysis, it may be ironic because of course i am taking you to places that are critical.

it is not because i'm scared to use the term because people won't like me. i have been accused of that i think. it, iot scared to use don't do brings anything to life. it is a good line of thought and worth pursuing. thanks for bringing it up. again, i have to watch the microphones, i can't just call on people. i am watching, i am watching. >> is this working? william: yes. i think i don't understand something because what you just i don't know why the hamilton awareness group would hate you for that. what is that nonsense, or my just a hopeless capitalist? william: i was just kidding if i said -- when i said i don't know

if they're speaking to me after this. my take on hamilton is obviously critical. there's nothing necessarily bad about it. -- i wrote the whiskey rebellion is my first book and how it plays a major role. it comes out of everything i was just talking about that i don't have time to talk about in detail today. some people said to me i finished that book and i hate that guy. i hate him. i thought, well, that was not my intention. find him aou could frightening in some ways and overly intense. you might not subscribe to his vision for the country and a lot of people than it did not. i do not hate him. i think sometimes major enthusiasts, i am not saying this about some people at all. here i am.

i do think some of the big enthusiasts at the moment are you bring up some of the nuts and bolts reality of how some of this stuff worked or seemed to work to those who did everything they could to stop it. no, i don't to get is necessarily bad. i just think some people think it is. one more. >> not all of us hate you by the way. william: i'm not saying anybody here hates you -- it's me by the way. >> when you talk about hamilton economyaffect on the and the dichotomy between the soldiers and the upper-class. hamilton believe that corporations should be citizens, they should have the same rights. the founders, in my understanding, were totally against that. the supreme court has just that into play in other pro-business

things that deal with the federalist society. going back to the original intent of the constitution. you've written about that quite a bit. i don't know if you want to talk that much about it. william: how long do we have here? to have 30 seconds for that one? to say about want that. i will not delve into the whole corporations-people thing. i believe by many as a great , hense of the judiciary makes quite explicit his belief that one thing an independent judiciary can do is slapped down more democratic, fiscal type of legislation. since you bring up the supreme , liberalism, modern liberalism has placed a lot of faith in the independence of the supreme court.

that is not necessarily the way hamilton thought that was supposed to work. the independence of a judiciary can often make undemocratic decisions. in some ways to him that was a lore -- lure for getting people to ratify the constitution. thank you again, thank you to everyone who sponsored this and for all of you for coming out. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2018] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] series, 1960eeks eight, american and turmoil, is available as a podcast. you can find it on our website. this is american history tv, only on c-span3. ii,t the end of world war thousands of american servicemen who were a part of the allied occupation married japanese women and returns to the united states with their wives. thismerica, from 1952,

documentary film and -- looks at the experience of a newlywed couple who settled in cleveland. the american husband and japanese wife, the film shows how the couple adapt to their new community. ♪ >> i was born in a little town. ended5, after the war had , i met an american soldier named walter. we fell in love.