1972. next, he talks about working on the apollo missions and shares what he and his team learned about the moon. ththe center for earth and planetary studies at the smithsonian's national air and space museum hosted this 90 minute talk. >> good evening. the museumla with center for earth and planetary studies. i'm pleased to have dr. farouk el-baz, who will be talking to us about his experiences as an eyewitness to the planning and implementation of the apollo program. we will start tonight with an informal question and answer session. the purpose is so you can get to know him a little bit, learned about him, and his career in

science beyond apollo. we have one rule. those of you who have been to these lectures know that. you can only ask questions that do not relate to the topic of his lecture tonight. we don't want to jump ahead on it. there will be time for those questions after. off then open the floor to your questions. can you tell us about what drew you to geology as a career? mr. el-baz: i was in primary school and high school a member of the boy scouts. i loved going with the boy scouts to the mountains on the east side of the city. i became very interested in nature and types of rocks, things that boy scouts would

encounter in the east of the city. not knowing what they were or how they were made, but they had a museum in a shoebox. a lot of your research after your work with apollo i think related to desert research? after the apollo lunar program, you were principal investigator for earth observations and photography on the apollo test project. you would be looking at the desert from space. did they give you a new perspective or view of the desert? mr. el-baz: a new perspective. this was the time where i hired you and began to think about since we are going to have a

spacecraft rotating around earth , and we can take pictures of the earth the way we had taken pictures of the moon, where would we emphasize this and how often should we take the pictures? of what? of how? what kind of camera? all of that. out, the mission would cover a great deal of the deserts of the earth. began to emphasize photography of the desert. i was invited to go back to egypt. they wanted me to emphasize photography of the western desert.

after all of the political stuff with israel, he wanted the rest to be in egypt. i began to concentrate my withrch on the earth, emphasis on the egyptian desert to see where we would do development if we can do something about using the desert for mankind. now for your questions. >> when was the first time you saw that moon through a telescope? the early days of my life, i was doing a program. geologistf mine, the geologyision of astra

-- astra geology. he had been doing all the mapping of the moon based on visions from a telescope. i did only look at the moon from the satellite images. said we can do a great deal looking through a telescope. i went to a telescope in flagstaff, arizona and began to look at it. that was my first time to see it. in the middle of my mapping of the moon, we got to look at it through a telescope. >> based on not only your work, but the contributions you made

in egypt, it fascinates me. will you ever sit down and write an autobiography? you have done some very fascinating work, are you ever going to sit down and write an autobiography? mr. el-baz: my wife keeps asking me that question. yes, i am writing. there will be 16 chapters. it will be the first about the moon and training astronauts, all of that in addition to the beginning of looking at the earth from space. your daughter is making a film, as well? that will be very interesting to see. my name is mary. it is very nice to meet you. studies ofmy

astronauts going to the moon and seeing the earth from a whole new perspective. how did your research, particularly that you just spoke of, give you a new perspective of looking at the earth through the studies you have done? mr. el-baz: believe it or not, we were all absolutely stunned inh the picture of the earth the distance. we had been planning the lunar photography so hard and looking at the moon.

while there, they can see the earth. that was outstanding. view,hey came upon this they were absolutely floored. they ran for the camera. the camera was the block. we had no plan for it. they had to run to open the magnificentch that view. they were absolutely stunned. it was really a very interesting thing. when you are concentrating, so focused on what the job is, which was going to the moon. mission before the landing. it would go over places we may land on. let's get pictures of the landing sites very carefully. concentrating all of our thoughts on this, we never thought about that we can be up

in the sky. >> some of your work with apollo series.atized in an hbo there was a segment, i think it was called "the brain of farouk el-baz." can you tell us what it is like to have an actor play you on tv? >mr. el-baz: i was actually -- mr. el-baz: i was actually stunned. my assistant was a boy at the time, came to help me. he said i had to listen to a message. you have to come and sit. i said from who? he said you have to come and listen. , the person was supposed to play me in a movie.

that's when i first heard about it. that was doneng without my knowledge whatsoever. it is something they wanted to emphasize in one of the segments designed.anks had he wanted to emphasize the science of apollo and elected 2 people. one about the training of astronauts and visualizing from orbit, the second was about training the guys that were going to go collect moon rocks. my case had taken half of the time. without my knowledge, i have nothing to do with it.

[indiscernible] aboutave a question information about the minerals on the moon. use -- when we .ry to discover minerals >> will we be able to use -- some of the technologies that we have used to measure minerals on the moon from orbit? will we be able to do that on mars? the dark places on the moon, the rocks that make the shape of the face of the man on the month, are all made of volcanic salt. it has a great deal of titanium. up to 11%.

on earth, when we find percentage of rock that have between 4% and 7%, it's a big source. a very good ore for titanium. it would be costly to go to the moon to get that and come back. mars is concerned, we don't know the chemical composition yet. on the moon, yes, there are rocks that can be economically viable. it will be expensive to bring in unless we produce the titanium on-site. on mars, we do not know this yet. folkshave a lot of wanting to get into the theater. can i ask you to move to the center of your row so we can get as many people as possible from the overflow area?

thank you very much. [indiscernible] >> are you aware of any of the research about what the ancient egyptians thought of the moon? mr. el-baz: the ancient twotians ahead deities. the moon was one of them. of the earth and the moon was significant in the minds of the ancient egyptians. the exacted out

rotation of the earth around the sun. they figured out the time of the equinox, to the extent that in one of the temples of rumsey's the great, it would hit the face inside the temple twice a year. prescribed times, they learned exactly where the sun is, how far it moves, when the moon comes, and the changes to the shape of the moon, so this was part of their religion experience. as well as the natural experience. [indiscernible] >> over time, did you notice any

changes in the earth's deserts? mr. el-baz: huge changes. the desert was not like that before. the north african desert, including a great deal of india and parts of china, were not deserts before at all. africa, we of north are much closer to the equator then today. northward, andg belt.g away from the the for certain this has been the case. anthe case of india, it was island. it moved northward and hit asia. this is how the himalayas

formed. africa is the same thing. west asia, -- europe, it formed the alps. the conditions of environment were different. millions of years. could you talk about how you came to be selected as a nasa scientist? i think that breaks our rule. we will hear about that in the lecture. >> if you can comfortably live on any planet other than earth, where and why? mars, because i know a great deal about the desert.

[indiscernible] >> have you read the trilogy about mars by kim stanley robinson? what did you think of the depiction of mars? mr. el-baz: interesting and lively. a very good description for now. famous quote by one of the astronauts that refers to you as king. i was wondering how you got that nickname. currently ae is i'm student in geology and was wondering if you had advice? there is a transcript from apollo 16 where you are referred to as the king.

the question is how did you get that nickname? mr. el-baz: first of all, that came in from egypt. my name is farouk. some didn't know how to pronounce it. difficult. of to them, they all remember king farouk in egypt. me they just called e king. >> do you have advice for students wanting to join planetary urology? mr. el-baz: absolutely -- mr. el-baz: absolutely. they did very well in planetary geology. >> what is the best book on geology?

mr. el-baz: in general were on the moon? >> either, both. mr. el-baz: the best book on the moon is "moon rock." book on geology in general is -- many of the books in universities are really good. there is not one that stands out as number one or the best. geology is a very friendly topic. it really explains the mountains, valleys, there are no really bad books on geology. >> my father worked with you on the apollo program. he held you in very high regard. i remember ofngs

that time is you were all building a body of knowledge for the benefit of mankind. nowwondering what you think of some of the commercial applications of all of this information in the satellite program, with the exception of , the satellites, the treasure hunting, other uses? >> the question revolves around the commercial uses of the technology that came out of the apollo program? i think your father for bringing in such a wonderful daughter. i wanted to say that no matter what the program came out for, there had to be a summary that was delivered to nasa headquarters and the office of technology euthanization.

that office published results of all research, work that was done. it was released to the public so any person, company, or otherwise, can utilize that for the economy. that was a very good thing to have the results of research published for use by the population. what do we know about the dark side of the moon compared to the light side? mr. el-baz: he said the dark side. i wanted to say something, there is no dark side. is in lock. of theter of gravity

moon is moved forward by two kilometers. the moon cannot rotate. it is locked. it is like a man and wife. when the earth is moving this way, the moon is moving this way. when the sun is here, this side of the moon is hit by the sun. when the moon moves out this way, this side is hit by the sun. there is no dark side. that side, which is the far side, we never see because the moon is in lock. >> is there a difference between the size, in terms of geology or anything else?

because the moon is in lock with the earth, the center of gravity is 2 kilometers further. a great deal of action came on that side facing the earth a lot more than the far side. the far side doesn't have all of the things we see that make the face of the man in the moon. very few black spots. because of the gravitational potential, there is a push where the near side has more of the black areas, volcanic rock, then the first side. there is a difference in composition. how did you decide to establish the center for earth and planetary studies here at the national air and space

museum when you could have gone anywhere and done anything you wanted? mr. el-baz: very good question. we were very busy. in december of 1972, finishing up with apollo 17. it was the very last mission for the moon. we never thought of what we would do after apollo. no matter what you did, you're never going to get something like the apollo job. no matter what it is. we never thought about it, we never connived about it. company that for a was working for nasa headquarters. we were first on the apollo program by design. there was not going to be anything like it.

therefore, there was no discussion of what it is we were going to do. of 1972 was the end of the apollo 17 mission. apollo apollo 14 command pilot was a good friend of mine. there was no need for that kind of support of nasa headquarters. i said i don't know. i will go somewhere else. he was talking about going to the smithsonian. asked him to set up a operation. i told him if he wanted to do it

right, to call you. why don't you talk to him tomorrow? i did. he said comeand tomorrow and we will talk about it. be the i was going to head of the national air and space museum. the smithsonian director asked me to think about establishing a finance operation. why don't you come and do it, i know you will do it well? i finished with nasa , i wentters in december to him on january 1. they began to think about what they would do. get the people to do their jobs, and here they are. >> thank you very much. thank you all for your questions.

now, we will move along to the next part of our program. mr. el-baz: i thought that was very interesting. evening again. i'm priscilla strain with the museum center for earth and planetary studies. i'd like to welcome you to the first lecture in this series. we have a great lineup this year. will cover lunar exploration from the past, the present, and the future.

program, jump into our i would like to first give you a brief update on a major project we are working on here at the ourum in order to transform entire museum building on the mall. let's run the video. ♪ >> it begins with a spark. the passion for air and space. >> it looked better on you,

anyway. grow,t passion can lighting the way forward for a lifetime. ♪ >> and now, with the monumental transformation of the smithsonian's national air and space museum, this place has ignited generations of imaginations, will become completely reimagined.

inside and out. this museum can be even more of what it has always been, a place that gives life to a remarkable past. and gives rise to the people who make history tomorrow. join us in the mission to transform the national air and space museum. together we will ignite tomorrow. as you can see from the video, this project is all about inspiring our visitors to

achieve the next great step in aviation and space travel. it is a seven-year project. everyone of our exhibit galleries will be either updated or completely redone. worry, we are staying open the whole time. you will still be able to come and visit and see our exhibit. even if you see lots of fencing and cranes. we will still be telling the stories of air and space, like the ones we are going to hear tonight. this program tonight is made possible through the very generous support of aerojet rocketdyne and united luncheon alliance. we have air representatives in the audience tonight. please join me in thanking them for their wonderful support. [laughter]

[applause] -- [applause] >> i am very pleased to welcome dr. farouk el-baz back to the museum. is the founding director of the center for earth and planetary studies here at the museum. my very first supervisor here. that is many more years ago then i am going to admit to you. his first association with apollo was at balcom. inasa, advising communications planning. when he was there, he became supervisor of lunar science planning and operations. his many contributions to apollo included serving as secretary of the landing site selection community, sensible investigator of visual operations and photography, and chairman of the astronaut training group of the apollo photo team. when the apollo program ended,

he came over here to the museum and established the center for earth and planetary studies, which remains a thriving science research organization with over 10 scientists to study the terrestrial planets and the moons of the outer solar system, and who are on the science teams of many nasa programs past and present. center, hes at the was also principal investigator for earth observations and photography on the apollo test project. /u.s. mission, often called the handshake in space. he also served as science advisor to president hammerson. of egypt. boston and moved to recently retired from there as the founding director of the center.

i look in the audience, i'm very pleased to see a lot of young people here. for those of us who were around during the apollo days, it was an exciting time that was really unlike any other. i think it's a real peter lynch for us to -- privileged to hear from those like our speaker, who were in the thick of it and somehow it came to be. please join me in welcoming farouk el-baz. [applause] mr. el-baz: thank you very much. i'm very proud of you and what you have done, and what you are doing. stay there. keep it up. that itally amazing happened in the early 60's, and what developed. i would like to do this through

a series of photographs. project them and talk about them. we go through the whole process of the apollo missions to the moon, what happened, and what my role was in the whole thing. one of the things i would like to emphasize is the fact that interests of human beings on the moon was thousands of years. we talked about the fact that ,ncient egyptians had gods knew what the shape of the moon was, the position, it was significant to them. hasughout history, the moon had a vision in the human mind. the first time we got some view maphe moon, next is the

made by galileo. dreamed the very first telescope to see the moon. that's when he saw things that varied. in addition to the black areas, he saw some high ground. he began to name the features of the moon. he called the flat black areas maria, because they are like the seas. the bright areas he called terra, meaning the land. he imagined it to be like the earth. he picked up the mountain region and called them the alps. mountains after mountains. first few of the

features of the moon in 1610. that's when galileo looked through his telescope to see these features of the moon. 250 years later, joe byrne thought about sending men to the moon. it was fascinating is there would -- they would be training men to go to the moon. it looked like this. low and behold, it looks very much like the command module. 100 years later, we have something different from -- something new, but certainly look very much like that. came that.

sending missions to the modem with exactly the same three men looks little capture that like it. picture to rocco patrol, he said with must have all thought of that when we were young. the reason for the huge success , his name isis day jim webb, he was the first nasa administrator. is the one that kind of and workforce,ry and the nasa way of doing things. petrone aboutocco how jim webb dealt with his

people, particularly the bosses of his people. jim webb collected us all, he you haveten here, become supervisors, from now on, you don't do any work." said "you don't do any work, because your job from this day forward is to make sure that each and every man that works for you, there were no women, you have to make sure that you can get every man that works for do more than what they think they are capable of doing." only then we will make it to the moon. if every man does what he thinks

he will do, he fails. if every man that works for you, if you can encourage them, push them to get to do more than what they think they are capable of doing, then we will make it to the moon. can helphat statement any organization anywhere in the world. what is a supervisor's job. to make sure that happens, we're lucky to have this gentleman, a rocket scientist that came from germany. think god he joined the american when hefter he escaped knew america was winning the second world war. he became the man to design the spacecraft. he is the one behind the design of the saturn five rocket, which

allowed the mission to the moon to succeed as it did. was thed pillar of nasa apollo program director, rocco petrone. anco was a very tough guy,a who worked in m.i.t.. he worked very hard. he was one man to know how to do things. once after we left ,he program, after we left nasa "when we were working on the , the threeions me and saide to see egyptian toallow an

?this guy can be a plant. the soviets are all over egypt. .he soviets could have sent him he may be a plant." "i did not put him ownthis job, it was his fellow that elected him secretary of the committee. don't tell me where he came from. give me one thing he did wrong and i will throw him out the window with my own hand." then they left. you thati never told story so it would not affect your performance."

the beauty of the mind. man that really had his finger on every little speck of the apollo program. guysuld say the houston are claiming something they cannot do right, and there would be delays. he goes down to houston to find out the problem. he would go down and find out exactly what the story was. some guy has six people, but his boss wants him on this. it results in a delay or something. he goes back to washington and tells the story. he said call this number. he calls this engineer in houston. they say hey, he tells me you're

doing a good job. -- this is the one thing you are going to do, get your people, the home apollo stands on one foot until you fix this job. do it, and if you need help, call me. here is my home number." the other guys were trembling. the apollo program director was calling him from washington. he had never spoke to him. inwould go and do that job two days and fix it instantly. the sign that was vastly different from anything i had ever seen. i have never seen it since. these people were like that. they knew how to encourage the

workforce. the workforce was very young. we were down in apollo 11 time, i was talking to astronauts. we said they look very young. we went to see the change of the people. and asked an astronaut hold they were. we got the numbers. we found out that the median average age of people running the apollo missions during the critical mission, was 26 years old. unreal. pushncourage them and them, give them positivity, they feel good. is one of them relieved he is running the mission. keep them thinking this way.

keep pushing them. they will do wonders. things done before the apollo mission. there was a ranger program. they sent spacecraft to hit the surface of the moon and see how the impact of something like this would go. of the things we wanted to of theget pictures approach of this little thing to impact the moon so we can see details of the features of the moon as the rocket approaches. the second program was called the surveyor program. --e wanted to make certain we wanted to make certain that the spacecraft could actually land. there were so many people, including very loud scientist, that said because of a continued

bombardment by meteorites, the mood would be colored by a series -- layer of dust. it would just disappear into the dust. them told me to write president -- letters to the president, anyone who would read, and he would have a position at the university. he has a name. people were terrified. they questioned our intellect about the fact that we thought the moon was rocky and would withstand everything. there was an uncertainty to it. there is something that can be sent from the earth and land on the moon, and not disappear in the dust. tore were several missions land on the surface of the moon.

the surface of the moon is hard enough to land. there are rocks that can stand on the surface. the last item was the lunar orbiter. that program was the most significant of all. we sent something to go to the moon and rotate around to take pictures and relay them. through ourwas done laboratory. we have here tom young. he was at langley research center. he was responsible for getting us together to select a site for lunar orbiter missions. the lunar orbiter brought us so many photographs we can look at and figure out exactly what it is. we could figure where to land the apollo missions one by one based on the photographs.

the images of the lunar orbiter allows us to grab much of the near side of the moon as we possibly can. the high ground and maria. we can think about what the features of the moon might be. missions, there was a great deal of discussion about what the surface of the moon may be, whether the craters were volcanic in origin, or impact in origin. volcanic meaning an erupting volcano. the longer around it would form these dark rocks and form the black areas of the moon. was -- mosts this

of these traders were due -- these craters were due to the impacts of meteorites. the direction of the landing sites would be based on all of these ideas of where to go. the one man responsible for much of the logical mapping surface of the moon and the idea that most of the large craters were due to the impact of meteorites, was john joe shoemaker. he had the idea that he called the astra geology division. it is based in flagstaff, arizona. that's near an interest -- a meteorite impact crater. crater on the earth and it is the result of a meteorite impact, the stuff around the rim will be there.

the farther away, the smaller the blocks. that became a very interesting geological tool for us when we selected landing sites on the moon. we would take the crater diameter and go two diameters away and say i am that far away from the rim. meaning i am going to be away from all of the rubble due to the impact. knowing that most of these craters are meteorite impacts. from to look at the moon orbit. one of the most important things of the apollo mission to the moon where the astronauts that would remain in orbit around the moon would take all kinds of photographs.

of they first picture earth we see of the moon from apollo 8 was something we never expected. they saw the view and said this is it, they ran out to get the camera to take a photograph. that one picture became the title page of the apollo program. is aowed that the earth planet, a beautiful planet, and it is one little thing. astronauts said we don't see any boundaries, we don't see the countries, wen don't see such and such, it is all the same place. of became -- it's sort of became the call for an inventive movement in 1960. then they spoke elegantly.

it just became a significant view of the earth as seen from the moon. -- i don't know what that is -- that's another talk. [laughter] the moon, we began to look at the different features. we wanted to certainly take as many photographs of the surface in detail so we can use these photographs for the selection of landing sites as much as we can possibly apply, knowing that we think about the rocky miss of the surface and get away from rough territory. the things we realized, the fact from thehave the view

command module that would allow to select photographs -- landing sites property properly. during the apollo 11 mission, we selected a seven kilometer area where we would know for sure there was absolutely flat areas. we took the best one to them. it was supposed to be directed toward that one. they came down as prescribed. lo and behold, it was not going where they thought it was going. it was going to land over a small crater with a lot of blocks in it. strachan had to maneuver by hand

-- neil armstrong had to maneuver by hand. as therds, we realized command module was separated --m the lander, the lander there was increased velocity. -- we thoughtdule the landing site would be it, as the lender came in, it came further down seven kilometers and was going to land in the middle of a crater. neil armstrong had to manually move it away from it to save the mission. they started going to walk on the moon. one of the first things we asked them to do was take a picture of the footprint. we wanted to know the thickness

of the fine-grained areas, how much he ways and how much he it.d sink in the thing, the depth of this which means the grain size of all of the dust material on the surface of the moon. came the training of astronauts and looking at the moon from orbit, in addition to the fact of astronauts on the surface describing the surface as they walk and take samples. we wanted to have more discussion of what is it they can see from orbit. inwas the vision help selecting after the mission.

talking to the command module 13, thisapollo mission became a very important thing to get correctly and do right. missions up on the 20. 20 missions to go to the room. they were very significant to do so. we will take the apollo -- theaphs and show them new guys, what all of these were, in addition to the fact that some of the information is coming in from looking -- describing the surface material and the rock. we had additional knowledge from the observations.

the apollo 15 mission. al was a great observer. he wanted to do it right. he wanted to absorb as much as he possibly can. he became one of the best observers. while he was on the apollo 13 mission, i asked him to look at a photograph. he described it nicely. he said there were volcanic eruptions. addition, younger volcanic, they are darker looking. petrone from a distance pointed and came down to say "your student may have picked out a landing site." he knew exactly what it means. coneiscussing cinder

looking things that we saw near flagstaff, arizona. this kind of thing where maybe it will be a push for one of the missions. it was the site for apollo mission 17. apollo command module observations were very important. in addition to the fact that we had cameras, one metric camera to take the mass of the moon, and one panoramic camera that tok high-resolution pictures see details down to a few meters of the surface of the moon. apollo 16 came. this was the one place on the moon we selected that was not exactly what we thought it would be. we selected a place near the center part of the moon where there were all kinds of hills. as built up byem

volcanic action, high lands. loved it.uarters a lot of that. very different from the volcanic. crew.omes the apollo 16 we are looking at -- from some impact crater. very different from what we thought. i think we may have -- i looked at him and said royally.

so the guy i selected, very was exactly like what we got from apollo 11. apollo 14. apollo 15. that was the one we did not do right. the apollo 17 mission proved the rover we had taken was useful. apollo 17 was useful to allow us to go to the mountain range. another look at the completely different crater. it was the use of the rover that was wonderful. it allowed astronauts to drive

away for seven kilometers. they were not a limitation of the rope. it was a limitation of the oxygen tank. kaput,oxygen tank goes , twothey can actually astronauts can breathe oxygen from one tank. it will take them up to seven kilometers of walking and that is it. the jeep could not take them further than seven kilometers. placed on limitations the human aspect, the human need. the apollo 17 mission, we were

able to train them with images taken by apollo 15. we had fabulous cameras. see throughcould apollo 17. it tracked -- the track was close to the all apollo 15 track. the crew could use them. we were looking at these images on this machine using the training program. the apollo 15 mission, because of the feasibility of the rover, as far as regions away from them, they could collect a rock. jack schmidt picking up a piece of this huge block that fell from high up on the mountain. we knew a piece of rock would be different from the composition,

compositionally from the surface of the moon. it allowed as much variety as possible. next. the tracks of the rover will be there forever. is no wind, there is no rain. they will be here on the moon forever. we will know what mess up we did. they will be recorded forever. next. rocks, the insured the rock materials of the moon were very much like those of the earth. there are some differences chemically. some concentrations of elements that are precious elements may be. higher concentrations of sodium and lithium and some elements

very different from the concentrations on the earth. recently, the rocks are like the earth material. close to the way they formed on the earth. the geological processes on earth, most like he will function on all the planetary areas. because of the size, the distance from the sun. the original composition. whatever we do, in geology, we consistently apply towards the planetary bodies. next. from what we see and a microscope. we see the same pattern of rocks on earth. then we came here to the smithsonian institution. one of the first things we did was to think about apollo.

to all of then kinds of things we sought talked the scientific material we saw, what did we do? for a movieript called the man in the moon remembered. we did not have much space to talk about the science. saturn five. we were there, they took most of the space. the little movie of the man in the moon remembers. summarizing the history of the earth and the moon were roaming around and they from some material that emanated from the sun. -- as it hardened, there were pieces that hit it.

hit it would form this thing which is a crater. craters like that formed the feast of the man in the moon. all kinds of variations happen later on. they think i am proud of we were able to get a piece of the moon people could touch. i wanted to see that because of the fact in my culture, there is something called -- there is a meter right assigned from god that people could touch when they go from their pilgrimage. that affects people of the islamic faith tremendously. if you have a piece of the moon, young kids could touch, it can

affect them. we discussed it. it fromsaid, you go get houston. for scientists to study. they would say, are you out of your mind. it took me 10 months. to discuss with them. of the moon? piece someone is going to break it and take it. what do we do after that? somebody will come back and tell me i can sell the pieces. there is a piece of the meter rate in arabia that people

touch. 7 million people touch it every year. it is still there. it is protected by just one bedouin with a sword next to it. john adams, a geologist said, we will give you a piece. after the museum opened, one of the most significant things happen to me is when i see young kids coming to look at it. a boy and his brother touching it. an old woman that had difficulty walking. she said, i have been waiting for this all my life.

some things may be whole effort, going to get that piece of the moon. next. there are all kinds of little things like this that made a huge difference. several missions afterwards. the features of the back of the moon. the far side of the moon. there are no features of the man in the moon. dark folk can the there are all kinds of things for the japanese mission. the southern region of the moon. we know it may be icewater in the southern region of the moon. it is in shadow all the time. if there is water, it is going to be frozen. next.

the last mission now is a chinese mission. rover.nese have a they move away from the spacecraft to investigate part of the far side of the moon. this will allow us to consider what the chemistry of the farsighted might be as opposed to the chemistry of the near side, if there are differences. thingsre all kinds of that are still talked about. people thinking about the potential of a mission to the moon. the potential for resource acquisition. it might behe fact the first step toward going toward mars.

the chief scientist for nasa is with us today. we need to continue to look at the moon as far as its composition, it's relation to to earth. from it in can learn terms of a mission to mars. thank you very much. [applause] >> we have some time for questions. >> i love the story about how the team was a strikeout. i have not heard that before. given it was probably planned, what is the flight you wish we

could have gone to? or where will be go next time? >> is there a site you wish you could have gone to that you are not able to go to? >> yes, it would be the farsighted. a crater. we will see what the composition of the rest of the crust was like. that is the important thing to see. what is on the backside? >> on mars there are several questions. the material itself. the terrain where you have the channel. the organic buildup.

there are three completely different types of things where you could send people get material so you can at least very different materials. >> how long were things going before president kent made his challenge? >> hownificant was that significant was that in moving things along? >> he did that as a student. i was not very knowledgeable. as far as the nasa people were concerned, there was no way we would be able to do that. >> do we have a question from the overflow?

robotic versus human exploration? have thebotics information that is dry. maybe we can term -- interpret some of that. the human aspects adds a great deal. the way it is and all of these kinds of things without human beings, the apollo would not have been the same. we have three different programs. survey, ranger. nobody knows about it.

let's send the machine over there and look at something. ok, next. human beings going in there and talking about it, endangering themselves. it is another story altogether. >> in the apollo 16, you identified a new crater on the far side of the moon. he proposed the name after education king. they decided to name a smaller crater on the edge of that one. what did you think? >> that is fine. apollo 16, you identified a crater on the far side of the moon you proposed to name after neco. name on aou put the smaller crater. you have any thoughts on that?

didn't really matter at all. the idea was recognizing this and that person. that person was recognized only in my view because of the fact he was a king of egypt. he was an individual himself. land wasought his surrounded by water on the old side. crewnt the general with a he said, you go from the seat and come back from that one. to gok him three years all around africa. stopping to get food and water. they didn't know where they were . what this land was? of africa in map

ancient egyptian time. i was flabbergasted. required a salute so put him on the moon. flax was the surveyor program classified at the time? >> none of the nasa programs were written classified. nasser could not work on classified things. we were free to talk about any of this. >> any thoughts as far as ?ngaging the public more had they talked to people, journalists while they are on

the moon. maybe you get less rocks but people are more engaged. >> you have any thoughts on how the apollo program could have promoted itself to the public better so the later missions and might not have been canceled if higher?nterest was >> it was very difficult to get the apollo astronauts to talk at all. none of them were really public relations students. none of them have the facility to do this beautifully. that provedly one to be good in later times. the apollo 15 crew. questions fromy

the overflow? ok. is there any plan of using them? the lunar orbiting mission some deep, cavelike structures on the moon. know of any use is for those or plans for those? >> this is perfectly ok to happen in rocks formed by love of flow. there could be cavities formed by collapse or of the lava. there is no reason to believe they are otherwise made by something else.

>> it was very big. >> on the surface of the moon, the they are several hundred miles long. >> the gravitational pull affected the geology. what side of the moon would be safer? >> given the differences between the near side and the far side, which side would be safer for landing? ways.is both the only problem on the surface of the moon is the potential for a meteorite impact. if you want to stay there for a long time.

blending apollo 15 or apollo 16, in any other similar place would be definitely ok. friends. >> -- difference. >> [indiscernible] >> sorry. >> what were big surprises you found in the apollo sample? >> there were no real surprises. there is any difference, it is because of the difference of the size. in laboratories has advanced greatly. what are we finding out new when

we go back to look at the apollo rocks now? >> one of the things we was theed very strongly fact that we need to save at least half of the lunar materials untouched and lock it up. with the gold in fort knox or whatever. somebody is going to come up with ace clever method of looking at rocks. at least for 50 years. this year, nasa began to think about, how much can we release of the locked up material? just beginning to see what might be different.

>> the question i have, you are at the lunar receiving laboratory. your first thoughts. thoughtsere your first upon receipt of the first apollo sample. it is very much like the results we see on earth. it from thepits on hitting of the micrometer rights. lo and behold, it is what we thought it might be. >> that is the moon. the holy cow was before the thing. the rockets that went to the moon. the rock, we expected that.

>> one last question. >> we know each other. >> a friend of his. >> one last question. teen, did you have some special discussions with him prior to the mission? things to look for and things to do? >> did you have any special

discussions since he was the to go to the moon? for threediscussions years. certain heo make languageade sure his was clear enough. not totally geological. give us a hint of what he means about it. we expected a lot more from him. fly.ally wanted him to sad to see the one very good guy moved, but we wanted something like that. nasa has to do that.

they have a scientist, i geologists to fly to the moon. he must qualify. they have to do it. see he was good enough to prove to the world it was a good thing to do. he made antime observation that turned out to be totally wrong. >> thank you very much for a wonderful lecture. againd like to thank once our sponsors. for supporting this great program this evening. i guess it is too cloudy. the public observatory will not be open for viewing tonight. please do not forget to join us

next month on april 24 for the next lecture in the series where on the get an update science. >> thank you for all you are doing. [applause] >> american history tv is on c-span3 every weekend. all of our programs are archived on our website. in can watch lectures college classrooms, tours of historic sites, archival films, and see our schedule of upcoming programs. >> barbara bush had finally had enough.

she did not need to bite her tongue anymore. it.said she took offense at reporters were at her door asking questions about it. designed to give nancy reagan heartburn. reagan, don'tncy you ever call me again. she hung up. today bureau usa on herusan page biography of barbara bush. a matriarch. >> she said, you will never see my diaries. they are cap at the bush library. they are not available for public view. until 35 years after her death. i understood that and i thought she was unlikely to let me see her diaries. she said, you can see my diaries.

that was an incredible gift. >> sunday night at 8:00 eastern. >> next on lectures in history. at tulane university professor teaches a class about the legal history of abortion. she discusses laws in the late 19th century that originally criminalized abortion. as well as roe v. wade. and the court cases and legislation that followed that decision. her class is about an hour and 15 minutes. >> we are nearing the end of this semester. today's lecture gives us a good way to bring together a lot of the themes we have been studying all semester. today we talk about reproductive rights. for today's reading, you read about jurisprudence since roe v. wade.