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unfiltered coverage of congress. the white house, the supreme court, and public policy events in washington dc and around the country. c-span is brought to you by your cable or satellite provider. >> we are back with kate. our spotlight, we are going to talk about her article where that says nra show signs of decline even in trumps america. good morning. >> thank you for having me. >> so is the nra, the national rifle association, is their influence over washington? >> i think for starters in the house of representatives where democrats just took control, the answer is definitely yes. we have a number of people when election in november on a message of gun control. you saw people, lawmakers tout their negative rating by the

nra. you also saw them say if democrats win control of the house, we are going to look at new gun control measures which they have already introduced including a bill that would basically require background checks and all gun sales including at gun shows and what have you. so the answer in the house is definitely yes. there are other things going on also with the national rifle association which has really become synonymous with the gun lobby in recent years. there are other organizations that are also grassroots in nature and do a lot of lobbying on gun issues but the nra has really been sort of the number one spender when it comes to lobbying and political money for second amendment rights organizations. so that is why it is so high profile. it makes it a target of opponents as well as exercising

a considerable amount of political and legislative heft. i will say though that i think things like the bill that democrats have proposed in the house, while that may pass the house of representatives likely on a partyline vote, i don't expect it to pass the senate. i would expect president donald trump to sign something like that into law. i don't think that we will necessarily see something major enacted this congress but you'll have to look at what moves in the house and are there things that the senate could get past their. it remains unknown. >> so the nra is losing, has lost influence in the democratic-controlled house. what about in the republican- controlled senate and what about in president trump's administration? do they still wield the same

power there? >> republicans still remain very very strong supporters of gun rights, second amendment rights. i don't think you are seeing that chip away in terms of elected officials, elected republicans. i think it is part of a broader conversation, probably anybody in america once to sort of come up with solutions to problems of gun violence, particularly high profile mass shootings. we have just seen so many of them that people are searching for answers and i'm absolutely certain that people who are supporters of gun rights are also. it is just that we are may be the majority of people are right now, they are looking for something expanded background checks, things like that, something that might address

the problem. i think in the senate, there have already been introduced bills. i looked at this in my story for roll call. there is a bill that would essentially make it so that if you have a concealed carry permit in one jurisdiction, you can go to other jurisdictions that also allow conceal permits and to sort of make that sort of have a federal blanket policy for that. >> and that was senator john cornyn? >> that is correct. it doesn't show that gun rights advocates certainly have champions in the republican controlled senate. again, i don't see the republican-controlled senate taking up big new gun control measures and moving them. so i think the answer is that that is a much bigger hurdle

for gun control activists to move something in the senate but you asked about president trump who was very much endorsed by the nra, has a lot of support in the gun rights movement. we saw after the las vegas shooting, that was in october of 2017. that was just a terrible massacre at a concert. a country music concert. and after that, there was, the shooter in that instance had modified a rifle so that it sort of worked like an automatic, the bunt stock. so after that, there was a call, we should ban these. why are these allowed? i think people who are hunters, they like to use them and certainly not for legal

purposes, most obviously were not used for legal purposes but there was an outcry. after that, the trump administration worked to impose a ban and those are now banned. i was looking and writing this story, the nra, what the nra wanted was a carveout for people who already own the bunt stock. grandfathered in. and the band did not do that and the nra was unhappy with that according to the statement that the group put out. i think it showed that yes, they are strongly alive with the trump administration but it doesn't mean that they are going to get everything that they want. >> let's make sure our callers can get involved in this conversation. if you are a nra member or supporter, we want to hear from you on this topic at 202-748- 8000. if you oppose the nra, we want to hear from you as well at 202-

748-8000 one. if you fit in either one of those categories, we have a phone line for you as well. that is 202748, 8002. keep in mind, we are always reading on social media, on twitter and cspan wj and on facebook@facebook.com /c-span. we know they have lost influence in this democratic- controlled house. maybe the administration, maybe in the senate. are there any other signs that show a possible weakening of the nra's political muscle in washington? >> yes. a few things are going on. one thing tying off of that las vegas shooting, before that shooting or right around the time of that, house republicans were considering a bill that would have eased restrictions on silencers which make gunshots quieter.

silences them. which is controversial in its own right but after that terrible mass shooting in las vegas, even house republicans basically put that agenda item to the side. so the gun rights groups such as the nra that were pushing for that, that went off the table so they did not get that. and you would think in 2017 with all the elected officials really, you had a republican- controlled house, a republican- controlled senate and a republican gun rights friendly republican in the white house. they did not move that measure and i think it shows that there really is, there really has been a backlash as a result of some of these horrendous mass shootings. >> now just to inform the rest of our conversation, can you give us a little background on the national rifle association? how they started, how many members they have and to is the

president right now? >> sure. the presence right now is oliver north who took over last year. so there is some transition time. there is some changes going on. i want to mention one other aspect tracking the national rifle association. we looked at their task force, as a nonprofit organization meeting are they tax exempt organization, all of those have to file a four 990 with the irs. those for 990s are to be made public if someone asks for them. so we look at their 990s and what the revenue decline of about 15%, that total revenue at the national rifle association. it went down between 2016 and 2017. i have to look at my notes

because i cannot memorize these big numbers but looking at in 2016, total revenue of about $366 million and then that had dropped in 2017 according to the nra's own tax form to about 311 million. i will say, and this is in my story, that a spokesman for the nra said that was a temporary dip, and that in fact, what he says is that this year, as of now, their membership is at an all-time high of about 5.5 million members. so it may well be that we see in the next round of tax forms that the revenue is back up. but what he said was that nra membership is at an all-time high and about 150 year history. so it is a group that started again 150 years ago to basically educate people on firearms. it supports hunting and learning how to shoot, handle

weapons and things like that. it has increasingly in recent years been more engaged and sort of the social board i guess if you will, in these political conflicts that are much more partisan and gun control and gun rights has become very very partisan as anyone knows. where you have pretty much democrats, it is almost like a litmus test that you have to be for gun control to be a democrat and on the other hand, for republicans, they are strongly pro-gun rights and not for new gun control even when there have been opportunities for parties to sort of workout agreements, we have seen them sort of fall apart even after like the newtown school shooting in 2012, there were some efforts of senators to have a bipartisan compromise and that did not happen. >> let's let some of our callers take part in this

conversation. let's go to joshua's calling from oklahoma. he is an nra supporter. good morning. >> good morning. so i heard that one of the things they are looking at doing is doing background checks at gun shows. it seems like nobody in washington actually knows anything about gun shows or background checks because they already do that nationwide. i mean it is unbelievable people in washington want to regulate and change the laws and they don't even know the existing law. >> i think there is probably a lot of confusion about when to people have to undergo a background check. certainly when you sell to an individual, a private sale, there is usually no protocols

for background checks in those cases. so the caller makes a good point. if you go to a gun show, you might have to, you might be required or they might do a background check but that doesn't mean that is the case in all done cells. it doesn't mean that all gun shows our salespeople or individual sellers that all gun shows are complying with that. i think the point of this is to make it uniform federal government, all across the united states. >> let's go with jonathan who calls from texas. jonathan opposes the nra. good morning. >> yes sir, good morning. i do oppose the nra but not for the reason that most people would be expecting. i am a former nra member and the nra has actually turned its back on so many gun owners. that is the reason that their rates are dropping. the grassroots organization such as open carry texas and

many others and all the other states are the ones going to bat. >> jonathan, in what way do you think the nra has turned its back on some of its members? >> i'm sorry. i didn't hear that. >> and what way do you think the nra has turned its back on its members? >> well the bundt stock but they did not fight hard for that. and then we have the reciprocity agreement. and if we do pass the gun control bill with some of the nra are for, then the next step on that is going to be 50 state registration. they will already have all the paperwork from all gun sales and at all times and then it is just a click of a mouse to say that and have gun registration in all 50 states. >> so kate, is there a split happening among nra members? >> it sounds like there is. at least among some. i thought that was an interesting point that the caller made that the nra didn't

fight back hard enough on the bump stocks. obviously, that is his interpretation. it may well be that the nra looked at the situation and just sort of figured that it wasn't going to win on it, but like i said, they put out public statements and certainly, we are doing lobbying on that and other issues. so i mean obviously, that is the perception. there are other organizations that lobby on gun issues including gun owners of america. i guess we will see that some of the members move to other groups, i do not know. that is certainly, the caller made an interesting point. >> republicans control the white house, the house and senate for the first two years of president trump's administration. with any big legislative wins

for the nra during that period? >> not big signature legislative wins. again, there was that silence a bill that i mentioned that was sort of in the work in the house and again after the las vegas shooting, that basically got taken off the agenda. that was house republicans taking it off the agenda. >> can they points to the supreme court as a victory for the nra? >> yes. i talked to people who really look at the gun control movement, the gun rights movement and there is no question that president trump to appointees to the u.s. supreme court, neil gore such and brett kavanaugh are widely viewed as proponents of second amendment rights. so that is an area that you could look at for gun rights supporters as a when. >> will there be any cases before the supreme court where these two new judges, justices brought by president trump be

able to make an imprint on gun laws in america? >> i'm sure there will. i'm sure there are cases working their way and i would love to turn it to my colleagues that cover the supreme court and asked them specifically. i think there hasn't been any new big federal laws to challenge so we would have to look at what is happening in the state. i think it remains to be seen but certainly, that is an area where the supreme court has weighed in and not taken complete, has upheld rescript -- prescriptions investment restrictions on certain types of firearms in the past. i think lawmakers can an act no restrictions that would likely be upheld but you are absolutely right. there is a changing dynamic on the court right now. >> let's go to john who is calling from louisiana and he is an nra member.

good morning. i'm pretty sure i pronounced the name of your city wrong. >> that sounds right to me. >> all right. go ahead with your question, john. >> a couple of minor issues. the nra was founded to promote marksmanship. the second amendment defense -- defense came on much later and they do a lot of that through the nra institute for legislative affairs which is a little bit of a separate thing. silencers, it is not silencers. it is suppressors. silencers have been around for years. they are tightly controlled. you have to have a license. there is all kinds of restrictions. you have to pay a hefty fee and a few other things. a suppressor is nothing more than a muffler on a car. it cuts the noise of the gun which is more for those of us who shoot a lot. i do a lot of target shooting and even wearing ear protectors, a gun is noisy.

so it is a safety issue just to make me, so i can ship more, have more fun and not lose my curing which i lost years ago because i flew jet airplane for the air force. one other thing, the nra you talk about their loss of support. there are a lot more organizations now that are what are called, i would call the organizational specific as opposed to big picture. for instance, concealed carry, there is one organization all about the concealed carry. the reciprocity which is what we are talking about just like drivers license. my drivers license in louisiana is good in texas and all the other 49 states. concealed carry, that is what we are talking about, a reciprocity. there is an organization for that. there is organizations for defense of concealed carry permit holders who are charged with a crime exercising their rights under the concealed carry. there is a variety of other organizations that have come

into existence and then there is another umbrella, it is called civilian marksmanship program which today actually takes military weapons from world war ii, 1911 pistols, they put them into the civilian population. it is an organization that was legislated many many years ago. most people don't understand that. it is perfectly legal. it is perfectly okay to do that. and then the final thing is to this day, they still do not have a motive for the shooting in las vegas. they don't know why that guy did that. obviously, he was i would say deranged but i'm not a psychiatrist so i cannot guess that. and then the bump stocks, the bump stocks were originally put out there as an accessory. they are not part of a firearm. they are like power steering in a car. some of them had them and some don't but yes, the nra, i was

ambivalent about that because i do not have a bump stock and i had no use for one. but there is just a lot of things that you are saying that are kind of true and i don't fault you for not knowing because i don't know if you are a gun owner, i don't know if you participate in gun shooting but there is a lot of buzz words that are tossed out that are obviously not accurate and they are tossed out in that way for a political agenda. >> let's get back to his point, the nra is a victim of its own success. there are now a lot more groups out there doing some of the same things that the nra is doing which might account for some of the people not being in the nra anymore. >> rights. he mentions all these issues of the specific organizations and thank you for pointing that out. that is interesting to note that maybe if your real issue,

if you are a gun owner and your real issue is concealed carry, maybe you want to join up with a group that is totally, that is their total focus. so that is interesting that there might be sort of offshoots or that there might be offshoots or other things. i will note that the nra says of right now, the membership is at an all-time high. we will see. i did want to point out also that the nra's lobbying spending for 2017 and 2018 was also at an all-time high of about 5.1 million for both years. so that is another way to look at a group's influence and something organizations report on how much they are spending. about $5 million. or you could say a little over $10 million for the first two years of the trump administration. i wanted to also note that one of the things i looked at an this story was that, in the 2018 election, when we looked

at outside spending, we looked at money tracked by the center for responsive politics which is a nonpartisan organization that looks at money and lobbying and political spending. outside groups that were for gun rights -- mostly the nra, outside political type spending. they were at about $9.9 million i think. i cannot remember the precise figure. for the first time, gun control groups, the outside political spending for them was more. they were closer to $12 million. so i think you are seeing -- whatever you want to make of that, you saw in the 2018 election. outside spending by gun control advocates. including the group that was founded by former congresswoman gabby giffords who was a victim of a shooting herself.

those groups, every town, another one connected to former new york mayor bloomberg. a lot of interest in the 2018 elections. and i will mention again that there were lawmakers who lost campaigns for reelection. people who had come in the past, a ratings from the nra. like karen handel in georgia. she lost to lucy mcbeth whose son was a victim of gun violence. and mcbeth has made gun violence a signature issue. jason croton in colorado, a democrat, he beat mike coffman, another republican that had an nra rating. so whether gun control was established -- central issue in these races almost doesn't matter. the point is that you saw candidates win the election in november on an unapologetic gun-

control message beating out republicans who had sided with the nra in the past. >> let's go to brad. a caller from international falls, minnesota. brad, first of all, how cold is it an international falls this morning? >> today it is pretty warm. it changed dramatically from 45 below, to basically 10 above today. >> wow. a big shift. 10 above is still pretty cold to us in dc. >> yellow. that is normal. it is winter. i don't sensationalize weather. like you would have to for the suburbanites. it is how it is. i am listening to your conversation and thinking, i'm not for the nra and i'm not against the nra. so when i am hearing people push the foolishness of it, i asked myself a couple of questions. one question is that, have any of you ever heard of the nra

committing any of these things? these mass shootings? you don't. and so, the second question is that, you know, there has never been a law that has ever stopped a gun murder or violence. and they think that by putting more laws into the books, that it is going to help something. well, it doesn't. so what are we going to do? and this is just a political football for the democratic party. if you look at the gun violence throughout the whole united states, basically if you took the top 7-10 cities in the united states and use the numbers they are having problems with which are basically democratically controlled, that the democrats control, we are more left than most countries. the problem is, democrats don't

get what happens when they pan up their own people. >> i don't know that there was specifically a question there. thank you for the comment. i do think that obviously, there have been has been news from the nra in the past to look at solutions to mass shootings. and they have called for more security. more arm security in schools and things like that. in some places, in some jurisdictions, that actually exists. but in many places, i think there has been a reaction against that. i did want to bring up another thing that has come up that is specific to the national rifle association. and not related necessarily to some of these offshoot groups that may be looking at concealed carry and whatnot. and that is this investigation

into foreign interference during the 2016 elections. and the nra has gotten looped into that. and senator ron wyden who is from oregon is a top democrat on the senate finance committee and is also on the senate intelligence committee. he has been looking into ties between the nra and russia and looking at, could there have been donations coming from russian interest? and of course, made big headlines. the nra's corrections -- connections with a russian national who pleaded guilty to basically unregistered, being an unregistered foreign agent in the united states. so that is another thing that the nra has had to deal with that has really not anything to do with mass shootings and gun violence specifically. but they are sort of under the microscope on the russian

interference situation as well as some other campaign-finance allegations. the magazine "mother jones" had a story the last couple of months about potential inappropriate coordination between the nra and candidates. the nra does a lot of outside spending and it is not supposed to coordinate directly with candidates. and what this story alleged basically was that there was an appropriate coordination going on. so there may be some investigating of that going on as well. >> we are running out of time. so for the last call, we will ask them to make a quick question or comment to so we can get in as many people as possible. let's go to rick calling from portland, maine and he opposes the nra. rick, good morning. >> i would like to ask about what she knows about gun- control laws in other countries.

australia. hunting is very popular down there. but i think it was from a couple of decades ago where they had a mass shooting. they very much revamped their laws. canada. these are again hunting popular countries. maine, hunting is popular. i want hunters to have the guns that he was. but they don't use handguns. they don't use automatic weapons. they don't use bump stocks and they don't use semi automatic weapons. they don't go out with magazines carrying a couple dozen bullets or more. so what can we learn from these other countries? i'm sure we would have to reinterpret the second amendment or rewrite it. but what can we learn from these other countries where hunting is popular and yet, they have controlled the supply and the availability of guns that kill people. >> you definitely have seen

gun-control advocates use data from other countries. australia is one. so they say if you impose restrictions or ban certain types of weapons or the high capacity magazines and things like that, that there can be proven results. do we know that that would work in the united states? do we know that would be upheld by the supreme court? i think it remains to be seen. and we have not seen -- certainly we had an assault weapons ban at one point that expired. we have lawmakers that are trying to reinstate that. i'm sure they are looking at the data and what that might be from other countries. but the caller made a good point. that we have the second amendment and that has to be taken into account. >> we would like to thank kate for being with us today on

her magazine article "the nra showing signs of decline even and trump's america." thank you. >> the cspan washington journal live every day with news and policy issues that impact you. coming up wednesday morning, virginia republican congressman kline will join us to talk about the border security deal reached by congressional negotiators that would avoid a government shutdown. and new jersey democratic congressman tom malinowski, talks about his role on the house foreign affairs committee and oversight of the trump administration's foreign policy agenda. then los angeles times immigration reporter molly o'toole will be on to talk about the debate in congress over the border while funding and the issue of detention beds for detained immigrants. be sure to watch cspan's washington journal live at 7:00 eastern wednesday morning. join the discussion. >> coming up tonight on cspan

three, the house committee considers legislation that could require the president and vice president to release their tax returns. then a discussion on u.s. infrastructure needs and the lack of action by congress. later, the cochairs of the national defense strategy commission on national security. >> next time a hearing on presidential and vice presidential tax returns. the house committee is considering legislation that could require the president to release his tax returns to the public. this hearing is two hours and 25 minutes.