track next, john mcmanus talks about his book the debt and is about to die. he tells the story of the u.s. army's first infantry division, nicknamed the big red one and how they were the first soldiers to storm the normandy beaches on june 6, 1944. the eisenhower institute at gettysburg college and the dwight eisenhower society, cohosted the event in commemoration of the 75th anniversary. >> dr. mcmanus is the first-ever faculty member in the humanities to be named a distinguished professor. >> is one of the leading historians, and the author of 12 well-known books on the topic, he is equally in demand to speak as an expert commentator.

he has appeared on cnn.com, foxnews, c- span, the military channel, the discovery channel, the national geographic channel, netflix, -- network, the history channel and pbs. dr. mcmanus also served as the historical advisor for the best- selling book and documentary, founder. the latter of which appeared nationwide in theaters and on pbs in the american masters series. is in residence at naval academy as the chair of naval and military history. a distinguished professorship. the forthcoming book, fire and fortitude, 1941-

1943 will be out on july 30. today the talk will be based on the recent book, the dead and those about to die. the day, the big red one on omaha beach. he will speak about the unforgettable story of the big red ones 19 hours of . while the role of officers is part of the story, he will share the infantry soldiers experienced during the landing. c i'm sure eisenhower would've appreciated the work. the real hero of world war ii is g.i. joe. tell us about some of the gis and i introduced dr. john mcmanus.

>> thank you. everyone hear me okay? thank you for that wonderful introduction. all the folks that made this possible, our host at gettysburg college. a pretty nice day out there. listening to me and these brilliant scholars that preceded me. is a tough act to follow. indulge me. i will do my best. would truck me when dr. simons was talking so movingly about the weather- related decision, what has always struck me, before he makes that decision, you could argue, he is the most powerful man on the planet are one of them.

he has all of this naval power and technological immaterial power. that will always go in. this prodigious military might. and it is out of his hands. the admirals or kernels or majors or even the captains. it is in the hands of the average soldier, sailor and air man. what i want to give you a sense of today, something of the combat experience i wouldn't argue this is in any way representative for every soldier.

we could build a strong argument. i'm not saying this is a representative example but i think it is an illustrative example. the first thing is how i would have come to the story, why another book on omaha beach. you have brilliant works like cornelius ryan and joseph koski. the thing that made it incredible, after studying, the battle of normandy and omaha beach for about a quarter of a century, from when i was a child, to later on when i was a graduate student, i got to participate in a program called the normandy scholars which was a remarkable opportunity to immerse ourselves into normandy for about a month.

not just the invasion of the culture, the geopolitical aspects and whatever else. later on as a battlefield historian and author, what was incredible to me, there was more to say. the story of the big red one which had been covered to some extent. i didn't necessarily believe in the kind of death that perhaps it warrant. was the happiest of convergence, something in terms of importance. undercovered and underappreciated. yet has availability of sources and prodigious quantity. enormous amounts of after action court and letters and diaries and journals and the historians writings of the time. the morning report that units kept at the company level. they told something about what happened to the various

companies in the hit the beach at omaha beach that day. the memoirs, the people i knew and had corresponded with. all of this comes together and what i hoped has allowed me to tell the story. something you can get a sense of in any way you can. at least the mindset and challenges that they. the first thing to grasp is something of the unique personality and culture and deal of the first division which nicknamed big red one. last year, the division which still exists, celebrated its centennial founding. the big red one had a great sense of omaha beach.

a sense of being special. we learned a great deal about that today. in north africa, it was a major component of the forces. he thought it sisley and had this reputation by that point as being a unit. was really reliable in combat. fought well and gained ground. was a go to unit. they were a handful. they love to fight. they love to drink and beat up on people they thought were lower warm of life. they did not call themselves grunts in those days. the call themselves dog faces are doughboys. they tended to get in trouble. they had a surly kind of attitude about a dority. they didn't always

necessarily listen to officers that were not part of their own unit. what are you matter? you were not the captain i follow. they had a reputation of being a handful. this thing that was so popular in the big red one, gives you a sense of this. here are the lead actors. traveling to general eisenhower in some respects. also bradley and patton. beheld the division commander responsible. they just allow the discipline to slack.

>> they were relieved, not for competence of cause but for disciplinary reasons . both allen and roosevelt. they were both too valuable to send home for good. roosevelt more famously ended up with the fourth and future division on the day. they earn the medal of honor, appropriately for his actions they are. about to get his own command. then died of a heart attack. he felt the division needed a new culture. you can imagine how happy they will be about these popular commanders. people you would've known and seen. quite a bit throughout north africa and sicily. people you would

have felt a connection with. at the very same time, when you have received this momentous mission, leading the invasion of france. the pot we have done enough. we are supposed to go home and train new people to do this. combat soldiers always think, once they have done their battle they have done enough. a lot was riding on who the successor would be. he comes to the big red one, late summer of 1943 or early fall. he couldn't be more different than alan. he was an earthy guy who didn't worry about whether your uniform is rumpled or whether you saluted the proper way. as long as you are a good soldier. he comes in with a spit and polish feel. the soldiers initially hated him.

he is making us lace up leggings and do this stuff. why do we have to deal with this nonsense. he didn't know any better. was 55 years old in 1944. he had joined the army as a private soldier initially. he had worked his way up to the ranks. he was a commander in world war i. he was badly wounded in compound of a battalion. it have been decorated with a distinguished cost. what division to be served? first division. you guessed it. >> hardly anybody knew that. they just knew he was here to change our lives, even in a bad way.

but was indisputable as they started to watch him, once they get to england, all of those weeks and months leading to prepare for the invasion. what is indisputable , his nickname was coach. he was an athletic coach. he was a teacher as a young man and a coach. he brought that sentiment to leadership. the instances of allan and heebner is a good example of how excellent leadership can come completely different ways. they couldn't have been more opposite but both affective. when he dresses you down, it is not personal. it is more constructive of you will have to fire your rifle better because of x, y, z. this is why we are doing this. this is why i will be unyielding. he was an expert rifleman. he went to the marching of maneuvers and had a cancer scare during the run to the normandy invasion.

he told his chief of staff and explained why he came to the division with such a hard attitude. you can never start by being a good guy then become an slb. >> by late 1943 in 1944, that division had taken heavy casualties in the mediterranean. were a lot of new guys coming in. as they were observing replacements, i would say as an aside, probably one of every two to his omaha beach on d- day was a new guy. they're getting implicated with culture. and then having proficiency in all sorts of things that are relevant to the invasion.

would come in handy in normandy and thereafter. heebner is thinking ahead, more so than at a lot of commanders were. by the time you're in the position of going ashore, people that were crosstrained, you are a squad leader you should know the platoon sergeant job. when and if they become casualties. all of these things are in play. as you might expect, they resented getting the honor of going in. why is the big red one chosen? to some extent it is obvious. to larger conceptualizes, it was one of only two divisions that general bradley, ground commander, one of only two divisions that had any combat experience.

the first and the ninth. the night had just gotten to england. i couldn't spare the first division. they knew going in, omaha beach would be a tough nut to crack because of the terrain and the obstacles and so forth. that is why they will earmark the better part of two divisions the first and the 29th. the 29th will is more culturally famous. where the range is hid and the longest day. >> the first division felt that it would be nice improper to have someone else have the honor of doing this. that was sad back story. this isn't necessarily for attributional record. in the weeks

leading to the day, i had to ncos who committed suicide rather than put themselves through the responsibility of leading people in combat and being responsible for their lives again. the resentment wasn't just the aha side of we get this job again. there were some people that could not handle it anymore. what are they against? you can see this is what i call the first division side of omaha beach. i won't get too far from the microphone. >> the strong points. the whole purpose is in order for an invader to do anything, they have to get off the beach. there are no wrote that omaha beach. no obvious ways to do this.

it was the natural -- created by erosion over numerous millennia, millions of years. those defiles will be the best at. that is what the germans will defend. they are designed to present the invaders and getting up the beach. that is the objective you would want to take if you are part of the big red one. omaha beach was 4.5 miles long. it is really good for the defender. you can have interlocking fire. from either side. you have to have those. they further subdivide the three portions of the big red one beach.

most famous, easy read. you can see the defenses. what is within those? is a blend of weapons. concrete whole structures with machine guns or mortars. there are concrete bunkers that you tend to associate with the normandy invasion. some of the most deadly weapons are 50 millimeter guns are devastating. you have plenty of rifleman. you have mortars. i would argue the most formidable defenses that the germans have, at least in the sector, is the artillery. in some ways, your deadliest adversary for sure is a soldier that day. his calling in the heaviest and worst

and deadliest of the fire power. they have 24 105 millimeter arterial pieces. everyone of them set up. all but survived almost a completely useless --. more on that in a moment. b you have observers in those bunkers. they were screaming mimi's. these are rocket launchers that will hurl rockets at the beach. that is what you are up against. this is what it looks like later on. you are looking from wn 60. the easter most extreme of all of omaha beach. >> that can link up from the british.

you look from one glance of that picture, any atop background can sweep almost all of omaha beach. you can see in the distance, you are looking at almost all of omaha beach. yancey --. that is around on the other side. this is what you are up against. high ground like this shooting down at you. why is this different from what you would see in 1944? you didn't have a parking lot there. you didn't have taurus mac -- taurus mac -- the germans cut on the foliage. you don't want trees to deflect bullets. it gives you a sense of what you

have there. the allies have planned this minutely. it is predicated on surprise. you're not going to hit omaha beach over and over again. that means, you are talking about a one- off aerial bombardment. asking the heavies who were lucky to get their bomb and that they mage within a mile or so their target. about a 2000 yard window with their unfriendly fleet, and troops about to come into. it was a cloudy day. if you are bombardier, you're not going to drop if you think there's a chance you'll hit your own fleet are people. the bomb in land. next to nothing from an aerial side.

it is better targeted. problem is, once you see the explosions, you have all of the missed and cloudy weather. have dust and smoke and plumes of smoke that make it tougher for the naval observers to see precisely what they are shooting at. in the end, you're shooting at an enemy hunkered down. in the big red one sector, the naval and air bombardment. it wasn't pleasant. it didn't do a lot of damage. it knocked out a flamethrower. it is one productive thing it did. the beach was largely untouched. you would have been briefed, they are going to knock it over. he mac mini being michael, extremely

skeptical. you go ashore, about 6:30 pm. you saw the footage earlier. climbing dominance. that happens about two hours before. you're climbing down and circling around, about two hours. people are seasick. it is a miserable experience. the honor of going in first. you can see the obstacles. one of every four americans holders that goes ashore is an engineer. summoning minds and obstacles. they put together gap assault teams. combined teams of engineers. the navy is supposed to deal with under the water in the army wasn't. also armor.

armor that is coming, some of --. or famously, swimming tanks. the duplex tanks that are disastrous. land them all at the same time, present the germans with these targets having mutually supporting power. it goes wrong from the start. captain james was the armor commander. he was the citadel class of 1940 graduate. he is looking at the choppy seas and wondering if we should launch the tanks were not. was a bad call unfortunately. the tanks were swamped. two of the tanks sank. and average one lost per tank. remains are still there.

five tanks got ashore. to swim in. the two that did are under shepherd and sergeant frank get his. will significantly knocked out the only 88 millimeter gun they had. there were two altogether. one on the 29th division side and one, knocking out the one at 61 quickly. they did damage. only about 16 of 56. for you as a tanker your presented with a difficult situation. you have so many soldiers around you. you don't want to run them over. if you're a stationary target, they can pick you off. it is a devastating

battle. the troops land haphazardly in jagged groups. the tides were messed up. the confusion, not knowing where they are looking. the smoke and dust and fear and seasickness. unfortunately, the two main assault companies, landed in the deadliest spot. the absolute kill zone. that led to massive lots of life. he claims to fired 12,000 rounds. you picked off soldiers with rifles. gives you insight into how devastating. you, sure, you are probably seasick. your wet, scared, tired and confused.

you are wearing gas resistant and gas impregnated uniforms in case they use poison gas. the soldiers called them skunk suit. you are carrying 70 pounds of stuff. you are wet and staggering around. at a time when you need to move like a rabbit and you move like a tortoise. you are sick and lehtinen in your skunk suit. john mcvey is a good example. he is so sick and overloaded, i didn't care if hitler was waiting. >> it is an open beach, swept with fire in every direction. getting decimated into frustration for them.

soldiers are taking cover behind that. you're not unaware that to blow up when you have your own guys. have that plus taking casualties in many cases you have explosive laden craft that are hit immediately in touch off massive explosions. it's about a 56% casualty rate. 15 service crosses. granny platoon leader. he is the first off the craft. will notice the pictures, you'll see the image from the back. you will notice the guy with the vertical hashmark is standing at the front. it is his job to lead the way. the guy the back

with horizontal mark, he is the push man. something about staying or you will plastic. i am your sergeant and tyrannical leader. after the war, his heartbroken mother wrote urging them to tell his story. your talk about being humbling. >> he was carrying a satchel charge. something touched it off and it literally blew him to pieces in every direction. the biggest piece was as big as my fifth and as white as snow. the other survivors had to crawl over

this as they made their way up the beach. after the publishing i heard from a family. it is a custom, not just in france but other countries, to adopt a grave for americans buried in the cemetery's overseas. i wonder if i could share how he had died and what it happened. it wasn't a pleasant thing to relate but at least it was a bit of knowledge and closure. the proprietary side of knowing him. the survivors are pinned down along astonishing tank that slopes upward and gives the illusion of safety and cover. it is the sloping rocks that are all over the sloping. it is tougher vehicles to go over. with mortar shells and artillery shells, compounds the fragmentation effect. it is slippery and wet.

it is the first thing you might've got to belong -- beyond the obstacles and shale. many dead and wounded lay along the water line. medics are risking their lives to go back. the tide was coming in and getting closer. medics are going back and trying to drag people, wet and half dead, forward. is one of the few times in the war when medics were dragging wounded men toward the enemy rather than the opposite direction. it is a bit of an insight into a bit of a planning oversight. the earmark a lot of landing craft, for things that are ancillary. talks, artillery pieces. not as much for medical evacuation. a lot of frustration that medics would relate to either historians and their memoirs or whatever. they would stabilize the guy can't get them to a landing craft and the like no, we are leaving. on your orders, dumping up your troops and your loading getting

something else. you are not to evacuate the wounded. it is a point of frustration. i think it cost them lives. >> you see this everyone did up the beach and ardell bed? >> you're presenting the germans with targets. >> by my estimate, there are only about 500 soldiers. >> the americans have massive advantages. when you're looking at bears, lieutenant john spalding is the commander of probably the first american boat section to get off the beach. he was 30 years old and had gotten an ocs commission. he was from kentucky. he loved baseball. he was married and had a young child back home.

it is the first day of combat. he's a very seasoned and experienced --. a child of the depression. one of 10 children that had to leave school because times were tough. had to leave school around eighth grade. joins the army. he foster north africa, sicily and was a heavily decorated. if you take a poll, who is the most valorous soldier in the division? he knows what he is doing. >> imagine if you are spalding, you are roughly the same age of the sky but he is been around the block. >> regardless of the natural tension, there section gets off the beach first. you can see where this happens. >> starting to work

their way in. it's what i would compare to knives in the vitals of the germans. the do tremendous damage. they lose two killed and eight wounded. seven men in the section of 32. including spalding and stay sick. another example, captain dawson, that meant as a staff officer, the first company command. is a 30-year-old geologist from texas that worked in the oil business. he was the son of a prominent baptist minister from texas and a graduate from baylor university. he feels he has to prove himself. >> he took the worst casualties. he comes in 20

minutes after. he starts to make his way up. you have a prominent steeple. his unit ends up fighting utterly. the tragic thing, had taken about 60 casualties getting off the beach. the heaviest relate in the day because of the communication. the navy had preplanned fire and killed several of the guys. he also will be highly decorated as well so many of his guys. the governing overlord is colonel george taylor. the term comes from him. if you've ever seen the longest day, the phrases attributed to --.

it is taylor who said this. he actually wrote it. he had served in the mediterranean and new as much as any american commander. he said in an operation, there are two classes of men that he found on the beach. those that are already dead and those that are about to die. >>'s message was get off the beach. he comes in about an hour and a half after, he had been killed instantly. all of these people, taking cover. walking up and down. get up and off the beach. that is where the title of the book comes from. i think taylor's contributions are twofold. saving a lot of lives by motivating people to get off the beach.

when you're at the shingle bank, you are a target. once you are moving in land, you are a hunter. he gets this also. i just mentioned spalding and dawson. there are other groups as well that are doing much the same thing. some we don't even know about. what he does is helps reinforce them in a timely could've been vulnerable. now there are other guys putting pressure on the germans in creating the national manpower advantage. really going a long way toward helping. by the end of the day, what do you have? you have a --. by midday, a lot is sorted out. with the help of accurate and excellent naval gunfire from destroyers. that is just a few examples that come in. once you have spotted target, they do tremendous

damage. you have done this by nightfall but it has been costly. there are no lines, just positions in foxholes and trolls roaming around. i would estimate, this is probably an underestimate, 1000 -- casualties. including 820 in the 16th infantry including 300 killed. probably an underestimate. there are probably 500 from the gap saltine, the tankers and engineers. we talked about the balloons earlier. the emotional toll it took on survivors. straight sickens walding font throughout much of the rest of world war ii. the lodge probably over 400 is in combat. he was wounded many times. eventually had to be evacuated. spalding as well. both went on to it seemed to be productive lives. basic took his own life in the late 1950s. spalding was shot to death by his wife in the late

1950s. you would have to think the trauma of omaha beach had some relation to this. dawson became a millionaire. that puts you in a better mood. a much better story. wrote about it and was incredible. he wrote to his family, shortly after d-day. but little thanks faction gained, was the belief it was all worthwhile. this were shared by our loved ones and those that represent the nation. cults recall that is very true. it may have been hard to see it that way in the summer of 1944. especially with the battle of normandy raging. that is how he looked at it at the moment. he was anticipating. where's huber? there is insight. this has been a small unit leaders battle. once the rest of and taking care of which is a big deal. there are only two generals that were in play throughout most of the day. the second-in- command and also very well on

plastic. he comes in about dinnertime. about 7 pm. most of the fighting had died down. there are still german patrols, still artillery and motors coming in. the de-mining goes on for days and weeks. there were thousands of minds there. he comes in and he has been like a caged line in the course of the day. he is a lead by example kind of guy. he is a combat soldier. he is wanting reports. his staff is telling him, you can go ashore but you will be cut off from communication. everything will be chaotic if you are not in command. you have to hunker down. finally, he is a sure. when he gets ashore, he sees the aftermath. he sees what his guys have done. there is a sense of off. he speaks with a staff officer in the 16th infantry

who explains, here is what we do. here is the toll we think it took. the basic report. humor is emotional. he has tears in his eyes. he says over and over, a sense of awe. at the moment, it probably meant nothing. i look at that, if you could extrapolate that to the larger invasion, not just these guys at omaha beach. all the soldiers. i don't know how it happened but somehow you did it. at that moment, heebner believed and many soldiers who cooperate in years to come, it was a bomb solidified between him and that division. he really commanded it very successfully and became a corps commander. he was looked at lovingly like alan. that is the place to close the loop.

>> i would love to take questions. can you expand on the german division in a cast of the german units. parts of the infantry division which has a lot of eastern european roster filler. people that were given the choice, we can work you to death and you can serve in the german army. the german army is hurting for manpower. you have some of those guys. the 352nd infantry division which is mostly but not entirely german. it is a better unit. an interesting anecdote, and experience in the course of the day. was polish-american.

he encounters a polish soldier who had just shot at him and his guys. he was not pleased. he literally kicked him in the pants as he took them prisoner and walked into omaha beach. i say i don't blame him i guess. he is angry. think about the conundrum the soldier is an. think about where the war has taken him. now he has to open fire at someone who was one of the countrymen and away. that is what the war has done to a lot of people. that is my essay, the average infantrymen, at least the big red one side of omaha beach is not really your greatest enemy. it's the artillery that is coming in and the other firepower.

>> the shingle bank where a lot of people to cover, in a way, some of it is still they're going to come in and start blowing holes in the shingle bank. b talking about the logistics. getting it moving to get all the stuff in. the engineer mission , somebody with minds. some barbed wire.

or whatever else they're doing. a lot to do. >> and visiting normandy we went to the german cemetery. we were amazed at the ages of the people. i'm only guessing, not the ones you had seen at the cemetery. some of those were in the 12th ss. the guys at omaha beach tend to be older. 20s and 30s. the german opposition, i'm using that as a relative term.

i think 19. another guy was 18. maybe not as young as 14. >> we did see site and had 15 and 14. it is possible they may have been from the 12th ss. that fights the canadians. in land from juno beach. >> talking about the 3/52.

it was the remnants of a division in the east. brought back to the hanover. it was a fresh draft of 18-year- olds, all from the area. exactly. there is a myth that came out. a newer pop-culture . about the 3/52. on omaha beach that day. the concept was to defend the waterline. is close to the beaches he could get it. the intelligence had failed to determine this.

firepower to use at night. that was not a good thing.

allen's was quite different. he was too competent a commander to sit out the rest of the war. he got the 104th which is called the timberwolves and they fought in like october, november, 1944 and they also helped liberate a concentration/labor camp at the end of the war. >> remarkable unit really. >> okay. i will do the last question. >> lots riding on this, sir. >> no. >> [ laughter ] >> story of my life, because i'm going to be 89 shortly. >> better than the alternative. >> i couldn't wait to get in the service and the naval reserve i was

still in high school and they let me finish high school and then went and i have been there twice. anyone i have spoken with who has been there, everyone has cried. >> with good reason. >> it is an emotional place. >> it is. lew rida from eastern pennsylvania put out a series of films on world war ii and one, he had a german machine gunner who was on the coast there and playing our people. he said they fell down, guns back and forth, back and forth.

he ended up crying and i have always -- he kept saying they kept coming, they kept coming, they kept coming. they kept coming. that is what made the difference. >> it did. it was overwhelming them with wave after wave of troops and against a couple thousand soldiers on the german side. the emotion of it with good reason. think about what happened there. know where has this become more evident than the cemetery. 9387 americans buried there include from the big red one. i can relate to that sent timent and that is what i hoped to convey, not just today, but in the book, who these guys were. humanize these guys again as these were flesh and blood people as all of us, but in this situation and that is what interested me as a historian. i would like to

thank you for your service to world war ii veterans of course and all military vet vans for your service, i would like to just thank you. >> thank you. [applause] if you like american history tv, keep up with us during the week on facebook, twitter and youtube. learn about what happened this day in history and see preview clips of upcoming programs. follow us at c-span history. american tv products are available at the online store. go to c-span store.org. see what is new and check out all the c- span products. force coming up on american history tv, we'll learn more about the world war ii d- day invasion of

normandy, france which took place 75 years ago on june 6, 1944. first author alex kershaw joined us from the d-day memorial in bedford, virginia. his new book is the new wave, those who led the way to victory in world war ii. then you'll hear about normandy 1944 looking at the impact of the invasion and aftermath on the french. both she and alex kershaw responded to viewer questions and comments. soldiers, sailors and airmen of the allied expeditionary force, you are about to embark on the great crusade. eyes of the world are upon you. the hopes and prayers of liberty loving people everywhere march with you. in companies with our brave allies and brothers in arms on other fronts,