benedict arnold's triumphs as american army general and the revolutionary war and questioned whether his legacy as a notorious american traitor is entirely accurate. malcolm is the author of "the angedy of benedict arnold: american life." this one-hour talk was hosted in the university of mary washington as part of their great lives lecture series. [indiscernible] >> what a nice crowd tonight. good evening, everyone. [beep] [laughter] evening's to this lecture on one of america's most noted lives. benedict arnold elicited a one-word

discretion from most americans -- traitor. perhaps we were wrong or partly wrong. so, tonight we will use -- we paul harveye old phrase "the rest of the story. but first it is a special pleasure to recognize the sponsor of tonight's program, marilou chapelle, because she and her husband john have been the foremost supporters of great lives since the very beginning. it is in fact no exaggeration to say that the program would not exist as we know it today without the extreme generosity of the chappelle family. so we are delighted that marilou and john have joined us from philadelphia as it gives us the opportunity to express our deep appreciation for all that they have done for our program, not just tonight in particular, but

for every night. john and marilou, will you stand please? [applause] tonight's speaker, dr. joyce lee malcolm, earned her ba degree from barton college followed by, and phd in comparative history from brandeis university. she has taught at princeton, bentley college, austin, northeastern university, and cambridge university. she is currently the patrick henry professor of constitutional law and the second amendment at the scalia school of law at george mason university. as an acknowledged authority on constitutional history, in the areas of gun control, second

amendment, and individual rights, she has published essays in the wall street journal, the financial times, usa today, the boston globe, and other newspapers. she has written eight books. the most recent of which is "the tragedy of benedict arnold." evaluating that book, one reviewer wrote that in clear engaging language, malcolm reconstructs the surroundings, relationships, and political atmosphere of the revolution. it is a vivid addition to revolutionary war literature. another called in a work of genuine excellence. as persuasive in its argument as it is unsettling. -- unsettling in its applications. ladies and gentlemen, it is a pleasure to welcome to the great lives podium, dr. joyce malcolm. [applause] joyce: thank you very much. a pleasure to be here. i want to thank professor crowley and the sponsors for inviting me.

this is a real treat for me to be able to talk about this subject. let me get my act together here. i was going to say the state of the union and benedict arnold's time was not good. >> [laughter] dr. malcolm: he is widely known for treason. but, before that, he was one of the great heroes of the revolution. i would like to get into some of the details and the context in which he was acting in that revolution. he has been considered, and blamed for being greedy, self-serving, and reckless. it did not really seem to mean to make sense about somebody who actually risked his life on numerous battlefields. whom, when the congress did not pay his men, paid them from his own resources. really took that opportunity to

serve his country before he decided to change sides. there is a picture of the man in his younger days. he said, during a court-martial. by the way, he was court-martialed, not for any military problem, but for some of the feeling that he had misused his position for financial gain after he was wounded and serving in philadelphia as the commander there. he says i have suffered in seeing the fair fabric of reputation, which i have been raising since the present war. undermined by those whose posterity, as well as

themselves, will fill the blessed affects of my efforts. below that is a description by one of the men who fought the site him, and who he -- beside him, and who he led at the battle of saratoga. he said he was dark skinned, with black hair, and middling height. it was our fighting general and a bloody fellow he was. he did not care for nothing, he would ride right in. it was, come on boys, it was not, let's go boys. he was as great a man who ever lived. these damning judgments about him did not seem to make much sense. i wanted to have a better understanding of what he did before hand and why he decided

to change sides. j.w. -- said this about arnold. he said in natural military genius, neither washington or -- was comparable with benedict arnold. he possessed all the gifts of a great commander. sound strategic and strength. a wealth of resource, a swift and unerring eye and action. great personal bearing and true magic of leadership. it was he and no other who were in saratoga. daniel morgan was in saratoga. benedict arnold was the most formidable opponent who could be matched against british in america. advertised in that tv series "turn" his lovely wife has become notorious. she is sort of the eve who tempted her husband into

committing treason. i will tell you a bit about peggy when i get to that point in his story. some things i cannot talk about a musty want to stay here all night. i will just highlight some of the particular points and key moments in his career. i would like to go in some detail into the battle of lake champlain. this is one that i think people know less about than they do about saratoga and other battles. it started in october of 1776. the british had amassed some 13,000 british, irish, and german troops in canada, ready for an assault going down lake champlain in an effort to take albany.

there is a lot of emphasis on trying to separate estate from new england, in order to give them an advantage. they had been bringing over ships. the americans had no ships on lake champlain with which to combat the british fleet. the lake is beautiful. it is four miles wide and 400 feet deep. it is also very shallow in the inland's. the new york committee of safety was desperate about trying to build some kind of a fleet in order to stop this up british fleet from coming down lake champlain and taking albany. they asked arnold to build that fleet. at them from upstate new york, it is not the ideal place to build a fleet of ships. even in good weather. arnold had been brought up by a

father who was a merchant seaman. in his youth he spent summers on the sailing ships going across europe and up and down the coast of north america. his father died after a career where he became depressed, an alcoholic, and bankrupt. arnold started his own business and became a merchant seamen. he was the ideal person to ask to build ships. he tried to recruit artisans to build the ships. it was hard to get seamen, because most of the people who were experienced seamen, with washington trying to protect manhattan from the british, he personally selected 20,000 boards of timber. it would crack and be useless for the ships. this was the main ship that would be his flagship. it is called the royal savage. he was responsible for snatching it from the british after he took -- the year before.

they got the ship from canada. he also built a couple of scooters, galleys our 80 feet white 20 feet with two mast, and a series of ships called gondolas. these are traditional gondolas. they actually carry a crew of about 45. they have six cannons and one mast. they are very shallow. they could be more maneuverable than the ships the british were burning down.

it was very good for their waters there. in the course of two months, he was able to build this fleet of some 15 ships. the british built their ships in canada in three months. one of the things they did that i thought was amazing was, they brought over prefab sections of ships. they actually got when they came down canada to come to lake champlain. this was the largest of the british ships. the british had a much bigger fleet. flexible and thunder were there to larger ships. the each carried six 24 pound guns. thunderer was a larger ship ever seen on lake champlain. all of arnold ships, together, had a combined canon rate, which is the way the evaluate the navy, had a canon rate of 703 pounds. the british ships had a combined canon weight of 1300 pounds. they had almost twice the firepower of arnold's fleet. arnold had been surveying lake

champlain to find a proper place to send his fleet to await the british coming down from canada. he decided that he would take his fleet. if you have a smaller force, you do not want to be in the open, you want to be somewhere where you are protected. to be in the shadow of an island called valcour island. arnold's ships are the clear ones in the shadow of that island. they hid their from august until september 23 when he took his ships with him. 500 men to valcour island. they were painted red so they would blend with the leaves of that island. spruced trees were sharpened on points and put around the edges of the ship to keep enemy

sailors from boarding. they stayed behind the island, waiting for the british fleet to appear. the british did not even have valcour island on their map. they just came sailing down. they went beyond valcour island and did not even see arnold's fleet until they were about five miles south of valcour island. that is when they turned and had to go upstream in order to fight the americans. to get them into action, arnold was on the royal savage. another of his ships went towards the british ships to try to lure them into the shadows around valcour island. he got caught in the crossfire and his ship got caught on the reef, and it was devastated. he had to go to another ship called the congress.

by noon, the noise of the cannon could be heard 30 miles to the south. the battle raged for six hours. it is to his credit that this little fleet was able to keep the bigger british fleet fighting for six hours. by the end of it, 80 of his men had been killed or wounded. they used up three quarters of their ammunition. his ships were in really bad shape. they retreated further into the channel next to valcour island. the british just assumed that, in the morning, they would be able to finish off this little american fleet. the arnold had a plan. unfortunately, his route of escape was to the south. the british ships were towards

the south. he had to somehow figure out what to do. i will just read you a little section from the book about this. this is that evening. general waterbury road to the black waters that might to meet arnold aboard the congress. they were despond it, but arnold had prepared for this moment. he had a plan, desperate that doable plan. the fleet would escape i slipping between the british ships, blocking the valcour island channel and going to safety. it was an exceedingly risky strategy. the vessels were badly damaged and some were leaking, but the little fleet have lost 80 men, killed or wounded, included many officers, with 20 others captured.

if any of the british cruise spotted them, they would be vulnerable and destroyed. what other option did they have? it was a moonless night. a heavy autumn mist shrouded the american ships as they begin moving in single style. they bustled their oars, and kept the wounded below decks so that their cries would not be heard and alert the enemy. each ship was completely dark except for the small lantern in the stern and the one in the bow. a market in the rear made the vessel just visible to the ship immediately behind. one by one, the gondolas and the smaller vessels followed in silence. the congress was onley. they were so close to the carlton, one of the british ships. they moved one of their -- inadvertently leaving a passageway for the american ships to slip through.

they got through that night. the next morning, when the british admiral was convinced that he would be able to just finish off this american fleet, he discovered that they were gone. he assumed that they would have gotten north of the valcour island channel. they could not have done that because it was far too shallow. he did not know that. first he went north looking for them. when he could not find them he turned around and went south. the american ships had gone about seven miles to the island to repair some of the ones that were repairable. then they headed for crown point, which was 28 miles to the south. as they were going, the british eventually caught up with them. so, two of the ships, the congress, and the ship that turned to fight the british fleet, the rest got away.

the washington was badly hit and its commander was violently hurt, leaving congress and the commander alone. they fought until their masts were torn to pieces. they eventually ran out of ammunition. with the ship torn to pieces, he broke through on these gondolas and made for a creek on the vermont sure. the men waited ashore with their weapons. a burned to ships. they then began to march through the woods, carrying the wounded. when they got to crown point they realized it was unsafe and went on to ticonderoga, carrying these wounded, and finally reached it on october 15. the admiral in charge of the british fleet had caught up and destroyed most of the american

fleet. it was now late in october. he did not have any particular supplies up in that part of lake champlain and vermont or new york. he did not know what to do. whether to wait through the spring and stay there are the winter or not. he decided it was too risky to stay there. you ships mic it frozen into the ice. he turned around and went back to canada. even though arnold's little fleet was destroyed, they were able to hold the british up long enough that they saved new york and albany for another year. it was not until the following year that you had the battle of saratoga. general gates, who was the

overall commander of the american army in that area, wrote to one of the other generals. he said if it pleases providence to preserve general arnold, and then his general orders on that day gave estimates to give thanks to general arnold and the officers,seamen, and mariners for the defense they made for the enemies force. the historian of the british army was scathing about carlson having decided to go back up to canada. very different if the british were commanded by such a man is arnold. was amazing gallantry makes him the hero of the short campaign. after that, arnold went with

gates to washington's camp. he was there about the time that washington decided to cross the delaware and attack trenton. washington actually had to do that because the men were in such short enlistments, that, if he waited any longer, his army would have gone home. while he had them all under their command, they crossed the delaware. it was his one great victory for that time. congress decided that it was really important, finally, to give washington an army with longer enlistments. they exacted something from him for that. they deprived him of discharging any of his general officers. we read about all the soldiers of fortune from france and germany coming across to join the army. they were given superior commands by congress, not by washington.

there was a lot of disgruntlement among the officers of the american army that these people were brought in and put in superior positions over them. at any rate, it took washington the ability to appoint and discharge the officers, and they promoted five junior officers to major general ahead of arnold. some of these people had never done anything, and washington was really amazed that congress had done that and was not sure why. it turned out that you are only allowed to have so many major generals, depending on the number of men in regiments from your state. he was very disgruntled about that, and upset, and ready to resign. there are a lot of people now that right he was too prickly. his feelings were hurt that someone was promoted over him. it was considered a polite way of telling you that you were no

longer wanted. i was thinking, even today, when someone is appointed over you, there is a sense that maybe this is a nice way of saying, we are sorry. he was ready to resign, but washington asked him to stay on. he said he would stay as long as washington felt his services were needed. he was sent to rhode island, but on the way he went home. he was from connecticut. he went back to connecticut where his wife had died, but he had three children who were being looked after by his sister and his business. she sold off virtually all of the equipment and supplies that he had. that was her way. he was treated as a hero in new haven and hartford and middletown. but while he was there, he got a message that -- while he was at home trying to figure out his finances, he got a message that the british were landing troops

in connecticut and were on their way to take some of the supplies that the americans had been gathering there. a courier had arrived with this news. some 26 ships were spotted 25 miles south of new haven. their object was supply depot to danbury. two of the generals from connecticut relieving 600 militia, and had already marched off, hoping to protect the supplies. arnold rushed from his home to join them. the officers and men arrived four miles from danbury at 2:00

in the morning, only to learn the depot was already in flames, along with many houses in the town. the british, led by the governor of new york, had accomplished their goal and were gone. the americans were not sure which way they had gone and were determined to head them off. they divided their exhausted troops to take them on. pursuers and pursuits struggled. members of the connecticut militia were proud to rally behind arnold and join him. the british were headed for ridgefield. apparently, they had some really good information. they set the homes of known patriots ablaze. there was a lot of people living around who were happy to tell

them who they should be looking for to harm. one of the men who had taken some of the troops, had taken two men along another route. arnold, aiming to get behind the enemy, he received a fatal wound. arnold and another general marched to ridgefield with 500 militia. they caught up with the regulars at 11:00 in the morning. they had 500 men but were outnumbered by 2000. i am losing my -- here it is. 2000 of the british regulars. arnold ordered his men to make a makeshift barrier. here is ridgefield. out of wagons and other materials so that they could hold off the british behind that makeshift barrier. they were finally forced to retreat when a british force flanked them. arnold's horse was shot. i would not have wanted to be one of arnold's horses. they were always shot.

that worst does not have a long life span. the horse fell and trapped his leg under it. a young local tory came up to him, surrender, you are my prisoner. arnold freed himself saying, not yet. drawing his pistol, he shot the man in the chest. he ran to a swamp with bullets springing around him. the following day he sent out the message to one of the generals to move the men from the front. there were able to get away. after this rallying of these

troops, and trying to protect connecticut, congress relented, and they gave arnold his promotion to be a major general. they did not restore his seniority, but at least they decided to give him that promotion. this is now 1777. later that year is the very decisive battle at saratoga. that battle was one of the major achievements of arnold when he talked about how we would all be grateful for some of the things he has done. this is the major one. washington had sent him because he felt that the militia would follow him. he had tremendous charisma that men would follow him right into the face of death. it takes a tremendous amount of self-confidence and a spirit of being able to rally people in able to do that. the officer who was in charge of the army at saratoga was general gates. who had liked arnold when he built the little fleet on lake champlain. arnold was a protége of washington, and gates or someone who wanted to replace

washington. he was kind of jealous of arnold. he had been confined to his tent during the battle by general gates. he left without any commands while the ground was shaking from the pounding of the guns. after being confined to his tent, he could tolerate no more, he dashed towards the battlefield shouting, no man shall keep me in my tent today. if i am without command i will fight in the ranks. the soldiers, god bless them, will follow my lead to big he or death. i galloped into the thickest of the fighting pursued by major john armstrong, who general gates had order to bring him back. arnold was faster and catching

up with the rear of learners brigade. a soldier said, arnold was delighted. god bless you, i am glad to see you. come on, if the day is long enough. a cheer went up as he galloped back and forth on his horse, brandishing his sword over his head. what amazes me is the idea that someone without any official command could get out on that battlefield and the men would follow him. and they did. the reason that he had no command was, i say this, general gates was not fond of him. he was jealous of him. he wanted him to basically leave the army. the men had petitioned, and the officers petitioned that they wanted arnold to stay.

even with the command, he had stayed. i should say too, the person who did not leave his tent that day was general horatio gates. gates' tent was in a place where he could not see the battlefield. he spent the whole day in his tent, and one of his men who came to tell him what was going on found gates was spending his time arguing with a wounded british officer about the merits of the revolution. he was very disgruntled and could not consent to this officer that the revolution was a good idea. here is arnold, out there fighting, and there is gates in his tent arguing with a wounded enemy. arnold led an assault on the british works led by a light infantry. they attacked drove the british from their brigade. leading the regiment, arnold attacked. he was aware of what is called the sally port, where the

british lines opened up for anybody who needed to retreat. he led his man right at it. he could see there was a weakness in that line and that is where they needed to go. here we have the map of saratoga. you can see the different men. these are different officers. they were all american officers. there is gates at the back headquarters on the southern part of the map. then arnold going towards that area. he attacked at the sally point.

the germans fled the final -- thrive, firing a final volley as they went. one bullet hit arnold's horse, killing him. arnold,ll hit shattering his leg just about to the bone. he had been injured the year before in the battle to take québec. men who saw him fall rush to bayonet the german soldier who shot him. arnold said, don't hurt him. he did but his duty. on my brave boys, and they did.

when arnold was hit, one of his fellow officers asked where he had been hit. and he said, "in my leg. i wish it had been my heart." later on he was carried from the field, bleeding and helpless. he waved away the officers who hurried to help him. when captain dearborn asked where he was hit, he said he wished it had been his heart. armstrong, who gates had sent to catch him and bring him back, now caught up with him. of course, he was hurt and wasn't going to go anywhere. but he was unwilling to go back to headquarters. the men of the militia company caring for one of their own, carried arnold into the field hospital. gates never stepped foot on the field during the battle that day, nor did the second-in-command, but horatio gates was given the honor of having won that great battle, and congress had minted a special coin.

there is a wonderful painting of the surrender with gates accepting the surrender from the british. this was a great turning point in the revolution, and because of that great victory, the french, who had been quietly helping us, decided to come out openly and support the americans, and it was basically because of them that we won. once the french got into the war, the british realized they were going to have to pull back a bit in america because they had colonies and interests all over the world where the french would be competing against them, so this was really a tremendous help. arnold, of course, spent something like three months in a military hospital in albany in terrible pain. the doctors wanted to amputate his leg, and he would not allow them to do that. now, the amputation would probably have made sense because

he might have gotten gangrene, and i think he probably didn't want to because he did not want to live a cripple, really. he would have prefer to have died. that is just my thought on it. i actually have a picture of him falling during that battle. after three months, he survived, but he was having to learn to walk again. he was really, really badly maimed from that and was never completely healed. i should say on that note that note that, years later and he was in exile in britain, he had several sons who joined the british army, a couple of whom fought in india, and one of those sons was shot in the leg and refused to have the doctors amputate it. he died of gangrene, so arnold was just not willing to put up with that because he was now

-- up with that. because he was now wounded, he could not take the field, and he was sent to philadelphia by washington. the british had evacuated philadelphia, leaving a terrible mess. the pennsylvania government had fled from philadelphia when the british came, and now, all of these people would have to come back to their city, and arnold was to be the commander, to ensure order and stability as they came back. this is where he meets peggy, this lovely woman. this is arnold at philadelphia. here is peggy. she was known as the most beautiful woman in philadelphia. i know, people now look at that picture and think she doesn't look that spectacular, but, well, i do not know whether the portrait does not do her justice, but all of washington's officers were in love with her.

she was lovely. she was 18. her family were neutral. her father had been a judge working on one of the admiralty courts for the british, and when the war broke out, obviously, he left and tried to remain neutral. the stories about her being involved with andre, in an affair, are not true. i hate to tell those of you who have enjoyed watching that story on television, but actually, she was wooed by arnold and married him. the government of pennsylvania was led by a committee, a council of seven people, and they were very radical. they had fled when the british took over. they came back. they had a long list of names, of people they wanted arnold to arrest right away as people who

were possibly loyalists,= or certainly were suspect. 332 people. and also some people they wanted to convict with a bill of attainder, which is just basically voting in legislature that someone was guilty, arnold refused to arrest all of these people. one of the other founders of our republic, james wilson, actually defended a lot of those accused of treason by this council, but they didn't like arnold at all. he was too moderate for them. they resented him. having been there a couple of months, they had drawn up a whole list of charges against him. they felt he was not -- he was misusing his position. he used public wagons. he paid for them, but they didn't like the idea he use them and crossed over from pennsylvania to new jersey with those. so they drew up these charges, printed them in the local paper, sent copies to every other

state, and insisted that the congress court-martial arnold. i should say that we sometimes forget that the continental congress was in philadelphia, so the government of pennsylvania really did have the congress right there in their backyard, and it was a little hard for them, sometimes, to deal with these people. they said he was -- arnold was oppressive to the faceless subjects of the state, unworthy of his rink of station, highly discouraging to those who manifested their attachment to the liberties and interests of america, disrespectful to the supreme executive authority. that is themselves. there was also -- and i had not realized this until i started studying this issue -- a lot of division within the patriot side, so there were people who were more moderate, more radical.

and the radical pennsylvania council had gotten the militia charged up, and at one point, the more moderate people in philadelphia, including wilson and morris and some others were actually barricaded in their house against this radical militia, which surrounded the house and attacked, bringing rods and crashing in the door, and there was shooting occurred, fighting broke out, and six or seven men were killed. this is among the patriots within the patriot side, and others badly wounded, and arnold rushed when he heard the fighting, but, by the time he got there, the council had appeared and they simply arrested everybody. when he was charged by the council with these infringements, the congress

decided that washington better have some kind of court-martial, and arnold wanted it because he thought it would help clear his name. there were court-martials all the time. i was amazed. most of the people who sat on arnold's court-martial had themselves been court-martialed. [laughter] at any rate, two of the charges he was convicted of one on the wagons, and the pennsylvania council had threatened there would be no wagons for the continental army unless they got arnold on this particular point, and they had washington write him a letter, censoring him. it is around this time that he decides to approach the british. one of the other things that happened to him, and i will conclude, is that even though he resigned as commander in philadelphia, he was attacked in the street by thugs who claimed that he was in favor of the loyalists, had to draw his guns to protect himself.

he asked the congress if they could provide a guard for him and they said, well, we cannot do that, but ask the pennsylvania government. of course the pennsylvania government were the people who really disliked him, so it felt like there was no way to get around these people. they also felt he had not been careful enough with the money they had given him for his military campaigns and that he owed to the congress something like 1000 pounds. i should say, i am running out of time, but congress did not pay him for years, but insisted that he owed them 1000 pounds, so he was besieged by all of these things and had decided to approach the british. i don't have time to go into his treatment. he had planned to allow the british to take west point, where he had become commander of

west point, and this was found out. the british intelligence officer john andre, who had made arrangements to talk with arnold about the plans, was caught on his way back to british lines with the plans stuck in his boot. he was cornered by three men, who basically were probably bandits waiting for rich people to come by, but when they had him take off his boots, they realized he was a spy, probably, and took him to the nearest military headquarters, where he ended up being tried as a spy because he was not wearing his uniform. he was a very, very gallant man, even though he was a spymaster. everybody thought he was wonderful. he ended up being hanged, and on

the way to the gallows, the people who captured him wept as he went. he was a very sympathetic person. i should say, too, that the british never forgave washington for having done that. some years later, arnold, andre's bones were dug up and carted off to britain where they are both buried in westminster abbey and poets corner, of all places. at any rate, arnold eventually when the british left went with them. peggy, his wife, was at west point with him when this plot got discovered. she had only been there a couple of weeks with her six-month-old baby. i don't believe she knew anything about what he was about to do. it is unlikely he would have told her. she was given a choice of going into exile with arnold in new

york or going home to her family in philadelphia, and she decided to go home to her family. i am sure that if she was guilty, she would never have done that. that was extraordinarily dangerous to do. they were keen to hang people in philadelphia for treason. she wanted to stay with her family, but the council in philadelphia did not want anyone connected with arnold getting information of any sort back and forth, so they insisted she go into exile. her father took her -- she was his favorite child -- took her up to new york to go into exile, and i don't think he ever saw her again. when the war was over, she and arnold were evacuated to london, and that is where they stayed the rest of their lives. their only monument to arnold is this boot that was erected actually by someone who served

an officer in the civil war. it is on the battlefield at saratoga. it is of arnold's leg that was shattered during the battle of saratoga. there is no name on it, but on the back, it says in memory of the most brilliant soldier of the continental army who was desperately wounded on the spot. this was october 1777. meantg for his country the decisive battle of the american revolution, and for himself the rank of major general. he, obviously, made a terrible decision in siding with the british, and all of the things he had done before to support the cause and secure american freedom have been lost in the memory of this terrible treason. there is a stained glass window that this is a picture of that was erected by a resident of new jersey, not long ago.

in the london church, where arnold and his wife are buried, it tactfully says that you can -- tactfully says that you can , see the british flags and american flags, and it very diplomatically says on it, "the two nations he served in turn in the years of their enemity have united in this memorial as a token of their enduring friendship." ok. thank you very much. [applause] >> we are ready for questions. where's kelly? anyway, questions, bill?

bill: you told us that arnold was very brave for the u.s., but yet, he was a traitor. he went over and lived in britain for so long. why didn't we go after him? why didn't the u.s. go after him and dispose of him? why did we allow that? dr. malcolm: we did try. washington had a price on his head. before the british left, arnold was in new york and led a couple of british campaigns, one in virginia, actually, and one in connecticut. and there was a price on his head and people who were after him, but they were never able to capture him. washington was unwilling to release andre in exchange for arnold, which is what the officer, clinton, would have done. there was some sense that the british were quite annoyed.

i mean arnold -- they got arnold. he escaped and went to them, but andre, who they cared about a lots more, was captured. and maybe arnold would have been willing to be traded, but the british were unwilling to do that. then, of course, once the british left and went back home, there was not any chance of that, so arnold lived the rest of his life in britain, and he volunteered to serve in the british army later, but they did not accept him. he came home to peggy and he said, they will not let me die a soldier's death. but that is a good question about -- >> other questions? we have one here. >> were you surprised with what

you found out about benedict arnold when you did the research? dr. malcolm: i really was. i was surprised at the amazing ability of the man. he had never had any special military training, and yet, he was just a brilliant officer and leader and had that kind of charisma that made people want to follow him, but he was also one who would not tolerate fools, so he had a string of enemies. the other thing i found surprising was this division within the patriot side of people who are more radical and people who are more moderate. they actually had a shoot out in philadelphia. that amazed me. i had no notion of that. >> in plain view, americans are being assigned british royalty positions.

in lieu of that, isn't it hypocritical for america to keep calling benedict arnold a traitor? dr. malcolm: well, i thought it was very diplomatic on that stained window to say he served each country in turn. it is strange that we think of the people who rebelled against britain as patriots, but basically, they were all traitors to britain. i guess it was franklin who said if we don't hang together, we should all be hanged separately. it was really dangerous to have taken on britain, so i think, you know, he was a traitor to the side that won. if britain had won the war, or if we had negotiated, which is what a lot of people hoped, he might've been considered a hero. he chose wrong.

he had spent all this time and sacrificed his fortune and his health and everything, all his property was taken. he could never go home. it was really sad. i called the book "the tragedy of benedict arnold" because i really believe it is a tragedy. >> when he decided to go to the british, did he do so because he thought the british were going to win the war at that point in time? dr. malcolm: i think that might have been part of it. i think, basically, he was disgusted with the way he had been treated, and, at the end of it, they still insisted he owed them 1000 pounds, which he did not have the money to pay. his father went bankrupt and was a debtor, which was terrible. he felt he was not being respected, and it meant a great deal to him, reputation and honor, and honor was one of the most key things for gentlemen of

that time period, and, in some ways, is still terribly important, so i think he felt dishonored about that. and the british were saying, -- saying they actually sent a commission, promising the americans everything they had asked for, except independence. saying we will give you all of this. if you keep fighting, you might not win anyway. at the end of the day, you'll have all these things and spare yourself more bloodshed, and that make some kind of sense, that people will stop fighting. most of the people who started the war thought it would end quickly, and it didn't. they got quite distraught, and very few people wanted to serve in the military, and congress was not paying them. there was a lot of reason to be dispirited, and it would have saved lives if they had some kind of agreement. so, you know, thinking about it, the monday morning quarterback,

it made some kind of sense. but it was a real shock and particularly since it had been -- since he had been such a hero, it was a terrible shock. >> you touched on this. i was wondering what you think of the portrayal of benedict arnold in the series, "turn." dr. malcolm: i have to confess i have not watched it because i am a historian and i get quite upset about things that are not historically accurate, but i have heard. i know that whole story about peggy is not true, and of course, i gathered that she is supposedly partly responsible for his treason. the things they say about him don't make sense. that if you were self-serving and greedy, why would you risk your life time and again for the cause? so there had to be more to it, but i guess i should watch that and then i can speak more on it. >> thank you so much for your comments. i was wondering if you could

address benedict arnold's relationship with freemasonry, as he was a mason here in fredericksburg. i have been a mason almost 40 years and we talk about him in our lodges. dr. malcolm: oh really? >> yeah. they are not even supposed to mention his name in a masonic lodge. i wonder how arnold would have reconciled his decision. could you tell me a little bit about his masonic history and how it related to his decision to do what he did?

dr. malcolm: that is a very interesting question because he set up his business in new haven, and that was one of the earlier places in connecticut that had a masonic lodge, and it was very prestigious to be a part of that. and he was nominated to be a mason, so he was a very respectable member of the community, and i was impressed by the fact that he was a young man with a family background that was clouded by his father having been a drunkard and a debtor, and yet he had done so much to build up his family that they made him a mason, so i thought that was really surprising. i don't know more about the masons than that, but i thought that meant that people regarded him as a very respectable, enterprising young man. >> how did he make a living after he left? for england. dr. malcolm: he got a pension from the crown. peggy got a pension from the crown. he also tried -- he had three sons in connecticut. his wife died in 1776, so peggy

was his second wife, and he had more children with her, and he was constantly trying to provide for his children. so he went to canada several times and set up a business there, for his sons, which wasn't too successful, but he spent a lot of time trying to make ends meet, and, particularly, to do something for his children, and i think that is why so many of his sons ended up in the military. that was a sort of respectable and kind of a family business at that point, but he had a lot of trouble worrying and ended up living in humble circumstances. >> you tell how, in new haven in the early years, one of his family was going to turn him in for smuggling, and they did the vigilante thing.

how common was that and how was that accepted by the community to go in and run the guy out of town and beat him up? dr. malcolm: very knowledgeable. i think that most of the americans were happy to live with the smugglers. the goods were cheaper. john hancock was a famous smuggler. juries that tried smugglers, american juries almost always found them innocent, and in fact, that was why the british began to try americans for smuggling in london because they did not want to try them before american juries. there was no way you were going to convict anybody. so there was a general connivance with this kind of thing. you know, so i don't think people minded too much. they resented this guy telling about the smuggling.

>> you mentioned that they went back to england. he then joined the british army and invasions in connecticut and virginia, which is true. my question is, was this part of the west point deal, that he turns over west point and goes to britain to become an officer against the americans or did it just turn out that way? dr. malcolm: those two campaigns were while the british were still in control in new york. he had wanted to serve as an officer in the british army, so it was part of the deal, as it were. the british were very cagey about what they were going to do for him. he was not a field officer for a while because of his serious

injury, and they kept saying, don't worry. we will take care of you. he knew that as soon as he went to the british that he was going to lose all of his property, everything. his property in pennsylvania and in connecticut, and so he really needed to have some kind of position, and he wanted a military position and so it was part of the arrangement. then he was on, had these two short campaigns, one in connecticut and one in virginia. one of which had jefferson fleeing from this area. >> other questions? last chance. one more. >> perhaps there is a lesson in the motivations that superior commanders have. have you noticed that the plot of the iliad follows the story of benedict arnold so closely? the center of which is a woman.

[laughter] dr. malcolm: yes, helen. i had not noticed that, but that is interesting. yeah, i don't think a woman was so central to this one, actually, but it makes it exciting to think that. peggy was actually faithful and stayed with him, though not very happy. she came back to the u.s. once -- once, years later to see her , friends and family in philadelphia, but it was very sad because most people didn't want anything to do with her, so she just went back to london. >> on that classical note, and before we say thank you again to professor malcolm, let me tell you what is coming up thursday this week. doug, if you will put it up there, we will take a look. it is a look at jane goodall by her primary biographer. dale peterson is here thursday.

i hope you will be there for that. -- here for that. with that, we will say thank you to professor malcolm. [applause] dr. malcolm: thank you very much for being such a wonderful audience. great questions. thank you. announcer: you are watching american history tv. onhours of programming american history, every weekend on c-span3. follow us on twitter @cspanhi story to keep up with the latest history news. quarstein ishn

director emeritus of the uss monitor center. he discusses the monitor's battle against the css virginia in march of 1862. he also talks about the thinking -- sinking of the monitor off of north carolina, and details recovery efforts in the this 1970's. talk was part of a daylong seminar hosted by longwood university. >> without further ado, let me introduce our first speaker, mr. john quarstein, who many of you know. he's an award-winning historian. the brochures are in lobby. he is the director emeritus of the u.s. monitor center and the