tuskegee alabama by the us army. the tuskegee airmen became the first african-american fighter groups sent into combat during world war ii. next from the 21st annual american veteran center conference, 6 tuskegee airmen appear on stage at the national archives marking the 75th anniversary of their first deployment in 1943. the veterans talk about their combat experience during world war ii and the korean war recalling some of their most dangerous missions and what it was like to serve in a segregated military. this is about 65 minutes. >> it's with great pleasure i now introduce our panel of american icons, the tuskegee airmen. moderating the panel's mr. ron

jackson who is a third- generation military man who is currently a tour guide and the us capital but formally a proud trooper in the 32nd airborne division. i'm from north carolina so we are exceptionally proud of the 82nd and their actions over fort bragg. we like to tell people we are the most military friendly state in the nation and we would work really hard to live up to that. without any further ado, mr. jackson you are on, thank you very much. [ applause ] >> thank you and good morning. talking to the william g mcgowan theater and we are here to salute american icons, the tuskegee airmen. please allow me to briefly introduce the panel and we will

come back and hear from our panelists and ask the field to give questions. i may recite the question a time or two just for clarity. let's begin with the first person closest to me with the blue cap. lieut. col. robert friend. next to him, lt. col. harold brown. lt. col. col. george hardy, lt. col. alexander jefferson, lieut. col. james h harvey the third, and are closer, lieut. col. harry stewart. let's begin with lieut. col. robert friend born in south carolina. his father fought in world war i . what we will do is col. friend, we will yield the floor to you and then ask our friends in the audience to give you questions. that's have a round of applause

for our first panelists. [ applause ] >> just give us a brief history about you and your account in the military and then we will see. >> i was always interested in flying and-- i had a pilots license in the late 30s because i was a part of a program that the united states was doing in potential defense and that was to train people to fly airplanes as they were doing in europe. and so, when the time came for us to go to cut tuskegee i was more than prepared and i

enjoyed it very much. the one thing that i would like to give back from my personal standpoint, everybody says tuskegee, the place where they trained the african-americans. that's the wrong way, i think, to look at it. the right way to look at it is that was the place where they trained people who were not white. you could be anything else. and so, i went through the program and went through three wars. i feel very very fortunate to be able to be here to speak to you and to let you know how we felt. thank you. >> [ applause ]

>> would anyone like to ask a question of col. friend? if so, please stand. >> i would like to make note given the bio that you see on the screen and for the audience that may be screened streaming, if i may, a veteran of 142 combat missions with the tuskegee airmen and the first african-american general in the air force benjamin davis junior. yesterday was the anniversary of senior of receiving his star october 25, 1940. there's very few of us in this audience that remember 1940, yet our panel does. >> let's introduce lieut. col. harold brown from minneapolis minnesota whose father also fought in world war i. would

you give us a brief history of some of your events that took place? >> certainly. i was born and raised in minneapolis minnesota and when i was in the sixth grade, 11 years old, i woke up one morning and guess what? i was going to become a military fighter pilot. well, at the mention of that, my mother who looked at me, isn't it strange how your mother can look at you and say he has all this wonderful pallet but i have no talent whatsoever. but they can see things that no one else could see. so, i sat on the piano stool for the first 10 years of my life for so and then in the sixth grade at 11 years old i decided i'm going to become a military pilot.

don't ask me why, don't ask me how, i don't remember seeing a movie about it, but one morning i woke up and i was bitten. from that point on it was model airplanes and every book i can fly. i can remember one book in particular. west point of the air, and i bet i read that book so many times i almost had it memorized. so, when i was 16 years old i was a soda jerk and i managed to save up $35. it could take mia to chamberland and i went out to a an operator and said i want to take flying lessons. they said sure, that will get you five. well i got the five and a little g3, you know them. i don't know if you do are not as young as you guys are, you don't see g3 gliders very often

but nevertheless that's where it was. no more money and no more flying lessons. in 1941 we know the war started, but keep in mind that during back in those days after pres. roosevelt decided to train those guys in the first class started in july 1941, they wanted people to have some college experience but it didn't take long before they had just about wiped out all the guys with college experience. he said we will open it up for high school kids. you can pass the physical, past the mental exam, they will take you in. so it 17 years of age i graduated from my high school june 1942, i go be bopping down to the local recruitment station and say hey, i want to sign up. great. sign on the dotted lines for

the exams. and i say hey, i'm on my way. but then they said no, not yet. everyone else, and i'm the only guy looking just sitting there and there's about 100 other guys, they were all sworn into the reserve and obviously protected from the draft. but my paperwork said go to washington dc so the draft is going to get me before i get my chance to go fly. fortunately in december i was selected and i finally wound up in the military graduating class of 1944. 19 years old, the hottest thing that ever said good morning to an airplane. [ laughter ] that was also a joke. do you know why they send young guys off to fight wars? the old generals kind of sit

there and send the young guys. you know why they do that? you guys are invincible, aren't you? all you guys will live forever. nothing bad will ever happen to you but guess what? one day you to were also-- but i could keep yakking but i don't want to take up too much time. so does anyone have any questions? [ laughter ] come on. you've got 10,000 questions so give me one. >> wrong one question. >> the gentleman to the left. what is it? >> did-- all come from west point? given that you liked talent, what talent do you wish you had over enemy territory? >> i wish i had a pair of wings to fly to be quite honest.

unfortunately that was not the case. let me tell you a little bit about that take a few minutes. one of the biggest hazards of flying missions is if you ever are hit you always-- you get briefed to get out of the target area and rightly so, but that's the mission or whatever, there were a bunch of people down there, not that he needs-- to kill people but flying all over the place. all of a sudden you get hit and you are in your shoes. can you imagine what those guys are thinking about after you just about wiped out some guys brother and another guy's wife? and here you come floating down in a parachute. those are some very angry people and rightly so. to follow that up in two more minutes, that's

all i will take. i was shot down on my 30th mission >> alexander is giving me a rough time down here. i was shot down on my 30th mission and one of the unfortunate things i did not get out of the target area. i was picked up almost immediately and brought back to a little village. i was met by 35 of the increase people you have ever seen in your life. there was no doubt they had murder on their minds and they made certain that i knew what they were going to do. here i was 20 years old looking like this, no business being up in germany, and i have a mob of 35 or so people looking at me and they wanted a piece of me. fortunately there is a good

person that came up and presented them from taking my light. those first 35 minutes or so i was frightened to death. there wasn't a doubt in my mind i was going to die. i couldn't run, i couldn't hide, i couldn't do anything. as a matter of fact, i think i was talking to myself for a while. >> think of something. i say yes, but that's what's going to happen to me. but that was the most frightening thing. i was looking death straight in the eye and it 20 years old i had a whole lot of living to do. but from that point on as a

pow, that was a safe haven really. and i will cut it off because i can tell you 10,000 stories but i think you get the picture. >> thank you. [ applause ] >> for those that did not hear the exchange when he said he was shot down on his 30th mission, col. jefferson said welcome to the club. [ laughter ] i just feel like i like to hear col. brown. lieut. col. george harvey.-- george hardy. >> i was born and raised in philadelphia and turned 17 that same month to get into the service. i took the engines exam went to

flying school in december. graduated september 44. after additional training i ended up going overseas. be 5119 years old i had my rolls-royce i got out in 46 and went to nyu and we recalled and 48. that's when racial integration started, at least the air force was formed in september 1947. later they said they were going to integrate racially and truman signed the executive order in july. i went back in, became a maintenance officer in electronics. when i graduated racial integration had taken place in

the air force and i was assigned to the 19th group on guam between nine outfitters and a maintenance officer. i learned to fly the air pain and in 1950 i was put on a combat crew as a copilot. when the korean war started we flew over korea. the first mission was june 1950 but there were two mac racial problems in those days. may 1950 got a new squadron commander who wouldn't speak to me except in the line of duty because he didn't believe in racial integration. and when we started flying talking july 7 combat mission, at the last minute he pulled me off the airplane and replaced me. he didn't want me flying in his outfit. >> i didn't go down with them.

but anyway, i survived that period and the squadron commander, the new commander put me back on flying status so i ended up flying 45 missions. came back to the states and had a good time. i say that i grew up in the service because i went to the institute of technology and from there i went to japan. i had a good tour, maintenance supervisors and airplanes were the british-- bombers. from there i went to new york and the squadron commander on the maintenance squadron, my wing commander was the same

officer who pulled me off the airplane in okinawa. i was with him for two years up there and it was the best three years of my career. i loved working for him the second time. and i stayed with him forever but the institute of the technology let me know about a little program they were going to put into effect right away. they didn't have time to advertise so they went to graduates and my name came up and they offered me a chance to go. i went there february 16 for 19 month in systems engineering. i ended up with a masters degree in the new field so i grew up in the service. then i got a job at hanscom air

force base and i made lt. col. and i made lt. col. for 3 1/2 years i was chief of engineering for the overseas-- program. the direct dial telephone system . 3 1/2 years i was chief of majoring and a manager for that. the first switch is cut over june 1969 they had a new gunship . it was a 2 airplane. 42 paratroopers and they let them out to at a time but they made a gunship out of it in vietnam. they looked at pilots who had flown the air pain airplane and i had hundreds of hours. i got called back to duty as a pilot and ended up going to the tom in 1970.

as a lt. col. the airplanes were at operating locations. thailand and--. i trained with the crew but when i went overseas they took it away for me and the plane was suddenly, missions in vietnam. i came back and retired in 1971. the way that i say that i grew up, i was educated in the service. someone was looking out over me. i never had to bail out of an airplane. so as i say, i was in someone's good graces and i think god for that. the thing is, when i retired because of my degrees i retired on a monday and they may be a job offer. i worked for them for 18 months.

i mean, 18 years. so i say i had the best of everything as far as service and i'm grateful for that. >> if you have questions for col. hardy we will bring a microphone to you. all the way up. just a second col. >> yes-man. >> i'm the assistant director of military deaths in florida and m university. i do have a question for you all. in your age now how do you stay so sharp and so witty? >> [ laughter ] >> what was the question again? [ laughter ] >> what indeed. how do you stay so sharp and witty?

i believe that's for the entire panel. >> i'm 93. so i know how hard it is to get around and do things like that. age catches up with everyone. >> slowly but surely. [ laughter ] >> i have one for col. hardy. if we could be reflective for a moment from world war ii to the cuban missile crisis to vietnam, your experiences leading up to vietnam, how do they help you? >> when i look back i was able to adapt to everything. the thing is when i look at the totality of the career they-- african ancestry. at the end of my career in vietnam i was a detachment commander and all of my pilots were white.

that stash how things went in the service. i still meet with those guys and have reunions some of them. i was 45 then, they were at least 20 years younger than me but i get along with them very well. >> thank you. >> yes absolutely. [ applause ] >> well done. >> the fourth panelist is lieut. col. alexander jefferson whose grandfather was one of the founding fathers at morehouse university. his favorite place to vacation is in hawaii. so hopefully he will tell us what he likes to do in hawaii. col. jefferson let's give the floor to you. tell us a little bit about yourself and your history with the armed forces. >> someone asked why the heck did you go to the army? remember now, 1941 world war ii was picking up. i graduated from clark college

in june 1942. the draft, the first thing i did was went down from detroit, went down to the federal building, and joined. i thought they were going to send me to tuskegee because it was segregated and all of the training was at tuskegee. go home and we will call you. they put me on the list, took me almost 9 months before they called me. remember, i'm a college graduate going to tuskegee because the army navy marines were grabbing black men with college degrees. the classes after me went through three months of college

training detachment. i graduated in january 1944. from tuskegee as a second lieutenant, we were sent to selfridge air force base. the three sections, the three squadrons were first, the second, and the 99th. these squadrons of blacks were flying p 39 up and down the shores outside of italy. my class, we were supposed to be replacements for them. we were trained in p 39's at selfridge air force base until something like march of something like march 1944 or 45, 44, i had a two star

general come to selfridge. i'm out over lake huron. the report to the post theater on the double which means job everything you are doing and get behind the theater. we were there. blacks with white officers trying to find out what the is going on. nobody knows. all of a sudden somebody said-- and we popped down the aisle is a two star general. they look and say what the is going on there? i don't know. he rambled on and on for about four or five or 10 minutes and, these are the words that i remember. quote. gentlemen, this is my airfield. as long as i'm in command there will be no socialization between white and colored

officers. we've been trying to get into the officers club and he said heck no. that was thursday. saturday morning they put us on a train three days later and we ended up at south carolina. we were in the first class to be shipped over. i was in the 30 first fighter squadron and completed 18 1/2 missions. [ laughter ] my 18th missions were escorting p 51s. i'm

cutting it short. the 18th mission escorting b-17s and be 24 is from italy to germany. the 90th mission, first time we came in and out of the 16 airplanes, red, white, yellow, blue. i think. i can't remember. but anyway, i'm blue. i'm over here. too long. southern france. radar station. we did not know that the invasion of southern france

came up on august 15. our job was to knock off the radar station which controlled the guns firing to see. the first flight, second flight, third flight. fourth flight and on the fourth flight who was the last guy to go across the target? me. you look up ahead and you see all of this stuff coming back at you. i went right across the top of the target and something said boo. i said what is going on? i had to bail out. so here we are doing about 400 miles an hour. i said to myself remember now, out of 10 months,

nine months of training not one minute on how to bail out. [ laughter ] so you rise to the occasion. back on a stick, get some altitude, and as you go up there's a little wheel that you rotate. if you turn the stick loose your nose goes down. pull that sucker up anyway. i don't know how i got high. all i know is we got pretty warm. i had to get out. as you are going up you pull a red knob and the canopy comes off. and you get up so high, i don't know how high. it's time to go.

and you turn the stick loose. what you do-- when you do, what happens to the nose? boom. abruptly. and i said as the tale drops, you have straps with a big buckle. you hit the buckle and the straps come loose. i came out. i remember the tail going by with all of the fire. somebody said when you bail out you go abc. but i look down the trees. you pull that sucker real fast and all of a sudden i'm trying to get out and i hear this voice. i said oh shoot.

[ laughter ] realistically, german guard look it up and i'm in the trees. he's helping me get out, and he looks up and sees a little old bar and he-- me. he salutes me. all i can do is return the salute. [ laughter ] i was introduced, i became a pow in 1944. by the time harold came in, during the war there were 32 men out of that fighter group. 32 of us, and i'm not going to go through the men who died but we spent the rest of the war at-- three

and seven and eight come back came back from the war. i became a schoolteacher in the city of detroit 35 years with stinking snouts. lo and behold, i quit. [ laughter ] i quit. that's it, thank you. >> [ applause ] >> i'm just curious. 30 years you taught, was it ending this? >> what did you teach? >> elementary science. >> of course. that's obvious. would you be so kind to send the microphone toward you? too bad it wasn't english.

>> my question for the entire panel is how do you overcome racism and discrimination, and what lessons would you mind sharing about that? >> repeat the question one more time. >> every one of us has bad hearing. >> how did you overcome racial discrimination while serving? >> how did we do it? >> how did you overcome racism over your years of service? and the follow-up, subsequent to that-- >> you had to deal with everyone is stupid except you and me. [ laughter ] [ applause ] i would like to make a comment on that. sometimes i'm not so sure about

you. i'd like to make a comment about that. after racial integration to lace in 1949, all of us were shipped out to other outfits and a lot of people ran into problems that you never thought you would run into. it hurts some careerwise but it was a fact of life. there were many people, whites who didn't agree with racial integration and if you serve with someone like that you may pay the price. gradually the services work and i think we came out on top. >> it's still going on today. >> let's bring the fifth panelist in. >> james h harvey the third from montclair new jersey. i like your boots. >> thank you. >> what brought you into the

military? >> january 1943 i tried to enlist in the army air corps and they told me they were not taking enlistments. i got the picture. they didn't want me. so they drafted me in the army in april 1943. we got to washington dc, a one hour layover, i got off the train, went to a restaurant and got something to eat, went back to get on the train and said no way. you are in that car back there. welcome to the south. and they put me in a car. that was my introduction to segregation.

let me back up now. i was born-- people have to be born. [ laughter ] i was born in montclair new jersey. went to pennsylvania in 1936. went to roxbury pennsylvania and my dad was there working. then we moved to a small town near a mountaintop. between roxbury and hazleton pennsylvania. i went to school, a two room schoolhouse in the seventh and eighth grades. then we went to high school. we had to take a bus and i was at mountaintop pennsylvania. when we moved out there we were the only family of color out

there. i did not run into any segregation out there. i was treated just like dust. no problem. went to high school at mountaintop in slovenia. the only sports that we had were basketball and a tumbling team. i was in command of the tumbling team and captain of the basketball team. my senior year there was another young lady of color come in and then there were two of us my senior year. my senior year i was class president and valedictorian. i did not know anything about segregation. like i said, until i got into the military. i was in my front yard out in the country. we lived in the country.

no cities at all. i had a house away from the house if you know what i mean. i was standing in my yard and i saw this flight flyover information and i said to myself i would like to do that someday. so i go to maryland, i get my uniform, my shots, and i checked in. they sent me to missouri for 30 days of asic training. i finished basic training and based on my scores on my written test that i had taken they put me in the army air corps of engineers driving bulldozers, and the mission was to go to the pacific, go to the jungle, does out an area and build an airfield for aircraft. we used to go out and practice every day and i said this is it

for me. so i applied for cadet training. there were 10 of us that applied it that went to take the exam. nine whites and myself. from there i went to biloxi mississippi for 30 more days of basic training. i finished that, and onto tuskegee i went. i was a perfectionist when i was growing up. everything had to be perfect. when i got married that had to change. [ laughter ] >> so it never entered my mind because i knew that i could anything they wanted me to do and that took me all the way through flying school. like i said i had no problems at all in flying school. i remember one day i was practicing a lazy eight, that's a maneuver on a 450 angle

between 2000 and 1000 feet. i was between 2000 and 1000 and was out to sing. when i came to the top i was approaching 2000 feet mighty fast so i found myself upside down. i still had to practice because the instructor did not want any of that kind of stuff. anything we did it tuskegee had to be perfect so we learned to fly the aircraft. the white pilots, i think all they had to do is demonstrate they could get the aircraft off the ground and back on safely. our program was designed for our failure. they knew there would not be anyone graduating

of my squadron. they knew that without a doubt, i graduated from flying school in october in october 16, 1944. from there i went to-- pardon me. south carolina for combat training. i finished my combat training in april 1945 with my bags packed and catching the train to go to norfolk to join the group over in europe. we got a message saying to hold us so an hour before i was ready to go we got this message so i didn't go. that was an april 1945. i had to have been on the high seas. in may 1949 we had the

first ever top gun weapons meet where harry stewart, capt. templer and myself remember. in the following month of june, they started integration of the military and because they were going to integrate the military , nothing really happened until they broke up the group in june. they scattered us all over the world. andy drummond in the 99, he and i had an assignment to masala japan. before we left, our records had been dashed to the japan and the wing commander new ones coming. he called all of the pilots into the theater and there were

these two pilots coming in assigned to one of the squadrons. the pilots told us this themselves. they said no way are we going to fly with them. no way. so andy drummond and i reported . we were in his office talking and they said what do you want us to call you? it's a military organization. i said, andy drummond is the second lieut. then he made a mistake. he said we have three squadrons on the base. 2b 51 squadrons and an f 80. which one do you want to go to ask that's a no-brainer. so he put us both in the f 80 squadron.

they may not have a t 33, they do not have one but they did have a couple of 18 sixes. we flew them in instrument training and in the backseat you pull this hood up and you can't see out. so andy and i, we both had two flights in the backseat. i get in the backseat, the pilot up front gets ready for takeoff, and in the meantime i've got the hood up before we taxi out. i've got it in place and all i can see are my instruments. the pilot lines up on the runway and says you've got it. take off, spoke to control and all that good stuff, i fly around doing maneuvers he wants me to do. then they called joan gun

control who i should be in for a landing. i touchdown and they took over. i had to fight like that. what does it have to do with flying the f 80? nothing. i never figured out why they had us do that. they wanted to see if we could fly. we proved we could. i knew that. we showed them that yes we could fly just like anybody else. i was in japan and i saw this-- came back to the states, went to korea. korea started and we immediately started flying missions the next day after the invasion. i flew 126 missions in the f 80 and rotated back to masala japan.

i started flying the day after the invasion started and i had 126 missions by christmas day december 25. in the meantime, the wing commander had been asking air force commands for a cut out of the number of missions and finally it came down to 100 missions so i did not have to fly anymore. i rotated back to japan. that was in december of i rotated back to japan. that was in december 1950, then came back to the states in april 1951. i went to georgia air force base in victorville california, and i was an assistant operations officer, instrument instructor pilot and test pilot. i did not have any problems during my whole career in the military as far as being a

minority. none whatsoever. even the guys in masala japan, the ones that said they were not going to fly with us, they found out that we were good. we were very good. we were better than they were. the reason we were so good as a group is because of our training. everything they did, the instructor did was trying to wash us out and everything had to be perfect. we were good. we were the best. we proved it overseas that we were the best and then we came back to the states, we had weapons made in 49, we won that and we were one of the best there. so i like to use the word tests. i don't know if you noticed that. >> what year did you retire? >> i retired from madison wisconsin of may 1949. before i retired i had a family

to support so before that i started looking for a job. i interviewed with united airlines. they didn't want me. because of my color. they didn't want any passengers getting on the airplane and seeing a dark face in the cockpit. madison wisconsin was the home office of oscar meyer so i interviewed with oscar meyer, got a job as a salesman. i was supposed to be at the plant learning the operation from slaughter to the finished product. i was there one month and they needed a salesman in northern new jersey so i went there for three years. i went to detroit as a systems sales manager, a district manager rather and was there for 18 months. then philadelphia, assisted

sales manager and i was there for three years. then i got a promotion to denver as a center manager. i was a senate manager from 73 until february 1980. i retired in february 1980. >> if i may, do we have any questions? yes ma'am. give me just a second. >> you will have to relay. >> don't you love the detail? >> good morning gentlemen. i'm from texas a&m university. what was it like coming back to areas where there was still segregation? >> what was it like in areas where there was segregation? what was it like to live?

>> what was it like to live what was it like to live in an area where there was segregation when you came back home from where you were stationed? >> it didn't bother me at all. they had their problem. i ignored their problem. but i didn't let it bother me. maybe that's wrong. nothing in life bothers me. i just can't with the flow. >> let's get to our final panelist, the closer for this day. col. harry stewart from virginia. it makes me think that either he was going to pilot a ship or fly a plane and he chose to fly a plane. >> i see you looking at your watch and i wanted to find out how much time do i have.

>> whatever you'd like sir. >> will thank you. i won't take more than a half hour all right? [ laughter ] anyway, i'm going to preempt other questions that may be asked of me. maybe two questions. the question would have to do with what were the greatest things that happened while in the service there? i would see the second greatest thing was 75 years ago plus or minus a few months i met these guys here and it was quite eventful. it has been a lasting love affair for the past 75 years. the combat pilots there are 13 of us left and we still try to keep in contact with one another but right on the stage you see here the remainder of the portion of that 13. getting back to the question, what were the greatest things that happened in the service?

that was one of them. that was the second greatest thing. i would like to say that these gentlemen, col. friend who was the first panelist, he was born in columbia south carolina but raised in manhattan. he introduced me as being born in newport virginia and i was raised in queens in new york there. so we were a distance apart over the east river here but i didn't know him before i went into the service. he was the operations officer in the first fighter squadron. when i went over there he had already gotten about 100 missions under his belt. he was serving his second tour. but anyway, the war ended in may 1945 and all of us got on the boat together and we landed

in staten island and col. friend over there went home with his family in manhattan and i took the subway and went home to my family in queens. i guess i was home for about two days and got a call from col. friend and he said harry, i'd like you to come on over and meet my family in manhattan here. so i went over and met his family. little did i know that this would end up with a 68 year marriage to his sister. [ laughter ] [ applause ] i called him cupid because he did the same thing with another one of his sisters. one of the tuskegee airmen went home and introduced them and they were married.

so the question that i got from somebody when i mentioned this before was how many times did cupid do this again? and cupid answered none. and this is why. i ran out of sisters. >> but that was the greatest thing that happened to me while i was in the service. >> there's one other thing. >> you shot down three airplanes in one mission. you didn't mention that. three airplanes one mission. >> it's up there. [ laughter ] >> we had a question. >> let's start, to the gentleman in black all the way up in the direction. here is one of two questions. there's a microphone coming toward you sir. >> my name is ray simon, i'm an

artist and one of the questions i wanted to ask you for all of you guys, have you ever looked at yourself as a civil rights movement yet to come? in all reality as history preceded you guys were the trailblazers. he almost laid the path for rosa parks and dr. martin luther king jr. what i find interesting is the march 24, 1945 mission was 20 years and one day which was 1965. march 25 is when dr. martin luther king walked across the bridge to vote. have you ever looked at yourself, all of you, as a civil rights movement yet to come? you didn't protest, you didn't march. what you guys did was come some of the best pilots in the country. >> i've been asked that question a number of times.

while we were going through training, and i think the other panelists will attest to this, i don't think we dreamed that we were making an impact on the future of what was happening as far as racial integration was concerned and that type of thing. we thought we were doing our job as citizens of the united states and performing in the military as soldiers. it wasn't until the late 1970s and even more recently to films came out. one was called the tuskegee airmen which had worldwide distribution. that was put out by hbo and the second was the red tails which was a lucasfilm put out by george lucas. anyway, they've had worldwide

distribution and around that time is all sorts of inquiries that started to come in as far as, we would like to hear from you guys and what you did, and give us a rundown on the history of the organization. to answer the question again, no i don't think we realized how much impact we were going to make on the integration when we were in the service. this became readily apparent after we came out of the service and got more notoriety. >> someone had to do it, right? >> i was satisfying something inside of me. i wanted to fly. i flew, cut all kinds of , so let's face it. that's what was going on as a black person in this country. i came out after the war, put all of my stuff together, retail captured and red tail freed. i wrote this book and it was

highly accepted. there was something on the inside of me that made me learn to fly. teaching school, i felt that somewhere young black men needed to learn how to fight the system. the system is vicious. unless you know how to cope with the vicious system, you've got nothing. and when i taught school, there are things called safety patrols. remember? where a little kid had a white belt and had a responsibility of covering that corner. well, in order to be a safety

you had to be a nerd. that's number one. until a black teenager, a black kid telling him at that time to be a nerd was a no-no. you had to be on time. col. davis demanded us to be on time. col. davis said be in my office at oh 900. you don't show up at 9 o'clock. what time do you show up? >> 845. >> your dang right. >> as a safety patrol you had to be on that corner at least 10 minutes ahead of time. all of a sudden you're teaching a 12-year-old to be on time. when

you come in the school building you take off your hat. teaching young men how to cope with the system. when the teachers come to the door and a 12 or 13-year-old opens the door, what do you teach him? manners. slowly but surely. these are the kinds of things in the back of my mind. learning how to fly, they said-- is that a joke? i can't tell. >> col. jefferson, you will address the panel after the presentation. >> we have something special coming so thank you for your time. to be earliest to be on time and to be on time is to be

late. >> it's very important to appreciate the fact that you don't have to be a pilot in order to be in the air force. the air force has an awfully wide range of activities for people to get involved in. you can do both. be readying yourself as a pilot, but at the same time, selecting it for your career, something else. for instance i was in tech intelligence and tech intelligence, i was responsible for those kinds of things to do lots and lots of schooling.

these 10 years of schooling, you'd be happy with that. that's real life and if you could get into fly, that's fine. i liked flying. we had a good time. but i also recognize that the air force needs people-- crew chiefs that we had, it has the same appreciation for dedication to a subject. he used to walk over to me and say where we going today? when i came back he said what

did you do? >>-- a lot of things. this young man down there, i watched him do it. i was right behind him. [ laughter ] >> please remain seated. >> thank you very much for really one of the highlights not only of our day, but i suspect the highlights of our lives in meeting, listening to not just american heroes. they are real heroes that have stood up, taking responsibility for themselves and others.

on behalf of a former air force guy who is not a pilot, i want to express my appreciation for your leadership, for the example that you accept briefly, and for your dedication. thank you very much. [ applause ] with that ladies and gentlemen, please be seated. i'd like to introduce again, mr. jim roberts, president and founder of the american veterans center for a special presentation.