election to fill the seat of the late congresswoman for the remaining weeks of the 115th congress. he had previously served in the new york state assemble since 1991 including five years as majority leader. new congress, new leaders. watch it all on c-span. >> tomorrow on c-span # 3, a conference committee of house and senate poerpgs members who are trying to reach an agreement on border security. it has a deadline. the first meeting of the group is tomorrow at 1:30 p.m. eastern. you can watch that live here on c-span 3. >> with the deferred action for childhood arrivals deferred action for childhood arrivals back in the news,, we're joined by randy capps of the migration policy institute to take a dive into that program. it feels like we've been talking

about daca for a long time. >> it started in 2012. there had been legislation in congress several years introduced. the idea being because they came as children, they weren't personally responsible for that act of coming to the u.s. illegally. were the eligibility requirements? which children? >> yeah, part of the focus -- of course they have toar come as children. they have to be here before age 16. and part of the focus was on better educated high productivity people. they had to still be in high school or have at least a high school degree. they had to have been in the country for five years at that time, 2017 to 2012, which is now more like 12 years, i guess, because we're in 2019. and they had a maximum age of 30

which is now a maximum age of 37. >> remind us of the political discussion of this program back in 2012 and how controversial it was at the time. >> it was controversial but the political discussion kind of went off the rails after a point in time. there were ath lot of people in both political parties and across the the spectrum who felt that people who came here as children, people who were well educated would be high performing, did deserve some protection. it was aon small group. we estimated at the time maybe one and a quarter to 1 1/2 million people. so some people were for it. some people were against it. but it wasn't thatid controversial. what became controversial was when in 2014 president obama proposed expanding the program to four million people. that much larger program that was called dapa as opposed to

daca, that's when things went off theke rails. people said that's too much. that's when the lawsuit started that eventually blocked the program. >> who's eligible for dapa? describe that. >> that was a much broader population that we estimated could have been as many as three million when you add that to daca. out of the 11 to 12 million total unauthorized immigrant population, that was for parents that had a u.s. citizen, basically u.s. born child. and ourmm estimate was that the were nearly 3 million unauthorized immigrants that had a u.s. born child. and they had to have been in the country for a certain period of time and meet otherr small criteria. >> bringing it back to the daca program, how manyt: people have taken advantage of it versus how many i people are eligible for . >> 900,000 people have applied

and the latest estimates are 670,000 people are enrolled from the program now. our estimate isle somewhere between 1.3 million to maybe 1 eligible.n people are 900,000 out of 1.3 people, a fairly high share of eligible people have applied. >> be happy to have some of those daca recipients call in. 202-700-8000. 202-748-8000. having this discussion with randy capps of the migration policy institute until 9:00 this morning. the house is going to come in at 9. we'll take you there for live gavel to gavel coverage. remind viewers what the migration policy institute is. >> c. we're a nonpartisan,

non-profit think tank based in washington, d.c. we havegr an office in brussels. wewe focus on immigration polic and immigrant immigration in the united states and worldwide also with a focus on europe. >> how long have you been around? >> since 2000 and primarily by major foundations we do get some federal government funding for the department of homeland security. d >> and a deep dive into the daca program is the topic of our discussion. take us through the time line of actions by the trump administration on the daca program leading up to some of the court cases that we heard about earlier this week. >> during the campaign, president trumpon and many othe republicans in congress referred to it this way as an unconstitutional power grab. the president issued through an executive action.

but as s a candidate and as president, trump is also referred to hmerit, that some immigrants are more deserving to others becausere they have more education, more productivity and thee daca group fits that as well. for about a year there wasn't any action on daca and eventually i think it was some states said they would sue to stop the program, it forced the president's hand and that's when he announced the termination of daca. in this polarized environment we have, we have some states that were against daca and some states in favor of daca. those states sued the trump administration to keep the program open arguing that he didn'td go through the proper process in reviewing the program. and basically they prevailed at the federal district court level. there was an injunction placed last year on the daca program's

termination meaning it would stay open for the time being and people who have the benefit now can reaplay but it's not taking any new applicants. we're at that level now and then just this weekend the supreme court refused to b take up the case meaning it's probably going to be another year before daca could actually be terminated. >> and finally president trump's offer on reopening the government, your understanding of its impact on the daca program in terms of what's on the table. >> sure. so if we think about the supreme court probably won't rulee for another year. so i daca is probably in place r a year or maybe more. and the president is offering three years. so he's basically offering an additional maybe two years. after that, it's not sure what wouldar happen. it's basically keeping that

program goings as it is for the years. it's not t opening it up to more people. it's not making it permanent. it's not making it a long term program. >> that's. where we are on daca. time for your phone calls. jerry is up first in, north carolina. you're on with randy capps. >> yes, sir. i think you just answered my question. i was curious about the status of the daca issue in the court system. i think that was just answered. i do have another question, if you don't mind me getting a little bit off subject.id >> go ahead, jerry. >> my question is, what last year i think president trump attempted to through an executive order only allow immigrants to apply for asylum if they entered through the ports of entry. and that was blocked by the courts. my question would be would it notuc be relatively easy for

congress to make a change in that law such that you only would believe to apply for asylum if you entered in the ports of entry and would that not go a long way to resolving a lot of the issues that the american people have about illegal immigration because it would placefo more control on t number of people who are able to apply for asylum? >> thanks for the question. >> i think that's an excellent question because the reality is right now the flow of particularly the families and children but also many of the adults coming from central america are t arriving at the border and requesting asylum. so the issue is how do you deal with that? one approach is to say they have to go through the ports, they can be deported quickly, that the bill in congress right now saysys that children from centr america who arrive at the border can't request asylum and they can be deported quickly without a hearing.

so that provision more or less is in the bill as it is. they have to apply for asylum from their home country. something similar to that suggestion is inhe the bill. i think where people who study the issue would take issue with that is by limiting asylum that much, there are going to be some people who are deported back into harm's way and so our recommendation has been as opposed to tos just blocking i off entirely to speed up the process so that the people who really deserve to get asylum get it and the people who don't deserve it geter deported. and we believe it's possible to do that if the information were to devote the resources to streamline the application process. >> rosemary is next. >> caller: good morning. i have a question regarding the

support. if it wany action was brought te supreme court, would what happy. >> we assume that the supreme court will have the final say if there isn't legislation. but my understanding and i'm not a legal scholar, they don't have tolw take up the case either. they could always let a lower court ruling stand. clearly they could rule that the president has the authority, all, daca was an executive action of the obama administration. i think there's an argument that the trump administration has the authority to end a program that anotherec president started tha doesn't have congressional support behind it. but the process by which they did it wasn't a correct process. that's been used for affordable care act.

once the supreme court rules, if they say that the program can be terminated, that's the end of the program if there isn't legislation. >> by the way, i should note on migration policy institute website, plenty ofou tools thate use on the "washington journal" to talk about numbers when it comes to immigration issue. here's the deferred action for childhood arrivals data tool breaking down daca recipients by state. our last caller was from pennsylvania. the number ofyour daca recipienn pennsylvania, about 4,870. the migration policy institute estimates that those meeting the criteria is about 14,000 in the state. so the participation rate in pennsylvania, 35%. you can click around the various states and other information tools on the website, migration

policy.org. >> caller: my question is, why is there any discussion about illegal immigrants when we got veterans homeless that are starving on the streets that fought for our freedoms? >> randy capps? >> i think we need to have both conversations. i think at the moment there are 11 to 12 million unauthorized immigrants in the country. there's also millions of homeless people and veterans. they're both populations what in need of assistance. the thing is, many of them do have jobs, many of them don't need assistance. they're not eligible for public assistance so they're not taking benefits away from other people. at least from my point of view. but that doesn't mean by a long shot that this is the most important problem facing the country and honestly, that's oni of the challenges in having the whole federal government

shutdown over there.: because there's a lot of other problems not being addressed in society. >> silver spring, maryland, next. >> caller: my question is,d ch is the status of the -- that probably the children here r. they eligible to become citizens? how do they stay indefinitely. thank you have a good day. >> that was the program that i mentioned earlier, the deferred -- >> dapa. >> dapa as opposed to daca. that program would have offered at least a temporary depre from deportation. that was blocked by the courts. right now there's nothing for parents. if you're an unauthorized immigrant parent you don't have another way to get a green card and it's very difficult.

if you cross the border illegally, you're blocked from getting a green card. they're working with and the sad of working conditions as someone who has legal status. host: new mexico, good morning. caller: my comments on daca is like >>ve my comment on the dak is, venezuela going on right now, they're fighting for their own country, i don't understand why mexico -- don't fight for their own country? >> i think that they have a responsibility to go over there and fight for their own rights and put down the people that are over there and strain out their countries, they're coming over here and trying to fight for their rights here when they

should go back over there and fight for their own country. to be honest with you, they're really cowards because with daca, these that have grown up over here that are legal, they're still illegal. i want to say this, i think you should put a background check on them because a lot of their families comehi from drug deali families. >> mr. caps? >> i think that's an interesting point about mexico because a lot as changed in mexico. right now there's a new government there and there are a lot of activists and there's a lot of change going on in mexico and a lot of people actually have stayed and fought for change and they have a new government that has the prospects to make mexico more prosperity and more zrierable evenhe leading up to this curre change in mexico. improvements in the economy of mexico and society.

there's stillth problems with crimes and drugs. there's still big t problems wi mexican. but the reality is that the immigrants notegal

taking benefits. health health care in care administration and people who are not documented in this country utilize medicaid. they utilized benefits through their children. heardt telling you what i , i'm telling you what i know for a fact.

have access to benefits in this country through the children they have. you also made an offhand remark about using fraudulent social security numbers in order to do work. that's a federal crime. i'm a law-abiding man and have always been. i have to tell you right now that the federal government allowing people to get into this country and overlooking the numerous illegalities they do every day is corruption and corrosive. i hope you don't take personal offense to it, thank you very much. guest: he is right, the children of on authorized immigrants if they are u.s. citizens are eligible for things like medicaid and food stamps. the reality is, they are u.s. citizens and it's true that unauthorized immigrants have children like other americans. i think that's a symptom of them

being well and building futures here. are not illegally here and they will go want to become productive u.s. citizens in the future if we invest in their health care and education. there is a short-term cost to that. the amount of benefits that these immigrant families used a relatively minor. they are working and paying taxes and it's very positive. there's a balance between the amount of taxes paid by immigrants and the services used by their families. as the work and the rule of law is concerned, yes, technically, it's a crime. it has been a criminal offense since 1996. before that overstaying a visa was not a crime. using a false social security number is a criminal offense.

>> using a false social security number, that is a criminal offense. but it's a victimless crime. you're talking about people who are paying into social security but because they don't have a proper card, they can't take out. so in reality, it's a net benefit that they're paying in money into this system that they're not going to be able to use. ins completely argue with the caller that there's a lot of corruption when this happens because you have em employers that can plower wages, change working conditions, employ people in terrible conditions, sometimes not even pay them which lowers the working conditions for all workers not just unauthorized workers. it's not something that we like to see8 in our economy which i8 million people working under the table. that's not right. but i don't believe there's any evidenceul showing that there's other significant criminal

activity in thisny population aa higher rate than the rest of the population. if anything, they're more likely to be working and less likely to be engaged in crime. the final thing i want to say on that is that ideally we would do background checks on everyonealn this population. ideally we would deport all the people who committed serious crimes. maybe their a minor drug violation orso something. ifhe you do the background chec and it turns out they've done something serious, then i agree they shouldn't be in a the country. but the west ofy, them if we haa system where they regulated and stayed and worked legally it would clean up a lot of the corruption that the caller is working out. >> time for maybe one or two more calls when the coall comes in. >> caller: i have a very unique situation. my grandmother came from the uk. she became a naturalized

citizen. my mother could not go to college because our family could not afford it. i have ar very unique point to issue. this my mother recently died. she never could go to college because my grandmother become a naturalized citizen. so this is my point which is very unique. i am a graduate of a college in california, we build the rose float parade. we had a president there who was --- and i'm not kidding, a japanese american. he not only imported orientals of chinese decent, they also had people coming there that were spanish. >> we're running out of time before the house comes in. i want to give randy capps our

last minute or so before the house comes in either on that or on expectations for the future ofig the daca debate in congres >> let me do both quickly. education is a big issue. that's one of the biggest things with society. andd there are all sorts of proposals outut there to make college free. there are also proposals to make certain groups including the daca dreamers eligible for reducedtu commission. ideally college would be more affordable for everyone. that's one issue. as far as the future prognosis, who knows? right now i think the two sides are really farre apart. what's proposed in the legislation that's been introduced in the senate is a three year extension of daca as it is with some additional restrictions like earning 125% of the federal poverty level.no narrowing the current program and onlyn keeping in place for

three years. what the democrats would prefer forpo not just the current population but those who are eligible for the population to be able toop apply for somethin permanent. there's a lot of distance to cover betweenen those two optio. >> we'll seet what happens on e floor of the senate today. daca part of one of those votes. that's going to do it for today's "washington journal." i want to thank randy capps, from the you go migration policy institute. >> tomorrow on c-span three, a conference committee of house members who are trying to reach an agreement on border security. the conference committee has a deadline of february 15th to work out a homeland security spending bill acceptable to both sides of the ale. the first meeting is tomorrow at 1:30 p.m. eastern. you can watch that live here on c-span 3. live super bowl sunday at noon eastern, author and sports

writer dave z irr in is our guest. game over, how politics has turned the sports world upside down and his most recent, jim brown, last man standing. >> i love sports, that's why i think we need to fight for sports. we need to take sports back. we need to know our history. that's our greatest ammunition in our fight. we need to know the history of the athletes, the sports writers and the fans who have stood up to the machine. if for no other reason, i think it allows us to look at the world and see that struggle can affect every aspect of life in this system even the ivory tower known as sports. >> join our live conversation with dave with your calls, e-mails, tweets and facebook questions, live sunday at noon

eastern on c-span 2. >> c-span where history unfolds daily. in 1979, c-span was a public service by america's cable television companies. and today we continue to bring you unfiltered coverage of congress, the white house, the supreme court and public policy events in washington, d.c. and around the country. tz c-span is brought to you by your cable or satellite provider. coming up later, congressional budget office director keith hall testifies before the senate budget committee about the cbo's new report on the budget and economic outlook for the next decade. we'll have that live at 2:30 p.m. eastern. and now on c-span 3 the cbo director speaking with reporters yesterday about that economic and budget outlook. he said budget deficits w