african-american fighter group sent into combat during world war ii. next, from the 21st annual american veterans center conference, six tuskegee airmen appear on stage at the national archives marking the 75th anniversary of their first deployment in 1943. the world war ii veterans talk about their combat experience during world war ii and the korean war. they recall some of their most dangerous missions and what it was like to serve in a segregated military. this is about 65 minutes. so it is with great pleasure i now introduce our panel of american icons, the tuskegee airmen. the moderator of our panel is mr. ron jackson. mr. jackson is a third generation military man who's currently a tour guide at the u.s. capitol but formerly a proud paratrooper in the 82nd

airborne division. i'm from north carolina, so we're exceptionally proud of the 82nd and their actions over at fort bragg. we like to tell people we are the most military-friendly state in the nation and we work really hard to live up to that. but -- so without any further ado, mr. jackson, you're on. thank you very much. [ applause ] >> thank you, and good morning. welcome to the william g. mcallen theater. and we're here to salute american icons, the tuskegee airmen. please allow me to briefly introduce the panel, and then we'll come back and hear from our panelists and then we'll ask the field to give questions. i may recite the question a time or two just for clarity. let's first begin with the person closest to me. with the blue cap.

lieutenant colonel robert friend. next to him lieutenant colonel harold brown. lieutenant colonel george hardy. lieutenant colonel alexander jefferson. lieutenant colonel james h. harvey iii. and our closer, lieutenant colonel harry stewart. let's first begin with lieutenant colonel robert friend. he was born in columbia, south carolina. his father thought in world war i. so what we'll do is colonel friend, sir, we'll yield the floor to you and then we'll ask our friends in the audience to give you questions. so let's have a round of applause for our first panelist. [ applause ] mr. friend. so colonel friend, just give us just some brief history about you and your accounts in the military and then we'll --

>> well, i was always interested in flying. and no chances were offered me. for instance, i had a pilot's license in the late '30s because i was a part of a program the united states was doing in defense -- potential defense of itself. and i was to train people to fly airplanes as they were doing in europe. and so when it was time to go to tuskegee i was more than prepared. and i enjoyed it very much. the one thing that i would like to clarify from my personal standpoint, everybody says

tuskegee, the place where they trained the african-americans. that's the wrong way i think to look at it. the right way to look at it is that was the place where they trained people who were not white. you could be anything else. and so i went through the program and went through three wars and feel very, very fortunate to be able to be here to speak to you people and to let you know how we felt. thank you. >> thank you. [ applause ] would anyone like to ask a question of colonel friend? if so, please stand. i would like to make note given

the bio you that see on the screen and for our audience that may be streaming, if i may, a veteran of 142 combat missions with the tuskegee airmen and wingman to the unit's leader and the first airman and the first african-american junior in the air force, benjamin o. davis, jr. there's very few of us in this audience that remember 1940. would you give us just a brief history, a summary of your events in the military please, sir? >> certainly. i was born and raised in minneapolis, minnesota.

and when i was about in the sixth grade, 11 years old, i woke up one morning, and guess what? i was going to become a military fighter pilot. well, at the mention of that, my mother who looked at me and isn't it strange how your mother can look at you and say he has all this wonderful talent, when i had no talent whatsoever. but they could see things no one else could see. so i sat on that piano stool for the first ten years of my life or so. and then in the sixth grade, 11 years old i decided i was going to become a military pilot. don't ask me how, why, i don't remember seeing a movie about it. but one night i woke up and i was bit. so from that point on it was model airplanes and every book i

can fly. i remember one book in particular, texas, west point of the air. and i bet i read that book so many times i almost had it memorized. so when i was 16 years old i was a soldier and i managed to save up $35. i had my uncle take me out and i went up to a fixed base operator and said, hey, i want to take flying lessons. and they said, sure, that will get you five. well, i got to five -- you know what they look like -- well, i don't know if you do. you don't see j3s often. no more money and no more flying lessons. and of course in 1941 we know the war started.

but keep in mind during back in those days after president roosevelt decided to train those guys back in march of 1941, the first class started in july of 1941, they wanted people to have some college experience. but it didn't take long before they had just about wiped out all the other guys of college experience. and they said, hey, we'll open it for you high school kids. if you can pass the physical, the mental exam, and we'll take you michb so at 17 years of age i graduated from high school, june-42 i gebe-bopping down to the recruitment station and said i want to sign-up. sat for the exam, scored reasonably high, and i said hey i'm on my way. and they said no, no, not yet. everyone else and i'm the only guy looking like this sitting

there and there's about 100 other guys, they were all sworn into the reserve and they were obviously protected from the draft. but my paper rwork had to go to washington, d.c. the draft is going to get me before i get my chance to go fly. of course in december i was selected and i finally wound up in the military, graduating class of 1944. 19 years old, the hottest thing that ever said good morning to an airplane. do you know why they send young guys off to fight wars, how the old general kind of sit there and select all you young guys off to fight the war, you know why they do that? you guys are invincible, aren't you? nothing bad ilever happen to

you, but guess what, one day you too will also sweat it out. but i can go on and keep yakking and yakking and i don't want to take up too much time, so does anyone have any questions? now, come on, you guys rotc, you've got 10,000 questions so give me one. one question. >> the gentleman to the left. >> what is it? >> from west point. given that you lacked talent, what talent did you wish you had when you were shot down over enemy territory? >> well, i wish i had a pair of wings to fly to be honest with you. but unfortunately that was not the case. but let me tell you just a little bit about that. one of the biggest hazards of flying missions were if you were

ever hit you were always briefed to get out of the target area and rightly so. there were a bunch of people down there, but shrapnel and stuff flying all over the place. so all of a sudden you get hit, you're in your chute, can you imagine what those guys are thinking about after you just wiped out some guy's brother, the other guy's wife, and here you come floating down in a parachute. those are some very angry people, and rightly so. and to follow that up just a little bit, two more minutes is all i'll take, i was shot down on my 30th mission -- i'm just

giving you a rough time down here. i was shot down on my 30th mission and one of the unfortunate things, i did not get out of the target area. i was picked up almost immediately, brought back to a little village and i was met by 35 of the most anangriest peopl. now here i was 20 years old, looking like this, no business being up in germany and i got a mob of 35 or so people looking at me, and they wanted a piece of me. fortunately there was a good person in the crowd, a constable that came up with his rifle and prevented them from taking my life. but for a very short while those first 35 minutes or so i was

frightened to death. there wasn't a doubt in my mind i was going to die. i couldn't run, i couldn't hide, i couldn't do anything. as a matter of fact, i think i was talking to myself for a while. what are you doing to do? i don't know what i'm going to do. well, think of something, harold. that was the most frightening thing that ever happened to me because i was looking death straight in the eye. and at 20 years old, i had a whole lot of living to do. but from that point on pow camp, that was actually a safe haven really. and i'll just cut it off there. i could go on and tell you 10,000 stories, but i think you get the picture. >> thanks, sir.

>> thank you. >> for those who did not hear the exchange when he said he was shot down on his 30th mission, colonel james said welcome to the club. our next panelist is lieutenant colonel george hardy from philadelphia, pennsylvania. i don't know if he's a fan of the philadelphia eagles or not. >> yeah, i was born and raised in philadelphia and graduated from high school in 1942. i turned 17 that same month so i had to wait a year to get into the service. but in march of '43 i took the exam. and in july of '43 went to flying school in december, and

graduated september '44. after additional training i ended up going overseas, 19 years old, i had my rolls royce, but i came back after the war and i got out in '46 and went to nyu for a year and recalled '48. '48 is when racial integration started, at least the air force informed september 1947, seven months later the air force said they were going to integrate racially and truman signed the executive order in july. i went back in school, became a maintenance officer in electronics. well in '94 i graduated. racial integration had taken place in the air force, and i was assigned to the 19th bomb group on qualm.

b29 outfit. when the grand war started we flew over korea. the first mission on the 30th of june 1950 we were in the war. but there were still racial problems in those days. in may of 1950 i got a new squadron commander who wouldn't speak to me except in the line of duty because he didn't believe in racial integration. and when we went up to okinawa and started flying at the last minute he pulled me off the airplane and replaced me. he didn't want me flying in his outfit. that was the first b-49 shot down over north korea. one crew was in it, and i didn't go down with them. but anyway, i survived that period and ended up flying -- i got a new squadron commander after that. a new commander put me back on flying status so i ended up

flying 450 missions of b-29s over korea. came back to the united states. and i say i grew up in the service because from limestone i went to the institute of technology for two years and got a bs in electrical? gen earring. from there i went to japan, maintenance supervisor, army electronic maintenance squadron third bomb wing. from there i went to new york, ended up as major squadron, army electronics maintenance squadron, and my wing commander was that same officer who pulled me off the airplane in okinawa. i was with him for three years up there. and it was the best three years of my career under him the second time.

i loved working for him the second time. i love to see people change and whatnot. but i would stay with him forever but the institute of technology let me know there's a new program they wanted to put into effect. they wanted to do it right away and they didn't have time to as advertise for it and they went back to prior graduates and my name came up. went there for 16 months and ended up with a masters in systems engineering. reliability was a new field they came out and i ended up with a masters in that. so i grew up in the service. from there i got a job from the air force base and i made lieutenant colonel up there. and for 3 1/2 years i was chief of engineering and programming,

3 1/2 years i was chief of engineering and program manager for that. the first switches cut over in june of 1969. but i'd been up in -- for 5 1/2 years. and they prepared a new gun ship, 119k. they made a gun ship out of it. it was a two car airplane that carried 42 paratroopers that let them out two at a time. but they made a gun ship out of it in vietnam. and they looked for pilots that had flown that airplane. i had hundreds of hours in a 119 and i was called to active duty as a pilot and ended up going to vietnam in 1970. as a lieutenant colonel all the airplanes were at foreign operating locations. you go to thailand. i trained with a crew, but when

i went overseas they took the crew away from me. i ended up flying 70 combat missions in korea. i came back and retired in 1971. anyway i say i grew up and was educated in the service. someone was looking out over me. i never had to bail out of an airplane, and so as i say i was in someone's good graces and i thank god for that. anyway, that's just the sum total of my career. but the thing is when i retired because of my degrees i retired on a friday, and on monday they made me a job offer and i worked for them for 18 years. and i had the best of everything as far as service and i'm grateful for that. >> if we have questions for colonel harding, will someone

stand? we'll bring a microphone to you. okay, all the way up. just a second. yes, ma'am? >> good day, gentlemen. kwiem the assistant director and i do have a question for you all. in your age now, how do you stay so sharp and so witty? >> what was that question again? >> how do you stay so -- >> toushe indeed. >> age catches up with everyone, and it's catching up with us, too. >> slowly but surely.

>> any other questions? i have one for colonel harding. i mean if we could be reflective for a moment from world war ii to korea to the cuban missile crisis to vietnam, your experiences leading up to vietnam, how did they help you, sir? >> well, the thing is when i looked back to this thing with vietnam i was able to adapt to everything. but the thing is when i look at the totality of my career in world war ii they would never have anyone of african ancestry over a caucasian, but then at the end of my career in vietnam i was a commander, and all of my pilots were white. so it shows that evolution, how things went in the service. and i still meet with those guys there, still have reunions some of them. but i was 45 then, they're all at least 20 years younger than me, but i get along with them very well.

>> thank you. >> well-done. >> our fourth panelest is lieutenant commander alexander jefferson. his favorite place to vacation is in hawaii, so hopefully he'll tell us what he likes to do in hawaii. so colonel jefferson let's yield the floor to you, sir. tell us a bit of history of yourself and armed forces. >> someone asked why the hell did you go to the army? i remember 1941 world war ii was kicking out. i graduated from clark college in june '42. the draft was -- so the first

thing i did was went down to the federal building and joined. i thought they were going to send me to tuskegee, put me on a list. took me almost nine months before they called me. remember now i'm a graduate, i'm a clark college graduate, and i'm in the last class going to tuskegee of college blacks or college graduates because the army, navy, marines were grabbing black men with college degrees. the classes after me went through three months of college training detachment. i graduated in january '44. from tuskegee as a second

lieutenant, we were sent to -- air force base, flied a p-39 because the three sections of the three squadrons were the 301, the 302, and the 99th. these three squadrons of blacks were flying p-39s up and down the shores outside of italy. and my class, we were supposed to be replacements for them. and we were trained in p-39s at the air force base i will something like the march of '44, we had a two star general come

drop everything you're doing and get your behind into post theater. we were there, black and white officers mixing trying to find out what the hell's going on. all of a sudden someone said attention, and we hopped to down the aisle stood the two star general. we're looking at each other saying what the hell's going on, i don't know. he rambled on and on and on for about four, five, ten minutes and these are the words i remember. quote, gentlemaen, this is my airfield. as long as i'm in command there'll be no socialization between white and colored officers. we've been trying to get into the officers club, and he said hell no. that was thursday. saturday morning they've put us

on a train and three days later we ended up in south carolina. we were the first class to be shipped over to join the 332nd fighter group. i went into the 301st fighter squadron, and i flew 18 and 1 1/2 missions. my 18th mission i'm escorting the p 17 b 24s from italy to

france. the 19th mission was a strafing mission, first time we came in and strafe, and i'd been in the 301st. out of the 16 airplanes four, red, white, yellow, blue. i think, i can't remember -- anyway i'm blue, we're over here. we're strafing too long, southern france, radar stations. we did not know that the invasion of southern france came off on august 15th. our job was to knock off the radar stations, which controlled the guns firing out to sea.

well, we went in, first flight, second flight, third flight, fourth flight. and out of the fourth flight, who's the last guy to go across the target? me. you look up ahead and you see all of this stuff coming back at you. i went right across the top of the target and something said boom, i said what's the hell is going on? fire came up out of the floor. so i had to bail out. and here we are doing -- we were doing about 400 miles an hour because we'd pushed everything to the wall. so i said to myself remember now out of ten months -- nine months of training not one minute on how to bail out.

so you rise to the occasion. pull back on a stick, get some goddamn altitude, and as you go up you reach down on the left side, there's a little wheel that you rotate for nose down. as you turn the stick loose, your nose goes down. pull that sucker up anyway, and as you get up -- i don't know how the hell i got up, all i know it got pretty warm and i had to get out. so as you're going up, you reach out and pull the knob and the goddamn canopy goes off, you get up so high -- i don't know how high but i got kind of warm so i said it's time to go and turned the stick loose. and when you do, what happens to the nose, boom, abruptly. and as the tail dropped you had

straps here with a big buckle, and you hit that buckle so the goddamn straps come loose. boom, i come out. i remember the damn tail going by with all that fire. and somebody sds when you bail out you go a, b, c. but hell, i looked down and the goddamn trees were so close. you reach up and pull that sucker real fast, and boom i'm in the trees. and all of a sudden i'm sitting trying to get out and i hear this voice. i said oh, shit. realisticly german guard and he looked up and i'm in the trees

and he's helping me get out, and he looks up and sees a little gold bar and he salutes me, and all i can do, return the salute. i was introduced to the german -- i became a p.o.w. 12th of august 1944. by the time when harold came in. during the war there were 32 men out of the 332nd fighting group that were p.o.w.s. 32 of us. and i'm not going to go through the men that died. but we spent the rest of the war at -- three. i became a schoolteacher, city of detroit, three, five years.

lo and behold, i quit. take care, i quit, that's it. thank you. >> thank you, colonel jefferson. [ applause ] >> before our audience asks a question, 30 years you taught, was it in english? what subject did you teach? >> elementary science. >> yes, of course. do we have anything from our friends on the floor? >> my question for the whole entire panel is how did you overcome racism and discrimination, and what lessons would you share about that?

>> what the hell did you say? by the way, you're talking to guys up here where everyone of us has bad hearing. >> how did you overcome racial discrimination while you were serving in the service? >> how did we do -- >> how did you overcome racial d discrimination in your service. >> with the attitude everybody's stupid except you and me. >> i would like to make a comment on that -- >> and sometimes i'm not so sure about you. >> i'd like to make a comment about that. after racial integration took place in '49 all of us were shipped out to other outfits and

individually a lot of people ran into problems that you never thought you'd run into, discrimination problems and it hurt some of the fellows career wise, but it was a fact of life. because there were many people, whites, who didn't agree with racial integration. and if you ran or served with someone like that you may have paid a price. but gradually the service has worked, and i think we came out on top. >> still going on today. >> let's bring our fifth panelist in, lieutenant colonel james h. harvey iii, and i like your boots sir. >> thank you. >> let's hear your story. what brought you into the military, sir? >> okay in january 1943 i tried to enlist in the army air corps, and they told me they weren't taking enlistments at that time.

that was the height of the war and i got the picture they didn't want me. so they drafted me into the army in april of 1943. caught the train in pennsylvania heading to ft. mead, maryland. got to washington, d.c., had an hour layover, got off the train, went to a restaurant, got something to eat, went back to get on the train and they said no way, you're in that car back there, welcome to the south. they put me in the car where negroes road, it was generally the last car. that was my introduction to segregation. let me back up now. i was born -- i have to be born. i was born in mont clare, new jersey in july 1933.

left new jersey, left pennsylvania 1936. went to pennsylvania and my dad was there working at the hazard wire rope works, then we moved to a small town called -- station near mountaintop, pennsylvania, which is near wilkbury and hazelton, pennsylvania. i went to a school, and then when i went to high school we had to take a bus and i was in mountaintop, pennsylvania. now, when we moved out there we were the only family of color out there. so i did not run into any segregation whatsoever. i was treated just like any other person. so segregation never entered my mind. no problems.

went to high school at mountaintop, pennsylvania. we did not have to have -- the only sports we had were basketball and a tumbling team. i was the angerman on the tumbling team and captain of the basketball team. and my senior year we had another lady of color come in. so now there are two of us in the school my senior year. my senior year i was class president and validvictorian. i did not know anything about segregation like i said until i got into the military. my senior year i was in my front yard, we lived out in the country. had a house away from the house if you know what i mean, and i was standing in my yard and i saw this flight of p-40s flyover in formation. i said to myself i'd like to do that one day.

so i go to ft. meade, maryland. i got my uniform, my shots, and i checked in. and they sent me to jefferson barracks, missouri, for 30 days of basic training. finished my basic training, and based on my scores and my written test that i'd taken at ft. meade, maryland, they put me in the army air corps engineers, driving bulldozers, carry -- the mission was to go into the jungle, bulldoze an area. we'd squat and practice every day, and i said no this isn't for me. so i applied for cadet training. there are ten of us that applied that went to take the exam. nine whites and myself. two of us passed. and from there i went to keyster

field field in buluxi, mississippi. i was a perfectionist when i was growing up, everything had to be perfect. when i got married, that had to change. so washing out or failing never entered my mind because i knew i could do anything they wanted me to do. and that took me all the way through flying school, and like i said i had no problems at all with flying school. i remember one day i was practicing a lazy eight. that's a maneuver, it's an eight on a 45 degree angle between 2,000 and 1,000 feet. you can take any altitude you want but ours was between 2,000 and 1,000 feet.

and i was out practicing and when i came to the top i was approaching 2,000 feet mighty fast so i found myself upside down. but the altimeter said 2,000 feet. but i still had to practice because the instructor didn't want any of that kind of stuff. anything we did in tuskegee had to be perfect. so we learned to fly the aircraft. now, the white pilots i think all they had to do was demonstrate they could get the aircraft off the ground and back on safely. our program, flying training program was designed for our failure. they knew there wouldn't be anyone graduating to man the 99th fighter squad, and they knew that without a doubt. but we proved them otherwise. i graduated from flying school in october 16, 1944. and from there i went to --

pardon me -- walter borough, south carolina for combat training. i finished my combat training in april of 1945. had my bags packed within one hour of catching the train, ordered to norfolk, catch a ship and ordered to go over and join the group over in europe. we got a message saying to hold us, so like i said an hour before i was ready to go, we got this message saying to hold us. so i didn't go. that was in april of '45. hitler gave up the following month of may of '45. so i would have been on the high seas. and in may of 1949 we had the first ever top gun weapons meet where harry stewart, captain

temple and myself are members and we wanted to meet. by the following month of june they started full integration of the military. they declared they were going to integrate the military in '48. but nothing really happened until they broke up our group in june of '48, and they scattered us all over the world. eddy dromond, he and i headed to japan. so before we left our records had been forwarded to japan so the group commander knew who was coming or i should say the wing commander. so the wing commander called all the pilot into the base theater before we got there, and said we have these two negro pilots coming in and they'll be assigned to one of the squadrons. well, the pilots told us this themselves, they said no way are we going to fly with them, no

way. so anyway eddy and i reported into the wing commander, sitting in his office talking, and he said what do you want us to call you? it's a military organization. what do you want us to call you? i said, well, i'm a first lieutenant, eddy dromond is a second lieutenant. how about lieutenants harvey and dromond. he said, okay, but then he made this mistake. we have two fighter squadrons on the base. p 51 squadrons and the jet. which one do you want to go to? that's a no-brainer and i said the f-80, so i put us both in the f-80 squadron. they did not have a t 83, which is a trainer. but they did have t-50s and in

the back seat you pull this hood up, you can't see out. all you have are your instruments. so eddy dromond and i, we both had two flights in the back seat of an at-6. i got in the back seat, the pilot up front would get instructions for take off, in the meantime i've got the hood up in place and all i can see are my sfrumts. the pilot up front lines up the runway and say you've got it. so i throttle forward, take off, all that good stuff and i fly around doing maneuvers he wants me to do. then it's time to land, i call grand control approach, and they vectored me in for a landing. i touch down and the pilot up front took over. i had two flights like that. what does that have to do with flying the f-80?

nothing. i finally figured out why they had us do that. they wanted to see if we could fly, and we proved we could. i knew that. they had doubts. but we showed them that, yes, we could fly just like anybody else. i was in japan, and i came back to the states, went to -- well, korea. korea started when i was in japan. we immediately started flying missions the next day after the invasion. and i flew 126 missions in the f-80 and then rotated back to japan. i started flying the day after the invasion started and i had 126 missions by christmas day december 25th. in the meantime the wing

commander had been asking air command for a cut off in the number of missions that the pilots flew, and nothing would come down. finally it came down 100 missions, so i did have to fly anymore. rotated back to japan, that was in december of '50. and came back to the states in april of '51. i went to georgia air force base in victorville, california. and there i was an assistant operations officer, instrument instructor pilot and task pilot. i'll have to say i did not have any problems during my whole dured cull rear in the military as far as being a minority, none whatsoever. even the guys that were in the squadron in japan, we were very

good. we were better than they were. i think the reason why we were so good as a group is because of our training. everything we did, the instructor did was trying to wash us out and it just made us better pilots. like i said everything had to be perfect. we were good. we were the best. we proved it overseas that we were the best and then we came back to the states. we had the weapons made in '49. we won that, and we proved we were the best there. so i like to use the word best -- i don't know if you noticed that. >> what year did you retire, sir? >> i retired in madison, wisconsin, in may of 1949. now, before i retired i'd had a family to support. so before i retired i started looking for a job. i interviewed with united airlines. they didn't want me because of my color because they didn't

want any passengers getting on the airplane and see a dark face in the cockpit. and madison, wisconsin, was the home office for oscar meyer, and i interviewed, got a job. however i was to be at the plant for three months learning the operation from slaughter to finished product. i was there for a month and they needed a salesman in northern new jersey, so i went there as a salesman, was there for three years. went to detroit as an assistant sales manager, district manager, rather. and i was there for 18 months and then to a plant in philadelphia as an assistant sales manager. i was there for three years, then a got a promotion to denver as a center manager. and i was their center manager

from '74 until february 1980, retired from oscar meyer in february 1980. >> do we have any questions for colonel harvey? >> you'll have to relay like jefferson. >> don't you love the detail of 1944 and 1945? >> good morning, gentlemen. what was it like coming back to areas in the country where there was still segregation? >> can i repeat the question, gentlemen? what was it like in areas where there was segregation, what was it like to live in an area of segregation. >> she asked what was it like to live in an area where there was segregation when you came back

home. >> it didn't bother me at all. they had their problem. i ignored their problem, but i didn't let it bother me. maybe that's wrong. nothing in life bothers me. i just go with the flow. >> okay, let's get to our final panelist. it's lieutenant colonel harry stewart from new port, virginia. so that makes me think he was going to build a ship or fly a plane and he chose fly a plane. >> i see you looking at your watch and i want to find out how much time i have. >> we'll yield whatever you like, sir. >> well, thank you. i won't take more than a half-hour, all right? anyway, i'm going to preempt some of the questions that might be asked of me, maybe two questions, all right. and that question would have to

do with what was the greatest thing that happened to me while i was in the service there. well, i'd say the second greatest thing was 75 years ago plus or minus a few months, and it was quite an event for me. and it's been a lasting love affair for the past 75 years. of the combat pilots there are 13 of us left. and we still try to contact with one another. but right on the stage you see a remainder of a portion of that 13. but anyway getting back to the question, what were the greatest things that happened to me in the service, and that was one of them. that was the second greatest thing. i'd like to say is that these gentlemen, general friend over there on the end who was the first panelist there, he was born in columbia, south carolina, but he was raised in

manhattan, the borough of manhattan, new york. and you introduced me as being born in newport, virginia, and i was raised in the borough of queens in new york. but i didn't know him before i went into the service. he was operations officer in the 301st fighter squadron. and when i went over there he had already gotten about 100 missions under his belt. he was serving his second tour. but anyway the war ended in may of 1945. and we, all of us got on the boat together and we came back from italy, landed in staten island and bought colonel friend over there. he went with his family in manhattan there and i took the subway and i went home to my family in queens.

i guess i was home for about two days and i got a call from the colonel saying, harry, i'd like you to come on over and meet my family in manhattan here. so i went over and met his family, and little did i know that this would end up with a 68-year marriage with his sister. [ applause ] but i call him cupid because he did the same thing with another one of his sisters there. brought one of the tuskegee airman home and introduced them and they were married. so a question i got from somebody when i mentioned this story before is he said, well how many times did cupid do this again. and cupid answered none, and they said why, and he said i ran out of sisters.

but that was the greatest thing to happen to me while i was in the service there. >> there's one other thing. you shot down three airplanes in one mission. you didn't mention that. three airplanes in one mission. i want to make sure they heard that. >> we have just a question or two before we -- let's start to the gentleman in black all the way up in that direction and then i'll come back to the middle. just one or two questions. there's a microphone coming towards you, sir. >> hi, colonel. i'm an artist, but one of the questions i wanted to ask you and all of you guys, have you ever looked at yourselves as a civil rights movement yet to come? i mean in all reality as history proceeded you guys were the trail blazers. i was talking to colonel fred

and colonel jefferson yesterday and almost laid the path for ruby bridges, rosa parks and dr. martin luther king, jr. what i find interesting the march 24, 1945 missions, it was 20 years and one day, which was 1965, march 25th when dr. martin luther king wanted to cross the bridge to vote. so my question to you is have you ever looked at youvls as a civil rights movement yet to come. you didn't protest, you didn't march and you became some of the best pilots in the country. >> i've been asked that question a number of times. and while we were going through training, and i think that i don't think we dreamed at that time we were making an impact on, you know, the future of what

was happening as far as racial integration was concerned and that type of thing. we thought we were doing our job as citizens of the united states and performing as soldiers in the military. wasn't until maybe 19 -- in the late 1970s and even more recent when two films came out and one was called the tuskegee airman, which had worldwide distribution, and the second was the red tails which was a lucas film put out by george lucas. anyway, they got worldwide distribution, and around that time is all sorts of inquiries started coming in as far as we want to hear from you guys and what you did and give us a run-down on the history of the organization and that type of thing.

so to answer the question again is that, no, i don't think we realized how much impact we were going to make on integration while we were in the service there. but this became readily apparent after we came out of the service and we got more notoriety. >> seriously, i was satisfying something inside of me. i wanted to fly. i flew, caught all kinds of hell, but let's face it that's what was going on as a black person in this country. and i came out after the war, put all my stuff together, red tail captured, red tail free, i wrote this book and it was highly accepted, but there was

something inside of me that made me want to fly. and teaching school, i felt that somewhere young, black men needed to learn how to fight the system. the system is vicious. and unless you know how to cope with the vicious system, you've got nothing. and when i taught school -- well, to tell you something we had things called safety patrols, remember? where a little kid had a white belt and had the responsibility of patrolling or covering that corner. well, in order to be a safety you had to be a nerd. that's number one. and so a black teenager or a black kid telling him at that

time to be a nerd was a no-no. you had to be on time. colonel davis demanded us to be on time. when colonel davis said be into my office at 0900, you don't show up at 9:00. what time do you show up? >> 8:45. >> damn right. as a safety patrol you had to be on that corner at least ten minutes ahead of time. all of a sudden you're teaching a 12-year-old to be on time. when you come in the school building, you take off your hat. teaching young men how to cope with the system, when a teacher

comes to the door and a 12 or 13-year-old opens the door. what do you teach him? manners, slowly but surely. these are the kinds of things in the back of my mind, and learning how to fly -- no, that's a joke i can't tell. >> colonel jefferson if i may. you'll address the panel after the presentation. >> good enough. >> we have something special coming, so thank you for your time. reminded of us of something about timeliness. >> may i say something? >> yes, sir. >> i think it's very important for us cadets to appreciate the fact you don't have to be a

pilot in order to be in the air force. the air force has an awful wide range of activities that people are getting involved in. you can do both, be readying yourself as pilots, but at the same time selecting for your career something else. for instance, i was in tech intelligence, and in tech intelligence i was responsible for those kinds of things that you can anticipate, and i went through lots and lots of schooling. lots of school, at least ten years of schooling. and you can be happy with that. that's real life, real life. and if you can get into flying, if you like flying that's fine.

i liked flying, got into flying and had a good time. but i also recognize that the air force needs people other than pilots. these are the people, the ones who are responsible for pilots. like those crew chiefs that we had, they too had to understand, and they had the same appreciation for dedication to a subject. when i came down and got out the airplane, he used to walk over to me and say where are we going today? we. and when i came back he would say -- and i recognized a lot of

things. i watched him do it. i was right behind him. >> okay, please remain seated. we have a presentation by mr. roberts. >> first of all, thank you very much for really one of the highlights of not only our day but i suspect the highlights of our lives. in meeting, listening to not just american heroes, they are world heroes. they have stood up, taken responsibility for themselves and for others. so on behalf of a former air force guy who was not a pilot i want to express my appreciation for your leadership, for the example that you have set, for your bravery and for your dedication. thank you very much. [ applause ]

>> with that, ladies and gentlemen, please be please be seated. i would like to now introduce jim roberts, president and founder of the american veterans for a special presentation. >> thank you, you are doing a great job. thank you gentlemen, it is an honor to have the airmen with us. i knew would be inspirational and you were. i didn't know you would be that entertaining. it has been a great session. if you haven't done so yet, take the opportunity to visit the rotunda. see you soon. have a good lunch.

american history tv three is on c-span three all weekend. you can watch

lectures and college classrooms, tors of sites archival films and see our schedule of programs. that is at www.c- span.org. american history tv products are available at the cspan store. check out all of the products. you can watch archival films on public affairs each week on our series, real america. saturday at 10 pm and sunday at 4 pm eastern on american history tv. here's a quick look at one of the recent programs. >> this is part of the price paid.

>> 1600 carrier airplanes were dispatched in the first 24 hours. 43 were lost and 311 damaged by small arms fire. a lot happened that cameras couldn't get. we were covering the landing of the first bunch. we were pinned down by german fire across the field. as the men came running out, they stepped right into it. the german canon blue one glider apart. >> a veteran glider pilot. >> means more landing casualties and extreme difficulty in unloading. it would not be desirable if the dawn or dusk landing is practical. the navigation age really worked.

we couldn't see the light which was supposed to be on the drop zone. >> the department observer the entered combat with one of the airborne division's. troops were dropped in the vicinity of the -- but were scattered. it appears that systems were not flexible enough for combat. supply should be dropped as called for by local commanders. large-scale parachute resupply drops are wasteful and should be restricted to emergencies. more attention should be paid to switching over to ground supply as soon as possible. >> drew carey a liaison officer. >> our pathfinder teams in two cases suffered heavy casualties. it is only 10% operational, due to enemy fire. 50% of the supply drop ended in enemy hands. troop operations

and communications personnel should move for the first parachute or glider unit. 89% of horses and the percent of wackos crashed in landing. you can watch archival films on public affairs and entirety on the weekly series, real america. saturday at 10 pm and sunday at 4 pm eastern here on american history tv. each week, american history tvs artifacts visits museums and historic places. on the first of a two-part program, we visit the women's memorial to learn about women that served in the military. this is about 40 minutes. >> i am