n book tv on c-span 2. next we interview math you ckinley. next we interview massee mckinley, a descendent of grover cleveland and president mckinley. host: you are here because you work with the organization but also because you are the descendent of two presidents. massee: on my maternal side am related to grover cleveland, and on my father's side, to william

mckinley. i'm the great, great nephew of william mckinley and the great, great-grandson of grover cleveland. host: how does families get together? massee: my parents married in the two became one. host: were your parents aware of their lineage when a married? massee: had no clue. had no clue. my father was a longtime history professor at uga, so during the course of time at the breakfast table we talked about presidential politics, presidential descendents. i learned so many stories from both families from those conversations i had with him. host: the two are very different. massee: they are. they are. host: let's start with mckinley. what do you want people to know about him since you have studied his legacy and his life? massee: everybody remembers he was assassinated in buffalo, but the most important thing, and

robert mary's book is brought that to light, is how powerful an impact his presidency gave the country, because we had industrial revolution, expansion around the world, tremendous growth. and i think a lot of times, sadly enough, both grover cleveland and william mckinley are often forgotten. but through books that are written about both, and especially mckinley, and you remember karl rove's book about we mckinley, i think he is revered but in times past he has ften been forgotten. and my hope is that through the course of time and the great efforts of the white house historical society which jacqueline kennedy founded in 1961, through those efforts with education, preservation and legacy, learning about those presidents, they will certainly be remembered.

and i'm trying very hard to do that. host: we visited the mckinley memorial in canton, ohio. what a structure. tell our audience how that came to be. massee: the william mckinley memorial back in the day, people revered him, and you know the significance about the roses they wore back in the day, when he was assassinated. but the citizens of ohio, especially since several were assassinated, thought it would be fitting to come together and ctually create a memorial to his legacy and his memory. and he is probably, in my opinion, ohio's most revered united states president, because he was not only house member, but also, the last u.s. civil war president. so i think the legacy that that produced, in addition to the fact that he was assassinated, probably contributed to him

having this wonderful memorial. it really, truly is. host: it is impressive, the size of the memorial itself. i understand the first lady was very involved in the building of it. massee: that's correct. host: the first lady's memorial museum is also on the same campus, so we you talk about mrs. mckinley and her legacy and role in the white house? massee: absolutely. a wonderful aide, a wonderful wife to william. you know the story about her having epilepsy and william mckinley was such a wonderful husband, that when she had epileptic seizures at dinner time, she would graciously put a napkin over her face and recover and they would go on with the dinner. but because they lost both children, that's the reason he has no direct descendents, as

both of the young daughters died in infancy. but i think she, because of the death of both daughters and certainly the assassination of william mckinley, it cost her to want to memorialize mckinley. and the white house first ladies's home is actually a her home. did you know that? the first ladies' home is actually her home, beautiful structure. i think hillary clinton inaugurated the home back in the day. host: if one were to look at that time, it was a time of great disruption, technological change, industrial change, a lot of parallels to today. we are going through the digital revolution, there are challenges with immigration as there were back at that time, and the purpose of studying history is

to help us understand our time today. what would you take away from the mckinley era that would help people understand the time we are going through? massee: like you said, technological advances, and we were just expanding of rapid speeds and money was being poured into the country for industrial expansion. i think we can learn from that, and today we can take the strides to make sure we have the infrastructure to be able to proceed, and cities can understand how important that is. because i think they were doing it by happenstance and hoping for the best, and sometimes that didn't always work out. we can learn from the past, we can learn from those mistakes that were made during those times, mckinley's times. especially that particular time, because we radically changed in the early 1900s. host: you are more closely

related to grover cleveland? massee: surprisingly. host: he was america's only non-sequential president. what else should they know? massee: they should know he had a beautiful wife. a great story has been passed down in my family. grover was so sad, and francis was so sad, after they were defeated, and she said to the people at the white house, take care of the china because we will be back in four years, and they were back in four years. but the romance they had prior to them getting married in the white house, it was just a love story that will in due are the test of time. she was married in the white house, a beautiful gown. george cleveland, the grandson of clover, was at this event. his sister found that actual address, the wedding dress that

actively exists, in the white house first ladies collection at the smithsonian. it's just a powerful display of how wonderful and how elegant she was, and i think people will certainly learn from history from the. host: there was an enormous age difference between them? how does the family process that information? massee: i think it was a love story that was kindled by francis's father. he was a dear, dear friend of grover and upon his death, i hink grover felt the need to make sure frances was taken care f. he was a lot older, 25 to 30 years, but i think at that time she trusted him. he was the guardian for many, many years, even prior to mr.

folsom's debt. they had trust they had a wonderful family. host: they didn't like life in the white house and tried to protect the family? massee: a lot of times, frances would take the children by cares to sites off campus from the white house, and unbeknownst to the press or anybody that was around, they would secretly do that, mid-day or sometimes in the evenings when no one would be suspect. and i think she was very much, she controlled how her children would be seen. host: they also built houses and what is called the cleveland park section of washington, and grover cleveland used the white ouse as an office?

massee: that's exactly right. there is a ton of correspondence that exists from that time, because he was a voracious reader and writer. and at the time we didn't have the archives like we do today, the presidential archives. so when he left office, all those letters, all those documents were taken by him. i was talking to george just yesterday about how much volume of papers still exists, and they are trying to give those to the museum and institutions like princeton to preserve and definitely keep those, but it's a lot of information. host: where are the bulk of his papers now? massee: they are at princeton. host: and what is their

connection to princeton? massee: princeton is the place the grover and frances retired to buried it's a crazy story, but i've been told this many time. grover did not like woodrow wilson, and at the time woodrow wilson was the president at that time, and he did not allow his children are woodrow wilson's children to play together, because there was a little bit of a rift. so they did not play together. but that's the connection, he retired to princeton. host: while were talking about the cleveland children, he had a aughter that became famous and who eventually passed away, baby ruth. we have a candy bar named after baby ruth. tell us the family stories about baby ruth. massee: so the actual candy company contacted the cleveland family to put the images of the baby and also frances on that. and we have tons of political memorabilia, tons of souvenirs

that have been given away, and they actually contacted the family to actually allow both images on the candy bar. but sadly, like you said, ruth passed away and sadly, susan, she was pregnant with a child at the time and both happened at almost the same time. so she did not get a chance to say goodbye to ruth before she passed away. host: i think it was in her early childhood? massee: that's right, and they were afraid the disease, i think it was diphtheria. hey were afraid the disease would affect the child. and everybody thinks that that candy bar was named after babe ruth's, but that was long past that time. and you hear it from the candy company, they will actually say that it was named for baby ruth,

and you see the likeness on a lot of the candy wrappers. both were beautiful. she was a beautiful child, frances was a beautiful woman, so why not put that on the display? host: let's talk about you and your interest in politics. you mentioned talking about the family history around the kitchen table. when did you take a serious history in american political history? massee: not until like junior high. my dad always talked about it, because i had to other brothers, he was talked about politics, he always talked about the presidency and presidential descendents. but i think junior high really piqued my interest and caused me to take a greater look at it, and the fact that i had the legacies of both families. i certainly wanted to research and read as much as possible, so i think probably my junior high years was the timeframe i became really, really interested in

it. and dad showed an even greater interest, and we went to a lot of the historical sites, the mckinley museum and the library, and grover cleveland's grave site in new jersey. but i would say i really was not as familiar with it in early years, but i think junior high, high school, college, and the interest i had probably caused me to have an even greater interest. host: is it a coincidence your profession is political communications? massee: that's exactly right. i've been privileged to write for some of the greater people, newt gingrich, john boehner and also the current speaker, paul ryan. very specific speeches, i don't do day-to-day stuff, but it's

been a thrill for me to write for them on policy things that i thoroughly enjoy it or it of my work is corporate communications. host: what is it like being part of the community of presidential descendents, is there a lot of interaction among you? massee: no. i hate to say it, susan. years ago we attended the new york mayor's presidential luncheons they used to have, probably 25 years ago. probably in the last i would say five years, people have become more interested. and i approached the president of the white house historical association about six months ago about wanting to create an event for the presidential descendents, because it is something that has not been done, but hopefully going forward we will actually have more reunions. i would hope we have an annual dinner that we could have in

different locations around the country, and i hope that we will as i think it is so important, as you learn so much you share experiences, you share stories about the presidential families, and i just love to be around people that are a lot like me. host: if you had to say your perception of being a president or a wife in the white house is different from folks who don't have this history, how would it be different? do you have a different appreciation for the job? massee: i think i really do. probably the greatest word would be respect. these two men gave of themselves, william mckinley and grover cleveland, to aspire to greater office. and i will tell you, what a sacrifice, and especially during times that were quite strenuous for this country. and i think i do have a greater

respect for the office, i have a greater respect for the people that occupy that office and the sacrifices that they definitely make each and every day. you miss family time a lot of time, and i know for a fact we mckinley, the gazette of the way they had to travel back then, lost a lot of that time with his young daughters because they traveled by rail to different events, and he was apart from his wife for a good bit of time too, and that was traumatic because of her illness. host: thanks for visiting with us. nice to meet you. massee: same. leasure. >> this weekend on american history tv on c-span 3. tonight, at 8:00 p.m. eastern, on lectures and history. wake forest university professor century artist and

then on sunday at 8:00 p.m. eastern on the presidency, a look at how fashion choice s of pat nixon and betty foord affected the times. and a ceremony marking the 250th anniversary turnover u.s. capitol corner stone where they first laid corner stone of the u.s. capitol building during a ceremony that included corn, oil and wine. watch american history this weekend on c-span 3. afterwords.ght on the book "good and mad." she is interviewed by brittany cooper, gender studies professor and author of "eloquent rage." >> i'm a feminist journalist, part of my work as long as i've been doing it has obviously been

rooted in anger. you would not be a journalist writing about gender inequity if you were not mad about it from this perspective you would not be doing it. obviously there has been anger in my work for a long time. when i decided i was going to write this book on anger and thought about how it has played into my work, one of the things i could do when i look back was see the pains i had taken earlier in my career to obscure that anger. if i was too angry i would not be taken seriously. i would sound hysterical and radical. from some of the writing did 15 years ago, it was not very good. like mild pop feminism. when i think about the comments that i got back then. a lot of them were rooted in you sound like a crazy, you know, sex-starved woman who is just

mad because men don't like you. when i was writing pop commentary about paris hilton, the response automatically was you're too angry for me to take you seriously, even when i was covering up that anger with jokes and a general good cheer. >> watch sunday night at 9:00 >> what sunday night at 9:00 eastern. >> each week, american artifacts takes you to museums and other historic places to learn about american history. next, we visit alexandria, virginia, to see civil war related sites where women worked as nurses and aided communities of newly freed slaves. rachel: the national women's history museum is dedicated to ensuring that the distinctive