we can find folks like that and we can be that . >> thank you for your time . >> okay . next, another american history tv interview, this one with massey mckinley, great great grandson of glover cleveland and great-nephew of william mckinley. >> we are talking to you at the presidential site summit in washington d.c., you are here because you work with the organization and also because you are the descendent of two presidents, tell me your family story . >> i'm related on my maternal side to grover cleveland was the 22nd and 24th of the united states president and on my father's side on the fraternal tied to william mckinley, i'm the great great-nephew of william mckinley in the great great grandson of grover cleveland .

>> how did the two families get together? is back it's happened chance because my parents married in the two became one . >> were your parents aware of the lineage when they married? >> they had no clue. my father was a longtime history professor at u ga, during the course of time, at the breakfast table we talked about presidential politics and presidential descendents and i learned so many stories from both families from the conversations i had with them . >> the two are very different. >> they are, they are . >> let's start with mckinley, what you want people to know about him since you studied his legacy in his life that what's the most important thing to know about william mckinley? >> everyone remembers he was assassinated in buffalo, but the most important thing, i think, susan, and i think

robert maries because brought that to light, is how powerful an impact his presidency gave the country, because we had industrial revolution, expansion around the world, we had just tremendous growth. and, i think a lot of times, sadly enough, both grover cleveland and william mckinley are often forgotten. but, through books that are written about both, and especially about mckinley and of course you remember karl rove's book about william mckinley, i think he's always been revered but in times past he's often been forgotten. my hope is that through the course of time and the great efforts of the white house historical society -- association, that jacqueline kennedy founded in 1961, through the efforts of education, preservation and legacy, learning about those presidents, they will certainly be remembered. i'm trying very hard to do that

. >> we visited the mckinley memorial in canton ohio, what a structure. tell our audience the story of how that came to be . >> the william mckinley memorial the way back in the day, people revered him and of course you know the significance about the roses they were back in the day , when he was assassinated, but the citizens of ohio, especially since several were assassinated, thought that it would be fitting to come together and create a memorial to his legacy and his memory and of course, he is probably, in my opinion, ohio's most revered united states president because he was not only a house member but also, susan, the last the u.s. civil war president. so, i think the legacy that this produced, and in addition to the fact that he was assassinated, this probably contribute to him having this wonderful memorial and it

really truly is . >> it is impressive, the amount of space it takes and the size of the memorial itself. i understood that the first lady was very much involved in the building of it . >> that's correct. >> the first lady's memorial museum is also on the same campus, so would you talk a little about mrs. mckinley and her legacy and will in the white house? >> absolutely. a wonderful mate. a wonderful supportive wife of william, of course you know the story about her having epilepsy and the fact that mckinley was such a wonderful husband that when she had the epileptic seizures that dinner functions, she -- he would graciously get a napkin and put it over her face and she would recover and they would go on with the dinner. but, definitely, because they lost both children, that's the reason he has no direct descendents because both of the young daughters died in infancy.

but i think she got because of the death of both daughters and certainly the assassination of william mckinley, it caused her to want the memorial for mckinley. and, the white house first lady's home is actually -- it was her home, did you know that? it absolutely is, the first lady's museum is her home and it's a beautiful, beautiful structure. i think hillary clinton inaugurated the home back in the day . >> so, if one were to look at that period of time, it was a time of great disruption and technological change and industrial change, a lot of parallels to today. so going through the digital revolution, challenges with immigration like there were at that time, the purpose of

studying history is to help us understand our time today, what would you take away from the mckinley air that people can help to understand the time we are going through? >> i think i like you said, the technological advances and we were just expanding at rapid speeds and money was being poured into the country for industrial expansion. i think we can learn from that and that today we can take the strides to make sure that we have the infrastructure to be able to proceed and cities can understand how important that is , because, i think they were doing it by happened chance and they were hoping for the best and sometimes that did not work out. but i think we can learn from the past and we can learn from those mistakes that were made during those times, mckinley's times. especially during this particular time, because we radically changed in the early 1900s. >> grover cleveland, you are most closely related to grover? >> yes that's right, surprisingly .

>> people will remember he was america's only nonsequential president, what else should they know? >> they should know he had a beautiful wife, there's a great story that was passed down from my family over many years. francis and grover were so saddened they were defeated after the first election, so she told the white house staff that she dearly loved she said take care of the china because we will be back in four years and they were back in four years. but, i think, the romance they had prior to them getting married in the white house, was just a love story that will endure the test of time. she was married in the white house. the beautiful gowns, susan was founded by george cleveland, who was actually at the event, the grandson of glover. his sister, ann and marion cleveland: i found the actual dress that, the wedding dress

that exists in the white house collection at the first lady's collection at the smithsonian that's just a powerful display of how wonderful and how elegant she was. i think people will certainly learn from history from that . >> there was an enormous age difference between the two, how does the process -- family process that piece of information? >> it was a love story that was kindled by francis his father. he was a dear friend of grover and i think upon his death, i think grover felt the need to make sure francis was taking care of for the rest of her life. they loved each other. i think he was definitely a lot older by a stretch of 25 to 30 years but i think at that time she trusted him. he was the guardian for many, many years, even prior to mr. fulsome's death, i definitely think she

had complete trust to, they loved each other and had a wonderful family . >> they really did not like life inside the white house, they wanted to protect the family, how did they do that? >> that's right. a lot of times, susan, francis would actually take the children by carriage to some of the sites off campus of the white house, unbeknownst to the press or anybody that was around , they would secretly do that, midday or sometimes in the evenings when no one would be suspect that they would be out. i think she was very much -- she controlled how her children would be seen . >> they also built the houses in what is called the cleveland park section of washington and the family more or less live there and grover cleveland use the white house as an office?

>> there's a ton of correspondence, that's exactly right, susan, this correspondence exist from that time because he was a voracious reader and writer and at the time, as you will no, we didn't have the archives like we do today, the presidential archives. so when he left office, all of those letters, all of those documents were taken by him. i was talking to george just yesterday about how much volume of papers still exist, and they are trying to give them to the museum and institutions like princeton to preserve and definitely keep those. but, it's a lot of information . >> where are the bulk of his papers now? >> they are at princeton . >> what is the connection to princeton, what happened at their lives that brought them to princeton? >> princeton is the place where grover and francis retired to. i never will forget this story,

it's a great story, susan but i've been told this many, many times. grover did not like woodrow wilson and at the time woodrow wilson was the president at that time, he did not allow his children or woodrow wilson's children to play together because there was a little bit of a rift, so they did not play together but that's the connection, he retired to princeton . >> while we're talking about the cleveland children, they had a daughter that became very famous, who unfortunately passed away in her youth, baby ruth. we have a candy bar named after baby ruth, tell us what you know about the family stories about baby ruth . >> so the actual candy company contacted the cleveland family the images of the baby and also francis on that. and, we have actually have tons of political memorabilia, tons of souvenirs that have been given away. they actually contacted the family to allow both images on the candy bar but, sadly, like

you said, ruth passed away and sadly, susan, she was pregnant with a child at the time and both happened at almost the same time so she did not get a chance to say goodbye to ruth before she passed away . >> i think she was in her very early childhood . >> that's correct. they were afraid the disease, i think it was diphtheria, they thought the disease would certainly affect the child . >> everybody thinks that candy bar was named after babe ruth but it was long past at that time. but you hear from the candy company, they will actually say that it was named for baby ruth and you see the likeness on a lot of the candy wrappers. both were beautiful. she was a beautiful child.

francis was a beautiful woman, so why not put that on display, for sure? >> let's talk a little about you and your interest in politics. you mentioned that the family used to talk about the family history around the kitchen table, did you take a really serious interest in american political history? >> i would say, susan, and tell like junior high. my dad always talked about it because i have two other brothers, he always talked about politics. he always talks about the presidency and presidential descendent. but i think junior high really piqued my interest and caused me to take a greater look at it and the fact that i had the legacies of both families and i certainly wanted to research and read as much as possible, so i think probably my junior high years with the timeframe that i became really interested in it and dad showed an even greater interest and we actually went to the historical

sites of the mckinley museum and of course grover cleveland signed a gravesite in new jersey but i think, yes i would say, i really was not as familiar with it in early years but i think junior high, high school, college, and the interest i had in that, probably caused me to become even greater and have a greater interest in that . >> is it a coincidence that your fashion is political communication? back that's exactly right, no, susan i've been privileged to write for some of the greater people, newt gingrich of course john weiner, and the current speaker. it's a thrill to be able to write to them on policy things and i thoroughly enjoy it but most of my work

what is it like being part of the community of presidential descendent and is there a lot of interaction among you? let know i hate to say it, years ago he attended the new york mayor's presidential engines they used to have probably 25 years ago in the

last five years people have become are interested in i approach the president of the white house historical association six months ago but wanted to create an event for the presidential descendents but it's something that has not been done. hopefully going forward we will actually have more reunions, but hope to have an annual dinner that we could have in different locations around the country and i hope that we will pick i think it's so important. you learned so much in your shared experiences. you share stories but the presidential families i just love to be around people that are a lot like me . >> if you had to say your perception of being a president or wife in the white house is different from folks who don't have this history, would it be different plex do you have a different appreciation for the job . >> i think i really do. probably the greatest world would be -- word would be respect. these two men gave of themselves, william mckinley and grover cleveland. to aspire to greater office and i will tell you what a sacrifice and especially during the times that were quite strenuous for this country. i think i do have a greater respect for the office. i have a greater respect for the people that occupy that office and the sacrifices that they definitely made -- and

made each and every day. you miss family time and a lot of time, and i know for a fact that william mckinley, because the way they had to travel back then, lost a lot of his time with his young daughters because they traveled by rail to different events. it was hard because he was apart from his wife for a good bit of the time and that was traumatic because of her illness . >> thank you for visiting us during this white house summit. nice to meet you . >> thank you. same, pleasure. >> more to be covered to this weekend.

the germans are surrounding them and firing, the men take cover near what they call the charlottesville mill, meanwhile, the rest of the division cannot reach them . >> watching american history tv this weekend on cspan-3. >> this weekend, saturday at 11:30 am eastern,, dan kaufman,

the author of the fall of wisconsin and carol anderson on her book, one person novo, how voter suppression is destroying our democracy to watch our live coverage of the wisconsin book festival saturday at 11:30 am eastern on c-span two book tv . >> sunday night on afterward, fox news guest analyst and member of the trump 2020 campaign media advisory board on her book mad politics, keeping your sanity in a world gone crazy. she is interviewed by representative louis gomer of texas . >> this is -- is donald j trump crazy?

>> lazy like a fox, yes. i believe narcissism is the spectrum and i do believe that most of us, i am not meaning you, but most of us to put ourselves in the public i have an unusual sense of confidence. there's a reason. if you want to call that narcissism i don't have a problem with that. is that a dangerous narcissism? i don't think so. other dangerous sort of narcissism, absolutely. we've seen it in the politics but our president doesn't fit in that category at all . >> watch afterwards, sunday night at 9 p.m. eastern on c-span twos book tv . >> filmmakers and former white house officials describe the work on productions depicting the white house and the presidency, the discussion hosted by the white house historical association was reco a